Potential Spoilers for Avengers: Endgame and the Hulk's Role

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#1 Posted by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

If you do not wish to view potential spoilers of the film, do not click on the link. However, if you do, then have at it.

https://bgr.com/2019/04/05/avengers-endgame-leaks-early-screening-reveals-the-action-and-finale/

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#2 Posted by Fifthchild (734 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah none of this is real - not even for an alternate cut of the film.

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#3 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

The only thing that's real is that they destroyed Hulks character.

Not to talk bad about PAD, but Professor Hulk couldn't have been a more boring decision for a movie Hulk.

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#4 Posted by Fifthchild (734 posts) - - Show Bio

Well it wasnt really the Merged/Professor Hulk, it was essentially the Banner Hulk. Theres no real change in personality from Banner. When he gets separated from his body we see Banner/Ruffalo is his astral form.

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#5 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild Which actually makes it even worse. There has been a good video on what makes the Hulk/Banner character so unique and dynamic.

Loading Video...

They've basically destroyed this now and seeing as there are a lot of rumors about a She-Hulk TV series where Banner passes the torch to Jen and leaves the MCU, we have probably lost the Hulks character forever.

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#6 Edited by IAmTheLaw (856 posts) - - Show Bio

Things I liked, things I didn't like.

Hulk/Banner had a lot of good happening. The fact that he had to wear the gauntlet to undo the snap because he's the only one that would survive.

He also seemed to be in control in conversations with Thor. "Get your arm off me" The Thor abides.

Things I didn't like

Seriously, no epic Hulk smashing scenes. Two movies in a row?! His arm didn't heal? Dude should have got to fight Thanos, or at least lift up the damn building. How is GIANT MAN going to be the one that gets them outta that mess? Perfect opportunity to showcase Hulks strength. I'm sad that the last two Avengers movies had almost no Hulk smash.

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#7 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamthelaw: But Hulk has low key the strongest feat in Endgame though. Hulk already had shined in his 2 avenger movies and in Ragnarok, so i think the russo deliberately wanted the other avengers to shine. That's just what i think. The infinity gauntlet he wield is planet level, right? Hulk lifted the avengers HQ with 1 hand.

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#8 Edited by IAmTheLaw (856 posts) - - Show Bio

@medulaoblaganda said:

@iamthelaw: But Hulk has low key the strongest feat in Endgame though. Hulk already had shined in his 2 avenger movies and in Ragnarok, so i think the russo deliberately wanted the other avengers to shine. That's just what i think. The infinity gauntlet he wield is planet level, right? Hulk lifted the avengers HQ with 1 hand.

That part with the gauntlet was awesome but shouldn't they have had his healing factor kick in? I mean, that's an easy way to show Hulk in a more positive light to Thanos… And more of my gripe is that Hulk was failing to hold up the HQ, and then Ant Man bust through it like nothing. Ant Man somehow kills Cull Obsidian and knocks down a space whale?! Hulk doesn't even do any fighting at all.

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#9 Edited by KingLouie (3567 posts) - - Show Bio

That's right I forgot Normal sized man killed Cull. So lame.

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#10 Posted by IAmTheLaw (856 posts) - - Show Bio

That's right I forgot Normal sized man killed Cull. So lame.

After Cull looked to have the upper hand on Iron Man. That's crazy... or Cull has terrible durability. Which seems more and more possible.

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#11 Edited by bonifidehustla (269 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamthelaw: But Hulk has low key the strongest feat in Endgame though. Hulk already had shined in his 2 avenger movies and in Ragnarok, so i think the russo deliberately wanted the other avengers to shine. That's just what i think. The infinity gauntlet he wield is planet level, right? Hulk lifted the avengers HQ with 1 hand.

What other Avengers to shine. Some of them got multiple solo movies dedicated to them. Hawkeye, Widow, and Hulk should have the most screen time since they dont have solo movies. In Avengers 2 he got knocked out by hulkbuster. Then again this is the MCU overpower humans and depower people with powers except captain marvel.

