Which victory most impressed you in WWH ?

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Posted by Erkan12 (8863 posts) 5 years, 4 months ago

Poll: Which victory most impressed you in WWH ? (38 votes)

Black Bolt 8%
Hulkbuster and Avengers 8%
X-Men 21%
Fantastic Four (and Storm, Black Panther) 8%
Dr. Strange (and Ross) 34%
Stalemate with Full Power Sentry 45%

Black Bolt

Hulkbuster and Avengers

X-Men

Fantastic Four (and Storm, Black Panther)

Dr. Strange (and Ross)

Stalemate with Full Power Sentry

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#51 Posted by RaynorJ (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

But that doesn't answer the original question. And that's the thing it's just personal preference because you found the fights unimpressive doesn't mean others have and in fact in reality some of them where impressive when all things are considered. And of course i wouldn't dream of trying to convince you otherwise, i know that's a pipe dream with people on this forum.

What is "the original question?" Because I've been asked a lot of questions and I've tried to answer each to the best of my abilities. If you mean what would make his fights more impressive to me, what does it matter? I'm under no obligation to provide an alternative simply because I wasn't wowed by what happened, any more than you're obligated to explain why you didn't find Black Bolt as impressive as Sentry or Dr. Strange and how you would have made the Black Bolt fight as impressive as they were.

I'm not saying the fights weren't impressive to some people because clearly they were. As for myself, though, they were not. You say "in reality some of them where impressive when all things are considered." That's your belief and it's as valid as mine. I don't mean to imply otherwise. I simply don't agree that it's a truth, whereas you do. I mean, that's the nature of subjectivity, isn't it? The OP asks for personal opinion and I gave an honest answer. Just one apparently not many want to hear.

The original question is the one i asked you first about your response being the most redundant thing to say that can be said about 90% of the situations and therefore is not a valid point. Your answer basically comes down to this "i am not impressed with what Hulk did because that's what the writer wanted Hulk to do", really? I'd be hard pressed to find a comic where the story and events progresses by themselves and opposite of what the writer wanted.

I specifically said i was impressed with the BB(skrull) fight that Hulk had i just pointed out that it wasn't the real BB.

It transcends more than a belief. Just because you(subjectively) don't find it impressive doesn't mean that(objectively) it isn't impressive. By the very nature of it it's impressive seeing as Hulk did things none of his other incarnations did and some failed to do in the past, the fact that he did all those things while specifically stated several times that he was holding back throughout the entire event makes it undoubtedly impressive. Now i can understand you having whatever reason falls on your mind that day to not find it impressive yourself but that doesn't mean the thing isn't impressive. Subjectivity can take you only so far, i mean i can go and say i don't find the building of the Pyramids impressive, that wouldn't make them any less impressive just because of my opinion though.

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#53 Posted by RaynorJ (1503 posts) - - Show Bio
@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

But that doesn't answer the original question. And that's the thing it's just personal preference because you found the fights unimpressive doesn't mean others have and in fact in reality some of them where impressive when all things are considered. And of course i wouldn't dream of trying to convince you otherwise, i know that's a pipe dream with people on this forum.

What is "the original question?" Because I've been asked a lot of questions and I've tried to answer each to the best of my abilities. If you mean what would make his fights more impressive to me, what does it matter? I'm under no obligation to provide an alternative simply because I wasn't wowed by what happened, any more than you're obligated to explain why you didn't find Black Bolt as impressive as Sentry or Dr. Strange and how you would have made the Black Bolt fight as impressive as they were.

I'm not saying the fights weren't impressive to some people because clearly they were. As for myself, though, they were not. You say "in reality some of them where impressive when all things are considered." That's your belief and it's as valid as mine. I don't mean to imply otherwise. I simply don't agree that it's a truth, whereas you do. I mean, that's the nature of subjectivity, isn't it? The OP asks for personal opinion and I gave an honest answer. Just one apparently not many want to hear.

The original question is the one i asked you first about your response being the most redundant thing to say that can be said about 90% of the situations and therefore is not a valid point. Your answer basically comes down to this "i am not impressed with what Hulk did because that's what the writer wanted Hulk to do", really? I'd be hard pressed to find a comic where the story and events progresses by themselves and opposite of what the writer wanted.

