Iron Man vs Mid-Tiers

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#1 Edited by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is basically designed to prove that Iron Man is above the mid-tier range. This thread will consist of scans, showings, and feats that demonstrate Iron Man's superiority over many mid-tiers. If I left out any instances I encourage others to add some. You can add showings that prove Tony's offensive AND/OR defensive output is above that of other mid-tiers. I primarily posted offensive feats, but defensive ones are good too (like how Iron Man tanked the very same hit from Wrecker which crippled Colossus for several issues). It is likely that I will edit this original post to add in more instances.

Before we start, I think it's important to define what a mid-tier is. A character like Ms. Marvel, Colossus, Cyborg, She-Hulk, Doc Samson, Moonstone, Thing, Namor, Vision, Storm, Captain Britain, etc. are examples of mid-tiers. These are characters in between street levelers and high tiers.

I also want to establish the fact that Iron Man hates killing and has different power settings on his armor. Unless there is some kind of extenuating circumstances, Iron Man is NEVER punching/blasting with the intention to injure or kill. Especially against allies/friends. If he's mind-controlled or there is clear writer intention that he's going all out, then that's a different story. Being angry or going up against an opponent that he knows is above his power level also is not a guarantee that he's using his full powered or all out attacks. For example, Tony has claimed on two separate occasions that he's subconsciously held back against the Hulk in the past because he knows there is still a good man inside. For the visual learners out there:

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Here are also some scans that prove he has power variability with his repulsors and strength:

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It's clear that he can vary how much force or power he throws out there and that he uses more or less depending on the character or situation he's facing.

Basically, my intention here is to show that there is usually a reason that one minute he's punching or blasting bank robbers, Captain America, or Spider-Man and then the other minute drawing blood from Sentry, one-shotting She-Hulk, destroying mountains, or knocking out Thor villains.

Colossus

The first scan is actually War Machine owning Colossus, but he's slightly below Iron Man anyway so I think it's relevant. War Machine blitzes Colossus through some trees and then sends him flying into a rock formation. At first glance, it doesn't look that impressive, but since he was out of the picture for around 4-5 pages, I think it's safe to assume that he was actually briefly KO'd by this attack. War Machine then goes on to fight and stomp Storm before Colossus gets a chance to interrupt. He wasn't really BFR'd and he wouldn't have let Storm fight Rhodey alone. The second scan shown is of classic Iron Man one-shotting Colossus with a casual repulsor ray. Colossus wakes up two pages later, but he's still woozy from the blast and struggles to talk, let alone stand up. It should be noted that Colossus just got done casually defeating She-Hulk too which makes Iron Man look that much higher than them all. The third scan does not show Colossus, but the Wrecker being one-shotted by Iron Man after taking his best shot at him. The Wrecker's durability isn't much to laugh at since he's tanked hits from Hulk, Hercules, Thor, Captain Britain, and even Beta Ray Bill. Although it should be noted that he damaged/dented the armor, they were basically cosmetic damages and kept the man inside safe (note: Rhodes did feel pain from the blow). The fourth scan shows what happened to Colossus after being smacked by the Wrecker.

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The difference in durability between Piotr and Iron Man is clearly evident when comparing the last two scans.

He's also tanked a slam from Colossus without any damage or pain:

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Kitty Pryde phases through his armor shortly after that making him unable to fight back.

Colossus was also briefly taken out by a concussion beam from a Shaw Industries tank which was designed from the same principles of Iron Man's repulsor rays.

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Not only does he scream out loudly in pain, but a soldier comments afterwards saying, "that's one down". Piotr is not seen for several pages after this.

I highly doubt a tank has as much firepower as Tony's armor and I also doubt that Shaw Industries perfected the repulsor design as well as Stark Industries has.

Next we have Extremis Iron Man casually one-shotting the Inhuman Gorgon (who is a mid-tier himself), while Colossus struggles to KO him for several pages:

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Shows a pretty clear and tremendous gap here in my honest opinion. Gorgon was struggling to stand on his own after a casual repulsor blast from Tony while Piotr had an extended fight with him.

Doc Samson

First of all, in one of Iron Man's first battle encounters with Samson, he managed to tank a cheap-shot from him while Tony and company were busy dealing with the Hulk:

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Iron Man recovers easily and without any damage, as you can see, but what really makes Iron Man look superior in this issue is the fact that Tony later claims that all of the Avengers present (Namor, Hercules, Wonder Man, Iron Man), were more powerful than him and Samson agrees:

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This is the same Samson that went on to fight the Bannerless Hulk to a stalemate for over 6 hours by himself:

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These next set of scans makes Doc Samson, She-Hulk, and Spider-Man all look like chumps.

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Not only does he take down a killer robot capable of tossing around and owning two mid-tiers and a street leveler, but he does this with a drone while shooting a commercial from far away. Funny how Tony no-sold the same energy projection which KO'd Jennifer. It should also be noted that Spider-Man was not only amped by Tony's armor he built for him, but he was also amped by the Other at the time which made his stats so high that he was actually able to beat the snot out of Rhino.

Next up we have Doc Samson, Captain Ultra, and classic Iron Man going up against an Extremis Enhancile (with down syndrome) and as you can see, they struggle greatly against him:

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As you can see, Iron Man is only partially armored and he needs both of them to help, however, it's pretty evident that they both get owned and when Tony is forced to save the day once he suits up:

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Now, yeah his pulse bolt drained his battery, but ultimately he one-shotted the Extremis enhancile when Sampson couldn't. Plus it was one of his oldest armors. In his Extremis armor, he's able to do MUCH better against an Extremis enhancile (who is actually competent with minor training/experience):

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Iron Man goes on to actually kill Mallen and practically claims he was holding back the entire time:

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So again, Doc Samson couldn't even damage someone with these kind of stats outside of drawing blood. Leonard is a guy that was practically made to fight the Hulk. Here is another example of Iron Man stomping Extremis Enhanciles:

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Giants

This section is dedicated to giants. This shows Iron Man's (and War Machine's) superiority over characters with Hank Pym's growth serum (Goliath, Giant-Man, etc.), Frost Giants, Sentinels, and Kree Sentries. These characters become mid-tiers when they reach a certain size since their durability and strength changes based on their proportions.

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Scan 1: War Machine one-shots Giant-Man with electricity; Scan 2: Briefly knocks over and KO's Goliath; Scan 3: Stomps Giant-Man in a sparring match; Scan 4: Knocks out Goliath with pulse bolts; Scan 5: Destroys a Kree Sentry; Scan 6: One-shots and kills Hyrm the frost giant; Scan 6: Blasts a hole through a Sentinel.
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Scan 1: Breaks the grip and hand of a Sentinel; Scan 2: Punches the head off of a Sentinel; Scan 3: Beats down two giant monsters that were destroying a city; Scan 4: Blasts a hole through and breaks a giant mech which was destroying the Brooklyn Bridge.

It should be noted that Goliath has fought and tanked hits from Thor, Wonder Man (he's defeated Simon), and the Hulk. Giant-Man once fought worthy Absorbing Man powered by the Serpent. Kree sentries have tanked hits from She-Hulk, Thing, Namor, Thor, etc. Hyrm survived a multi-mountain busting explosion which brought Thor to his knees in pain (it KO'd him, but didn't kill him like Tony did).

Moonstone

This is a Ms. Marvel-tier villain who was a member of the Dark Avengers and Thunderbolts. She's fought on even terms with Ms. Marvel. After Siege, Moonstone tried to make a run for it, but Iron Man, in his classic armor mind you, one-shots her with a punch:

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Judge Marvel, who got his hands on repulsor technology, one-shots Moonstone. Ghost, an Iron Man villain, even confirms it as such:

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It should be noted that Moonstone and Ms. Marvel have traded blows and were portrayed as equals in her own story:

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This is their first fight.
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Rematch 1
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Rematch 2

The funny thing is that they fought again and Ms. Marvel ended up having to forcibly remove the moonstone from Karla's body in order to effectively defeat her in their rematch. Classic Iron Man one-shotted this character. 'Nuff said.

Ms. Marvel

This next section is pretty long so bear with me on this one.

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Carol has faced the Hulk-Buster before. In fact, she even had an Avengers roster to back her up (She-Hulk, Captain America, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, and Wolverine), yet she, and all the Avengers with her, still got stomped (in some cases, literally).

Iron Man did much better against the HB armor by himself too.

The fact that Carol is essentially spanking the Hulk-Buster Iron Man in Civil War II is horrid writing.

Let's take a look at what happens when Rogue, who at the time had attained Ms. Marvel's powers permanently, was handling Iron Man once her absorbed power from Thor had begun to fade away:

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Not only is Rogue screaming out in pain after being blasted and she was so hurt that she lost her grip of Spider-Woman, but Rogue begins to realize that she's outmatched and that even with Ms. Marvel's powers she has nowhere near the raw power to take down Iron Man so she flees.

She's also been stomped by Grey Gargoyle before as well:

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She slams him into the ground which does absolutely nothing to him. He then proceeds to kick her in the face which one-shots her. Now let's see how many times Iron Man tanks hits from an AMPED Grey Gargoyle. A Gargoyle that had an enchanted indestructible Uru hammer, mind you.

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Granted, his arc reactor did get cracked and damaged after tanking a direct hit from Gargoyle, but that's far more than Carol could handle, clearly.

Now, in regards to current Iron Man and current Ms. Marvel, I can post a couple of instances where Iron Man outshines Carol in performance:

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Ms. Marvel vs Gamora (fails to one-shot Gamora).

Meanwhile, Iron Man handles Gamora pretty easily here:

Casually, too.
Casually, too.

Then we can see how Iron Man's blasting power compares to Carol's blasting power:

Fin Fang Foom no-sells her blast.
Fin Fang Foom no-sells her blast.

And then you have Iron Man blasting him:

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He seems to hurt him a lot more.

The shockwave/indirect effect from his repulsors also managed to make Carol scream out in pain:

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Hell, even the Iron Patriot managed to make Carol scream out in pain with his repulsors:

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The funny thing here is that Norman actually couldn't figure out how to properly power Tony's armors. The Iron Patriot suit was much weaker than any standard or normal Iron Man armor since it didn't have repulsor and arc reactor technology to power it:

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Here is Ms. Marvel and an injured Iron Man taking on War Machine (who is inferior to Iron Man).

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Iron Man fleed to grab a negator pack and you can see how long she lasts without him LOL.

It should be noted that Tony Stark was on doctor's orders to avoid strenuous physical activities and that War Machine didn't feel Ms. Marvel's second hit on him.

In a more recent comic book, War Machine (piloted by the Punisher) was able to take on Ms. Marvel who was actually extremely pissed off at Castle for using her "dead boyfriends toys". Despite being inexperienced and uninformed about her absorption abilities, he still does very well for himself. In fact, they seem to stalemate with Carol fleeing for backup. Here is the full fight:

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Scan 1-2: Carol blasts an unsuspecting Frank Castle with a cheap shot. He doesn't seem to be hurt or damaged, but she seems mad; Scan 3: Carol tries to talk Frank out of the suit which leads to her hitting him with energy. This is either an energy amped punch or blast. Either way, he tanks it like a champ once again. No damage or pain; Scan 4: While simultaneously telling his armor not to hit her with lethal force, he blasts her with repulsor beams which are absorbed by Carol. She then blasts Castle which leads to damage of the armor. Castle attempts to flee; Scan 5: While in the air, they seem to stalemate each other in an energy projection shoot out. Many other heroes take notice of their clash; Scan 6: Carol punches Frank and then guilt trips him about where he stood during the Secret Empire thing. He launches a missile point blank at her face which leads to an explosion which seems to hit them both; Scan 7: Both of them are briefly incapped and free fall from the sky. They both land hard on the ground, but Castle recovers first. He even tells the armor AI that he's ready to keep fighting instead of fleeing; Scan 8: While Daredevil tries to talk Frank out of what he's doing, the AI informs him that Ms. Marvel has fled.

Later, we see that Ms. Marvel leaves the fight in order to get some backup:

Hmmmmmmmmmmm... Now why would Carol need this much backup if she is capable of taking down a Hulk-Buster iteration of Iron Man's all-new self-repairing armor? I mean its one thing to call in Thing or Hercules separately, but bringing them both, in addition to any and all Avengers available, seems a bit much for someone who can supposedly take down Iron Man armors like its nothing. But what do I know?

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To add a cherry on top of all this, this is armor from Stark's early days. It's basically the first War Machine armor created. Carol confirms that it was "Rhodey's armor" and gets extremely agitated in their fight. His armor was confirmed to be from the late eighties:

"...instead of having him run around in his late-eighties hand-me-downs".

Since I already did an effective job of showing the gap between Carol and Iron Man above, I'll just leave War Machine out of this and also show scans of her failing to do any damage to him whilst amped by half of the power of a city:

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He doesn't even seem phased by her hit either. It's important to note that he didn't want to fight her there.

In reality, the gap between Carol and Tony is up there. In a well-written story, Iron Man should take it against her. Of course, Bendis clearly had different plans and needed to get rid of Stark to replace him with someone more ethnically diverse. Seemed like he wrote himself into a corner.

I've got more evidence that Ms. Marvel is below Iron Man.

Here are scans of Ms. Marvel going up against Spider-Woman:

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She clearly gets harmed by Jessica's venom blasts, right?

Let's see how Iron Man fares against them in an inferior armor:

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He manages to absorb Spider-Woman's venom blast and instead of hurting him, it helps him. Funnily enough, he moves so quickly to intercept the venom blast that she doesn't even realize what happened. Not even we, as the readers, realize what happened until Tony tells us.

Hmmm look at Ms. Marvel fleeing from MODOK.

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Funny, how Iron Man manages to do pretty well against him:

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In a more recent comic, he casually stomps him:

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It should be noted that he had around 20% power while doing this xD

She's also gone up against Tiger Shark, who is a prominent Namor villain capable of regularly trading blows with the Sub-Mariner, and he no-sold her blows while outside of water:

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She later fights him underwater and her "best shot" only stuns him:

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She later resorts to using her superior skill and ends up using pressure points and nerve strikes to knock him out, but her punches clearly pale in comparison to Iron Man's:

Manages to draw blood from Tiger Shark.
Manages to draw blood from Tiger Shark.

