The Immortal Hulk - 2019

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#201 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

Pages like the one above are why Bennett was the perfect choice as artist on Immortal Hulk. His style captures the horror and gruesome nature of this Hulk and Ewing's stories.

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#202 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio
@lvenger said:

One thing I didn't get about Avengers No Road Home #1 was Voyager saying that Hercules was the only one who might have the strength to defeat the Hulk when she saw him get his ass beat along with Jane Thor when they last fought Immortal/Devil Hulk. Ewing probably didn't write that line of narration that's for sure.

Probably a throwaway line. And the key word there definitely being "might."

You're probably right, it just stuck out to me as weird given that the same creative team wrote Hulk overpowering Herc and Jane at the same time.

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#203 Posted by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: you could chalk it up to here holding back, but even then it’s pretty suspect because he hurt his hand just punching him.

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#204 Edited by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: you could chalk it up to here holding back, but even then it’s pretty suspect because he hurt his hand just punching him.

There was definitely no holding back.

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I don't think we should read into words to literally. Banner in WWH said that Herc was one of the only people there to stop the Hulk, does not mean that in reality he would have, definitely not given how Pak wrote and he definitely isn't stopping Immortal Hulk when he and Jane couldn't hold him exerting all their strength. It's just writers giving some respect to Hercs strength, this No Road Home event is actually centered around him after all.

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#205 Edited by theacidskull (22012 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:
@theacidskull said:
@lvenger said:

One thing I didn't get about Avengers No Road Home #1 was Voyager saying that Hercules was the only one who might have the strength to defeat the Hulk when she saw him get his ass beat along with Jane Thor when they last fought Immortal/Devil Hulk. Ewing probably didn't write that line of narration that's for sure.

Probably a throwaway line. And the key word there definitely being "might."

You're probably right, it just stuck out to me as weird given that the same creative team wrote Hulk overpowering Herc and Jane at the same time.

Recently, I've learned to take quotes like that with a grain of salt. To me, it roughly translates to "if Hulk decides to be an issue it won't hurt to have Hercules around." Unless it's a feat, I usually don't take it all that seriously.

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#206 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio
@lvenger said:
@theacidskull said:
@lvenger said:

One thing I didn't get about Avengers No Road Home #1 was Voyager saying that Hercules was the only one who might have the strength to defeat the Hulk when she saw him get his ass beat along with Jane Thor when they last fought Immortal/Devil Hulk. Ewing probably didn't write that line of narration that's for sure.

Probably a throwaway line. And the key word there definitely being "might."

You're probably right, it just stuck out to me as weird given that the same creative team wrote Hulk overpowering Herc and Jane at the same time.

Recently, I've learned to take quotes like that with a grain of salt. To me, it roughly translates to "if Hulk decides to be an issue it won't hurt to have Hercules around." Unless it's a feat, I usually don't take it all that seriously.

Yeah that's a wise policy when reading comics lol. Too often writers make statements which aren't backed up by what they or other writers do.

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#207 Posted by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag: using all of their strength to hold him in place doesn’t mean he wasn’t holding back. You could easily try holding someone in place to avoid having to bust their face open. I’m not saying that if Herc hadnt been holding back that it would have changed anything, but Herc tends to hold back, especially against those he considers friends and allies.

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#208 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag: using all of their strength to hold him in place doesn’t mean he wasn’t holding back. You could easily try holding someone in place to avoid having to bust their face open. I’m not saying that if Herc hadnt been holding back that it would have changed anything, but Herc tends to hold back, especially against those he considers friends and allies.

What? How does he use all of his strength but than also holds back his strength? Dude...

Also it's pretty evident they were not holding back, Hulk reaching the last Pyramoid was suppose to mean ALL LIFE ON EARTH ENDS, so i very much doubt he was holding back, that and the fact that he hit Hulk so hard he hurt his own hand. All heroes hold back to some extent for the most part, but that doesn't really change anything here.

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#209 Posted by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag: you’re clearly not understanding me. Using all of your strength to hold someone back is much different than going after someone with the intent of killing them or stopping them at any cost.

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#210 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@phillip33: They were intent on stopping him at all cost, they just couldn't. Again not stopping him meant the literal end of the world and Herc hurting his hand punching him is evidence enough that he didn't really hold back that punch.

