Laurence Fishburne is the New Perry White in Man of Steel

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ScarlettLynn

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#51  Edited By ScarlettLynn
@Dernman: @Marshal Victory
Can you not see that it's NOT the same thing? 
 
One is taking away one of the few opportunities for mainstream minority representation. The other is taking a small step to reverse years of casual, and sometimes blatant, racism. 
 
When something like Avatar: The Last Airbender occurs and Hollywood takes away one of the few Asian roles it makes available to Asian actors it's not like there's other options for representation out there. Having Laurence Fishburne take on a role that isn't even dependent on a specific ethnicity is not the same thing.
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SurelockeHomes

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#52  Edited By SurelockeHomes
@Caligula: Perry being white doesn't matter when it comes to the tradition of the characters. Black panther is an African heir in a long line. That means he had many grandparents who were kings too, back from a long long time ago. Plus, he's in Africa. And Africans were in Africa a long long time ago. I'd ask you to try to pick out words and phrases you understand, but that's obviously too hard for you. Maybe I should explain all of it again in more simpler terms. But somehow, I doubt it would help.
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The_Ghostshell

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#53  Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Caligula: @SurelockeHomes: Come on guys, no need to head down that road. I'm confidant you can exchange your difference of opinions without name calling or insulting each others intelligence. Its all good.

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inferiorego

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#54  Edited By inferiorego  Staff

Hey buddies!

Let's keep our cool in here.

If you don't, no ice cream for ANYONE.

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SurelockeHomes

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#55  Edited By SurelockeHomes

*Gasp!* I've been touched by God.  
@Gambler: Okay, sir. I'll make the effort.

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#56  Edited By TikkiEXX

this is kind of embarrassing. really cant believe people are upset about this. its not like Lawrence plays a bunch of thugs and criminals are anything. hes actually a good actor. and none of you people have any idea about the casting process involved. but i gaurantee it wasnt because hes black, and they trying to get black people to see it because of him. thats damn near an insult to black theatre goers and to Fishburne. we dont need to see a black face in order to go see a movie, and Lawrence is an experianced character actor. i think he may have gotten the job on his own merits, it wasnt a gift.

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Caligula

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#57  Edited By Caligula
@Gambler said:

@Caligula: @SurelockeHomes: Come on guys, no need to head down that road. I'm confidant you can exchange your difference of opinions without name calling or insulting each others intelligence. Its all good.

@inferiorego said:

Hey buddies!

Let's keep our cool in here.

If you don't, no ice cream for ANYONE.

I didn't think I said anything that out of hand. I'm not even upset. I was having to retype the same thing over and over again. and it was getting mind numbing.
 
I apologize.
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SurelockeHomes

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#58  Edited By SurelockeHomes
@inferiorego: But mummy, you promised!
 
Also this:
@TikkiEXX said:

this is kind of embarrassing. really cant believe people are upset about this. its not like Lawrence plays a bunch of thugs and criminals are anything. hes actually a good actor. and none of you people have any idea about the casting process involved. but i gaurantee it wasnt because hes black, and they trying to get black people to see it because of him. thats damn near an insult to black theatre goers and to Fishburne. we dont need to see a black face in order to go see a movie, and Lawrence is an experianced character actor. i think he may have gotten the job on his own merits, it wasnt a gift.

And I'm not even black. I'm British, and that's about as white as you can get.
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#59  Edited By Dernman
@sesquipedalophobe: I disagree with you I always found him just as important to the bugle stories as perry white when dealing with the planet.
He has always been important in stories dealing with the Daily Bugle bringing a sense of calm reason and wisdom. Specially when J.J. flies off the handle which he always does.
He has also been there for Peter Parker whenever he saw that peter needed him. If Robbie was gone there would be a huge hole in the Daily bugle cast.
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sesquipedalophobe

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As I said before, if Fishburne can play a black cowboy on Peewee's playhouse then he can do anything. Besides, isn't this technically a dupe thread?

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sesquipedalophobe

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@Dernman: And his being white would affect that strong relationship how?

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#62  Edited By Caligula
@TikkiEXX said:

this is kind of embarrassing. really cant believe people are upset about this. its not like Lawrence plays a bunch of thugs and criminals are anything. hes actually a good actor. and none of you people have any idea about the casting process involved. but i gaurantee it wasnt because hes black, and they trying to get black people to see it because of him. thats damn near an insult to black theatre goers and to Fishburne. we dont need to see a black face in order to go see a movie, and Lawrence is an experianced character actor. i think he may have gotten the job on his own merits, it wasnt a gift.