In a retelling story, Bleeding-Edge Iron Man goes up against Ms. Marvel (who he thinks is a skrull at that time). He blasts at her and she absorbs his repulsors and then beams her back:

He's fine from this hit and the fight is interrupted by Captain America. No damage from her blast despite being amped from Tony's beam.
He's fine from this hit and the fight is interrupted by Captain America. No damage from her blast despite being amped from Tony's beam.

She's also been one-shotted by a mind-controlled and blood-lusted Thor:

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Funnily enough, Iron Man ends up fighting Thor and saving the day.

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And again, this is the same character that literally got one-shotted from a stomp by Tony's Hulk-Buster armor in 2007.

This one is pretty funny too. Here we have Iron Man sucker punching Ms. Marvel and then one-shotting her:

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He claims that he never could have done that if she hadn't been drunk, but he only says that because she wouldn't have fell for the oldest trick in the book (hey what's that behind you?). Which means he could replicate this if he had stealth or overwhelming speed.

Let's see how Carol compares when she sucker punches Iron Man in a non-combat situation though:

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It should be noted that he was not injured, damaged, or knocked out from this blow. Why is this significant? Well, Tony had just got done reminding Carol about how she separated Spider-Woman from her own daughter due to the Superhuman Registration act and she didn't appreciate that very much. Not only was she super pissed, but she even admits later on that she had not hit someone that hard in a "good long time". She even admits that she hit him that hard because she "knew the armor would absorb the impact".

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So he casually tanks a really hard hit from an angry Ms. Marvel without grunting in pain or even receiving cosmetic damage on his suit. This was also a non-combat situation and they were in the middle of a conversation which makes this tantamount to a sucker punch.

Since we're on the topic of sucker punches though, let's compare how Rogue (with Ms. Marvel's stats) handled an ambush from Hercules:

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This is the first time that Hercules officially meets Tony:

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Hercules thinks that Iron Man is trespassing in Avengers Mansion. He thinks that he's just a robot. Since powerhouses tend not to hold back against robots and he didn't know there was a man inside, much less an Avenger, he likely wasn't holding back like he probably was when he sucker punched Rogue. His blows were so loud that they could be heard outside and throughout the mansion and Thor comes to break the fight up.

Yet, somehow, he needs a Hulk-Buster/bulked up armor to put up a decent fight against her and still lose in Civil War II.

Namor

This next section is dedicated to displaying Iron Man's superiority to the Sub-Mariner who I'd argue is more of a low-high tier than a mid-tier, but I think he'd make an excellent edition to this thread. Since they've fought so many times, I figured I'd just go over most of their fights since Tony tends to do better against Namor than vice versa. When I'm going over some of their earliest fights, I want you to keep in mind the fact that Namor was literally portrayed as a powerhouse capable of consistently defeating the Hulk.

In their first fight in Avengers #4, Namor has trouble hurting or even causing cosmetic damage to Iron Man:

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Some may view this encounter as proof of Namor's superiority since Iron Man was helpless at the end, but I think it's a good example of how durable Iron Man's armor is. Especially when Tony's power began to run out after using his magnetism on Namor. When Iron Man has low power or his armor is damaged, he gets weaker and less durable. The lower his power, the weaker he gets. Since he wasted all of his power on holding Namor down with the magnets, he was literally taking a relentless beating from Namor on low power to no avail. The reason I posted this fight was mostly to foreshadow their next fight where Tony's armor is actually dangerously low on power and very damaged.

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This fight is one of the most telling encounters of Iron Man's superiority. After defeating Krang, a Namor villain, Iron Man returns back to one of his factories where he hopes to recharge and repair his failing armor. The Sub-Mariner wanted to defeat Krang for himself and was upset when Iron Man stole the honor. Iron Man was so low on power that he could not even counter-attack. His durability was at an all-time low and Namor couldn't even further damage or knock Stark unconscious. Eventually, Tony uses reverse psychology in order to trick Namor into throwing him into his lab. He then proceeds to lock a 10 ton door behind him which industrial grade locks. The best part about this encounter is the fact that Namor absolutely cannot break down that door. As soon as Iron Man repairs and recharges his armor he manages to casually kick it down after his first try:

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After this encounter, Namor goes back into the depths of the ocean to regain his strength. He comes back for a rematch against Stark, but it's a much different kind of fight when Tony is using an operable suit at full power:

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Physically on land, they seem to be equals since they trade blows, but Iron Man displays a better ability to fight and strategize than Namor which leads to his downfall here. After Tony comes up with a strategy to force Namor to sap his energy and keep him away from the water, things seem to be going well for Tony. Namor is stunned from Iron Man's blows, he's swinging wildly, can't seem to hit him, and Namor begins to get desperate. So much so that he ends up grabbing one of Stark's devices which he blasts Iron Man with and Tony is confident that the magno-volt projector was powerful enough to kill them and everyone else around them at the facility. This device seems to weaken and lower Iron Man's power significantly. If Namor hadn't grabbed that device, it's likely that Iron Man would have just flown around and dodged Namor's blows in order to force him to expend his energy. Since it didn't happen that way, Iron Man was forced to improvise and despite being weakened, he still manages to fight off and resist Namor from pulling his faceplate off. As soon as he partially recharges himself, they go back to trading blows. It's obvious that Namor was weakening as they continued, but eventually Namor decides that he'd rather search for Krang and Lady Dorma than fight. Tony lets him go and the fight ends. Had Namor not used one of Stark's weapons to even the playing field, I believe Iron Man would have won handily.

This next fight is my favorite fight between Iron Man and Namor. It displays the quick thinking, versatility, and creativity of Iron Man in a combat situation. This time they fight underwater, yet Iron Man still manages to take advantage of the situation and turn the tables on the Sub-Mariner:

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I only posted part of the fight here. As you can see though, Iron Man seems to be holding his own against Namor just fine. Especially underwater. Taking his best hits without trouble.

My favorite part is the next three scans where Iron Man takes advantage of Namor's heat weakness and his own versatility:

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It should be noted that the whirlpool strategy that was being used on Iron Man has been used successfully by Namor on the Hulk. Iron Man took advantage of the Sub-Mariner's heat weakness and stomped him. By the way, Namor does in fact have a heat weakness as displayed in these scans:

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Even against Sunfire, who one-shotted Namor, Iron Man actually no-sold his best attacks:

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Iron Man doesn't even need to heat up his armor and grab Namor like he did in the fight four, instead he could just blast him with his uni-beam at 54% capacity:

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Namor has been KO'd and weakened by much lower temperatures than 6,000 Kelvin. Let alone 10,000. He would one-shot the Sub-Mariner if he blasted him the same way as Graviton. In fact, the Crimson Dynamo, an Iron Man villain that has been taken out easily in the past, has made short work of Meranno (a Namor villain) by employing the exact same heat strategy:

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Heat is an established weakness against Atlanteans.

Even Namora, Namor's Atlantean cousin with similar abilities and power levels, fails against heat based laser attacks:

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She gets one-shotted by M-11 the Human Robot.

Meanwhile, in his classic armor, Iron Man manages to stalemate M-11 (his respect thread is here) with his repulsors:

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There is even dialogue from Thor, Gorilla Man, and Hank about how much heat their clash is creating.

Iron Man has actually displayed, in character, the strategy of implementing heat against Atlanteans in order to dehydrate them and weaken them for a win. This is an exploitable weakness that Tony is not only aware of, but one that he fully takes advantage of whenever necessary:

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Extremis Iron Man displays his superiority to Namor by stomping a deep sea drone that he built and lost control over:

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The scans speak for themselves. Namor was getting stomped and Iron Man came to rescue him. This actually makes a lot of sense considering the fact that Iron Man and Namor have always been portrayed as equals, but this was before the plethora of armors that he's cycled through and improved since these encounters. Extremis Iron Man is on another level in comparison to his classic armor which Namor couldn't even break even while being low on power or damaged.

He's even stomped a Kree Sentry whom Namor could not even move. Literally no-sold his blows:

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He's also tanked a hit from and one-shotted Orka, a prominent Sub-Mariner villain:

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The next fight that he gets into with Namor is another instance where Iron Man is not at his best. It's also another situation where Iron Man and Namor fight underwater. In this particular story, a character going by the name of Madame MacEvil somehow manages to technologically take control of Iron Man's armor which forces him to fight an unsuspecting Namor. One could argue that Namor might not have been taking the fight seriously since he doesn't want to fight Tony at the beginning and even tries to avoid Iron Man and give him some space. Regardless, in this fight Iron Man is portrayed as someone that, while clearly not holding back (because he cannot since he's controlled), is capable of harming Namor. He even looks like he starts to wear him down by the end. Even underwater. Anyway, by her having control over him Tony mentions that his actions are slower and delayed. Not only that, but since Iron Man has to manually close his eye slits for his armor, he is actually fighting the urge to drown while trading a few blows with Namor. He does fix this problem quickly, but it's still important to note.

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Not only is he slower than usual, but he also doesn't have the luxury of using his own skill and strategy in this fight. It's just raw power being used without reason or thought. Imagine if Tony had actually come up with a strategy.

The next fight that Namor and Iron Man have shows Tony's vast superiority once again. In this scenario, Stark had four martini's before engaging in combat with a pissed off Namor. Not only was he buzzed/drunk, but once again the fight is taken to the dark depths of the ocean.

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The best part of this fight is scan 4. He once again uses the same strategy against Namor that he employed back in his fourth fight. He uses electrical heat to dehydrate/weaken Namor for the win. After he gets Namor off of him and sends him reeling (bad enough that Namor cannot pursue Tony), Justin Hammer suddenly takes control of Iron Man's armor and forces him to open the seals which keep out the water. He is then KO'd and saved by Namor. One thing that is important to note is the fact that Iron Man initially did not want to fight.

His next fight was from New Avengers: Illuminati #1. This was the horrible PIS written by Bendis where Tony was written as a street leveler incapable of using his brain or even harming Namor. Even worse, he had Namor casually rip off his helmet, when in the past, we've seen him struggle to do so against a weakened Iron Man. A version of Iron Man that has been upgraded several times since his classic incarnation. I don't expect Bendis to know anything about previous encounters, storylines or comics in general, but this was completely ridiculous even for him. Look at the consistency of their fights and then look at this one. Absolute PIS and the very definition of inconsistency/outlier. Not even going to bother posting the scans.

Next one is in Namor's own book called Sub-Mariner in issue #2. Basically what happens here is Iron Man blasts Namor with a featless gun, he plows through and tackles Iron Man, Tony proceeds to shrug off the impact and punch Namor off to send him flying, Namor throws a ship at another ship which Iron Man stops with his brute strength. By the time he stops the ship's impact, Namor is gone. Not even going to bother posting this fight since it's so short and doesn't prove much about Tony's power levels. By the way, this was underwater.

His final and most recent fight against Iron Man takes place in Invincible Iron Man #12. This is a fight where, at first glance and without context, Iron Man is portrayed pretty poorly against Namor. However, there are a number of reasons for this. First of all, Iron Man at the time was going brain dead and was not nearly as smart as he was before since he was purging his memory and databases from his skull. This affects the way he fights (although ultimately the little intellect he has left still proves too much for Namor). Second of all, Iron Man was using his Heroes Reborn armor. This armor is an upgrade from his classic armors that he used to fight Namor in, but it is far from being his most advanced armor at the time that this story was written. This isn't really a valid excuse since it should, in theory, still do better against Namor since his classic armors could basically stalemate him physically. However, the real excuse comes into play when these scans are provided of him fighting War Machine an issue before fighting Namor:

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This encounter is relevant for a variety of reasons. First of all, at the time, Norman Osborn was after Tony Stark. He wanted him dead or alive. War Machine was technically still working for the government so he was forced to bring Tony in. At first, Rhodey wasn't taking the fight too seriously, but Tony wanted to make their fight look real since he didn't want James to be in trouble for collusion. He asked War Machine to literally pour on everything he had onto him. After his armor tanks War Machine's best assault, he puts the rest of his power into the energy beams which opens up and damages War Machine's armor. Not only was Iron Man's armor beat up and slightly damaged, but it was also extremely low on power. He says that he puts "everything but life support into my palm repulsors" as he blasts WM. That means that, while fighting this version of Namor, who was ordered to kill Tony, basically all Iron Man had working was his life support systems.

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Hilariously enough, despite having little to no power and already being damaged, Namor STILL fails to break open or KO the man inside. Even while standing over him and striking him in the same place over and over again. This fight reminds me a lot of their second fight. Except in this one Tony wins by out thinking Namor once again.

Protector

The Protector, also known as Noh-Varr or Marvel Boy, is a Kree meta-human from an alternate universe who stumbled into the 616 one. His Kree enhanced armor and technology further increases his stats. With intimate knowledge of Stark's armor through espionage, AIM was able to take control of his Bleeding-Edge armor against his wishes and they were forced to fight.

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Scan 1: Iron Man is taken over; Scan 2: Iron Man blasts Noh-Varr which sends him flying. Tony's armor lets loose another blast which creates an explosion that seems to be building level; Scan 3: The Protector is sent flying from an explosion and lies on the floor to call for backup. He dodges a blast from Iron Man; Scan 4: He dodges several more blasts and comments on how difficult it is for Iron Man's armor to be hacked. He's warning his teammates. He then blocks a blast which makes him scream out in pain; Scan 5: Marvel Boy blasts Iron Man which is no-sold by his shields. After attaching a Kree device to Stark's armor, he is hit once again which makes him scream out in pain oncemore; Scan 6: The device incapacitates the Bleeding-Edge armor (possibly) for mere seconds. Eye beams from the armor then hit the Protector which KO's him; Scan 7: Device is removed and the Protector is taken to an AIM facility.

Should be noted that Iron Man was not utilizing his usual skill in this fight since he was not in control. It should also be noted that it's likely that, despite the fighting, AIM and Hydra weren't using the full capacity of his armor because they wanted Noh-Varr's equipment and body intact for research and replication. Now for the fun part: proving the Protector is a mid-tier.

