I voted for infinity, issue 15 of Hulk got me worried

Infinity.

More of a chance for the Hulk to make an impact.

Something his core series has been lacking.

Infinity, i am becoming less and less interested with the Indestructible Hulk series.

@raynorj: @greenscar1990: So are you guys saying it isn't worth checking out? I've been interested but haven't jumped in yet.

@spinningbirdcake: It started out great, many agreed that it was one of the best if not the best series out of Marvel NOW. And than several issues into it, it started going downhill for me. But everyone is different and i can only speak for myself, as i know people who still love the series. Just know that this is more of a Banner run than a Hulk one.

Indestructible Hulk, Hulk so far has done nothing in Infinity and I see no reason why that would suddenly change.

@papinacho: He hasn't done anything noteworthy in Indestructible Hulk either.

Pretty cool durability feat as well

@mr_winchester: @theacidskull:

Yea while holding Chrono Metal, i am pretty sure any 100 class could have done it. Either way it's inconclusive.

A featless weapon, show me someone around Hulks level getting knocked out by it and i will give credit to it. As Greenscar said Waid is more about telling something than showing it. Waid: "This weapon is Thor level ordinance, there i said it so i don't have to prove it".

@theacidskull: Is there really proof of that? I am pretty sure Juggy could have done it easily and probably Thor and Herc. Well that's what i am talking about, he had to hold Chrono metal for him to achieve such a feat without it he could not have broken it, so he couldn't do it on his own with his own strength.

This weapon doesn't need feats as the power level capabilities of the weapon had already been stated. Sure it would've been nice to see other showcasing of the weapons but whichever way you look at it, the fact that Hulk resisted the re-arrangement of his own molecules is impressive in it's own right.

@mr_winchester: So if some random thugs trying to sell a weapon said that the weapon can take out Galactus and Hulk shrugged it off, then what? Showing the weapon instead of telling about it makes it infinitely more viable. It's not the first time Hulk resisted something similar. You know what a cooler feat is? Hulk resisting quantum molder something we know Ultron used to reshape his Adamantium, still it's probably secondary Adamantium which makes it less impressive.

@theacidskull:

There is no proof that he can't shatter it either. Juggernaut broke the space/time barrier without making it tangible with some outside source.

I get what you're saying despite the not so good use of analogy there. A thug selling a weapon would obviously big up his weapon in hopes of making a sell that's it nothing more. However in Indestructible comic, Maria Hill remarked about the weapons power level based on gathered Intel from Shield, in addition Bruce Banner (one of the smartest people on earth) deduced the weapons capabilities which does serve as a viable testament to the power of the weapon. A thug making a remark isn't anywhere on the same page as a Shield Agent or Banner remarking about a weapon. Waid wrote those statements from these characters as show of validation as to just how powerful an dangerous the weapon is, hence Shield was on task.

I agree with you 100% that showing what a weapon can do instead of talking about it is much more viable, however given how the story was written in accordance with certain characters, Hulk being able to tank that blast is a note worthy feat.

Wow. Total opposite reaction for me. Started off very slow and uninspired. Seems like Waid is just getting into the idea of writing Banner/Hulk whereas before the whole idea just kind of perplexed him.

Arrrghhhh! - cant agree with this either Acid Skull! While Hulk might end up looking bad in Infinity 6 I love Hickman's work and have been digging this series.

Its never even stated that he had to grab Chronal Metal to break the barrier - Banner attributes the feat to the Hulk and to raw power. He grabs the chronal metal because time was moving too slowly and while he was transforming into the Hulk it was happening far too slowly for him to be able to do anything. Chronal metal may well have played a decent part in making the feat possible but frankly theres no way I see someone like Thor/Herc/Juggernaut pulling that off. It was an insane feat.

So if some random thugs trying to sell a weapon said that the weapon can take out Galactus and Hulk shrugged it off, then what?

Thats hardly analogous - it wasnt some random dude on the street telling us that the weapon was "Thor level ordinance". Do you really expect Thor to walk into the story and start comparing Mjolnirs best shots to the weaponry? Its obvious what the story meant. Its like when Superman "benched the Earth for 5 days", He didnt actually bench the Earth but we accept that the scientist was telling the truth because we have no reason to believe otherwise.

Showing the weapon instead of telling about it makes it infinitely more viable. It's not the first time Hulk resisted something similar. You know what a cooler feat is? Hulk resisting quantum molder something we know Ultron used to reshape his Adamantium, still it's probably secondary Adamantium which makes it less impressive.

But wait - how do we know Mad Thinker was telling the truth? Maybe he was bluffing. We are just accepting some guys word for it that he was using Ultron's old quantum molders..

