The Immortal Hulk - 2020

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GreenScar1990

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#1  Edited By GreenScar1990

The Strongest One There is... The Unstoppable... The Incredible...

The Immortal Hulk!!!!

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A new thread for a new year. Let all news, discussion, pictures, and information regarding Bruce Banner/The Hulk be here for all of us fans. And, by the looks of it, 2020 is gonna be a SMASH!!!!

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Lvenger

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A lot of Best comics of 2019 and best comics of the decade lists have included Immortal Hulk on them which is a big testament to how popular Ewing's run on Hulk has been. Hopefully the quality stays as high in 2020.

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LukaDoncicmvp

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True, Immortal Hulk is great comic, unlike Aaron Thor, who shits on his own protagonist.

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deactivated-5e0ebd234c15d

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@lvenger said:

A lot of Best comics of 2019 and best comics of the decade lists have included Immortal Hulk on them which is a big testament to how popular Ewing's run on Hulk has been. Hopefully the quality stays as high in 2020.

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Underfire47

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@lvenger said:

A lot of Best comics of 2019 and best comics of the decade lists have included Immortal Hulk on them which is a big testament to how popular Ewing's run on Hulk has been. Hopefully the quality stays as high in 2020.

The comic has been fantastic, I love how it's impossible to gauge where the comic is going next, however Al seems to be planning a mini World War Hulk event around issue 40, so can't wait for that one.

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worldbreakerhulk

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@underfire47: It's almost unpredictable but you can assume things according to hints given by Al Ewing himself: Thing vs Hulk rematch, TOAA's appearance in the future/9th cosmos timeline, Cosmic Hulk's possible prison break from TOBA's grasp...

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PlatinumThorns

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I'd admit that I'm overly familiar with physical forms of the comic industry since switch from digital, but does anyone know when there'll release an omnibus? After this run is finished or something after #30 is released?

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Gamma_Rage

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Advancements from Inmortal Hulk 30

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Battle123axe

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Really good setup issue of immortal hulk and al’s usage of the savage hulk and focus on the side characters was fantastic, as well as his usage of Dario and Xemnu, that last page was fantastic. Really exciting stuff here and it really gets me hyped for the next issues, which even the slower issues of immortal hulk always do well.

Hulk also had a fantastic TP resist showing in Tarot #2 today, his little scuffle at the beginning wasn’t anything that special but what I thought was an anti-showing for MEntal manip resist turned to one of The bests showings I’ve seen for him in recent years.

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Battle123axe

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Side note: Thor #2 was absolutely great in badassery and as an issue and if it keeps up on this track this’ll be a run on par with the greats and IH

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Underfire47

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Gonna post this here from Tarot #2, this might be Hulks best TP resistance feat so far, which is saying something.

Diablo a villain in Tarot manages to easily mind control a bunch of Avengers and Defenders pictured here

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The only one able to resist his control was an angry Hulk as explained here

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Battle123axe

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Immortal Hulk: Great Power was really good, if somewhat unnecessary. I’m interested in what everyone else thinks of it.

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Underfire47

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Immortal Hulk: Great Power was really good, if somewhat unnecessary. I’m interested in what everyone else thinks of it.

It was rather underwhelming, it had nothing to do with Immortal Hulk and the series horror theme, it could have literally been any Hulk. It also had a lot of inconsistencies with the Immortal Hulk series and in general, the plot device for Banner and Spiderman switching Hulks was hilariously contrived, i actually laughed out loud at that part. Loki comes out of nowhere while Hulk and Spiderman just happen to be next to one another and decides to just randomly remove Hulk from Banner because Hulk is all about energy according to him, which is untrue if we look at the Immortal Hulk series since gamma is not just energy but magic and divine, honestly it was a mess. This is definitely not how you do a one-shot. Fortunately Jeff Lemire will pick up the pace with the next one-shot since it will be horror based and it will follow the theme of Immortal Hulk series which is Hulk is tracking down gamma beings. Now that one i am looking forward to, Tom Taylor can go write a Spider-man comic if he wants to, because this was not a Hulk comic.

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andromeda101

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#14  Edited By andromeda101

So, is it now possible for any energy-manipulator to take away Hulk's power? Of course, Loki isn't just a nobody.

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Alphamon

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@andromeda101: knowing we’re hulks power comes from now this seems like pis now

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dami24434

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@andromeda101: loki has done that before to hulk anyways.

Tales to astonish #101. Sure it's not immortal hulk then but savage hulk but people saying pis are reaching.

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andromeda101

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@dami24434: I think it's because Hulk's power now is directly connected to TOBA, so Loki shouldn't be able to mess with such a powerful source.

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StrawberryPimp

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@dami24434: I think it's because Hulk's power now is directly connected to TOBA, so Loki shouldn't be able to mess with such a powerful source.

That didn't stop Absorbing Man from messing with his power.

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andromeda101

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#19  Edited By andromeda101

@strawberrypimp said:

That didn't stop Absorbing Man from messing with his power.

Didn't Creel just absorb a portion of his gamma energy? Loki seemed to have not only cut Hulk from his power source itself but was indirectly able to transfer to Parker himself.