This scan is effective in not only showing that he's a mid-tier, since Titanium Man is a solid mid-tier and Iron Man villain, but it also goes into some detail about who he is and his history.

Tony even comments on how this takedown is impressive. When he's not trading blows with Iron Man, he's actually had brief clashes with Thor before believe it or not.
Tony even comments on how this takedown is impressive. When he's not trading blows with Iron Man, he's actually had brief clashes with Thor before believe it or not.

This character has also taken on Lyra, the daughter of Hulk and Thundra, before without his armor on:

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He's also taken out a roster of weakened/exhausted Avengers (after fighting the Phoenix Force) that included Thor, Ms. Marvel, Beast, Captain Britain, War Machine, Valkyrie, and Vision:

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Again, they were exhausted and weakened. Still, I'd wager it's not easy to do that to Thor even if he's weakened.

Later on the Avengers get even with Noh-Varr and all hit him at once:

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Needless to say, he's pretty durable and powerful. Iron Man took him down. 'Nuff said.

Sebastian Shaw

This is a character that also seems to do really well against mid-tiers. However, since it's been established that Tony is no mid-tier, it only makes logical sense that Iron Man stomps Shaw just like the rest.

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Scan 1 shows Iron Man overloading Shaw with his repulsor rays. He's not exactly unconscious, but he's on his knees unable to fight. Scan 2 shows Iron Man decking Shaw in the face on low power. Not only does he draw blood from this strike, but it also takes him out of the fight temporarily. He's on his hands and knees trying to recover. Later, for scan 3, Iron Man blasts Shaw in the face with whatever power he has left in his suit. This is a weakened repulsor ray and it still manages to make Shaw scream out in pain. The next two scans show what happens next:

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These are durability feats. Again, Iron Man is low on power. When he's low, his durability and offensive ability goes down. He's taking Shaw's best hits and he even gets thrown through several floors of the Hellfire Club, yet he's just fine. The X-Men do arrive to save Tony, but he's literally in another time period in an older armor with no power. He does really well for himself.

Now I'm going to post feats of Shaw doing well against mid-tiers. Many of whom are referenced within this thread:

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Scan 1-2: Colossus lightly punches Shaw with the intention of knocking him out. Shaw combines the kinetic energy that Piotr uses with his own power and the returning hit makes Colossus' head ring. He claims he's never been hit so hard before; Scan 3: Base Rogue (with Ms. Marvel's powers) gets stomped by Shaw. The first hit makes her think she was being hit by the Hulk. After he no-sells her attack and absorbs her kinetic energy, he finishes her off.

That's not the first time that Rogue got stomped by Shaw. Watch as he one-shots her while she has the powers of She-Hulk:

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It should be noted that when Rogue absorbs power it gets added in ADDITION to whatever power she already has. She always had the Ms. Marvel stats amp, so She-Hulk's stats are added too.

He's even fought against Namor:

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To be fair, after Shaw punches and draws blood from Namor, it seems as though the Sub-Mariner is able to overload Shaw's kinetic field just like Tony after getting serious. However, Iron Man wasn't at full power.

These scans just go to show the gap between Iron Man and other mid-tiers like Ms. Marvel, Colossus, She-Hulk, and even Namor.

She-Hulk

Next up we have Iron Man owning She-Hulk (and Titania, her villain). He's actually owned Jennifer on three separate occasions. In one instance, he one-shotted her in Contest of Champions with a blast to the back of the neck. After she gets KO'd he's actually concerned he might have injured her. In another instance he flies in an one-shots her with a punch. This is impressive because not only is she extremely enraged and amped (last time she was that angry she was trading blows with savage Hulk), but she was also shrugging off hits from Lionheart (Captain Britain level mid-tier) and ripped a damaged Vision in half. The final instance was written by Slott and although I refer to this as pretty horrible writing (since She-Hulk somehow outspeeds and outskills Tony), I feel that it is worth mentioning. Before the fight begins, Tony one-shots her casually with his repulsors and it's inferred that she was KO'd by this blast since Iron Man tells one of his employees to lock her up in the brig "before she comes to" which heavily implies that she was unconscious. I doubt Stark would have turned his back on her and let some nameless guy handle her if she wasn't. Although she was back up by the time Tony turns around, it's still impressive that he KO'd her so easily while she was angry. The fourth scan shows Iron Man knocking out Titania (a She-Hulk villain that goes several rounds with She-Hulk regularly). It looks like a similar take down as the first scan with Jen.

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The following scans display that She-Hulk is slightly superior to Titania, but she struggles to KO her:

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Retcon from Secret Wars. It appears that they were evenly matched until She-Hulk started verbally bullying Titania which likely brought back trauma from when she was weak and bullied before she received her powers.
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Fails to one-shot Titania despite launching her several miles away.
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Same thing happens as above.
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And here too. As you can even see, if it wasn't for Absorbing Man accidentally throwing his enchanted ball and chain (which has harmed Thor), She-Hulk would have had an even longer and more drawn out battle.

Not exactly capable of one-shotting Titania.

The followings scans display Iron Man literally no-selling the very same attack from the very same character that effortlessly one-shotted and KO'd She-Hulk:

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Clear durability difference here, I'd say.

He has also tanked a slam from She-Hulk without grunting/screaming out in pain and without any damage:

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Iron Man's drone dressed up like his Bleeding-Edge armor also managed to one-shot a mutant named Frenzy:

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She's even shown still unconscious in the final panel of the cropped scan I made.

Let's see how She-Hulk compared:

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We see her tanking Jennifer's hit like a champ. When Rogue took all of She-Hulk's power, she lost control for a moment and took Frenzy by surprise:

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Scan 1: Cheap-shots Frenzy with what seems like a morals off hit; Scan 2: Shows Rogue regaining control and Frenzy KO'd; Scan 3: Shows Frenzy recovering before the fight is over. Granted, this is a couple of pages later. Still, she was sucker punched. The fact that she recovered so well, in addition to already tanking a hit from She-Hulk before Rogue absorbed Jen's power, should say something.

I find it especially impressive considering the fact that Rogue, with only a fraction of She-Hulk's powers, was able to very briefly KO She-Hulk:

Sure, she was up again in the next page, but that's a clear KO. Love that inner dialogue that Rogue has by the way.
Sure, she was up again in the next page, but that's a clear KO. Love that inner dialogue that Rogue has by the way.

I know it may be hypocritical to use this issue as evidence of Iron Man's superiority over She-Hulk when Rogue uses Walters' powers to later tear apart Tony's armor like it's tissue paper, but honestly it was pretty bad writing that she was able to suddenly punch through his armor despite hitting him 3 times without even a slight sign of damage to his suit:

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I mean in the second and third scan you can even see him recovering instantly from a morals off attack. He even ends up blasting the Hulked out Rogue which makes her grunt out in pain. Also kind of odd and inconsistent how Rogue, with not even all of She-Hulk's powers, could briefly KO She-Hulk herself, but couldn't even do it to Iron Man whom the writer clearly believed was superior to Tony. The writer must have been very confused.

This isn't even the worst part. Apparently Rogue with She-Hulk's strength has the power to punch through his armor like it's made of glass, but when she gets a hold of him before that she even attempts to crush and squeeze his suit, but nothing happens:

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She had her shot there, but nothing happened. You can even tell that she was attempting to crush the armor because the book illustrates the noise from her trying to break it with the words "KRNCH".

I might get some flak for the next part I'm about to post in regards to She-Hulk, but in Civil War II under Bendis, War Machine fodderized She-Hulk on accident with a stray missile:

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It should be noted that it's been retconned that she was almost killed by the missile, but it still did A LOT of damage to her:

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Whether you believe this was bad writing or not, I felt it necessary to add this to the collection. Many take what Bendis writes with a grain of salt, but right there it seems that he felt that an outdated War Machine from the late 1980s was above She-Hulk. Take it as you will.

I'd also like to analyze Iron Man's fight against She-Hulk in her own book written under Dan Slott's pencil. I find this fight very humorous and there is a lot of bad writing in it, but hilariously enough, even while Jen is somehow outskilling and outspeeding Tony, this fight STILL manages to make Iron Man look like She-Hulk's superior in this encounter.

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Let's go through what's happening scan by scan. In the first scan you see She-Hulk coming in hot with a Quinjet. She wants to have words with Tony for shooting Hulk into space. Using his technopathic abilities, Tony manages to stop it in its tracks. She-Hulk then demonstrates her frustration by breaking the top off the vehicle, screaming his name, and then rushing over to fight Iron Man. She's clearly furious here which makes her more powerful. In scan 2, Iron Man raises his hand and one-shots her with his repulsor rays. Supposedly these are "full powered", but the important thing is that, as I've already shown you at the top of the She-Hulk section, is that she's knocked unconscious. Sure, it's brief and by the time Tony turns around and starts walking away she gets back up, but it's important to note that he said to lock her up "before she comes to". Now I found scan 3 absolutely hilarious for two reasons: the dialogue and the inability to tag She-Hulk. Apparently She-Hulk was only one-shotted by Iron Man in Avengers: Disassembled because "the laws of probability were going haywire" and because she was going up against "twenty" other Avengers lmao. If Dan Slott had been following the Avengers storyline at all he would have known that She-Hulk was having issues coming into contact with Jack of Hearts and his zero-energy (who was revived by the Scarlet Witch and exploded near Avengers mansion). Anytime she so much as came into contact with him, she'd either Hulk out and lose control of her powers or revert back into her human form. The reason she Hulked out in the first place was because Jack of Heart's energies came into contact with her which made her transform and lose control. There wasn't "laws of probabilities going haywire" or whatever which affected her being KO'd. Those laws of probability simply brought Jack back which then transformed She-Hulk after she became frustrated enough after fighting the Ultron bots that came out of Vision. To address the next one of her ridiculous claims excuses, she literally went up against 5 Avengers. Five. Captain America, Wasp, Falcon, Hawkeye, and Captain Britain. The only noteworthy Avenger there was Captain Britain. "Twenty Avengers" lmao give me a break. Then, after building up enough speed and momentum to make himself a blur of light, Iron Man somehow can't tag She-Hulk. Lmao the massively hypersonic Iron Man who has flown across continents within minutes, couldn't build up enough speed to get the best of She-Hulk the speedster. Not only does she manage to dodge him, but she also grabs his leg while he's flying at these blurring speeds. Comical. In scan 4, we have some of the funniest panels I've ever seen. She-Hulk dodges, parries, deflects, counterattacks, and just absolutely outskills and outspeeds the same guy that received training from Captain America and has lightning/microsecond timing speed. The best part about these scans though is the fact that, despite She-Hulk tagging and kicking Iron Man around, he's still not hurt by her attacks in any way. He doesn't grunt or scream out in pain, his armor isn't damaged, there isn't even so much as a dent on his suit. However, we we look at this part of the fight, you see that one single punch (from a guy that doesn't even really want to fight) manages to draw blood from Jen. So ultimately, this overly referenced scan which is used to lowball Iron Man actually doesn't even make him look that bad, at least from a durability or strength standpoint. Scan 5 shows She-Hulk slamming Tony up against the wall which, again, does nothing to him. However, he then decides that She-Hulk needs to be taken out of the equation and he uses his SPIN tech on her which depowers her.

Since we're on the topic of the enraged She-Hulk, Jack of Hearts, and Iron Man, I think it's also important to add these next scans into this section as well:

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Scan 1: Blitzes and makes enraged She-Hulk grunt in pain and then manages to tank a hit from her afterwards; Scan 2: Tanks a hit from an even further enraged She-Hulk which does cosmetic damage and knocks half his systems offline.

Some might look at scan 2 and think, "how is that impressive?" Well, to provide some context, there is quite a lot going on in between each scan of She-Hulk clocking Iron Man. First of all, She-Hulk is technically amped in this story since the angrier/more emotional she gets, the stronger she gets. She's never this angry or powerful normally. This isn't her base strength. By definition, she's amped. Second of all, she gets even MORE powerful and angry the second time she hits Tony than she did the first time. She-Hulk ends up fighting savage Hulk which only regresses her even further:

She ends up stalemating the Hulk for several pages and as you can see, she is strong enough to make him bleed.

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Look just at what Tony had to say about her strength levels BEFORE fighting and stalemating the Hulk:

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Another bit of context that's important to note about why half of Iron Man's systems went offline or why pieces of his armor were falling off after the hit could relate to what he was dealing with beforehand as well:

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The fight between She-Hulk and the Avengers was destroying the town. As Wanda and Steve fall through a sinkhole created by the damage of their fight, Iron Man flies down to save them only to have She-Hulk slam onto the floor and have debris from a city block fall right on top of them and bury them. It's not until after this, which is clearly what taxed Tony's armor and not She-Hulk, that he went on to tank ANOTHER hit from her while she was even stronger and more angry.

To further demonstrate my point, we're talking about the same aggravated and powerful She-Hulk that one-shotted Vision while his density was extremely high (and after withstanding being phased through), one-shotted Captain Britain and put her in critical condition from a backhand (while Jen no-sold swings from Excalibur), gave Jack of Hearts a bloody nose and then sent him flying through several walls which effectively BFR'd him, ripped an already damaged Vision in half, and broke Captain America's bones (despite blocking her hits with his shield). I apologize, but these scans aren't in much of any kind of order:

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Scan 1: Smacks Jack of Hearts hard enough to drop She-Hulk and give him a bloody nose (this is before she fully transforms into savage mode); Scan 2: Punches Jack through walls and then does an AoE attack; Scan 3: Doctors realign his bones after the encounter with She-Hulk; Scan 4: Captain Britain is down, Wasp is down, and Cap is injured (aftermath); Scan 5: Captain Britain is in the hospital in critical condition; Scan 6: Captain Britain's Excalibur is no-sold by She-Hulk as she slams a truck on top of Cap. Captain Britain is also one-shotted soon after; Scan 7: Withstands Vision's phasing, so he decides to increase his density one thousand fold; Scan 8: One-shots Wasp with a backhand and hurts Cap despite blocking/absorbing impact with his shield; Scan 9-10: Rips a damaged Vision in half; Scan 11: Increased density does not work out so well for him as he gets slammed, overpowered, and punched through by She-Hulk.

