Superboy in Injustice: Gods Among Us?

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#1 Edited by PRgirl94 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/12/writer-brian-buccellato-teases-whats-to-come-in-injustice-year-four

IGN: How doe the Year Three Annual relate to the core series? Is it similar to past annuals in that it tells side-stories taking place during that year?

Buccellato: I wanted to tell the story of what happened to the TEEN TITANS and specifically, Superboy. So it is a YEAR ONE tale that takes us back to the beginning.

(underline added for emphasis)

Um, okay, WHAT?! Superboy existing in the Injustice universe?! As in a version of Kon-El?! How did this happen? How is this possible if the Lex Luthor in that universe is a good guy and is Superman's friend? He obviously existed at least since Year 1. So where has he been this whole time with this whole craziness? How is it that he hasn't been seen interacting with this universe's Superman? Why has Superman been grieving over the lost chance to meet another Kryptonian with his unborn baby's death if we have Superboy existing at that time? Does he even know about this kid? Are they even related by blood? What are his new origins in this universe? How is it that he's with the Titans? And what does he think about this whole regime?

So many questions; hopefully this annual answers most, if not all, of them. Either way, I hope that this isn't just something that they address for this issue only and then never mention again. That would be so lame. I've got a lot of theories about how this whole thing has happened, but I'd like to hear your thoughts about this.

Personally, I hope that his origins aren't as simple as him being a pure Superman clone or not being related to Superman by blood at all, though not as convoluted as the New 52 origin. I like a good balance of intricacy and comprehensibility when it comes to storytelling, especially with character origins. I hope that he will be a Kryptonian/human hybrid again, though I don't think that the human side is likely to come from Lex Luthor, considering that Luthor was never Superman's enemy in this universe. I honestly think that it would be really interesting if he turned out to be a clone of Superman and Lois's dead unborn baby, though that would be tragic and considering the context of the game, it would have to mean that Superman never finds out about his existence or else he does find out and Kon either dies or fakes his own death. But who knows? The Titans section is probably not gonna take up a lot of space in the annual, though I'm sure that they will be an important part of it and that Superboy will be a huge part of the Titans story, considering that the writer mentioned him specifically. Again, I just hope that this isn't the only Injustice issue in which the Titans and/or Superboy are shown or mentioned, 'coz this is too interesting to just stick on an annual and then move on without ever coming back to it.

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#2 Posted by stephens2177 (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

Start a thread on the CBR forum about this

Awesome an simony error how they're gonna kill him off,hopefully not like poor kyle or Billy

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#3 Edited by PRgirl94 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

Start a thread on the CBR forum about this

Awesome an simony error how they're gonna kill him off,hopefully not like poor kyle or Billy

What do you mean by "an simony error"? And like I said on the CBR forum, they don't necessarily have to kill him off. I don't even think that Superman ever finds about him by the time of the game, considering that, if the Titans are alive at this time, the Regime wouldn't know, as Cyborg said that most of the Titans died in the Metropolis incident. That being said, if they don't kill him off, this Injustice version of him could be used in the sequel game.

By the way, I'm surprised that I've started putting up these threads 2 weeks ago and it still hasn't gotten very many people talking. I thought that more people would be intrigued by this, considering how much of an impact the mere implication of this Superboy's existence would have on the storyline if people in-universe knew about him, especially if his origins are anything like what I speculated (though I think it more likely that we're gonna have to wait for the sequel game for him to have an actually big impact on the Injustice universe).

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#4 Posted by Glarinetta (658 posts) - - Show Bio

Woah, this will be interesting.

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#5 Posted by Glarinetta (658 posts) - - Show Bio

And yes, Superboy being cloned from Superman's dead baby would be very interesting (or just somehow related to Lois). :D I just don't see Lex being the other donor in this universe.

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#6 Posted by stephens2177 (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

That would wreck havoc on supermans mind if he found out kon was a clone of his dead child maybe even have lex create him.

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#7 Edited by PRgirl94 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177 said:

That would wreck havoc on supermans mind if he found out kon was a clone of his dead child maybe even have lex create him.

If this Superboy is a clone of Superman's dead unborn baby, then he would have to have been created during Year One after the Metropolis incident (which I'm sure that he at least was discovered during Year One anyways, as I doubt that Superman would have grieved as he did if he knew that he had some sort of family alive). And as I said, in this universe, Lex is a good guy and Superman's friend (at least before the Metropolis incident) and he was either stuck in a bunker in Metropolis or working with Superman during Year One. This all being considered, I doubt that Lex would have had anything to do with Superboy's origins.