I said He will be good.  I'm not debating that.
 
But if a character has already existed for years, why change the race? it's pointless. the change being pointless was my whole point. it serves no purpose, it doesn't further the plot or make the story any better.
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ScarlettLynn

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#63  Edited By ScarlettLynn
@Caligula said:
I said He will be good.  I'm not debating that.  But if a character has already existed for years, why change the race? it's pointless. the change being pointless was my whole point. it serves no purpose, it doesn't further the plot or make the story any better.
If it's pointless... If it doesn't cause there to be any changes to the plot or the story... If the character's race serves absolutely no purpose then why not just be pleased they've cast a great actor in the role? Why does his race matter so much to you?
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CurbsideProphet

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#64  Edited By CurbsideProphet

What the Eff!? How dare they get this black man to play my favorite white man in comics. I was on the casting crew, so I know that he wasn't the best and my partners only picked him because he's black. Like they always do. It's like I'm the only sensible caster out there.

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sesquipedalophobe

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@ScarlettLynn said:

@Caligula said:
I said He will be good. I'm not debating that. But if a character has already existed for years, why change the race? it's pointless. the change being pointless was my whole point. it serves no purpose, it doesn't further the plot or make the story any better.
If it's pointless... If it doesn't cause there to be any changes to the plot or the story... If the character's race serves absolutely no purpose then why not just be pleased they've cast a great actor in the role? Why does his race matter so much to you?

I have a new favorite debater.

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#66  Edited By Dernman
@sesquipedalophobe: It like saying superman wasn't an alien anymore. There have been many Superman types in comics that were not aliens but it doesn't change the role he plays and his relations ships.  Or better yet if Superman landed in Ohio instead of Kansas.
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deactivated-5a4e0e8ea3dfb

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@Caligula said:

                @SteevDave said:

@Caligula: Yes but in those 200 comics his race isn't what defines the character it's his personality.  Perry white could have that same personality as a black man or a Latino woman.

                   

               
so you are trying to say the Black Panther and Storm are mostly defined by their race? and not their character and actions? I disagree. Wonder Woman isn't defined by her race but would it be cool if she were out of the blue to become black? what about Iron Man or Superman and I'm not talking about a new guy taking up the mantle, I'm talking about the actual original characters race changing? They are not defined by being white so is it cool if they are black? Blade is defined by being black so it cool if he is white?  Also you have a kick ass user name.
           


I have to disagree with you on this point. The characters that you named are most definitely defined by their race. Black Panther is the leader of an African nation and his name and beliefs come from that background. Changing him to a white, asian or latino character completely erases those aspects of who Black Panther is. Storm is a bit trickier because she defines herself first and foremost as a mutant, which is a race in an of itself. However her style of dress, manner of speech and other aspects of her character are most certaintly defined by her African roots. Wonder Woman, like Black Panther, is completely dependent on her race as both origin and composition of her character. Even during JMS' changes to Wonder Woman did not change the fact that her upbringing and world view is heavily influenced by Amazonian tradition. Sure you could change the color of her skin but that wouldn't affect her race. 
 
This of course is where you have to be careful in the context of your argument. Are we speaking about skin color or race because they are two very different things. An American citizen can be black and in no way feel a connection to an African or other heritage in the same way an American can be white and not identify themselves by their European background and traditions. However many characters do identify and are influenced by their race and or heritage and would not be the same characters without them. 
 
As for Mr. Fishburne playing Perry White.....I don't think the issue of race or skin color affects this character in the least because the original character had very little mannerisms outside of his trademark "great Caesar's ghost" line, which has no racial singularity. 
 
Also the casting of Fishburne for this role allows them to combine two characters in Perry White and Franklin Stern, thus bringing aspects of two great and longstanding characters of the Superman mythos without having to introduce Stern seperately in an origin story.
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sesquipedalophobe

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@Dernman: Have you ever read in any of the comics where Perry White said "as a white man, I want those photographs, Jimmy"? To to brutally honest, this is the strangest nerd scenario I've seen in my life aside from reactions about Samual L. Jackson playing Fury (not that I care, because I don't care for Fury's character or Jackson). If you want a true representation, stick to the books where nothing changes (except during the revamps, maybe Perry will be black) and the artist can capture his receding hairline in all its glory.