So this is the version of She-Hulk that Iron Man tanked a hit from in the FIRST scan, but by the time he gets hit a second time by her, she was amped even further by her rage as she stalemates and fights with the Hulk. Needless to say, savage She-Hulk is on another level in comparison to base She-Hulk, yet Iron Man tanks hits from her and even managed to one-shot her.

Storm

When it comes to offensive capability, I'd say that she's a mid-tier at best. From a durability or speed perspective she's worse than most standard street levelers. These next few scans will demonstrate how useless Storm's lightning has been on Iron Man/War Machine armors.

First of all, it should be noted that his armor has thermocouples which are capable of absorbing heat, cold, electricity, etc. and transferring that into energy. It has been confirmed that his armor does it with lightning automatically:

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...which is confirmed when James Rhodes gets hit by a lightning bolt. Not only does he confirm that the armor absorbed the lightning by itself/automatically himself, but since he just started using the Iron Man armor and was deeply inexperienced it is evident that he wasn't knowledgeable enough yet to willingly/consciously absorb that lightning bolt himself. It was the armor.

Here are some scans of War Machine and Iron Man shrugging off Storm's lightning without any damages at all whatsoever:

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Scan 1: Bleeding-Edge Iron Man completely no-sells Storm's lightning with his force-fields; Scan 2-3: Endo-sym armor completely shrugs off and tanks Storm's lightning without any issues at all whatsoever. After scan 2, Storm doesn't appear for the rest of the entire arc of AXIS, so it's obvious that he took her out; Scan 4: Storm's lightning staggers Iron Man's Extremis armor, but is still overall unaffected and undamaged; Scan 5-6: War Machine tanks Storm's lightning. It seems to harm him in scan 6, but he doesn't seem harmed at all in scan 5 (which was after). He gets knocked over both times, but again, there is no damage. After he gets hit the second time he even proceeds to one-shot this overrated glass cannon with some tasers xD.

War Machine was also portrayed as completely handling working with Storm's category five hurricane level winds too:

Not only is he able to handle flying and maneuvering around in these conditions, but he's also capable of throwing Colossonaut with accuracy despite the heavy winds.

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During Secret Wars, Storm tried destroying Galactus' world eating machine with her powers:

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As you can see, her tornado level winds and lightning does absolutely nothing to his machine here. Galactus doesn't even take notice.

Let's see how Iron Man compares:

Manages to damage Galactus' machine with some flight momentum. Reed is greatly impressed by this feat. Not only does he damage a machine which no-sold Storm's best attacks, but it looks like his actions also took the notice of Galactus too.

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Vision

He has always been a very powerful character. However, even Kang has stated that Iron Man's "armored might far out-strips the Vision's". In scan 2, 3, and 4 we have Vision failing to incapacitate Iron Man after phasing through him (these instances were all pre-Civil War). In scan 5, we have Regent (who also had Vision's intangibility), also failing to do anything to his technology. Scan 6-7 shows Vision being KO'd by Tony's repulsors (each instance was a page or more of Vision being KO'd). The last scan shows Vision not only admitting that he cannot break through Iron Man's armor and that he needs to phase to hurt him, but after failing to grab an internal organ, Tony manages to take control of Vision and manually reboot him. Sometimes people forget that Ultron created Vision and that whenever someone owns him they are essentially owning Ultron-tech. The last scan shows Iron Man blasting Vision with his repulsors. He is so hurt by his blasts that, as he is on his hands and knees recovering, he instructs another teammate to stop Tony from reaching his helmet (since Vision can't do it himself).

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#2 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Edited by BruceRogers (17609 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: Thanks for the tag mate!. I will see what I can do.

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#4 Edited by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

My comment was too long up above, so I'm going to just keep editing this comment if I ever want to add more stuff.

Thing

Thing is a solid brick. He has probably fought every single Marvel superhuman in existence. He always seems to do pretty well for himself too. In the classic days, he was portrayed as a very determined and powerful character that never gave up. There aren't many instances where Iron Man is portrayed as superior, but I'll post all showings that I've got. Whether it's just tanking a hit or two from him or just hurting Ben with his repulsors, I'll try to show everything.

First, I think we'll start off with arguably Iron Man's best showing against Thing which happened in Iron Man volume 4 issue number 12. For some context, Iron Man built a bunch of high powered and specialized armors. A villain had a device inside of Iron Man's head which was forcing Tony to subconsciously mentally control these armors to wreak havoc on a global scale. He made a battlefield version, submariner version, stealth fighter, a Hulk-Buster, and the tunneling unit (which is bulked up and armored enough to be on the level of a Hulk-Buster). The one that the Fantastic Four is shown fighting is the tunneling unit which, according to Tony, was designed for subterranean rescue missions and has a vibranium helmet that uses hybrid repulsor-uni beam to effectively dig underground.

The Subterranean armor is even stated in this scan to be causing seismic activity in the Gulf.
The Subterranean armor is even stated in this scan to be causing seismic activity in the Gulf.

This Subterranean armor is attempting to breach the water table of an oil rig in order to spill tons of oil into the Persian Gulf:

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Scan 1: Reed describes what the unit is doing and it is shown emerging from underground which sends Thing and Sue flying; Scan 2: Thing is shown punching the armor to no avail while the Human Torch blasts it with heat. Reed reminds them once again what will happen if the armor succeeds. It casually overpowers and shrugs all of them off and attempts to go underground; Scan 3: Ben grabs the armor by the leg and attempts to drag it away from the hole it was digging while commenting on how "heavy" it is. It activates its jet boosters which overpowers Thing and brings him underground with it; Scan 4: A streak of light is seen going into the tunnel and suddenly Iron Man is shown casually lifting and pulling the subterranean armor (with Thing holding on) out of the hole. He then blasts the left leg off and rips apart the right leg which effectively prevents the armor from boosting away. Thing says that Stark made that look easy; Scan 5: Iron Man instantly flies the armor out of orbit, but is blasted by his stealth armor which makes him drop it. Should be noted that Thing was commenting on how heavy it was earlier; Scan 6: Tony does some calculations about how long it would take the armor to free fall and hit the Earth while he waits for the stealth armor to reveal itself by attacking again; Scan 7: Iron Man flies down to catch the armor and by doing so he manages to cause cracks on the torso (which is something Thing couldn't do); Scan 8: Tony is shown being choked/squeezed by the subterranean armor (which was powerful enough to shrug off and ragdoll Thing), but then manages to forcibly make the armor release its grip and tells Captain America how this armor weighs 68.7 metric tons; Scan 9: Iron Man is then shown slamming the subterranean armor on top of the battlefield armor which was coated in adamantium. Since the helmet in the subterranean armor was made of antarctic vibranium, slamming them on top of each other manages to blow them both apart.

That was a lot... However, in my opinion, this showing serves to make Thing look slightly inferior to Stark. The way he overpowers and casually lifts an armor that Thing was shown to greatly struggle against even with backup (they could barely get it to move), the way he was able to damage it so much easier than Ben was able to, how he was able to shrug off the strength and power of the suit as it tried to crush him, etc. If you've read the story too, you'd see that he was flying from continent to continent taking out other threats at the same time and dealing with armors simultaneously. I mean he had time to take out the stealth armor in space before the subterranean armor landed via free fall and then after catching it he flew that armor all the way to Russia where he dropped the subterranean armor on top of another to destroy it... Meanwhile the Fantastic Four is busy and struggling to deal with one single armor and threat at a time.

This next instance occurs in Fantastic Four volume 3 issue 15. For some context, this was an issue where Ronan the Accuser was using the Invisible Woman via mind-control to sneak onto the Earth's moon and into the Watcher's armory in order to steal a weapon that can help the Kree empire expand. SHIELD ends up contacting Tony Stark to send Iron Man to help, but unfortunately a combination of a planetary EMP and Reed's space folding teleportation technology seems to make Tony's systems go haywire which leads to his automatic combat systems to be put in place and his audio systems conveniently do not work either. This, inevitably, leads to a scuffle that is out of Stark's hands. It should be noted that Reed's space fold technology was not intended for technology to step through it since it was designed just for the FF, but with Iron Man using it I believe that may have had an immense impact. It should also be noted that Iron Man's new armor here is a prototype at the time:

It was just in the experimental stages and was an imperfect version of his armor. When this armor becomes perfected later on, it becomes his new SKIN metal armor which is a flexible low grade adamantium encased armor that is added later to this suit.
It was just in the experimental stages and was an imperfect version of his armor. When this armor becomes perfected later on, it becomes his new SKIN metal armor which is a flexible low grade adamantium encased armor that is added later to this suit.
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Scan 1: Iron Man arrives via Reed's teleportation. They don't recognize him due to his change in experimental armor. It's stated that a planetary EMP goes off and it was so powerful that all nukes detonated simultaneously wouldn't create a surge that powerful; Scan 2: Since Tony could not speak and his armor's weapon systems were charging up, Thing inevitably hits him since he's skeptical that it's the real Iron Man. Tony withstands the hit without any issues and the automatic defense systems kick in which leads to the armor blasting Thing. Ben admits that those beams hurt him; Scan 3: The Human Torch tries to latch onto Iron Man, so he slams Johnny into the side of the cliff; Scan 4: Tony confirms the problem with his armor and he would try to do an all-systems shut down, but it won't allow that as long as the armor believes he's under attack. Thing tackles Iron Man into the side of a cliff. Doesn't seem to hurt or damage Iron Man; Scan 5: Ben repeatedly hits Iron Man and even attempts to move and aim Tony's arms toward himself but fails. Tony's armor retaliates and punches Thing into the side of the cliff. To be fair, Ben seems unaffected; Scan 6-7: Thing holds Iron Man down long enough for Reed to teleport them and disconnect the transceptor device which was causing the systems malfunction.

Not only was this armor experimental which was weaker than a standard one since it hadn't been perfected or completed yet, but Tony was also not in control of it at all and he even claims that the armor was a lot rougher of a ride than normal and that all the physical stress his body had been through lately was taking a toll. Despite not using his own skill and combat experience against the FF, his armor is not damaged and he himself is not harmed from this confusing encounter. Neither are any of the Fantastic Four, but I think this is a good showing against Thing once again. Especially since this was an unfinished armor that Tony had no control over.

The next instance that I'm going to post includes a fight with a character named Prestor John. He's some sort of super powered Knight who seems to have a similar ideology as the ones during the Crusades. At any rate, Tony and Ben are attempting to wrest control over a magical and all-powerful gem that he's wielding which makes him even more powerful. The guy is strong enough to hurt Thing and shrug off his blows, but what I find to be really impressive on Tony's part is that he can tank Prestor John's strikes while he's wielding a sword. They do not pierce or scratch his armor at all. John is even surprised by this. Later, Thing comes back and tries trading blows with Prestor John once again and Tony observes that they are too evenly matched to get anywhere. Tony's strategy changes and instead of taking him out via brute force, he decides to disarm the gem and take his power away.

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To me, this fight showcases Iron Man's skill and strategic thinking in a combat situation. If it weren't for him, Thing would just trade blows with Prestor John all day long and possibly destroy the whole oil rig. However, since Tony was there he decided to distract Prestor John with weakened repulsors while Ben grabs the gem and tosses it away. This leads to a clean and quick victory. It also showcases Iron Man's piercing durability since he managed to nearly shrug off a piercing attack from a character that is, according to Tony, evenly matched with the Thing. Before this scuffle though, Iron Man and Thing confronted Prestor John and his gem was used to hypnotize/paralyze them. Tony slightly resisted it because John hit him with a less potent blast, but they manage to break one another out of the trance by administering a sudden shock of pain to one another:

So here proves that Iron Man can hurt the Thing, but that Iron Man can also withstand a hit from Thing as well.
So here proves that Iron Man can hurt the Thing, but that Iron Man can also withstand a hit from Thing as well.

Another instance comes from an issue of Fantastic Four where Quasimodo, a genius rival of Reed Richards, tries to destroy the Fantastic Four by employing an imposter Iron Man armor to steal the Baxter Building and its tech. It is extremely successful:

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This Iron Imposter manages to single-handedly take out the entire Fantastic Four. Scan 1: "Iron Man" is shown flying toward the Baxter Building; Scan 2: The Iron Imposter smashes through the window to break in and knocks over Mr. Fantastic. Johnny gets angry and starts hurling fire balls at him which are dodged casually. He then responds in kind by blasting him with his repulsors which send him flying against the computer network. Ben gets mad and decides to tear a large piece of the machinery from the wall; Scan 3: Ben throws the machinery at the Iron Imposter which is ineffective as its repulsor rays melt it before it reaches him. The armor then flies toward Thing (faster than Sue can erect a force-field to trap him in) and uses its jet boosters to blast Ben which sends him through the Baxter Building walls and outside to fall over two dozen stories. Thing comments on how "Iron Man" must have been packing "mini sized Galactuses" in his boots which indicates pain. Reed goes after Ben to save him; Scan 4: Reed saves Thing and they have to climb many stories to get back up; Scan 5: The Invisible Woman traps this Iron Imposter into a force-field, but he then blasts through her shields and "scatters the atoms of Sue's force field into nothingness". She then goes invisible and tries to run. It's implied that he can detect her via radar or some form of advanced scanning technology and shoots just close enough at her to lead her to a room where he closes and locks the door on her. She is not his mission. Johnny finally recovers and blasts the Iron Imposter with a "high intensity heat blast" which does nothing. The Iron Imposter grabs him; Scan 6: The Iron Imposter throws Johnny into more machinery like "a rag doll" and then monkeys around with some of the Baxter Building's controls. Thing and Reed arrive, but a desk is launched at them. Thing punches it and breaks it, but it's too late; Scan 7: The Baxter Building flies off to Quasimodo.

