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    Hulk

    Character » Hulk appears in 7771 issues.

    After being bombarded with a massive dose of gamma radiation while saving a young man's life during an experimental bomb testing, Dr. Robert Bruce Banner was transformed into the Incredible Hulk: a green behemoth who is the living personification of rage and pure physical strength.

    Your Likes and Dislikes of Waid's Indestructible Hulk

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    GreenScar1990

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    This was a topic created over at the Hulk Message Board by a fellow poster named Gamma Rage.

    And like him I understand and accept the fact that no two Hulk fans, long or short term, will agree 100% in a complete assessment of Hulk's history. But that is completely okay... and it's also the very purpose of this post.

    Whether you enjoy Waid's run or not...(THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWERS FOR PREFERENCE)

    1) What do you like about it?

    2) What don't you like about it?

    Care to state your likes and dislikes?

    I'll have mine up very shortly.

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    GreenScar1990

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    When it was announced that Mark Waid would be taking over the main Hulk title, proceeding a horrific 15 issue garbage run by Jason Aaron, I was very optimistic. I was hoping and praying that he'd be the next Greg Pak, Peter David or Bill Mantlo. But as time went on, and each issue passed, I soon realized I was wrong. Don't get me wrong, it's still a major improvement over tenures from the likes of Jason Aaron, Bruce Jones and the dreaded Jeph Loeb. However, that doesn't mean it's great. And if you like the series, I'm fine with that, but may I clearly point out my likes and dislikes of the series.

    Likes

    1. It's a vast improvement over Jason Aaron's horrible run. That's one thing I'm thankful for. And he's attempting to make his own unique take on the character. I can respect that to a degree.

    2. I like that Waid is showing Hulk speed blitzing. However, this has happened/been shown in the past, such as the times Hulk caught Surfer and his board in full flight from great distances away.

    3. Showing Banner's intellect and ingenuity. However, Pak's Banner is still superior in terms of being cool, selfless/heroic, and creating far more cool devices. Just sayin'.

    That's all I can come up with. Now onto the dislikes, which there are many.

    Dislikes

    1. Hulk's complete lack of personality and poor characterization. The Hulk, regardless of persona, is a unique being. He has his own thoughts, desires, motivations and feelings. He's not a weapon or superpower. He is an individual entity. The Hulk and Banner are the same, yet different. Same person, two different entities (or more if you want to take in the various personas).

    Writers like Bill Mantlo, Peter David and Greg Pak made me want to care and follow the Hulk/Bruce Banner. But thus far, Waid hasn't been able to pull it off. It's even more insulting when one takes into consideration all the character growth Hulk/Banner have been through.

    2. Poor supporting cast. I don't care for Banner's scientist assistants at all. They're not very interesting. If they'd get killed off, I honestly wouldn't care. I cared about and loved the members of the Warbound and the Pantheon. I loved love interests like Caiera, Kate Waynesboro, Marlo Chandler and Betty. But the supporting characters of Waid's run? Sorry, I could care less about them. And the fault falls to the writer.

    3. Hulk/Banner joining SHIELD. I just can't believe that either Banner or Hulk would ever work with or for SHIELD unless they had a motive. And I hardly call Banner needing funding for his work or giving Hulk a purpose one of them. Didn't Waid know that Banner received funding from the Olympus Group during Pak's tenure? Did he also forget about Banner's base of operations called Gamma World, which is located in New Mexico (which was also last seen in Pak's tenure)?

    4. Blatant ignorance/acknowledgement of Banner/Hulk's rich history and powerset. Barely any references to any past stories, characters or events that shaped the Hulk/Banner's life. Waid didn't even know Hulk could adapt to survive in space or under water! He probably isn't even aware of the fact that Hulk can split planets asunder in an instant if he were to truly let his strength go unchecked!

    5. Inconsistent art. It seems the series can't maintain a steady artist whatsoever. Can't we have one solid artist?! I mean, c'mon! Esad Ribic was on as artist for all but one issue of the God Butcher Saga for Thor: God of Thunder!

    6. Continuity errors and blatant ignorance of past events/occurrences. I've noticed quite a bit of them. A lot, in fact. If you recall, in the first issue, Banner didn't mention the Mad Thinker once being apart of the Intelligencia nor did he care to remark about SHIELD being involving with the Illuminati who shot him into space that led to 'Planet Hulk'. This is repeated once again in the 2nd issue, as is the fact that Banner and Stark have not spoken/seen each other since World War Hulk.

    This continues in the 4th-5th issue involving Attuma and the undersea Deviant city of Lemuria. Waid apparently didn't do his research again, because last time I checked, the Deviants still lived and ruled Lemuria unchallenged. Don't believe me? Check out the 2010-2011 cannon mini-series "Thor: The Deviants Saga". I find it very hard to believe that the Deviants left the city, for if so why not mention it? They certainly weren't bested by a chump like Attuma. And not one mention of Attuma's appearance/power-up as one of the Worthy in Fear Itself.

    These are the most noticeable. I bet I could find a few more if I read the issues again.

    7. Matt Murdock/Daredevil as Banner's lawyer and SHIELD blackmailer. This seemed very, very forced IMO. Wouldn't it make more sense for his cousin Jennifer Walters to be his lawyer and Amadeus Cho to be his ace in his sleeve in order to blackmail SHIELD? I mean, especially since Jen used to work for them at one point in time and Cho harbors a grudge against the espionage-based organizations.

