So, in September the main Hulk comic sold 33,000 copies (90th best selling comic) and Savage Hulk a woeful 22,000. Meanwhile the Death of Wolverine issue one shifted 250K copies.

Hulk used to be one of Marvels big 4, but doesn't seem to be shifting many comics these days. Even Hulk's big rival Thor shifted 52,000 comics last month..flippin eck, even Magneto is selling in the low 30,000s....

So why don't people read Hulk any more? I thought the two issues on sale in September were ok...

Yea i noticed that too. I am not sure, i guess a lot of the fans just are not happy with the direction Marvel is taking with the Hulk. Even know if i go and look at a lot of comments about the Doc Green, most of them are actually negative. People hate everything from the character itself to do story, to his hair lol. I do like the current Hulk but i do admit there does feel like something big is missing from all of it.

If the numbers are low now i doubt they will ever pick up during Duggans run, still i personally don't really care about them i am interested in the quality not the quantity.

Hulks famous because of tv shows, games, movies etc. most hulk fans don't really read comics, that's why hulk fans are often terribly misinformed (not everyone like us), they get all the info they can on a wiki and come in like they know what they're talking about, I did that at first.

And the fact that half of them probably boycotted waids series and haven't bothered to get back into hulk comics.

@thedailybagel: While a lot of what you say is true, it is true that Hulk has a decent amount of people that read the comics. If you look at the past sales you would see that it rivals other Marvel mainstream heroes. It's really not different i guess just now we are undergoing the same thing we did back before PAD took over. A lot of people lost interest after underwhelming comics like Jason Aaarons and Mar Waids runs.

I predict that after Gerry, Marvel is gonna do something big with Hulk. Something similar to what they did with Thor or Wolverine, something that will shake the character completely and we might even have periods of time where there will be no Hulk comics. Instead of the 2 ongoing we have now.

Probably Waid its hard to give something a chance when they ruined the character for 2 years straight. Plus the new writers not helping they keep saying i'm using Waid's Hulk which almost every Hulk fan hated.

It is really easy to understand. Hulk fan's like me want to see power, strength, amasing feats. I am not saying that every issues should have it. But going years with guys who downplayed hulk turned people off.

Events like planet hulk and world war hulk were so big that when a writer does small things here and there with no build up at all or disapointing conclusions or disrespects the character, fans are getting a bit annoyed.

I think at this point to match planet hulk a long running maestro run could be interesting or similar in build up.

The big problem is that and as a fan I must admit I want to see the hulk be what he says he is. The strongest there is. The problem with that is that marvel can't make him the strongest and for good reasons. It would piss off other fans of other character and eventually the hulk would get boring. There has to be an inbetween. No one doubts hulk is strong but hulk fans do need a little candy here and there and see something amasing. So far i'm still left on my appetite since world war hulk... call me a fanboy but i don't deny it, that is what I am it is not really an insult. If marvel wants to sell, show me power, that is why I like the hulk.

And i am sure that the upcoming Hulk vs. Thanos will have amasing sales numbers because it is an amasing matchup that a lot of hulk fans are looking forward to.

It's a proven fact by Hulk fans and comic readers in general that:

Mark Waid + Hulk = Mediocre Comics

Another proven fact is by Hulk fans and general readers is:

Jason Aaron + Hulk = A BIG steaming pile of garbage/crap

And Jeph Loeb's Hulk run is sandwiched right in between those two horrible runs on the Jade Juggernaut. It's worse than Waid's mediocre, yet not quite as horrific as Jason Aaron's terrible run. I think we can all agree on that.

Back on topic as to why I think why the series has declined in number. It all started when Greg Pak left. He told interesting stories. Stories that were filled with incredible feats of power, formidable/high-end threats, engaging supporting characters old and new alike, and he allowed Hulk/Banner to progress in a way that hasn't been done since Peter David.

Once Greg Pak departed (though there is some speculation that Marvel pushed him away/off writing the Hulk), Jason Aaron & Mark Waid came on with their runs that totally aliened fans/readers and regressed the Hulk/Banner character. Within just 3 years time, these two writers brought the character lower than even Jeph Loeb did. The power, the majesty, the incredible... it was all swept away. And in it's place? Mediocrity and pure garbage that should have never been approved, let alone printed and sold to readers.

They did not progress the character of Hulk/Banner, they did not make nods to past events that greatly affected them, they didn't give or create villains/threats that are of planetary or galactic level in order to challenge a high-end elite being like the Hulk, nor did they even use the majority of their supporting cast! More or less, they were given an immense opportunity, a chance to write the Strongest One of All, a chance to write one of the most unique and powerful heroic beings ever created in comics... and they didn't give a damn, dropped the ball, and more or less told the fans to go screw themselves. Needless to say, fan outcry and backlash against such treatment resulted in their runs declining in number faster than lightning can strike.