As for Superman finding about Kon being a clone of his baby, yes, I agree that that would blow his mind. But I doubt that it's gonna happen or that Superman's even gonna find out that Kon exists by the time of the game because I'm sure that it would have too much of an impact on Superman to be ignored in the game and it would also have to mean that the Regime finds out about the Titans being alive, which can't happen because, like I said, during the time of the game, Cyborg thinks that most of the Titans died in the Metropolis incident. I'm pretty sure that during the time of the comics, the only people who are going to know about Superboy's existence are going to be the Titans and whoever is supporting them (which may or may not be the Insurgency, though I doubt that it's gonna be likely).

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#8 Posted by stephens2177 (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

You know if you took the new 52 origin of future lois and Clark baby,aand put it with convergence post Flashpoint lois and Clark having a baby,tthen add that lois and Clarks baby died in DC is really pushing them having a baby aren't course 2 out of 3 times so far turned out bad.

I don't see how kon being a clone of their baby couldn't be created by lex regardless of what side lex was on at the time.etime.either he made him to help his friend or because he knew only a son of lois with the power of a superman could stop him.

Oh and this wouldn't be the first time a clone was cooking,or even left for dead by lex,rremember new 52 bizzaro,and YJ shows Match.

They don't really need to be consistent with his look or personality(because its a different universe and situation),bUT they should be consistent with his powers.

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#9 Edited by PRgirl94 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177 said:

You know if you took the new 52 origin of future lois and Clark baby,aand put it with convergence post Flashpoint lois and Clark having a baby,tthen add that lois and Clarks baby died in DC is really pushing them having a baby aren't course 2 out of 3 times so far turned out bad.

I don't see how kon being a clone of their baby couldn't be created by lex regardless of what side lex was on at the time.etime.either he made him to help his friend or because he knew only a son of lois with the power of a superman could stop him.

Oh and this wouldn't be the first time a clone was cooking,or even left for dead by lex,rremember new 52 bizzaro,and YJ shows Match.

They don't really need to be consistent with his look or personality(because its a different universe and situation),bUT they should be consistent with his powers.

Well, there are a few problems with this version of Lex being involved with Superboy being cloned from Superman and Lois's baby, some of which I had already pointed out and I had hoped that you had paid attention to:

1. Cloning Superman's dead unborn baby means having to desecrate Lois's corpse and steal some of the baby's tissue, something that I doubt that a friend and/or ally of Superman would be willing to involve himself in, as he would know that Superman would have a problem with it if it was discovered, especially if the clone is going to have been force-grown to the physical age of a teenager, which is obviously going to have to happen if Superboy is going to have been created and become a Titan during Year One. And if this is all really gonna happen, it clearly has to have been done behind Superman's back, for practical reasons in the case of the people who create Superboy and for narrative reasons in the case of the writers.

2. As for Lex, as I mentioned, he was stuck in a bunker for a while after the Metropolis incident, specifically a month, and then after that, he started supporting Superman and his team in their crusade and clearly didn't become a mole for the Insurgency until after the exposure of Martian Manhunter in disguise as Hawkgirl, which was very late into Year One. Also as I mentioned, if Superboy is going to be a clone of the baby, that means that whoever was involved in his creation had to have started the process after the Metropolis incident, as it's very unlikely that anyone even knew about Lois's pregnancy until that night when she was kidnapped by the Joker, and that they would have had to start working very soon after the baby's death in order to be able to get a fresh DNA sample that wouldn't have decayed too much. And either way, it's clear from the interview that the Titans story is going to start at the beginning of Year One and that Superboy is going to be a huge part of it, meaning that if he was cloned from the baby, he would have to have been created, discovered, and accepted into the Titans very soon after the Metropolis incident for narrative reasons.

This all being considered, the chances of Lex being involved in cloning Superboy from the DNA of Superman and Lois's dead unborn baby are very slim. I think it more likely that whoever creates Superboy are going to be people who are more in opposition to Superman (highly unlikely to be the Insurgency), either a government organization doing it for the sake of national security or a criminal organization doing it for their own shady agenda.

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#10 Posted by stephens2177 (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

@prgirl94: I know I don't have to remind you,mme and you are almost always 100% wrong with our so be ready to be just as wrong as I am.

Lex in every universe always has a secret motive,eeven when he is good.he could be friends with him to his face and plotting against him behind his back.