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medulaoblaganda

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@andromeda101: How is that PIS though? Loki can drain him and he is done it before. Hulk said he wasn't gone entirely. He was in the dark screaming but no one could hear him again. Man i love this dialogue. Its so dope. This comic is actually amazing

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Battle123axe

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@battle123axe said:

Immortal Hulk: Great Power was really good, if somewhat unnecessary. I’m interested in what everyone else thinks of it.

It was rather underwhelming, it had nothing to do with Immortal Hulk and the series horror theme, it could have literally been any Hulk. It also had a lot of inconsistencies with the Immortal Hulk series and in general, the plot device for Banner and Spiderman switching Hulks was hilariously contrived, i actually laughed out loud at that part. Loki comes out of nowhere while Hulk and Spiderman just happen to be next to one another and decides to just randomly remove Hulk from Banner because Hulk is all about energy according to him, which is untrue if we look at the Immortal Hulk series since gamma is not just energy but magic and divine, honestly it was a mess. This is definitely not how you do a one-shot. Fortunately Jeff Lemire will pick up the pace with the next one-shot since it will be horror based and it will follow the theme of Immortal Hulk series which is Hulk is tracking down gamma beings. Now that one i am looking forward to, Tom Taylor can go write a Spider-man comic if he wants to, because this was not a Hulk comic.

Yeah i'd be fine with a non-horror focused book utilizing Immortal Hulk, i'd actually like one occasionally, but yeah most of the problems you had with it was more or less what I meant with it being "unnecessary", as in it didn't really have any purpose, not even featwise, required a stupid plot device and held no meaning and wasn't even accurate other than to for some reason tie in IH with Friendly Neighborhood Spider man.

Although i do have to say it wasn't all bad. it was cool to see spidey and hulk interact, although the whole loki thing was incredibly incredibly stupid, and i think banner and hulk's voice at the beginning and end, especially the end, was fantastic.

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Gamma_Rage

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#22  Edited By Gamma_Rage

Hulk saying Banner is family and he would do anything for him is wholesome,after all their history of hatred between each other is amazing

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TakenStew22

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#23 TakenStew22  Online

Hulk saying Banner is family and he would do anything for him is wholesome,after all their history of hatred is amazing

Agreed. I'm so far behind, I need to catch up.

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theacidskull

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#24  Edited By theacidskull

Loki forcing the story to work in such a stupid manner is my only genuine gripe with the One-Shot - it could have been done a billion different ways. Loki's presence in the story was completely unnecessary, in fact, I'd rather they had tapped into some of the mysticism of the Green Door concept - shit, just have that thing come out of nowhere if the goal was to keep it simple. Otherwise, it was incredibly touching and added a fair bit of character depth to both Hulk and Peter, or at least their relationship.

I wish they get a chance to put that on the big screen in some form or capacity.

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Underfire47

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@theacidskull: Loki was so forced and contrived, it literally came out of nowhere. He appears out of nowhere and Hulk and Spiderman just happen to be next to one another and Loki for no real reason just decides to get rid of Hulk to save Earth, it was so contrived it's actually hilarious.

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theacidskull

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@theacidskull: Loki was so forced and contrived, it literally came out of nowhere. He appears out of nowhere and Hulk and Spiderman just happen to be next to one another and Loki for no real reason just decides to get rid of Hulk to save Earth, it was so contrived it's actually hilarious.

Yeah - and honestly there were better ways to set even that up. Loki literally appears twice for a second.

They wanted an excuse to have Spider-man and Hulk come to some sort of understanding, which was very touching and actually consistent with both characters, not only that but it actually added more depth to both.

But the story is the literal definition of forced.

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andromeda101

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@medulaoblaganda said:

How is that PIS though? Loki can drain him and he is done it before. Hulk said he wasn't gone entirely. He was in the dark screaming but no one could hear him again. Man i love this dialogue. Its so dope. This comic is actually amazing

Wasn't that before Hulk had a connection to TOBA and the Green Door? I mean, Loki himself said that Hulk was different.

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Underfire47

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#28  Edited By Underfire47
@andromeda101 said:

So, is it now possible for any energy-manipulator to take away Hulk's power? Of course, Loki isn't just a nobody.

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Not exactly, even Loki didn't do what he intended to do, Hulks energy just switched hosts instead of disappearing completely(and Hulk himself still remained locked inside Banner) and when it came to Spider-man he couldn't take his Hulk away at all, so it's very random. Absorbing Man(who was amped on Red Hulk juice) couldn't take away Hulks power completely and Rogue also failed to take away his gamma and depower him and even Loki didn't do exactly what he intended to do, so i would say no, not every energy manipulator can take away Hulks powers willy nilly, i suspect Loki also caught Hulk off-guard and that helped as well, it's similar to the Diablo scene above where Diablo was able to control a less angry Hulk who didn't know what hit him but was unable to do so again later on.

There is also a small "PIS" moment because Loki says it's all JUST energy inside Hulk, when it was established in the IH series that gamma isn't just your regular energy but is also partly magic/mysticism and the emanation of the divine.