This Iron Imposter wrecks the Fantastic Four pretty good. Later, the real Iron Man is confronted and eventually helps them find and defeat Quasimodo. When they find him, Iron Man fights the Iron Imposter while the Fantastic Four fights Quasimodo:

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Scan 1: Tony notices that the Iron Imposter is getting ready to attack, so he blasts it and then blitzes. It recovers instantly and then blasts Iron Man with the same repulsor ray that destroyed Sue's force-field and harmed Thing; Scan 2: Iron Man comments on how a power blast won't do much to him. He then tackles the Iron Imposter through a window; Scan 3: Tony comments on how the Iron Imposter is nearly as strong as he is and that he needs to expend its energy in order to defeat it. Basically, the robot is too even with Stark and depowering it is the only way he can guarantee a swift victory. Especially against an armor that doesn't tire like he does. Stark lifts up a tree and launches it at the Iron Imposter with the speed of a "flashing missile"; Scan 4: The Iron Imposter blasts and vaporizes the tree before it reaches him and Tony is impressed. Tony admits that he cannot siphon its power because it has too much, so instead he pours his armor energy into it in order to attempt to overload it; Scan 5: Although Tony struggled, it's evident that he succeeded in overloading and defeating the armor.

I decided to add this to the section because Thing, with the help and backup of the Fantastic Four, were stomped by Quasimodo's Iron Man armor. The Iron Imposter then went on to fight the real Iron Man and lost. However, their stats seemed to be very comparable and Tony knew that they were too even to have a fight through brute force alone. He didn't want to have an extended battle with it, so he decided to cut the fight short by messing with its power levels for the win. He clearly did better against the Iron Imposter than the Fantastic Four did and I'd wager that if the real Iron Man had been in the same combat scenario against them, he would have done just as well, if not better.

Another good example to draw from is Marvel Feature issue 12. This issue takes place in the desert and is basically a team up with Iron Man and Thing against the Blood Brothers which are pawns of Thanos. They had fought Iron Man and Drax in the past. This issue seems to have a similar set up where a team up and brawl occurs. The issue starts off with Iron Man stumbling across the Blood Brothers and fighting them by himself. Admittedly, he gets beaten pretty badly. These characters are essentially in his power level/tier, but since there are two of them against one they have a distinct advantage:

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Scan 1: In case there are any more skeptical lowballing derailers, I decided to add this scan of the Blood Brothers asking for permission from Thanos to KILL Iron Man. So yes, that means they weren't holding back; Scan 2: One of the Blood Brothers jumps on top of Iron Man and slams him. Tony grunts out in pain; Scan 3: Tony claims that one is a match for him and that with two it's murder. This is as he gets kicked away. Iron Man blasts one of them with his repulsors which stuns him, but also comments on how by the time one recovers the other one will just attack. He then decides to take to the air; Scan 4: One of the Blood Brothers grabs Tony violently from the air and slams him down. They try to hold him down to rip him apart, but Tony lets them so he can blast them and knock them off balance so he can escape; Scan 5: Iron Man gets out of range, but fails to see what is in front of him. He heads right for Thing; Scan 6: Just by flying into the Thing, it looks like both were knocked unconscious.

It should be noted that the way Iron Man's power levels/battery fluctuates is based on how much punishment he takes or how much energy he's expending by fighting. Super powered punches, lifting immensely heavy objects, blasting highly potent repulsor rays, and withstanding rough impacts will all lower his energy/power levels. It has been proven that Iron Man becomes exponentially weaker while his power is weakened. Both his durability and offensive output is lowered significantly. With his power lower, his shields on his suit are weaker. Less protection means less durability. I'd argue that Iron Man was pretty low on power at this point and definitely not 100% which is why he falls unconscious after slamming into Thing. I'm just curious what Thing's excuse was? He was knocked unconscious just like Iron Man despite not fighting two opponents near his power level. To be fair, Thing does recover much quicker than Tony does, but you can tell that he's still very groggy:

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Scan 1: One of the Blood Brothers comments on how he's impressed by Thing's quick recovery. One of them punches Thing which sends him back on the floor where he seems to lay for awhile. To me, it seems like Thing is pretty out of it. I personally think that it's because of his collision with Iron Man; Scan 2: Thanos once again comments on how he wants both the Earth heroes destroyed. Thing comments on how he wants to fight the Blood Brothers, but he's "too weak" to stop them. I honestly doubt that ONE single punch from one of the Blood Brothers made him "weak" and as stunned as he is shown in scans 1 and 2. I mean Thing appears to be blacking out too. He's out of it. He's lying still on the floor and suddenly he is energized by being bitten by one of the Blood Brothers; Scan 3: Thing seems re-energized by adrenaline and anger. When he realizes they were trying to bite and suck his blood he gets pissed and starts clobberin'. One of the Blood Brothers appears to be stunned from his hit; Scan 4: Thing is launched away by the other Blood Brother, but Thing manages to lift up the rock from which he is standing to knock him over. The other Blood Brother recovers and runs at him. They both hit Thing and he grunts out in pain while admitting to himself that he cannot stop them. Iron Man is shown recuperating.

Thing seems stunned and groggy at the beginning and I think it's clear about why. Iron Man's collision with him not only briefly KO'd him, but when he woke up and recovered (a page later, to be fair) he wasn't quite 100%. He was nearly KO'd and out of the fight from ONE single Blood Brother punch after Tony flew into him by accident. It's not until he gets angry from the bite that he starts to fight back, but as they pile on he realizes that he's overwhelmed and loses confidence. Luckily for Ben, Iron Man joins the fray:

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Scan 1: Iron Man finally wakes up, but seeing his ally in need of help gives him a new inner resolve. He is ready to fight. The narrator comments on how the air crackles with renewed energy and then alludes to the reasoning being either due to his inner resolve or due to his armor being RECHARGED via solar batteries (which implies that he was indeed low on power and after laying in the sun for a bit managed to gain power back). Iron Man blitzes the Blood Brothers and saves Thing who is laying on the ground helpless. He even thinks to himself that shellhead came in the nick of time; Scan 2: The brawl begins. They trade blows with one another. Iron Man gets hit and then hits back. Thing hits one and then gets hit back. The Earth itself is described as quivering in pain; Scan 3: They keep trading blows with one another until the shockwaves from their blows shake the Earth enough to actually knock a mountain over on top of all of them; Scan 4: Iron Man blasts one and Thing hits the other. The landslide caught them napping. Tony and Ben recovered from the mountain falling on top of them instantly and broke out just as fast. Iron Man decides to grab Thing in order to swing him at rapid speeds for a mega punch; Scan 5: The swinging punch results in the Blood Brother KO'd. His brother witnesses this and seems scared. Iron Man and Thing punch him at the same time which leads to another KO; Scan 6: Thanos blasts them away due to their failure. Iron Man expresses apologetically to Ben that he cannot bring him along because a majority of his power levels were drained from the fight and that his extra weight would prevent him from making it back.

All in all, Marvel Feature issue 12 serves to prove that Iron Man without full power is capable of KO'ing and then weakening Thing just by ACCIDENTALLY flying into him. Imagine if he actually tried to blitz Thing or did so with full power. I mean the very fact that he didn't see where he was going probably made the impact on himself much worse than it would have been if he had protected his head. Also, it should be noted that Thing had been trading blows with the Blood Brothers for several pages outside and their fight never led to shockwaves which tore down a mountain. It was only after Iron Man joined the fray that these vibrations occurred. Other than that, Iron Man and Thing seemed to be portrayed as relative equals to be fair. Both Iron Man AND Thing were getting wrecked individually when they fought the Blood Brothers, but with each other's help they were able to ultimately beat them. The only reason they had issues was due to the numbers disadvantage, but with the odds evened they beat them handily. In case you are curious or even skeptical about the mountain in question, here's an image of how big it was:

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They were fighting right outside the headquarters. These were not small mountains by any means. Nor were they desert cliffs.

There was also that time Infamous Iron Man, AKA Victor Von Doom using Tony's armor before he went into a coma, casually caught and overpowered Thing's punch while armoring up:

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Some may be skeptical that it is indeed Stark tech, but it's pretty clear based on these scans:

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He literally breaks into Stark's lab in scans 1-2 and tells the A.I. that he's going to take the mantle of Iron Man from now on. Thing comments on how Doom is wearing someone else's armor. Villains confirm that Doom is only using Stark tech, but still using magic too.

So Thing's punch was not only casually reacted to while Doom was armoring up, but when he caught the punch it literally did no damage or harm to Doom or his armor and he managed to stop that force dead in its tracks.

One of the most recent examples of an Iron Man armor doing well against Ben Grimm comes from an issue of the Punisher who had acquired a War Machine armor up until he willingly gave it back to Rhodey:

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War Machine flies into Ben which takes the wind out of him and makes him grunt out in pain saying, "Oof!"

Thing is harmed and taken back a bit by this, but he braces himself and puts Frank Castle into a bear hug where he does seem to overpower him. Frank then decides to make use of his turret on his shoulder which seems to hurt Thing. At least, it seems to hurt him enough for let go and slowly fall over. Luke Cage is shown ripping the turret from his shoulder (which is ignored) and Frank gets on top of the fallen Thing in order to repeatedly punch him in the face. Thing begs his allies to get Castle off of him as he lies there helplessly (and continues to do so for a couple pages). This is impressive for many reasons. As some may know, Thing gets stronger the longer he's exposed to cosmic radiation over the years, whereas the Punisher was using an outdated and older iteration of the War Machine armor from the "late eighties".

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So this isn't even new or modern Stark technology that's being used to casually wreck Thing here. Also, Frank instructed the armor not to blast any of the Avengers he was fighting with lethal force, so when Thing just stood there and no-sold War Machine's repulsors earlier in the fight, that's why.

The rest of the scans that I'm going to post are just of Iron Man armors simply hurting Thing with his repulsor rays. Like I said before, there really aren't that many instances of Iron Man/War Machine showing vast superiority like there has been with other mid tiers.

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Scan 1: In an issue of West Coast Avengers, Wonder Man and Iron Man are mind-controlled and instructed to fight Thing. As Ben punches Wonder Man, Iron Man flies in and blasts Thing from behind. Thing says, "yeoww!" Scan 2: Iron Man blasts Thing with a volley of repulsor rays and Thing "rolls with the impact", but Ben comments that they were pulling their punches and that he wouldn't want to tank another hit like that. So despite Iron Man, who makes it evident he doesn't want a fight and was holding back, Thing still comments on how he doesn't want to take more of those holding back repulsor blasts. Imagine what a serious or non-holding back blast would have done to Ben. Scan 3: The Super Adaptoid (with the adapted powers of Iron Man) blasts Thing from the palms of his hands (like real repulsors) and Ben screams out in pain. He even comments on how they felt like the real thing.

If you read the top part with Colossus, you'd see that Iron Man casually stomped Gorgon of the Inhumans while Colossus was trading blows with him and struggled for a KO. The same thing happened with Thing:

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Again, Iron Man blasted him once and he was limping away and needed help to walk.

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#5 Posted by Lord_Spectrum (4244 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man is one heck of powerful character, who is underrated as hell.

He has some good feats really, for example in Hyperion #6 (2016), Iron Man was capable of disabling Hyperion, then his armor was a bit "damaged"(which seemed rather PIS given it takes far more damage to affect IM's armor than that) and Hyperion was freed.

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#6 Edited by KrleAvenger (26171 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: Impressive my friend. Very impressive. I will come back next week to add some scans.

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#7 Edited by KrleAvenger (26171 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord_spectrum: Damn right he is. Cool scans. Tony also tanked blows from Hyperion.

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#8 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16436 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice work

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#10 Posted by Tantani (2943 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice work

I will drop few scans later today

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#11 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by Tantani (2943 posts) - - Show Bio
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has a tie with modok who can hurt hulk with his beam

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match vision beam easely (again) and hurt him with a punch

I will add more later

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#13 Posted by Adriusus (3235 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemating and hurting Vision with repulsors and strikes aren't impressive at all. It shows how weak that ANAD armor is. Classic Armor one-shotted and overpowered Vision, yet this one coudn't.

Same goes for M.O.D.O.K., Bleeding Edge Iron Man one-shotted and overpowered him.

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#14 Edited by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

Ms. Marvel -- Continued

Should be noted that Ms. Marvel also had trouble hurting Fin Fang Foom while blitzing him at high speeds:

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Failed once again to make him scream out in pain like Tony did. You see the same thing with Skadi, or better known as Sin the Red Skull's daughter, amped by Asgardian enchanted hammers:

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Seems like her best energy projection simply brought Skadi to her knees. She recovers swimmingly.

Meanwhile, Iron Man's damaged and remote controlled armors were making her grunt out in pain and actually overwhelming her:

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There is also that time in Civil War II where Iron Man actually one-shots Carol by infecting his repulsors so that when she absorbs it it hurts her:

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Also, while he was distracted examining calculations and energy fluctuations that his scanners detected from Ulysses, he takes an angry beating from Carol. His suit self-repairs and he's not hurt at all:

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Ms. Marvel also recently fought Iron Heart (Riri Williams, Tony Stark's inexperienced 15 year old protege):

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Iron Heart's force-fields no-sell Carol's beam and the next scan shows Riri blasting Ms. Marvel which makes her grunt out in pain and then punch her away. This proves that Iron Heart can hurt and withstand hits from Ms. Marvel.

Should be noted that, featwise, Iron Heart is a completely inferior character to Iron Man himself. In fact, I'm pretty sure that she uses his resources and tech to build this armor and it's essentially a copy of the one that fought Carol in Civil War II.

Also, remember how Carol greatly struggled against Tiger Shark? Well let's look at how Norman Osborn's Iron Patriot armor (which is confirmed to be weaker than standard Iron Man armors and which massively struggled against Tony's cave suit) fares against him:

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She-Hulk -- Continued

In an issue of West Coast Avengers Annual 4, She-Hulk gets mind-controlled and is instructed by this individual to retrieve an object, but it is guarded by a sea monster. As she fights the sea monster, which she seems to struggle greatly with, Iron Man arrives to save her:

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He uses an electrical discharge in order to hurt the sea monster and it seems to work. It actually releases his grip of She-Hulk (which was something she couldn't do with her raw strength). However, for the sake of transparency, I should note that Iron Man's repulsors didn't do much to this beast when he blasted its hull at first. Even Wonder Man's punch doesn't do much.