    And am I the only one insulted by Daredevil's condescending conversation with the Hulk during issues #9-10? If it had been the Gravage/Green Scar incarnation, or any of the other more intelligent versions, he would have gotten flicked across New York like a bug!

    8. Mark Waid doesn't understand the dynamic, the character, nor of the balance between the two beings that are Bruce Banner/The Hulk. This has been made quite apparent numerous times. I mean, 'Gladiator Hulk'?! Are you F'ing serious?! It's the Green Scar or Green King Hulk, dude! Do some research! It's not that difficult!

    And why the hell should Banner be jealous of Stark, Pym and Richards?! He shouldn't give a damn or care less about those flashy eggheads. Banner is not a vain or jealous individual. He's outsmarted Richards, Pym, T'Challa, MODOK, Leader and Dr. Doom during Fall of the Hulks/World War Hulks. In fact, he's outsmarted them numerous times and built things that made their jaws drop on more than one occasion. Banner doesn't have anything to prove, especially when it comes to being one of the Smartest There Is! What happened to the cool, kind, caring, heroic, selfless Banner that writers like Pak, PAD and Mantlo gave us?

    That's also something this series is lacking. A true balance between Banner and Hulk. Greg Pak managed to pull it off perfectly, with neither side taking the majority of the comic. There must always be balance. Waid has yet to find it.

    9. Pointless arcs that hold no true value. The 'Gods and Monster' arc was especially a major waste and nothing more than trolling the fanbase by fooling them by thinking Hulk finally lifts Mjolnir (which I still think the Green Scar persona could do). It seems like Waid doesn't know what to do with Hulk/Banner. It appears there's no real long-term plan at all.

    10. No massive threats or truly formidable villains. The villains have been lackluster. None of them feel like Hulk worthy villains. They're simply not that much of a threat or a challenge to the Green Goliath. These are foes that the Joe Fixit Hulk could handle. Hulk/Banner should be taking on the biggest threats and the most powerful and deadly villains.

    Foes like Mangog; Thanos; Tyrant; Juggernaut; High Evolutionary; Lord Armageddon and the Troyjan Armada; Dr. Doom; The Deviants; Typhon; Surtur and the Fire Demons; The Black Order: Corvus Glaive, Black Dwarf, Proxima Midnight, Supergiant and Ebony Maw; Ymir and the Frost Giants (like in JMS' Thor run); The U-Foes; The Asgardian Destroyer; Kurse; Omegex; Ego the Living Planet; Midgard Serpent; Shuma-Gorath; Abomination; Zom; Malekith and the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim; MODOK Superior, AIM, and HYDRA; Black Fog & Zero/One; and Maestro Hulk.

    Now these are Hulk worthy foes/threats.

    11. Lack of awe-inspiring moments, no incredible displays of power. What's the Hulk without these cool moments? And what's Banner without displaying how cool and badass he is? We've had some great ones from Banner/Hulk in Greg Pak's tenure, as well as PAD's. I mean, we all know Hulk's strength is incalculable. That's nothing new. Show instead of tell, please. Do something incredible!

    What's the point of having one of the most powerful, not to mention one of the most intelligent, heroes in the Marvel Universe if you're not going to use him to his fullest potential?

    12. Hulk/Banner's armor. It's pointless/useless. If Waid gave it more purpose, I wouldn't mind it as much. Give the armor some Bannertech shields, teleportation, booster rockets for flight, gamma energy absorption and redirection into powerful blasts that are channeled from the armor to the gauntlets, or something! And depending on the artist, it can look cool (especially if it's silver instead of purple in color) and the complete opposite.

    13. Waid's lack of faith in the Hulk. It seems like he doesn't have faith in that the Hulk can handle or comprehend situations without Banner's aid. This was especially irksome when the Green Scar incarnation was present in the latest issue. This is the Hulk at his natural, progressed state of being. He would have been capable of acknowledging that the Chronarchists need to be stopped. But this fact seemed to be glossed over.

    That's what I can come up with off the top of my head.

    Anyone else care to comment/state their opinions and likes & dislikes?

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    PeppeyHare

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    I don't really have any dislikes apart from minor nitpicks...

    I think it's a fun and refreshing book, and that's all I could have really asked for.

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    deactivated-60600b79ed2c5

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    My only dislike is the artwork. Other than that, i have no complains.

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    RaynorJ

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    Well you already stated pretty much everything i like and dislike about the series, so rather than repeating it i will also like to add that the supporting cast for Waids run is done terribly i have read every single issue of Indestructible Hulk at least twice and honestly at the top of my head i can't even remember any of the scientist names that Banner has as his assistance, they are that forgettable i can't even remember what they did or what are their fields of expertise. And from the previews something important to one or all of them is gonna happen it's obvious they are gonna play a big role down the line unfortunately i just wont give a phuck, because Waid never made me care about any of them.

    Also i would like to point out that i did like Hulk joining with Shield, honestly i saw that as a great opportunity for Shield to use Hulk to solve problems and beat villains only a handful of other superheroes could but alas for now that has been disappointing since Hulk has yet to face of an opponent worthy of his time.