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Underfire47

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#29  Edited By Underfire47
@andromeda101 said:

@medulaoblaganda said:

How is that PIS though? Loki can drain him and he is done it before. Hulk said he wasn't gone entirely. He was in the dark screaming but no one could hear him again. Man i love this dialogue. Its so dope. This comic is actually amazing

Wasn't that before Hulk had a connection to TOBA and the Green Door? I mean, Loki himself said that Hulk was different.

I think the difference part was the fact that Hulk could now absorb gamma energy, that's their conclusion when they said different so they figured out Banner could absorb Hulk from Spiderman. Which is kinda funny when you think about it. Loki took away Hulk from Banner but couldn't do so from Spider-Man, but Bruce(who only had a little Hulk gamma in him) could take away Spidermans Hulk/gamma completely. The issue just made up it's own rules as it went along.

Also another minor PIS moment is Banner said Hulk is a battery that is constantly losing gamma and needs to absorb it all the time, that's not true. Hulk can absorb energy but he isn't losing his own gamma constantly and will run out of it if he doesn't absorb it from somewhere else, i have no idea where the writer came to that conclusion.

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StrawberryPimp

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So... Did Hulk essentially get beat up by Thing? Again?

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Underfire47

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#31  Edited By Underfire47

@strawberrypimp: Spiderman Hulk yea, although he seems fairly weak for some reason, he couldnt even KO Banner who had a tiny bit of gamma in him. Also i wouldn call Hulk "beat up" last time since he barely had any damage on him, just beat Thing was more beat up of the 2, but won out at the end.

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StrawberryPimp

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@underfire47: SpiderHulk only landed two hits, and each hit allowed Banner to absorb a portion of his gamma, so it isn't that surprising Parker didn't KO him. Didn't Banner and Parker fear that Banner would get killed by that fight anyway?

How was "SpiderHulk fairly weak"? Immortal Hulk literally restored himself to 100% by absorbing his power, and he only had a fraction of his original strength before that.

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theacidskull

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@underfire47: SpiderHulk only landed two hits, and each hit allowed Banner to absorb a portion of his gamma, so it isn't that surprising Parker didn't KO him. Didn't Banner and Parker fear that Banner would get killed by that fight anyway?

How was "SpiderHulk fairly weak"? Immortal Hulk literally restored himself to 100% by absorbing his power, and he only had a fraction of his original strength before that.

That's not how Hulk's work. They draw pain from inner turmoil and Bruce's particular brand of abuse and strife is what amalgamates into the Hulk - even within the severed psyche, different Hulk's emerge for different reasons.

Peter Parker doesn't have murderous rage in him, at least not all the time. Banner does.

We'll get a rematch at some point between Hulk/Thing according to Al's twitter so that'll be that. Also, Banner and peter fearing a possibility does not mean that very thing might come to fruition. Banner was doing ok against a fully powered Hulk with Spider powers given how little juice he had, but even that didn't amount to how much damage Immortal was doing to The Thing during their fight on the beach, which honestly is the only thing you need to look at.

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Underfire47

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@strawberrypimp: One hit should have been enough given how little gamma Banner had in him. Yea they feared Banner would die from the gamma explosion.

He literally rampages all night long until dawn on a tiny island and only managed to bring down a couple of buildings, literally what did he do that would make him "strong"?

You are talking about gamma, Chulk had 100% of Hulks gamma but he was only as strong as pre core breach Savage Hulk.

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StrawberryPimp

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#35  Edited By StrawberryPimp

@theacidskull said:

That's not how Hulk's work. They draw pain from inner turmoil and Bruce's particular brand of abuse and strife is what amalgamates into the Hulk - even within the severed psyche, different Hulk's emerge for different reasons.

Peter Parker doesn't have murderous rage in him, at least not all the time. Banner does.

We'll get a rematch at some point between Hulk/Thing according to Al's twitter so that'll be that. Also, Banner and peter fearing a possibility does not mean that very thing might come to fruition. Banner was doing ok against a fully powered Hulk with Spider powers given how little juice he had, but even that didn't amount to how much damage Immortal was doing to The Thing during their fight on the beach, which honestly is the only thing you need to look at.

Immortal Hulk does not work like that. He can get stronger with rage, but his initial level of strength is not dependant on his rage or whatnot. Parker had the entirety of that power transferred to himself, and then had it taken back to fully restore IH's prowess.

Parker may not have "murderous" rage, but his repressed anger issues were alluded to in the issue.

Banner was only doing okay because he was absorbing his power back with every hit he took and landed, to the point that after 2 hits taken ane one landed he was able to basically shrug off Parker's hit. And even then he was pretty visibly scared after Parker backhanded him just once. That and their worries about survivalability of that fight paints a pretty clear picture of how inferior Banner was to Parker at the beginning of the fight.

@underfire47 said:

@strawberrypimp: One hit should have been enough given how little gamma Banner had in him. Yea they feared Banner would die from the gamma explosion.

He literally rampages all night long until dawn on a tiny island and only managed to bring down a couple of buildings, literally what did he do that would make him "strong"?

You are talking about gamma, Chulk had 100% of Hulks gamma but he was only as strong as pre core breach Savage Hulk.

