Immortal Hulk Respect (Current Hulk)

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#1 Edited by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

Respect The Immortal Hulk

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"Do you know what rage is, Grandmaster? Not the pain of betrayal... the hurt of being wronged by a friend... Pain is loud, you see. Hurt roars and bellows. It only wants to be left alone... to heal... or to die. But rage... rage is silent. Rage is cold. Rage cannot be stopped. And it never. Ever. Dies."

-The Challenger, Avengers #693

This is an idea I had once Hulk came back in Secret Empire, and can finally get around to doing since the feats are flooding in. Essentially, my aim is to make this the most up to date Hulk respect thread available. I will only be including feats of Hulk after his death during Civil War II and will be updating it regularly whenever Bruce does anything noteworthy in his solo or any other canon comic he appears in. If anyone wants to help contribute or notices something that I haven't, feel free to PM me the feat and issue number and I'll do my best to get it here asap. Currently, Hulk doesn't have an abundance of feats, but I figured I'd start early and update it gradually. Anyway, without further ado, let's get to the smashing.

(I'm helping Bagel with this because he's extremely busy, so this is more or less a joint project).

B123A: Italics

TDB: Normal Text

This, taken from a PM post, basically explains what Immortal Hulk is:

So banner's been killed multiple times, has always come back, and has a healing factor and has always had a slight horror vibe to him, so Al ewing has decided to craft that into a story line, and has made Hulk 'Immortal'. This new immortal hulk cannot die and will always come back, operates during the night mostly, and is usually seen 'in mirrors'. He's very intelligent, Al has said that he's one of the top 5 strongest incarnations, and Al decided that his series will have a lot f a horror vibe, so that's why for the most of the time he was fighting the avengers, he did not say a single word.

With that said, he's kind of like the Green Scar persona, but more twisted and dark. Banner's not really a good person, and this hulk is all the dark thoughts he has and will ever have just waiting to burst out of his skin and smash. Banner will be 'listening' to the Hulk more in this series, and kind of channelling him to be 'the monster that hunts monsters' a prominent theme is whether bruce is man, monster or both. Bruce tried to get hawkeye to kill him, to end the threat of the hulk forever, but this latest resurrection proved that Hulk can never die, and in his words 'I am in hell, and the king of hell lives in my flesh'.

So Bruce can get shot in the head, he'll die, and at sundown, Hulk will wake up and come for vengeance.

So in uncanny avengers, secret empire and recently, everybody who 'ressurected' him simply woke him up and gave him a push in the direction of smashing, and he's only too happy to comply.

anyway, these scans and links should help more:

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Prelude to Immortal Hulk
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Hulk's motivations for smashing the avengers
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Banner's opinion on things
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Script for Hawkeye/Banner talk
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The actual talk

here's a workblog for Immortal Hulk

https://alewing.tumblr.com/

some tweets:

So I hear there's a new IMMORTAL HULK tagline circulating - "The Monster Who Hunts Monsters" - from the Next Big Thing panel at C2E2.
That's accurate. There are monsters out there, and Bruce Banner is walking the world and seeking them out. But let's not forget... (1/) pic.twitter.com/Iojp035AoP

— Al Ewing Writes Comics And Tells You About Them (@Al_Ewing) April 9, 2018

"Is he man or monster, or is he both?" That's the question that's always lurking in this book. Bruce isn't just a monster looking for monsters. He's a person looking for people - and that line can blur in ways that might not be easy or comfortable, for us or for him. (2/)

— Al Ewing Writes Comics And Tells You About Them (@Al_Ewing) April 9, 2018

Anyway - some relevant words from the first issue.
"There are two people in every mirror. There's the one you can see. And there's the other one."
"The one you don't want to."
I'll see you all in June. (3/3) pic.twitter.com/V0oXWnfjEE

— Al Ewing Writes Comics And Tells You About Them (@Al_Ewing) April 9, 2018

interviews:

https://www.cbr.com/immortal-hulk-bruce-banner-al-ewing-joe-bennett-interview/

https://www.cbr.com/avengers-no-surrender-waid-ewing-zub-hulk-return-voyager-identity/

Al Ewing: This is something that’s been brewing for a while – the last time I was in the Marvel “writer’s room,” way back at the start of last year, we were talking about the Hulk. and I pitched the idea that he was resurrecting so often because that’s just what he does. Like, we don’t need a MacGuffin or magic or Hydra science every time – he just comes back. That’s what he does. That’s what he is. I don’t think it went anywhere at the time, but when I sat down on my own and really thought it through, that led very naturally into the idea that when the gamma bomb went off, Bruce died… and then he came back. T

I had to go through a pitching process to get the Hulk book, but once I did and I had the basic ideas locked in place, I was doing my usual thing — I did it with Iron Man for Fatal Frontier — trawling through the very earliest appearances to get a handle on the primal vibe of the character, and also absorbing any weird synchronicities that came my way. I heard the old Frankie Vaughn song “Green Door” on the radio, and that kind of wormed its way into things. “Green door, what’s that secret you’re keeping?” There’s a whole thing with the Green Door that’s going to bubble up through the early issues of the book, and end up introducing a new, terrifying enemy for the Hulk, and for the Marvel Multiverse. You’ll have to wait for the July solicits for the first mention of that one…

Ewing: Hulk was locked in by the end of the first sit-down meeting, the day after that “writer’s room” I mentioned. He was definitely on his way back, and we kind of claimed that beat for our own, because we knew it would grab hold of people at the halfway point. And that was very early on – so almost right from the start, we were building a couple of big action scenarios around the return of the Banner Hulk, and you’ll be seeing those play out in month three. Essentially, we had the idea of a whole squad of Avengers against the Hulk, and at first that was going to be all the heavy hitters – which would have been exciting, but would also have had the scent of pro-wrestling to it. Like, if we know the Hulk’s going to beat the hell out of everyone – and we do know that, he’s the Strongest One There Is – it’s much more interesting to pit him against the weak and the wounded, back at HQ. It turns it from an exhibition match into a desperate last stand. (And it is going to be the last stand for a couple of Avengers. There are casualties. You’ve been warned.)

Ewing: It feels like something new, in that I’m not consciously doing anyone else’s Hulk. When I wrote the Maestro for Contest Of Champions, it was very much Peter David’s Maestro – lots of quips, lots of wordplay. But if I’m channeling anything for this Hulk, it’s those very first issues, when he was new and strange and unknown and very much a horror character. I’m kind of opening myself up to all that weird, old, dreamlike stuff and letting it drive the bus a little bit. And one thing that stands out is that everyone was really scared of the Hulk in the very early days, in a way they haven’t been since – they were afraid of what he might do, because they had no idea what he could or would do.

That’s our Hulk. He’s a terrifying mystery – and I’m going to hold off on revealing any of that mystery here. The next three or four issues of Avengerswill answer all your questions.