Oh and me bringing lex into this isn't me trying to predict the future,but more to tie all star superman,new 52 jon,geoffs kon,YJs kon all together so it seems at least slightly consistent to readers or watchers who follow one outlet but not others,i want 1 origin,1 set of powers,1 personality,and 1 look for Kon across all outlets,and as a Kon fan who wants kon to stick around and actually thrive you should want that too.

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#11 Edited by PRgirl94 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: I understand that you want consistency for Kon's origin in all outlets, and I would like that too. However, with this kind of context in this kind of universe, I don't think that that's gonna be possible in this case. And I know that I could be wrong about this whole "Kon being a clone of Superman's dead unborn baby" theory, but considering how they seem to be putting a lot of the New 52 into this universe and how this might be the closest thing that they can get to his New 52 origins in this universe without all the time travel and convolution, it seems very likely and I personally hope that they go with it 'coz it would be an interesting way to connect Superboy's origin with the catalyst of this whole series.

But whatever origin they give him, the context of this universe and common sense dictates that it's highly unlikely that this version of Lex would have been involved in it. We can't go by what we've seen with other versions of Lex Luthor; this is a very different version, one who's never indulged in law-breaking. The only secret motives that would seem to get him to plot against Superman would be to help the Insurgency, and he really proved that in the game when he sacrificed himself to save Batman and try to take down Superman. This is exactly why I was confused when Buccellato mentioned Superboy in the interview. But then Superlad reminded me in the CBR thread that Lex wasn't involved in Superboy's initial origins and he wasn't involved in Superboy's New 52 origins, so he doesn't necessarily have to be involved in this Injustice Superboy's origins.

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#12 Posted by stephens2177 (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

Either way I can't wait to see what this kon is like.

Oh and wouldnt be cool if DC really did know what they were doing with him,aand actually had a plan?

I always thought it would have been cool,bbut highly improbable that jon (the kid who DC won't erase) was actually the post Flashpoints lois and Clarks baby,tthat way when Harvest(tthe other one DC won't erase)crated kon from jon he could have a link to the old universe,bbut also when he added new 52s lois's dna that's where that extra 10% came from,ccause she had brainiac all up in her,aand that could have easily passed on to kon.maybe that's why he was plucked from kryptons destruction and made into a avatar or herald,mmaybe he was picked because of his natural ease within him to travel the multiverse.

just a thought

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#13 Posted by PRgirl94 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: I can't wait either. And I also can't wait to see what the Titans are like, who's gonna be in the roster (pretty sure it's gonna include Tim Drake/Red Robin; he's the only Robin other than Jason Todd who hasn't been mentioned or shown and between those two, Tim's the one with the longer history with the Titans), how they're gonna operate. Considering how they haven't been shown or mentioned until now and the Regime (or at least Cyborg) seems to think that they're dead, I'm pretty sure that they're gonna be operating covertly like they did on the "Young Justice" TV show (which, being a Young Justice fan, I'm hoping for). I'm also interested to see where they stand in regards to the Regime and the civil war between the adult heroes. I doubt that any of them would actually be on board with the Regime, or else at least one would have been seen joining them during those 3 years like Damian did, and if Red Robin is included, he definitely would want to side with Batman. However, I can imagine some of them having mixed feelings about having to oppose their former mentors and I'm pretty sure that Superboy in particular is heart-broken about seeing his namesake act like a Nazi, especially if he is the clone of Superman's dead unborn son. I doubt that they'll have much of an impact on the Injustice storyline, but again, I hope that this isn't the only issue in which we see or hear about them, and more importantly, I hope that they (especially Superboy and Red Robin) make it to the events in the game and that they have a chance to play an important role in the sequel game.

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#15 Posted by PRgirl94 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: I just had a Twitter chat with Brian Buccellato himself and it turns out that you were right. I at first asked him for some hints as to what this version of Superboy was like and how he was created and he said, in these exact words, "he's the more classic pre52 version. With the black t-shirt :)". I then asked him, "But if Lex Luthor's a good guy, how would he have been involved in Superboy's creation? Was he even involved in any way?". He replied to that, in two separate tweets, "just because he's a good guy doesn't mean he's not Lex. Lex could find noble justification for many things. He's. Lex. :)" and "it's not touched upon in the story, so you'll just have to take my word that lex was involved and felt it was for a noble reason".