That statement is completely baseless. We were not given any numbers regarding how much strength Banner had after gamma bath. For all we know it was just enough gamma to not die in one hit (which would make perfect sense - they specifically made the gamma blast just strong enough for Banner to take his power back). And even with the benefit of every contact giving him more power, Parker sent him flying with a single backhand, while Banner barely moved Parker's head with his first punch - there was clearly a decent gap between them.

So what? Immortal Hulk didnt't do any impreasive collateral damage in his entire career either, and there is no question if he is strong or not despite that. Hell, 99% of Banner's Hulk's rampages resulted in nothing more than knocked down buildings.

Except Chulk was as strong as him? The two literally fought to a draw.

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theacidskull

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#36  Edited By theacidskull

@strawberrypimp:

Immortal Hulk does not work like that. He can get stronger with rage, but his initial level of strength is not dependant on his rage or whatnot. Parker had the entirety of that power transferred to himself, and then had it taken back to fully restore IH's prowess.

Parker may not have "murderous" rage, but his repressed anger issues were alluded to in the issue.

Banner was only doing okay because he was absorbing his power back with every hit he took and landed, to the point that after 2 hits taken ane one landed he was able to basically shrug off Parker's hit. And even then he was pretty visibly scared after Parker backhanded him just once. That and their worries about survivalability of that fight paints a pretty clear picture of how inferior Banner was to Parker at the beginning of the fight.

Except it does and has for over decades now and has been revisited countless times by Peter David, Bill Mantlo, Greg Pak (Amadeus Cho and Banner talk about this), and his initial anger CAN be dependant on rage. Most Hulk's start at a base-line but if Banner is really pushed or if the events of his transformation are more stressful than usual he can start stronger. We've even seen it happen. Immortal Hulk works exactly the same.

But again, even if we go by your argument, what I told you is to analyze just how different the fight between Ben and Hulk was as opposed to the spider-man one. Grimm literally soaked up multiple spider-man punches and easily laid him out. With Hulk, Ben was being torn to shreds until his last Sunday punch put him out as well only for Hulk to walk away soon after while spider-man was out till the morning.

If that's not enough, spider-man with gamma radiation does not even equal the Immortal Hulk, a specific incarnation that comes from Banner's demented idea of love instilled in him by Brian Banner, which has not only to be explored by Al Ewing but the original form of the "Devil" Hulk persona (without the name) was the guilt version of the Hulk that he faced off during the merged storyline. Gamma radiation affects everyone differently - this has been established on more than one occasion within the marvel universe. That's why spider-man's childish rage was against the biggest person who's been hounding his life - Osborn. Difference is, Banner doesn't have a Ben Parker in his life to keep that core heroic value, he has Brian Banner, and his mother who was also being abused by Banner and could not protect Bruce, hence why Devil Hulk is sort of pseudo father figure to Banner and why out of all the Hulk's, he's the "Daddy Devil," as Joe Fixit puts it.

That's why some of us are saying that Loki's power swap was not only lazy and forced, but it doesn't make sense nor add up with anything that we've seen in Hulk lore, at least power-wise.

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ProfessorRespect

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StrawberryPimp

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Except it does and has for over decades now and has been revisited countless times by Peter David, Bill Mantlo, Greg Pak (Amadeus Cho and Banner talk about this), and his initial anger CAN be dependant on rage. Most Hulk's start at a base-line but if Banner is really pushed or if the events of his transformation are more stressful than usual he can start stronger. We've even seen it happen. Immortal Hulk works exactly the same.

But again, even if we go by your argument, what I told you is to analyze just how different the fight between Ben and Hulk was as opposed to the spider-man one. Grimm literally soaked up multiple spider-man punches and easily laid him out. With Hulk, Ben was being torn to shreds until his last Sunday punch put him out as well only for Hulk to walk away soon after while spider-man was out till the morning.

If that's not enough, spider-man with gamma radiation does not even equal the Immortal Hulk, a specific incarnation that comes from Banner's demented idea of love instilled in him by Brian Banner, which has not only to be explored by Al Ewing but the original form of the "Devil" Hulk persona (without the name) was the guilt version of the Hulk that he faced off during the merged storyline. Gamma radiation affects everyone differently - this has been established on more than one occasion within the marvel universe. That's why spider-man's childish rage was against the biggest person who's been hounding his life - Osborn. Difference is, Banner doesn't have a Ben Parker in his life to keep that core heroic value, he has Brian Banner, and his mother who was also being abused by Banner and could not protect Bruce, hence why Devil Hulk is sort of pseudo father figure to Banner and why out of all the Hulk's, he's the "Daddy Devil," as Joe Fixit puts it.

That's why some of us are saying that Loki's power swap was not only lazy and forced, but it doesn't make sense nor add up with anything that we've seen in Hulk lore, at least power-wise.

Where are you getting that IH's initial strength can depend on rage? The only times rage was mentioned in context of IH it was said to be a booster after he already transformed.