Ewing: I’m going to jump in and sing Paco’s praises here, as this might be the last time we work together for a little while. He’s a rock – classic and modern at the same time, with energy to spare. I honestly can’t think of anyone better to do the kind of off-beat, fun, wild and crazy cape-comix madness we’ve been getting up to together for the last few years. I know I can throw pretty much anything at him and he’ll make it sing, which gives me the confidence to get really bizarre on occasion. Hulk’s fight with [REDACTED] in issue #686, for example, is one for the ages. And of course, we’ve had inker extraordinaire Juan Vlasco making it all crisp, sharp and electric – those two are the perfect artistic team, and I’m glad they let me hang around for a while.

http://wehaveahulk.co.uk/leamington-comic-con-al-ewing-interview/

Obviously Avengers No Surrender has been used to bring back Bruce Banner once again into the Marvel Universe, why did you decide to resurrect the character in Avengers and not in a Hulk book?

AE:

We wanted to give the Avengers book something and we wanted to get people excited about it and people were! Without the Hulk resurrection, 1) we’d have to put something in that third month of story and 2) it really gave people this big boost of interest halfway through. Otherwise people would be interested in the start and at the end, there would be a dip in the middle and instead we had the Hulk coming back. We built up to that and that big rampage kept people interested, focused and really excited by it all the way through which is good, if we were to do that again we’d have to have a similar Hulk returns type moment.

Also doing it in Avengers I can start Immortal Hulk issue one; I don’t have to give lengthy explanations of how he died and came back – I can just start issue one. New readers can just come in and if they want to, can catch up on what the Hulk’s been up to. They can read the recent Avengers book, and if they don’t it’s not like issue one where immediately your crushed by continuity from comics you haven’t read. I feel like it’s important, certainly for this series, to start afresh as possible. I wanted to get the resurrection and continuity stuff squared away so I could tell the story I wanted to do in the Hulk book.

How would you describe your approach to Immortal Hulk?

AE: We’re doing it as a horror book and we’re very consistent with the tone, we’re also trying to make it different to what’s come before and what’s already out there. It’s going to be the only Marvel comic that’s going to be striking that particular horror tone. We need to be unique as possible, so that’s what I’m thinking about.

Instead of the usual “don’t make me angry” Is the tagline going to be “don’t kill me you wouldn’t like me when I’m dead?”

AE:

Ha ha! Maybe! One thing I’ve tried to bring back is the idea that Bruce Banner can hide; obviously he’s got a well known face. There’s a lot of people who are celebrities and if I saw them on the street, I wouldn’t necessarily know them or be able to place them, I’d say he looks familiar, I wouldn’t immediately say oh that’s the Hulk. We’re bringing back Bruce’s anonymity and his ability to kind of blend in and part of that is that he’s got a lot of experience as a fugitive. So we’re playing up the old TV show, he’s wandering from town to town and we’ve also brought back when night falls, that’s the Hulk’s time, and daytime is Bruce Banner’s time and night is the Hulk time.

The changes don’t necessarily automatically happen at sundown, we make it very obvious that when the sun goes down the Hulk is in charge. We’re getting away from the anger mechanic and we’re going back to the early days when he changed at night. It’s not for the first time that someone’s used this, I know Peter David used this for the grey Hulk and I’ve always liked that.

Would you reckon that this incarnation is more powerful than the rest?

AE:

In a sense yeah. I don’t like the whole “who’s stronger” thing, I think that’s a boring story to tell, so I kind of get around it by assuming that the “Hulk is the strongest one there” – it’s like it says on the tin. In terms of one on one battles he’s powerful enough to win. If he’s fighting all of the Avengers then that’s going to be more of a fight, but the fights are less important than the stories, the emphasis on this book is really on the story.

It’s on story; it’s on tone, mysteries and strange happenings and stuff. Yes he’s powerful; he’s one of the more powerful incarnations of the Hulk – I think he’d certainly be in the top five. He might be the smartest version of the Hulk there’s been, but at the same time that’s not the point and that’s not the focus. We’ll see if people like that and go for it. I’m hoping people will be on board for a darker take on the Hulk. We’re focusing less on what he can bench press and more on the monster in the darkness.

Joe Bennett’s drawn the Hulk in the past, what do you think he’s bringing to the character this time round?

AE:

From what he’s told me, he’s very inspired by the original Kirby Hulk. He’s bringing a real solidity to it and monstrousness. His Hulk takes up a lot of the page and the atmosphere of the room. When the Hulk’s on the page you know all about it! He’s this huge looming presence. His Hulk’s very scary, he’s a got a subtle grasp of expressions as well. It’s no secret that we’ve got Walter Langowski, Sasquatch from Alpha Flight, coming in as a supporting character.

I’m starting to get pages in from Walter now and his expressions are very subtle. Walter always smiles a lot, there are degrees and gradations you see immediately sense the personality. He has a rule of characterisation for the Hulk, he’s quite sinister in places which is good for our purposes.

You pitched the idea at a creative summit, what’s the atmosphere like at those meetings?

AE: It kind of depends of how many people there are in the room, I enjoy it more when there’s a few people in the room. For Avengers No Surrender it was just the writers and the editorial, the writers rooms are quite febrile and there’s a lot of ideas bursting back and forth and you’ve got to be quick on your feet, it’s very easy to sit back and do a lot of listening and nodding and not actually contribute much! They want people to contribute and bring ideas to the room, not just sitting and listen to ideas.

Whenever I’ve been in the writers room I’ve had four or five decent ideas that people like, you put your idea out there and the whole room kicks it about and it’ll change shape in front of your eyes – so you’ve got to be okay about it. But this one the room thought about and the conversation moved on so I kind of thought about it and took it away from me.

You’ve also created a unique Tumblr account which has pages of Green skin’s earlier days, what’s the idea behind that?

AE:

It’s not totally unique, it’s very strongly inspired by a similar account that Matt Fraction did, I forget what that was called. When he was getting ready to do Fantastic Four, he went through the early issues and he’d take panels and just comment on them. I was fascinated by that at the time and I thought when I got the Hulk, you know what I’m going to do one of those. I call it a work blog or a hobby thing, it’s a way of getting into that mental space where I sort of think about the Hulk. So I’ll put up a panel of the Hulk every couple of days but I’ll generally put a hash tag commentary with it.

I look for panels where the Hulk’s very scary or frightening and also when it’s obviously a horror comic. I also focus on the psychology of Bruce Banner and his relationship with the Hulk, the psychology of the Hulk and also the particular trends in the Hulk when he starts to bubble up, like when he started getting into the self-hating phase for a couple of issues. Also when he starts talking about wiping out all of mankind and that’s something that bubbled up and went away again as Stan Lee and the people who was working on the Hulk at the time got more of a handle on the character. One thing I noticed is when the “dumb” Hulk starts to come in, Stan Lee becomes fixated on the Hulk’s clouded brain and I found that I was avoiding those panels because that’s not so interesting to me. My Hulk is very sharp, he’s not stupid and he’s not going to in the third person or doing a baby talk thing, he’s very articulate, like menacingly articulate. Eventually I’m going to run out of interesting panels or I’ll run out of reprints and it’ll slowly die out but not before everything sinks in!