After Iron Man goes under to talk to Jen to figure out a plan, she decks him:

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Not only was he not expecting this hit, but she was mind-controlled and had no reason to hold back. He grunts in pain, but he is not damaged or injured in any way by this punch. The impressive part comes 1-2 pages later:

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He defeats her off-panel. He implies that it was a one-shot since Tony says he had to "stun" her as he describes what happens. Doesn't sound like she gave him very much trouble. Not sure if he used his repulsors or punches, but since he was in close proximity to her last we saw them, I'd assume he likely decked her.

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#15 Posted by kgb725 (19544 posts) - - Show Bio

Carol went binary on the hulkbuster

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#16 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio
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@noone1996: That's ridiculous. Carol is far above Iron man it's not even funny, where has Iron man in modern days or recently outperform carol? also carol's gotten stronger over the years. and featwise she wins.

here Takes repetitive blast from Older Ironmen models and tears one in half in the process

https://imgur.com/a/JRNNV


converting 81% of a black hole into energy. which is atleast solar system level, and above Iron man

https://imgur.com/a/NB1TK

also tearing apart Iron Man armor with casual in Civil War 2. thats more recent than any of their encounter


https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/iron-man-vs-captain-marvel-civil-war-ii-3.png



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#17 Edited by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: @krleavenger: Tony never fought full on binary Carol, binary's herald level. Carol in red binary have a planet level feat, blue or even full yellow binary would beat him. Tony can't even outright destroy a planet, but if so show me. (she busted the planet against brood, and wasn't completely binary)

Also her entire character is she's always adapting, even her own recent run had her installing a device to slow herself from being amped. she's always getting stronger

Current carol losing to war machine frank doesn't make any sense. she's stronger than she was before.

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#18 Edited by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: If you actually read through the thread then you would see. In the modern day, she cannot even defeat an outdated War Machine armor being used by someone massively holding back and with the backup of several Avengers by her side. He's one-shotted a villain she's traded blows with on equal footing in his classic armor (Moonstone). He did FAR better against a Hulk-Buster than she did (despite having She-Hulk, Spider-Man, Captain America, Wolverine, Luke Cage, and Spider Woman as backup). His classic armor absorbed Spider Woman's energy sting while it harmed modern Carol. He's one-shotted an enraged (therefore amped) She-Hulk while Ms. Marvel and Jen traded blows without damaging one another. He's one-shotted Gamora while Ms. Marvel had an extended fight with her. She couldn't even hurt Fin Fang Foom while Iron Man has consistently been able to do that since before Comic Vine existed. The idea that she's "so far above Iron Man it's not funny" is just ridiculous.

Bendis portrayed Iron Man's armors as absolute fodder in that Mighty Avengers issue. He even had Ares one-shotting suits with SIMPLE BULLETS:

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Unless it's been stated that those were adamantium rounds, I don't think it's fair to assume they weren't anything more than regular ones. I mean just above that panel Ares was breaking helmets with FOOTSTEPS. That's just absurd. These things were portrayed as street level threats. Congrats, Carol. You busted an armor that wasn't even bulletproof.

The armors couldn't even withstand their own jet boosters blasting in their own face:

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Even Wonder Man was stomping them despite the fact that he and Tony have fought in the past many times and he never managed to one-shot his classic armors with as much ease as he does it here.

The black hole feat was performed while she was amped in her Binary form. Doesn't really count, but if you want to make comparisons of times that Iron Man was amped then you'll find that there's really no comparison at all:

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Manages to knock over and stun Mangog while amped with the power of a city. Should be noted that even Thor struggled to knock Mangog over in this story.
While amped from Thor's lightning, manages to hurt him with his punches. Thor even admitted he had an advantage that he should have pressed instead of worrying about his morals.
While amped from Thor's lightning, manages to hurt him with his punches. Thor even admitted he had an advantage that he should have pressed instead of worrying about his morals.
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Blows an enormous hole out of a 150 billion ton mountain.
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While amped with the Silver Surfer's power cosmic, manages to simultaneously absorb more of his power while blasting it back leading to a KO.
Terrax KO'd while amped with his own power cosmic.
Terrax KO'd while amped with his own power cosmic.
Breaks Graviton's shields while amped by the power grid of the entire South-Western American power grid.
Breaks Graviton's shields while amped by the power grid of the entire South-Western American power grid.
Uses Mjolnir's power to amp himself enough to the point that his power levels allow them to escape the event horizon of a black hole that's eating the entire universe.
Uses Mjolnir's power to amp himself enough to the point that his power levels allow them to escape the event horizon of a black hole that's eating the entire universe.

So if you want to use high end feats of a character being amped, I can assure you that isn't a game you'd win. Especially considering how poorly Binary has done in the past:

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Or failing to one-shot Rogue who only had Ms. Marvel's permanent stats at the time:

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She even sent her to the moon which proves she wasn't really holding back very much.

Or we can look at that time that she cheap-shotted Proxima Midnight with her power blast and could only make her scream out in pain and was then casually one-shotted by Thanos:

You know that this was the same chick that traded blows with Luke Cage, right?
You know that this was the same chick that traded blows with Luke Cage, right?

Actually, if you want to get technical, the last time Ms. Marvel fought an Iron Man armor was in Punisher's run against a War Machine armor and she did horrible. She not only recovered slower than Frank in their final clash in their first fight, but after she got up she decided to run away and get backup instead of fighting some more which Castle was more than willing to do. Then, with tons of backup, she still couldn't KO him in their rematch. This is a guy that confirmed multiple times through dialogue that he didn't want to kill Carol or any heroes he was fighting and he was highly inexperienced and unskilled within the armor too in comparison to Rhodey or Tony. Civil War II was some of the worst writing imaginable. Anybody that thinks that a self-repairing Hulk-Buster would lose to an unamped Ms. Marvel is either high or delusional. Especially considering her track record against Hulk himself:

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#19 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: You do know that it's been debunked that she busted a planet right? She caused a chain reaction which led to the destruction of the planet. It's not the same. Iron Man would probably be outclassed by Binary admittedly, but the idea that she's a planet buster is not true and even if it were he's done much better against people way more powerful than her.

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#20 Posted by just_sayin (3515 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it is fair to say that with the upgrades in his armor over the years that Stark is probably above mid-tier. Possibly low high-tier.

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#21 Edited by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio
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@noone1996: writers confirmed it wasn't a chain reaction tho. it was in fact her. (it was retconned)

Also that scan isn't much really all that a low showing .

She blast Proxima , Thanos then hits her Luke didn't actually beat proxima either Thanos came in and stopped her

and recently Carol had two occurrences that somewhat admitted she held back against moonstone .

LOL show where Tony's defeated beings more powerful than her. Binary Carol would trash him. featwise he doesn't come close, havent even seen him destroy a planet outright.

.

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#22 Edited by KrleAvenger (26171 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: Binary most certainly isn't Herald tier. She got one-shotted by Gladiator. And no, she did not destroy the planet with her on power. She created a chair reaction. That's all.

That's not a retcon. That was an oversimplification of a statement/flashback.

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#23 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: It was indeed a straight retcon as it even removes her being teleported and has carol say she did it.

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#24 Edited by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio
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heres the scans BTW , Carol currently against war machine or any armor that isnt prepped for her beating her is PIS or straight ignoring her character growth .


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#25 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: That's probably the fairest thing I've ever seen you say about Iron Man.

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#26 Posted by KrleAvenger (26171 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: That's not how retcons work. Retcons are well explained and established things that contradict already established information, but do it in a way that makes sense and does not fall into the category of writer induced stupidity. What you showed is just Carol referencing what already happened but not in detailed way. Yes, she did destroy a planet. Did she do it under her own power? No. That scan is oversimplification of instance that already happened. When Carol references her past, she is not gonna think of details but important parts. Why would she say "oh yeah, I created that special chain reaction to destroy the world". It's irrelevant to what she's trying to say. What's important is that she destroyed the world. That's it. It is what it is. Oversimplification. Not a retcon.

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#27 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: Its a retcon , and that is how retcons work and that mainly how marvel has been retconning recent stuff so that it fits current canon.

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#28 Edited by just_sayin (3515 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Iron-Man has become a low high-tier hero within Marvel. However, I feel that some of the scans are selective. While Iron-Man has fought Giants and won, he has lost in fights to these "mid-tiers" also. For instance Pym has defeated Iron-Man and Iron-Man knock-offs as Ant-Man, Yellowjacket, Giant-Man, as red jumpsuit Dr Pym, and as Pymtron. Pym has also "bagged" Iron-Man's Rogue Gallery with ease.

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#29 Edited by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: Awww, you were being so fair and now you're back to being ignorant. Hank Pym has literally never defeated Iron Man before. Don't be upset that the same isn't true for Tony. The first scan doesn't do anything more than bother him (this wouldn't work on any modern armors because he doesn't have open mouth and eye slits like he did back then) and he literally pumps them out with simple ventilation systems:

If this coward hadn't attacked Iron Man with a cheap-shot then he would have lowered his eye and mouth slits fast enough so the bugs didn't get in. However, since he didn't know he was in a combat scenario, he was at a disadvantage.

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So this literally does nothing except annoy him for a minute or two.

Yellowjacket literally didn't even knock Iron Man out in that blast. All he did was knock him down and even Hank admits that it's "only for a moment". He's literally back up moments later:

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Literally the next page shows Tony up and swatting Pym like the insect tier hero he is. Should be noted that they admitted they were holding back.

In fact, Yellowjacket's stings are so useless that Tony literally no-sells them pages before the out of context one that you posted:

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Just like his stings have been no-sold by other mid tiers (which Iron Man is shown superiority over in my posts):

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...like Vision and She-Hulk.

Let's see what happens when Yellowjacket tries to punch Iron Man:

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Would you look at that? He hurts himself hitting Iron Man. Ouch.

That scan of Giant Man squeezing Iron Man doesn't really prove all that much. There's no evidence that Tony was even being harmed by his angry assault. Also no evidence that the armor was damaged or not functional. Cosmetic damage at best. However, if you want to compare Iron Man and Pym from that run we can look at the fact that Kang's giant energy form was stomping Hank into the ground and Tony came in to save him:

Maybe I should have added this scan to the "Giants" section of my thread too.

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What's even funnier is that Kang is just lying to Pym about his mental breakdowns.

Not only did Pym use trickery and cowardice to trick War Machine into getting close so he could touch him (which is pathetically the only way he can shrink people which is kind of inefficient against someone that has flight or speed advantages over Pym), but his plan doesn't even work as he shrinks Rhodey as he and his allies get wrecked by a War Machine that's only the size of a mouse:

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Pym even gets stomped by Whiplash while he's busy struggling against a mini War Machine.

Then War Machine, while still the size of a rodent, manages to save Pym's life and defeats the villains with the help of Wasp. AFTER War Machine defeats them Pym is able to shrink their unconscious bodies and place them in a plastic bag.

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While Pym is unconscious, War Machine and Hank's wife are saving the day. After he wakes up, he bags them up and you conveniently and dishonestly cropped the image as if Pym did something when in reality he did nothing.

As for the Ultron scans, I really don't see what that proves. Just because he has the face of Hank Pym on his body that doesn't mean any of his feats transfer over to Ant-Man. It's Ultron. Hank Pym's soul is trapped inside of Ultron's body, so those scans literally prove nothing. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/hank-pym/4005-2247/forums/pymtron-is-not-hank-pym-1958891/.

However, instead of just being on defense here and debunking your poor out of context excuses for feats, I can show Iron Man stomping Pym in a sparring match against Rover:

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I'd post more, but I already have enough scans above in the "Giants" section of Hank saying, "uncle" after Tony stomped him.

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#30 Posted by Amonfire1776 (3174 posts) - - Show Bio

With prep Tony can even beat people on a universal level...

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#31 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123:

Like Krle said, it was just simplified by Carol's description. That doesn't mean it was retconned.

Which isn't "that low of a showing"? The time that she was one-shotted by Gladiator while amped? A guy that's not even Hulk or Thor tier?

She couldn't one-shot a character, while amped, that Luke Cage was hurting. That's sad. She was also one-shotted by Thanos while amped to "black hole" and "planet busting" levels. Funny how many hits a weakened and dying Thanos withstood from Binary Carol too despite all the backup she had.

She was still trying to incap and knock out Moonstone and failed. Do you think Iron Man wasn't holding back against Karla? He was just trying to KO her. It's not like he tried to kill her.

Did you not see the scans I posted? While amped, he's literally defeated Terrax, tied with Silver Surfer (both were KO'd), broke Graviton's shields, stunned Mangog, hurt Thor with punches, escaped the pull of a black hole which was slowly destroying the universe (after combining his power with Mjolnir), etc. Pretty sure all of that is above causing a chain reaction which led to a planet's demise. I don't understand why you are even talking about Binary anyway. Carol isn't in that form 24/7 and it's not standard. However, if we're talking about amped feats and showings, Tony's blow hers out of the water.

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#32 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: Those showings were Tony amped by other people powers, not by his. Binary is Carol's own power so it counts. Tony at standard levels/base without being amped has never fought people more powerful than Carol.

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#33 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: ..............Carol cannot become Binary without other people's powers....... Without HER using Binary, she's the one that's massively outclassed.

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#34 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: and I showed that carol gets stronger overtime, did you not know about her adaptability? and Iron Man doesn't consistently beat thor level beings, nor Hulk so not sure why her being one shotted by thor is supposed to be prove anything. iron Man isn't on thor level either, he's outclassed too.
seeing Carol be hurt by war machine or even the iron patriot scan when shes supposed to absorb or reflect energy is WIS .

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#35 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: ....just like Iron Man's armors UPGRADE over time. Did you not know that about his ingenuity? Iron Man consistently puts up a good fight against high tiers though unlike Carol who, even while amped, still gets her ass handed to her. I'd like to see you make a "Ms. Marvel vs Mid Tiers" thread and see how fast you run out of scans of her operating against mid tiers the same way Tony does consistently. She doesn't automatically absorb all energy. If she doesn't see it coming she cannot consciously absorb it.

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#36 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: the war machine armor worn by Frank didn't upgrade overtime though, so irrelevant. Lol high tiers? Sure, would love to see them.

Thing about Carol is she's always getting stronger unlike Iron Man armors.