Yeah, okay, I can agree that Parker wasn't channeling Immortal Hulk. I can agree with Loki being a forced plot device as well. But the story was clearly meant to have Spider-Man run around with Hulk's power for a while, and it was pretty blatantly meant to be a Savage Hulk, despite the power coming from Devil Hulk. In any case, I can concede the IH point. But I do think that the feat should be treated like Thing kayoying Savage Hulk, due to the fact that Parker's Hulk was clearly manifesting as Savage Hulk and the fact that he clearly had enough energy to repower Hulk present in his body after the transfer.

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RabumAlal

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This series is dragging imo, at least we don’t get the religious text dumps that somehow are supposed to be cool and epic.

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Underfire47

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If you are counting only the last 6 months, actually even that isn't true since this isn't Banner Hulk.

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theacidskull

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@theacidskull said:

Except it does and has for over decades now and has been revisited countless times by Peter David, Bill Mantlo, Greg Pak (Amadeus Cho and Banner talk about this), and his initial anger CAN be dependant on rage. Most Hulk's start at a base-line but if Banner is really pushed or if the events of his transformation are more stressful than usual he can start stronger. We've even seen it happen. Immortal Hulk works exactly the same.

But again, even if we go by your argument, what I told you is to analyze just how different the fight between Ben and Hulk was as opposed to the spider-man one. Grimm literally soaked up multiple spider-man punches and easily laid him out. With Hulk, Ben was being torn to shreds until his last Sunday punch put him out as well only for Hulk to walk away soon after while spider-man was out till the morning.

If that's not enough, spider-man with gamma radiation does not even equal the Immortal Hulk, a specific incarnation that comes from Banner's demented idea of love instilled in him by Brian Banner, which has not only to be explored by Al Ewing but the original form of the "Devil" Hulk persona (without the name) was the guilt version of the Hulk that he faced off during the merged storyline. Gamma radiation affects everyone differently - this has been established on more than one occasion within the marvel universe. That's why spider-man's childish rage was against the biggest person who's been hounding his life - Osborn. Difference is, Banner doesn't have a Ben Parker in his life to keep that core heroic value, he has Brian Banner, and his mother who was also being abused by Banner and could not protect Bruce, hence why Devil Hulk is sort of pseudo father figure to Banner and why out of all the Hulk's, he's the "Daddy Devil," as Joe Fixit puts it.

That's why some of us are saying that Loki's power swap was not only lazy and forced, but it doesn't make sense nor add up with anything that we've seen in Hulk lore, at least power-wise.

Where are you getting that IH's initial strength can depend on rage? The only times rage was mentioned in context of IH it was said to be a booster after he already transformed.

Yeah, okay, I can agree that Parker wasn't channeling Immortal Hulk. I can agree with Loki being a forced plot device as well. But the story was clearly meant to have Spider-Man run around with Hulk's power for a while, and it was pretty blatantly meant to be a Savage Hulk, despite the power coming from Devil Hulk. In any case, I can concede the IH point. But I do think that the feat should be treated like Thing kayoying Savage Hulk, due to the fact that Parker's Hulk was clearly manifesting as Savage Hulk and the fact that he clearly had enough energy to repower Hulk present in his body after the transfer.

It's still not really him though. Peter's version of Savage Hulk isn't the same as Banner's. Bruce's savage hulk is the same 5-year-old who was getting beaten by his dad, hence the "strongest one there is" line. Bruce was never strong enough to stand up to brian and protect his mother, so his mind creates a monster than can get stronger with anger. That's not necessarily true for every Hulk.

Peter's inner child also isn't suppressed seeing as how Spider-man's far more comfortable being a goof-ball. The thing barely won last time, if the fans wanna take it as a win, let me lol - Pseudo/half wins is all they've had for the longest time.

And to answer the "Manifestation" topic, Devil Hulk even says that he was never really gone - that means none of the other Hulk's left bruce because they, by extension, ARE bruce. It's the same thing for Peter, he got infected by the Gamma Radiation, but his Hulk was different so Loki couldn't even reverse the spell because his version of the Hulk was a different animal entirely. It was the same for Amadeus Cho - they even had a dinner scene where they discuss this stuff back in Pak's "Totally-Awesome" run.

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It's still not really him though. Peter's version of Savage Hulk isn't the same as Banner's. Bruce's savage hulk is the same 5-year-old who was getting beaten by his dad, hence the "strongest one there is" line. Bruce was never strong enough to stand up to brian and protect his mother, so his mind creates a monster than can get stronger with anger. That's not necessarily true for every Hulk.

Peter's inner child also isn't suppressed seeing as how Spider-man's far more comfortable being a goof-ball.

Except all of this background stuff doesn't change the fact that Peter's Hulk was literally a mirror image of Savage Hulk, who talked like Savage Hulk, behaved like Savage Hulk and had all the energy of Hulk.

Oh and yeah, the "get stronger with anger" is pretty much universally true for every Hulk incarnation besides Professor (and maybe some very minor forms). Fixit, Smart Hulk, Doc Green, Green Scar and Immortal Hulk all get stronger with rage the same way Savage does.

The thing barely won last time, if the fans wanna take it as a win, let me lol - Pseudo/half wins is all they've had for the longest time.

Ah yes, that pseudo win where one character threw an hour worth of punches and barely KOed his opponent and himself got dropped in one. Laughable.