Going back to the very first six issues of the Incredible Hulk, they were all about change weren’t they?

AE:

Yes. I’ve carried on my Tumblr past those, I’m kind of fascinated on how the Hulk’s developed, it’s kind of noticeable on the panels where I’m throwing up on the page that they’ve pretty much entered a pattern, he solidified and stabilised even if he’s not quite the Hulk that we’re used to. He’s in a good place when Stan Lee has a good idea what do with him.

The first six issues, every issue was different and it was a new and unexpected thing. The first issue was a straight up horror comic, then it’s starts getting into superhero territory, but even so Hulk is ending stories by threatening to destroy all of mankind and saying the human race will never be safe as long as he’s around, and he’s the only person doing that at the time. If you look at the Sub Mariner he’s in the villain role at that stage but the Hulk’s the hero, the protagonist and he’s also this terrifying monster the scientist hero doesn’t really have control over. There’s this ongoing question, is it Bruce Banner or is it somebody else? Is the Hulk Bruce or not Bruce, or the anti Bruce? It’s this fertile ground and you can go back to the first six issues and it’s all there. There’s just so much there that you can work with.

Writer Peter David explained that Bruce Banner had multiple personality disorder, are you going to pursue that?

AE: I’m definitely going to get into that. I’m thinking that the mental health of Bruce Banner is something I want to explore but it’s a topic that I want to do right, I’ll see what I end up doing but I’m very conscious it would be easy to get that wrong, so I’m being quite careful with that one. It’s definitely something I’m interested in and it’s something quite close to home. The MPD thing is only a part of it. I don’t want to get into a place where the Hulk is explicable; it shouldn’t be more complicated. Since Dissociative Identity Disorder is such a complex topic and even now people are still working on how to understand it as a thing. It should be as complicated as it is in the real world and we’ll see if I actually manage to get it right and hopefully I will.

In what scenario does the Hulk work best?

AE: The first issue is going to plug him into a horror story; more of an EC sophisticated suspense story and the second issue is going to be a mystery as he’s going to be solving a mystery. The third issue is a more standard horror issue, it’s like an exorcism story and four and five we slightly get into more regular Hulk territory there. He has to deal with a big monster. Over the course of the first arc we’re asking that question what scenarios can we put the Hulk into? Is there a limit beyond which it’s no longer a Hulk story? Can you fit him into all kinds of different things? I think you can put into any number of different scenarios and make it work.

What would you say to fans that’ve dropped reading Hulk books and are tempted to come back?

AE:

We really are a good jumping on point for fans, if you pick up issue one you don’t really need to pick up anything else. If you’re reading Immortal Hulk then you don’t need to read any other Hulk books. Anytime we bring somebody from the larger Marvel universe we’ll tell you who they are, I really want avoid a thing where readers feel like where they’re missing something.

We really need to avoid that when they have an issue of Immortal Hulk and that’s something that satisfies them and they don’t get to the end of that and think “oh I should have read such and such to enjoy this.” We’re trying to do it completely without crossovers, but we are bringing people from the shared universe. The Hulk is part of the shared universe but we’re going to do it in such a way, like Avengers and Sasquatch, we’re seeing them through the lens of the Hulk. We’re applying our own tone; we’re doing it our way. There has never been a simpler time to get on board with the Hulk and start from issue one and that’s got everything you need.

More tweets

The July Marvel solicits are out - including IMMORTAL HULK #2 and #3.
#2 is a glimpse into Bruce Banner's routine... and a mystery that's killing a small town. And #3 features an old enemy and a strange new threat.
What is... the One Below All?https://t.co/pjmHo6pWZZ

— Al Ewing Writes Comics And Tells You About Them (@Al_Ewing) April 17, 2018

In case you missed them, here's a look at the gorgeous covers @thealexrossart did for IMMORTAL HULK #2 and #3. Needless to say, I'm very happy.
Beautiful... but just a little disturbing, too, aren't they? There's something almost hallucinatory about them.
Something haunted. pic.twitter.com/dtzYt54STm

— Al Ewing Writes Comics And Tells You About Them (@Al_Ewing) April 17, 2018

preview art

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Section 1: Strength

Resurrection 1:

(This is his first resurrection after his death, The Hand 'resurrected' him, but simply just gave him a prod. It's important to note that for this specific resurrection, because of the Hand's influence, he was more susceptible to all that was thrown at him, not that it really mattered)

Uncanny Avengers II #16:

Throws a statue at deadpool

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Uncanny Avengers II #17:

  • Hulk couldn't be so much as moved by the combined efforts of Rogue with Wonder Mans strength and Cable's TK, even going as far as to overpower Rogue with one arm:
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Resurrection 3 [Final]:

Same as above, but with the Challenger.

Avengers #684:

  • Tears apart Enigma pretty effortlessly who can make her density as hard as diamonds, later confirmed that Hulk killed Pod here...
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Here's the script for this:

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Avengers #685:

  • Crushes General Maverick Red Hulk's hand despite him also wearing an Iron Man suit to better contend with Hulk:
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here's the script:

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Avengers #686:

grabs and crushes WM's head:

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Here's the script:

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  • Easily restrains Wonder Man (who appears to be far more powerful than classic days) and seemingly could have torn his head off if he wasn't toying with him):
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here's the script

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  • Later in the same issue Hulk repeatedly shrugs off the efforts of Jane Thor and friggin Hercules, at one point literally ignoring their attempts to restrain him and can shake them off by flexing...
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here's the script

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Immortal Hulk #5

Chokes and holds back possessed sasquatch, until he gets shocked by who's possesing him. Don't check out the scans if you haven't read the issue.

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Section 2: Striking

Uncanny Avengers II #16:

Stomped and KO'ed Deadpool

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Resurrection 2:

Same as above, but with HYDRA.

Secret Empire #6:

  • Oneshots a barrier that not even Thor wielding Jarbjorn could break...

Thor's turn:

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"Not even Odinson's strong enough to get through the shielding"

Hulk's turn:

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  • Later in the same issue Hulk proceeds to two shot The Thing:
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This is the Avenger 684's prelude's look at one of the punches:

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Avengers #684:

  • Crushes Captain Glory's spine in one smash:
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Captain Glory had previously been able to fight on par with Proxima Midnight and defeated Ebony Maw

  • Later in the same issue, Hulk one-shotted Cannonball with a casual slap that had enough force to break Quicksilvers ribs when attempting to catch Sam:
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this is the script:

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Also worth noting that Cannonball literally dove headfirst into a charging Mjolnir a few issues earlier and was still conscious so he's very durable when blasting...

