@blackpantheris Conclusion is up! Should we open for votes and tag those who wanted to?
AmethystGravity's forum posts
Conclusion: Mission Complete
“Trained as a warrior and infused with Chozo blood, Samus Aran donned a Chozo-made Power Suit and cut a swath through the Space Pirates’ operation, destroying everything in her path, including the gargantuan mainstays of the Space Pirate army, Ridley and Kraid. She eventually made it to the core of their base, destroyed all the Metroids she saw, and seemingly blew up the Mother Brain.”From page 8 of the Metroid Prime Instruction Booklet
Following the advice of the Debating Tips, I've decided to make a brief summary of some of the points brought up throughout the debate.
Opener for Iron Man:
- Went through feats for the stats for Iron Man, including reference to mid-tiers, nuclear explosions, and mountains, as well as bullrushes, explosion reaction, and comparisons between suits.
- Claimed: "Even back in his classic days Tony had some absurd striking feats, his updated Armor was able to casually plow through his previous armors with his blows and crumple them with his casual grabs. (Iron Man #159 - When Strikes Diablo) Now what makes this impressive is the fact that even his Mark I armor could trade blows with Savage Hulk without sustaining heavy damage (Avengers: The Origin #4 - Rumble Fish) Now obviously Iron Man doesn't strike harder than the Hulk, but this should give you a good idea of how durable the armors that Iron Man was obliterating are."
- Claimed: "First, it is worth noting that Iron Man isn't exactly a speedster; he doesn't really run around willy-nilly dodging attacks at super-speed and blitzing his opponents down, but when he needs to use his speed, he certainly does." and "Tony rarely blitzes his opponents because that's not a key part of his power-set, but every time that his speed is tested he displays very solid feats."
- Brought up sonics as a potential hax.
Opener for Samus Aran:
- Went through feats for the stats of Samus, including mention of Ridley, Goyagma, Diggernaut's excavation to the center of planet Zebes for the Chozo colony, and matter-antimatter shots.
- Brought up the Screw Attack as being more potent for Samus's defense and offense, as well as comparisons between suits.
- Hax brought up included the piercing Plasma Beam, the Ice Beam, and the phasing Wave Beam.
- In terms of hypersonic+ speed, brought up explosion reactions, shooting down enemy ships while escaping into space on top of a spaceship, and scaling with the Queen Metroid and wounded Clone Ridley, while also bringing up mental hindrances with all of these.
- Brought up pre-cognition, reaction speed, and the Scan Visor as advantages.
Iron Man's Side First Counters:
- Made comparison with a sledgehammer to use against scaling with Ridley.
- Brought up Iron Man's piercing resistance against Terrax, Iron Man's ability to move despite multiple system failures against temperatures Iron Man described as absolute zero, and showed Iron Man shutting down Vision during Vision's attempt to attack his heart by phasing.
- Claimed: "So even though her wave pulse is many times more power than the eruption of Mount Saint Helens, that would put it at mountain-level+ levels of energy output, and it's her absolute strongest attack, meanwhile I've already shown that Iron Man has mountain range levels of durability, and those aren't even his best feats."
- Brought up Iron Man's repulsor blade.
- Claimed: "Fair enough, in terms of pure reaction Samus probably is slightly faster than Tony, but that doesn't matter much given he has equal, if not superior combat speed."
- Brought up energy absorption as a potential defensive hax.
- Did not address Scan Visor, Screw Attack, Samus's speed feat on the spaceship, matter-antimatter blasts, or the Diggernaut.
Samus Aran's Side First Counters:
- Brought up how the Wave Beam is not Samus's strongest attack (as it is inferior the the Charged Wave Beam, the addition of the Ice Beam, and her Screw attack) nor is being many times more powerful than the eruption of Mount Saint Helens only mountain-level+.
- Brought up how the SA-X can tank repeated charged Wave Beams and continue fighting.
- Made the point that a sledgehammer deals too little a percentage of damage to a mountain to make a meaningful comparison, unlike Ridley's blast.
- Pointed out double standards, such as Iron Man causing an avalanche with multiple blasts to mountain tops being considered mountain level but Ridley's one blast being considered far less.
- Explained properties of explosions with regards to the differences between size, energy released, and energy absorbed by a target.
- Brought up areas where values were being highballed and the proof did not match the claim, like avoiding a railgun shot underwater.
- Countered energy absorption by using the comparison of the Ice Beam enhancement on the energy absorption of Metroids.
- Mentioned counters to sonics, piercing damage, and other hax Iron Man might use.
- Used recoil and conservation of momentum to find a reasonable low end and high end for the mass of Samus's Annihilator Beam shots and Ice Beam shots.
Iron Man's Side Second Counters and Conclusion:
- Used verbal gymnastics to justify moving the helicarrier as a mountain-moving feat.
- Backtracked from admitting that the Wave Beam "is many times more power than the eruption of Mount Saint Helens" to saying "I doubt that Samus' wave beam is as powerful as the explosion of Mount Helen's (24 megatons) let alone 19 times more powerful."
- Despite claiming in his opener, "First of all in his Superior suit completely no-sold blasts from multiple other armors at once. (Superior Iron Man #9 - Chapter 9: Freedom)" and other instances of no-selling attacks, also claimed that there;s no way to tell if Samus no-selled Ridley's blast.
- Brought up the Ice Beam being colder than absolute zero as impossible (though I said it simulated a temperature below absolute zero), despite anything reaching absolute zero (including Iron Man's armor) also being physically impossible.
- Displayed a misunderstanding of how recoil was to find a low-end value for the matter-antimatter beam, by bringing up the Sunburst, which is not a weapon dependent on matter-antimatter annihilation.
- Brought up nanosecond and picosecond perception speed feats for Iron Man.
- Claimed that energy attacks and blunt force attacks are different, despite not applying this logic to Iron Man's defense against phasing energy attacks.
- Made claims that the arguments for Samus being dependent on outliers and fan-calculations, when the arguments for Iron Man included one-shotting an opponent who can tank Mjolnir-level strikes and a pixel-counting argument for the "Manhattan-sized" mountain that relied upon generous assumptions.
Why Samus Wins:
In terms of scaling with explosion speed and mountain-level suits inferior to, Samus can stack up to her competition. However, while Samus has defenses against Iron Man's hax, her beam has enhancements designed to shut down systems by freezing, phase through defenses, and shred through the interior, all at the same time, and she has an indefinite supply of said beam. Considering my opponent admitted that Iron Man doesn't typically abuse his speed, Samus is guaranteed to score hits with said beam shots. Her Screw Attack, in conjunction with the Space Jump, grants her even greater defenses and close-range offensive support, and the Scan Visor provides her with one of the most crucial advantages in a fight: information.
@blackpantherisb: Sure! You could combine your counters with a conclusion, and then I could post my conclusion, if that sounds alright!
People who put TAEP: @wesat
@blackpantherisb Post is finally up! Sorry it took so long.
Did you want to move to conclusion posts? I think I said all that I feel like typing, but if you have more to post than just a conclusion, we can work something out too!
Response Post One: Samus: Better Mettle than the Man in Metal
“It seems that the word Metroid in the Chozo language can be roughly translated as “ultimate warrior.” With the introduction of Metroid DNA to her system, the reborn Samus Aran is perhaps the most appropriate successor to this title of ultimate warrior.”Page 40 of the Metroid Fusion Instruction Booklet
You Said It Yourself:
I'm glad you agree that the Wave Beam is many times more powerful than the eruption of Mount Saint Helens, though for your calculation is just ever so slightly rounded down: the Wave Beam (referring to the beams acquired up to that point, which are also the Power, Charge, Wide, and Plasma Beams) is over 19 times more powerful than said blast, as 23,000 times 20 kilotons divided by 24 megatons in said eruption is (23*10^3 * 20 * 10^3)/(24*10^6) = 19.167. As for the rest, well, in my opinion, I agree with the quote from Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi: "You will find that it is you who are mistaken. About a great many things."
Okay, this is the first (and only) example of mountain-level damage output that you've shown for any of these characters. Though it's not multi-mountain/mountain range levels of power. That is about 19 times more powerful that the eruption of Mount Saint Helens, and the eruption of Mount Saint Helens, despite taking place literally inside of the mountain itself, only destroyed the mountain top. Here is a picture of Mount Saint Helens before and after the explosion. (Before and After) So even though her wave pulse is many times more power than the eruption of Mount Saint Helens, that would put it at mountain-level+ levels of energy output, and it's her absolute strongest attack,
For starters, National Geographic defines mountains as "a landform that rises at least 1,000 feet (300 meters) or more above its surrounding area." From the eruption, Mount Saint Helens lost a 396 meter tall cone portion of its mountain top: in other words, the amount destroyed in the eruption is equivalent to a mountain smaller than Mount Saint Helens, just flipped upside down. Mountain-busting, like Island busting, planet busting, and others varies based on size: there's a Mount Olympus-sized portion inside Mount Everest, just as there's a Mercury-sized portion inside Venus.
Thus, I've shown that the eruption indeed is mountain level, the same eruption you agree is 19 times weaker than that of the Wave Beam.
Also, it's not her strongest attack. For one matter, as I said in my opener,
The SA-X Suit, like the Ice Beam, was a surprise at the end of Metroid Fusion.Ice Beam
That's why the Ice Beam isn't included in the statement about the Wave Beam (and the preceding beams) or in the list of beams in the manual; the Ice Beam is acquired afterwards, increasing the power of the beam (and tinting it blue). The Metroid Fusion Nintendo Player's Guide says on page 103, "After the Metroid has made short work of the SA-X, you can collect the SA-X's parasite to fill your tanks and absorb the power of the Ice Beam," and in the caption, "Collect the SA-X's X-parasite for a full recharge and ready the Ice Beam to attack with newfound force."