There is no proof that he can't shatter it either. Juggernaut broke the space/time barrier without making it tangible with some outside source.

Massively amped. Theres no hard proof of anything in comics but Hulk is the strongest one there is in a situation where he had to smash something - the idea of Hulk smashing things that nobody else can smash when hes pushed is hardly new nor is the idea of Hulk gettin way stronger than Class 100 types like Herc/Thor/Juggs.

Infinity 6 cause i wanna see Hulk get destroyed with utter ease by the Mad Titan .

Out of here hater! ;-)

I don't hate Hulk i just like Thanos alot more hahaha .

Nooo!! Infinity, yes but I wanna see Hulk give a good account of himself...I'm fed up with that grinning titan one shotting all my favourite heroes!! I don't have a problem with the "baddy" being stronger than the "goodies", but at least make it a vaguely interesting contest, I mean Emperor Palpatine was a bad ass, but at least him and Yoda had a reasonable face off in Star Wars 3...

It's not stated it's implied. Banner tends to exaggerate and at the same time underrate things Hulk can do(he did it in that exact chapter), i just can't see Hulk punching through time as an actual pure physical feat, not in that issue.

I never said Thor shoud show up i just said the weapon needs FEATS, it doesn't have to be Thor telling us, if the weapon is so powerful as they claim than by now in some comic(it doesn't even have to be Indestructible Hulk) it should have surfaced taking out someone around Hulks level. We saw Superman benching the weight of Earth we did not hear it happen offscreen by some scientist retelling the story. We did not actually see the weapon being used on anyone besides Hulk and some random human.

He could be lying you are right, we don't know but it's easier to accept something that actually happened than it is to accept them talking about it happening. Well that's the point of Juggernaut he is almost always amped by Cytorak still he achieved something Hulk never did so he can't smash harder than anyone(not in terms of feats) and his strength feats are still not the best, not until he lifts something bigger than the Midgard Serpant. So like i said i would like for things to be shown not talked about and i don't like when they are left for speculation.

I agree with what you said but at the end of the day it's just information gathered and formed into a theory it's not a proven fact. It's open to speculation and because of that it can be disputed. Now we didn't need Thor to show up but the weapon knocking out or damaging some 100 class would have been much better than disintegrating a regular human.

Well everyone has different opinions for me the Blind rage arc and the Chronarchist arc was by far the weakest and arcs out of it, it did not deliver on any of it's promises and it actually did damage to Banners character as oppose to before where Banner was shining.

First issue of Hulk is still probably the best issue of the series.

Hmmm. I dont think theres much reason to think Banner exaggerates in regard to the Hulk (except for obvious use of similes etc) in Waid's run. He does perhaps underestimate him but then again pretty much everyone does - Hulk does incredible things that even evil geniuses dont account for.

I think thats a slightly silly way to look at things in a fictional world - these weapons are one-offs that are enver going to appear again. The idea that they would or should show up in an another story to prove they are Thor level is unnecessary IMHO. Almost always i think its best to just go with what the story is trying to say.

Did we see Superman bencing the weight of the Earth? I saw hi in a pair of boxer shorts pushing on some metal bars. We are told that Superman is benching the Earth. By some chick. Just like we are told these are "Thor level ordinance". We shouldnt accept everything we are told in a comic but if there is no reason to believe otherwise and/or it seems clear that this is what the writer intended to be true....why question it?

OK firstly feats and what people can do are hugely variable from story to story let alone writer to writer. The fact that one guy thought Juggernaut could punch through reality by swinging his arms in the air doesnt necessarily prove he was stronger than Hulk's ever been IMO despite the fact that its obviously a massive strength feat.

Wow. All i can say is I massively disagree with this. Firstly - feats are a pretty terrible way to judge strength (and most other things). What strength feats does Thanos have? What strength feats does Kurse have? Feats vary tremendously as stated and more or less arbitrarily placed exactly at the intersection of what a given writer feels is both impressive and reasonable on a given day. Having said that - Hulk and Superman have the best collection of strength feats in comics. Thor doesnt even come remotely close. The Midgard Serpent is kinda nice (though also arguably pretty dubious feat given the ethereal nature of it all) but after that Thor's showings drop off tremedously. Seriously - struggling to support part of a skyscraper probably makes it into the top 10 of Thor's strength feats. That wouldnt even make it into a Hulk respect thread.

Again - if you choose to see it that way thats totally up to you. But the list of things that we know and arent in some way told in relation to comic book feats is pretty damn slim. Again - that Superman Earth feat - the only way we know how impressive it is is because a character in the book tells us so.

Thing is Hulk is not Thanos equal as in the preview it seems Thanos blocks Thor's attacks with ease so how they have Thanos lose is gonna be a huge task .

so hyped for it .