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#211 Edited by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag: no that’s not evidence of that. I could punch a wall at half strength and borderline break my hand. Had Herc said something along the lines of, “ ill kill you if I have to,” then you’d have a point, but he didn’t. Sure he showed signs of extreme exertion, but there nothing to suggest that herc was not holding anything back with his punches, especially when he has a history of doing so. Again, I’m not saying that herc not holding back would have changed about the outcome

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#212 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2360 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenscar1990: I wonder why Hulk is fighting Samson. His eyes looks somehow. Do you have any speculation on what is wrong with the hulk? lol

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#213 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag: no that’s not evidence of that. I could punch a wall at half strength and borderline break my hand. Had Herc said something along the lines of, “ ill kill you if I have to,” then you’d have a point, but he didn’t. Sure he showed signs of extreme exertion, but there nothing to suggest that herc was not holding anything back with his punches, especially when he has a history of doing so. Again, I’m not saying that herc not holding back would have changed about the outcome

This is getting nowhere, whether Herc held back or not(he clearly didn't since the whole world was at stake), him hurting his hand punching Hulk means nothing would have changed the outcome either way, he hurts himself more trying to hurt the Hulk, than vice versa.

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#214 Edited by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio
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#215 Posted by coolcat4 (838 posts) - - Show Bio

@phillip33: It could also be from the fact that the hulk when he overpowers them is even angrier than normal immortal hulk. He is shown to have the glowing eyes which is an indication of his rage. But i still think immortal hulk is still solidly stronger.

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#216 Posted by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio

@coolcat4: I agree that he’s certainly stronger. I wasn’t arguing otherwise.

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#217 Posted by Slobbyboboli (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: @zillag: @phillip33:

That script doesn't change what happened on panel though, jane and herc were never trying to hold hulk in place it said they were trying to strike him at the same time.

I also dont see how they got their ass beat cuz hulk basically fleed the fight, moreover when you say he kicked herc and janes ass are you saying he knocked them out or what exactly? Cuz on panel they had zero damage on them.

How does having stars drawn around your hand mean you hurt your hand? If hercs hand got hurt they would have shown that by showing a crack or herc saying ow. The script itself literally even confirmed those stars had nothing to do with herc getting hurt at all...the stars were meant to represent a knockout punch from a boxer.

Honestly i think people are going way too overboard making things up and forming their own conclusions when the comic itself made it clear what was going on. Their fight was never concluded so herc having the strength to stop him doesnt conflict with their fight.

Plus hulk had absorbed red hulk prior to that fight. Do we know how much gamma hulk has in him right now? Does he still have sasquatchs and red hulks gamma in him in no road home or is it just his own original green scars gamma

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#218 Posted by Slobbyboboli (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@phillip33: also another thing, hercs striking power was shown above wwhs when they fought, if you note herc actually managed to knock wwh out for a panel with a punch, but wwh only put him on a knee with his punch. Plus the writer who had him lift the heavens iirc claimed he could lift a galaxy...i dont see why people are complaining as its still a great durability showing for immortal hulk when you look at how he handled the punch compared to world war hulk. Despite his shitty durability showings hercs striking power is decently impressive.

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#219 Posted by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio

@slobbyboboli: nah hulk was never ko’d When herc hit him in wwh

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#220 Posted by Slobbyboboli (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@phillip33: ? I thought he was cuz he got back up a couple panels later and was rubbing the back of his head in pain. I took the feat as him getting knocked out but regenerating it really quickly cuz honestly wwh got bloodied and hurt by everyone he fought even th ing and beast. If herc didnt ko him there itd mean thing and beast hit hulk harder than herc did which doesnt make sense really. Also hercs hit seemed to hurt hulk more than what hulk did to herc with one punch. Pak gave him the lifting heavens feat too which tells me pak rated herc comparable to hulk strength wise

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#221 Edited by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio

@slobbyboboli: not really. That artist just drew with a lot more blood being drawn from everyone than the artist that portrayed herc and Thor’s scuffle. I think he got up like the next panel and yeah he was rubbing the back of his head, but he wasn’t ko’d at all. Why would it make any sense that herc not KOing hulk in that instance is proof of him not hitting hulk as hard as thong or beast. Neither thing nor beast KO’d hulk either

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#222 Posted by Slobbyboboli (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@phillip33: no it was the same artist.

Beast and thing both drew blood from wwh. Herc did not. If herc didnt ko hulk either then that would just mean thing and beast hit hulk harder than herc did... which doesnt make much sense unless herc is just that weak.