For another matter, Samus can charge the beam (a process which takes less than a few seconds) and this provides a pretty substantial increase in firepower, seeing as how, also in my opener, I explained:
Page 141 of the Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion Two-in-One Guide states, "Missiles don't hurt the SA-X, so you must use charged-up Wave Beams."My Opener
More from Page 141 of that guide: "Establish a pattern of going up to the top shelf on the left and stopping on the right side. When the SA-X arrives, jump off the left side of the shelf and race to the far right corner of the room, charging your beam while running. Fire a charged beam at the SA-X as it runs toward Samus. When it gets close, repeat this process, jumping up to the top and waiting for the SA-X to follow. Keep this up until the SA-X morphs into a larger form..." Thus, it's clear that not only was Samus forced to use charged up Wave Beams to finish the SA-X, showing that even the regular, multi-mountain shots were ineffective (and the charged ones are far more powerful), but even then, the SA-X is capable of taking multiple, forcing Samus to "establish a pattern" and "keep this up." And as I said before:
Even without using the Screw Attack or Speed Booster, Samus's durability is above the SA-X's. As mentioned earlier, Samus's suits stack. Thus, when at the end of Metroid Fusion, she absorbs the SA-X, she acquires its suit and its Ice Beam, making her more durable than before and, because she has her own Varia and Gravity Suits from Metroid Fusion, she is much more durable than the SA-X. This is showcased in the final fight with the Omega Metroid. As the Prima Two-in-One Guide for Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion explains on page 142, "Suddenly, the blue X floats by and morphs into the SA-X. It steps in front of Samus and attacks the Omega Metroid. It fights valiantly, but another claw swipe turns the SA-X back into X. Jump up and grab the X to restore Samus's weapons and energy...as fast as you can while staying away from its claws. The Omega Metroid advances to the left each time Samus is hit, and it is easy to be trapped in the corner..." Thus, the difference is from the SA-X being one-shotted by the Omega Metroid (X parasite creatures turn back into their original X forms when their body is destroyed) to Samus with the SA-X's suit being able to take hits from the Omega Metroid.My Opener
Samus by the end of Metroid Fusion can take multiple hits ("each time Samus is hit") from the same Omega Metroid that one-shots the SA-X. By using the Wave Beam and the SA-X's durability alone, the SA-X's durability >>> then the regular multi-mountain Wave Beam shots, and Samus >>> SA-X in terms of durability.
As for the Varia Suit by itself, as mentioned in my opener:
The Prima Two-in-One Guide for Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion explains on page 110, "The SA-X catches up to Samus in the next room, so just keep running. You absorb a few hits, but you don't have the firepower to turn around and fight, so just keep going."My Opener
Samus acquired the Varia Suit on page 108 of the ("When the Core-X dissolves, a purple X cluster remains. Grab it to obtain the Varia Suit...") and she acquires the Gravity Suit on page 129 ("Jump up and grab the floating X to recover Samus's Gravity Suit effect.") Thus, Samus had only the basic Suit plus the Varia Suit when she has to "absorb a few hits. " Seeing as how the SA-X has Samus's strongest abilities, including the same beam enhancements plus the Ice Beam, it shows that the Varia Suit has to be able to tank damage far above mountain level.
Another matter about your claim that the Wave Beam is "her absolute strongest attack"
As I said in my opener:
When Samus has all of her items in Metroid Fusion other than the SA-X's suit/beam and the Screw Attack, the Metroid Fusion Nintendo Player's Guide says on page 98, "The right side of the vertical passage in the unmapped area is loaded with mindless and seemingly invincible creatures that float back and forth," showing that even the firepower that damages the SA-X can't damage these. After acquiring the Screw Attack, Samus can destroy them, as page 101 says, "Those mindless, floating fiends aren't invincible after all. You can blaze through a wave of them and through several wall sections as you Space-Jump with Screw Attack power."My Opener
Thus, the Screw Attack one-shots creatures that no-sell said Wave (plus Plasma/Wide/Charge/Power) Beam, including charged shots from said Beam.
This is the most impressive of the bunch that Samus battled, however he's still not in the mountain ranges of power. According to this converter 10 terawatts is only equal to about 8.6 megatons of TNT, which is mid-range nuke level, not nearly enough power to destroy a mountain.Your First Response Post
You didn't link the converter, though I am curious about how they're converting watts (a unit of the rate of energy per time) into megatons (a unit of energy). The point of bringing up Kanden's description:
There's Kanden, a hunter whose logbook entry states, "A disruptive electromagnetic field appears to surround the hunter KANDEN, analysis suggests voltage potential comparable to that found in lightning storms," and whose main weapon, the Volt Driver, is described in the logbook entry as, "The VOLT DRIVER draws energy from the planetary electromagnetic field and converts it into multi-terawatt bursts of HIGHVOLTAGE."My Opener
was to show his attacks were comparable to lightning strikes. As this article from Encyclopedia Britannica explains, "Peak temperatures in the channel are on the order of 30,000 °C (50,000 °F), about five times hotter than the surface of the Sun."
As for the number you cited being mid-range nuke level? Castle Bravo had a yield of 15 megatons and is the strongest nuclear device tested by the United States. As for not nearly enough power to destroy a mountain: as I just showed, 24 Megatons was enough to destroy a mountain-sized portion of Mount Saint Helen's, so being over a 1/3rd of that is still pretty close.
Tony's uni-beam, while only at 73% power was over 10,000 degrees Kelvin (so over 20,000 degree fairenheight). (Iron Man #8 - Execute Program, Part 2) so thousands of degrees is nothing to him.Your First Response Post
For one matter, your conversion is off: 10,073 degrees Kelvin (the number in the scan) is 17540.33 degrees Fahrenheit. For another: considering the same sources talk about the Judicator in terms of absolute zero, why would thousands of degrees refer to Fahrenheit? Besides, most Metroid sources use the metric system, like the stats for Samus's height and mass.
One again, your entire scaling chain is based off of the "mountain-level" durability of the Varia suit, unfortunately, once again this scaling falls flat since the Varia suit did not tank a mountain-busting blast from Ridley. The basic suggestion of the feat is: Ridley did some damage to a mountain and didn't do as much visible damage to Samus, so Samus' durability>=a mountain's. But this scaling really doesn't work, yes Ridley destroyed a (relatively small in comparison) portion of a mountain, and yes, Samus tanked a similar attack, but this does not mean that Samus could tank a mountain busting beam. Ridley's direct energy blast failed to destroy that mountain, despite him being (by your own admission) enraged. So Ridley's plasma breath is sub-mountain-level, that much is basically undisputable based on what you've shown. But the crux of your argument isn't that Ridley's plasma breath can destroy a mountain, the crux is that Samus took less damage from that blast than the mountain did, and thus is more durable, but this doesn't hold up under scrutiny. See durability can't be scaled like that from a mountain to a person since what's impressive about destroying a mountain is the sheer volume of rock that was obliterated by the attack, which differs from doing damage to a character. See, most fictional characters can endure attacks that would destroy some portion of a mountain, but that doesn't mean that all fictional characters are mountain level.
Now this might sound confusing on the surface. Let me apply your logic to a different scenario. Any man armed with a sledgehammer could destroy a portion of a mountain with a swing or two (just a very tiny portion), yet someone like Luke Cage or Captain America could completely no-sell that same sledge hammer swing. Now if I applied your logic that would mean that Luke Cage and Captain America have mountain-level durability, which makes little to no sense. Now this is of course a more extreme example than the Ridley-Samus one that you provided, but it displays a clear problem with your logic here. Tanking an attack that damaged to a mountain does not equate to mountain level durability, plain and simple. Maybe you could say that Samus' Varia suit has small city-level durability based on that feat, but it isn't a showing of mountain-level endurance. So at absolute best your scaling chain could put Samus at mountain level durability with her metroid fusion suit,Your First Response Post
Let's see just how erroneous your comparison with...a sledgehammer, of all things, is. Let's be extremely generous about the energy in a sledgehammer speed by using the fastest baseball hit speed recorded, 199.4 km/h (55.39 m/s) and use the high end of the mass of a sledgehammer, 9 kg. Using the basic kinetic energy equation, 1/2 * m * v^2, we get an energy output of 13,806.23445 joules. Now, let's see the energy output of the Mount Saint Helens eruption again: 24 megatons. That's 1.004 * 10^17 joules, which is 7.27 trillion times larger than the energy in that high-end hammer swing.
To put that in perspective, our galaxy is estimated to have 100-400 billion stars. Yet even 400 billion is over 18 times less than that multiplier. A person swinging at the high-balled speed every second, nonstop, 365 (or 366) days per year, 24/7, would take 230,596 years to equal the energy of that eruption.
In other words, your comparison is ridiculous because the percentage of damage the sledgehammer does to a mountain is so negligible, it's ridiculously difficult to measure. That's why Superman no-selling a bullet can't be compared to Thanos no-selling a bullet, which can't be compared to the Living Tribunal no-selling a bullet. While the fraction of energy the bullet deals compared to their total durability is vastly durable, regardless of which one it is, it's also too small to measure how much damage any of them take from that.