I specifically said i was impressed with the BB(skrull) fight that Hulk had i just pointed out that it wasn't the real BB.

I was fine with the goal of the story. It was how he got there that I had a problem with. If the writer set out to have Hulk smash everything, then yes I have a problem with that because I believe it's poor storytelling. However, the point was to have Hulk go on a rage vendetta in a huge crossover. Seeing him do - well, the same thing he's always done, but on a larger scope, is not impressive to me.

I know you said Black Bolt's fight was impressive. What I was saying is that no one is making you answer for why you didn't find it as impressive as Sentry, or making you come up with a way that it could have been, simply because they disagreed with you. That's exactly what you're doing right now though.

@raynorj said:

It transcends more than a belief. Just because you(subjectively) don't find it impressive doesn't mean that(objectively) it isn't impressive. By the very nature of it it's impressive seeing as Hulk did things none of his other incarnations did and some failed to do in the past, the fact that he did all those things while specifically stated several times that he was holding back throughout the entire event makes it undoubtedly impressive. Now i can understand you having whatever reason falls on your mind that day to not find it impressive yourself but that doesn't mean the thing isn't impressive. Subjectivity can take you only so far, i mean i can go and say i don't find the building of the Pyramids impressive, that wouldn't make them any less impressive just because of my opinion though.

And I suppose you can look at the fights objectively because you're more free from bias than I am? Let's look at the definition of "impressive," as defined by Merriam-Webster:

making or tending to make a marked impression: having the power to excite attention, awe, or admiration

Or dictionary.com:

having the ability to impress the mind; arousing admiration, awe, respect, etc.; moving; admirable

Or hell, even whatever Google uses:

evoking admiration through size, quality, or skill: grand, imposing, or awesome.

Note that each requires an individual interpretation or filter, or else anything could be described as impressive. What is impressive to my cat may not be impressive to me because we filter the world differently; what's impressive to me may not be impressive to you and vice versa, for the same reason. Subjectivity's an integral part of what an individual finds impressive. There is no such thing as objective impressiveness because it needs an interpretation. That said, none of the fights in WWH evoked awe or admiration to me. So for me... none of the fights were impressive. For you and others, they were. But your opinion on the matter is not fact, and really, neither is anyone's opinion on the Pyramids. If you want to say they aren't impressive, that's your prerogative. Some people won't agree with you but it is opinion. Some will agree. I prefer the Nazca Lines myself.

And one last thing...

If you mean this to imply that I am inherently against WWH having impressive fights and that I make up reasons on a whim to justify it, I assure you that isn't the case. I would have to wonder why you resort to such accusations when I merely disagree with something you like.

It's not poor storytelling when you have the character do what he has done since he was made and what he will keep doing. I am not sure if you expected Hulk to come and take them to court or something. He did exactly what he was supposed to do when on a path of vengeance and blinded by anger. It's the Hulk having him not smash would be criminal ask any Hulk fan if they would be ok with this and look at how poorly the current IH is doing and how badly it is reflecting on the fans. And yes him doing what he always does and does best only on a larger scale does make it impressive.

That just means no one asked me a question and nothing more, feel free to ask me why i didn't find it as impressive and i will gladly answer in fact i already gave the answer the first time i posted about it.

I have no idea why you are going after the dictionary definition of impressive when we have Hulk going through Marvel superheroes and stomping on them if you do not find that impressive than you wouldn't find any of his previous fights impressive which just leaves me to think that you are the one with the bias against the character.

There is a thing as objectively being impressed the problem is there is also a thing called arrogance and ignorance, so you will see constantly people looking for excuses and being in denial simply because they feel like it or are biased against the subject. The thing about Pyramids is regardless of what i say they are an impressive feat, that's the whole point just because my "OPINION" is that they are not does not make it "FACT". It all comes down to ignorance(lack of knowledge on the matter) and arrogance(blatant denial).

