DevilMayehm666

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DevilMayehm666

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#2  Edited By DevilMayehm666

Latent Mutants

Back in 2020, Marvel Studios released in-universe book called the Wakanda Files. It stated that HYDRA discovered that the people of Sokovia had "genetic abnormalities" that made them perfect test subjects for the mind stone.

"The latest clues are offered in Marvel's recently-published The Wakanda Files, which are presented as Shuri's notes on the world of the Avengers. Naturally, Shuri is absolutely fascinated by the Infinity Stones, and as such she's collected several files pertaining to Scarlet Witch, including some sourced from Hydra. According to these records, Hydra didn't just settle in Sokovia because they felt they could avoid the world's attention there; they had also observed a number of genetic anomalies among Sokovians, which they believed would make them perfect test-subjects for the Mind Stone experiments. This certainly supports the theoryScarlet Witch and Quicksilver's powersare actually genetic in nature, with the Mind Stone triggering something latent within them. In other words - they are indeed mutants."

This was also suggested in Avengers: Age of Ultron Prelude - This Sceptre'd Isle released in 2015.

No Caption Provided

Obviously, it was suggesting that the Maximoff twins were mutants that had their powers unlock by the stone. Elizabeth Olsen herself agreed with a description of Wanda that called her a “mutant" last year.

That suggests HYDRA knew about the X-gene and that an infinity stone can unlock superpowers. So they had to have made contact with mutants back in WW2 when they had the space stone.

The Ms. Marvel series confirmed this. It was revealed in the second episode that the bangle unlocked special powers within Kamala that were already there. Then the season finale revealed that her family didn't have any hidden powers, but was unique to her because she mutated and developed a special gene. Then the X-Men theme played suggesting that Kamala is a mutant and possibly Kamran as well.

So that likely means that the Maximoff Twins were born with the X-gene and that HYDRA knew about it. This is further suggested by the fact that Kamala and Kamran have been referred to as "enhanced" just like Wanda and Pietro were in Avengers: Age of Ultron. Pietro's mutation gave him super speed like Peter Maximoff from the X-Men series. While Wanda's mutation gives the ability to manipulate Chaos Magic like in the comics (before the retcons). Just like how Kamala's mutation gives her the ability to manipulate cosmic energy from the Noor dimension.

But these mutants needed to be exposed to cosmic energy/radiation to have their powers activated. Kamala can't use her mutant powers unless she is wearing the bangle and Agatha Harkness said that Wanda's powers would have "died on a vine" if she wasn't exposed to the mind stone and Wanda still has a piece of the mind stone within her.

This is a bit different from the mutants in X-Men cinematic universe whose powers are activated when they hit puberty. Loki and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness writer Michael Waldron confirmed was canon to the MCU multiverse. He stated that the Charles Xavier in Multiverse of Madness was a variant of the Professor X from the X-Men movies who exists in the multiverse.

Varity: Where did you draw from to build this version of Professor X? The Fox movies or the comics and the animated series from the 1990s?

Michael Waldron: A little bit of both. I don’t know if I’m technically supposed to get into specifics about these actors or characters, but I worked with that performer to even talk about making it different, so it was a different version of him. He uses a line from “Days of Future Past” that he says to Stephen. But also, we drew from the classic cartoon version of that character. He’s a variant who has qualities of a bunch of different versions of those guys from across the multiverse.

So why do 616 mutants need to take an extra step to have their powers activated? That brings me to my main point...

X-Men MCU Mister Sinister

Since the X-Men film series is part of the MCU multiverse that means the events of Logan are canon. It was set in the year 2029 and it is stated that no mutants have been born in 25 years. It's later revealed that a chemical agent was put into the world's food supply that suppressed the X-gene and prevented mutants from developing their powers naturally. It was basically a version of the "No More Mutants" spell from House of M.

The people responsible for this was a company called Alkali-Transigen, which was said to be owned by a larger company known as Essex Corporation. Essex Corps is a reference to Nathaniel Essex aka Mr. Sinister, who was originally going to appear in Logan.

