His Decision ****SPOILER****

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#1 Posted by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio

Did he do the right thing? All things infacted and how the end results came out, was his decision right or wrong?

I personally would almost have to think that his decision was right, for the sole reason that i might have handled in the same way if i knew or thought the same things he did, it killed a great amount of people but inevitably saved the lives of the others (Instead of killing them all in a nuclear war).

But even though *****SPOILER****** Dr. Manhatten eradicated Roscharsch, his journal still lives on and we get to see the chubby kiosk guy get a hand on it, was roscharsch's death meaningless? (He as a person would of told the whole world about the lie that peace is based on but wont his journal to just the same anyway?)

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#2 Posted by No_Name_ (16193 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's an easy question to answer, but to state simply:

I think the means to his end was evil, but the end was intended to be "good."

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#3 Posted by TheDrifter (24811 posts) - - Show Bio

I think in the end, Rorshach wanted to die

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#4 Posted by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio

sadly yes

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#5 Posted by No_Name_ (16193 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think he wanted to die. I think he disagreed with Ozy, thats all. His death wasn't meaningless, I don't know why anyone would think that, since he was martyred for a cause.

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#6 Posted by TheDrifter (24811 posts) - - Show Bio
BatgirlBabs said:
"I don't think he wanted to die. I think he disagreed with Ozy, thats all. His death wasn't meaningless, I don't know why anyone would think that, since he was martyred for a cause.
"
Touche
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#7 Edited by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio
BatgirlBabs said:
"I don't think he wanted to die. I think he disagreed with Ozy, thats all. His death wasn't meaningless, I don't know why anyone would think that, since he was martyred for a cause.
"
the end was left for us to think about, and seeing as the journal that the news guy now has in his hands basically beholds the same information Roscharsch knew, the truth will be told anyway (we just didnt get to see it in the movie)
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#8 Posted by No_Name_ (16193 posts) - - Show Bio

How is that any different than what I just wrote?

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#9 Posted by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio

Because in the end it was roscharsch's master plan that no one thought about, the way you thought is he died for peace, but the way roscharsch thought is he died for truth, leaving Manhatten and Ozymadias thinking it will never come out and peace will be restored. But thanks to that distraction soon thereafter war will begin anyway.

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#10 Posted by ~The Wanderer~ (34199 posts) - - Show Bio
Voidheart said:
"the end was left for us to think about, and seeing as the journal that the news guy now has in his hands basically beholds the same information Roscharsch knew, the truth will be told anyway (we just didnt get to see it in the movie) "
Do we ever see him read the whole journal? He might read some of it and then lose interest, thinking it's some kind of paranoid conspiracy theory that no one wants to know about...and then he picks another story to fill that column o_O?
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#11 Posted by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio

the thing is, his boss tells him to print ANYTHING he can find, because peace made news boring, they have nothing to write about, so a "Paranoid Conspiracy" is the PERFECT thing for a news break, besides, the camera even twisted to Roscharsch's Journal at the end.

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#12 Posted by Nighthunter Earth-1974 (110 posts) - - Show Bio

umm the journal never says Adrian's plan or his involvement with the squid or the manhattan attack

it ends with him saying that he and nite-owl are going to the antartida in order to stop him, considering how Rorschach is a psychopath that is wanted by the law and Nite-owl is also wanted by the law since he broke him out of prison and Ozymandias is beloved by the public I doubt anyone would believe them without proof anyway

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#13 Posted by ~The Wanderer~ (34199 posts) - - Show Bio
Voidheart said:
"the thing is, his boss tells him to print ANYTHING he can find, because peace made news boring, they have nothing to write about, so a "Paranoid Conspiracy" is the PERFECT thing for a news break, besides, the camera even twisted to Roscharsch's Journal at the end."
Hmm good point.
Nighthunter Earth-1974 said:
"umm the journal never says Adrian's plan or his involvement with the squid or the manhattan attack

it ends with him saying that he and nite-owl are going to the antartida in order to stop him, considering how Rorschach is a psychopath that is wanted by the law and Nite-owl is also wanted by the law since he broke him out of prison and Ozymandias is beloved by the public I doubt anyone would believe them without proof anyway"
...That too.
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#14 Posted by Dormath (2400 posts) - - Show Bio

There is also the case that no one would believe it that Ozy would do such a thing.


In the end I agree with what Ozy did he found the solution that may not have been a cake walk in the morality department but that is why it worked.  If there was a chance for everything to come out all roses then superheros would not be needed.

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#15 Posted by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio
Dormath said:
"There is also the case that no one would believe it that Ozy would do such a thing.


In the end I agree with what Ozy did he found the solution that may not have been a cake walk in the morality department but that is why it worked.  If there was a chance for everything to come out all roses then superheros would not be needed.
"
true, some will belive it, and some wont (maybe even the majority) plus, we never got to see what happened to him in the end
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#16 Posted by Acheron (1451 posts) - - Show Bio
Nighthunter Earth-1974 said:
"umm the journal never says Adrian's plan or his involvement with the squid or the manhattan attack

it ends with him saying that he and nite-owl are going to the antartida in order to stop him, considering how Rorschach is a psychopath that is wanted by the law and Nite-owl is also wanted by the law since he broke him out of prison and Ozymandias is beloved by the public I doubt anyone would believe them without proof anyway
"
Rorschach is a psycho wanted by law, but the newspaper that he gave his journal to supported him (didn't they write positive articles about him in the GN? I think so). If anyone was going to even start to believe Rorschach, it'd be them.
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#17 Posted by Static Shock (53047 posts) - - Show Bio

Even with that journal that Rorschach left behind, there isn't any real evidence along with it to expose Adrian. Thus, it'll just be a bunch of bull and everything that Ozy planned for would still prosper. With Rorschach branded as a psychopath, the populace isn't going to believe what's in that journal, despite the fact that a local newspaper decides to publish whatever's in it.