His eyes being closed and rubbing the head to me implies he got koed but just healed from it quickly enough to get back up a panel later. Thats the point of having a healing factor, a normal guy getting knocked out could be unconscious for minutes, hours, so on, but guys like hulk and wolverine could heal from a knockout in a couple panels. Hes also been knocked out by thanos before and still healed from it pretty quick iirc

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#223 Posted by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio

@slobbyboboli: no that is objectively wrong. None of the fights you are referring to were drawn by the same artist. In fact, each was drawn by a different artist. You are just flat out wrong here. The artist who drew the mainline world war hulk story had hulk bleeding absurdly more than in any of the tie ins. Thing was in the mainline story, herc and beast were in tie ins, and herc clearly did more damage to hulk than beast did, regardless of the blood he drew from hulk.

That implies nothing. Characters like hulk and wolverine who have extremely potent healing factors have been KO’d for an extended period of time numerous times before, and generally when hulk is KO’d he reverts back to banner. Hulk got up pretty much instantaneously from herc’s hit. He was not KO’d, you can interpret that scene however you’d like, but it’s clear he wasn’t KO’d characters get knocked down all the time in comics, and generally when they get back up within a page, it means they weren’t really knocked out, just stunned. Hulk clearly did more damage to herc than herc did to him with each of their respective punches. Hulk didn’t have any visible damage from hercs punch, herc was swollen from one of hulk’s

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#224 Posted by Slobbyboboli (20 posts) - - Show Bio

@phillip33: so herc did "more" damage than beast yet by your own admission herc didnt bleed him didnt bruise him nor ko him? Right so how did herc damage hulk more than beast then?

Hulk has an instantaneous healing factor. When he reverts to banner thats when he goes into a coma and gets severely knocked out.

Except hulk didnt just get up in a page or get knocked down, characters who just get knocked down dont close their eyes and get up rubbing their head. Your underrating/ignoring hulks healing factor, wwh had some of the worst durability showings for hulk cuz pak and the artists lowered his durability and amped his healing factor to emphasize it.

Herc had no visible damage after one punch it was after 4 punches he had a swollen face. Herc knocked him out there is nothing you can do to deny this, personal interpretation doesnt count and even the script said herc gained the upper hand on him there. And it makes immortal hulks feat all the more impressive since he was able to shrug off a punch capable of koing wwh.

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#225 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@slobbyboboli: One of these days you are gonna change a persons mind on this site WITB, just keep trying. I believe in you.

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#226 Edited by phillip33 (4261 posts) - - Show Bio

@slobbyboboli: firstly, I’d like to see where beast draws blood from hulk, because I don’t even remember that happening in the entire wwh vs x men fight. And every artist depicts character damage differently. Hercules hit hulk so hard that hulk went top, down, smashed his head on the concrete, and was still a bit dazed as he rubbed his head getting up. Hulk wasn’t knocked down once against the entire base x-men team iirc, not even when colossus slugged him. The best they could do to him was have kitty phase him into the ground, which still didn’t stop him.

Yes he has an instantaneous healing factor, as does wolverine. Those haven’t helped them in the times when they were actually legitimately knocked out.

Except that’s exactly what happened. Like, literally. And yes, characters who get knocked down do that all the time. Hell I could give you tons of real life scenarios where someone gets knocked down, bangs they’re head, and get up still rubbing it. I’m not underrating any thing. Healing factors have never really been shown to effect knock out durability, if anything you’re severely underrating Hulk’s durability. He didn’t need to regenerate from the blow herc dealt him. The only kind of durability they lowered for hulk was his piercing durability. He wasn’t KO’d once the entire story arc iirc.

Now you’re just talking nonsense. The first hit hulk gave herc after hercs hit, herc had a black eye and a swollen lip. And that was just a casual backfist. My personal interpretation doesn’t have any bearing on this. Yeah, herc Gaines a momentary upper hand, but nowhere is it stated that herc actually knocked him out. Knocked out characters don’t get right back up in the very next panel. And a momentary upper hand does not equal a victory. You are willingly misinterpreting the fight if you think hulk was KO’d in this instance.

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#227 Posted by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

What's with all this idiocy and delusion? Herc wasn't holding back on either occasions, in World War Hulk & No Surrender. Hell, Hulk bloodied and nearly killed Herc with just a few blows in WWH, which Herc admitted it on panel and throughout that entire event it was Hulk who was pulling the punches and holding back. Further, in the script itself, Jane-Thor & Herc were determined to stop the Hulk, but even their combined might was unable to do so.

