He killed Hitler?

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Giuseppe Riccadonna

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For real? Seriously I need a scan of this. I just read on Wikipedia that in marvel continuity that the Human torch killed Hitler.
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Sparda

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#2  Edited By Sparda
@Giuseppe Riccadonna said:
" For real? Seriously I need a scan of this. I just read on Wikipedia that in marvel continuity that the Human torch killed Hitler. "
He accidentally blew him up/lit him on fire, IIRC. I have the comic, but I don't have the scans for it. I think he was trying to get into Hitler's bunker or something and blew up the wall, but Hitler was on the other side and he burned to death. Or some-such. It's been a while.
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Giuseppe Riccadonna

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@Sparda said:
" @Giuseppe Riccadonna said:
" For real? Seriously I need a scan of this. I just read on Wikipedia that in marvel continuity that the Human torch killed Hitler. "
He accidentally blew him up/lit him on fire, IIRC. I have the comic, but I don't have the scans for it. I think he was trying to get into Hitler's bunker or something and blew up the wall, but Hitler was on the other side and he burned to death. Or some-such. It's been a while. "

On Wiki it said the Torch Told Hitler he could surreneder to the Americans or the Russians and Hitler decided to shoot torch and Torch set him on fire.
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Sparda

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#5  Edited By Sparda
@Giuseppe Riccadonna said:

" @Sparda said:

" @Giuseppe Riccadonna said:
" For real? Seriously I need a scan of this. I just read on Wikipedia that in marvel continuity that the Human torch killed Hitler. "
He accidentally blew him up/lit him on fire, IIRC. I have the comic, but I don't have the scans for it. I think he was trying to get into Hitler's bunker or something and blew up the wall, but Hitler was on the other side and he burned to death. Or some-such. It's been a while. "
On Wiki it said the Torch Told Hitler he could surreneder to the Americans or the Russians and Hitler decided to shoot torch and Torch set him on fire. "
That sounds about right.
 
All I really remember is Torch standing over Hitler who was on fire, and then he booked it out of there and everybody just chalked it up to suicide.
 
This was, of course, the original HT, not Johnny Storm. As I'm sure you already knew (duh).
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welcome to the paradox
 
Nick Fury attempts to kill Hitler. doesnt happen...

No Caption Provided

..but Hammond did...
No Caption Provided

...or did Barnes?
No Caption Provided
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Giuseppe Riccadonna

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@CATMANEXE:
Oh sh!t I forgot Barnes said he killed hitler. Now, That's weird. But YES! Thanks for the scan. needed that.
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it makes it even more interesting of a topic. 
because now the question is who really did it and why ?
Barnes or Hammond? do we call them both right and Barnes's
is the retcon, or does that eliminate Torch's own history in the process?

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9th Wonder

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#9  Edited By 9th Wonder
@CATMANEXE said:
" it makes it even more interesting of a topic.  because now the question is who really did it and why ? Barnes or Hammond? do we call them both right and Barnes's is the retcon, or does that eliminate Torch's own history in the process? "
Hammond killed Hitler and Bendis f#cked it up.He need to learn to read Marvel Comics before writing them.
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@9th Wonder: great, thanks.
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Giuseppe Riccadonna

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@CATMANEXE:
I agree with 9th wonder (mostly). I like Bendis but I think he made a mistake.
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Marshal Victory

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#12  Edited By Marshal Victory
@CATMANEXE said:
"it makes it even more interesting of a topic.  because now the question is who really did it and why ? Barnes or Hammond? do we call them both right and Barnes's is the retcon, or does that eliminate Torch's own history in the process? "