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#18 Posted by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio

Ohh nice one

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#19 Posted by Super-Buster (2567 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm... if I recall correctly, it was Dr. Manhattan's disappearance from earth (which Veidt caused) that sparked the Soviets to escalate things in Afghanistan. To me, it feels like Veidt saved the earth from a crisis he created in the first place and sacrificed millions of lives to do so. Since the earth was never going to be destroyed in the first place Veidt created a situation in which it would just so he could save it and measure up to his idol/s.


Also, there was no guarantee that the earth would react the way it did. Wasn't there a major sub-theme that humans are savage by nature? What if the Soviets took advantage of the situation and used it to launch a preemptive strike to finish the U.S. off? In other words Veidt sacrificed the lives of millions in a gamble that have just as easily ended humanity as prevent nuclear war. Either way Veidt stood to profit. If there was peace Veidt "saved the world" but if a nuclear war happened Veidt would be safe in his little antarctic abode and be there as the hero who helped rebuild humanity from the brink. 
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#20 Posted by Detective (582 posts) - - Show Bio

i believe it was wrong but with the outcome i dunno, i wouldn't have done what Ozy did

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#21 Posted by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio
Super-Buster said:
"Hmm... if I recall correctly, it was Dr. Manhattan's disappearance from earth (which Veidt caused) that sparked the Soviets to escalate things in Afghanistan. To me, it feels like Veidt saved the earth from a crisis he created in the first place and sacrificed millions of lives to do so. Since the earth was never going to be destroyed in the first place Veidt created a situation in which it would just so he could save it and measure up to his idol/s.

Also, there was no guarantee that the earth would react the way it did. Wasn't there a major sub-theme that humans are savage by nature? What if the Soviets took advantage of the situation and used it to launch a preemptive strike to finish the U.S. off? In other words Veidt sacrificed the lives of millions in a gamble that have just as easily ended humanity as prevent nuclear war. Either way Veidt stood to profit. If there was peace Veidt "saved the world" but if a nuclear war happened Veidt would be safe in his little antarctic abode and be there as the hero who helped rebuild humanity from the brink. 
"
how did Veidt start it in the first place?
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#22 Posted by Super-Buster (2567 posts) - - Show Bio
Voidheart said:
how did Veidt start it in the first place?
It was Veidt who caused Dr. Manhattan to go to Mars with his "everyone you touch gets cancer" crusade. The reason the Soviets felt safe to invade Afghanistan was because the U.S. no longer had Manhattan. Ergo, Veidt caused the escalation in Afghanistan that he "saved the world" from.
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#23 Posted by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio
Super-Buster said:
"Voidheart said:
how did Veidt start it in the first place?
It was Veidt who caused Dr. Manhattan to go to Mars with his "everyone you touch gets cancer" crusade. The reason the Soviets felt safe to invade Afghanistan was because the U.S. no longer had Manhattan. Ergo, Veidt caused the escalation in Afghanistan that he "saved the world" from.
"
  it wasnt only afghanistan that was at threat, even before that they had the doomsday clock in which the nuclear war between RUSSIA and AMERICA was ment to start.
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#24 Posted by Super-Buster (2567 posts) - - Show Bio

It wasn't until the escalation in Afghanistan that the president and his advisors decided to "fuel the bombers". Otherwise Veidt sacrificed millions of lives to simply end the cold war, a war we know to have passed without nuclear incident.

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#25 Posted by warlock360 (28189 posts) - - Show Bio
Super-Buster said:
"It wasn't until the escalation in Afghanistan that the president and his advisors decided to "fuel the bombers". Otherwise Veidt sacrificed millions of lives to simply end the cold war, a war we know to have passed without nuclear incident."
they were waiting for WW3 not the ww2
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#26 Posted by Super-Buster (2567 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by The Guardian-Knight. (327 posts) - - Show Bio

WOW, I still can't believe it, No matter what people say Watchmen is not a crappy book, it was created in the 80's and it still has this thing with us all today in 2009!!! (that's just to much for words!)

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#28 Posted by Wise Son (1796 posts) - - Show Bio
He was right. Ozymandias did what needed to be done. Though in the eyes of Dr. Manhattan humanity is transient and fleeting. We've come to figure out the most imminent threat to humanity is itself. All Ozymandias did was delay the inevitable. Dr. Manhattan saw that. I'll wager to say that Rorshach and Ozymandias realized it in their last few panels. That's why Rorshach wanted to die. He saw the vicious cycle but was unable to compromise his self in the situation. He couldn't look past the black and white. He didn't want to accept that what Ozymandias did was right so he went down believing. I felt that Ozymandias knew that it was a temporary fix. His hand had been forced and he had to do what he had to do. It only set in once Jon and him had their last chat. He wondered if all he did was in vain. All those deaths were for nothing. How long would it take before another conflict arose up? 
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#29 Posted by Kairan1979 (27548 posts) - - Show Bio

If we can only be saved by genocide, then we don't deserve to be saved.

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