Let's use mathematics. Let M be the energy to destroy a mountain and D be a character's durability. If they take an attack with M amount of energy and survive, clearly D > M. If they take an attack with M/2 energy, and sustain less than half the damage to put them down, we get D/2 > M/2, which means D > M (just multiply both sides of the inequality by 2). This works for basically any positive real number N in the denominator, since multiplying by N is the same as just replicating that attack N times.
With the Ridley and mountain-side example, we get some sort of fraction that's the amount to damage the surface of the mountain. Samus does better off than the mountain, as she sustains no visible damage, while the mountain does worse, taking visible damage. Her D/N is greater than M/N, so the Varia Suit's D > M.
Contrast that with the sledge hammer example. M/N is literally so small, we can't register D/N. Did the character flinch? Did they blink? Did it give them an itch? There's no way to measure how much damage was dealt, so we can't see if M/N > D/N, or if M/N < D/N.
Thus, your comparison is completely off the mark...though this is all pretty extraneous, considering I've already shown the Varia Suit is multi-mountain in durability with the comparison to the Mount Saint Helens eruption and the Wave Beam.
And this is far from Tony's only showing of mountain-level durability. In his Neo Classic armor he endured being body slammed by an animated mountain. (Iron Man #273 - The Dragon Seed Saga (Part II of IV) - Here There Be Dragons) And Iron Man's modern armors also have fantastic blunt force durability.Your Opener
This feat is decently impressive, and Goyagma is very strong, but not mountain level in terms of strength by any means. Yes the Goyagma was strong enough to support/displace much, if not all the magma in a mountain, but the amount of lava inside of a volcano isn't even close to as large as the volcano itself. Just take a look at this image: (eschooltoday.com) The mountain itself is dozens of times larger than the volume of magma inside of the mountain, and since, as you pointed out, magma is around the same density of granite and other mountainous rocks, supporting that amount of magma is dozens of times lighter than the actual mountain that it was surrounded by, so saying that Samus can tank mountain level strikes by scaling off of Goyagma is obviously fallacious. I underlined and bolded that part because I think it's critical for the voters to understand that Samus' Varia suit did not tank mountain level strikes from Goyagma since all of your scaling relies on this fact. Your scaling goes like this mountain level=Varia suit<Gravity suit<SA-X<End of Metroid fusion suit, which would obviously lead to the conclusion that Samus has multi-mountain level physical durability, but in reality, the hits that Samus tanked from Goyagma where nowhere near mountain level as I have proven, which pretty much demolishes the base of your scaling chain, leaving the rest of it to collapse.Your First Response Post
First of all, I never said "Samus can tank mountain level strikes by scaling off of Goyagma." Rather, the fact that Samus's Varia Suit is completely unharmed by said attempt at crushing more than outweighs the difference between Goyagma's strength and the whole mountain, like in my explanation of Ridley and the mountain-side above. On the flip side, while you point out that the amount of lava Goyagma supported is a fraction of the volcano, your scan of Iron Man being slammed by an animated mountain that you claim is "mountain level" mentions "The fallen boulders are large enough that there is space between them." Clearly, the whole weight of the mountain isn't on Iron Man: if it were, the portion of ground directly beneath his feat/legs would have to also support that weight and would instantly collapse. Rather, the weight of the mountain is spread out all over the structure beneath the rubble, so you claiming that such a feat is "mountain level" is a double-standard. That's also not even including how a machine that can "punch through mountains" you mentioned elsewhere would be tunneling through the mountain, and yet somehow being able to tunnel through a mountain is mountain-level, but carrying the magma chamber isn't?
I've already displayed the Iron Man's earlier armors have mountain level energy projection capabilities, and this is perfectly consistent with his Classic armors. When Rhodey was allowed to use Stark's suit he used the repulsors and uni-beam to "blast mountains to itty bits" (Iron Man #188 - And Grimm Shall Be Their Name!) and when facing Fing Fang Foom he shattered the tops a multiple mountains in seconds, causing a massive avalanche that complete buries the gigantic dragon. (Iron Man #271 - Dragon Flame) So mountain level damage output is nothing to Tony even back in his classic days.Your Opener
First up I'd like to showcase Iron Man's missiles, which are pretty obscenely powerful. With a singular missile Tony has exploded an entire massive cliff-side with a single shot from one of his missiles, so they certainly pack a punch. (Iron Man: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. Annual) And the best part? Iron Man can spam these bad boys like there's no tomorrow from pretty much any part of his body, not to mention the fact that they can lock onto targets. (Avengers #27 - Only Dirt... Six Feet Deep)Your Opener
You bring up scans of Iron Man and his suits destroying mountain sides and mountain tops with multiple hits to claim that he has mountain-level energy projection, and destroying cliff-sides is "obscenely powerful," yet in your first response post, you say this:
One again, your entire scaling chain is based off of the "mountain-level" durability of the Varia suit, unfortunately, once again this scaling falls flat since the Varia suit did not tank a mountain-busting blast from Ridley. The basic suggestion of the feat is: Ridley did some damage to a mountain and didn't do as much visible damage to Samus, so Samus' durability>=a mountain's. But this scaling really doesn't work, yes Ridley destroyed a (relatively small in comparison) portion of a mountain, and yes, Samus tanked a similar attack, but this does not mean that Samus could tank a mountain busting beam. Ridley's direct energy blast failed to destroy that mountain, despite him being (by your own admission) enraged. So Ridley's plasma breath is sub-mountain-level, that much is basically undisputable based on what you've shown.Your First Response Post
This is the scan again. The amount Ridley destroyed in one blast is greater than the damage shown here, comparable to that here, and considering the relative sze of the people in this scan, Ridley's blast absolutely dwarfed Grey Voice, a human-sized being, so that one is also inferior to Ridley's blast. Yet, somehow your scans show mountain level damage output, but Ridley destroyed a "relatively small in comparison" portion, and is "undisputably" "sub-mountain level"?
Been There, Done That:
Even back in his classic days Tony had some absurd striking feats, his updated Armor was able to casually plow through his previous armors with his blows and crumple them with his casual grabs. (Iron Man #159 - When Strikes Diablo) Now what makes this impressive is the fact that even his Mark I armor could trade blows with Savage Hulk without sustaining heavy damage (Avengers: The Origin #4 - Rumble Fish) Now obviously Iron Man doesn't strike harder than the Hulk, but this should give you a good idea of how durable the armors that Iron Man was obliterating are. And Tony consistently dishes out enough force with his blows to put other high-level Mid-Tiers on their asses. In his Extremis armor he could one-shot an enraged She-Hulk (Avengers #501 - Chaos (Part 2) And keep in mind that She-Hulk was operating well above her regular levels because of her intense rage amp, only a page before she was literally ripping Vision apart with her bare hands.Your Opener
He could take a couple of hits from Taurus before going down, and in that very same fight Taurus could K.O. Thor with only three blows. (Avengers Assemble #1 - Assembling & Avengers Assemble #2 - Hulk Smash) Now Iron Man clearly isn't as durable as Thor, but the fact that he can tank hits from beings who are above Thor's weight class should indicate that Iron Man won't be easy to put down by any means, so unless Samus has some insane levels of physicality that I'm unaware of, I think that Tony should be able to tank pretty much any and all of her physical blows.Your Opener
In terms of vague scaling with high tiers, Samus has feats too.
With the Varia, Dark, and Light Suits (the latter two are only used for defending against the toxic extra-dimensional substances of Dark Aether and for being able to use Aether's light-based teleportation grid, and do not provide shield strength increases), Samus fought and killed the Emperor Ing, who wielded Dark Aether's portion of the Light of Aether. This source of energy is so powerful, when Samus used the Energy Transfer Module to store it for transport to Aether, the entire planetary dimension of Dark Aether began to collapse.
In just the Varia Suit, she fought Gorea, a creature who soloed a galaxy-spanning civilization. Yet Samus killed Gorea, with the resulting release of psionic energy being enough to engulf the region of space connecting the normal universe with the Infinity Void, with said region being comparable to the size of planet Alinos. (Another look at their compared sizes). (Here's the non-canon ending, where Samus defeats Gorea but doesn't fulfill the Alimbic Prophesy).
Do I think Samus is planetary? No. Just like you, though, I can bring up her doing well against opponents of incredible power while wielding equipment vastly inferior to what she brings to this fight.
even in his weaker Classic armors Tony could completely and utterly no-sell an atomic pile-driver that was meant to "punch through mountains". (Iron Man #95 - Ultimo!)Your Opener
the Classic armor hit Ultimo with a blast more powerful than the aforementioned atomic pile-driver (Iron Man #95 - Ultimo!)Your Opener
The ability to "punch through mountains" (which doesn't even require destroying the whole mountain, like how modern real-world technology can tunnel through mountains) pales in comparison to what the Diggernaut can do, as mentioned in my opener:
Samus was able to face the Diggernaut and win with the Varia and Gravity Suits, when the Diggernaut was used by the Chozo to dig out their colony to the center of planet SR388.
Just to start off Iron Man could suit up and fly dozens of feet out of his building before a missile which had already entered the room, could even travel a couple of feet and explode. (Invincible Iron Man #501 - Fix Me) And keep in mind that large missiles like this travel at supersonic speeds, and given that Iron Man could outpace this missile several times over, this feat should rank in the solidly hypersonic range.Your Opener
The scan doesn't really show the missile had to travel "a couple of feet" only, or that Iron Man had flown out entirely before the missile exploded. Also, considering the plethora of subsonic missiles that exist, I don't see where you're getting that missile has to be supersonic.
Regardless, Samus has dodged out a volley of missiles, and I've already shown in my opener her exceeding hypersonic speed while massively hindered.