Then, finally, Gerry Duggan came on board. And for the first time in 3 years we have a good Hulk comic. However, it is still not what fans are craving, and even I can't help but feel something is amiss. And I believe I can take a guess at what it may be.

Both @raynoqw & @schwarz made solid points in the matter.

What Hulk needs is a writer in the vein of Geoff Johns, Scott Snyder, Greg Pak and Peter David.

Banner needs to be intelligent, one of the Smartest there is, clever, sympathetic and interesting. He needs to create advanced tech-based devices, whether for himself or for the Hulk or for something else entirely.

Hulk needs to have personality (which thankfully Mr. Duggan has given us with Doc Green) and not be just a mindless, one-dimensional brute.

Hulk needs to be shown being powerful, the Strongest One of All/Strongest One There is.

He needs to have amazing, incredible feats of power that'll leave readers in awe.

He needs to face powerful threats, whether they be planetary, galactic, or universal in nature.

He definitely needs a superior rogues gallery, that's for sure. I mean, I can't be the only one who is tired of Hulk fighting heroes or Hulk fighting the Leader or Abomination, right?

And he needs an interesting, engaging supporting cast of characters composed of old favorites and new creations.

What is needed is a writer with vision for the character and an equally extraordinary artist. That's what I, and many others, believe that the Hulk/Banner character needs the most.

I've never really liked Hulk as a character, but I occasionally read his stories if I hear good things. Read Planet Hulk back when it first came out, some of Peter David's stuff, large chunk of Mark Waid's run and currently picking up Savage Hulk because Gabriel Hardman drawing Dr. Strange is awesome.

I am pretty sure that most hulk fans like raw power. Brutish amasing power. We also like the weak but intelligent banner. If you take out any of these two there is actually not much left. The whole "who shot bruce banner" to me was an insult to Hulk fans. A big farce, banner being a complete retard. Making my favorite character a complete vegetable was a slap in the face. Yes you can make a story that doesn't include power or smarts but then why write hulk at all. I don't want to speak for everybody but for me I think it is every boy's dream to let its inner monster out and become the most powerful being there is. It is a manly thing and the reason why a lot of bodybuilders LOVE the hulk. So when you make him mediocre in strength or not facing worthy oponents, it is like taking the beast inside, the will and rage to be strong. To me downplaying hulk is like a castration to its readers. Like I said this is my opinion and probably not every reader's opinion on hulk but that is my feeling more or less put into words of why I like Hulk and disliked the recent writers. All I am asking is to respect the roots of what made hulk. Back in the days in EVERY or most issues you would read there would always be a box of text saying something in the likes of "force never seen before" "stronger than a force of nature" "the strongest being known to man" so by bashing this into our heads since the begining that is what we expect now in 2014 as readers. And not some mediocre writing with "hulk is strong... but meh". It is like a women expecting to have the night of her life but you can't get it up. It is disapointing to her and ambarasing to you. I dont want ambarassement or disapointement when I read... why would I want that. Hulk fans want power, manliness. I want to be amased. Maybe I am just a douche who knows but I want explosions, things destroyed, powerful villains put down in crazy fights. I mean if I want mediocre I could just watch the twilight series with glitering vampires and call it a day. We went to the moon, we jump from the stratosphere we do double backflips on bikes. We strive to push ourselves to accomplish the impossible. I'm not saying that the hulk character in itself is inspiration but its strength is jaw dropping. Thay is want I want when I am being entertained. I want to finish reading the comics and be like "Holy *@^@/@, Hulk did this and that and gave a spanking to whoever" with my wife looking at me like... O...k and walk away because she doesn't care but I still do need to tell her because I need to tell the first person I see as fast as possible. I know I can't expect that from every comics but message to the writers, please do give us a bit of candy everyonce in a while if you want your readers to come back.

For 50+ years they sold the hulk as the strongest one there is to me and to most fans. That is what I expect. If I buy some whisky I expect it to be just that not watered down lemonade. I need something that goes down hard and makes me grin a little bit while the heat goes down to a satisfying "Ahhhhhhhh..."

I am going to read the Hulk series but just not yet.

And we all knew Death of Wolverine was going to sell a sh!t ton of copies.

Have to strongly disagree with you on this. Hulk fans dont seem any more misinformed than any other group on comicvine - which is a big site with a lot of people who dont know very much about comics and get most of their info from scans and wiki pages.

too many bad writers on Hulks books.