And to answer the "Manifestation" topic, Devil Hulk even says that he was never really gone - that means none of the other Hulk's left bruce because they, by extension, ARE bruce. It's the same thing for Peter, he got infected by the Gamma Radiation, but his Hulk was different so Loki couldn't even reverse the spell because his version of the Hulk was a different animal entirely. It was the same for Amadeus Cho - they even had a dinner scene where they discuss this stuff back in Pak's "Totally-Awesome" run.

That's a lot of assumptions from a single throwaway line. Loki wasn't "unable to reverse the spell", he didn't do it because that could make things worse, that was stated by him on-panel. Not to mention, the whole "his own Hulk" and "Hulks don't leave" thing is contradicted exactly by IH sucking Peter's Hulk out (wanna bet that Peter having his own Hulk is never going to be a plot point in the future?). And you're still stubbornly ignoring the fact that SpiderHulk's power was apparently wast enough to revitalize the real Hulk.

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medulaoblaganda

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@andromeda101 said:

@medulaoblaganda said:

How is that PIS though? Loki can drain him and he is done it before. Hulk said he wasn't gone entirely. He was in the dark screaming but no one could hear him again. Man i love this dialogue. Its so dope. This comic is actually amazing

Wasn't that before Hulk had a connection to TOBA and the Green Door? I mean, Loki himself said that Hulk was different.

I think the difference part was the fact that Hulk could now absorb gamma energy, that's their conclusion when they said different so they figured out Banner could absorb Hulk from Spiderman. Which is kinda funny when you think about it. Loki took away Hulk from Banner but couldn't do so from Spider-Man, but Bruce(who only had a little Hulk gamma in him) could take away Spidermans Hulk/gamma completely. The issue just made up it's own rules as it went along.

Also another minor PIS moment is Banner said Hulk is a battery that is constantly losing gamma and needs to absorb it all the time, that's not true. Hulk can absorb energy but he isn't losing his own gamma constantly and will run out of it if he doesn't absorb it from somewhere else, i have no idea where the writer came to that conclusion.

That's because Loki doesn't have knowledge on Hulk's gamma ray. He doesn't know Hulk is connected to one below all

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medulaoblaganda

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@underfire47 said:
@battle123axe said:

Immortal Hulk: Great Power was really good, if somewhat unnecessary. I’m interested in what everyone else thinks of it.

It was rather underwhelming, it had nothing to do with Immortal Hulk and the series horror theme, it could have literally been any Hulk. It also had a lot of inconsistencies with the Immortal Hulk series and in general, the plot device for Banner and Spiderman switching Hulks was hilariously contrived, i actually laughed out loud at that part. Loki comes out of nowhere while Hulk and Spiderman just happen to be next to one another and decides to just randomly remove Hulk from Banner because Hulk is all about energy according to him, which is untrue if we look at the Immortal Hulk series since gamma is not just energy but magic and divine, honestly it was a mess. This is definitely not how you do a one-shot. Fortunately Jeff Lemire will pick up the pace with the next one-shot since it will be horror based and it will follow the theme of Immortal Hulk series which is Hulk is tracking down gamma beings. Now that one i am looking forward to, Tom Taylor can go write a Spider-man comic if he wants to, because this was not a Hulk comic.

Yeah i'd be fine with a non-horror focused book utilizing Immortal Hulk, i'd actually like one occasionally, but yeah most of the problems you had with it was more or less what I meant with it being "unnecessary", as in it didn't really have any purpose, not even featwise, required a stupid plot device and held no meaning and wasn't even accurate other than to for some reason tie in IH with Friendly Neighborhood Spider man.

Although i do have to say it wasn't all bad. it was cool to see spidey and hulk interact, although the whole loki thing was incredibly incredibly stupid, and i think banner and hulk's voice at the beginning and end, especially the end, was fantastic.

Hulk doesn't have to be necessary horror especially a team up comic like this. Immortal Hulk has his soft side as well bro. This hulk in this one shot comic is actually immortal hulk because he said that he loves Banner that he will do whatever it takes to protect him and Banner his is family. Loki doesn't know jack shit about Gamma Radiation and he doesn't even know who the one below all is that is why he made a false statement about Hulk's gamma. Loki is not a genius.

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medulaoblaganda

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@andromeda101 said:

@medulaoblaganda said:

How is that PIS though? Loki can drain him and he is done it before. Hulk said he wasn't gone entirely. He was in the dark screaming but no one could hear him again. Man i love this dialogue. Its so dope. This comic is actually amazing

Wasn't that before Hulk had a connection to TOBA and the Green Door? I mean, Loki himself said that Hulk was different.

I think the difference part was the fact that Hulk could now absorb gamma energy, that's their conclusion when they said different so they figured out Banner could absorb Hulk from Spiderman. Which is kinda funny when you think about it. Loki took away Hulk from Banner but couldn't do so from Spider-Man, but Bruce(who only had a little Hulk gamma in him) could take away Spidermans Hulk/gamma completely. The issue just made up it's own rules as it went along.

Also another minor PIS moment is Banner said Hulk is a battery that is constantly losing gamma and needs to absorb it all the time, that's not true. Hulk can absorb energy but he isn't losing his own gamma constantly and will run out of it if he doesn't absorb it from somewhere else, i have no idea where the writer came to that conclusion.