That line in No Road Home was just Voyager thinking that, if anyone who can last more than a second with the Hulk, it'd be Herc. Not that he would be able to stop him at all. In short, Herc isn't gonna stop the Hulk, especially not one on par with the Immortal Hulk or WWH.

Anyway, here's a new image from Joe Bennett.

No Caption Provided

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#228 Edited by IAmTheLaw (832 posts) - - Show Bio

It's the same guy that always trolls here. Have we not learned yet?

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#229 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4058 posts) - - Show Bio

@phillip33: I would also like to add another thing - hulk was hit with a near full force double handed hit from Herc on the face but when he got back after falling down, he was seen holding the side of his neck.... An area where he wasn't hit by herc but the road....

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#230 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4058 posts) - - Show Bio

@coolcat4: I think the glowing eyes were artistic choice. Nothing really indicates he was angrier. Hulk one-shotting Thor in IM hulk is still a better feat.

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#231 Posted by Thedailybagel (12895 posts) - - Show Bio

The writing was alright for Hulkverines, still feels like a weapon h book. Pak definitely gave hulk his respect though.

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#232 Edited by Supermanthor (20082 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedailybagel: What's your opinion on the art ? I feel like it's good but not on IH book level

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#233 Posted by Supermanthor (20082 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyway Hulkverine is a good read imo

for now

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#234 Posted by Thedailybagel (12895 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: it’s alright, it’s similar to weapon h which is decent I guess. Not even remotely comparable to Immortal Hulks art.

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#235 Posted by Supermanthor (20082 posts) - - Show Bio
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#236 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4586 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn Clay is strong enough to go toe to toe with IH that’s impressive considering all the characters Hulk has man handled.

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#237 Posted by Supermanthor (20082 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: let's see how wolvie fares against him

But looking at today's issue I am guessing Logan can't hurt him too much

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#238 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4586 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: It’ll probably be a similar kinda fight as the Hulk one but just with tinier characters and instead of the punches it’ll be the slashing.

The first issue was a good start. Paks writing style fits these characters very much and he seems to be enjoying himself. Also more Leader is always great, just hope the final issue where Bruce and Logan turn into Hulkverines as well is handled well.

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#239 Posted by Supermanthor (20082 posts) - - Show Bio
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#240 Edited by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't like the Hulkverines issue as what i guessed would happen, did happen. Pak hasn't actually read Immortal Hulk at all, he did no research on the character.

First off Banner going after Clay telling him he needs to stop him because people tend to die around Clay is the most hypocritical thing i have ever seen. Considering people die much MORE around Banner, especially with Immortal Hulk and i am not just talking about bad people but innocent ones. It felt as if Pak hadn't picked up a single issue of IH.

Secondly you could tell this was supposed to be a Weapon-H story and not a Hulkverine one, Clay is the clear protagonist here and the only reason this is turned into a mini-series is because the main book got canceled so they wanted to shill this out to complete Weapon-H story and have that character basically die off into obscurity.

Thirdly and this is minor but still shows the lack of research, the fight that was tapped and broadcast on TV was completely out of order, it made no sense, Thor was knocked out, Ghost Rider was seemingly the last one to go, Ironman was out yet his Hulkbuster was intact, even though it exploded in IH pretty much immediately.

Other than that i thought Pak handled the fight OK, nothing out of the ordinary Hulk was about to finish off Clay quickly if it wasn't for Leaders meddling and i think Hulk getting only superficial cuts from Clays claws was a nice touch. But i hate it whenever some plot device is introduced that weakens the characters. That cheapens the whole thing so much. Just have 2 characters fight each other at their best, don't weaken them back and fort it makes their fight completely pointless and unusable feat wise.

The dumbest moment though has to go to probably Leader killing a guy with a sheet of paper by making him sleep and break his neck....

You could really tell Pak didn't really care, his writing has significantly decreased ever since Plant Hulk. And the 3rd issue is gonna be garbage i can already tell, the premise feels like it was made up by a 12 year old.

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#241 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn Clay is strong enough to go toe to toe with IH that’s impressive considering all the characters Hulk has man handled.

I always thought if there was one character who could give IH a proper fight it would be Clay, he has almost Hulk levels of strength, adamantium skeleton and claws, genetic material from characters like Hulk, Wolverine, Lady Deathstrike, Warpath, Domino, Sabertooth, giving him insane healing abilities as well as some other possible powers like maybe Dominos luck ability.

He really is the best candidate to go toe to toe with the Hulk, but then Pak cheapened the whole thing by introducing the virus that weakened first Clay then Hulk, i hate whenever that happens, you can never really judge the fight properly because you have no idea how much it weakened them. I love clean fights between characters at their best, this just feels unsatisfying to me.

