I think it is. We've seen Kurse smack it away and Hela hold it casually. So how do we conclude the maximum amount of mass/ weight is added when someone other than Thor (or vision) picks it up? Remember, Hulk couldn't even budge it.

Nlf?

@heatforce: kurse is really powerful and hela is worthy and twice as powerful as thor

@darkthunder: Hela isn't worthy; she had Mjolnir before the enchantment was cast by Odin.

I say this again I think Kurse actually smacked Thor away when he got close and dodged Mjolnir.

I watched the scene again at 0.25x on YouTube and it looks more like he swatted away Thor.

And it isn't a NLF because if someone knows how to break the magic they can pick it up or if someone is just in another league altogether like say IG Thanos.

@richubs: the issue though is we have no confirmation that Hela broke the enchantment. She gripped it and even kept Thor from summoning Mjolnir back to himself before she crushed it.

@heatforce:

I think Hela was always worthy.

@richubs: I doubt it. Hela was locked away because she was evil. Odin put the enchantment on Mjolnir right after condemning Thor to earth in the first Thor movie. If Hela was worthy then the enchantment means squat. The only other people who even managed to budge it was Steve and vision, well, either because he's a machine or because he was a pure soul.

@heatforce:

I don't think Mjolnir cares whether the person was banished or not.

If you're worthy then you're worthy.

Doesn't matter when the enchantment was put.

And we still don't know the conditions of worthiness. But I'm guessing Hela has them.

She was basically like Odin when he was young. Ambitious and wanted to become a conquerer.

@heatforce: hela was worthy as she could catch and break mjolnr

@darkthunder: or she overpowered the enchantmennt. If she was worthy then poor Steve Rogers.

@richubs: then explain Steve and Vision. They are the exact opposite of Hela and more in line with Thor's moral compass. Odin put the enchantment on Mjolnir exactly because Thor was becoming a dick like Odin was in the past.

@heatforce: prove she overpowered the enchantment

@heatforce: Steve didn't lift it, and Vision is a machine. Is an Elevator worthy?

@heatforce:

I think we are confusing worthiness purely with personality and morals.

Odin was pretty much like Hela before he turned benevolent and I won't be surprised if he was considered worthy.

@darkthunder: @richubs: Logic would indicate that Hela wasn't worthy. The whole point of Thor 1 was Thor learning to be selfless and to realize that he is not above anyone else. He had to sacrifice himself for mortals in order for him to become worthy because he was reckless, war mongering and had little care for others lives. Remember when he literally killed a Frost Giant for insulting him in at the beginning of the movie. He was basically becoming like Hela and that's why he wasn't worthy.

@darkthunder: obviously I can't but can you prove she was worthy or somehow negated the enchantment?

It is said that only the worthy can lift/wield it. We have only seen Thor, Odin, Hela, and Vision lift it. They are all worthy. We have seen everyone else fail to lift it. It would be a NLF if you say a character can lift it that has not tried to do it. But it isn't a NLF in and of itself really.

@byondeon: It's NLF because the assumption is the enchantment keeps the unworthy from lifting it. No way is Hela worthy especially after we saw Vision lift it and Steve nudge it. You obviously need to be a noble person in order to do so. Hela is not.

@heatforce: No, it in and off itself isn't a NLF. The assumptions is however. Also, you can actually say she didn't really lift it.

@byondeon: she kept Thor from recalling it. Surely Thor was trying to do everything he could to get it out of her hands like not getting in the way of the enchantment.

If you think Hela is worthy then you obviously were not paying attention to the Thor films and have drastically misinterpreted them

Hela clearly was just that powerful that she could do it, and crush it in her hands.

Also this ^

@heatforce: She was most definitely worthy.

Lol at hela being worthy lmao

This thread is going in a direction i did not want it to go lol. Any math wizard's have an idea to calc the maximum weight/ mass Mjolnir can become? Low end should be hulk with pre-rag feats imo as he became more powerful in Ragnarok.

Hela wasn't worthy as per Odin's enchantment. Odin's magic was fading from the world. It is the entire reason Hela was able to escape in the first place. It seems reasonable that the enchantment Odin put on Mjolnir would have also faded after his death.

I can see this as a possibility.

@heatforce: she was definitely worthy because she didn't negate the enchantment.

If that could be done then Loki would have done it a long time ago.

I don't think hela is in magic beacuse all I saw her do was use brute force

@darkthunder:

tell that to vision

What exactly indicates that Vision wasn't selfless and willing to die for others? What indicates that he was a warmonger or didn't care for life? He was perfectly willing to put himself at risk to defeat Ultron in order to save others. And it was originally his idea to sacrifice himself and die to stop Thanos from getting the mind gem.

@amcu: so how does hela lift it? In your opinion

Too powerful.

@amcu: prove she is too powerful. If you go with that logic then even Steve Rogers can lift mjolnr

This seems the most likely.

To add on, the enchantment is completely magical. It's not like it's enchanted to weigh 5 million tons, or else it'd crush anything it sat on. To bypass Odin's enchantment, I guess your magic or powers would have to be able to overpower it.

I don't have to prove something that happened. She stopped Mjolnir with her hand and obliterated it with her fingertips. That's what happened. You argued that she was worthy which is why she stopped it(That doesn't actually explain how she would have destroyed it). I provided reasoning as to why she logically was not worthy(at least of the enchantment that was placed on it in Thor 1). If you want to argue I'm wrong than you can do so. I just don't think the filmmakers could have actually meant for her to be worthy when that would be a contradiction to what has happened before.

I honestly don't care all that much over whether Hela was worthy or not when regarding this as a feat. As a feat her being worthy doesn't change anything about her destroying the hammer, which is really the only feat I care about when regarding this scene. But logically she shouldn't be worthy and to be believe that she was I would need some sort of indication from the director or something in the movie.