From that, it's clear that this Superboy will be mostly like his pre-New 52 version and that Lex will somehow have been involved in his creation for what he felt was a noble reason. As for his genetic origins, I'm still not so sure about them being exactly like the pre-New 52 version. It can be implied from Buccellato's tweets that he is going with that "Superman/Lex Luthor hybrid origin", but noble reason or not, I still don't see this version of Lex wanting to create an illegitimate "genetic lovechild" of himself and his best friend, especially if he had known Superman's secret identity for years and thus, knew that Superman was married before the Metropolis incident or was grieving for Lois afterwards. If Buccellato doesn't give an answer to this that explicitly confirms this origin, it still leaves open the possibility of Superboy somehow actually still having that "clone of Superman's dead unborn baby" origin (kind of like what you said). But we'll have to wait and see. If his exact genetic origins aren't touched upon in the comic, like Buccellato implies in his last tweet, he can always change them later.

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#16 Posted by Glarinetta (658 posts) - - Show Bio

... I hate Injustice writers so much right now.

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#17 Posted by stephens2177 (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

I think kon was written pretty well here,he has high morals and actually holds himself and Superman to them,he has friends that respect him and he cares deeply for.

I liked his look here better with the 2 wrist bands and boots tHan both geoffs version and YJs 1st seasons look

He was shown powerful enough to take a point blank nuclear blast,bUT still not powerful as superan

I liked that the Kents were there for him,aand called conner.

I even liked that his origin and powers were either not shown or vague so that you can fill in what you want them to be.

The only thing in didn't like is that TTK was never shown,wwhich would have come in handy to save gar.

I liked that they left there a way for Kon and the Titans to comeback and "maybe" be used in another game

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#18 Posted by Glarinetta (658 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Superboy was perfect, but how they added the Titans into the story. They chose to ignore all other things. They have been never even mentioned in main story, and Superman wasn't that cruel in year 1. And isn't this whole thing haven't been that Superman wanted someone like him? So there where someone like him (almost, but no, he throws him and punch of other kids into phantom zone.

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#19 Posted by stephens2177 (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

they took a Lil inconsistency for wanting to put superboy and the Titans on the table for future stories and games.

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#20 Edited by PRgirl94 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177 said:

they took a Lil inconsistency for wanting to put superboy and the Titans on the table for future stories and games.

That's the thing, though. That's what you and Superlad aren't understanding on the CBR thread. This Titans story is just too much of a mess continuity-wise, so much that 4 reviewers (Batman News, Superman Homepage, IGN, Off To The Comic Store) and a bunch of commenters on some of those sites and others have noticed, more so when I point out stuff to them, and so much that even Buccellato himself can't seem to rationalize this story with the rest of the continuity. And if he can't reconcile this story with the rest of canon and he truly intends to "honor all that's come before", as he says that he hopes to in this interview, then he's gonna do what most writers do with these sorts of stories. He's gonna clean up all the mess that was caused by this story by officially throwing it all into the discontinuity bin or, at the very least, he's gonna go on with the rest of the comic series as if this story was never written, never again touching upon any part of this story in his future stories. Either way, these inconsistencies aren't "retcons" that you should expect to stick, meaning that we might as well be back to square one when it comes to Superboy and the Titans in this continuity.

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#21 Posted by stephens2177 (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you honestly believe that this not reconciling with the story so far would really stop them from using kon or the Titans seriously?

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#22 Edited by PRgirl94 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: What I'm saying is that we shouldn't be expecting to see more of Superboy or the Titans in the Injustice continuity any time soon and that even if they do show up, we shouldn't expect them to have exactly the history and characteristics of these versions of them as they were portrayed in the annual. Not if Buccellato really wants to remain true to his word and honor all the continuity and characterization that was established by previous writers. I've already explained why, but check out those reviews and comments that I've cited for further understanding.

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#23 Posted by RyDub (194 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought it was basically the same exact universe as the main universe except at the point of Jokers plan, in the injustice universe Jokers plans succeeded and in the main universe it fails so everything up to that point is the same.

@prgirl94 said:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/12/writer-brian-buccellato-teases-whats-to-come-in-injustice-year-four

IGN: How doe the Year Three Annual relate to the core series? Is it similar to past annuals in that it tells side-stories taking place during that year?

Buccellato: I wanted to tell the story of what happened to the TEEN TITANS and specifically, Superboy. So it is a YEAR ONE tale that takes us back to the beginning.