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#12 Edited by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

@bonifidehustla: I agree. Why do i feel the russo brothers don't care about Hulk ? lol

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#13 Posted by Hulk_monger (9 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought this movie was a total disservice to Hulk and anybody who likes Hulk. It was also profoundly bad storytelling to resolve he Hulk vs banner conflict off-screen. They spent two movies (Ragnarok and Infinity War) setting it up, then "fix" it between Infinity War and End Game? GTFO.

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#14 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

Incase you guys don't know, the incarnation we all saw in endgame is Banner controlled Hulk. That incarnation is the weakest Hulk incarnation.

Bill Mantlo wrote a version of the Hulk who has since been named the "Banner Hulk." The era of the Banner Hulk was one in which Bruce Banner not only controlled his signature transformation, but kept control of the Hulk's body when he changed. The shift brought much needed stability to his life: He was given a presidential pardon for the Hulk's rampages, and for the first time in years, he was asked to rejoin the Avengers. Eventually, of course, things went sideways and the savage Hulk returned.

Banner had to suppress the Hulk entirely and take complete control. If that happens, he could find himself with a new problem. The Banner Hulk of the comics eventually realized that his emotional rigidity didn't allow him to express the kind of rage of which the childlike Hulk was capable. Without that savagery, Banner Hulk couldn't handle enemies like Abomination, whose strength rivaled the Hulk's. So, I'm guessing this is the Hulk Russo brothers used.

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#15 Posted by coolcat4 (847 posts) - - Show Bio

I was pretty upset with what they did with the hulk. They took away the dynamic of his character, and he didn't even fight anyone. I really thought there would be an awesome hulk moment to make up for last movie but no.

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#16 Posted by Hulk_monger (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@coolcat4 said:

I was pretty upset with what they did with the hulk. They took away the dynamic of his character, and he didn't even fight anyone. I really thought there would be an awesome hulk moment to make up for last movie but no.

it legitimately ruined the movie for me.

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#17 Posted by coolcat4 (847 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulk_monger: Ya it would have been my favorite mcu movie if they didn't do that to hulk and if they didn't make Thor fat and worse.

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#18 Posted by bonifidehustla (269 posts) - - Show Bio

@bonifidehustla: I agree. Why do i feel the russo brothers don't care about Hulk ? lol

The history of them and Hulk. They skipped him in Civil war made some excuse he's to strong. Then when they had a chance to use him let him be fodder for Thanos. Then in End Game oh lets make sure he doesnt fight him at all. They always making excuses when it comes to Hulk. He doesn't have to beat Thanos but we want to see good action from him not this BS they doing. I wouldn't be surprise they drop him soon and make it only She-Hulk but not the one we grew up with but that manly masculine version.

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#19 Posted by Hulk_monger (9 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man and Cap got epic send-offs. Hulk got a shopping spree at J Crew.

I don't understand how you build that banner vs Hulk conflict for two movies and then fix it off-screen. Even with all that, if they'd just let him participate in the final battle in some meaningful way and given him a battle feat, I probably would have been satisfied. But they had him sit it out completely, outside of the moment we see him charge into battle.

We basically got two whole Avengers movies where Hulk didn't fight at all, outside of getting punked by Thanos in the first five minutes of IW.

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#20 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

@bonifidehustla: They're definitely dropping Hulk soon. I can see that. Marvel is making a Hulk/she hulk TV show. Hulk will only show up in some few episodes and leave the rest to she hulk. After the show, what happens to Hulk? we don't know. Its sad

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#21 Posted by RabumAlal (5310 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk was one of the highlights of the movie, it’s not all about feats. He had plenty of screentime, was integral to the plot.

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#22 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

@rabumalal: I couldn't care less about the MCU feats, there was no Hulk in the movie. It was Banner in Hulks body, they completely killed off the Hulk/Banner dynamic that makes the character great in the first place.

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#23 Posted by bonifidehustla (269 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk was one of the highlights of the movie, it’s not all about feats. He had plenty of screentime, was integral to the plot.

I bet you wouldn't say this vile statement if all the Avengers sat around and talked the whole movie and no action.