And Tony does actually abuse his supersonic+ speed in combat on a somewhat consistent basis, for example, he blitzed Gravitron at Mach three. (Iron Man #8 - Execute Program, Part 2) So I've now established Tony has comfortably supersonic combat speed, but he can take it up a notch from there. In one recent instance Tony reacted to and caught a missile that was travelling at twice the speed of a rifle bullet (the average rifle bullet moves at about Mach 2.9), a solid display for hypersonic reaction/combat speed. (Iron Man: Hypervelocity #2)Your Opener
A bullrush isn't combat speed, it's travel speed, and I've already shown Samus has supersonic travel speed:
In terms of long-distance travel speed, the Speed Booster lets Samus run above mach 1 speeds, as the Metroid Fusion Instruction Booklet states on page 30My Opener
Dash at supersonic speeds and crash through certain barriers and enemies."
Similarly, catching up to the missile is travel speed, and in terms of the reaction part, as I've shown earlier:
She's managed to shoot down enemy fightercraft with the Power Beam while escaping into space in Chapter 12 of Volume 2 of the Manga, despite having earlier that day suffered an incident from her PTSD, including vivid images of her parents' deaths at the hands of Ridley.My Opener
Considering modern Space Shuttles reach speeds "nine times faster than a rifle bullet" according to NASA, Samus has a much better combat and reaction speed feat than catching up to that missile.
And Iron Man has even fought and reacted in the millisecond range while fighting Crimson Dynamo. (Iron Man #7 - Execute Program, Part 1)Your Opener
That doesn't even begin to compare with Samus's perception speed, as I highlighted in my opener. As for his armor adjustments at that speed, Samus switched on her Ice Beam while the world seemed to stand still, so she can more than match that.
As for the one combat speed involved, the punch at 3500 feet per second, that's a little over mach 3, which is supersonic. Hardly beyond Samus's own speed feats.
With a bullrush Iron Man could shatter an island compound, splitting the whole thing in half. (Iron Man #127 - ...A Man's Home Is His Battlefield!)Your Opener
Unlike mountains or planets, islands don't exactly have much of a well-defined minimum standard for size, and the image doesn't show much of the size. As for smashing up the ground:
In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Samus with the Varia Suit and the PED Suit (the PED Suit lets Samus harness the substance Phazon in a risky temporary state called hypermode for a maximum of twenty-five seconds each, but does not increase the Varia Suit's base defensive shielding when hypermode is not active) faced off against Mogenar, a Mogenar-class war golem enhanced by the Last Lord of Science's magic and a Leviathan's Phazon. Regular Mogenar-class golems, without magic nor Phazon, were described in the Bryyo Data entry Downfall (stored by Samus's scan visor in the logbook) as, "See the giant stone Mogenars do battle, destroying the land with their titanic blows."My Opener
Of course, there's also the Diggernaut excavating to the center of SR388. Speaking of which:
Just to cement Iron Mans earlier suits' blasting power as well above mountain level, I'll throw in these feats from the Neo classic armor, which are well above mountain level. Firstly Iron Man digs a trench that is far larger than the mountain-sized dragon Fing Fang Foom, and Tony actually states that it's about half the size of the Grand Canyon. (Iron Man #271 - Dragon Flame) And the Grand Canyon is obviously massively larger than mountains (likely in a mountain range level in terms of size) I mean just look at it. (The Grand Canyon) And just in case you don't think this is consistent for Neo-Classic Iron Man, he destroyed enough rock to fill the grand canyon in that very same time period. (Avengers West Coast Annual #6 - The Subterrean Wars (Part 5)) So even back in the Neo-Classic days Iron Man had multi-mountain level output. Now lets see the feats of some characters you scaled off of.Your First Response Post
A: I would love to know why Iron Man and Wanda are accurate sources for the size of the grand canyon, in that they know that off the top of their head.
B: The Diggernaut's feat makes this look lilliputian in comparison.
C: For the first feat, Iron Man dug out that trench with a continuous blast. The Metroid Fusion Nintendo Player's Guide explains on page 9, ""Unlike Beam power, your missile supply is limited. Collect and conserve Missiles if you're running low." Moreover, page 16 of the Metroid Prime 2 Echoes Instruction Booklet explains, "New to Samus is an ammunition system: for the Dark, Light, and Annihilator Beams, she will have to collect light and dark ammo to replenish her supplies," and "The Power Beam can open Blue Hatches and has infinite ammo." Thus, aside from the beams in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, which rely on the special light/dark energies of Aether and Dark Aether, Samus has an unlimited supply of her beam shots, so with a continuous stream of her multi-mountain attacks, she could more than replicate that level of energy output.
D: For the second, Iron Man blasted away enough debris to reveal the trapped Avengers, not the entire debris pile.
When Rhodey was wearing the Neo-Classic armor, he tanked a blast from Mandarin that shook the entire mountain range, sent him flying into a mountain hard enough to shatter it, with the impact being felt on a global scale, and then flying several more miles away. (Iron Man #275 - The Dragon Seed Saga (Part IV of IV) - Dragon Doom!) And in that same issue Tony tanked the full power of all of Mandarin's ten rings going off in his face in an explosion that shook the entire planet and dwarfed the mountain range that he was in. (Iron Man #275 - The Dragon Seed Saga (Part IV of IV) - Dragon Doom!)Your First Response Post
As this article explains, "Events with magnitudes of about 4.5 or greater--there are several thousand such shocks annually--are strong enough to be recorded by sensitive seismographs all over the world." What does an earthquake in the 4.5 levels look like? Wikipedia explains: "4.0–4.9...Noticeable shaking of indoor objects and rattling noises. Felt by most people in the affected area. Slightly felt outside. Generally causes zero to minimal damage. Moderate to significant damage very unlikely. Some objects may fall off shelves or be knocked over." This is at least the sort of environmental impact that Kraid had, just by standing up, as I mentioned in my opener:
Samus's basic Power Suit has decent durability feats, like how in Chapter 15 of Volume 2 of the Manga, Kraid stomps on Samus, only for her to get up after blowing him away, her Power Suit unscathed. Kraid just standing up causing his entire cavern to quake.My Opener
Also, Thardus, a sentient rock golem brought to life by the reality-warping properties of Phazon, is capable of causing seismic disturbances detected by Samus's ship, despite him being located in the ice-covered Phendrana Drifts and the Ship being located in the tropical Tallon Overworld.
As for the size of the explosion, from a previous CaV:
For another, the size of the explosion does not equate to what is destroyed. For instance, the largest U.S. Hydrogen Bomb test on the nuclear testing site at Bikini Atoll completely dwarfed that segment of the island, yet while the radioactive fallout had devastating, far-reaching consequences, the amount of surface landmass permanently removed by the blast is 2 km across and 80 m deep.
The Castle Bravo explosion produced a fireball 4.5 miles across from the 15 megaton blast, which is around the size of the Island of Krakatoa before the volcanic eruption in 1883 that destroyed 2/3rds of the island in an approximately 200 megaton explosion. For another comparison, Mount Saint Helens was 9,677 feet tall (about 1.83 miles tall), much smaller than the fireball size of Castle Bravo. However, in the eruption that reduced its height to 8,365 feet (about 1.58 miles), it released 24 megatons of energy. Thus, an explosion being "Island sized" does not make it capable of destroying an island or mountain of equivalent size, or even of much smaller size.My First Response Post from CaV: Acnologia vs Samus and U-Mos
This explanation also covers this:
During his tenure as the director of S.H.I.E.L.D. the Golden Avenger, while wearing his Extremis armor, endured being hit with four nuclear bombs, and pretty much ignored the blast. (Iron Man #32 - With Iron Hands, Part 4 of 4) Keep in mind that Tony was daydreaming about women in fishnet stockings while these blasts were going off, so there's not even a question as to whether he no-sold them.Your Opener
It seems like Iron Man flew away some distance before the explosion, and not being concerned with the explosions is not decisive proof that his armor no-sold the blast. That's like saying if a superhero cracks a joke after getting hit, they didn't feel it, like here: this is even more pronounced when a character has an energy shield to take the damage, so they don't feel anything.
As for explosions in general, adapted from this CaV:
Also, something with far less durability than a city can survive a nuclear blast, due to the nature of explosions. Explosions don't focus the entirety of the energy on a small target, like how a bank vault can survive a nuclear blast without being anywhere close to city-level in durability, how planets could potentially survive a supernova, how people under cover 300 meters or less from ground zero of the nuclear device in Hiroshima survived, and why it's recommended to lay flat before an explosion and reduce the lateral profile: the less surface area, the less energy transferred to something or someone by an explosion (ie, the city/mountain/island has multiple orders of magnitude more surface area, then say, Iron Man, and thus absorbs multiple orders of magnitude more energy from the blast). It's like why hand injuries with firecrackers are much more severe when the fist is gripping the firecracker, as opposed to holding it in a flat palm (though looking up pictures of this is pretty gross).Adapted from My First Response Post from the CaV: Acnologia vs Samus and U-Mos
This difference is highlighted when the Galactic Federation was using explosives to breech the barrier wall of the Bottle Ship's entrance, but they didn't want to deal too much damage to the surrounding parts of the space station. They fail to make any damage, and as Anthony Higgs explained to Samus, they needed a way to focus damage on a single location: which she does, blowing apart the lock with her missile. Also, this example can't be used to low-ball Samus's missiles, since A: most of her weapons are literally designed to focus energy on a small target, as explained and B: building materials in Metroid can be unnaturally durable, like the glass pane withstanding a blow from the space giant, Phantoon (and the indoor volcano I showed earlier that Goyagma lives in is also inside the Bottle Ship, showing just how durable the Galactic Federation construction can be).