Because no Peter David.

No powerfeats, no readers.

I'm pretty sure Thanos vs Hulk will sell pretty good. Like I said before if you are going to sell a character as the strongest there is for 50+ years... well you gotta show it.

I have tried a bunch of Hulk books since Planet/WWH and haven't found any of them engaging enough to keep on my pull list.

I think he's a hard character to write since he is so powerful yet bound to earth. How many threats are there on earth that can challenge him that can be solved by Hulk Smash? There's 50 years of stories about the character so it's hard to keep writing new physical threats for him. Especially since his sole powerset is brute force. I'm interested in seeing where the Doc Green story goes as it is something different. The nice thing about Thor is that he/she has other realms that can pose as threats so you can get a good variety.

They have to make maestro come and fast. I want to see some powerful smashing. If not i'll just stop buying like I did for a while and Marvel will keep the low sales. No lowballing and status quo or dumb stalemate.

It's like a curse....Ever since Peter David left the title no writer stayed long even if the biggest names in the industry came(Jones,Pak,Loeb,Aaron,Waid)with an exception of Pak's 2 epic stories(Planet Hulk and World War Hulk)none of those writers gave us their best...It was like tey wrote something because they tell them to do it....Even Bruce Jones run that took Hulk to different landscapes(more dark and horror/mystery)was not well received(and now out of continuity...)

That's to bad because Hulk is the most compex character in the history of comics(and not only the strongest one there is)and every writer that given the chance to write him has a lot of material to work on it...All those previous writers left the title like they put a gun to their heads to do it...

Sure they'll be no one like Peter David for Hulk as they'll be no one like Claremont for the X-Men titles... Lately I enjoyed Duggan's run on the title and reminds me that of David(he knows the history of the character with a very good sense of humor)and I hope that this time we'll have a writer that came to stay on the title...

Maybe I'll be getting hate for this, but to make Hulk interesting to me he and Banner needs to be one person, not rivals. Banner's character is Hulk's and Hulk's character is Banner's, he should be able to transform from Hulk into Banner or from Banner to Hulk by will, a combination of intelligence and strength, when enraged even stronger, and together they should perform amazing feats on planetary level, go against formidable villains with more interesting secondary characters.

Great awesome thread. After all this, what does Marvel go and do? Remove Banner and replace him with a skateboarding kid and a Hulk that talks like a little nerd with a stoopid dumb ass hairstyle. Smart people over at Marvel.

Because I don't like them

Me either. It's a bummer though because I like the character, just not the comics. Although I'm not crazy about a lot of his supporting characters like the Red Hulk, Doc Sampson, Rick Jones, etc.

Pretty much the same

Still I think someone would have to force me to read anything Marvel at the minute

@soaring: You're right. When it gets like that, I like to go back in time and pick up something good that I missed from the 80's. There's always some great TPB's I haven't yet touched. Then again, that's sort of my thing. I used to be the avg comic fan too, always following the current trends and monthly doses but lately not so much

@ghostrider88:

It's been years since I've kept up with anything on a monthly basis, it takes too much effort - tpb's on amazon is so much easier, it just means being behind the curve a bit

I liked some of the early 90's Hulk stuff - might seem a bit cheesy now, I remember an issue with the Punisher in it, before crossovers were all the rage

There were some good Iron man stuff around this era as well - might be nostalgia though

Because when people like Waid and Pak write comics IT is only about Hulk being strongest there is and Banner being smartest there is.

Jesus I remember when David was writing the Hulk. Good times. Those times we have interesting character but now we have a guy who only smashes.

@krleavenger:

Greg Pak made it work. So what if Banner is one of the smartest there is, and Hulk is the strongest there is? It's just plain facts. And Pak made great stories with smashing & cool tech while adding much to the rich lore/mythology of the Banner/Hulk character.

Waid, on the other hand, regressed Hulk/Banner to the point that Hulk was only a snarling, roaring one dimensional beast and offered nothing new or exciting to the character's rich mythology/lore.

@greenscar1990: Banner was one of 10 smartest people and Hulk was one of strongest heroes even before Pak. I never said it is not a fact, it is a fact (although I hate when trolls are saying how Banner is smartest man on the planet because he isn't).

However, the only thing Pak was doing is making Hulk impressive.

I just can't believe how awesome stories David was writing. With Pak it is only "Hulk smash' Hulk smash". Besides Planet Hulk (which was an awesome story) everything after that on Pak was only making Hulk super strong. That is ok but that was it. The only thing writers are doing with the Hulk is making him impressive in power and it turned me down on the character.

I hope when Banner comes back to life we will have writers like Peter David to take the new Hulk title.