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#69  Edited By DH69

Hmm will CSI be able to figure out clark kent is superman? FIND OUT NEXT SEASON TO FIND OUT, WHILE WE TORTURE YOU WITH A TO BE CONTINUED ENDING FOR THE FINALE

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#70  Edited By Caligula
@ScarlettLynn said:
@Caligula said:
I said He will be good.  I'm not debating that.  But if a character has already existed for years, why change the race? it's pointless. the change being pointless was my whole point. it serves no purpose, it doesn't further the plot or make the story any better.
If it's pointless... If it doesn't cause there to be any changes to the plot or the story... If the character's race serves absolutely no purpose then why not just be pleased they've cast a great actor in the role? Why does his race matter so much to you?
it doesn't.
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#71  Edited By Dernman
@ScarlettLynn: Your just not getting it. Your missing the entire point. Just because one is more wrong because it has other reasons that make it wrong (like taking a much needed and opportunity away) it doesn't mean that it erases the other reasons away it's still not wrong.  

  If they changed avatar people would not only been upset they where taking an opportunity away from asian person. They would also be upset that they changed him. The Avatar is Asian not african, indian, latin. No hes asian.
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#72  Edited By Wattup

I just care that the movie is good.

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#73  Edited By Dernman
@sesquipedalophobe: You don't need to read it you can see it. Comics are not just a written experience its a visual. Comics combine different art form into one. They never said metropolis wasn't a purple nut city but you know it's not a purple nut city.
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#74  Edited By Marshal Victory
@ScarlettLynn said:



                    @Dernman: @Marshal Victory:  Can you not see that it's NOT the same thing?   One is taking away one of
the few opportunities for mainstream minority representation. The other
is taking a small step to reverse years of casual, and sometimes blatant,
racism.   When something like Avatar: The Last Airbender occurs and Hollywood takes away one of the few Asian roles it makes available to Asian actors it's not like there's other options for representation out there. Having Laurence Fishburne take on a role that isn't even dependent on a specific ethnicity is not the same thing.

                   

               


Actualy it looks you dont see its the same thing. Your saying this minority role here is important because of race.. then this role isnt.Changing both imho is wrong.Sure perry white race isnt important....So why is a race role in last air bender in ,a fantasy seting important?Try to say story an i get to laugh an point but the roles not race depndant right?Just like your saying on perry white. Your pointing out few asian roles thats took by another race an its "fair" that one race loses over another.
 
You know perry white right?   http://www.comicvine.com/perry-white/29-1809/ 
 
But hey call me a racist because i want source material honored.. all the while YOU get upset that last airbender didnt have the "right" races for roles.Just honor the source material .If race doesnt matter than it shouldnt matter in all roles.Or are you saying minoritys are just able to perform in side non important roles? 
 
I mean youd be fine with http://www.comicvine.com/blade/29-7570/ replaced with say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan right since race is not imprtant part of that character right? 
 
Just honor the source mateiral an eventualy race will not be a problem.Well except writers guild in hollywood has a problem with race as well as age but hey lets not point at the actual people who make the problems . Noo makes much more sence in calling fans of the source material racist.
 
To be clear changing a race just to pander is as bad as changing a race to offend.Its hypocritical to say this race role cant be changed because its a minority but this role can because their more of that race.Its as racist to want to see a movie/comic because a race role was changed, as not wanting to see it because of some ones race.
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#75  Edited By Caligula
@Dernman said:
@ScarlettLynn: Your just not getting it. Your missing the entire point. Just because one is more wrong because it has other reasons that make it wrong (like taking a much needed and opportunity away) then the other doesn't mean that it erases the other reasons away it's still not wrong.     If they changed avatar people would not only been upset they where taking an opportunity away from asian person. They would also be upset that they changed him. The Avertar is Asian not african, indian, latin. No hes asian.
exactly.
 
Just because I think Larry is a good actor, and can do Perry well. Doesn't mean I can't see how pointless it is at the same time.
 
not too long ago rumors were floating that Eddie Murphy was going to play Riddler, and that Will Smith was going to play Steve Rogers. And both said basically the same thing, that even if the rumors were true that they would turn it down, because the characters are white.
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#76  Edited By ScarlettLynn
@Dernman: Well maybe it's just a matter of deciding which so-called "wrong" is more important to perpetuate. 
 
