@greenscar1990: I'm all for distinct and singular opinions but if you nitpick this much how can you really enjoy anything?
1. Hulk's complete lack of personality and poor characterization. The Hulk, regardless of persona, is a unique being. He has his own thoughts, desires, motivations and feelings. He's not a weapon or superpower. He is an individual entity. The Hulk and Banner are the same, yet different. Same person, two different entities (or more if you want to take in the various personas).
Writers like Bill Mantlo, Peter David and Greg Pak made me want to care and follow the Hulk/Bruce Banner. But thus far, Waid hasn't been able to pull it off. It's even more insulting when one takes into consideration all the character growth Hulk/Banner have been through.
While I agree that Hulk should be used more often, He is not poorly characterized. In fact Savage hulk is spot on, there was only that ONE moment in issue 9 where Hulk almost killed a human which is something he never does unless there is no other way, and that was explained by waid in issue 11 that Hulks personality had been shifting, which again shows why he was mindless rather than savage, and even then, he still had enough humanity to save a friend.
Also I find it kinda Ironic that you'd bring Mantlo as an example considering that during his run hulk was dead in his own body for a long time. Not dissing it mind you, I love Bill Mantlos run, in fact it's brilliant, but no one seemed to mind banner taking the spotlight there. And waid has only had 14 issues so far, he's learning, the series has been improving slowly. Did you notice that at the beginning of his run Hulk didn't even speak, but as the run progressing we saw more of the Hulk banner dynamic. And stop comparing everyone to Pak, His run is unmatched, people don't usually get characters as well as he did.
Poor supporting cast. I don't care for Banner's scientist assistants at all. They're not very interesting. If they'd get killed off, I honestly wouldn't care. I cared about and loved the members of the Warbound and the Pantheon. I loved love interests like Caiera, Kate Waynesboro, Marlo Chandler and Betty. But the supporting characters of Waid's run? Sorry, I could care less about them. And the fault falls to the writer.
I agree on this one. This is a slight nit pick of mine, I want to see more of these guys because I do find the interesting. I'm glad that more focus will be put on them during the Inhumanity story-line.
Hulk/Banner joining SHIELD. I just can't believe that either Banner or Hulk would ever work with or for SHIELD unless they had a motive. And I hardly call Banner needing funding for his work or giving Hulk a purpose one of them. Didn't Waid know that Banner received funding from the Olympus Group during Pak's tenure? Did he also forget about Banner's base of operations called Gamma World, which is located in New Mexico (which was also last seen in Pak's tenure)?
That's not the only reason Banner joined in, SHIELD has more reach and connections, operating from their is much more beneficial. Also blame this on Aaron, not on Waid, he was the one who deviated the original hulk series to something completely unnecessary.
Blatant ignorance/acknowledgement of Banner/Hulk's rich history and powerset. Barely any references to any past stories, characters or events that shaped the Hulk/Banner's life. Waid didn't even know Hulk could adapt to survive in space or under water! He probably isn't even aware of the fact that Hulk can split planets asunder in an instant if he were to truly let his strength go unchecked!
Again, Waid can't get every detail right, but most of the other things have been correct. And since you are so keen on Thor:god of Thunder, tell me, what references occur there? none, but again, no one seems to mind. Feat wise hulk is improving, while at the beginning he seemed weaker, throughout the series hulk has resisted absolute zero, gone through time stream itself without needed an armor(issue 14),resisted a devise that stops time itself and was specifically selected for a mission where they could have easily sent in thor or Hyperion. Not to mention sblitzing 3 speed enhanced henchmen in a way that hulks frame barely changed it's position. We're going higher slowly. But yeah, that Adaptation power should have been factored in the 4th issue.
. Inconsistent art. It seems the series can't maintain a steady artist whatsoever. Can't we have one solid artist?! I mean, c'mon! Esad Ribic was on as artist for all but one issue of the God Butcher Saga for Thor: God of Thunder!
Not really a problem but yeah, I'd be a better option if one artist was selected.
Continuity errors and blatant ignorance of past events/occurrences. I've noticed quite a bit of them. A lot, in fact. If you recall, in the first issue, Banner didn't mention the Mad Thinker once being apart of the Intelligencia nor did he care to remark about SHIELD being involving with the Illuminati who shot him into space that led to 'Planet Hulk'. This is repeated once again in the 2nd issue, as is the fact that Banner and Stark have not spoken/seen each other since World War Hulk.
Considering how much has happened after that, and considering how banner changed in personality, I don't see why banner would mind seeing start again. Besides, he got his payback, and Banner realized that miek was the ultimate mastermind behind his affairs.
Matt Murdock/Daredevil as Banner's lawyer and SHIELD blackmailer. This seemed very, very forced IMO. Wouldn't it make more sense for his cousin Jennifer Walters to be his lawyer and Amadeus Cho to be his ace in his sleeve in order to blackmail SHIELD? I mean, especially since Jen used to work for them at one point in time and Cho harbors a grudge against the espionage-based organizations.
And am I the only one insulted by Daredevil's condescending conversation with the Hulk during issues #9-10? If it had been the Gravage/Green Scar incarnation, or any of the other more intelligent versions, he would have gotten flicked across New York like a bug!
while I'd prefer Jen as well, I understand why Waid decided to choose matt. it was a perfect scenario for a crossover. And that Condescending conversation was explained in issue 11, re-read it. It wasn't savage hulk, it was Mindless hulk, who in fact still managed to remember that DD was his friend. before letting a building collapse on him.