Tell me than is there a Hulk fight in his 50+ years of existence that impressed you? And if so why did you find it impressive?

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#55 Edited by RaynorJ (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

It's not poor storytelling when you have the character do what he has done since he was made and what he will keep doing. I am not sure if you expected Hulk to come and take them to court or something. He did exactly what he was supposed to do when on a path of vengeance and blinded by anger. It's the Hulk having him not smash would be criminal ask any Hulk fan if they would be ok with this and look at how poorly the current IH is doing and how badly it is reflecting on the fans. And yes him doing what he always does and does best only on a larger scale does make it impressive.

That just means no one asked me a question and nothing more, feel free to ask me why i didn't find it as impressive and i will gladly answer in fact i already gave the answer the first time i posted about it.

I have no idea why you are going after the dictionary definition of impressive when we have Hulk going through Marvel superheroes and stomping on them if you do not find that impressive than you wouldn't find any of his previous fights impressive which just leaves me to think that you are the one with the bias against the character.

There is a thing as objectively being impressed the problem is there is also a thing called arrogance and ignorance, so you will see constantly people looking for excuses and being in denial simply because they feel like it or are biased against the subject. The thing about Pyramids is regardless of what i say they are an impressive feat, that's the whole point just because my "OPINION" is that they are not does not make it "FACT". It all comes down to ignorance(lack of knowledge on the matter) and arrogance(blatant denial).

Tell me than is there a Hulk fight in his 50+ years of existence that impressed you? And if so why did you find it impressive?

Are you saying it's not poor storytelling when there's no character evolution and they remain stale? I did not expect a court. That would be silly. Nor did I expect for there to be no smashing at all. I got just about what I was expecting actually - and it didn't impress. What does it matter why it didn't impress? It simply didn't.

It means your opinion is considered valid even though some may disagree. Why then, is my opinion considered invalid? Really, the only answer I seem to find is because you don't like it. That's not a reason at all.

The dictionary definition showed that there needs to be some subjective interpretation by which to consider something impressive. No one thing can evoke the same reaction in everyone because everyone's experience is different. Did the slaves that built the pyramids find them impressive when it's something they saw and worked on day in and day out? Do you get a sense of awe when seeing construction work on a skyscraper? Now do you think those ancient Egyptian slaves would? "Impressive" is a subjective term. That's all there is to it. Biased as I may be against the character (and I freely admit it's a possibility, if not a likelihood), consider that you are just as biased in wanting Hulk's actions to be impressive. It goes both ways. The only difference is that I am not enforcing my opinion on Hulk's fights on anybody else, simply sharing it and defending it. You are enforcing yours, or at least you're trying to.

Find none of Hulk's previous fights impressive? How is that a logical jump from what I said? If it's the norm that he beats all these character why would it be impressive when it's become commonplace?

"Hulk slash." Quick adaptation in combat where he couldn't rely on brute strength.

No i am saying it's not poor storytelling to have Hulk do what he always does. The even itself was not that good, though it had character evolution on Hulks part. That's the point it doesn't matter if it didn't impress some random individual on the internet it doesn't take away from the fact that it is impressive.

This is not my opinion vs yours, this is not an opinionated thing. There are simply things that are impressive whether some chose to find it impressive or not i told you about the Pyramids already not mine or yours or someones elses lack of enthusiasm about it makes it any less impressive.

Something that is listed as one of the 7 Wonders of the World does not need every person on the planet to find it impressive, it's already an impressive thing whether you chose to accept it or not. Nothing can evoke the same reaction with every single person that is true but that doesn't change things it still all comes down to arrogance and ignorance. How do you know what the slaves thought of them? I get a sense of awe when i see impressive skyscrapers yes like with Burj Khalifa that happens to be the current tallest building ever built. Of course i am biased in wanting Hulks actions to be impressive however i call out when they are not constantly i am not impressed with the entire IH run and i made this apparent several times and i actually debated against 2-3 Hulk fans that Hulks feat against Exitar is not quantifiable, as a Hulk fan you would think that i would jump all over that seeing as if it would be one of the biggest Hulk feats EVER, but i don't because it's simply to hard to determine just how much Hulk was involved in it. I am not enforcing anything, you are simply not impressed with Hulk altogether, i mean even the only thing you tell me you found impressive about him in his half a century existence is one instance of him when he doesn't actually rely on brute strength. You just simply are not the right audience for it.