Actualy it can be both.Body doubles an such .An its posible winter soilder nailed a clone in his past to.We dont know all of his past druing that time frame do we?
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@Marshal Victory: 
this is what im researching at the moment to get to the bottom of. there were several instances in Marvel canon
where Hitler had doubles and clones in his place. another person on a different forum is claiming the incident happened
in a comic in or around 1944. trying to dig and locate said incident if it exists and was canon. as far as what we know, much.
heres a good summary of Hitlers entire history and appearances in a Marvel comic. could even have been a What If? for all
thats known at this point. also the possibility exists that this was Nazi X/Hate-Monger, who is Hitlers continuation after death, 
or something i possibly missed during a cosmic cube incident even, like in Avengers/Invaders. also looking at the fact
that everything prior to Avengers #1 was retro-retconned. at the moment in reading im counting at least 4 different incidents 
in which Hitler died in canon Golden/Silver Age, most of them seem to occur at the historical moment of Hitlers death, as well
as two different accounts of how the Hammond incident went.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/hitlerad.htm
 

@Giuseppe Riccadonna:


he made no real point to agree with. he bitched about Bendis but did it at me. if he has some kind of
personal problem he needs to address that with Bendis via a letter or online and not to me.
trust me when i say ive read and had said to me " Bendis is a bad writer " well over 200 times
in over the past month. truth is i dont care, and shouldnt be expected to, no less than i should be
bombarded with opinions of Sentry, Ares, MacGargan, Daken, Bendis, Fraction, Way, Deadpool,
Morrison, or any other. im not the one responsible for what they do, and im a little tired of having
animosity towards them directed at me, in no less than the threats i received the past two days for saying
i liked Daken. k? second off the whole point of the conversation is to find the hard information and
prove whats what, not assume it. this very thread started by questioning whether Hammond really had or not
given wikipedias often times lack of credibility. we try to find out the hard facts on issues here to keep up with the 
reputation that comcivines character bio's are the best, most informative and most accurate.
 

 

@anyone:

 
while were here on the subject, anyone have the scan were Bucky gives Hitler a raspberry (All Winners Squad #1)
and the time he mooned Hitler (on a cover i think). thanks.
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Giuseppe Riccadonna

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@CATMANEXE:
Jeez man. I never said I didn't like Bendis. I do like him. I just meant that I think he made a mistake... Lol
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Marshal Victory

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#15  Edited By Marshal Victory
@CATMANEXE:
Yeah im not finding any thing.Its posible Bucky is Mistaken from the brain washing.ITs posible he did as winter soilder kill one of the clones.  http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/hitlerad.htm   this goes back to 2006 updated an lists almost every apearance of hitler an clones an such.Thiers alot untold stuff .Maybe that will be shown later.It wasnt reveiled public that torch 1 killed him that i can find.So i dont get the unbelevable look almost like so what from the avengers in that page either.
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#16  Edited By TheBlueAngel93
@CATMANEXE said:
"welcome to the paradox
 
Nick Fury attempts to kill Hitler. doesnt happen...

 
 

..but Hammond did...
 
 

...or did Barnes?
 
 
"
I believe the Barnes one more then anything, his background as a mind controled killer supports his clam. I don't buy that the Torch would do anything like that.
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Giuseppe Riccadonna

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@War Killer said:
"@CATMANEXE said:
"welcome to the paradox
 
Nick Fury attempts to kill Hitler. doesnt happen...

 
 

..but Hammond did...
 
 

...or did Barnes?
 
 
"
I believe the Barnes one more then anything, his background as a mind controled killer supports his clam. I don't buy that the Torch would do anything like that. "

War will do crazy things to someone. Even Superheroes.
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TheBlueAngel93

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#18  Edited By TheBlueAngel93
@Giuseppe Riccadonna said:
"@War Killer said:
"@CATMANEXE said:
"welcome to the paradox
 
Nick Fury attempts to kill Hitler. doesnt happen...

 
 

..but Hammond did...
 
 

...or did Barnes?
 
 
"
I believe the Barnes one more then anything, his background as a mind controled killer supports his clam. I don't buy that the Torch would do anything like that. "
War will do crazy things to someone. Even Superheroes. "
Some can argue this, but what makes this believeable is that he wasn't a superhero, he was a soldier.
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G'bandit

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#19  Edited By G'bandit

I KILLED HITLER!!!!!!!! 
 
He owed me 12 bucks!