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#24 Posted by Hulk_monger (9 posts) - - Show Bio

Aside from the fact Hulk didn't do anything action oriented (and in fact mocked the idea of smashing), I just think it was bad storytelling to develop the Banner vs Hulk conflict over the course of two movies and then fully resolve it off-screen.

Hulk had no internal conflict whatsoever in End Game. He was simply reacting to events, and not in a terribly interesting way, in my opinion.

The moment he put the gauntlet on would have had way more stakes if the Banner vs Hulk conflict hadn't be so thoroughly and completely resolved. Had there been a whiff of Banner's struggle leading up to that point, we at least might have questioned who would take control of the gauntlet. Seeing that brief struggle in the moment could have been fun, too. What would Hulk want if he could just snap his fingers and get the world of his choosing? But that struggle was never in question. Instead, the stakes of the moment were the question "would Hulk survive?" But those were limp stakes in their own right, neutered when they said the gauntlet's energy was mostly gamma.

Another way they could have given Hulk some meaningful story was to make the gauntlet moment a sacrifice of some sort. Banner had clearly come to terms with Hulk, but what if he knew the pain from the glove would upset the balance he'd struck, causing him to lose that control he'd finally earned? His life's goal--to control the monster within--would be undone, but for the greater good. It would have made his off-screen resolution more palatable, because we would have seen him have to give it up. (And it likely would have gotten us some nice smashing scenes).

But they didn't do anything like that. Banner had no real internal conflict. He made no sacrifice of note, aside from getting a bum arm. The entire movie was essentially a J-Crew-clad denouement for Hulk, usually played for laughs. To me, it was a disservice to the character and to the story they'd engineered over the previous two movies.

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#25 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

I just finished watching the movie. In my humble opinion, I like how the Russo bros handled the Hulk. They're showing the smarter side of the Hulk. They're trying to tell us that the Hulk is more than just smash smash smash. The hulk still proved to be the strongest there is by wielding the gauntlet and surviving it. Something that almost killed Thanos. None of the Avengers had the strength to wield it or else they will be killed. He lifted the Avengers HQ with one hand and saved war machine, and rocket. The point is the Hulk saved the universe. In fact, the Hulk had more screen time than some of the avengers. He also proved to be the smartest avenger. I want to see Hulk smash too but he's done that in Avengers 1, 2. thor Ragnarok, incredible hulk. I also want to see the other side of him too and the Russos did it well. I really don't care if he fought thanos or not. He already proved himself that he is equal to thanos with the feat he performed wielding the gauntlet that almost killed thanos. What i have learn from hulk is he is smart, strong, and prepped. I can't wait to see what they'll do with this Hulk

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#26 Posted by Champion99 (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

I just finished watching the movie. In my humble opinion, I like how the Russo bros handled the Hulk. They're showing the smarter side of the Hulk. They're trying to tell us that the Hulk is more than just smash smash smash. The hulk still proved to be the strongest there is by wielding the gauntlet and surviving it. Something that almost killed Thanos. None of the Avengers had the strength to wield it or else they will be killed. He lifted the Avengers HQ with one hand and saved war machine, and rocket. The point is the Hulk saved the universe. In fact, the Hulk had more screen time than some of the avengers. He also proved to be the smartest avenger. I want to see Hulk smash too but he's done that in Avengers 1, 2. thor Ragnarok, incredible hulk. I also want to see the other side of him too and the Russos did it well. I really don't care if he fought thanos or not. He already proved himself that he is equal to thanos with the feat he performed wielding the gauntlet that almost killed thanos. What i have learn from hulk is he is smart, strong, and prepped. I can't wait to see what they'll do with this Hulk

They showed the smarter side of Hulk? No, that's just banner in Hulk's body. We already knew he was smart and he still got upstaged by Tony. He didn't prove to be the strongest of anything. Wielding the IG isn't what almost killed Thanos, destroying the stones is what almost killed him. Stop trying to make the feat seem more impressive then it is and putting false facts into it to make him seem like Thanos equal. When did he prove to be the smartest Avengers? All this just seems like denial to me. It's time y'all accepted that MCU Hulk is trash. He hasn't been decent since the first Avengers movie.