What has become commonplace? Everything Hulk did in WWH he did before? Is that what you are saying?

Hulk slash? You see, you proved all the points i had. You don't find the thing impressive and would never find any fight of Hulks impressive where he fights like has for 50 years because you are looking for out of the ordinary things. Is this just with Hulk or do you find yourself in the same situation when Superman beats someone with brute strength or when Thor beats someone with Miljonir or when Wolverine beats someone with his claws? Or any other superhero you follow or like that beats someone the same way they have for decades and decades now.

You must be a real masochist, i don't think comics are for you, every few years(maybe) you would actually find an issue where Superman beats someone with a knife and finally you would have something to be impressed by.

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#56 Posted by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran:

If WWH didn't impress you why are you spending so much time on this thread arguing about it? This is a respect thread (not specifically named as such, but it is) for the WWH feats.

Most of us here loved it. Why is it impressive? Because even though you know with Hulk his style is smash, a book like this still leaves you in awe at just how much brute power he has..

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#58 Posted by RaynorJ (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran: There is nothing to accept, you have your opinion as does everyone else but opinions are different from facts. If you think you where just gonna give your 2 cents present them as factual answers and waltz out of here as if you shut down every Hulk fanboy and person that found WWH impressive, you had another thing coming. You could say that your opinion wasn't a bit to much as it was bit too little.

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#60 Posted by RaynorJ (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

@mitran: There is nothing to accept, you have your opinion as does everyone else but opinions are different from facts. If you think you where just gonna give your 2 cents present them as factual answers and waltz out of here as if you shut down every Hulk fanboy and person that found WWH impressive, you had another thing coming. You could say that your opinion wasn't a bit to much as it was bit too little.

"Which victory most impressed you in WWH?"

"Honestly, none"

Yes, I completely expected to shut down Hulk fans with that. That was the essence of a thread closer right there. I still don't understand how it didn't work.

If you are gonna quote yourself at least do it properly.

"Honestly, none. Going into WWH knowing Hulk would win everything didn't make his winning very impressive."

That jab at the end as if you just dissed the entire event because we knew Hulk was gonna win every battle.

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#62 Posted by XxEdward_KenwayXx (672 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza: sentry's strength and speed and durability are nowhere near Superman's level.

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#63 Posted by Erkan12 (8863 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza: sentry's strength and speed and durability are nowhere near Superman's level.

I say Sentry better. Especially when he using his full power one million exploding sun, he basically becomes sun or black hole(void), while sups needs a sun for fueling his power.

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#64 Posted by RaynorJ (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

@mitran: There is nothing to accept, you have your opinion as does everyone else but opinions are different from facts. If you think you where just gonna give your 2 cents present them as factual answers and waltz out of here as if you shut down every Hulk fanboy and person that found WWH impressive, you had another thing coming. You could say that your opinion wasn't a bit to much as it was bit too little.

"Which victory most impressed you in WWH?"

"Honestly, none"

Yes, I completely expected to shut down Hulk fans with that. That was the essence of a thread closer right there. I still don't understand how it didn't work.

If you are gonna quote yourself at least do it properly.

"Honestly, none. Going into WWH knowing Hulk would win everything didn't make his winning very impressive."

That jab at the end as if you just dissed the entire event because we knew Hulk was gonna win every battle.

Was it not implicitly understood that that was my opinion?

Not really considering how you carried yourself in our little debate. If you do admit it's just your opinion on the matter however i will drop the whole thing and we can all move our separate ways.

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#66 Posted by RaynorJ (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

@mitran said:

@raynorj said:

@mitran: There is nothing to accept, you have your opinion as does everyone else but opinions are different from facts. If you think you where just gonna give your 2 cents present them as factual answers and waltz out of here as if you shut down every Hulk fanboy and person that found WWH impressive, you had another thing coming. You could say that your opinion wasn't a bit to much as it was bit too little.