Avengers #685:

  • Completely mangles Maverick's face in three hits:
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script (by the way the script describes it, it was basically done after 2 punches):

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Bodies Vision

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  • Then proceeds to hit Vision so hard that he literally causes him to start speaking in Binary...
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Later confirmed in issue #687 that Vision was more or less rendered 'dead' and needs to be repaired:

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Avengers #686

Slaps around WM

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Him just swinging his hands back hurts Jane Thor and Hercules

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Avengers #688

Beats down and draws blood from a freaking Elder of the universe who was taking on and beating an entire Avengers team.

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script:

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Immortal Hulk #5

Draws blood from and hurts Sasquatch, who under Spoiler's possession has unlocked his full power, rivalling that of Bruce's

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When he gets bloodlusted, he really puts the hurt on Sasquatch, beating him down and kind of reverting to a savage hulk kinda speech as well. Interesting. Though, from here, there are pretty major spoilers, so don't read this if you haven't read the issue.

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Section 3: Durability

Uncanny Avengers II #16:

Cable's best only ticks him off:

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neither does Rogue (with WM'S powers)'s

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Uncanny Avengers II #17:

Still Nope:

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Avengers #684

Neither does Enigma's

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script:

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Avengers #685

or Rulk's, which literally breaks the armor he's wearing

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script:

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or Vision's

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script:

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Avengers #686

In fact, Neither do Thor (lightning amped) or Hercules with Rogue, with Hercules hitting him so hard that he hurts himself, WITH A SUCKER PUNCH.

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script:

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In fact, the only thing to actually hurt him was A freaking Elder of the universe who completely dissolved WM with a blast and was taking on a team of avengers punching him clear into space, and even still, he was laughing all the way.

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In fact, the script describes it as equal punch, equal energy attack

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Immortal Hulk #5

Tanks possesed Sasquatch slamming him through a wall

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Section 4: Resistance

Uncanny Avengers II #16:

The Uncanny Avengers fail at damaging him

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Uncanny Avengers II #17:

The Torch's FULL NOVA flame does about nothing but piss him off, even though in this specific resurrection, he's weak to fire

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Earlier in the issue Synapse barely affected his optic nerves and it took everything out of her to barely affect his nervous system:

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Avengers #684

Lightning exhausts himself doing nothing to hurt him, a month before him doing the same produced hundreds of thousands of gigawatts to power a machine

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script:

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Mentacle, an above Professor X level telepath, was terrified looking into The Hulk\'s brain:

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Script:

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Avengers #685

Maverick's repulsors do nothing:

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script:

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Vision's heat blasts don't do much either:

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Script:

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Avengers #686

Rogue can't affect him with her draining:

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Script:

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Him grabbing on to the Pyramoid, which transported and encased everyone else who touched them in crystal, doesn't effect him. In fact, he shatters the Pyramoid.

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here's the script:

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Section 5: Regen/Immortality

Immortal Hulk #1

once the night comes, turns and heals from banner being shot in the head and dying

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Immortal Hulk #2

Instantly Turns to Hulk and heals from his neck being snapped

badass
badass

Immortal Hulk #5

Heals instantly from having Banner's neck cut. Banner died from this.

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Takes and heals almost instantly from multiple slashes and stabs possessed Sasquatch gives him. (I included the next pages so you could get a good look at his body to see that he did, in fact, heal.

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bigspoilers
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Heals from being slashed, having his eyes gouged out, and then being stabbed. Though you could take it with a grain of salt, this being after he absorbed sasquatch's gamma

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Other

is fast and uses this speed to dodge vision's attacks

Avengers #685

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script:

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can smell lies (Al Ewing confirmed this as an ability)

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1. Immortal Hulk #1 2. Immortal Hulk #2

Immortal Hulk #2

Directs Banner and is smarter than he currently is

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Absorbs Gamma. "Eats" it, in his own words

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1. Avengers #685 2. Immortal Hulk #5

And that's about it!

Credit:

@thedailybagel

@battle123axe

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#3 Posted by Toratorn (7569 posts) - - Show Bio

You seem to overhype Hulk's showings in No Surrender storyline. As in, giving a claim and providing a script that says a different thing. For example, saying that he was toying with WM, while script specifically describes Hulk "trying to pop [his head] like a zip" and "giving a serious effort to tear his ionic head off", while failing to do both things. There's also the facts that script confirms that Maverick hurt him, even if slightly, and tells that Hulk is "struggling with the strength of Hercules and Thor".

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#4 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

You seem to overhype Hulk's showings in No Surrender storyline. As in, giving a claim and providing a script that says a different thing. For example, saying that he was toying with WM, while script specifically describes Hulk "trying to pop [his head] like a zip" and "giving a serious effort to tear his ionic head off", while failing to do both things. There's also the facts that script confirms that Maverick hurt him, even if slightly, and tells that Hulk is "struggling with the strength of Hercules and Thor".

the script also says that he was straining WM's body to limits that if his body wasn't Ionic, he would be dead several times over, and he's twisting his body to the limits of it's endurance, all this in the first page before he gets serious, when he gets serious, it literally says that WM is in serious pain and is 'going to get torn apart by this nightmare monster'. Not really failing.

The script literally says 'only barely', that's not different from what i described at all. Then there's the fact that the dialogue and art doesn't precisely follow what happens in the script, moreso the intent, and in the actual comic book, there is no blood whatsoever and hulk simply says 'hn', even worse The script itself said that once he was prepared for the attack, he no-sold it.

It says this a panel before it says that he shrugs them off. It's called he gets stronger with rage. It's a basic power of his.

Honestly I don't get what your problem is with these feats, seeing as how i had no reason to provide the script, and I did so not only to show the intent behind the feats, but to have a deeper level behind the feats, similarly to citing the issue.

Again, I don't see the discrepancy between what we described and the actual comic and script, we said that he was toying with WM and was going to rip his head off, the script supports his and says that he is pushing the body of a these days, nigh thor level character to places that shouldn't be possible, and he's enjoyable. The script says that he's deforming his head, twisting his neck all the way around, and WM is screaming and he knows that he is about to ripped apart. Honestly, if not for the fact that WM has an ionic body, he literally would be dead.

Again, Rulk's best literally only ticked him off, the script says that he hurt him barely, but by the time the actual comic came out, the art shows no signs whatsoever of the hulk being hurt. Oh boy, someone who can oneshot an island amped by iron man armor can ever so slightly hurt hulk, big whoopee. Why does it matter that script and not the art said that hulk was hurt barely by red hulk's best (Why does that matter in a fight), I provided the script for you to draw your own conclusions, not for you to attack mine, which aren't off to the point where we are 'overhyping' anything.

Lol, the script literally confirmed everything We're saying, sure he struggled with two planetary characters, whoop dee doo, he then proceeded to shrug them off, the script's words, not mine.

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#5 Edited by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice job with the respect thread so far. Finding bits of the script to enhance what was going on in specific instances is going the extra mile.

