The Phoenix; there can only be one?

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Posted by Squares (8661 posts) - - Show Bio

It's been quite a while since Rachel Summers made an appearance in the X-men, and we're probably not seeing her any time soon. There's a few ways I can back up that statement, such as the fact that she hasn't been brought back already (which means she is either a) somewhat unpopular, or b) already scheduled to appear as part of another story arc yet to come, but even if that is the case, there's so much going on in the Marvel universe right now that there just doesn't seem to be much of a place for her), but I'll stick with the most interesting reason here, and say that she can't exist in the series (as Phoenix, which she has been since the mid-80s) for as long as Hope is around. And I don't think Hope will be going anywhere for a while.
Why can't they exist together? Simply because of the fact that (and I'm finally admitting it) Hope is probably channeling Phoenix power in some way, either via mimicry or something else, and a large part of the legend of the Phoenix is that there can only ever be one at a time. In myth, it lays an egg, the only egg it will ever bear, and dies, right on top of it. All phoenixes are, therefore, orphans (Kinda like Rachel), and the sole member of their species for the duration of their life. Note that this also means that Phoenixes reproduce asexually, but that's beside the point.
Think about it, when have you seen the Phoenix being channeled by two different people at the same time? No, the Stepford Cuckoos do not count, they're essentially a singular entity. Sure, Jean Grey and Rachel did happen to be alive at the same time for a while in the 90s (I think it was a little after Inferno, notable events therein included Scott and Jean's wedding), but were they both Phoenix at the time? I don't recall that being the case.  
So yes, Marvel did, indeed, go with the obvious and make Hope a Phoenix avatar of one sort or another. Personally, I find her the most likable host in the series to date. Jean always struck me as being too perfect, and Rachel...I never liked Rachel. Even if this is the return of Phoenix after a glorious few years of respite, it's with a new host; one that has still uncharted levels of power (well, they always say that...). We're not facing another 'oh look, Jean's back....again' scenario, we don't have to listen to Rachel yell at Cyclops for not creating an Earth 616 version of her (I always thought that was super creepy...), and best of all, no Madelyne! I, for one, am pretty excited to see what lies ahead for the X-men.
(Also, feel free to correct me, I am by no means an expert when it comes to the Phoenix Force)

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#1 Posted by PhoenixEgg (88 posts) - - Show Bio

There is and can only be one Phoenix. The rest are shoddy, obvious marketing ploys that I can only Hope will continue to fail miserably. 
Suffice it to say, I thought Warsong was completely hilarious trash. Endsong sold better for an obvious reason, but here goes Marvel trying again. We didn't care that the Cuckoos had the Phoenix, why should we care that Hope has it? 
The real thing, Marvel, please and thank you. 

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#2 Posted by PowerHerc (86188 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, and that only one is Jean Grey.
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#3 Posted by michael9065 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll bet Hope's powers were activated because of a fragment of the Phoenix Force. Not to mention she is more powerful then any mutant that is still powered. And it'd explain why she has manifested the phoenix raptor. looks like Phoenix Force has work to do through Hope as the rest of the fragements are being collected by Phoenix/Jean.
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#4 Posted by thewidowsbite (149 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like since I haven't really been reading the comics lately (though following the storylines on sites like this), I don't really have a legitimate reason to dislike Hope, but I DO! I guess it's because I'm a die-hard Jean fan and feel robbed that the fact they would push this not even generic, but HOMEMADE brand of a truly remarkable character into the limelight is a slap in the face. I don't know why so many people on this site hate Jean and/or love Hope but I really want to stress how Marvel has been using Jean as their own punching bag. They keep killing her off and teasing us with short-lived comebacks and won't stop mentioning or alluding to her. Why do they do it? Because Jean Grey was and is an comic icon. Whether you anti-Jean viners believe it or not she was a key factor in some of of comic books' greatest storylines ever and because she's such a likable and famous character it's damn near impossible to exclude her in any X-Men stories in other media. That's why she's been in all the cartoon shows (except for Pryde of the X-Men, which never saw the light of day past a single pilot), most of the video games that featured the X-Men (including the new Marvel vs. Capcom 3), and was a pivotol character in the film series (after the first one, though even in that one she had some significance).  
Totally sounded like a fanboy there, but I was just trying to address why I feel Marvel needs to keep the original around and stop f-ing with her character. Besides I'm not ashamed to stand up for the characters I love and wouldn't bash anyone else's favs like Wolverine or Emma (who I like for the most part, but feel she, and Cyclops, set a terrible example for their parts in Cyclops' infidelity) just because I want to ruin it for anyone else. Be mature folks.
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#5 Posted by karrob (4304 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:
" Yes, and that only one is Jean Grey. "
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#6 Edited by GREGalicious (606 posts) - - Show Bio