@fifthchild: Exactly because it's a fictional world is all the more reason for it to surface again. The creative range and freedom writers have allows them to easily utilize things like these wherever they want.

I saw Superman benching the weight that is equal to that of the Earth, that's an easier thing to accept because he either did bench that weight or he didn't. The weapon however can range all over it can either be overrated or be exactly as powerful as they say or even underrated. Just because they say it's Thor level ordinance does not mean someone like Thing couldn't have resisted it perhaps. While benching the Earth is straightforward that's why feats are needed.

No matter what you chose to think, Juggernauts feat put him above anything Hulk did in any of his stories under any writer.

So what are we suppose to judge strength by? Word of mouth? It's a comic it's gonna have different variations and it's gonna change countless writers not everyone is gonna be of same opinion. Still people usually take higher and feats and unfortunately it's our only and best way to judge someones strength. And as far as i know Hulk got strangled by a snake so would that fall into his respect thread? Like you said it varies a lot but you take the best ones and go by them.

All i am saying is show it rather than tell it.

I think both are around the same level when calm but Bloodlusted i feel Thor has way to much variety over Hulk ,still i don't see either hurting Thanos without some kind of help .

@theacidskull: Well the whole fight scene was pretty epic in general dunno if you've given it read yet.

@theacidskull: Yeah pretty disappointing in that regard, I mean the issue itself was solid but just expected him to do more than be held by the weight of a star. Everyone else in the team were pretty busy which is kinda annoying.

Pretty disappointed in Hulks showing in Infinity. Though being held by the weight of a Star, kinda craps all over Thors feat of being held by the weight of 20 planets.

I was right hahaha Hulk got destroyed with ease also guessed that Thane would defeat Thanos as well :) .

Yeah it was clear from the Black Bolt owning, that Hickman wasn't going to nerf Thanos, so kind of figured the Avengers would all got slapped around. At least we got another reference to Hulk being quick.

@mr_winchester said:

Looked like he was getting up there at the end - at first he was pushed to all fours by the weight but when Proxima rips the trident out he is either on his knees or squatting - the art is not particularly clear. Either option look a bit off to be honest.

Thats exactly the opposite way i would think about it - no other writer gives a crap about these weapons or is going to write a storyline where they show up just so people can think they are bad-ass. In real life - yeah they probably would show up and be on the news or whatever.

I dont think i can make it more clear than this we didnt see Superman benching the weight of the Earth unless you are willing to believe the character in the story who tells us he did. This scene - essentially the same thing.

Thats hugely debatable. In Heart of the Monster when Hulk collided with Betty the planet exploded. In WWH he was so strong that his merest footsteps broke Manhattan in half. Did this happen when Juggernaut swung his arm or when he walked? No. Therefore Hulk was much, much more powerful. Right?

Do you see how this doesnt work? No two writers are going to have the same idea on what will happen when mega powerful character x punches something really hard. Thats why feats in isolation and taken completely literally are bad ways to gauge this sort of thing.

Via comparison to other characters. By trying to get an idea of how a character is most typically displayed rather than taking one or two outliers and ignoring everything else. When people on boards like this take a couple of feats and base everything off that (as tends to happen on comicvine) thats when we see peoples opinions on how powerful a character is diverge significantly from what the comic books usually show.

Its certainly not the only way and I think its both the least sophisticated and the most misleading. Its what people around here do so in some way you have to at least address such arguments but the idea that a collection of the best things a character has ever done - no matter how far from the norm they might be is the most accurate represntation of how strong they really are should be quite obviously problematic.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the Snake comment. Thor got knocked out by a falling ship mast. Surfer got KOed by a thrown brick. Superman struggled with a 2 ton weight. All are super low showings and are no more indicative of how Thor/Hulk/Superman etc will typically be portrayed in the next comic book you open than their highest feats ever.

Well, now I'm going to speak my mind in regards to Infinity #6. It was overly predictable and disappointing. Besides the art, there was only two scenes that I enjoyed. When Hulk had a smile on his face as he rebounded from Thanos' punch and when he held the weight/force of a star.

This whole last issue could have been truly epic. But it fell flat. Hulk transforming back into Banner in the middle of the conflict made no sense at all, despite having Proxima Midnight ripping her weapon out of him. In a life or death altercation like that, Banner should have remained transformed. I know for a fact that this wouldn't have occurred if it was the Green Scar incarnation, who would have powered through and continued to fight on. But this I put the blame on the Marvel Editors/Executives, Mark Waid and Jonathan Hickman for not knowing how utilize planet-busting powerhouses like Hulk, Thor and Hyperion. All share the blame here for the Hulk and everything else that transpired in this final issue.