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#6 Edited by DevilmayDare (138 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

You seem to overhype Hulk's showings in No Surrender storyline. As in, giving a claim and providing a script that says a different thing. For example, saying that he was toying with WM, while script specifically describes Hulk "trying to pop [his head] like a zip" and "giving a serious effort to tear his ionic head off", while failing to do both things. There's also the facts that script confirms that Maverick hurt him, even if slightly, and tells that Hulk is "struggling with the strength of Hercules and Thor".

He was toying with WM, i mean WM wasn't fighting back and Hulk was punching him, crushing his head and bending him like a pretzel how is that not toying with someone? If i went against a MMA champion and he literally didn't fight back i would be toying with him as well since i can hit him however i want and all he has to do is take it, now obviously even with WM not fighting back he was still bleeding, getting crushed and was moments away from getting his head torn off. So the fact that Hulk is even capable of almost popping WM's head with one hand or tearing his head off is quite insane by itself. Yes Maverick hurt him but couldn't even hurt him enough to draw blood, while Hulk as the script describes broke 3 of his top teeth(probably more), broke his nose, closed off one of his eyes, broke his hand, caused him to bleed all over, all within 2 hits and what did Maverick do? He hurt him enough for Hulk to say "hn" and literally showed NO cosmetic injury of any kind(and this from the same Maverick who even without the Iron Patriot armor has one-shot an entire island), again another insane feat that i don't understand how he is overhyping, it seems to me you are downplaying it. Did you follow the script? When it says Hulk is struggling against the strength of Herc and Thor do you know what Hulk was doing exactly at the time in the comic? He was literally standing in place while 2 beings with planetary strength were on top of him wrapped around his neck. Imagine a scenario where you stand still, with your arms down and 2 people come from behind you grab you and try to subdue you and yet they fail to do so, you'd have to be WAY stronger than either of them to actually resist them from that position let alone to literally flex your muscles and fling them off like ragdolls seconds later, the script even says that Hulk shrugged them off and sent them flying.

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#7 Posted by DevilmayDare (138 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a good respect thread, a lot of detail and the scripts are a nice touch.

If people have a problem with some interpretation than they can draw their own conclusion from it, nobody is forcing them to take someones word at face value. So far i haven't seen an actual problem with this thread.

Besides i don't know if ppl are familiar with respect threads but literally all of them hype the characters up with flowery verbiage, that's obvious because they are almost always made by fans of the characters so obviously they want to show off their favorite character to people reading those respect threads.

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#8 Edited by phillip33 (4480 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: great job! Can I ask you where you find the scripts?

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#9 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: great job! Can I ask you where you find the scripts?

Thank you!

If you are a $3 patron for Jim Zub on Patreon, you can get PDF's for all his comic books for free, which include all the No Surrender issues, and Champions

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#10 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2395 posts) - - Show Bio

wow!! this is totally amazing. you're going to be updating this, right?

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#11 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

wow!! this is totally amazing. you're going to be updating this, right?

Definitely

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#12 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4162 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2395 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: am glad. this is awesome. you haven't update the totally awesome hulk feat though!!

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#14 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6689 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Edited by WastelandMan (8819 posts) - - Show Bio

Really great job. This is the first time I've seen an RT utilize the script and it gives even more context and makes a lot of the showings even more impressive like the fact that it specifies that Jane and Herc, the same people with a shared planetary feat in the same arc, were exerting all their strength on Hulk yet he sends them flying with a shrug.

Online
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#17 Posted by Farkam (12057 posts) - - Show Bio

cool!

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#18 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

Really great job. This is the first time I've seen an RT utilize the script and it gives even more context and makes a lot of the showings even more impressive like the fact that it specifies that Jane and Herc, the same people with a shared planetary feat in the same arc, were exerting all their strength on Hulk yet he sends them flying with a shrug.

thank you very much

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#19 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: very nice RT. where are we placing him boys??

pretty high, even at this early stage. Al ewing's stated that he's top 5 incarnations. more power than savage slightly less than green scar

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#20 Posted by Ganstaz003 (1217 posts) - - Show Bio

There's multiple things that are incorrect here.

Immortality does not equate to invincibility. Immortality simply means you cannot die by conventional means like disease, aging, toxins, lack of food, etc.

Saying something like "hulk cannot die and will always come back" is pure wishful thinking and a no limits fallacy.

You need to prove Hulk cannot die. Saying something doesn't make it true. If Hulk "cannot die and will always come back", then you would need to show this hulk tanking or surviving planetary destruction. If he can handle that, then you would need to show him tanking or surviving solar system destruction.

You cannot say "Hulk cannot die no matter what because hes immortal". As it stands, he can die. Any attack that is planet busting or above in power output would significantly hurt, if not kill him. We have to go by feats and every character has to demonstrate how powerful or durable they are. Thus far, hulk has not proven that he cannot die, therefore, he can die to any being who can hurt him with their strikes.

Hulk as a character has never been known as immortal. He has always been known as being very long lived due to delayed aging, due to his healing factor. This hulk is no different. It was specifically stated on panel that the challenger (an elder of the universe), revived and brought this hulk back to life. Elders of the universe, using the power primordial, have the capabilities to bring back to life nearly any dead character. It's part of their powerset. We have to give credit where credit is due, so you cannot say hulk is immortal and always comes back, whilst in reality an elder of the universe using the power primordial was actually what brought hulk back. Keep in mind amadeus cho drained the hulk of all his gamma radiation completely, and hulk was then dead for the last 4 years or so. He only came back now, when the challenger using his power primordial, revived hulk and brought him back from the dead.

Now, some of the strength feats are good. However some of them are being misinterpreted. The scripts clearly indicate Hulk was grabbing and squeezing wondermans head trying to pop it like a zit. Yet, he couldn't do so. Wondermans head was fully intact. this means wondermans head was too tough for hulk to crush, and the images clearly indicate he did not crush wondermans head. He tried to but did not do so.

Your interpretation of the hulk, jane thor, and hercules fight, doesnt match up with what happened on panel.

For starters, this was a hercules who did not have access to his strength. He was still depowered after the chaos war. He then refused to accept his power and strength back from zeus. Then, recently, an unnamed human scientist tried restoring his power. But we obviously know that a human scientist attempting to restore hercules' power is not going to give him power anywhere close to what zeus could bestow to hercules.

Jane thor is not physically as strong or durable as thor odinson. Also, you can see that both hercules and jane were trying to restrain hulk there. They were not trying to kill him, rather they wanted to restrain him. Jane, due to her morals as we know, would never allow herself to harm or kill a mortal, because if she killed a mortal like hulk or bruce banner, she would become unworthy.

We recently saw jane thor significantly harm mangog in her fight with him. You can clearly see that jane-thor cuts loose when she fights mangog, yet the attacks she used on the hulk are not remotely comparable to the attacks she used on the mangog.