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#27 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

@champion99: Banner in hulks body, yes. That incarnation exist in comics where he fully controlled the hulk. You forgot Hulk has countless incarnation. Banner in hulks body don't mean anything. We knew he was smart but not like it was shown in Endgame. You have to consider that none comic book reader don't know the other side of the hulk. The hulk said this. Lightning won't save you pal, its gat to be me. You saw what those stones did to Thanos. It almost killed him. None of you could survive. He did helped tony make the gauntlet anyway. He is equally as smart as tony

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#28 Edited by Bezza1969 (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@medulaoblaganda said:

@champion99: Banner in hulks body, yes. That incarnation exist in comics where he fully controlled the hulk. You forgot Hulk has countless incarnation. Banner in hulks body don't mean anything. We knew he was smart but not like it was shown in Endgame. You have to consider that none comic book reader don't know the other side of the hulk. The hulk said this. Lightning won't save you pal, its gat to be me. You saw what those stones did to Thanos. It almost killed him. None of you could survive. He did helped tony make the gauntlet anyway. He is equally as smart as tony

I'm partly with you on your summary of Hulk in Endgame. I really enjoyed seeing the Banner/Hulk scenes early in the movie, along with the "fat Thor" scenes, they were some of the funniest in the entire film.

However, I left the film feeling conflicted. Part of me was very happy with the outcome and what was generally a great movie, but disappointed, because the Hulk fan in me couldn't believe he wasn't included in those final battle scenes.

Cap, Thor, Scarlet Witch, Danvers, Iron Man, all had really big moments battling Thanos and we didn't see a single shot of what Hulk got up to. I still think that's very very disappointing. I'm not saying I expected Hulk to fight and get the better of Thanos, but maybe Hulk vs Cull, or Hulk and Thor vs Thanos....surely that wasn't too much to ask for?

So, I can only conclude that the Russo Brothers are really not fans of Hulk, as they so deliberately removed him from the big action scenes in not one, but BOTH Infinity War movies.

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#29 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza1969: I agree with you as well. I think maybe because his hand was damage or something. But they should have made him fight along side with those three avengers. Waititi would have made hulk fight thanos if he was to direct it

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#30 Posted by bonifidehustla (269 posts) - - Show Bio

I just finished watching the movie. In my humble opinion, I like how the Russo bros handled the Hulk. They're showing the smarter side of the Hulk. They're trying to tell us that the Hulk is more than just smash smash smash. The hulk still proved to be the strongest there is by wielding the gauntlet and surviving it. Something that almost killed Thanos. None of the Avengers had the strength to wield it or else they will be killed. He lifted the Avengers HQ with one hand and saved war machine, and rocket. The point is the Hulk saved the universe. In fact, the Hulk had more screen time than some of the avengers. He also proved to be the smartest avenger. I want to see Hulk smash too but he's done that in Avengers 1, 2. thor Ragnarok, incredible hulk. I also want to see the other side of him too and the Russos did it well. I really don't care if he fought thanos or not. He already proved himself that he is equal to thanos with the feat he performed wielding the gauntlet that almost killed thanos. What i have learn from hulk is he is smart, strong, and prepped. I can't wait to see what they'll do with this Hulk

Naw I cant agree because other characters still get action regardless. The top people just want to get rid of Hulk plain and simple. They fooled us with Infinity War with the fake advertisement. They only did that at the end with Hulk just so wont complain as much. Other heroes have solo movies Hulk does not. Captain/Tony literally talks and have action. Hulk can do the same. As usual with hollywood BS, we have to put more shine regular lame humans vs the big bad. They need to get rid of the cliche but they wont.

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#31 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

@bonifidehustla: I very much agree with you. Personally, this version of Hulk is awesome but if only they made him fight thanos, that would be dope to see or if they made him fight those monsters, it would be cool. Main looking at the Endgame movie and how hulk is being portrayed, it clearly shows that the Russo brothers clearly don't like the Hulk and they even turned him into a coward by not fighting thanos when he is suppose to. Fred tatasciore should have voiced Hulk. Do you know what future holds for Hulk?