I think Banner is the source of Hulk's power. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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#46  Edited By theacidskull

Except all of this background stuff doesn't change the fact that Peter's Hulk was literally a mirror image of Savage Hulk, who talked like Savage Hulk, behaved like Savage Hulk and had all the energy of Hulk.

Oh and yeah, the "get stronger with anger" is pretty much universally true for every Hulk incarnation besides Professor (and maybe some very minor forms). Fixit, Smart Hulk, Doc Green, Green Scar and Immortal Hulk all get stronger with rage the same way Savage does.

Not true, Red Hulk, Red-She Hulk, She-Hulk (well, until recently), A-bomb, Betty's Harpy, Sampson, Sasquatch, etc. All Gamma characters, yet none have the capacity to grow as strong as Hulk and some don't even grow stronger with anger even if their emotions influence their powers.

The thing barely won last time, if the fans wanna take it as a win, let me lol - Pseudo/half wins is all they've had for the longest time.

Ah yes, that pseudo win where one character threw an hour worth of punches and barely KOed his opponent and himself got dropped in one. Laughable.

Laugh all you want, the comic communicated who was stronger pretty clearly. Unless you're talking about the Spider-Hulk Vs Thing, then not sure what you're laughing at I agree that Thing whooped is ass, but it still doesn't change anything for the Bruce Banner's Hulk, who as I've said countless times, is not the same as Peter Parker's Hulk.

That's a lot of assumptions from a single throwaway line. Loki wasn't "unable to reverse the spell", he didn't do it because that could make things worse, that was stated by him on-panel. Not to mention, the whole "his own Hulk" and "Hulks don't leave" thing is contradicted exactly by IH sucking Peter's Hulk out (wanna bet that Peter having his own Hulk is never going to be a plot point in the future?). And you're still stubbornly ignoring the fact that SpiderHulk's power was apparently wast enough to revitalize the real Hulk.

I like how it's a throwaway line when I'm using it as an argument but somehow it makes a different argument for you, and no, it's not just one line. It's a bunch of lines in the issues coped with decades of written lore.

One, no one's shuffling the Hulk himself, it's gamma energy that's being shuffled around by LOKI. Immortal Hulk and Savage are purely products of the banner's mind. The Hulk that manifests (similar to savage or not, because let's face it's the easiest way to write Hulk) is based on Peter Parke's inner turmoil - if you don't know that, you might wanna start reading Hulk books because everything has long since been established. Two, cherry-picking small dumb things at an attempt to pick apart my argument when you can't even properly respond to what I'm saying won't get you anywhere. The bottom line was that Loki cannot reverse the process. Sure, it was because he might make things worse, which honestly could mean just about anything (again, love how for me it's a throwaway line but you can see the real deal) - the point is, he couldn't do it, and you know as much about the "how's" and "why's" as I do. What we do know, however, because literally a few pages later Banner states that the immortal Devil Version at least, is different than all the other Hulks. Three, Banner's been depowered before multiple times and there's always a residual Hulk within him than can be awoken, whether it's Devil Hulk, Savage, Joe Fixit, Professor or even Devil Hulk, who's been locked away in Banner's mind for a very long time (also mentioned in Immortal Hulk too). In fact, Bill Mantlo established long ago that what we call Savage Hulk was literally born when Bruce was a kid - being abused by brian banner.

Four, dude, if SpiderHulk's powers can't fully revitalize the real Hulk, what does that tell you? Pick your brain for a bit, you'll get there. Five, it doesn't have to be a future plot point for Peter or anyone because he's not the Hulk, because it's been an established part of Hulk lore for a while, most recently revised by Amadeus and Hulk in Greg Pak's totally awesome run. It's also part of Peter David's merged story, and it all began with Bill Mantlo's crossroads series. And Six, Banner flat out states that "Spider-man's Hulk" will remember Ben Grimm beating him up. Not Savage Hulk, Spider-man's Hulk. And none of this even scratches the PIS that had to take place in order to make this contrived story work for a touching ending.

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Underfire47

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#47  Edited By Underfire47

@strawberrypimp: Ah yes, that pseudo win where one character threw an hour worth of punches and barely KOed his opponent and himself got dropped in one. Laughable.

Tora... i really try to find common ground but you keep pushing the nonsense meter here. Hulk could have ended the fight early on, he could have drowned Thing, threw him into space instead of into the mountain, broken his neck, broken his arms making him useless, hell the fact that Thing tanked ALL those punches without being crippled or KO'd is questionable to say the least. He has been KO'd or beaten by less multiple times(including from Hulk himself) and Immortal Hulk has been going around breaking skulls and faces or tearing to pieces pretty much everyone he has fought. Just enjoy the fact that Thing got the KO in the end, stop pushing dumb crap, this is why i can't go into a Thing thread today without seeing half a dozen comments saying Thing is the new TOAA.

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StrawberryPimp

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@strawberrypimp: Ah yes, that pseudo win where one character threw an hour worth of punches and barely KOed his opponent and himself got dropped in one. Laughable.