    As you said Waid is doing justice on Hulks speed, but i wish he would do more justice to his strength, after all isn't that what he is most known for? How about a jaw dropping feat? I am not saying he has to do it every issue but it's been 14 of them so far, more than a year and nothing has really made me go "holly crap!".

    Also the artists are all over the place which is annoying and most of them are sub par IMO.

    Also here is another continuity error to address, as much as i like and look forward to seeing Doomsday Hulk in the next issue. I can not ignore the elephant in the room... why was Maestro killed by the same Gamma bomb that created the Hulk yet in Waids run it just made him stronger and more of a monster?

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    GreenScar1990

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    @raynorj: And just as puzzling is the fact that the Hulk has withstood far worse than nuclear explosions and survived unscathed. Also take into the fact what happened the last time Hulk was exposed to immense amounts of gamma energy. He grew to Celestial heights, towering over the surrounding mountain and peaks of the landscape. Something isn't adding up here. But the Maestro Hulk's, from that alternate reality, appearance is definitely one of the biggest.

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    Lvenger

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    Tch this is a nitpicking thread disguised as a concealed "Likes and Dislikes" thread. A thinly veiled disguise at best.

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    GreenScar1990

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    @lvenger: This is for any and everybody who reads the series. It's where they can state their likes and dislikes openly without judgment from fellow readers. You're welcome to state your likes and dislikes of the series as well. That's the whole point of this thread. If you would have read it clearly, maybe you wouldn't make false assumptions.

    If you like the series, I'm fine with it and accept it. That goes for anyone.

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    Lvenger

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    @greenscar1990: I'll be generous and give you a few of your many nitpicking dislikes. The supporting cast could be more fleshed out and play more of a role in the series, Blind Rage was definitely the weakest part of Waid's run even though he writes Hulk and Daredevil well in their own series and inconsistent artwork which isn't really Waid's fault. But as for the rest, they're really inconsequential stale criticisms that got Waid to express that it's overbearing fans like you that make him want to quit writing comics. You feel proud of that achievement that you made a highly prolific and talented writer express a desire to give up his job? And on the Hulk point, Waid's writing style is focused on the man behind the mask which is something he's done in Superman Birthright as it's his style to focus on the humanising aspects of the character. That's how he is and it gives Banner much more depth to his character. His Hulk will come in time.

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    GreenScar1990

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    @lvenger & @theacidskull

    This isn't a thread for nitpicking, nor was I doing so. It was meant for fans or readers who've read the series to state their likes and dislikes without criticism from others. Would it have killed Waid to have a single, tiny panel of dialogue explaining the absence of the Deviants from Lemuria? No. Would it have hurt to have Attuma make a remark about obtaining power as he once did when he became one of the Worthy during 'Fear Itself'? No. So why attack me for simply stating something I didn't care for?

    All I did was give those a chance to come out and state their opinions without getting called nitpickers or overly critical. Everything that I listed could have been handled better. Besides, I was stating my opinions, my likes and dislikes in regards to the series. I'm not, nor are my opinions, to be judged by either of you. I merely wanted to give people a chance to state their likes and dislikes.

    And I have. Take it or leave it. It doesn't matter to me.

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    RaynorJ

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    #14  Edited By RaynorJ

    It's unfortunate that this has to happen, people tend to get overprotective of something or someone they like so you guys are kinda treating the creator of this thread unfairly, calling him out on nitpicking. Nitpicking is finding some small almost irrelevant problems in something that is generally good even great. What greenscar1990 is doing is not nitpicking IMO, he is not enjoying the series and the small problems are not the main issue here(they are just the icing on the cake) the biggest problem for me and i believe him is how the Hulk(the title character) is handled it's done poorly and it's going in a direction that we are certainly not looking forward to. Once again i repeat those 2 words that could sum up my biggest problem with the series "Incredible Banner". And honestly i really can't agree with you guys here as most of the things he said are really not nitpicking.

    Complaing about the Hulk, support cast, motives, villains, pointless arcs, etc.. is not nit picking. Those are all major things you can say that complaining about different artist every 2-3 issues is a nit pick it's annoying but it's not really that damaging, continuity errors can also be seen as a nit pic... with so much rich history and so many retcons already i can forgive Waid for forgetting something or getting something wrong as long as it's not something very important and detrimental to the character.

    Also Lvenger dude... i am sorry but you are whining. Overbearing fans make him wanna quite writing? REALLY? I mean poor guy it's not like any kind of writer, creator, musician, filmmaker, actor, etc... has ever had a problem with overbearing fans and haters. To me that sounds like nothing more than a simple whine, also i must add that it's very assholish of you i am sorry but you are definitely and deliberately trying to make him feel guilty to put the blame on greenscar for that as if he came to Waids house knocking on his door with a list of things he dislikes and wants him to change about his runs. For every overbearing fan and hater he has hundreds-thousands of loyal fans that love everything he does even on the Indestructible Hulk run there are only 2-3 of us that are not satisfied and sold on Waids everyone else seems to treat it as the Holy Grail of comics, so i think he will survive.

    So what if Hulks time never comes? The previews for the next several issue are all Banner focused, with not even a hint of that changing any time soon and Waid is not gonna stay on this run forever.