I'm sure TONY has just as much low ends as Carol does.

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#37 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: Exactly, which should serve to prove just how much of a gap there is between the two of them. Especially when the War Machine already stomped her in the 90s. Do you want me to scan bomb the thread with instances of Iron Man fighting and holding his own against high tiers while simultaneously showing Carol being one-shotted by those same characters? Three instances have already been posted in this thread (Hulk, Hercules, and Thor), but I'm sure I can find more. Meanwhile, Iron Man has had extended fights with all of them. He always loses, but he does decent. I could also bomb this thread with scans of Tony upgrading and outright saying that the upgrades/modifications he's making to his armor surpass its predecessors. The difference between Tony's low showings and Carol's are that I could probably counter 90% of them with other scans that prove those bad showings inconsistent or out of context. Read through the Namor section I made and tell me that it makes sense that an upgraded and far more powerful version of Iron Man (Extremis armor) was no-sold and one-shotted by the Sub-Mariner during an issue of Illuminati written by Bendis. It just doesn't make logical sense from a consistency standpoint.

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#38 Edited by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: Yes by all means. BNecause that was ignorant to say that Iron man outclasses her wtf. I can understand if you claimed tony was a lil bit above her? but "far out classes her" hahahaha i'm not convinced on that. at. all

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#39 Posted by just_sayin (3515 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: Awww, you were being so fair and now you're back to being ignorant. Hank Pym has literally never defeated Iron Man before. Don't be upset that the same isn't true for Tony. The first scan doesn't do anything more than bother him (this wouldn't work on any modern armors because he doesn't have open mouth and eye slits like he did back then) and he literally pumps them out with simple ventilation systems:

If this coward hadn't attacked Iron Man with a cheap-shot then he would have lowered his eye and mouth slits fast enough so the bugs didn't get in. However, since he didn't know he was in a combat scenario, he was at a disadvantage.

So this literally does nothing except annoy him for a minute or two.

Yellowjacket literally didn't even knock Iron Man out in that blast. All he did was knock him down and even Hank admits that it's "only for a moment". He's literally back up moments later:

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Literally the next page shows Tony up and swatting Pym like the insect tier hero he is. Should be noted that they admitted they were holding back.

In fact, Yellowjacket's stings are so useless that Tony literally no-sells them pages before the out of context one that you posted:

Just like his stings have been no-sold by other mid tiers (which Iron Man is shown superiority over in my posts):

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...like Vision and She-Hulk.

Let's see what happens when Yellowjacket tries to punch Iron Man:

Would you look at that? He hurts himself hitting Iron Man. Ouch.

That scan of Giant Man squeezing Iron Man doesn't really prove all that much. There's no evidence that Tony was even being harmed by his angry assault. Also no evidence that the armor was damaged or not functional. Cosmetic damage at best. However, if you want to compare Iron Man and Pym from that run we can look at the fact that Kang's giant energy form was stomping Hank into the ground and Tony came in to save him:

Maybe I should have added this scan to the "Giants" section of my thread too.

What's even funnier is that Kang is just lying to Pym about his mental breakdowns.

Not only did Pym use trickery and cowardice to trick War Machine into getting close so he could touch him (which is pathetically the only way he can shrink people which is kind of inefficient against someone that has flight or speed advantages over Pym), but his plan doesn't even work as he shrinks Rhodey as he and his allies get wrecked by a War Machine that's only the size of a mouse:

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Pym even gets stomped by Whiplash while he's busy struggling against a mini War Machine.

Then War Machine, while still the size of a rodent, manages to save Pym's life and defeats the villains with the help of Wasp. AFTER War Machine defeats them Pym is able to shrink their unconscious bodies and place them in a plastic bag.

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While Pym is unconscious, War Machine and Hank's wife are saving the day. After he wakes up, he bags them up and you conveniently and dishonestly cropped the image as if Pym did something when in reality he did nothing.

As for the Ultron scans, I really don't see what that proves. Just because he has the face of Hank Pym on his body that doesn't mean any of his feats transfer over to Ant-Man. It's Ultron. Hank Pym's soul is trapped inside of Ultron's body, so those scans literally prove nothing. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/hank-pym/4005-2247/forums/pymtron-is-not-hank-pym-1958891/.

However, instead of just being on defense here and debunking your poor out of context excuses for feats, I can show Iron Man stomping Pym in a sparring match against Rover:

I'd post more, but I already have enough scans above in the "Giants" section of Hank saying, "uncle" after Tony stomped him.

I get you are a big Iron-Man fan and seem to live vicariously through the character, but Pym has beaten Stark several times. You can "no sell" it, like a Braun Strowman wrestling match, all you want, it does not change what has transpired in the comics.

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Ant-Man - Incapacitated Iron-Man long enough to fight a long list of Avengers such as Captain America, Black Panther, Beast, Wonder-Man, Scarlet Witch, and Vision. Your excuse is Stark didn't know he was in a battle scenario. So, you want to claim that Iron-Man is more than mid-tier, but he needs advanced notice in order to win a fight with a guy less than half an inch tall. Dude, you are hurting your own claim here.

Yellowjacket - left Iron-Man laying on the ground. Now as far as knocked out goes: Yellowjacket implies he has knocked them out, Iron_man is laying flat on the ground, and Yellowjacket flies away talking to himself and then talks to Jan - so just how long do you need Iron-Man to be laying face down on the ground for? Does Pym need to knock him out, go to Buffalo Wild Wings and watch a couple of football games, go grocery shopping, put away the groceries, pay bills, wash, dry and fold his clothes, and then crochet a quilt, before enough time has elapsed that you would admit that Iron-Man lost? If it was boxing or MMA, the match would be over. I'm sure you'll argue Stark was "resting" or playing "possum". But to the rest of the world - he got beat.

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Giant-Man was crushing Iron-Man. Iron-Man says Giant-Man was crushing him, the crunching sounds on the panel say Giant-Man is crushing him. Hercules who is pleading for Tony's life suggests that Pym is crushing him. And when Pym lets him go and Stark falls haplessly to the ground - that's an indication that Stark didn't win.

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I know you argue that Pymtron is not Pym. And that's partly true. Part of Pymtron is Ultron too. And until recently when Pym's spirit was removed from Ultron, they were both joined together - that is canon. So to recap - Iron-Man has been stomped by mid-tier heroes.

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#40 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: If you've read through this entire thread and are still not convinced that she is outclassed then there won't be anything that will. I mean look at every fight Carol has had in comparison to some of the characters Tony stomped. It's like night and day.

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#41 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: sure but you claimed Iron Man does better against high tiers like Thor level beings and Hulk, etc than Cap Marvel and I would like to see that. From what I remember, it's always either them holding back or with Tony getting his ass kicked.

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#42 Edited by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: That doesn't prove he "beat him". All he did was distract him for a little bit with bugs but ultimately he didn't hurt him, incapacitate him, KO him, or damage his armor. You're especially ignoring the fact that, if he had been ready, the bugs wouldn't have entered his armor, his modern armors don't have that issue, and that his ventilation system took them all out anyway. Pym did nothing except waste Tony's time. Just like sucker punching him and knocking him on the floor did nothing. If Tony fought back, he would have one shotted just like Pym is shown being one shotted in this thread.

First of all, there's no evidence that he knocked him out. All we see is that he knocked Tony over, but even pages before that we see the same thing. Second of all, even if he did knock him out it would have literally been for around 10 seconds if you calculate how much time it took for Wasp to talk to him. So either way you slice it, it's unimpressive and doesn't count as a win. I've already demonstrated that Tony's stats are superior to She-Hulk and Vision who I already showed no selling these stings.

He doesn't say he's crushing him. He says he's crushing the armor and you hear cracking noises, but that could just be the outer layers of the armor's metal which would ultimately be cosmetic damage and still allow the suit to be functional. If he wasn't even fully armored and he wasn't feeling any pain or discomfort, I'm positive that Hank wasn't doing any sort of damage. But keep desperately holding onto that scan for dear life because we all know that's the best you got. Sad.

It doesn't matter if they were joined together. It's Ultron that's in control and it's Ultron's power that's being used to take on heroes. Pym has nothing to do with any of his feats. If anything, Pym makes Ultron weaker since he screams out in pain more often than Ultron ever did.

To recap, that was Thanos stepping on his hand and you haven't proven anything. Actually, the only thing you've proven is that you are so petty and biased that you would be willing to change an original comment you made about Tony being a low high tier to saying he gets "stomped" by mid tiers just to troll/derail me. Honestly pathetic when your intellectual integrity depends on whether you like someone or not. Get out of my thread with your sad attempts to derail and lowball Iron Man. Stick to political threads because your battle forum debating skills are lacking.

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#43 Posted by just_sayin (3515 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: That doesn't prove he "beat him". All he did was distract him for a little bit with bugs but ultimately he didn't hurt him, incapacitate him, KO him, or damage his armor. You're especially ignoring the fact that, if he had been ready, the bugs wouldn't have entered his armor, his modern armors don't have that issue, and that his ventilation system took them all out anyway. Pym did nothing except waste Tony's time. Just like sucker punching him and knocking him on the floor did nothing. If Tony fought back, he would have one shotted just like Pym is shown being one shotted in this thread.

A guy half an inch high, took Iron-Man out of the fight, while he was fighting a half a dozen other Avengers in addition to taking on Stark.

You are right, his modern armors don't have the issue with the eye slits. That's why Ant-Man had to save Iron-Man's life when the fail safe failed and they wouldn't open up and Stark almost suffocated.

First of all, there's no evidence that he knocked him out. All we see is that he knocked Tony over, but even pages before that we see the same thing. Second of all, even if he did knock him out it would have literally been for around 10 seconds if you calculate how much time it took for Wasp to talk to him. So either way you slice it, it's unimpressive and doesn't count as a win. I've already demonstrated that Tony's stats are superior to She-Hulk and Vision who I already showed no selling these stings.

You know you are right. All we see is Pym saying the blast will knock them out, then we see the bodies of Captain America and Iron-Man laying on the ground as Yellowjacket flies away and saying they are down. No evidence there at all.

He doesn't say he's crushing him. He says he's crushing the armor and you hear cracking noises, but that could just be the outer layers of the armor's metal which would ultimately be cosmetic damage and still allow the suit to be functional. If he wasn't even fully armored and he wasn't feeling any pain or discomfort, I'm positive that Hank wasn't doing any sort of damage. But keep desperately holding onto that scan for dear life because we all know that's the best you got. Sad.

Iron-Man says Pym is crushing his armor. Hercules, begs Pym to let Iron-Man go. When someone is begging your opponent to not kill you, that's usually an indication that you are losing the fight. But keep dreaming your dream.

It doesn't matter if they were joined together. It's Ultron that's in control and it's Ultron's power that's being used to take on heroes. Pym has nothing to do with any of his feats. If anything, Pym makes Ultron weaker since he screams out in pain more often than Ultron ever did.

If its all Ultron, then why is Ultron 50 feet tall?

To recap, that was Thanos stepping on his hand and you haven't proven anything. Actually, the only thing you've proven is that you are so petty and biased that you would be willing to change an original comment you made about Tony being a low high tier to saying he gets "stomped" by mid tiers just to troll/derail me. Honestly pathetic when your intellectual integrity depends on whether you like someone or not. Get out of my thread with your sad attempts to derail and lowball Iron Man. Stick to political threads because your battle forum debating skills are lacking.

I do believe that the Iron-Man character has become a low high-tier character. But that doesn't mean, I pretend that he didn't get beaten when he did. Iron-Man has not only been beaten by Ant-Man he's been beaten by a lot of street levelers too - that doesn't mean that he isn't a force to be reckoned with. Its comics man.

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#44 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin:

A guy half an inch high, took Iron-Man out of the fight, while he was fighting a half a dozen other Avengers in addition to taking on Stark.

He didn't take on Stark. He distracted him. Period. If the fight was still going on, he wouldn't have been able to do anything to Tony except hurt his hand hitting him like in the past. His Ant-Man suits pale in comparison to Iron Man's armors. Just look at how Hank's prototype handles a holding back Iron Man:

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"Perfected and completed"

He should stick with studying bugs. Suits aren't his thing.

You are right, his modern armors don't have the issue with the eye slits. That's why Ant-Man had to save Iron-Man's life when the fail safe failed and they wouldn't open up and Stark almost suffocated.

Do you even know how his armor became sealed like that? It's because he put his armor into override and KO'd the freaking Hulk. How does Hank compare to the green goliath?

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It's actually pretty hilarious how your pathetic debating style works. You use the moving the goal post fallacy where you lose and concede on a subject in a subtle way, but then shift the argument to keep the debate going and to keep your credibility up. I noticed though. You aren't that clever. You lost on this part about Tony's modern armors not having mouth and eye slits, so you shifted the argument about something irrelevant. I thought we were talking about Tony's combat stats? No, you just wanted to throw in there that Scott Lang, with an Ant-Man suit, helped Tony (as if that somehow proves something?). I debunk point after point and you just provide more and more to stack on top of your failure to cover up the fact that you are getting your ass kicked right now.

You know you are right. All we see is Pym saying the blast will knock them out, then we see the bodies of Captain America and Iron-Man laying on the ground as Yellowjacket flies away and saying they are down. No evidence there at all.

No, we don't see them get knocked out. Lying on the ground could mean they were just knocked over... Stunned. There's no evidence that their eyes were closed. No evidence they were sleeping. No proof at all. Also, you may not want to go off of Hank's statements because they end up hurting your argument. For him to say, "if only for moments" when talking about how long they were taken out for, that must mean he saw them moving and predicted that they'd be back up again soon. He knew he wasn't doing anything.

Iron-Man says Pym is crushing his armor. Hercules, begs Pym to let Iron-Man go. When someone is begging your opponent to not kill you, that's usually an indication that you are losing the fight. But keep dreaming your dream.

So because Hercules tells Hank to stop that means Iron Man lost the fight? What kind of logic is that? Hank wasn't even hurting Tony. Why wasn't he grunting or screaming out in pain if his armor was breaking? Now, if you want to talk about begging....

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Uncle.

If its all Ultron, then why is Ultron 50 feet tall?