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Giuseppe Riccadonna

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@G'bandit said:

"I KILLED HITLER!!!!!!!!   He owed me 12 bucks! "


WELL HE OWED ME 3.FITTY.
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@Marshal Victory: 
Its a tough one. like i said i dont like ruling things out...just because.
and for some reason i remember this recently but cant put my finger on it.
also its notable to be correct here. Hammond didnt kill Hitler in that outright.
he brought him near to death, as we can all see Hitler dying isnt on panel, 
just getting burned at least. the story is supposed to be their that Hitler 
died afterwords (possibly from the burns, but is the reason ever really shown?),
and he tells his guys to make the public believe this was a suicide, then he's dead. 
and theres the whole other parts about A.) Hitler has died in canon from other causes,
B.) the golden and silver ages barely resembled any continuity as it was, especially the
old war comics, and almost all of that stuff has been retconned now.
im still of the idea that Bucky took out a reborn Hitler. i thought it was Nazi X personally,
but cant place it. I dunno, but im interested now, probably going to go back and look at Bucky's 
more recent exploits again, especially ones involving Zola and see what comes up. couldve been 
some 1 panel thing, but if its not in the marvunapp, theres a good chance thats because it was something
recent as they seem to have either slowed down or stopped on doing updates there. finding out whether Bucky
did in fact, and when and how, and whether Hammonds account is still holding water or not are interesting if
you ask me, not to mention give me an excuse for reading a lot of good comics.
 
@War Killer:
i have to agree 100% about that being out of character for Hammond.
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Marshal Victory

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#22  Edited By Marshal Victory
@CATMANEXE:
Yeah but he gave him no choice he as noted could not burn the switch.1 life or thousands. 
I still say it can be both.Now if i recall right Hate monger put his spirit into a unfinished cube an it driove him crazy.an theirs a instance where Bucky crushes a cube an teleports from cap.If that was the same cube he did kill hitler.Best guess i can think off from what i have read.
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#23  Edited By Erik

It just makes more sense to me that Bucky did it. I chose to trust his scan. Besides, he would never take credit away from his friend anyway. 

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@Marshal Victory: 
 im pretty sure Hammond could have just grabbed him there
and held his arm since he was right next to him. didnt need to torture the guy to
his death.lol. but i guess the writer thought it would look cool or something so there it is.
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#25  Edited By TheBlueAngel93
@Marshal Victory said:
"@CATMANEXE: Yeah but he gave him no choice he as noted could not burn the switch.1 life or thousands. I still say it can be both.Now if i recall right Hate monger put his spirit into a unfinished cube an it driove him crazy.an theirs a instance where Bucky crushes a cube an teleports from cap.If that was the same cube he did kill hitler.Best guess i can think off from what i have read. "
Actually, if you read the recent Mighty Avengers issue, what was left of that cube Bucky destroyed was placed in Project P.E.G.A.S.U.S., where Absorbing Man absorb fragments of the cube itself.
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Marshal Victory

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#26  Edited By Marshal Victory
@War Killer said:
"@Marshal Victory said:
"@CATMANEXE: Yeah but he gave him no choice he as noted could not burn the switch.1 life or thousands. I still say it can be both.Now if i recall right Hate monger put his spirit into a unfinished cube an it driove him crazy.an theirs a instance where Bucky crushes a cube an teleports from cap.If that was the same cube he did kill hitler.Best guess i can think off from what i have read. "
Actually, if you read the recent Mighty Avengers issue, what was left of that cube Bucky destroyed was placed in Project P.E.G.A.S.U.S., where Absorbing Man absorb fragments of the cube itself. "
   Do we know where the cube came from to begin with?I rember something about a mas bombing to power a cube but could it have ben the one hate monger was traped in?
 

@CATMANEXE:

Posibly but if he risked a grab he would risk also pushing the button faster to shoot flames!In pain he would pull from it. 
 