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#32 Posted by Bezza1969 (203 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm wondering how much of this is the shared rights politics issue? I cant help but think that if MCU owned Hulk outright he would have had a far bigger role. Also, can someone explain why his arm was in a sling? What happened to the Hulk's famed healing power?

This was by far the weakest version of Hulk ever seen on screen IMO. Even worse than the Hulk who at least traded punches with an armoured Thanos in IW Part 1. Yes, he held up the Avengers mansion with one arm, but he basically did nothing. It took Ant Man/Giant man to rescue all the characters trapped under the rubble which for me rubbed salt into the wound as really Hulk should have been strong enough to do that.

Its annoying because Endgame will go down as one of the greatest blockbuster movies ever and I will always have mixed views because my favourite character was done a disservice by the writers/directors. When you think back to Avengers Assemble and Hulk one shotting that space whale, it really does highlight how pathetic the recent Hulk has been. It started with Hulkbuster IM KO'ing Hulk IMO and I wonder how much of it is down to RDJ's huge ego requiring that he has all the big moments.

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#33 Posted by christianrapper (6366 posts) - - Show Bio

you guys complaining about the hulk must be all under 5. the guy freaking saved the freaking universe because no one else had the durability to do it, he saved everybody from dying in the avengers headquarters after being seriously injured, and built the freaking time machine that saved the universe. i don't get all the whining.

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#34 Posted by deactivated-5cd70a60bb551 (23 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper: You whine about comic book Hulk all the time so maybe you should take your own advice.

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#35 Posted by christianrapper (6366 posts) - - Show Bio

@subzer00 said:

@christianrapper: You whine about comic book Hulk all the time so maybe you should take your own advice.

and you are wrong or are confusing me with someone else.

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#36 Posted by deactivated-5cd70a60bb551 (23 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper: No, i am dead right. Every time there is a thread of Hulk vs some DC character you come in and whine on whats the point of making these threads because speed hurr durr.... Stay in your lane.

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#37 Edited by christianrapper (6366 posts) - - Show Bio

@subzer00 said:

@christianrapper: No, i am dead right. Every time there is a thread of Hulk vs some DC character you come in and whine on whats the point of making these threads because speed hurr durr.... Stay in your lane.

dude, are you really trying to pretend that you know me through some meaningless battle forums? for your information the hulk is one of my favorite characters. the immortal hulk is my second favorite hulk arc besides world war hulk and zen banner. that's the problem with you battle forum guys. you take this crap way too seriously. just because i don't believe the hulk can beat a guy who is faster than light, matches him in strength or is stronger than him, and can just punch him into orbit doesn't meat that i don't like the character. you guys are funny sometimes.

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#38 Edited by deactivated-5cd70a60bb551 (23 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper said:
@subzer00 said:

@christianrapper: No, i am dead right. Every time there is a thread of Hulk vs some DC character you come in and whine on whats the point of making these threads because speed hurr durr.... Stay in your lane.

dude, are you really trying to pretend that you know me through some meaningless battle forums? for your information the hulk is one of my favorite characters. the immortal hulk is my second favorite hulk arc besides world war hulk and zen banner. that's the problem with you battle forum guys. you take this crap way too seriously. just because i don't believe the hulk can beat a guy who is faster than light, matches him in strength or is stronger than him, and can just punch him into orbit doesn't meat that i don't like the character. you guys are funny sometimes.

The way you try to deny this is honestly hilarious to me. Hulk is not your favorite character, you know next to nothing about him. Superman can fly faster than light but can't fight faster than light or even at light speed, nor is he even consistent with his combat speed at all seeing as in majority of his fights he doesn't even use any impressive speed feats and when he does like he did against Doomsday with those 4000 punches all it does is break 1 tooth. He doesn't match Hulk in strength and can't just punch him into orbit, it's never as easy as that. Also i think this tells us a lot about Superman when he needs to BFR someone to win because he almost always uses that when he is weaker than his opponent and can't beat him. If actual Superman fans that are more knowledgable than you can admit to Hulk being able to beat Superman depending on versions than you aint convincing me that he isn't. I am pretty sure you don't even think WBH would beat him despite the fact that WBH counters and overpowers Superman by a huge deal. Seriously though Superman is my favorite character if i am being honest, i just think he loses to someone like Spiderman though. Like i said go and stick with DC characters.