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    GreenScar1990

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    @greenscar1990: I'm all for distinct and singular opinions but if you nitpick this much how can you really enjoy anything?

    1. Hulk's complete lack of personality and poor characterization. The Hulk, regardless of persona, is a unique being. He has his own thoughts, desires, motivations and feelings. He's not a weapon or superpower. He is an individual entity. The Hulk and Banner are the same, yet different. Same person, two different entities (or more if you want to take in the various personas).

    Writers like Bill Mantlo, Peter David and Greg Pak made me want to care and follow the Hulk/Bruce Banner. But thus far, Waid hasn't been able to pull it off. It's even more insulting when one takes into consideration all the character growth Hulk/Banner have been through.

    While I agree that Hulk should be used more often, He is not poorly characterized. In fact Savage hulk is spot on, there was only that ONE moment in issue 9 where Hulk almost killed a human which is something he never does unless there is no other way, and that was explained by waid in issue 11 that Hulks personality had been shifting, which again shows why he was mindless rather than savage, and even then, he still had enough humanity to save a friend.

    Also I find it kinda Ironic that you'd bring Mantlo as an example considering that during his run hulk was dead in his own body for a long time. Not dissing it mind you, I love Bill Mantlos run, in fact it's brilliant, but no one seemed to mind banner taking the spotlight there. And waid has only had 14 issues so far, he's learning, the series has been improving slowly. Did you notice that at the beginning of his run Hulk didn't even speak, but as the run progressing we saw more of the Hulk banner dynamic. And stop comparing everyone to Pak, His run is unmatched, people don't usually get characters as well as he did.

    Poor supporting cast. I don't care for Banner's scientist assistants at all. They're not very interesting. If they'd get killed off, I honestly wouldn't care. I cared about and loved the members of the Warbound and the Pantheon. I loved love interests like Caiera, Kate Waynesboro, Marlo Chandler and Betty. But the supporting characters of Waid's run? Sorry, I could care less about them. And the fault falls to the writer.

    I agree on this one. This is a slight nit pick of mine, I want to see more of these guys because I do find the interesting. I'm glad that more focus will be put on them during the Inhumanity story-line.

    Hulk/Banner joining SHIELD. I just can't believe that either Banner or Hulk would ever work with or for SHIELD unless they had a motive. And I hardly call Banner needing funding for his work or giving Hulk a purpose one of them. Didn't Waid know that Banner received funding from the Olympus Group during Pak's tenure? Did he also forget about Banner's base of operations called Gamma World, which is located in New Mexico (which was also last seen in Pak's tenure)?

    That's not the only reason Banner joined in, SHIELD has more reach and connections, operating from their is much more beneficial. Also blame this on Aaron, not on Waid, he was the one who deviated the original hulk series to something completely unnecessary.

    Blatant ignorance/acknowledgement of Banner/Hulk's rich history and powerset. Barely any references to any past stories, characters or events that shaped the Hulk/Banner's life. Waid didn't even know Hulk could adapt to survive in space or under water! He probably isn't even aware of the fact that Hulk can split planets asunder in an instant if he were to truly let his strength go unchecked!

    Again, Waid can't get every detail right, but most of the other things have been correct. And since you are so keen on Thor:god of Thunder, tell me, what references occur there? none, but again, no one seems to mind. Feat wise hulk is improving, while at the beginning he seemed weaker, throughout the series hulk has resisted absolute zero, gone through time stream itself without needed an armor(issue 14),resisted a devise that stops time itself and was specifically selected for a mission where they could have easily sent in thor or Hyperion. Not to mention sblitzing 3 speed enhanced henchmen in a way that hulks frame barely changed it's position. We're going higher slowly. But yeah, that Adaptation power should have been factored in the 4th issue.

    . Inconsistent art. It seems the series can't maintain a steady artist whatsoever. Can't we have one solid artist?! I mean, c'mon! Esad Ribic was on as artist for all but one issue of the God Butcher Saga for Thor: God of Thunder!

    Not really a problem but yeah, I'd be a better option if one artist was selected.

    Continuity errors and blatant ignorance of past events/occurrences. I've noticed quite a bit of them. A lot, in fact. If you recall, in the first issue, Banner didn't mention the Mad Thinker once being apart of the Intelligencia nor did he care to remark about SHIELD being involving with the Illuminati who shot him into space that led to 'Planet Hulk'. This is repeated once again in the 2nd issue, as is the fact that Banner and Stark have not spoken/seen each other since World War Hulk.

    Considering how much has happened after that, and considering how banner changed in personality, I don't see why banner would mind seeing start again. Besides, he got his payback, and Banner realized that miek was the ultimate mastermind behind his affairs.

    Matt Murdock/Daredevil as Banner's lawyer and SHIELD blackmailer. This seemed very, very forced IMO. Wouldn't it make more sense for his cousin Jennifer Walters to be his lawyer and Amadeus Cho to be his ace in his sleeve in order to blackmail SHIELD? I mean, especially since Jen used to work for them at one point in time and Cho harbors a grudge against the espionage-based organizations.