These explanations also apply to these feats:
With a single blast, Iron Man obliterated the leg of the Giant Hyrm and killed him. (Thor #81 - Ragnarok Part The Second) Now what makes this impressive is the fact that Hyrm, only an issue before, survived being at the epicenter of a multi-mountain level blast. (Thor #80 - Ragnarok Part The First)Your First Response Post
In a more recent comic he endured an explosion that would "turn the West Coast into a crater". (Iron Man: Fatal Frontier #1) Granted he absorbed some energy from the blast to power his shields, but there's no reason he can't do that to Samus' blasts as well. And just in case you think Iron Man tanking attacks of this magnitude isn't consistent, he did the same thing in his Neo Classic armor, except this time the blast destroyed the entire west coast. (The Infinity Gauntlet #2 - From Bad to Worse)Your First Response Post
As for energy absorption, I cover that below in the Countermeasures section.
Scaling Samus to high-level supersonic characters is decently impressive, but Iron Man scales above hypersonic characters. In his extremis armor he completely and utterly dominated Mallen in terms of speed, blitzing him willy nilly and moving faster than he could perceive on multiple occasions. (Iron Man #6 - Extremis, Part 6) Now this is notable since Mallen casually blitzed down the Pentagon armor only a couple issues earlier, moving too fast fro Tony to perceive, keep in mind that this is the same Pentagon armor that I displayed as having casually hypersonic+ speed. (Iron Man #3 - Extremis, Part 3) So essentially Iron Man can casually blitz characters who are high-level hypersonic.Your First Response Post
I address the Pentagon armor's feat below. Also, you seem to have misunderstood the Queen Metroid's speed:
She's also dodged a Queen Metroid's lunge from less than a few meters away (the Queen's lunge blitzed wounded Ridley from dozens of meters away, and wounded Ridley dodged a melee distance plasma-wave-ice beam from Samus, which makes Descbrachian wing flaps look in slow-motion, in the same way rifle bullets do). Thus, the Queen Metroid's lunge blitzes a supersonic character from over a dozen meters away, yet Samus can dodge it from a much closer distance. All this in spite of Samus having witnessed earlier that day the death of her mentor, Adam, and the apparent death of her friend, Anthony, which she even had flashbacks to in the midst of the battle.My Opener
When the Queen lunges, Wounded Ridley, whose already supersonic and has time to prepare, doesn't even have time to move a meter. (In case anyone's confused by the scene, it was from the Queen Metroid's perspective, just like this one). The room is over a dozen times longer (from the door the Queen entered through to where Ridley was) than Samus is tall, as shown in this scene, and Samus is, as mentioned before, 1.9 meters tall. Thus, the Queen blitzed Ridley's Clone from over a dozen meters, yet he wasn't able to move even a meter in response, meaning the Queen is at least twelve times faster. Definitely above just "high-level supersonic." On the other hand, Samus dodged the Queen starting a distance much closer, basically the same distance that Samus moved to evade, showing that Samus is at least as fast as the Queen. All this despite the mental hindrance she was facing, which directly impacts how well the suit functions.
This is one advantage that I'm confident that Iron Man holds over Samus. For starters even classic Iron Man had some seriously impressive raw strength. He could intercept a mountain-sized helicarrier and lift it with heavy effort. It's even noted that this required a force/determination that could move/conquer mountains. (Iron Man #119 - No S.H.I.E.L.D. To Protect Me!) Now keep in mind that this is one of Iron Man's earliest armors, and that his more recent armors have been shown to be vastly stronger than his previous ones. His Superior Armor overpowered the SKIN armor with an extended arm, displaying superior strength to its entire body more or less effortlessly. (Superior Iron Man #8 - Chapter 8: Stark Contrast) So clearly Iron Man has a pretty fantastic lifting strength that is mountain-level, if not above.Your Opener
The narration states "...enough determination to--if not move mountains--then, at least, to conquer them." That doesn't say that it was a force to move mountains, and considering the Helicarrier has hollow passages and is designed to fly, it should be considerably less dense than a mountain. The force to "conquer a mountain" is not quantifiable.
As for grabbing the older armor and moving it, I would imagine that grabbing by the head would get a significant advantage in leverage, and it doesn't equate to "displaying superior strength to its entire body." Also, moving an opponent some distance doesn't equate to a strength advantage, especially when grabbing by the head: by that logic, DCAU Wonder Woman is much stronger than DCAU Superman, and the animated New 52 Wonder Woman is stronger than the animated Darkseid. Before you point out that Wonder Woman's opponents recovered afterwards: sure, but the scan you posted didn't show enough time afterwards to say the other Iron Man suit wasn't capable of doing the same (though for some reason, it didn't bother moving its arms or do anything to resist, despite not being restrained).
Thus, for your claim:
These feats really aren't impressive when compared to someone with objectively mountain-level strength, at best they are in a large building range, which is really nothing compared to Iron Man. So while neither grapple particularly often, if they ever get into a physical contest, Tony will mop the floor with her. Now lets look at what Iron Man's strikes can do to Samus.Your First Response Post
Thus, not only is your "mountain conquering feat" not even the same as moving a mountain, physical strength is just another aspect of versatility. If they don't have superior damage output, physical strikes are just an inferior option to his repulsors, since they're only short range. Going for a grapple just means Samus can shoot him point-blank range, like she did to Goyagma, and she has the Screw Attack to coat her in destructive energy even more potent than that of her charged Wave-Plasma-Wide-Charge-Power Beam.
First of all in his Superior suit completely no-sold blasts from multiple other armors at once. (Superior Iron Man #9 - Chapter 9: Freedom)Your Opener
No-sold seems a bit of a stretch, considering portions of his back and shoulder armor seem to be displaced.
And speaking of the Bleeding Edge armor Tony, while using it, could blow clean through M.O.D.O.K.'s shields with it and one-shot him, (Captain America and Iron Man #635 - M.A.D.A.K. Attack!) despite M.O.D.O.K. specifically noting that his shields can withstand the force of a nuclear blast is a separate comic that was released at around the same time (Secret Avengers #12.1 - Fear Itself, Pt. 1: The Captain).Your Opener
M.O.D.O.K. doesn't finish his sentence, so far all we know, he could've been referring to a nuclear reactor, which you claimed earlier "don't have energy outputs even close to that of actual nuclear bombs." Besides, withstanding a nuclear blast still falls under my point earlier about explosions.
However, those aren't even Tony best striking feats, he has shown actual mountain level striking power on over one occasion. In on of his weakest armors to date (the Silver Centurion) Iron Man could destroy a large mountain with a single bullrush. (The Avengers Annual #16 - The Day Death Died) And keep in mind that Iron Man stated that this mountain was the size of Manhattan, which would actual make it 10.2 km in height, slightly taller than Mount Everest. (Mountain Size)Your First Response Post
For one matter, your scan doesn't show the whole mountain being destroyed, only Iron Man causing an explosion and presumably tunneling through it.
For another, that "Mountain Size" scan makes the very generous assumption that the long-side of Manhattan is equivalent to the visible width of the mountain, when the width is much smaller than the length. Thus, that picture comparison is high-balling the feat as large as possible...while also disregarding that Iron Man's subjective statement could be referring to an estimate of the overall mass, rather than one particular dimension of Manhattan (and the largest one, at that).
This is far from Iron Man's only display of mountain-level strength though, when fighting along side Thing against the Blood Brothers the shock-waves of their blows brought down an entire mountain. (Marvel Feature #12 - The Bite of the Blood Brothers) So Iron Man should have multi-mountain level strength even back in his classic days, and his more modern suits have been even stronger.
First of all, the background resembles a place like the Monument Valley, which has the stone structures that Wikipedia mentions are sandstone buttes, the highest of which is 300 meters in height...shorter than the crater put in Mount Saint Helens that the Varia Suit's durability dwarfs in comparison.
For another, claiming that the shock-waves brought down the mountain is true, but A: We only see a portion of the mountain fall. B: Thing, Iron Man, and the Blood Brothers are fighting on the ground, so the shockwaves are travelling directly into the earth/rocks, rather than it going through the air. C: It takes multiple hits, and the narration about the momentum swinging in the fight would seem to suggest the brawl was not a short one. D: It's a shared feat between four characters.
He was able to casually overpower an Hulkbuster-esque armor, lifting it up and shredding it to pieces casually. (Iron Man #12 - Execute Program, Part 6) Now what's notable about this is the fact that this armor, moments earlier was overpowering and no-selling the Thing, the same Thing who I just showed bringing down a mountain with the shock-waves of his punches. (Iron Man #12 - Execute Program, Part 6) And this isn't even Iron Man's best physical strength feat, in his Superior Armor he could shred through the Hulkbuster casually. (Superior Iron Man #9 - Chapter 9: Freedom) And this is the same Hulkbuster suit the tanked multiple blows from a pissed off Green Scar. (World War Hulk #1) Now Hulk trashed that suit, and I'm certainly not arguing that Superior Iron Man hits harder than WWH, because he doesn't, but this should clarify that as time has gone on Iron Man's strength has increased by a pretty sizable amount, and he has more than enough striking power to deal very real damage to Samus, who I'm not even convinced at this point can endure mountain level physical blows, even by the end of Metroid Fusion because of how badly off your scaling is.