Now, with regards to hulk flexing off jane and hercules, this is not anything related to strength at all. Hulk was four times the size of hercules and even larger than jane, and if you look at the scan you provided, you can clearly see that jane and hercules were unable to get a grip on hulk due to how large he was. You can be as strong as an elephant, but if you're only 20% the size of an elephant, you aren't going to be able to put an elephant in a chokehold or grab an elephant no matter how strong you are. The strength of hercules and jane does not come into play with this instance, because they were not gripping hulk in any meaningful manner, and even if their strength did come into play, we know that hercules was depowered and jane thor is not physically very strong either.

the secret empire #6 striking instance is again being taken out of context and miscontrued.

Cutting weapons like axes, claws, and sword spears do not hit things with striking power. They chop, pierce, and cut through things.

If you have a super sharp spear, say namors trident. That thing has pierced straight through the hulk and literally killed him. Yet the trident is only maybe 10 feet in length? Unless the trident was being consistently driven through a building or thrown, a stab from the trident would only cover 10 feet of surface area in one given stab.

Look at wolverine's claws. They can chop through the hulk and his skull even, yet it would take them 15 minutes or more to chop through an entire building. Does that mean a building is stronger or more durable than the hulk? According to your logic, a building would be stronger and more resilient than the hulk.

The other problem with your scans is that the Odinson and hulk did not attack the same barrier at all. The other problem with it is also that Odinson put a massive dent in the area he attacked. Which makes sense. His axe is only a couple feet long, it is not going to chop through buildings in one swipe. Hulk can shatter a building, yet if he had a 3 feet long sword, he would only chop a small part of the building. Hulk and thor did not attack the same building in the first place so this feat is simply a flat out lie. And you also conveniently left out the fact that the barrier ironman was inside of in that scan was constantly being battered, shot, and beaten on by massive amounts of characters. Hulk broke through an unnamed and unseen barrier which was already softened up from entire armies battering on it.

Two shotting the thing means absolutely nothing, especially when thor with a casual hammer throw flat out killed angrir who was a version of thing amped by skyfather magic to be above nearly any version of hulk ever made. Angrir stomped red hulk in a 1v1 fight and then thor killed him with one hammer blow.

And the script you provided indicates the vision staggered the hulk with a blow.

This hercules was depowered of his strength. The script does not mention anywhere that hercules "hurt himself with the punch". That is something you clearly made up out of nothing. On the contrary, the script clearly mentions that hercules' punch did significant damage to the hulk, and it makes further mention of the fact that hercules punch should be drawn in a way where it is a prize fighter landing a clean head shot. That is why hercules' hand has stars around it.

You left out some very important parts of the so called fight with the hulk, jane thor and hercules.

Jane and hercules were trying to restrain him. Moreover, that fight was not a fight. Hulk literally punched both jane and hercules twice each, and did not even put a scratch on them or draw any blood from them. Jane and hercules both shrugged off hulks hits and kept coming back at him. Hulk RAN AWAY from that fight after just two minutes. That is why the script and the comic itself, clearly mentions, right after hulk shrugs hercules and jane off, the script clearly mentions the voyager telling hulk to "run! get to the vault!". If he could have beaten jane or hercules he would have, yet what happened in reality was, jane and hercules kept shrugging off his hits, and hulk retreated from a fight he knew he could not win. Hence we saw hulk running to the vault as soon as he knocked hercules and jane off of him.

You also lied about the elder instance. Hulk didn't "laugh off the hit", that was one punch from the elder which totally deformed and bloodied hulks face. And this is a good time to bring up the fact that hulk was literally speaking in space just fine here, with no issues. I guess that debunks the false claims and excuses people were making when thor knocked the Nul hulk out with one blow of his hammer, when Nul was then floating lifelessly in space, and even had his eyes closed, and had a totally blacked out speech bubble next to him indicating he was knocked out. People tried covering up and making excuses there trying to claim the speech bubble was empty because soundwaves dont travel in space. Clearly thats not the case, clearly Nul hulk got clearly knocked out by thor, especially since this hulk got his face deformed and was knocked into space, yet he was talking just fine in space. And this scan also shows hulk clearly can be hurt and killed. What do you think is going to happen if the challenger kept punching hulk? Eventually he would die, there is no way around this, hulk is not invincible, nor is he invulnerable, immortality does not mean invincibility or invulnerability, immortality means you cannot die from conventional means like disease and aging, you can still die and be killed by any being who can hurt you with their physical strikes, which is why the immortal olympians like ares have still been hurt and killed by the void sentry before for example.

In the synapse scan, she nearly knocked him out there, so I don't see why you would try to claim synapse "barely did anything". Overall, some of the feats posted here are valid, but some have been taken out of context or misconstrued into something totally different. We will need to wait and see more of the immortal hulk to get a better idea of how powerful he is.

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#21 Posted by Thedailybagel (12908 posts) - - Show Bio

@ganstaz003:

There's multiple things that are incorrect here.

I feel like this foreshadows your entire post.

Immortality does not equate to invincibility. Immortality simply means you cannot die by conventional means like disease, aging, toxins, lack of food, etc.

Saying something like "hulk cannot die and will always come back" is pure wishful thinking and a no limits fallacy.

You need to prove Hulk cannot die. Saying something doesn't make it true. If Hulk "cannot die and will always come back", then you would need to show this hulk tanking or surviving planetary destruction. If he can handle that, then you would need to show him tanking or surviving solar system destruction.

You cannot say "Hulk cannot die no matter what because hes immortal". As it stands, he can die. Any attack that is planet busting or above in power output would significantly hurt, if not kill him. We have to go by feats and every character has to demonstrate how powerful or durable they are. Thus far, hulk has not proven that he cannot die, therefore, he can die to any being who can hurt him with their strikes.

Hulk as a character has never been known as immortal. He has always been known as being very long lived due to delayed aging, due to his healing factor. This hulk is no different. It was specifically stated on panel that the challenger (an elder of the universe), revived and brought this hulk back to life. Elders of the universe, using the power primordial, have the capabilities to bring back to life nearly any dead character. It's part of their powerset. We have to give credit where credit is due, so you cannot say hulk is immortal and always comes back, whilst in reality an elder of the universe using the power primordial was actually what brought hulk back. Keep in mind amadeus cho drained the hulk of all his gamma radiation completely, and hulk was then dead for the last 4 years or so. He only came back now, when the challenger using his power primordial, revived hulk and brought him back from the dead.

I was about to go in depth as to how wrong this was but then I realized it'd be a waste of time. Please leave.

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#22 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Thedailybagel (12908 posts) - - Show Bio

In fact, @jedixman@rogueshadow the user above is another alt of Whoisthebest. He posts extremely sporadically, says the exact same things in the exact same way, and the only person he's following happens to be whoisthebest...

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#24 Posted by Thedailybagel (12908 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedailybagel: have you read immortal hulk #1 yet?

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Though I think Hulk might be a bit too brutal... I'm just glad that he isn't an outright murderer.