    And am I the only one insulted by Daredevil's condescending conversation with the Hulk during issues #9-10? If it had been the Gravage/Green Scar incarnation, or any of the other more intelligent versions, he would have gotten flicked across New York like a bug!

    while I'd prefer Jen as well, I understand why Waid decided to choose matt. it was a perfect scenario for a crossover. And that Condescending conversation was explained in issue 11, re-read it. It wasn't savage hulk, it was Mindless hulk, who in fact still managed to remember that DD was his friend. before letting a building collapse on him.

    Mark Waid doesn't understand the dynamic, the character, nor of the balance between the two beings that are Bruce Banner/The Hulk. This has been made quite apparent numerous times. I mean, 'Gladiator Hulk'?! Are you F'ing serious?! It's the Green Scar or Green King Hulk, dude! Do some research! It's not that difficult!

    And why the hell should Banner be jealous of Stark, Pym and Richards?! He shouldn't give a damn or care less about those flashy eggheads. Banner is not a vain or jealous individual. He's outsmarted Richards, Pym, T'Challa, MODOK, Leader and Dr. Doom during Fall of the Hulks/World War Hulks. In fact, he's outsmarted them numerous times and built things that made their jaws drop on more than one occasion. Banner doesn't have anything to prove, especially when it comes to being one of the Smartest There Is! What happened to the cool, kind, caring, heroic, selfless Banner that writers like Pak, PAD and Mantlo gave us?

    That's also something this series is lacking. A true balance between Banner and Hulk. Greg Pak managed to pull it off perfectly, with neither side taking the majority of the comic. There must always be balance. Waid has yet to find it.

    I'd be mad about the Gladiator hulk comment too if the Green scar name hadn't been mention in the same sentence. And why is everyone under the impression that Banner is jealous at Pym, Richards, and etc. He's mad at HULK dammit, not at the other scientists. He's mad because hulk is overshadowing him, where as in reality he can do so much more, and instead of leaving a path of destruction he wants to leave a path of peace and innovation. That was made clear in the FIRST issue of this run. He doesn't like being remembered as the hulk, he wants to be remembered as Bruce F*cking Banner, Marvels foremost radiation expert. And what's this about Balance? are we forgetting that Paks initial run began with hulks domination? Planet hulk is Bloody amazing and spectacular, no one is denying that, but come on man. NITPICK :P

    Pointless arcs that hold no true value. The 'Gods and Monster' arc was especially a major waste and nothing more than trolling the fanbase by fooling them by thinking Hulk finally lifts Mjolnir (which I still think the Green Scar persona could do). It seems like Waid doesn't know what to do with Hulk/Banner. It appears there's no real long-term plan at all.

    Each arc had value, it's just that there was more fun themed, which is fine. Not every arc has to be stretched over 11 issues. And few writers have long term plans, I doubt Jason Aaron had a long term plan.

    No massive threats or truly formidable villains. The villains have been lackluster. None of them feel like Hulk worthy villains. They're simply not that much of a threat or a challenge to the Green Goliath. These are foes that the Joe Fixit Hulk could handle. Hulk/Banner should be taking on the biggest threats and the most powerful and deadly villains.

    Foes like Mangog; Thanos; Tyrant; Juggernaut; High Evolutionary; Lord Armageddon and the Troyjan Armada; Dr. Doom; The Deviants; Typhon; Surtur and the Fire Demons; The Black Order: Corvus Glaive, Black Dwarf, Proxima Midnight, Supergiant and Ebony Maw; Ymir and the Frost Giants (like in JMS' Thor run); The U-Foes; The Asgardian Destroyer; Kurse; Omegex; Ego the Living Planet; Midgard Serpent; Shuma-Gorath; Abomination; Zom; Malekith and the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim; MODOK Superior, AIM, and HYDRA; Black Fog & Zero/One; and Maestro Hulk

    Some of the villains here are out of hulks league but I agree that we need a much more compelling and interesting villain. As well as a villain who can match hulk in strength. Aside from attuma and Zarrko, no other villain really had any kind of depth, nor did they feel like an actual threat. So this is a point I agree on, instead of using guys like Baron Zemo who quickly dissapear, waid should broaden his picks.

    Lack of awe-inspiring moments, no incredible displays of power. What's the Hulk without these cool moments? And what's Banner without displaying how cool and badass he is? We've had some great ones from Banner/Hulk in Greg Pak's tenure, as well as PAD's. I mean, we all know Hulk's strength is incalculable. That's nothing new. Show instead of tell, please. Do something incredible!

    What's the point of having one of the most powerful, not to mention one of the most intelligent, heroes in the Marvel Universe if you're not going to use him to his fullest potential?

    There was some good moments for both Banner and Hulk, but yeah, more of epic cool scenes would be welcome.

    Hulk/Banner's armor. It's pointless/useless. If Waid gave it more purpose, I wouldn't mind it as much. Give the armor some Bannertech shields, teleportation, booster rockets for flight, gamma energy absorption and redirection into powerful blasts that are channeled from the armor to the gauntlets, or something! And depending on the artist, it can look cool (especially if it's silver instead of purple in color) and the complete opposite.

    13. Waid's lack of faith in the Hulk. It seems like he doesn't have faith in that the Hulk can handle or comprehend situations without Banner's aid. This was especially irksome when the Green Scar incarnation was present in the latest issue. This is the Hulk at his natural, progressed state of being. He would have been capable of acknowledging that the Chronarchists need to be stopped. But this fact seemed to be glossed over.