Do you think it's more important to maintain predominantly a "whites only" cast of main and supporting characters because that's the way it was done in the 1930s?
 
Or could the casting of a talented actor in a role that has no real ethnic dependency be something acceptable to you?
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#77  Edited By GeckoNumbRone

Dudes, It's Perry White for God Sake. It's not like they announced Tyrese Gibson for playing Lex Luthor. And frankly, I'm sad to see that, even now, an actor is judged by the color of his skin, and not by his talents. I love to read your guys, but I don't agree with some of you and I don't think it need a long talk to say that Fishburne is a good actor. That's all.
Oh, and sorry about my language skills, I'm French ;).

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#78  Edited By ScarlettLynn
@Caligula said:
exactly.  Just because I think Larry is a good actor, and can do Perry well. Doesn't mean I can't see how pointless it is at the same time.  not too long ago rumors were floating that Eddie Murphy was going to play Riddler, and that Will Smith was going to play Steve Rogers. And both said basically the same thing, that even if the rumors were true that they would turn it down, because the characters are white.
You keep arguing against the casting of a talented actor in this role because it's pointless to change his race. I don't quite understand how that doesn't mean it's not equally pointless to maintain his race.
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sesquipedalophobe

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@Dernman: This is where you missed the point. If you're unhappy with the fact that he's black, shouldn't every representation in film have bothered you because they weren't the perfect likeness of his character? They all seemed wrong, and it was the poor acting.

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#80  Edited By Caligula
@ScarlettLynn said:

@Caligula said:

exactly.  Just because I think Larry is a good actor, and can do Perry well. Doesn't mean I can't see how pointless it is at the same time.  not too long ago rumors were floating that Eddie Murphy was going to play Riddler, and that Will Smith was going to play Steve Rogers. And both said basically the same thing, that even if the rumors were true that they would turn it down, because the characters are white.
You keep arguing against the casting of a talented actor in this role because it's pointless to change his race. I don't quite understand how that doesn't mean it's not equally pointless to maintain his race.
It's not like we are talking about an unestablished character. Perry White has been established for decades, with certain a look. it makes no sense to change it now.
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sesquipedalophobe

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@Caligula: So was Thor, and his portrayal was the poorest. Had Thor been black, would we have had this argument a year earlier?

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#82  Edited By Caligula
@sesquipedalophobe said:

@Caligula: So was Thor, and his portrayal was the poorest. Had Thor been black, would we have had this argument a year earlier?

yes.
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#83  Edited By Dernman
@ScarlettLynn: I would them add a character then to change one. Look at smallville. Choe was a newly created character that became huge to the story. You would have been better of creating her as a black character then making perry white on smallville a black character.
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#84  Edited By Caligula
@Dernman said:
@ScarlettLynn: I would them add a character then to change one. Look at smallville. Choe was a newly created character that became huge to the story. You would have been better of creating her as a black character then making perry white on smallville a black character.
same. add don't change
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#85  Edited By Dernman
@sesquipedalophobe: NO didn't miss the point but you sure as hell just made mine.
I get crazy upset when I think they hired the wrong person. They should never hired who they hired for lois lane in the last movie. The differences are not as big but you can damn well expect I was upset.
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sesquipedalophobe

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@Dernman: You must become upset every time Marvel (and DC) releases a film. I was unhappy with Frank Langella. I think it was because of his previous films, as he's more domineering yet calm for someone as hotheaded as Perry White.

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ScarlettLynn

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#87  Edited By ScarlettLynn
@Marshal Victory said:

Its hypocritical to say this race role cant be changed because its a minority but this role can because their more of that race.Its as racist to want to see a movie/comic because a race role was changed, as not wanting to see it because of some ones race. 

It's just simply not. It's not the same thing and it's incredibly sad that you can't see past the wall of white privilege to grasp that. Erasing representation of other cultures, races or skin colors is NOT the same thing as simply choosing to include one talented actor who happens to be black in a film role.

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#88  Edited By NightFang3

That interesting casting, but he would make a better Lex Luthor.

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sesquipedalophobe

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I think Lex Luthor should be left alone for a while. Hackman and Spacey saw to it and proved that even dramatic actors can't tell the difference between evil genius and blooper reel.