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#25 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe said:

@thedailybagel: have you read immortal hulk #1 yet?

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Though I think Hulk might be a bit too brutal... I'm just glad that he isn't an outright murderer.

yup, i was worried that that was going to be a problem with his characterization. But yeah, this hulk, while not a murderer, definitely has a new feel, kind of like green scar, but also with a ghost rider agent of vengeance feel.

Also, this hulk has consistently felt kind of done with humanity and heroes, and that, and the fact that he's out for vengeance, may explain his brutality.

Any feats that you would want to add? he definitely felt pretty fast here

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#26 Posted by Thedailybagel (12908 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

yup, i was worried that that was going to be a problem with his characterization. But yeah, this hulk, while not a murderer, definitely has a new feel, kind of like green scar, but also with a ghost rider agent of vengeance feel.

Also, this hulk has consistently felt kind of done with humanity and heroes, and that, and the fact that he's out for vengeance, may explain his brutality.

Yeah, he seems like a more sadistic version of Ghost Rider. I don't think he's similar to Green Scar at all though.

Any feats that you would want to add? he definitely felt pretty fast here

Maybe him appearing behind Tommy without making a sound, but I don't think there was anything particularly noteworthy. Although I find it really cool that Hulk doesn't seem like Hulk, he seems like more of an abstract being, his conversation with Tommy (the fact he found him because he was a liar) and his mannerisms were so cool.

I'm enjoying it more and more each time I read it, the art and dialogue fit near perfectly.

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#27 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

yup, i was worried that that was going to be a problem with his characterization. But yeah, this hulk, while not a murderer, definitely has a new feel, kind of like green scar, but also with a ghost rider agent of vengeance feel.

Also, this hulk has consistently felt kind of done with humanity and heroes, and that, and the fact that he's out for vengeance, may explain his brutality.

Yeah, he seems like a more sadistic version of Ghost Rider. I don't think he's similar to Green Scar at all though.

yup, although I think he's like green scar in the ay that he and banner are kind of working together, or at least don't seem to be entirely opposed to each other. Also Green scar has been quite sadistic at times, I'm sure you know the couple of times where he kept smashing past the point where someone was beaten, to the point where he had to be stopped, and like the chaos war abomination instance where he was flat out enjoying it. It draws parallels between the two in my mind (especially considering that much of his story was focused around whether he was a hero or a monster), as this kind of seems like this is the continuation of that, this hulk doesn't have anybody to hold him back, and instead of occasionally being righteous and fighting for the people like GS did, he's just out for vengeance and doesn't give a crap about the people.

Any feats that you would want to add? he definitely felt pretty fast here

Maybe him appearing behind Tommy without making a sound, but I don't think there was anything particularly noteworthy. Although I find it really cool that Hulk doesn't seem like Hulk, he seems like more of an abstract being, his conversation with Tommy (the fact he found him because he was a liar) and his mannerisms were so cool.

True. I think Ewing has a plan with those more esoteric abilities, reading the afterward you get the feeling that his ability to see ghosts, is expanded even further, with him maybe 'seeing our souls and clearly as our bodies'

I'm enjoying it more and more each time I read it, the art and dialogue fit near perfectly.

Definitely,

the 'Sandra Ann Brockhurst. That was her name. She was twelve' is so chilling, and his facial expressions and the moon behind him, let alone the dialogue, makes it an almost perfect horror experience

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#28 Posted by Thedailybagel (12908 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

yup, although I think he's like green scar in the ay that he and banner are kind of working together, or at least don't seem to be entirely opposed to each other

I don't really know how Banner and Hulk feel about each other at this point, I don't we've seen enough for it to be established. I think Green Scar and Banner were more like Allies whereas Immortal Hulk seems to be the monster that Banner has in his closet.

. Also Green scar has been quite sadistic at times, I'm sure you know the couple of times where he kept smashing past the point where someone was beaten, to the point where he had to be stopped, and like the chaos war abomination instance where he was flat out enjoying it. It draws parallels between the two in my mind (especially considering that much of his story was focused around whether he was a hero or a monster), as this kind of seems like this is the continuation of that, this hulk doesn't have anybody to hold him back, and instead of occasionally being righteous and fighting for the people like GS did, he's just out for vengeance and doesn't give a crap about the people.

I see what you mean, but I think Green Scar's whole shtick and question was, "is he a monster deep down, as much as he tries to hide it?". It was his rage that caused a lot of these moments, none of it was him going out of his way to harm people. Green Scar was may more concerned about family and was a really human character... I don't think Immortal Hulk is that human at all, nor is he meant to be. That's what I mean when I say he's more "abstract", he doesn't seem to work the way humans and other hulks have.

I mean you would literally never catch Green Scar having a sadistic grin on his face whilst he hospitalizes and paralyzes a flawed human (who did an extremely bad thing tbf) the way Immortal Hulk did. He just seems different, like has a more supernatural aura about him.

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#29 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

yup, although I think he's like green scar in the ay that he and banner are kind of working together, or at least don't seem to be entirely opposed to each other

I don't really know how Banner and Hulk feel about each other at this point, I don't we've seen enough for it to be established. I think Green Scar and Banner were more like Allies whereas Immortal Hulk seems to be the monster that Banner has in his closet.

Fair enough

. Also Green scar has been quite sadistic at times, I'm sure you know the couple of times where he kept smashing past the point where someone was beaten, to the point where he had to be stopped, and like the chaos war abomination instance where he was flat out enjoying it. It draws parallels between the two in my mind (especially considering that much of his story was focused around whether he was a hero or a monster), as this kind of seems like this is the continuation of that, this hulk doesn't have anybody to hold him back, and instead of occasionally being righteous and fighting for the people like GS did, he's just out for vengeance and doesn't give a crap about the people.

I see what you mean, but I think Green Scar's whole shtick and question was, "is he a monster deep down, as much as he tries to hide it?". It was his rage that caused a lot of these moments, none of it was him going out of his way to harm people. Green Scar was may more concerned about family and was a really human character... I don't think Immortal Hulk is that human at all, nor is he meant to be. That's what I mean when I say he's more "abstract", he doesn't seem to work the way humans and other hulks have.

I mean you would literally never catch Green Scar having a sadistic grin on his face whilst he hospitalizes and paralyzes a flawed human (who did an extremely bad thing tbf) the way Immortal Hulk did. He just seems different, like has a more supernatural aura about him.

All fair points. i think we can both agree that it was a great issue, and I am extremely hyped for what's next

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#30 Edited by Azmoddan (293 posts) - - Show Bio

@ganstaz003: There's multiple things that are incorrect here.

That's ironic coming from you since i read your entire post and i am baffled by the nonsense i've read. You sound almost exactly like Whoisthebest a troll user that used to fanboy Thor to high heavens, in fact not only are some of your points the same, they are even worded exactly the same and your style is also the same which is basically writing long winded nonsense rants with no substance or any scans to back up any of the claims.