He was meant to be an overarching villain for the X-Men series with Essex Corp being responsible for the Weapon X program in Deadpool and X-Men: Apocalypse and Essex House for Mutant Rehabilitation in Deadpool 2. Sinister also was going to be the puppet master of the Hellfire Club, who were originally going to be the villains for Dark Phoenix and the sequel to New Mutants. Actor Jon Hamm would have portrayed the character.

The ultimate goal of Essex was to control and exploit mutants. Believing that they were dangerous but also useful. So they made mutant powers inactive and kept a few active mutants as slaves. Weapon X would kidnap people like Wade Wilson (aka Deadpool), activate their mutant powers, and then enslave them. That or artificially give birth to mutants for them to exploit, like Laura (aka X-23) in Logan.

616 MCU Sinister

Mr. Sinister would be the perfect explanation as to why mutant powers do not activate naturally. Perhaps there is a version of him in the 616 and Essex Corp has been putting chemical agents in the world's food supply to suppress the X-gene just like in X-Men universe. Hence why mutant abilities tend to "die on a vine".

As I said earlier, it appears that HYDRA knew about the X-gene and knew that an infinity stone could unlock it. But how did they know this? HYDRA must have made contact with mutants when they had the space stone back in World War 2. Mr. Sinister could be the reason for that, it would make perfect sense for Marvel Studios to go in this direction.

Now why would that make perfect sense? Well, it is because HYDRA had ties to the Nazis and Sinister worked as a Nazi Scientist in the comics. He was looking for mutants in Auschwitz to experiment on them and learn how to catalyze the X-gene. Erik Lehnsherr aka Magneto met Sinister there and his origin in X-Men: First Class was based on this, except it was Sebastian Shaw that experimented on mutants.

So the MCU could adapt this. Making Mr. Sinister a Nazis/HYDRA scientist who worked with Arnim Zola and used a young Erik Lehnsherr as a test subject for their space stone experiments. Erik was exposed to cosmic energy and his powers were activated before he reached puberty. That is how HYDRA knew that the infinity stones could unlock mutant powers.

Later, HYDRA under the guise of SHEILD helps Sinister contaminate the world food supply to suppress the X-gene. This is something HYDRA would totally do since they wanted to eliminate anyone that could pose a threat to their goal of world domination in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

With most mutants being completely unaware of their powers, the 616 Erik Legnsherr never became Magneto. Instead he decided to live a normal life in Sokovia and started a family. He passed his genetic anomalies to his children and his grandchildren also inherited the X-gene. Two of these grandchildren are no other than Wanda and Pietro Maximoff.

Then HYDRA gains possession of the mind stone and Sinister begins his mutant experiments again. He tracks down Erik Legnsherr and discovers that he had descendants in Sokovia who inherited his special genetics. Ironically, the Maximoff twins share the same fate as their grandfather.

838 MCU Sinister

Something similar might have happened in the 838 MCU.

When the Illuminate were introduced in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness the Inhumans and the Fantastic Four were mentioned when Black Bolt and Mister Fantastic appeared. However, the X-Men were not mentioned when Professor X appeared. Why is that? Perhaps it is because there is no new generation of mutants for Xavier to recruit.

Deadpool 3

If Marvel goes down this direction, the perfect place to reveal this would be in Deadpool 3. The writers have suggested that the film will be a fish-out of water story with it having a multiverse plot.

"It's a wonderful opportunity for fish-out-of-water. Deadpool is a lunatic at the centre of a movie. To drop a lunatic into a very sane world, it's straight butter. It's going to be really fun," he told Post Cred Pod.

Although he doesn't go into too much detail, this "fish-out-of-water" story suggests Wade Wilson's introduction to the MCU timeline after being transported from his reality in the Fox universe.