    I don't really care about the armor, it's more for banner than the Hulk. I wouldn't want special powers for the hulk though, he is a powerhouse, the best thing about is that he utilizes his strength in so many ways that it makes him versatile.

    Right before the mission banner learned that hulks personalities might shift so how could he take the chance of letting hulk in without some guidance, plus savage hulk can't figure out the plans the Chronarchists have created, even though he isn't dumb. He knows the chronarchists had to be stopped, but would Green scar leave a bunch of people to fight off a giant dragon? and while his personality had shifted there's no telling what he thought of the situation, it's possible he didn't even know what was going on.

    Look man, sorry if I came off as a d*ck, but what I'm saying is that you are nitpicking, I can nitpick for every series I'm reading, even thor, which I think is fantastic.

    Okay. First things first. Savage Hulk wasn't spot on, as you claim. He was barely speaking a few words, where as Savage Hulk could speak full sentences. This was more akin to the Mindless Hulk than anything else. And most of this, as you stated, was due to his shifting personas that which Waid threw in out of nowhere. Funny it didn't occur previously until some time-travel got involved, aka 'Age of Ultron'. Forced and perhaps thrown together? The possibility is there.

    I can't see where Banner wouldn't have just as much reach on his own and with an organization such as Olympus Group backing him up than SHIELD. And despite Jason Aaron's horrible run, it isn't his fault that this was ignored. That, my friend, lies in that of Mark Waid and the Marvel Editors for glossing over the character's recent history.

    Banner forgiving Stark and the others? Yeah, not likely. And despite Miek being one of the main factors in the near destruction of Planet Sakaar and the death of Caiera, it was the heroes and SHIELD who shot Hulk/Banner into space in the first place and it was the very ship that brought him to Sakaar that exploded. The blame and blood is on their hands just as much, if not slightly more than, that of Miek. I mean, honestly, would you forgive someone who shot you into space, betrayed your trust, and was partially responsible for destroying everything he fought so hard for and loved so dearly.

    I know I would never forgive them. And I sure as hell wouldn't trust them. Banner/Hulk should be extremely reluctant to even work alongside or associate with those who were responsible for this. And I certainly know for a fact that Hulk would trust the heroes or SHIELD. He would fight reluctantly alongside the heroes, but working with/for SHIELD is something I can't picture Hulk ever, ever doing.

    I'm glad you agree with me in terms of supporting cast and truly awe-inspiring moments. If Waid wanted me to care about the supporting cast, he should have done more with them prior to Inhumanity. That way, if something happens to them, I and other readers would be emotionally invested in them.

    And it has been stated by Mark Waid himself in the interview that Banner is envious/jealous of the other smartest men on the planet and angry being overshadowed by the Hulk. He wants to make a name for himself? Fine. Let him do it so we can actually move on with the story. But he could have done this without SHIELD backing him up. Still, if you think about it, it doesn't make logical sense for Banner to be jealous of the other world's smartest men. Nor does it make sense that he's angry at being overshadowed by the Hulk. They're the one and the same. Banner is Hulk, Hulk is Banner. Combined they helped saved the world, the galaxy, and the universe alongside other heroes countless times. Banner doesn't have anything to prove.

    Do you think Reed Richards would care if his scientific genius is overshadowed by the legacy of the Fantastic Four? Not in the least. Why? Because it's petty, narrow-minded, self interest. This is something that Banner, and especially the Hulk, could care less about. Helping people and saving worlds is one thing, but notoriety and infamous recognition is another.

    And in regards to the added features to the armor, it wouldn't have to benefit the Hulk. Why not give most of the armor's upgrades/tech to Banner for his own use in situations? He could certainly use them on missions. And all the villains that are listed are in Hulk's caliber and above. That's the point. They're challenges worthy of his might. If you have one of the most powerful and intelligent heroes in the Marvel Universe, you need to come up with threats that're going to test him.

    And I certainly didn't expect the Green Scar to leave those people to fight Fing Fang Foom by themselves. He's selfless and heroic. Still, these personas had to know what was going on, at least to a degree. Remember, the Banner Bot's goal is to guide and make sure Hulk doesn't revert back to Banner. Hulk is still Banner. They're one and the same. I mean, shouldn't there be at least some form of guidance going on within their psyche?

    But that's one of the biggest problems this series faces: The balance between Bruce Banner and the Hulk. It's mostly 99.9% Banner's view and 00.01% Hulk's view. That's one of my biggest gripes about this series. I can handle ever-changing art, a lackluster supporting cast and the like. That's not what's bothering me and numerous other longtime fans of the character.

    Sorry if I'm being blunt, but I got to voice my opinion, dude. If you like the series, I'm fine with that. It's something I'm willing to accept. But it still could be better. It truly could be worthy of being 'Incredible'. But only time will tell if Waid ever achieves this. My guess? The next great Hulk writer will come when Waid has left the series. It'll be out of nowhere that this new person, someone akin to the likes of Peter David and Greg Pak, will take the reins and show us what great Hulk/Banner stories truly are.