If you're not arguing that Iron Man can hit harder than WWH, how is this quantifiable? More so, considering that as the builder of the suits, Iron Man should be aware of any structural vulnerabilities he can exploit?
So essentially Samus' ice attacks can reach temperatures that are very close to being absolute zero? Yeah, that will not be enough to freeze Iron Man. Tony has tanked a concentrated beam of absolute zero and could still move and perform actions in these levels of cold. (Iron Man #241 - China See!) So I doubt that Samus' freeze missiles will be much of an issue for Iron Man.
A: Iron Man was barely able to move under that assault.
B: Samus's suit isn't frozen by near-absolute zero attacks, either, yet the Ice Missiles (and by extension, the Ice Beam) freeze the SA-X.
C: The temperature drop from the Ice Beam makes the attack in the scan look minuscule. Dropping Iron Man's suit from human body temperature (37 degrees Celsius) to 0 Kelvin (-273.5 degrees Celsius) is a drop of 310.5 degrees Celsius, Even using the low end of magma temperatures, 700 degrees Celsius, the ability to bring that down to freezing (0 degrees Celsius) is a drop of 700 degrees Celsius.
D: Another way of looking at the Ice Beam's impact on Magdollites. For reference:
This power also translates to Samus's Ice Beam, as the Ice Missile enhancement was just a replacement for the Ice Beam (since Samus's Metroid DNA wouldn't cooperate with an Ice Beam addition), and is consistent with how page 73 notes, "The Magdollites are creatures of lava. They rise up like columns of fire, then shoot lava bombs. Fight fire with ice, freezing the Magdollite with the Ice Beam as the creature starts to emerge from the flame," and with how Samus can freeze Goyagma's arm with a charged Ice Beam shot for a time before it shatters the ice.My Opener
As this article explains, temperature is a measure of average kinetic energy of the atoms/molecules in the system and heat is transferred from the hotter to the colder. The mass of a Magdollite is far greater than that of Samus's beam. This is a Magdollite being frozen by the Galactic Federation's Ice Beam knockoff, a freeze gun. Clearly the Magdollite is far more massive than humans, including Samus, whose mass is 90 kg, which is just above the average mass for a man, 70 kg. As I showed earlier, magma has a similar density to granite. However, Samus's beam clearly has less mass than her, since otherwise she'd be flung backwards every time she fired in mid-air (which clearly doesn't happen) by the conservation of momentum's application in firing a projectile. Yet even if the average kinetic energy was 0 and we assumed the beam had the same number of atoms/molecules as the Magdollite, the average would only be half (same energy/twice the number of molecules), so from 973.15 degrees kelvin to 486.575 degrees kelvin, which is over 213 degrees Celsius (way above the boiling point, let alone freezing point, of water). Thus, Samus's Ice Beam simulates a temperature below absolute zero, even with generous assumptions (low-end of temperature of magma, even though Magdollites dwell in the core region of planet Zebes; high end of freezing point of ice, even though the golems would instantly start melting if that were the case; the number of molecules in the beam shot being equal to those in the Magdollite).
E: You also forgot this part of my opener, it seems:
The Suit upgrades stack upon each other, and in most of the entries in the series, the beam upgrades do too, as the Metroid Zero Mission Nintendo Player's Guide explains on page 5, "The beams are not mutually exclusive--there's no need to switch from one beam to the next. When you collect a new beam, it supplements the strength of all your other beam upgrades."My Opener
In other words, it's not just Iron Man's outside that needs to cope with freezing; it's his insides, too, courtesy of the combination of the Plasma and Wave piercing/phasing combo. For instance, here's the Plasma and Ice Beam effects shown by freezing and piercing a larva Metroid. And this article explains what happens to cells that freeze: "'When water in an animal's cells freezes, the ice crystals that form expand and physically rupture the cell, causing death,' explains David Denlinger, an entomologist at Ohio State University in Columbus." Thus, an internal freezing is basically instant death, or at least incapacitation.
Moving faster than explosions is a decently impressive feat, but it's one that Iron Man has replicated several times in recent years. He did so while rescuing children from an exploding building in his Pentagon armor. (Thor #80 - Ragnarok Part The First) And he could suit up at outpace an explosion after it was already going off around him in his Extremis armor. (Invincible Iron Man #3 - The Five Nightmares, Part 3: Pepper Potts at the End of the World) And given that explosions move at hypersonic speeds that puts both those feats in the hypersonic+ range.Your First Response Post
For the first scan, flying while an explosion is going off in the background is not proof that he's moving faster than the explosion: since it's just one panel, all we see is an explosion in the background and Iron Man in flight in the foreground.
The second is more impressive, but where did the explosion start? If the armor pieces that had to fly to him were closer than the explosion's start, that's not quite outpacing the explosion. As for the flying out: that's great, but at that part of the feat, it's just linear travel speed.
And having combat speed that vastly exceeds hypersonic is consistent for Iron Man based on quantifiable feats as well. In his extremis armor he blitzed down a large group of soldiers, tanks, and helicopters at Mach 8.7. (Iron Man #9 - Execute Program, Part 3) He also outpaced and caught a rail gun bullet, which can move at Mach 10, casually. (Iron Man: Hypervelocity #4) Granted it was noted that rail guns are slightly less effective underwater, but even if its speed was slightly reduced, it still would have been moving at well above hypersonic speeds.Your First Response Post
He was stated as travelling at mach 8.7 at the start of that first scan, which was just travel speed. Whether or not he was still moving at that speed while mowing through the army wasn't stated. As for the railgun, not only is mach 7 the listed low-end speed of such projectiles (meaning the railgun wouldn't necessarily even be at mach 10), but water slows bullets down by an exorbitant amount, to the point where they barely travel a few meters. Considering that fluid resistance has a quadratic relationship with velocity (i.e. doubling the velocity quadruples the resistance), the Railgun's speed should be massively reduced to what it would otherwise fire at.
Fair enough, in terms of pure reaction Samus probably is slightly faster than Tony, but that doesn't matter much given he has equal, if not superior combat speed. And Tony's reactions aren't half bad, he has displayed MHS reaction while reacting to lightning in one of his newer models. (Iron Man #23 - .NOW Rings of the Mandarin, Chapter I) So while Samus has an edge in reactionary speed, it is negated by Tony's superior combat speed and comparable reactions.Your First Response Post
Not only has Samus displayed at least comparable combat speed feats to Iron Man's, despite Samus being mentally hindered...but the descending stepped ladder of lightning travels at about 1/2,000 the speed of light, so that feat is not necessarily even comparable to Samus's reaction speed, not even accounting for her pre-cognition on top of that perception speed.
In addition, from this CaV:
Also, verification that said attacks are not only lightning, like actual, natural lightning, but are also the specific type of lightning that moves around mach 260 would be nice, since there's a multitude of artificial and actual lightning and lightning-like events that move far slower than that:
This tesla device sends bolts at less than a meter per 10 milliseconds (ms), which is 100 m/, or about a third the speed of sound. The bolts do sometimes move quickly in staggered bursts, but the overall movement is what we're counting.
A plasma cutter sends ionized gas (plasma) out at 20,000 feet per second, which is around mach 17.7.
Thus, you haven't shown conclusive proof that Iron Man's perception/reaction speed is anywhere near Samus's.
The phasing/piercing functions of those weapons really won't affect Tony at all. He has already been shown to be immune to phasing when Vision tried to take him out by phasing through his chest. (All-New, All-Different Avengers #6)Credit
The very scan you posted shows Vision's hand phasing through Iron Man's armor; it's just that Iron Man was able to use that contact/proximity to reboot Vision's systems before Vision could do damage. Seeing as how Iron Man can't hack an energy shot (or Samus, more on that below), that particular example does not constitute proof that Iron Man can prevent phasing attacks from slipping right through his shields.
The next piece of gear that I'd like to touch on are Iron Man's sonics, which are very powerful. They nearly killed a weakened Juggernaut within seconds of activation. (Thunderbolts #150 - Old Scores) And while Juggernaut was weakened in this instance, he was still durable enough to tank lightning amped blows from Thor (Thunderbolts #150 - Old Scores) so his durability was still very impressive. And Samus will have a hard time avoiding these sonics, given that Iron Man can unleash them in an AoE fashion. (Iron Man #233 - Slaughterday!)Your Opener:
Bringing up the ability to take Thor's blows seems irrelevant, considering sonics are a hax form of attack.
Anyways, Samus is well-defended against sonics. She's fine with test-firing the Sonic Boom in an enclosed space. The Sonic Boom is described on page 7 of the Metroid Prime 2 Echoes Nintendo Player's Guide as "The most powerful Charge Beam Combo in the game, the Sonic Boom projects a wave of sonic force that can strike multiple targets almost instantly." This means the Sonic Boom is more powerful than the Sunburst, which page 71 of the same guide describes as "The Sunburst Charge Combo is an incredibly powerful weapon that could eliminate scores of people and even small towns if it were to fall into the wrong hands."
Another example of Samus's ability to ignore sonic-based offenses is with Ridley's Clone. The infant Ridley (aka little birdie) has a cry able to agitate the entire nest of Kihunter creatures. In his adolescent form, his cry was strong enough to drive the other creatures of the Bottle Ship into a frenzy (for reference, the Bottle Ship is much larger than a city, as shown here, and just one of the three environmental sectors contains the volcano and surrounding regions that Goyagma, mentioned in my opener, dwells in). However, even when the adult Clone roars directly in Samus's face, she's perfectly fine.