"Which victory most impressed you in WWH?"

"Honestly, none"

Yes, I completely expected to shut down Hulk fans with that. That was the essence of a thread closer right there. I still don't understand how it didn't work.

If you are gonna quote yourself at least do it properly.

"Honestly, none. Going into WWH knowing Hulk would win everything didn't make his winning very impressive."

That jab at the end as if you just dissed the entire event because we knew Hulk was gonna win every battle.

Was it not implicitly understood that that was my opinion?

Not really considering how you carried yourself in our little debate. If you do admit it's just your opinion on the matter however i will drop the whole thing and we can all move our separate ways.

You must be joking. You have to be joking. I have nothing to admit because I said that in nearly all the back and forths I had with you. Hell, I said it in nearly every post I've made on this thread up to and including the very one you just quoted, even before you took issue with my first response.

Post 30

I'm allowed to give my opinion.

Post 39

Or are you saying no one is allowed to give an opinion you don't like?

Post 44

I was not impressed by the continuous "Hulk smash" method of winning.

Post 46

I simply didn't find it entertaining.

Emphasis on "I" for the last two. I was not speaking for anyone else or speaking about general matters, only expressed my feelings on the matter.

Post 48

You seem to find "Hulk smashing, but bigger" impressive. I don't. It's a difference of opinion.

Post 50

I'm not saying the fights weren't impressive to some people because clearly they were. As for myself, though, they were not.

Post 52

That said, none of the fights in WWH evoked awe or admiration to me. So for me... none of the fights were impressive.

Post 54

Why then, is my opinion considered invalid?

Post 61

Was it not implicitly understood that that was my opinion?

I never even pretended my answer was not an opinion. What I argued is that this matter is subjective and that a subjective answer cannot be wrong (and of course, neither can it be right). I never said that anyone was incorrect in their response because it's all just personal taste and I'm fine with differing opinions. Neither did I try to convince everyone or anyone who enjoyed the fights in WWH that they were wrong, only provided justification for my point of view. I have to wonder how much you read of what I wrote, but now that that's all cleared up, I guess we can go on our separate ways.

I am not joking and bombing me with random sentences you've taken from your posts doesn't dispute the fact that we just debated for quite a while because you want to prove to me that the fights are not impressive, while i tried to explain that because they are not impressive to you does not make them overall impressive, but of course you went on how subjective opinions are right and wrong tangent just to dodge the fact that your opinion is WRONG. And as long as we can agree on that as long as your personal taste and standards have nothing to do with anything are clear here because anyone at random could just make up ridiculous reasons to find something impressive, then yes we can move our separate ways. Unfortunately i have been saying this for the past 2-3 posts but somehow it's still not working with you.

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#67 Posted by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran:

No-one's bothered that you didn't find WWH impressive, just don't understand why you have hung around to go on and on about it...

@erkan12

I would agree that Sentry is up on Superman....

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#69 Posted by Kairan1979 (27397 posts) - - Show Bio

I won't count X-Men as a victory since Mercury convinced him to leave.

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#71 Edited by Avatar_of_Green (3214 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12: to you and OP, when he defeated Strange it was also the demon Zom. Zom is ridoculously powerful, much more so than Sentry. Also, Dr. Strange could literally erase Hulk with a snap of his fingers. No lie. He just chose not to kill. He could have BFR'ed Hulk anywhere he wanted. But he wanted to make Earth face their sins. It was PIS and luck that Hulk won at all.

Not to mention they "forgot" about Franklin Richards in the F4 fight lol.

I assure you, defeating Dr. Strange was the luckiest, most PIS, overreach in a while. Dr. Strange would destroy Sentry. The fact people are choosing Sentry proves their knowledge is lacking.

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#72 Posted by lordraiden (9664 posts) - - Show Bio

On a side note: Hulk did not stalemate Sentry, he whooped him. ; )

Agreed

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#73 Posted by HighAccuser (9696 posts) - - Show Bio

FP Sentry battle was pretty badass

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#74 Posted by kgb725 (19695 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#75 Edited by Avatar_of_Green (3214 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: He would kill/BFR/disincorporate Sentry instantly with a single thought. Sentry has nothing to put him on Strange's level. Do you have any idea how powerful Strange can be?