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#39 Edited by christianrapper (6366 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, you sure put a lot of thought into that response.

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#40 Posted by Subzer0O (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper: Of course, if only everyone put as much thought into their post with have a much healthier site, instead every now and then you have smart individuals who say stuff like "Character A punches character B into orbit" because that's how 1% of the fights go in comics, so lets use that reasoning 100% of time times in debates.

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#41 Edited by christianrapper (6366 posts) - - Show Bio

@subzer0o: you are still trying to turn this non battle forum topic into a fight with superman who has nothing to do with anything. Comic books are more than just who can beat who. Some of you battle forum guys are so caught up in that mess that you think a scene where hulk punches thanos is better than hulk actually saving the universe because he was the ONLY one that could do it. He also held the avengers headquarters on his back so everyone would not get killed. (How anyone except thor and hulk survived that makes absolutely no sense because their shields were up and the rocket hit them full on...but that’s besides the point) that’s far more important than any scene in the final battle because without him there would be no final battle.

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#42 Posted by Subzer0O (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper: Not exactly, what i am trying to do is expose your disingenuous motives. Secondly you have no idea what i think or wanted from Hulk in Marvel. So let me tell you now you can stop mischaracterizing me. What i wanted to see was the character development, all of which happened off screen. We never got to see the process of how Hulk and Banner merged, how it happened, what did Banner do to make it happen, where is Hulks own persona now? That all happens off screen. After that since Hulk didn't do much of anything and appeared less than 2 min in Infinity War i was expecting him to have more screen time and have more fights, yes you can whine to me all you want but if Superman appeared in Justice League and didn't fight anyone you would also be going around saying "wtf was that?" It's a massive movie spectacle tha culminated in a massive brawl and we didn't get to see Hulk do any of it, it's the Hulk for god sake we expect him to fight, but because Marvel doesn't have the rights to him they are slowly trying to drift away from the character. There is a lot more to Hulks character than just having him put on the gauntlet for 30 seconds and have him hold the Avengers HQ.

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#43 Posted by christianrapper (6366 posts) - - Show Bio

@subzer0o: the hulk did fight people. He fought people in the final scene. You are right about a lot happening off screen. That’s my one gripe about the hulk. He was scared to come out and all of a sudden he’s professor hulk. They made a big deal about why the hulk and did not show how they resolved it. Supposedly they had a scene showing what happened but either didn’t film it or cut it. The movie is 3 hours and some change long though.

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#44 Posted by Subzeroo (11 posts) - - Show Bio

@christianrapper: Who did he fight? He didn't fight any of the generals and he didn't fight Thanos. He wasn't even scared to come out, he just didn't want to do all the heavy lifting for Banner all the time.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/01/avengers-infinity-war-director-says-the-hulk-wasnt-scared-of-thanos-after-all-7786530/

Yes and that scene was very much needed in the movie instead of something else, they blew their opportunity with showing Hulks characterization.

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#45 Posted by Champion99 (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@champion99: Banner in hulks body, yes. That incarnation exist in comics where he fully controlled the hulk. You forgot Hulk has countless incarnation. Banner in hulks body don't mean anything. We knew he was smart but not like it was shown in Endgame. You have to consider that none comic book reader don't know the other side of the hulk. The hulk said this. Lightning won't save you pal, its gat to be me. You saw what those stones did to Thanos. It almost killed him. None of you could survive. He did helped tony make the gauntlet anyway. He is equally as smart as tony

Exactly, their showing how smart Banner is not Hulk, I didn't forget at all. He helped create Ultron before EG and failed to crack time travel in EG, we didn't see him do anything impressive. Yes but Hulk didn't see Thanos after the first time he used the stones, we did at the end of IW and he was in better shape then Hulk was in. Thanos literally stated at the beginning of the movie that destroying the stones is what almost killed him.

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