My hopes that Pak did proper on IH, went down the drain and now i can't even expect some nice proper action either, meh.

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#242 Posted by Thedailybagel (12895 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag: Banner wasn’t actually saying any of that, Clay was hearing things which is why Banner was so confused, bare in mind that Leader orchestrated this whole thing to kill Banner.

The fight from IM 7 was showing us what happened prior to GR’s car getting thrown, the radio broadcast is similar to the one at the start of the avengers fight.

Also Pak clearly establishes that Clay didn’t really have a shot at Bruce which I liked as well, Banner could have ended the fight when he wanted to.

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#243 Posted by Thedailybagel (12895 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: They only exchanged punches for a page or two before Banner stopped Clays hand instantly and went for the drain. My interpretation of that fight was that Hulk was superior to Clay and the dialogue of the other characters supported that.

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#244 Edited by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedailybagel said:

@zillag: Banner wasn’t actually saying any of that, Clay was hearing things which is why Banner was so confused, bare in mind that Leader orchestrated this whole thing to kill Banner.

The fight from IM 7 was showing us what happened prior to GR’s car getting thrown, the radio broadcast is similar to the one at the start of the avengers fight.

Also Pak clearly establishes that Clay didn’t really have a shot at Bruce which I liked as well, Banner could have ended the fight when he wanted to.

What do you mean? He literally told him wherever you go people die and i want to stop you.

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Clay wasn't hearing anything weird, he was just sneezing which confused Banner. Also the plan was very stupid because it hinged entirely on the fact that Banner would try to absorb Clay's gamma which there was no guarantee he would do it.

That doesn't make sense since BP suit is all torn up, even though in IH it was fine when he jumped on Hulk, Thor was knocked out which never happened or was any hint of it happening beforehand.

Not really, if anything i'd argue that Clay did better against Hulk than vice versa, minus the whole drain thing which is a silly plot device as well. A weakened Clay took hit from Hulk and even slashed him and sent him flying himself, while a weakened Hulk got taken out by 1 hit from Clay and couldn't even draw blood from him, while Clay could from him(with just punches btw, not claws). Nah the fight was clearly in Clays favor minus the whole "gamma draining" plot device. Ironically i have the least problem with the fight itself, just the dumb virus weakening them which just felt cheap. Oh Leader invented this magic plot device that can weaken Hulk, somehow gave it Clay and somehow knew Hulk would take it from him, then he knew the virus would work, so many what ifs, it blows my mind.

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#245 Posted by Thedailybagel (12895 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag: I’ll reply when I’m home, I think you’re trying to find things wrong with the issue though dude.

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#246 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedailybagel: I am not actively trying to find anything wrong with it, it's just that as i read it everything just seemed so wrong. This isn't even a Hulkverines comic as in Hulk, Weapon-H and Logan, it's Weapon-H guest starring Hulk and Logan with some shady writing at best.

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#247 Posted by Supermanthor (20082 posts) - - Show Bio

@zillag: when i looked at solitics i understand at first glance that it will goona focus weapon h mainly

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#248 Posted by PlatinumThorns (68 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, it was pretty alright. The pacing was way too fast and Hulk somehow being able to be infected by a virus of any kind when he can regenerate from being chopped up is stupid.

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#249 Posted by PlatinumThorns (68 posts) - - Show Bio

Immortal Hulk May 2019 Solicitations

IMMORTAL HULK #17

AL EWING (W) • JOE BENNETT (A) • Cover by ALEX ROSS

MARVEL BATTLE LINES VARIANT COVER BY HEYJIN IM

• Bruce Banner is trapped inside Shadow Base Site A —

powerless and hunted by their top assassin.

• He can’t run forever. He can’t change form. He can’t survive...without THE IMMORTAL HULK.

• But not the one you think.

IMMORTAL HULK #18

AL EWING (W) • JOE BENNETT (A) • Cover by ALEX ROSS

MARVEL BATTLE LINES VARIANT COVER BY JONGJU KIM

• Shadow Base has declared total war on Bruce Banner — and one by one, death is touching everyone he ever knew...

• ...except for one. The one monster who never dies — who returns, again and again, to hate and destroy.

• But it’s not the IMMORTAL HULK.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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#250 Posted by coolcat4 (838 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Ya that could be it, but we have seen his eyes change in the issues. And i agree that is one of the best striking feats i have seen.

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