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TheBlueAngel93

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#27  Edited By TheBlueAngel93

@Marshal Victory said:

"@War Killer said:
"@Marshal Victory said:
"@CATMANEXE: Yeah but he gave him no choice he as noted could not burn the switch.1 life or thousands. I still say it can be both.Now if i recall right Hate monger put his spirit into a unfinished cube an it driove him crazy.an theirs a instance where Bucky crushes a cube an teleports from cap.If that was the same cube he did kill hitler.Best guess i can think off from what i have read. "
Actually, if you read the recent Mighty Avengers issue, what was left of that cube Bucky destroyed was placed in Project P.E.G.A.S.U.S., where Absorbing Man absorb fragments of the cube itself. "
   Do we know where the cube came from to begin with?I rember something about a mas bombing to power a cube but could it have ben the one hate monger was traped in?
 

@CATMANEXE:
Posibly but if he risked a grab he would risk also pushing the button faster to shoot flames!In pain he would pull from it.   "

Reading the MA issue now, it says it was the fragments of the Cosmic Cube Captain America destroyed in West Virginia.

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whirlwind6

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#28  Edited By whirlwind6

I have an issue we're it's told a bit differently.... 
SAGA OF THE ORGINAL HUMAN TORCH #3 (out of 4)

I think it came out in 1990, or somthing like that... 
Anyway, it's written by Roy Thomas, and he's kinda the last word when it comes to Marvel's golden age. 
The Torch confronts Hitler in the bunker and fries him ( while Toro just watches).  It's as simple as that... seriously!!!! 
On a side note, Bucky has struck me as dilussional ever since Cap kicked the bucket, so maybe he's just trying to deal with his infereority complex by stating the one accomplishment Cap dosen't have and crediting himself with it....    

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#29  Edited By namorsubby


the torch is actually depicted killing Hitler, so naturally I am more inclined to believe him.lol  
 
Hammond is no cold-blood killer, but he can and has kiilled before. He killed the man who shot his partner, Toro. He also has recently threatened to destroy the Earth, That is, if The Mad Thinker had infected all of it's life with his mind-control
 
edit: 
He is also depicted dying, not just Hammond setting him ablaze, here: 

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Torch_Saga_03_05.jpg 
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Torch_Saga_03_06.jpg    
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#30  Edited By Lokheit

There is stated that his consciousness was transfered to a cloned brain by arnim zola, so maybe hammond killed the original hitler, but the one who killed this clone with the original consciousness was bucky, so both killed hitler in fact.

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#31  Edited By brc2000

The most recent issue of the Torch mini shows Hammond setting Hitler on fire in a flashback sequence.

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Vision2.0

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#32  Edited By Vision2.0

.....

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#33  Edited By scourgexlvii
@Marshal Victory said:

" @CATMANEXE said:

"it makes it even more interesting of a topic.  because now the question is who really did it and why ? Barnes or Hammond? do we call them both right and Barnes's is the retcon, or does that eliminate Torch's own history in the process? "
Actualy it can be both.Body doubles an such .An its posible winter soilder nailed a clone in his past to.We dont know all of his past druing that time frame do we? "
or could it be: [img]http://cdn-www.cracked.com/phpimages/article/0/7/6/4076.jpg[/img]
Twin Clones of Hitler...? Sadly though, it's from Superman at Earth's End, but I could see something like that happening. Didn't Hydra have a plan once to clone Hitler and transplant his consciousness? Honestly though, I'd put it in the realm of "not worth losing sleep over" and just move on.
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Metatron_Da_Don

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#34  Edited By Metatron_Da_Don

hammndkillsHitler1
hammndkillsHitler1


hammndkillsHitler2
hammndkillsHitler2
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Metatron_Da_Don

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#35  Edited By Metatron_Da_Don

yes and he deserved it

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gambit987

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#36  Edited By gambit987

nobody killed Hitler, he is still alive, he went to the DC universe changed his moustache and became sinestro!!!!!

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#37  Edited By turoksonofstone

Yes, GA torch BBQ'D Hitler. GA Amazing Man attacked the white House when he was in a crappy mood. GA stories rule.

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