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#90  Edited By Caligula
@ScarlettLynn said:

@Marshal Victory said:

Its hypocritical to say this race role cant be changed because its a minority but this role can because their more of that race.Its as racist to want to see a movie/comic because a race role was changed, as not wanting to see it because of some ones race. 

It's just simply not. It's not the same thing and it's incredibly sad that you can't see past the wall of white privilege to grasp that. Erasing representation of other cultures, races or skin colors is NOT the same thing as simply choosing to include one talented actor who happens to be black in a film role.

you really really really don't get it.
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#91  Edited By NightFang3
@sesquipedalophobe: I think Hackman's Luthor worked for those films, but the Spacey one was horrible and is really the fault of bad writing.
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#92  Edited By Lvenger

Does Fishburne have the range to play a newspaper editor? I'm not sure but I hope Snyder knows what he is doing. Having said that, it would be cool to see Morph... I mean Perry in a bullet time Snyder CGI sequence lol.

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ScarlettLynn

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#93  Edited By ScarlettLynn
@Caligula said:
@ScarlettLynn said:

@Marshal Victory said:

Its hypocritical to say this race role cant be changed because its a minority but this role can because their more of that race.Its as racist to want to see a movie/comic because a race role was changed, as not wanting to see it because of some ones race. 

It's just simply not. It's not the same thing and it's incredibly sad that you can't see past the wall of white privilege to grasp that. Erasing representation of other cultures, races or skin colors is NOT the same thing as simply choosing to include one talented actor who happens to be black in a film role.

you really really really don't get it.
No. I don't get hiding behind years of institutional racism in order to maintain a white's only casting policy for major Hollywood films. And I'm sorry for you, that you do get that. 
 
Hopefully the one or two white male superheroes that get to star in movies these days will be enough to comfort you in this time of distress.
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#94  Edited By Dernman
@ScarlettLynn: If they were simply choosing to include an actor who just happened to be black.  They could have simple created character (which they do all the time (creating characters that is)) who just happens to be black.
It seems you have wall of a different kind you can't see past all your own
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#95  Edited By Primmaster64

Lex Luthor should not be in the movie

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Jonny_Anonymous

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#96  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous

This is stupid, its like arguing that Chris Evans is from Boston not NY

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Caligula

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#97  Edited By Caligula
@spiderbat87 said:
This is stupid, its like arguing that Chris Evans is from Boston not NY
not really. it's the equivalent of making a movie about Chris and making him Black.
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ScarlettLynn

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#98  Edited By ScarlettLynn
@Caligula said:
watch your mouth or Batman in a KKK hood is going to find you and beat you with a stick.
I won't continue a conversation with a person who considers that to be either an appropriate or humorous comment. You're sick and it's been a waste of my time discussing this, or anything with you. Do not respond to me again and I'll do you the courtesy of the same.
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It doesn't bother me that they cast someone of a different race/skin colour in the role, because I know that Laurence Fishburne is going to give a great performance, as he nearly always does. I think it can work when they do things like this when casting roles, the prime examples being Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury and Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin. Hell, Kingpin was my favourite thing in the Daredevil movie. 
 
As for the arguments that seem to be plaguing the comments, I don't think it's that much of a big deal that they changed him. I'm not however, going to sit and say I'm completely open to different casting and lie. In all honesty I don't know what my reaction would be like if they changed a big character, say Superman, Batman or Spider-Man. When people were campaigning through social networking sites for Donald Glover to become the new Peter Parker, I didn't want it to happen, mainly because I've always saw Peter as a white man. Maybe it was a knee-jerk reaction, much like Fishburne's casting and the reveal of Miles Morales was to others, but I'd like to think I can change my overall opinion on it since I recognised it. 
 
Just thought I'd share my thought on the news article and the comments that surround it.

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#100  Edited By Caligula
@ScarlettLynn said:
@Caligula said:
watch your mouth or Batman in a KKK hood is going to find you and beat you with a stick.
I won't continue a conversation with a person who considers that to be either an appropriate or humorous comment. You're sick and it's been a waste of my time discussing this, or anything with you. Do not respond to me again and I'll do you the courtesy of the same.
sorry, I felt like I was having to compete with you for the stupidest comment in this thread. :D
 
my absurd comment (intentionally comical), was reflecting your own "flawless" logic that the only reason characters who have always been white in comics stay white because of a racist conspiracy to keep the black man down. Lord knows if we put black men in tights it's the end of the world. come on. grow up.

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