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    RaynorJ

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    #18  Edited By RaynorJ

    @theacidskull said:

    @raynorj: Again, I'm not attacking him, I even agreed with some points. The villains need to be better I agree on that front, and I'd like to see more of supporting cast too. It's a flawed series, but it's a good one. The nitpick I pointed out were the continuity errors for one. All I said was that if he payed attention to so many things how come he enjoyed other series considering that they have slight errors too you know?

    This is a discussion isn't it? I can't agree with everyone on everything. No one treating waids run as a holy grail(that's for Greg Pak only). I just stated something. If you guys really get this upset over this I'll try my best then not to reply. You guys make it sound as we scolded you or something.

    I respect both yours and his opinion.

    Well first off all you basically label him as someone who nit picks a lot and i still say he didn't really nit pick all that much. He just broke it down and went into detail why he likes or dislikes the issue but i am pretty sure he made it clear what his real issues are with the series.

    Nobody is forcing anyone to agree with anyone i never said or even hinted at this all i argued for is that you guys called him out on nit picking when i disagree with that, isn't that a discussion in itself(though not on topic with the thread)? I know plenty of people treating his run as a Holy Grail, i've actually come across people who said that the Hulk is a boring and uninteresting character to them and that the only reason they read it is because of Waid, they pretty much plan to drop Hulk once he finishes with it, regardless of the character or if they even come to like him and his story. That is just silly to me(forcing yourself to read something) but people have their own reasons and i don't wanna influence or change their minds if there is a person out there that doesn't want to read the Hulk just because his color is green(or any other random reason) than it's their choice i can't really argue with personal preferences.

    Maybe i was wrong or too harsh but honestly that is how i interpreted your guys posts towards him and at the end of the day even if he did nit pick too much i really don't believe he said anything false. But that's just me and maybe i should stop posting on these forums altogether, i am in a very one sided minority here when it comes to the Indestructible Hulk and it's really showing i find myself not being able to discuss some of the flaws of Waids run with others, seeing as almost all the posts i see(not talking about you) are single sentences of "I love everything about Waids run" or "his run is perfect i don't have any problems with it" etc...

    Anyway if i made some misinterpretations i apologize you are a very polite and respectful guy, more so than anyone else i came across on these forums so for that you have my respect.

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    deactivated-611928878d365

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    I love this series. It's a new direction showing off Banner's smarts. Hulk will be more than a WMD soon.

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    RaynorJ

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    #21  Edited By RaynorJ

    @theacidskull:

    You'd be surprised by the number of those people, you actually don't wanna hear their opinions on Planet Hulk and WWH. I think they are just doing it all to troll and in spite because they know the series is taking away focus from the Hulk while giving it all to Banner. I even saw one guy on youtube say that he likes this series because it is the death of Hulks character... seriously the lengths at which people will go over their love/hate towards fictional characters.

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    RaynorJ

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    #23  Edited By RaynorJ
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    RaynorJ

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    @raynorj said:

    @theacidskull: To put it lightly.

    Yes i did.

    what'd you think?

    Not much, it looks promising(there should be plenty of Hulk action) but i don't think i should get too excited about it. You set your expectations high and than they just come crashing down. And the preview for Indestructible Hulk 19 looks like another disappointment to be honest, again with a problem that Hulk can't smash, but i bet Banner will be able to fix... While for instance look at the preview of Thor 19... I just have one word for you... Galactus. And i bet it's not a problem Donald Blake will be dealing with.

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    GreenScar1990

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    #27  Edited By GreenScar1990

    Yeah. That's what I thought too when comparing the two solicitations for Thor 19 & Hulk 19. Thor gets cool villains and mega threats. What do we get? Something involving the Terrigen Mists and Banner coming up with the solution. In other words, the same as what we've been getting. In all honestly, at least in my opinion, Waid's run thus far has been pretty lackluster and just 'meh'. If the past 14 issues are the best Waid can give us, I'm not that impressed. I mean, I'd kill for Galactus to be involved in a epic Hulk storyline.

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    RaynorJ

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    #29  Edited By RaynorJ

    @theacidskull:

    I'd prefer Hulk fighting a treat much weaker than Galactus and getting owned, i just wanna see Hulk do something on his own for a change... I mean even now with Hulk Squared(probably the most powerful incarnation of the Hulk that we get to see for the first time) he is fighting army guys... The most underwhelming thing ever i seriously hope Waid steps it up and has the Chronarchist bring in someone powerful to deal with the Hulk. Otherwise the only issue i have been anticipating in this entire run is gonna be another bust.

    @greenscar1990:

    I agree, his run is lackluster to say the least. While i am pretty much jealous of how Thors run is going, it's freaking awesome. On the other hand i think Indestructible Hulk is the most overrated run to come out of Marvel NOW.

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    @theacidskull: It's true, we don't. We will have to wait and see.

    I am not saying it's really bad. You don't have to be bad to be overrated you can be good and still be overrated. Personally to me i find the whole run going from "meh" to OK. I can see and respect why people consider it good but i just think to many people consider it perfect and great and when you look at the comments most people just say they love it and they don't have any problems with it and when they do it's usually 1 minor thing. While the run in it's all honesty has a lot more problems than that. And considering Waid is only getting praises and positive feedback it is unlikely anything will change, he is stuck on Banner and writing his story and the rest of us just have to learn to deal with it for a couple of more years... sigh... But yea, in my mind he is the lesser evil of some of the other potential writers.