Firstly there's Tony's energy absorption tech. I've already displayed him using it to drain some of the heat energy from the west coast destroying bomb, but he also uses it in combat. He absorbed Thor's lighting (which is far more powerful that Samus' energy projection) and increased his own power by doing so. (The Avengers #220 - War Against The Gods!) And given that Samus' main form of damage output is energy that could pose a very real problem for her.Your First Response Post
For one matter, absorbing electricity should be far easier than absorbing other types of energy, seeing as how I'd imagine Iron Man's suit uses electrical power.
For another, doesn't Thor often hold back while fighting foes on Earth, so he doesn't kill most of his foes?
Regardless, Samus routinely fights foes capable of absorbing energy: Metroids. Adapted from this Tourney:
Metroids were created by the Chozo to be able to absorb energy, including life energy, to combat the X parasite, as shown in chapter 4 of Volume 1 of the Manga. Chapter 14 of Volume 2 of the Manga elaborates on this, as the Federation Officials note that Metroids absorb any form of energy. This energy absorption is both unconscious and at a cellular level upon contact, as shown in Metroid Fusion, when Samus (after being given Metroid DNA) absorbs the X-parasites' life energy inside her while in a coma.
As for how potent this energy drain ability is, not only are Metroids noted as being able to single-handedly destroy planetary civilizations with ease, they can absorb energy from Samus (before Samus was given Metroid DNA), like here, causing visible discomfort. Samus faced off against Gorea, a creature described throughout the Alimbic Lore, including its ability to drain both life energy and souls, as well as the measures the Alimbics took to contain Gorea in the following logbook entries:
Alimbic Pride 04
Those who survived appeared lifeless and hollow, as if their very spirits had been sucked dry.
Alimbic War 04
GOREA devoured our people's life energy and grew powerful from it. Death swept across our worlds, and we despaired.
Alimbic War 11
To contain GOREA, our people reduced themselves to pure telepathic energy through the process of ESSENCE TRANSFERENCE.
Seal Sphere 03
The ALIMBIC ORDER directed surviving citizens to transfer their essence into the SEAL SPHERE. Our combined psychic energy is the engine that powers the sphere.
Clearly, Gorea devoured the life energy of entire Alimbic worlds. For reference, a temporary scan in Fan Room Beta states, "TETRA GALAXY "THIS AREA WAS ONCE UNDER ALIMBIC CONTROL. RUINS DETECTED ON VARIOUS PLANETS INDICATE A VAST CIVILIZATION." and the Lore entry, Alimbic Datashade 01 states, "Datashades are packets of telepathic data scattered throughout the TETRA GALAXY. They can be accessed by most galactic-standard scan systems." Thus, Gorea ended up draining multiple world from a galaxy-spanning empire, and the rest of surviving Alimbic citizens turned into pure psychic essences to seal Gorea's power.
Despite all this, Gorea was freed again, attaching itself to the Seal Sphere and draining it of the life energies of Alimbic essences while also draining the bounty hunters. Yet the Metroid Prime Hunters Player's Guide on page 67 explains, "If you fight from closer range, watch out for the tentacles that now protrude from Gorea. The long orange tentacle will grab and throttle you, draining your energy the entire time you're in its grasp. The smaller ones will..." Clearly, Samus (also before acquiring Metroid DNA) is able to take Gorea's incredible draining abilities and keep fighting, with some struggle, similar to how larval Metroids perform against the bounty hunter.My Opener: Mid Tier Tourney Round 1: Shade545 vs AmethystGravity
This energy manipulation clearly extends to absorbing attacks: for instance, the Super Metroid Press kit mentions how Metroids absorb Samus's attacks. Similarly, the Metroid manual states that they can't be hurt without the Ice Beam, and page 74 of the Metroid Zero Mission Nintendo Player's Guide states, "Metroids are tough creatures. The only way to destroy one is to freeze it with your beam then hit it with five standard Missiles or one Super Missile. If it begins to thaw, freeze it again."
Thus, we see that the Ice Beam enhancement is able to bypass their energy absorption, which makes sense: cold is the absence of heat energy, after all. Thus, with the Ice Beam enhancement, Samus's beam is no longer stopped by the Metroids' energy absorption. In fact, that's partially why Samus was able to defeat the Omega Metroid after absorbing the SA-X, as mentioned earlier: the Ice Beam, in conjunction with the previously acquired Wave-Plasma-Wide-Charge Beam, was able to bypass the Omega Metroid's energy drain and tear it to pieces. Besides, considering you've already shown that Iron Man's systems were shutting down to extreme cold, the Ice Beam should be more than capable of shutting off the energy absorption.
Alternatively, Samus can just use missiles, though that really shouldn't be necessary.
Samus will also need impressive piercing durability, since Iron Man has an energy blade that can slice through MODOK's shielding. (Iron Man #45 - The Big Bang Theory, Conclusion) And I've already displayed that MODOK's shields can endure the power of nuclear bombs, so Samus will need impressive piercing resistance feats in order to stand up to these.Your First Response Post
Even disregarding that M.O.D.O.K. didn't state his shields can take nuclear bombs, as I showed earlier:
The Prima Two-in-One Guide for Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion explains on page 110, "The SA-X catches up to Samus in the next room, so just keep running. You absorb a few hits, but you don't have the firepower to turn around and fight, so just keep going."My Opener
Samus in just the Varia Suit is able to tank a few hits from the SA-X's beam, which includes the piercing Plasma Beam, the Wave Beam, and the rest of Samus's strongest equipment. Thus, she can take multiple hits from a piercing/phasing-freezing weapon, each of which is over 19 times stronger than the Mount Saint Helens eruption that blew out a 396 meter tall mountain-sized crater off of Mount Saint Helens, making the Varia Suit at least over 38 times more durable, taking the low end of "a few hits."
Considering the SA-X is only put down by charged blasts of said beam, and Samus after absorbing the SA-X is far more durable, this blade should be of little consequence.
As for hax of Iron Man that you haven't mentioned:
EMPs: Samus is fine with taking the EMP released from an Elite Pirate dying, despite it shorting out power in the room. She faces an electrokinetic in the form of Gandrayda with no issues, and her main enemies, the Space Pirates, have EMP grenades that shut down Galactic Federation power armor, yet Samus still solos their bases with ease.
Magnetism: Samus requires a special upgrade, the Spider Ball, to use magnetic tracks, showing that the Suit isn't made of ferrous material, which makes sense, given it's a construct summoned by willpower, not unlike the constructs of a Green Lantern. She also has the Gravity Suit, which prevents her from having her mobility impeded by lava (as shown in my opener), water, explosive decompression, and gravity wells strong enough to pull in her supersonic beam shots. Thus, she's not getting swept off her feet by his magnets. Similarly, telekinetics like the golem Thardus and Melissa Bergman (whose thawed herself from a Freeze Gun, which turns Magdollites into popsicles; smashed the reinforced glass in the Bottle Ship, which is built to house superhuman creatures and tanks hits from Phantoon) haven't ragdollled Samus in their fights, so Iron Man's magnets won't, either.
Nanosprite gas: Samus's suit is airtight and has its own oxygen supply.
Technopathy/Hacking: The Ing corrupted the machines of the Luminoth, yet Samus defeated their forces and killed the Emperor Ing. Dark Samus corrupted the organic supercomputers, the Aurora Units with her Phazon:
Dark Samus plans to gain control of the Aurora Units, the organic supercomputers that are the hub of the Galactic Federation network. They are loaded at important Federation bases and on important battleships. All Aurora Units are connected with each other in the broad network, making it possible to access an enormous database.
She attacks the Federation battleship Valhalla and grabs the Aurora Unit. She then installs the stolen Aurora Unit on Phaaze, causing it to be infected by Phazon. The infected Aurora unit allows Dark Samus to control Phaaze, giving her the ability to choose when and where to launch Leviathans.
First, Dark Samus sends a Leviathan to one of the Space Pirate homeworlds and places all Space Pirates completely under her control through the Phazon infection. Meanwhile, the Aurora Unit infected with Phazon sends the Phazon virus to the other Aurora Units in the Galactic Federation. …Metroid Prime Trilogy Artbooklet,
There are thousands of these units, all across the Milky Way to manage the operations of the Galactic Federation.
Dark Samus also took control of the sentient machines of Elysia, as described in the SkyTown Data (transcribed here):
SkyTown Data: Defeat
“Like the Aurora Unit, we too were infected with a Phazon-based virus. The spreading corruption consumed many of us, putting us under Space Pirate control. It was not long before only a handful of us remained.
During this time there was but a moment that we received aid. Ghor, the Hunter dispatched by the Federation, arrived there to restore the Aurora Unit. Our hope quickly vanished as he too was corrupted by Phazon and lost his own will.”
However, even when Samus was so warped by Phazon that her Ship couldn't recognize her, her Suit remained under control, to the point where Dark Samus completely failed to stop her from defeating Dark Samus, Aurora Unit 313, and planet Phaaze.
So yeah, hacking, like what Iron Man did to Vision, is going to nothing to Samus.
Expanding Upon Previous Points:
Some points you never fully addressed, or that I felt deserved more attention.