Tora... i really try to find common ground but you keep pushing the nonsense meter here. Hulk could have ended the fight early on, he could have drowned Thing, threw him into space instead of into the mountain, broken his neck, broken his arms making him useless, hell the fact that Thing tanked ALL those punches without being crippled or KO'd is questionable to say the least. He has been KO'd or beaten by less multiple times(including from Hulk himself) and Immortal Hulk has been going around breaking skulls and faces or tearing to pieces pretty much everyone he has fought. Just enjoy the fact that Thing got the KO in the end, stop pushing dumb crap, this is why i can't go into a Thing thread today without seeing half a dozen comments saying Thing is the new TOAA.

If Acid's so willing to reach and downplay in order to make the feat look insignificant or/and unimpressive, then it only makes sense I'm going to be reaching and downplaying just as hard, don't you think? Also, notice that I wasn't the one who brought up the IH fight and looked like an ass doing that, it was Acid.

Don't blame me for the ToAA comments tho, blame dumbfucks who were pushing this BS way before the IH fight even happened. I'm more than content ignoring the fact that Thing KOed Immortal Hulk altogether, there are dozens of other feats I can use besides that.

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Underfire47

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@underfire47 said:

@strawberrypimp: Ah yes, that pseudo win where one character threw an hour worth of punches and barely KOed his opponent and himself got dropped in one. Laughable.

Tora... i really try to find common ground but you keep pushing the nonsense meter here. Hulk could have ended the fight early on, he could have drowned Thing, threw him into space instead of into the mountain, broken his neck, broken his arms making him useless, hell the fact that Thing tanked ALL those punches without being crippled or KO'd is questionable to say the least. He has been KO'd or beaten by less multiple times(including from Hulk himself) and Immortal Hulk has been going around breaking skulls and faces or tearing to pieces pretty much everyone he has fought. Just enjoy the fact that Thing got the KO in the end, stop pushing dumb crap, this is why i can't go into a Thing thread today without seeing half a dozen comments saying Thing is the new TOAA.

If Acid's so willing to reach and downplay in order to make the feat look insignificant or/and unimpressive, then it only makes sense I'm going to be reaching and downplaying just as hard, don't you think? Also, notice that I wasn't the one who brought up the IH fight and looked like an ass doing that, it was Acid.

Don't blame me for the ToAA comments tho, blame dumbfucks who were pushing this BS way before the IH fight even happened. I'm more than content ignoring the fact that Thing KOed Immortal Hulk altogether, there are dozens of other feats I can use besides that.

Replying to hyperbolic or downplaying comments with more hyperbolic or downplaying comments isn't gonna help your case. If you think Acid is downplaying Things role, than reply with a balanced and more logical reply it will make him look like a clown and you like the better one in the exchange.

It's literally what i do 90% of the time on this forum when i debate with Superman or some other wankers that bring up outliers, i don't go well Hulk has universal feats too so lets debate universal feats for either... I say no that's dumb and PIS, almost every high tier has them and would be dumb and PIS if i brought them as serious feats for my side as well and remind them to either tone it down and debate without outliers or don't debate at all, to which they end up almost always doubling down and debating with even more outliers and than no one takes them seriously and i just won the exchange, pretty easy. It's the reason why i haven't turned Hulk into a meme despite me being a very clear Hulk fanboy that talks about Hulk 99% of the time on this forum for the last half a decade.

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Underfire47

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#50  Edited By Underfire47

@theacidskull: The thing barely won last time, if the fans wanna take it as a win, let me lol - Pseudo/half wins is all they've had for the longest time.

This statement isn't even that bad, Thing barely won last time = true. Pseudo/half win = not really true. It was a win for Thing, that's it. Yes it wasn't the kind of win where you beat your opponent the entire time and finally KO them or the kind of win where the 2 people are equal and either ended up winning in the end, it was more of a David and Goliath story, Hulk was dominating the fight until Thing pulled a desperate move that sacrificed his arm and won. This is fine, if we are to discount this than Hulk beating Onslaught would also count as a pseudo/half win because he pulled out a last desperate move that even resulted with him and Banner physically splitting from one another.

Either way even in Dan Slotts own comic the guy that considers Thing his second favorite character in existence he made sure to show who was more powerful than the 2 and made sure that the only way for Thing to win is for him to find himself in a desperate situation(saving a loved one) and needing to sacrifice a limb to win against a more powerful opponent, if this upsets you @strawberrypimp than you should have more of a problem with Slott than with Acid over here and @theacidskull you also need to come to terms that Thing won this round and it's fine, there is going to be a second round anyway so once that happens we will see how the fight plays out and then every fight they have in the future of which there will be many. It's not impossible for Thing to win against Hulk, same is as it shouldn't be impossible for Hulk to win against a more powerful opponent. If Hulk knocked out Surfer tomorrow(someone i consider above Hulk) i wouldn't want others to call it a pseudo/half win, they already did this many times when Hulk won over Thor so it's nice to see Karma coming back and biting them in the ass considering Hulk has been dominating Thor for the last decade or so in almost every encounter, so lets not let Karma bite us in the ass with Hulk and Thing, just let it go.

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