Alak

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Alak

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I think I can take him based on age and physical advantages. I'd give the experience advantage to him for obvious reasons, and that he actually knows how to throw opponents (something I haven't had much practice doing). I'm stronger, more durable, and can punch/kick harder so I think that would give me the win.

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Alak

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@cloakx14 said:

@alak: Wally can do all that and more because of time travel.

Heh, because time travel always ends well...

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Alak

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Dick because:

  • Money wouldn't be an issue (pre-52)
  • Fun tech/vehicles
  • Women are constantly drawn to him
  • Insanely intelligent
  • Sweet day job (pre-52)
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Alak

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Speaking as someone who's addicted to the MK series, I'd say Batman clears without much difficulty if he's given standard equipment. H2H would've been a much more difficult tower to clear.

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Alak

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Alak

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#6  Edited By Alak

Well, this is an interesting thread and I suppose I could go ahead and toss in my opinion. I think the biggest thing that's causing a lot of confusion and disagreement is that nobody here seems to have come to a consensus on what it actually means to be an A-lister. The definition wasn't even established in the OP, and considering the fact that no such concrete definition exists, I completely understand why.

My Definition of an A-Lister

A superhero A-lister is someone who is instantly recognizable.

That's pretty much it. The idea that someone needs to have a toy line, solo-film, video game, etc. is unbelievably flawed especially when we're talking about DC characters. Go to the official Toys R Us website and sort the "superhero" category by "best selling".

http://www.toysrus.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=3123177

^ I'll save you the effort and give you a direct link. The only DC superhero to make it on the front page is Batman. If you look up solo-films, then you'll have more variety within the past decade. Yet, the only two characters who've left any noticeable impression on the general populace are Batman and Superman. If you look up video games, you'll have a slightly broader variety but the only character who actually had a lead role in a non-movie based game is Batman. Therefore, the marketing logic is inherently flawed because DC is a company that has flawed marketing. If money making is the driving force behind the title of "A-lister", then the only two A-listers from DC are Batman and Superman.

That is why my definition (which really mainly applies to DC characters) of an A-lister is simply recognition. Is Dick Grayson iconic enough to be recognized by the average non-reader?

Is Dick Grayson an A-Lister?

According to what I've written above, my answer is yes. I'll start my explanation with anecdotal evidence. About a year ago, I changed the wallpaper on my phone's lock screen to Nightwing. Of course, this means that whenever I'd get a notification, everyone around me can see my wallpaper. My boss (43 years old) recognized the character by the names Dick Grayson and Nightwing. One of my co-workers (35 years old) recognized him as "the kid who used to be Robin". It took a couple of seconds, but my girlfriend (20 years old) recognized him only by the name Nightwing. All of my other close friends ranging from the ages of 18-27 years old either knew him as Nightwing, old-Robin, or former-Robin. That's pretty impressive seeing as how none of them are comic book readers.

That segues into my piece of evidence: exposure. Nightwing never had a lot of solo-media aside from a few action figures, but he's had a lot more media exposure than most superheroes from either DC or Marvel. For people in my age group, we grew up with the Bruce Timm/Paul Dini cartoons in the 1990s and early 2000s. Dick Grayson was a prominent character as both Robin and Nightwing. He continues to play the sidekick role in the shows The Batman and Batman: The Brave and the Bold. Two television shows that he actually has lead roles in are Teen Titans (and subsequently TT: Go!) as well as Young Justice. If you want to take a look at DC animated films, he's had supporting roles as Nightwing in Batman: Under the Red Hood, Son of Batman, Batman Unlimited: Animal Instincts, and Batman vs. Robin. If you really want to go even further and look at his live-action appearances, Dick Grayson appears as Robin in both Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. He's most certainly the deuteragonist at the very least in the latter especially since he shares the headline with Batman. Dick's Nightwing persona makes significant appearances in the video games LEGO Batman franchise, DC Universe Online, Batman: Arkham franchise, Injustice: Gods Among Us, and Young Justice: Legacy.

I'll be the first to point out that Dick Grayson has only carried leading roles in 3 of the various medias that I've mentioned, and one of them almost exclusively kept to his Robin persona. He is most certainly a character restrained to the role of a supporting cast member. However, the sheer amount of public exposure he's gotten from this has turned him into an icon. I would absolutely argue that Dick Grayson is just as easily identifiable as the core Justice League roster. Funny enough, this is without a doubt credited to Batman. Since Batman has been the most popular DC superhero for decades, his number one sidekick has also been cemented as a DC icon.

Dick Grayson's Future Popularity

For those of you who haven't heard, TNT has purchased the pilot episode for the upcoming Titans show which has Nightwing as the front man. That will definitely help viewers accept him as an alpha-male as opposed to seeing him as Batman's former sidekick. I mean, shoot, most people still don't know that there were more Robins aside from Dick. Regardless, DC has been and is continuing to make a push to keep Nightwing in the media. No, he's not going to be part of the Justice League roster. No, he's not going to become more popular than Batman. No, people aren't going to forget that he's Batman's old sidekick and they shouldn't because that's integral to his character. It's highly unlikely that Nightwing will get his own solo-movie before DC makes a Titans movie first, and that won't happen until the core Justice League roster has its movies released. If you guys think that all of these are requirements to make him an A-lister, then you might as well accept the fact that this just isn't going to happen. To me, however, he's already popular enough and he's only going to get more popular in the next decade.

TL:DR- I think he's already an A-lister because he's iconic and his popularity will keep on growing.

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Alak

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Alak

1006

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#8  Edited By Alak

So Nightwing was revealed to be in the upcoming Arkham Knight game. What do you guys think of his new costume?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CINA288fZUs

Nightwing in Arkham Knight
Nightwing in Arkham Knight

Personally, it'll take some time to grow on me.

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Alak

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I finally got around to reading this, and I must say that it was a great reminder why I love this iteration of the Titans the most (even though Raven wasn't present). I actually liked how Dick and Kory were noticing that their differences were becoming more and more apparent. While they had pretty good chemistry for young love, I personally never thought they would've made it in the long run. This issue was a good example illustrating why.

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Alak

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While I'm not fond of Nightwing's look, I'm just happy that they chose to include him in the game!