Aristeaus

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Aristeaus

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He clears. Even if we say the characters he beat were featless,he did beat an amped Mephisto and beat multiple celestials (celestials power levels are the same as they're from outside the multiverse)

He was also captured by some mephistos and even self proclaimed he almost died to them. Not that impressive.

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Aristeaus

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#2  Edited By Aristeaus

It was discussed between Lucas and the writers why Vader did not use the force against Ben in ANH. The answer they came up with is that they couldn't.

"We will have him (Obi-Wan) say Vader couldn't use his supernatural powers against me because I was too strong. He had to rely on brute force, which wasn't of any value, because I was too advanced for that. So everything he did to me was useless.

Maybe we should set up some levels of achievement. Ben can say that Luke is now a level 2 and Vader is a 4. I was a 6 and the Emperor is a 6..."

We also have the ANH Novelization showing that Obi-Wan had indeed grown in power, not weakened.

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Aristeaus

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@dathvada said:

Would those three masters be above a dark side AOTC Obi-wan trained by Count Dooku though? Because you need to prove that they are for your core argument to work.

I think you need to prove that. I am not making a point. I am making a counter point.

But sure... much like your image, it is all based on a timeframe. There is a point where they are useful and a point where they might be considered a threat.

The problem is that we have a guideline for where that person needs to be, and it is above Maul. Sidious was never afraid of Maul.

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Sidious allowed Maul to live, despite the possibility of him teaming up with Dooku ( which was even offered twice ). This is pretty clear evidence that Maul was not a threat to Sidious even with Dooku.

Sidious grew substantially after Order 66, and even further between ROTS and the OT.

All darkside users grew after Order 66 as referenced in this thread.

Even Sidious (whom, as you astutely pointed out, is astoundingly conceited due to his nature as a dark sider) wouldn't agree with this. Per the above, he considers the hypothetical duo of a slightly improved Ventress + Dooku as a duo that could rival himself

That is a unquantifiable improvement would have been a potential threat. Dooku trained Ventress for a good bit and was not a problem. How long that would take is completely subjective, as is the word "could".

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Aristeaus

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It is a consistent theme throughout the films and television shows that Darth Sidious is never more than one legitimate apprentice -- or Jedi Knight -- away from being usurped. The trouble with the Sith is that they all become very powerful, and they're all willing to gang up on the strongest Sith to take him out -- the notorious "Rule of Two." Whether Obi-Wan Kenobi with Darth Tyranus, or Luke Skywalker with Darth Vader. Lord Sidious managed to head off Asajj Ventress just as she was becoming too powerful, separating her from Lord Tyranus, and Savage Opress abandoned his training before he could master his power; he wasn't able to be taught anything further by Darth Maul before Lord Sidious once again stepped in, putting an end to that. And of course, Ahsoka Tano refused to become Lord Maul's apprentice.

If Lord Tyranus and Darth Maul joined together, that's precisely what Darth Sidious has been trying to avoid. Even past his prime, Lord Maul still has his Sith training, and the strength worthy of a Dark Lord -- when partnered with the elder Darth Tyranus, Lord Sidious will fall more often than not. It'd be a tight match, of course, and the cunning Sith Supreme will be able to pull it off a few rounds.

Disagree.

Sith are, by their vary nature, egotistical. Just because someone thinks they can do something doesn't mean they can. He has thought this very thought with EVERYONE on his side at one point or another.

In AOTC, Dooku thinks he can usurp Sidious with Kenobi. Yet, in ROTS, we see Mace with 3 other masters, each of those masters are above AOTC Kenobi, while Mace is above/= Dooku as of AOTC, and they served no distraction or hinderance for Sidious in the slightest. This would have been no threat to Sidious.

Sidious was very aware of the various people Dooku recruited to his cause. He wasn't happy about it, but he didn't put a stop to it either. He wasn't worried about being overthrown.

Even Dooku was not even a "legitimate apprentice".

“As he looks up into the eyes of Anakin Skywalker for the final time, Count Dooku knows that he has been deceived not just today, but for many, many years. That he has never been the true apprentice. That he has never been the heir to the power of the Sith. He has only been a tool.

His whole life - all his victories, all his struggles, all his heritage, all his principles and his sacrifices, everything he’s done, everything he owns, everything he’s been, all his dreams and grand visions for the future Empire and the Army of Sith - have been only a pathetic sham, because of them, all of him, add up only to this.

Even after Order 66; Vader, a objectively stronger character then Dooku ever was, had over a dozen Inquisitors at his disposal.

Hell, Sidious ordered Vader to train them.

Dooku would need another person on his level to actually challenge Sidious. Maul is not that and never has been.

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Thor gets visibly dazed by a boulder that isn't even the size of his body being tossed at him then even further dazed by 4 hits from Ultron (who has nowhere near the strength of striking of the Karathen) to the point where he drops his hammer and can't retaliate but somehow he'll be fine being hit by something worse by several orders of magnitude. Never change comic vine.

this

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un... Amenadiel became god in that show... This is a huge mismatch.

Also remember that Lucifer was not even remotely worried about the cross over with the Anti-Monitor destroying universes.

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Is it first season like the image indicates? Then only Gojo.

If it includes second season, or manga, then Sakuna counts too.

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as a huge bleach simp, battle beast one-shots

not even remotely fair based on physicals, assuming verse/energy equalization

Depends. Is this anime or comic BB? Do the databooks count?

Anime BB has little to no feats. Comic is much higher, but then the databooks have him pretty freaking weak.

Remember that Kenpachi was cutting skyscrapers in half casually and Kenpachi considered him a real challenge.

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Any of the Spiders solo. They don't even need the Kryptonite spear.

lol nonsense