Perhaps Deadpool and Cable arrive in the 616 via Cable's time travel device. Cable comes from the future of the X-Men universe (50 years to be precise). So he probably knows that Sinister was behind the near extinction of mutants and puts together that the same thing is happening in the 616 when he notices that Alkali-Transigen/Essex Corp exists in that world.

I also have a theory on how mutants around the world could have their powers unlocked. But I'll save that for another thread. Would like to know your thoughts!

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DevilMayehm666

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@cattlebattle:

No. It was known as the "Xavier's dream Saga". People just call those issues that because of the cartoon.

Oh, remember? Like officially?

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I ask because AFAIK, only the animated series has officially labeled Jean becoming Phoenix, the Shi'ar/Starjammers stuff, and Phoenix healing the M'Kraan Crystal as "The Phoenix Saga".

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I ask because AFAIK, only the animated series has officially labeled Jean becoming Phoenix, the Shi'ar/Starjammers stuff, and Phoenix healing the M'Kraan Crystal as "The Phoenix Saga".

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@mrnihal: @LordMordor:

I know its for fun but I watched their commentary and they seriously believe in a lot of them.

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#7  Edited By DevilMayehm666

@mrnihal:

After watching this and their commentary I've come to found that a lot of screen junkies' criticisms of the film are the result of them forgetting key moments from previous movies and misinterpreting the tone of the film.

Magneto being a free man was explain at the end of Apocalypse. Jean had as much screen time in Apocalypse as Mystique and Magneto. That scene where they said they are the last of the First Class is suppose to be sad because the other members are dead its because the actors are bored. Jean wasn't corrupted by the cosmic cloud or evil but suffering from a psychosis brought about from her childhood trauma.

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#8  Edited By DevilMayehm666
@cattlebattle said:

I wasn't terrible...it wasn't particularly good either unfortunately.

There is a lot of problems with it that I won't go into now, however, I will flex on how much I dislike the Phoenix.

The original concept, which was also the best concept IMO, was that Jean with Phoenix powers was just the full extent of her powers, she was a god basically but the power got out of control and she feared for what her life would be like with no control over her godhood and killed herself. Then they retconned it to be a space a avatar and things became extremely convoluted and it takes away from Jean's character as she would just be possessed by an evil demon basically or an alternate personality. This is what they went with in this film. They didn't even have the Phoenix speak through Jean or anything, it just apparently dredged up her memories and had her more angry than she normally would be, it was sort of riding the fence between the X3 Jean and space avatar Jean.

Nobody can ever do the Phoenix right I feel. Even the cartoons have had some weird takes on it. The Phoenix should just be Jean's full potential realized and as she realizes her godhood she becomes more distant and austere making her the antagonist. Inspirations I would point to are Luc Besson's "Lucy" or "Akira" when handling it.The route they always go down with it is like a bad soap opera.

I rewatched this a few times after release. Its implied that the force was unlocking Jean's full potential hence why her powers were getting stronger. There is a scene where Jessica Chastain says "You're special, Jean. You're stronger than you know".

I think I remember Simon Kinberg saying that the force "awakened" something in her back in 2017.

EDIT: Here it is.

“Jean absorbs those solar flares and then hurls them back out into space,” explains director Simon Kinberg of the sequence shown in the above exclusive concept art. “That’s what triggers, awakens, creates this Phoenix force and voice inside her.

https://ew.com/movies/2017/12/07/dark-phoenix-x-men-jean-grey-space/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

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#9  Edited By DevilMayehm666

@theinsufferable:

Dunno if you have already watched it but it depends on how you approach the movie. Don't expect it to be about fighting a big bad like it was marketed to be because it was never meant be a classic superhero summer movie according to the filmmakers. Jean is the protagonist rather than the antagonist and they portrayed her more as being a schizophrenic than corrupted (that was their intent).

It was a very mismarketed movie and that had lead to a lot of people misreading the story, plot, and tone.

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She also didn't seem all that powerful. She seemed more powerful in Last Stand.

That's because the filmmakers wanted the movie to be about an empowered woman taking control of her destiny instead of being Jean becoming a villain like it was marketed.