Similarly, in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, Samus with the Varia Suit and the Dark Suit (the latter of which only reduces damage from the Dark Aether toxins, and does not increase Samus's base defensive shielding) faces off against Quadraxis, whose logbook entry states, "The Quadraxis unit went rogue and entered the service of the Ing. Its primary weapon system fires destructive matter-antimatter blasts."My Opener
Now, at first glance, it might seem the matter-antimatter beam is unquantifiable. However, Samus acquires said matter-antimatter Beam from Quadraxis in the form of the Annihilator Beam. Considering recoil is directly proportional to the mass of the projectile, based off of the conservation of momentum, it's more than fair to assume that, given said recoil is greater than that of a 12 gauge shotgun's, we can use the mass of a shotgun round as a low-end. For a 12 gauge shotgun like the one in the video, Wikipedia explains "a typical 12 gauge shotgun slug is a blunt piece of metal that could be described as an 18 mm (.729 inch) caliber that weighs 28 grams (432 grains)." In matter-antimatter annihilation, the entire mass is converted into energy, according to e=mc^2, so using the proper units (kg for mass and m/s for speed of light), 0.028 * (299792458^2) = 2.5165145e+15 Joules, which is over 0.6 megatons. While this scaling of energy per shot isn't quite as good as the Wave Beam's, the fact that every single shot of the Annihilator Beam produces over 1/40th the energy in the Mount Saint Helens Eruption establishes consistency, especially seeing as how the Sonic Boom (mentioned earlier) is the Charge Combo of the Annihilator Beam, combining the 30 of the Light and Dark ammunition with the Charge Beam and five missiles, while the Annihilator Beam's regular shots require only one light ammo and one dark ammo. Yet page 20 of the Metroid Prime 2 Echoes Instruction Booklet notes that for the Samus in Metroid Prime 2, "Impediments made of Denzium can only be destroyed by Power Bombs." Thus, the Sonic Boom is at least 30/40ths of the energy in the Mount Saint Helens eruption, the Power Bomb is even stronger, and yet:
This level of durability is further corroborated by the official guides. The Prima Two-in-One Guide for Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion explains on page 110, "The SA-X catches up to Samus in the next room, so just keep running. You absorb a few hits, but you don't have the firepower to turn around and fight, so just keep going." Page 123 of the same guide adds, "When you reach the next room, leap over the roots and set off a Power Bomb. As you can see, the SA-X is right behind you." The Metroid Fusion Nintendo Player's Guide describes the same encounter on page 78, "Your first enemy encounter in the Sector 2 shortcut will be a terrifying SA-X battle...all you can do is freeze it with Ice Missiles and run away."My Opener
Thus, the SA-X no-sells that level of firepower, which is consistent with what I've established with the Wave Beam. Speaking of which, I feel like I need to reiterate just how much more durable the SA-X is from the Varia Suit, which you seem to be underselling.
The same level of damage Samus takes in the Varia Suit can also be dished out by her basic weaponry. Dark Samus 1's logbook entry notes, "She wears a version of the Varia Suit, altered and augmented by the Phazon within her," putting her at least on the same durability level as Varia Suit Samus. However, Samus still defeated her wielding the Power Beam, Charge Beam, and normal missiles, as page 27 of the Metroid Prime 2 Echoes Nintendo Player's Guide explains, "Dark Samus Battle - Phase 1...If you stand far away and fire missiles as fast as you can, many will breech the shield. It's a good way to damage your doppelganger early...Charge up your Power Beam and run to her side, then wait for her to stop glowing. The moment she does, hit her with the beam. Upon defeating Dark Samus, take an elevator to..." Thus, with the normal missiles, the Power Beam, and the Charge Beam, Samus is able to defeat Dark Samus 1, who is at least as durable as the Varia Suit.My Opener
Adding on to this, page 27 of the Metroid Prime 2 Echoes Nintendo Player's Guide states, "To get a new weapon, you must defeat a new enemy. Dark Samus may look like you, but she lacks your wit and charm--not to mention tact. It's a tough battle, but one that you should be able to handle with a couple of Energy Tanks and 20-25 Missiles." By comparison, Samus in Metroid Fusion has 250 Super Ice Diffusion Missiles (number in the top of the screen). As mentioned in my opener, the Super Missile enhancement is 3 times more powerful than regular missiles, and
Page 141 of the Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion Two-in-One Guide states, "Missiles don't hurt the SA-X, so you must use charged-up Wave Beams."My Opener
Dark Samus already wields an enhanced version of the Varia Suit, and the Diffusion and Ice enhancements further increase the missiles power, but even ignoring that, we have:
25 normal missiles, plus the Power Beam and Charge Beam, is capable of putting down Dark Samus. By contrast, the SA-X is absolutely unfazed by Samus's Super Ice Diffusion Missiles, despite each being over three times more powerful than the normal ones and there being 10 times as many. 10 * 3 = 30, so the SA-X is at least 30 times more durable than the Varia Suit (though that doesn't even account for how the normal missiles help put Dark Samus down, while Metroid Fusion Samus's missile arsenal doesn't do any damage to the SA-X.
Considering that just using the fact that the Varia Suit tanks a few shots from the SA-X's Beam, each shot of which is over 19 times more powerful than the mountain-busting blast of Mount Saint Helens, that means the Varia Suit is at least 39 times more durable than a mountain, making the SA-X suit at least 1170 times more durable. By itself, the SA-X suit is clearly mountain-range level in durability.
But it's not by itself. There's another huge jump in durability:
As the Prima Two-in-One Guide for Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion explains on page 142, "Suddenly, the blue X floats by and morphs into the SA-X. It steps in front of Samus and attacks the Omega Metroid. It fights valiantly, but another claw swipe turns the SA-X back into X. Jump up and grab the X to restore Samus's weapons and energy...as fast as you can while staying away from its claws. The Omega Metroid advances to the left each time Samus is hit, and it is easy to be trapped in the corner..." Thus, the difference is from the SA-X being one-shotted by the Omega Metroid (X parasite creatures turn back into their original X forms when their body is destroyed) to Samus with the SA-X's suit being able to take hits from the Omega Metroid.
By the end of Metroid Fusion, Samus can tank multiple SA-X one-shotting hits, making her at least twice as durable. Thus, she most certainly is mountain-range level in durability, no matter how you slice it.
As an additional advantage, Samus has the Scan Visor:
In the Metroid Prime series, the scan visor (Metroid Prime Instruction Booklet, page 18) allows Samus and the player to gain more information about creatures, objects, and lore. Here's an example of the Scan Visor being used on the alien psychic U-Mos, and an example of later scanning both the planetary energy and a record of Luminoth Lore.My Opener
The Scan Visor has produced informative logbook entries for Samus on the extradimensional energy manipulator Emperor Ing, the galaxy+ telepath and shapeshifter Gorea, the mutated and warped organic supercomputer Aurora Unit 313, the magical golem Mogenar, and a whole host of other creatures, many of which have never before seen in Samus's universe except by her. That means she gets crucial knowledge about Iron Man and his arsenal. Given her perception speed, it should be of no difficulty for her to read through all of that data, giving her a massive one-sided knowledge advantage. In the wordz of Sun Tzu,
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”Sun Tzu, Art of War
- Even the Varia Suit is well above mountain level (at least 38 times, to be precise) by tanking the SA-X's beam, which includes the Wave Beam. The SA-X suit is over 30 times more durable, can't be defeated by the uncharged Wave Beam shots, and tanks multiple charged shots from said beam. Samus by the end of Metroid Fusion is at least twice as durable, and her Ice Beam enhancement gives the beam "newfound power."
- The scaling with Ridley and Goyagma also point to the Varia Suit being at least mountain level, illogical comparisons to sledgehammers aside. However, they're not necessary to prove that the Varia Suit is mountain level, and your arguments against them reflect more than few double standards with the feats you presented as "mountain level."
- The comparison with the Annihilator Beam, Sonic Boom, and Power Bombs also highlight how mountain level durability is insignificant next the SA-X's durability.
- Many of the speed feats you presented were travel speed. This isn't a race, and if Iron Man tries bullrushes, Samus has her own at least comparable combat speed, massively superior reaction speed, and pre-cognition to deal with it.
- Physical strength is not a massive factor: it's just another way of dealing damage. You haven't displayed mountain-level lifting strength for Iron Man, and physical strikes are just inferior in range to projectiles. Samus can just user her beam at point-blank range and the Screw Attack if the fight gets in close quarters, with the Screw Attack being much more powerful than the Charged Wave Beam.
- Your feats with explosions disregard how the size of the explosion doesn't directly imply the damage output of them, and withstanding an explosion doesn't require one to tank all the energy in the blast, since it's dispersed over a wide area. On the other hand, Samus's weapons deal damage focused on a target.
- Your feats to show Iron Man resisting freezing and phasing show Iron Man having systems shutting down by a temperature drop inferior to that which the Ice Beam enhancement delivers, and Vision beginning to phase his hand through Iron Man. As Samus's Beams stack upon each other, Iron Man has to deal with both at the same time, with the Ice Beam also bypassing energy absorption.
- On the flip side, Iron Man's hax abilities are completely ineffectual. However, without something like the Scan Visor, Iron Man has no way of knowing this, meaning he would be wasting time with ineffective options.
In other words, Samus can more than cope with the damage output, durability, and speed displayed in this CaV for Iron Man. His hax trump cards are all useless. Meanwhile, the Scan Visor gives her a massive advantage, while her Beam lets her turn him into a popsicle, bursting cell membranes and shutting down his systems. As you said in your opener, "Iron Man isn't exactly a speedster; he doesn't really run around willy-nilly dodging attacks at super-speed and blitzing his opponents down," so Samus can get that beam shot in and make it count.
@blackpantherisb: I have a fair portion done, but I also have some projects to do for school; it should be up sometime this week
@blackpantherisb: Yeah, looks fine: I'm working on my response now!