And what irks me the most is that some Thanos' fans, those who think

that the Mad Titan should be utterly unstoppable and walk over even the big guns like they're insects, complain about him being defeated by Thane via plot device. What did they expect? They complained about the mere thought of the combined might of Thor, Hulk and Hyperion engaging Thanos and laying him out in a grand, epic fight. That wasn't good enough for some of them. But to others, like myself, it would have been A LOT better than what we received. At least then it would have still given Thane a chance to get the last unexpected blow in while giving the big guns like Hulk, Thor and Hyperion a chance to shine.

Now it seems like Thane is set to replace Thanos, becoming a far greater threat than his father ever was. Not my words, but Hickman's. That's going to be tough for Thane to pull off. I mean, Thanos become Omniverse Supreme in 'Marvel: The End', was virtually omnipotent when he obtained the Infinity Gems, and was a universal threat when he held the Cosmic Cube.

So how is Thane going to compare to all that Thanos has done?

And Waid's Indestructible Hulk #16 was fairly lackluster. So much for Hulk's Ultimate Potential. Nothing we haven't seen before. When the Hulk actually does something impressive, then I'll notice. Until then, we're stuck with a vastly regressed Hulk and a seemingly uninteresting storyline for the coming months.

I have to be honest. 2006-2007 was a great time to be a Marvel comic fan. Greg Pak was on Hulk, JMS was on Thor, we had a solid event in Annihilation. Everything was fun and entertaining. But now? Ugh!

It seems nearly everyone at Marvel has forgotten how to write great, engaging, action-packed, fun stories. There's a few exceptions, but not many. Best comic of this week? One that actually delivered everything one could want? Godzilla: Rulers of Earth #6! Now that was a fun, exciting, action-packed issue.

@fifthchild: Well i guess we will agree to disagree, since i see comics as a an opportunity to expand on things shown in other comics. For instance Zemo was the one acquiring those weapons, so whoever uses him next has an opportunity to implement those weapons, otherwise that whole subplot is pointless. But hey they don't have to use it as you say.

It's still a relative term in terms of Thor level ordinance is it top end or the low end, while the weight of the Earth is clear. I can believe the one who told me Superman benched that much. But i see Hulk getting knocked out by Miljonir and i say but he shrugged off Thor level ordinance only to realize that the weapon was at an low end feat.

Or maybe Juggernaut just has much better control over his strength than Hulk. If we can't judge how powerful characters are based on feats, what are we suppose to judge them by? What is the point of respect threads and VS threads?

But you just said different writers display different feats, so who is to say if writer A shows Superman benching a planet is wrong when writer B shows him struggling to move a third of the planets weight? Maybe the one with the high end feat is the one that's right. Because some writer showed Silver Surfer getting knocked out by a brick wall falling on his head am i to guess that Thing can KO him rather easily?

I am trying to say who get's to determine what is the middle ground? Do you not see how complicated and fucked up the whole thing would turn out? It maybe faulty but it's better to stick with one idea and go with it rather than to figure out the middle ground between Hulk getting KO'd by a gorilla and tanking a shot from Galactus.

Thanos has little in the way of feats to suggest he's at Hulk's level. His most impressive showings without an external power source are beating the Silver Surfer after a cheap shot. The Galactus 'feat' isn't much of a feat as once Galactus recovered he easily blasted through Thanos' shields at which point Thanos begged for mercy. We've already seen how difficult it was for Beyonder, who is Galactus level, to restrain Hulk in another thread. Thanos was killed by Drax, twice. He doesn't have Hulk's durability. When he punched Hulk in Infinity 6, Hulk smiled.

Hulk has been positioned as the strongest Marvel character since the mid 1990s. It was Hulk, not Thor, that punched a hole in reality against Onslaught, turning the tide of the battle. The same Onslaught that had Juggernaut crying like a little girl.

In Fear Itself Hulk beat Thor senseless, literally. If you consider a BFR a win (it's a way to avoid fighting) then Thor won yet he was the one who collapsed, he was the one who had to be nursed back to health. Hulk took what may or may not have been a God Blast, fell to Earth then broke Adamantium, something no one else has ever done in the regular Marvel Universe. In Avengers Assemble Thanos used Hulk's limbs to smash Thor with his own hammer, knocking him out instantly which isn't the first time Hulk has shown Thor can dish it out with Mjolnir but can't take it. In Hickman's Avengers Abyss mind controlled Hulk (which shouldn't happen but that's another story), Hulk blindsided Thor and he jobbed to a tree. When he tried to do the same thing to Hyperion, Hyperion went to toe with Hulk.

Hulk has already shown time and time again his insane durability so what exactly have Thanos or Thor done to suggest they're stronger than the Hulk? Thor has a varied powerset yes but that's due to Mjolnir.