There is only one,  and that will always be JEAN.  
If i had to say there was a 2nd, then the logical choice would be MADELYNE. 
Next would be RACHEL or maybe even CABLE. As Jean's (and Madelyne's) offspring, the power is their birthright..  
HOPE is powerful, but has no direct claim to the full power of PHOENIX. 
There clearly can be many Phoenixes but Jean isTHE PHOENIX.

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#7 Posted by Squares (8661 posts) - - Show Bio
@GREGalicious: Sorry, you've been beaten to the punch- someone already posted that. Anything new to say?
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#8 Posted by GREGalicious (606 posts) - - Show Bio
Not sure what ur definition of "new" is but Im pretty sure no one made any mention of CABLE's potential claim to the Phoenix power OR the fact that it seemed to have been following JEANs family in general (NOT just red-headed children & omega mutants).
Using fragments and portions or Phoenix is not THE Phoenix but in any case, clearly, all roads lead back to JEAN and eventually, so will little HOPEs.
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#9 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (5943 posts) - - Show Bio

The Phoenix has had two host at the same time, it was in Rachel and Maddie (which became evident during Inferno), Jean absorbed the piece Maddie had and unleashed to destroy the hand of Celestial. 

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#10 Posted by Squares (8661 posts) - - Show Bio
@GREGalicious: Why do you keep using capitals for the characters' names?
@LordOfAllHumans: Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. Obviously I need to pay closer attention when reading comics.
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#11 Posted by golvellius (215 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a very interesting topic indeed, yes it has been talked about like forever but it still makes us tap our keyboards and scracth our brains.....I totally liked the story from the pages of Excalibur where the Phoenix abandons Rachel Summers.  Because it kind of brings back what everyone tends to forget about the is an entitiy that thinks and acts by its own acord.  The Shiar believe that after the merge with Jean Grey the Phoenix shares a link with the Greys...because they remind it of the home it once found within Jean.  Can someone besides the Greys channel its powers...only if the Phoenix decides it.  Most importantly the Phoenix had left Rachell because it had allready experienced humanity and as a cosmic being it had a mission beyond earth and humans...There are a lot of cosmic beings in the Marvel Universe and troughout the years they've made "contracts" with humans and aliens in order to give balance to the world.  Eon and Quasar; Oblvion and Phylla-vell; Death and Thanos; Vengeance and the Ghost Riders; The Hawk God and Starhawk... Why do theese entyties try to help us?  Why do they choose champions to their cause? What Balance do they seek and what would happen if it was ever lost the answers to theese questions would have been far more interesting than the hammer hopping fear itself crossover.....Besides that and back to the topic at hand....I think it would be interesting to see X-man as the avatar of the Phoenix....
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#12 Posted by Squares (8661 posts) - - Show Bio
@golvellius: I thought that was pretty cool too, not to mention it made me feel a bit more justified in thinking of Rachel as a whiny brat. And X-man as a Phoenix host seems like it'd be kinda redundant- he's already (or was?) so damn powerful.

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