(underline added for emphasis)

Um, okay, WHAT?! Superboy existing in the Injustice universe?! As in a version of Kon-El?! How did this happen? How is this possible if the Lex Luthor in that universe is a good guy and is Superman's friend? He obviously existed at least since Year 1. So where has he been this whole time with this whole craziness? How is it that he hasn't been seen interacting with this universe's Superman? Why has Superman been grieving over the lost chance to meet another Kryptonian with his unborn baby's death if we have Superboy existing at that time? Does he even know about this kid? Are they even related by blood? What are his new origins in this universe? How is it that he's with the Titans? And what does he think about this whole regime?

So many questions; hopefully this annual answers most, if not all, of them. Either way, I hope that this isn't just something that they address for this issue only and then never mention again. That would be so lame. I've got a lot of theories about how this whole thing has happened, but I'd like to hear your thoughts about this.

Personally, I hope that his origins aren't as simple as him being a pure Superman clone or not being related to Superman by blood at all, though not as convoluted as the New 52 origin. I like a good balance of intricacy and comprehensibility when it comes to storytelling, especially with character origins. I hope that he will be a Kryptonian/human hybrid again, though I don't think that the human side is likely to come from Lex Luthor, considering that Luthor was never Superman's enemy in this universe. I honestly think that it would be really interesting if he turned out to be a clone of Superman and Lois's dead unborn baby, though that would be tragic and considering the context of the game, it would have to mean that Superman never finds out about his existence or else he does find out and Kon either dies or fakes his own death. But who knows? The Titans section is probably not gonna take up a lot of space in the annual, though I'm sure that they will be an important part of it and that Superboy will be a huge part of the Titans story, considering that the writer mentioned him specifically. Again, I just hope that this isn't the only Injustice issue in which the Titans and/or Superboy are shown or mentioned, 'coz this is too interesting to just stick on an annual and then move on without ever coming back to it.

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#24 Posted by Glarinetta (658 posts) - - Show Bio

@rydub said:

I thought it was basically the same exact universe as the main universe except at the point of Jokers plan, in the injustice universe Jokers plans succeeded and in the main universe it fails so everything up to that point is the same.

@prgirl94 said:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/12/writer-brian-buccellato-teases-whats-to-come-in-injustice-year-four

IGN: How doe the Year Three Annual relate to the core series? Is it similar to past annuals in that it tells side-stories taking place during that year?

Buccellato: I wanted to tell the story of what happened to the TEEN TITANS and specifically, Superboy. So it is a YEAR ONE tale that takes us back to the beginning.

(underline added for emphasis)

Um, okay, WHAT?! Superboy existing in the Injustice universe?! As in a version of Kon-El?! How did this happen? How is this possible if the Lex Luthor in that universe is a good guy and is Superman's friend? He obviously existed at least since Year 1. So where has he been this whole time with this whole craziness? How is it that he hasn't been seen interacting with this universe's Superman? Why has Superman been grieving over the lost chance to meet another Kryptonian with his unborn baby's death if we have Superboy existing at that time? Does he even know about this kid? Are they even related by blood? What are his new origins in this universe? How is it that he's with the Titans? And what does he think about this whole regime?

So many questions; hopefully this annual answers most, if not all, of them. Either way, I hope that this isn't just something that they address for this issue only and then never mention again. That would be so lame. I've got a lot of theories about how this whole thing has happened, but I'd like to hear your thoughts about this.

Personally, I hope that his origins aren't as simple as him being a pure Superman clone or not being related to Superman by blood at all, though not as convoluted as the New 52 origin. I like a good balance of intricacy and comprehensibility when it comes to storytelling, especially with character origins. I hope that he will be a Kryptonian/human hybrid again, though I don't think that the human side is likely to come from Lex Luthor, considering that Luthor was never Superman's enemy in this universe. I honestly think that it would be really interesting if he turned out to be a clone of Superman and Lois's dead unborn baby, though that would be tragic and considering the context of the game, it would have to mean that Superman never finds out about his existence or else he does find out and Kon either dies or fakes his own death. But who knows? The Titans section is probably not gonna take up a lot of space in the annual, though I'm sure that they will be an important part of it and that Superboy will be a huge part of the Titans story, considering that the writer mentioned him specifically. Again, I just hope that this isn't the only Injustice issue in which the Titans and/or Superboy are shown or mentioned, 'coz this is too interesting to just stick on an annual and then move on without ever coming back to it.

It's terrible how they added him. Believe me.

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#25 Posted by stephens2177 (1396 posts) - - Show Bio

Kon could be a clone of clark and loiss "first" child in every universe,Injustice,and the regular universe kon from the Convergence pre Flashpoint superman and loiss son.heck that way they could bring back the old idea of superman having a aura around him,and kons TTK from that,just for that kon.

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