Dude, you are literally just ignoring clear cut established facts at this point. Ultron admits that he isn't Hank and that he put on that entire show and gave the heroes the cosmic cube piece to keep things interesting and avoid peace. Hank's soul is shown stuck inside of Ultron. You have no proof that Pym is, even partially, in control. The burden of proof is on YOU. Besides, you act like Ultron cannot make himself big if he wanted to. Absolutely ridiculous.

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Yeah, Ultron's never been big before.

I do believe that the Iron-Man character has become a low high-tier character. But that doesn't mean, I pretend that he didn't get beaten when he did. Iron-Man has not only been beaten by Ant-Man he's been beaten by a lot of street levelers too - that doesn't mean that he isn't a force to be reckoned with. Its comics man.

You are contradicting yourself then. How can he be a low high tier if he gets "stomped" by mid tiers or street levelers? You are trying to save your credibility about your objectivity and lack of bias, but you are failing tremendously just like left wing mainstream media. You made a positive/fair comment and then I jokingly responded which got you upset over and triggered a measuring contest. It's funny that you accuse me of being the one living vicariously through Stark though. Irony is fun.

I'm not "pretending" anything. You are. Bothering Iron Man with ants for a minute or two isn't beating him. Squeezing an armor and not even hurting Tony isn't beating him. Blasting and knocking him over for half a panel isn't beating him. Just like Cap hitting him in the face with his shield is not beating him either. Just like Cap breaking off Tony's helmet AFTER his armor was disabled by somebody else doesn't count as a win for Cap.

Everything you post is out of context, so I don't understand why you paint this picture like I'm irrational when you don't show the full story or even the full scan. Seriously, why don't you just leave the thread and stop derailing? I don't want to have an extended debate about this in my thread.

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#45 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123 said:

Fine. I might as well. This thread is going to shit by being derailed anyway. Why not include Tony's high tier fights IN ADDITION to arguments about Ms. Marvel, Binary, Ant-Man, Giant Man, Ultron, black holes AND him fighting against mid tiers????

First of all, I already posted an instance of Thor, while mind-controlled, one-shotting Ms. Marvel while Iron Man tanked a couple hits from him and then ended up winning. That's already in the Ms. Marvel section, so that's one. When you are mind-controlled, you cannot hold back. Here is another instance where Thor tries to take down Iron Man due to mind-control and fails:

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The first instance isn't that strong of a mind control (since it's only an illusion that Stark betrayed Thor and Asgard to the High Evolutionary), but a pissed off Odinson still tries to incap Tony who isn't fighting back and struggles massively. He withstands at least three hits and he's unharmed/not damaged. The second instance shows Thor mind controlled by Moondragon and it's clear that he's willing to kill his allies within this story for her. Right after he hits Tony in that second scan, he hits the Avengers with lightning that Iron Man claimed would have killed them if it hadn't been for him absorbing most of the lightning blast to protect them. Scan 3 is a Doctor Strange villain jumping from the body of nearly every Avenger and trying to kill them with each hero he possesses. Thor hits Iron Man away. The last scan is by far the most impressive. While mind-controlled by the Collector, Thor is instructed to take down Iron Man in the swiftest manner possible. At the time, Tony was low on energy and weakened from a previous battle he had fought in. He ends up withstanding 3 hits from a mind controlled Thor and is still conscious without any damages to his suit.

With his repulsors, he's managed to stagger, knock over, and forcibly cause Thor to drop his hammer:

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Rogue, with the combined powers of Ms. Marvel, Captain America, and Thor screams out in pain from Tony's repulsor rays. She even loosens her grip of Spider Woman. The second scan shows how much even a low level repulsor ray (weak enough not to damage the machine Thor is carrying) can cause Thor to weaken his grip. Imagine if he blasted him with a full powered beam.

If none of that convinces you, then let's take a look at how War Machine does:

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Consistently manages to hurt Thor and tanks a couple hits from him. Thor was likely holding back, but he was also trying to incap Rhodey. Luckily, the armor allows him to resist Loki's mind control slightly and he snaps out.

Now let's take a look at Hulk:

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Now Red Hulk gets stomped pretty hard here. He's even out of commission for a page.

Let's see how War Machine fared:

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How well did Ms. Marvel do against him again?

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Makes Hulk scream out in pain in the second scan, but the first and third shows Tony hitting Hulk so hard that he loosens his grip on Cap's shield and Thor.
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Makes Hulk scream out in pain multiple times from repulsors.
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You might argue that Hulk was holding back in the cropped image above, but here he was trying to kill Iron Man due to mind control:

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Tanks a stomp from Hulk and then withstands his brute force squeezing his helmet for over 30 seconds until he neutralizes the telepathy.

Now let's look at Hercules:

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I only posted scans of him hurting Hercules since I already showed you images of Iron Man tanking hits from him in another thread where you tried to argue Ms. Marvel was superior. The scans speak for themselves. He punches Hercules and it makes him scream/grunt out in pain. The first scan even shows him briefly stunned and out of commission for nearly a page just from one punch by Tony. As you may have guessed, this is an extended fight, but I cropped the images to avoid posting a dozen scans.

Here's Count Nefaria, an Avengers team buster capable of wiping the floor with Thor, trying to kill Iron Man:

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The funny thing is, Iron Man was low on power and weakened at the time too. He even mentions it in the dialogue.

Do you want me to post more? Because I still have over a dozen scans of him fighting high tiers. He's withstood attacks from the Destroyer armor, Loki, Annihilus, Sentry, Ulik, Ultron, Hyperion, Blue Marvel, Terrax, Kang the Conqueror, Captain Mar'Vell, a Super Skrull, etc. and he's either harmed or defeated them too. He's incapable of beating these characters through raw power on his own, but he always manages to hold his own and rarely ever gets one-shotted or stomped.

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#46 Edited by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: we've seen Thor tearing apart Iron Man armor apart once he got serious, and Doc Green already defeated Iron Man. Sentry literally beat Iron Man, why is that even an example?

Hyperion's inconsistent. Blue Marvel best feat is moon level strength wise, haven't seen Ulik, Loki, or Annihilus though

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#47 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@boogie123: I literally showed Thor fighting Iron Man seriously. He was mind controlled... As in, he couldn't control himself to restrain himself. As in, he wouldn't have been anything BUT serious. Still struggled. What instances are you referring to with Thor?? Sentry never defeated Iron Man... They traded blows (Tony gave him a bloody lip) and then Tony hacked cloc which caused him to have a mental breakdown. Iron Man won that fight. Iron Man literally fought Doc Green in a car armor and in round 2 he covered the damaged pieces of his armor in more armor instead of repairing it. Even if we take that fight at face value and assume that the car armor was actually his best Hulk-Buster, it's kind of an outlier in comparison to all of their other fights.

Hyperion 13034, the one that held back planets and fought Hulk, isn't inconsistent. Blue Marvel is still a high tier. Here is Loki:

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Blocks Loki's energy projection from an enchanted hammer via his force-fields and then decks him in the face. He then withstands another hit from Loki. After that, Iron Man flies at him which causes an explosion which sends Tony flying away. He's shown still conscious two pages later.

Withstands a blitz twice from Annihilus:

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This was the same Annihilus that was hurting and fighting Jane Foster Thor for hours.

Here is Ulik, a guy that consistently gives Thor problems:

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Here is proof that the robot that punched Iron Man was actually Ulik disguised as one by Loki:

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Here is Tony one-shotting Ulik and it's shown that he needs to be carried away when he wakes back up.

This isn't the only time in that story that Ulik is KO'd by Tony either. It's just one of three times.

Your nitpicking isn't helping your case. Just admit that Iron Man is a way better mid tier than Carol. She could never do any of these things.

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#48 Posted by just_sayin (3515 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin:

A guy half an inch high, took Iron-Man out of the fight, while he was fighting a half a dozen other Avengers in addition to taking on Stark.

He didn't take on Stark. He distracted him. Period. If the fight was still going on, he wouldn't have been able to do anything to Tony except hurt his hand hitting him like in the past. His Ant-Man suits pale in comparison to Iron Man's armors. Just look at how Hank's prototype handles a holding back Iron Man:

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"Perfected and completed"

He should stick with studying bugs. Suits aren't his thing.

You are right, his modern armors don't have the issue with the eye slits. That's why Ant-Man had to save Iron-Man's life when the fail safe failed and they wouldn't open up and Stark almost suffocated.

Do you even know how his armor became sealed like that? It's because he put his armor into override and KO'd the freaking Hulk. How does Hank compare to the green goliath?

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It's actually pretty hilarious how your pathetic debating style works. You use the moving the goal post fallacy where you lose and concede on a subject in a subtle way, but then shift the argument to keep the debate going and to keep your credibility up. I noticed though. You aren't that clever. You lost on this part about Tony's modern armors not having mouth and eye slits, so you shifted the argument about something irrelevant. I thought we were talking about Tony's combat stats? No, you just wanted to throw in there that Scott Lang, with an Ant-Man suit, helped Tony (as if that somehow proves something?). I debunk point after point and you just provide more and more to stack on top of your failure to cover up the fact that you are getting your ass kicked right now.

You know you are right. All we see is Pym saying the blast will knock them out, then we see the bodies of Captain America and Iron-Man laying on the ground as Yellowjacket flies away and saying they are down. No evidence there at all.

No, we don't see them get knocked out. Lying on the ground could mean they were just knocked over... Stunned. There's no evidence that their eyes were closed. No evidence they were sleeping. No proof at all. Also, you may not want to go off of Hank's statements because they end up hurting your argument. For him to say, "if only for moments" when talking about how long they were taken out for, that must mean he saw them moving and predicted that they'd be back up again soon. He knew he wasn't doing anything.

Iron-Man says Pym is crushing his armor. Hercules, begs Pym to let Iron-Man go. When someone is begging your opponent to not kill you, that's usually an indication that you are losing the fight. But keep dreaming your dream.

So because Hercules tells Hank to stop that means Iron Man lost the fight? What kind of logic is that? Hank wasn't even hurting Tony. Why wasn't he grunting or screaming out in pain if his armor was breaking? Now, if you want to talk about begging....

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Uncle.

If its all Ultron, then why is Ultron 50 feet tall?

Dude, you are literally just ignoring clear cut established facts at this point. Ultron admits that he isn't Hank and that he put on that entire show and gave the heroes the cosmic cube piece to keep things interesting and avoid peace. Hank's soul is shown stuck inside of Ultron. You have no proof that Pym is, even partially, in control. The burden of proof is on YOU. Besides, you act like Ultron cannot make himself big if he wanted to. Absolutely ridiculous.

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Yeah, Ultron's never been big before.

I do believe that the Iron-Man character has become a low high-tier character. But that doesn't mean, I pretend that he didn't get beaten when he did. Iron-Man has not only been beaten by Ant-Man he's been beaten by a lot of street levelers too - that doesn't mean that he isn't a force to be reckoned with. Its comics man.

You are contradicting yourself then. How can he be a low high tier if he gets "stomped" by mid tiers or street levelers? You are trying to save your credibility about your objectivity and lack of bias, but you are failing tremendously just like left wing mainstream media. You made a positive/fair comment and then I jokingly responded which got you upset over and triggered a measuring contest. It's funny that you accuse me of being the one living vicariously through Stark though. Irony is fun.

I'm not "pretending" anything. You are. Bothering Iron Man with ants for a minute or two isn't beating him. Squeezing an armor and not even hurting Tony isn't beating him. Blasting and knocking him over for half a panel isn't beating him. Just like Cap hitting him in the face with his shield is not beating him either. Just like Cap breaking off Tony's helmet AFTER his armor was disabled by somebody else doesn't count as a win for Cap.

Everything you post is out of context, so I don't understand why you paint this picture like I'm irrational when you don't show the full story or even the full scan. Seriously, why don't you just leave the thread and stop derailing? I don't want to have an extended debate about this in my thread.

At the beginning, I pointed out to you that Pym has beaten Iron-Man as Ant-Man, Yellowjacket, and Giant-Man, and has defeated Iron-Man knockoffs as Dr Pym and Pymtron. It is you, who keep changing the goal posts. You argue that Ant-Man couldn't take out Iron-Man today the way he did in Avengers #161 - that may be true, but it isn't what I said. I said Ant-Man beat Iron-Man. You referred to it as "incapacitating" and "distracting" Stark when he launched hundreds of ants directly into his face - to each his own. I mentioned Scott coming to Iron-Man's rescue in reference to another thread I responded to you on. As Yellowjacket - Pym said his repulsor blast should knock Iron-Man out, Iron-Man falls down and goes boom, the next frame shows Pym flying away from a downed Iron-Man. You referred to it as "knocked over... Stunned". Well, then, he was "knocked over ... Stunned" as he lay face down on the ground with Pym able to flutter away and carry on a conversation with the Wasp. Now if you think that because if may have only been moments - just how long could Iron-Man have survived in those "moments" if Pym was trying to actually harm Iron-Man. Remember, Pym wasn't trying to do any serious damage to them.

Now I really think you should get Hercules to do your special pleading for you in the case of Iron-Man's encounter with Giant-man. After all, it was Hercules who begged Pym to spare Iron-Man's life then. He's used to begging for special mercy for guys who have lost their battles.

I believe you are in the minority on your opinion about Pymtron. Aspects of Pym have been conscious during the Secret Empire saga.

Best of wishes.

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#49 Posted by boogie123 (303 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: Thing held his own and defeated a Super Adaptoid that had the strength and durability combined with the powers of Vision's, Scarlet Witch's, Iron Man's. I'm talking about where Doc Green one-shotted Tony unconscious

Oh you mean the same Jane that was getting brutually beaten by She Hulk? So Impressive right?


Ulik gives Thor problems because Thor holds back, Ulik's like CL95.

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#50 Posted by Noone1996 (12041 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: You tried to derail this thread with irrelevant scans of Hank Pym fighting Stark. I provided the full context and debunked all of your claims. If I responded to you point by point again I'd only be repeating myself. If anyone stumbles across our debate here they can see the full context laid out before them and your out of context arguments/scans being dismantled and decide for themselves if Iron Man actually "lost". Good day.

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