@amcu: kurse backhanded it was he worthy? Being worthy is an entirely different thing than lifting it

Kurse wasn't worthy, though redirecting something isn't the same as lifting it.

I'm so confused. Are you agreeing with me?

@amcu: the question asked here is is mjolnr an nlf? I am saying it's not. What we are debating here is is hela worthy? And I don't agree with you for hela not being worthy part.

From my point of view, I believe Steve could have lifted Mjolnir but couldn’t because he was trying to impress people. If it had been for a good reason (not selfish), he probably could have. He was the only one able to nudge it and even Thor seemed worried.

Neither Kurse nor Hela actually lifted it though... Kurse deflected it and Hela simply stopped it mid flight, i.e. stopped it’s forward momentum, and then crushed it. Both of those times Mjolnir was already off the ground either by its own power or by Thor throwing it.

@darkthunder: If you know any sort of history of Thor you know the values needed for worthiness and she was the opposite.

And if you paid attention to the films you'd know that Thor was basically like Hela at the start and needed to learn to be better that's why Odin put the enchantment on Mjolnir so he wouldn't turn out like her yet you think she was worthy. Why would Odin have Hela worthy when he deemed her too evil to be allowed to roam free.

Prove that she was powerful enough? She crushed Mjolnir with her bare hands, there's all the power you need.

Hela is literally the opposite of what Odin would deem worthy. You clearly have no knowledge of the Thor mythos and can't even interpret a film correctly.

@thorthunder98: don't give me those arguments that hela was powerful enough to lift mjolnr. Crushing it is an entirely different thing. Kurse backhands mjolnr

He isn't worthy. I can interpret the film correctly and I know what worthiness means.

Interesting theory but wasn't Asgard fueled by the Odin force in some way? The landmass itself seemed fine, in fact, hela began to draw power from it once she arrived.

LMAO Like I said you don't understand anything about the Thor mythos if you think Hela was worthy. What qualities did she have that made her worthy? Because you clearly don't know the qualities needed and haven't understood the whole reason the enchantment was put on in the first place.

How is crushing it an entirely different thing? she was powerful enough to crush it with one hand and powerful enough to stop it in its tracks, it was clearly resisting her because it was shaking in her hand but she was powerful enough to override that.

You clearly can't interpret the film correctly if you think Hela was worthy, you're one of the very few people that think that because it's just wrong.

Kurse backhands Mjolnir redirecting it he was incredibly strong, he didn't lift it though or stop it mid-air and resist the enchantment.

LMAO no you definitely do not if you think Hela is worthy explain to me what qualities you think she has that make her worthy. You shouldn't speak on things you clearly know nothing about.

Also you brought up Vision that's been discussed before, he was a pure soul when he lifted it and would've had no evil in him which is likely the reasoning behind him lifting it, he's changed since then and likely wouldn't be able to lift it currently.

HELA IS NOT WORTHY !!

It is literally painful to see people actually think this.

@metaljimmor:

Hmm I guess that's more likely.

@amcu:

That still wouldn't explain how Hela lifted Mjolnir.

Odin used magic to enchant Mjolnir so either Hela overpowered the enchantment or she was worthy.

Being simply strong enough wouldn't really explain it because strength is not a criteria to lift Mjolnir.

Mjolnir was moved by Captain but Hulk couldn't move it.

Dorsnt mean Captain was stronger it simply meant he was more worthy.

Hela too is either worthy or she ovwrpowered the enchantment using her own.

From what I remember (I could be wrong) Hela was quite a difficult person to trap and store away. I'm guessing it's because of her too knowing some enchantments otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

I think Metaljimmor's explanation makes the most sense here.

Anyways I don't think her being strong is a valid explanation because we've seen it being proven wrong multiple times.

@darkthunder:

I know the qualities required to be worthy. I doubt it beacuse it doesn't make sense..

No you do not. You have still been unable to give any qualities of Hela that make her worthy. Is it her murderous killing of innocent people that make her worthy? Her wanting to take over the entire nine realms and rule over them like a dictator?

Have you ever picked up a Thor comic in your life because your ignorance is astounding you clearly know nothing about worthiness, go ask any knowledgable Thor fan none of them will agree. You're basically saying evil people are worthy of Mjolnir which is the stupidest shit I've ever heard.

If you had actually understood the film like literally everyone else Odin blocked Hela out because she was too murderous and wanted to destroy all the nine realms and take them over killing innocents that's why she was banished, he saw Thor starting to want to do the same thing and banished him and put the enchantment on to make sure he didn't become like Hela. That was as evident as possible. Even Odin's words prove it "A wise king should never seek out war, but should always be prepared for it" Hela was literally seeking out war and so was Thor in the first film that's why he needed to be banished to become worthy, something Hela never did.

being strong doesn't mean you are powerful. It was a good strength feat but not a feat of power. Power means how formidable you are with all your abilities

Bruh are you just ignorant af or a troll? Hela being powerful was consistently stated throughout the film she was consistently stated to be more powerful than Thor he couldn't beat her and her power was growing throughout the film. The hammer was still resisting her grip and shaking in her hand obviously still under Thor's power.

if you think selflessness is what makes Thor worthy then Steve will lift tha hammer

You really need to be educated on the whole Thor mythos a multitude of things make a person worthy but one thing they can't be is a murderous evil person who wants to take over the nine realms and murders innocent people.

So please explain to me why Odin would think Hela is worthy after he banished her for being a murderous evil dictator?

lol also you ignore half of what I say cause you can't refute it, because you're wrong.

Your lack of logic and comprehension abilities astounds me, I'm losing brain cells talking to you.

Maybe.