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    RaynorJ

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    #33  Edited By RaynorJ

    @theacidskull: I wouldn't mind Banner in a spotlight for a reasonable amount of time as i said before he is one of the Earths top minds yet he get's the short end of the stick because of the Hulk himself, most writers and most fans don't really care much about Banner he is just a means to an end which is unfair to the character he get's overshadowed by Hulk so we don't get to see much from him that's why i said he is a very undefined character since every writer treats him very differently. Coward, hero, confident, afraid, genius, madman... it got ridiculous.

    I just wonder how long do we have to wait? I have seen the preview for Issue 19 and it doesn't suggest to me that Hulks time has come, in fact the preview states pretty much the exact opposite it's just one more repeat of "a problem Hulk can't smash but Banner can fix" i hope Waid realizes how many times he has said this he is sounding like a broken record.

    I definitely think Waid is not a good writer for a Hulk comic i think he should have been given the right to write a Banner comic a spin off story or something. He is much better at dealing with the man behind the mask as you say than he is with their superhero persona's. Giving him the right to write a "Indestructible Hulk" was wrong and misleading to many of the readers, since they are not getting "Indestructible Hulk" but rather "Incredible Banner" and while we are at it what makes Hulk "indestructible"? So far he has not survived anything that he couldn't deal with before and apart from his speed i haven't seen any great feats. I think Waid is the type of person that likes to be unique(which is not necessarily always a good thing as seen here) and seeing as most writers either do a bad job with Banner or try to avoid him altogether he loves focusing on him while ignoring the Hulk and while most other writers deal with Hulks strength, durability and healing factor he likes to focus on his speed. The future is looking grim for the jade giant IMO....

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    RaynorJ

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    @theacidskull: Yea, it doesn't have to be a literary masterpiece, i would settle with it being just plain fun but for me personality it isn't. Jeff Perkers special looks probably the most promising Hulk related thing to come out in the near future, but we will see he might end up doing the same as Waid which i really hope doesn't happen... i mean is this the age of Banner? LOL.

    They can be misleading but i really don't have any reason to suspect this is the case here. It's Waid we are talking about and he isn't exactly writing a Hulk and Banner story/adventure he is writing a Banner story here. The way i see it, it's just another way to show of Banners intelligence and his significance to mankind while under utilizing the Hulk once more.

    Honestly i would pick Parker to do it. I am not saying he is perfect or that with 100% certainty he would end up doing a good job it could just as easily backfire but i do believe we would have gotten some fun and entertaining Hulk stories.

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    GreenScar1990

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    #37  Edited By GreenScar1990

    @theacidskull@raynorj

    I've got a list of writers who I'd like to see tackle the Hulk/Banner. And I'll even give you guys brief reasons why I think that they would be good choices for the Green Goliath.

    1. Scott Snyder

    - I love his work on Batman & Superman Unchained. Why would he make a good choice for the writer on the Hulk? Because he knows how to set up unique challenges and craft intriguing stories for heroes. Plus, if you've read his Batman series, he's quite good at bringing in cool tech-based devices, which could be utilized with Dr. Banner.

    2.J. Michael Straczynski

    - He brought new life into Thor. I'd definitely give JMS a chance. His work can be action-packed, emotional, and deeply character driven. That's what the Hulk/Banner needs at this point. Someone who can breathe new life into them.

    3. Grant Morrison

    - A different choice, but one that could prove most interesting. Especially if we delve into Banner/Hulk's psyche. That could prove most intriguing. That's why Morrison would get my vote.

    4. Cullen Bunn

    - Have you read his Venom & Fearless Defenders series? If so, you'll know why I think Bunn would make a great choice for writing the Hulk. Much like Jeff Parker, he's a highly underrated writer who needs a chance.

    5. Geoff Johns

    - Some of you might not like this choice, but you must remember that there is some people, ones you might not expect to write one of your favorite characters good at all, to be quite awesome. And there's another reason why he's listed. He's a major Hulk fan. Yes, a lot of people don't know that about Johns. He loves the character. He even desired to work on the Hulk before moving to work for DC Comics.

    6. Jonathan Hickman

    - I've been enjoying his Avengers and New Avengers series, as have I enjoyed his Fantastic Four run prior to his work on Earth's Mightiest Heroes. I believe that if Hickman were allowed to work on a solo hero book, I think he could do wonders for the Hulk/Bruce Banner. Grand, epic stories. Mysterious threats. Otherworldly anomalies. Sounds interesting to me.

    These are just a couple that I can think of who I think would do wonders for the Jade Giant.

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    GreenScar1990

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    @theacidskull: I would like Hulk to have show a good showing against Galactus and lose, if only to actually earn/prove he's indestructible and the strongest there is. I mean, we all know that Old King Thor isn't gonna beat Galactus. Why? Galactus is a Universal Constant; a being equal in power and standing as Eternity, Infinity, Death and Oblivion.

    It irks me that Thor is getting threats that are on his level or above, yet the Hulk isn't. It's time to prove that Hulk is indeed indestructible and the strongest there is. How? By giving him some powerful villains and extreme threats.

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    the_stegman

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    #39 the_stegman  Moderator

    I read the first trade...didn't particularly care for it, so I didn't read any further.

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