"Speed blitz FTW!!!" Get that crap out of here. Strange has killed an entire alternate Earth JLA knockoff simultaneously, including a Sentry remake called Sun God. Sun God put Hulk down for good with a few punches and energy projection before this. Strange is far above planetary.

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#76 Posted by linsanel_Doctor (8630 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved his fight with the stranger. so funny

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#77 Posted by darthdeadpool (1278 posts) - - Show Bio

@green_skaar: that's not being a hater that's just the truth. It was entirely pis filled, on par with deadpool kills the marvel universe

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#78 Posted by AtheistKnowledge (9595 posts) - - Show Bio

@green_skaar: that's not being a hater that's just the truth. It was entirely pis filled, on par with deadpool kills the marvel universe

False, all the PIS accusations have been debunked.

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#79 Posted by BurningMartian (884 posts) - - Show Bio

What's with all the PIS accusations? Apart from Strange and Sentry, noone was on Hulk's level in any of his fights. Strange lost because he was losing control of his power as Zom and his regular powers were lost to him as his hands had been crushed. The Sentry fight is actually one of Sentry's greatest on panel showing of strength instead of the other way around.

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#80 Edited by darthdeadpool (1278 posts) - - Show Bio

@atheistknowledge: hulk is poo and incredibly easy to beat if the heroes just thought about it for a second then all attacked at the same time

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#81 Posted by AtheistKnowledge (9595 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthdeadpool: Yea if only comics where not fun and every time someone attacked Earth, Avengers wouldn't fight him instead of summon some reality warpers to do it for them and end it in a single page.

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#82 Posted by darthdeadpool (1278 posts) - - Show Bio
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#83 Posted by AtheistKnowledge (9595 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthdeadpool: That was not admitting it was PIS, is comprehension not your strong point?

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#84 Posted by darthdeadpool (1278 posts) - - Show Bio

@atheistknowledge: you said that the avengers could have just got reality warpers and they obviously could have got all their strongest to attack at once. That's the defintion of plot induced stupidity

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#85 Posted by AtheistKnowledge (9595 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthdeadpool: By that logic, every single event has plot induced stupidity, making the whole point moot in the first place.

Sigh... there are not enough facepalms in the world...

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#86 Edited by Stahlflamme (5858 posts) - - Show Bio

@atheistknowledge: The moment I find a meme depicting a five-dimensional facepalm I send it to you just for ocassions like this. No, I don't know how that looks, I just know this situation calls for it.

Overall, the truth is World War Hulk had actually some of the best thought out fights. I mean with most people who beat Juggernaut in a one-on-one the guy just stops being unstoppable so that they can WWH exploited that power. If most writers want a character that can always reform or is virtually indestructible they somehow just have those guys go down anyways, Hulk tosses them a few states far away so they don't bother him anymore. If most writers want a team to be solod by a character they just have them charge the threat without a plan, in World War Hulk the X-men actually have a strategy, even one that works to a degree. Reed Richards actually does build a plot device. And oh, hey they don't use reality warping to resolve the threat before it happens... Pointing out that option with Strange and wanting to call in their most powerful hero, Sentry, from the get go is a lot more than almost all stories tend to do.

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#88 Edited by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

Impressive as far as a feat goes was the strange fight. My favorite was the sentry fight though. It was impressive on Panel. I did not vote though since it was not a stalemate. One was standing and became even more powerful and one passed out. And enough with the PIS accusations... god. Let's just not write comic books and have the heroes just prevent any villains to exist with reality warpers or time travel to kill them as kids. sigh...

Wahhhhhhh I don't like this or that character so it's stupid wahhh...god shut the ... up. I'm pretty sure we are all adults here, sometimes it feels like a bunch of spoiled kids fighting in the school yard. "I don't like it, it's stupid." PIS is really opinion based more than anything else. You think it is stupid, alright kid go write your own comic book and gtfo.

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