Mark Waid doesn't understand the dynamic, the character, nor of the balance between the two beings that are Bruce Banner/The Hulk. This has been made quite apparent numerous times. I mean, 'Gladiator Hulk'?! Are you F'ing serious?! It's the Green Scar or Green King Hulk, dude! Do some research! It's not that difficult!
And why the hell should Banner be jealous of Stark, Pym and Richards?! He shouldn't give a damn or care less about those flashy eggheads. Banner is not a vain or jealous individual. He's outsmarted Richards, Pym, T'Challa, MODOK, Leader and Dr. Doom during Fall of the Hulks/World War Hulks. In fact, he's outsmarted them numerous times and built things that made their jaws drop on more than one occasion. Banner doesn't have anything to prove, especially when it comes to being one of the Smartest There Is! What happened to the cool, kind, caring, heroic, selfless Banner that writers like Pak, PAD and Mantlo gave us?
That's also something this series is lacking. A true balance between Banner and Hulk. Greg Pak managed to pull it off perfectly, with neither side taking the majority of the comic. There must always be balance. Waid has yet to find it.
I'd be mad about the Gladiator hulk comment too if the Green scar name hadn't been mention in the same sentence. And why is everyone under the impression that Banner is jealous at Pym, Richards, and etc. He's mad at HULK dammit, not at the other scientists. He's mad because hulk is overshadowing him, where as in reality he can do so much more, and instead of leaving a path of destruction he wants to leave a path of peace and innovation. That was made clear in the FIRST issue of this run. He doesn't like being remembered as the hulk, he wants to be remembered as Bruce F*cking Banner, Marvels foremost radiation expert. And what's this about Balance? are we forgetting that Paks initial run began with hulks domination? Planet hulk is Bloody amazing and spectacular, no one is denying that, but come on man. NITPICK :P
Pointless arcs that hold no true value. The 'Gods and Monster' arc was especially a major waste and nothing more than trolling the fanbase by fooling them by thinking Hulk finally lifts Mjolnir (which I still think the Green Scar persona could do). It seems like Waid doesn't know what to do with Hulk/Banner. It appears there's no real long-term plan at all.
Each arc had value, it's just that there was more fun themed, which is fine. Not every arc has to be stretched over 11 issues. And few writers have long term plans, I doubt Jason Aaron had a long term plan.
No massive threats or truly formidable villains. The villains have been lackluster. None of them feel like Hulk worthy villains. They're simply not that much of a threat or a challenge to the Green Goliath. These are foes that the Joe Fixit Hulk could handle. Hulk/Banner should be taking on the biggest threats and the most powerful and deadly villains.
Foes like Mangog; Thanos; Tyrant; Juggernaut; High Evolutionary; Lord Armageddon and the Troyjan Armada; Dr. Doom; The Deviants; Typhon; Surtur and the Fire Demons; The Black Order: Corvus Glaive, Black Dwarf, Proxima Midnight, Supergiant and Ebony Maw; Ymir and the Frost Giants (like in JMS' Thor run); The U-Foes; The Asgardian Destroyer; Kurse; Omegex; Ego the Living Planet; Midgard Serpent; Shuma-Gorath; Abomination; Zom; Malekith and the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim; MODOK Superior, AIM, and HYDRA; Black Fog & Zero/One; and Maestro Hulk
Some of the villains here are out of hulks league but I agree that we need a much more compelling and interesting villain. As well as a villain who can match hulk in strength. Aside from attuma and Zarrko, no other villain really had any kind of depth, nor did they feel like an actual threat. So this is a point I agree on, instead of using guys like Baron Zemo who quickly dissapear, waid should broaden his picks.
Lack of awe-inspiring moments, no incredible displays of power. What's the Hulk without these cool moments? And what's Banner without displaying how cool and badass he is? We've had some great ones from Banner/Hulk in Greg Pak's tenure, as well as PAD's. I mean, we all know Hulk's strength is incalculable. That's nothing new. Show instead of tell, please. Do something incredible!
What's the point of having one of the most powerful, not to mention one of the most intelligent, heroes in the Marvel Universe if you're not going to use him to his fullest potential?
There was some good moments for both Banner and Hulk, but yeah, more of epic cool scenes would be welcome.
Hulk/Banner's armor. It's pointless/useless. If Waid gave it more purpose, I wouldn't mind it as much. Give the armor some Bannertech shields, teleportation, booster rockets for flight, gamma energy absorption and redirection into powerful blasts that are channeled from the armor to the gauntlets, or something! And depending on the artist, it can look cool (especially if it's silver instead of purple in color) and the complete opposite.
13. Waid's lack of faith in the Hulk. It seems like he doesn't have faith in that the Hulk can handle or comprehend situations without Banner's aid. This was especially irksome when the Green Scar incarnation was present in the latest issue. This is the Hulk at his natural, progressed state of being. He would have been capable of acknowledging that the Chronarchists need to be stopped. But this fact seemed to be glossed over.
I don't really care about the armor, it's more for banner than the Hulk. I wouldn't want special powers for the hulk though, he is a powerhouse, the best thing about is that he utilizes his strength in so many ways that it makes him versatile.
Right before the mission banner learned that hulks personalities might shift so how could he take the chance of letting hulk in without some guidance, plus savage hulk can't figure out the plans the Chronarchists have created, even though he isn't dumb. He knows the chronarchists had to be stopped, but would Green scar leave a bunch of people to fight off a giant dragon? and while his personality had shifted there's no telling what he thought of the situation, it's possible he didn't even know what was going on.
Look man, sorry if I came off as a d*ck, but what I'm saying is that you are nitpicking, I can nitpick for every series I'm reading, even thor, which I think is fantastic.
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