Immortality does not equate to invincibility. Immortality simply means you cannot die by conventional means like disease, aging, toxins, lack of food, etc.

No, but at the same time they are not mutually exclusive, we have beings like Thor/Herc who are immortal because they can live almost indefinitely but can definitely be killed by even more convenient methods like destroying their hearts/brain, decapitating them, stabbing them, etc... and then you have some abstract beings that are immortal because they literally can't die in any way.

Saying something like "hulk cannot die and will always come back" is pure wishful thinking and a no limits fallacy.

That's literally what the writers said, so you are gonna disagree with someone who can control the story and literally say and write what they want?

Al Ewing: Because this is going to be a very good comic, and hopefully unlike any Hulk comic you’ve read before. It’s a comic about a monster who can’t die. It’s about a man who believes he can use the darkest elements of his personality to do good in the world, and where that belief leads him. It’s about mortality, atonement and denial. It’s about all the parts of ourselves we don’t like to look at. It’s a horror comic. And if we’ve done even half the job I think we have, it’ll be one of the most talked-about comics of 2018.

https://www.cbr.com/immortal-hulk-bruce-banner-al-ewing-joe-bennett-interview/

On top of that nobody is saying Hulk will come back if some abstract being comes along snaps his fingers and erases Hulk from existence and stops his ability to come back, what is going on at the moment is that Hulk can no longer die by conventional means and stay dead.

You need to prove Hulk cannot die. Saying something doesn't make it true. If Hulk "cannot die and will always come back", then you would need to show this hulk tanking or surviving planetary destruction. If he can handle that, then you would need to show him tanking or surviving solar system destruction.

That's called moving the goal post, again nobody stated Hulk is unable to die AT ALL, like under any circumstances, it's that under normal circumstances that don't involve some ridiculous hax and outside intervention, Hulk will come back. Also your example is really crappy, i mean if by some instance Hulk is shown dying to a planet exploding and then coming back than dying to a solar system exploding makes no difference, he would still come back, he wouldn't be any dead-er from it. What would stop him would be for instance Death itself intervening and stopping him from coming back.

You cannot say "Hulk cannot die no matter what because hes immortal". As it stands, he can die. Any attack that is planet busting or above in power output would significantly hurt, if not kill him. We have to go by feats and every character has to demonstrate how powerful or durable they are. Thus far, hulk has not proven that he cannot die, therefore, he can die to any being who can hurt him with their strikes.

When did he say that? Hulk has tanked planet busting attack on several occasions and they didn't kill him, they actually didn't even significantly hurt him, not that any of that matters to the clumsy point you are trying to make. True, but again you are fighting against a strawman you made since nobody said Hulk can not die at all, he can die but he will always come back unless some outside hax is involved and it's not gonna be simple planet or solar system busting.

Hulk as a character has never been known as immortal. He has always been known as being very long lived due to delayed aging, due to his healing factor. This hulk is no different. It was specifically stated on panel that the challenger (an elder of the universe), revived and brought this hulk back to life. Elders of the universe, using the power primordial, have the capabilities to bring back to life nearly any dead character. It's part of their powerset. We have to give credit where credit is due, so you cannot say hulk is immortal and always comes back, whilst in reality an elder of the universe using the power primordial was actually what brought hulk back. Keep in mind amadeus cho drained the hulk of all his gamma radiation completely, and hulk was then dead for the last 4 years or so. He only came back now, when the challenger using his power primordial, revived hulk and brought him back from the dead.

This is the problem with people that come here trying to debunk things about a character they know little about, that's flat out false since even since the 90's it was hinted that Hulk is immortal and that he would always find a way to come back as death doesn't have the same meaning to them as it does to normal beings

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The elder is no the one who revived the Hulk and it no power primordial is meantioned anywhere, it was confirmed by the writer himself that it was Hulk who came back himself and that Challenger only gave him a nudge no more

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Which is further illustrated by the Hulk comic that just came out where SPOILERS Bruce Banner gets killed, he literally dies from a bullet through his brain and is dead for several hours until he literally brings himself back to life as Hulk, no Challenger there, no power primordial and you can also get used to that because according to the writer that's gonna be a theme as Banner is gonna die a few times in the comic but he will never stay dead.

So i dunno where you keep bringing up the power primordial from since no such thing was ever mentioned anywhere in the comic, you are literally pulling it out of your ass. Cho draining Banner of gamma didn't take away his Hulk, it was revealed that Cho got his own Hulk but Banner still had his own Hulk trapped inside him, it's why he feared it and made a deal with Hawkeye to kill him if he ever sees a sign of the Hulk coming back. The Hulk also came back TWICE before Challenger, first time back in Uncanny Avengers

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then in Secret Empire

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all of which happened before Avengers No Surrender.

Now, some of the strength feats are good. However some of them are being misinterpreted. The scripts clearly indicate Hulk was grabbing and squeezing wondermans head trying to pop it like a zit. Yet, he couldn't do so. Wondermans head was fully intact. this means wondermans head was too tough for hulk to crush, and the images clearly indicate he did not crush wondermans head. He tried to but did not do so.

Where does it say he couldn't do so? WM head was not intact as he was clearly bleeding from his mouth just from Hulk squeezing him, whether or not Hulk could have crushed his head or tore it off is not certain to us, because they got interrupted by Herc, Jane and Rogue, but it was nowhere stated that Hulk couldn't do such a thing for sure, in fact WM himself has stated that he maybe he can

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regardless the script itself confirms WM was in a lot of pain and it is shown with him bleeding and struggling to talk while letting out sounds of pain.

For starters, this was a hercules who did not have access to his strength. He was still depowered after the chaos war. He then refused to accept his power and strength back from zeus. Then, recently, an unnamed human scientist tried restoring his power. But we obviously know that a human scientist attempting to restore hercules' power is not going to give him power anywhere close to what zeus could bestow to hercules.

That is flat out false as Hercules got his powers back as ins confirmed here

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as the scientist fixed the conduit that connects Hercules to the source of his power. Now this is the line that convinced me you are almost certainly Whoisthebest because not only do you regurgitate the same talking point, you do it word by word as if it's copy pasted. Also since you can't properly read, let me explain it to you. The scientist herself did not give Hercules some new power or some artificial power, all she did was FIX the link inside him that linked him to his original power, that's all she did. If Hercules was not at full power then either her or Hercules himself would have stated that somewhere, but no in fact Hercules is pretty confident and boastful about himself.

he also in the same comic only 2 issues later held the weight of Earth with the help of Sunspot

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On top of that he arm wrestled Jane to a stalemate

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which is obviously a nod by the writers as well as the continuation of the tradition of Hercules and Thor arm wrestling each other to a stalemate on 3 separate occasions before

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Jane thor is not physically as strong or durable as thor odinson. Also, you can see that both hercules and jane were trying to restrain hulk there. They were not trying to kill him, rather they wanted to restrain him. Jane, due to her morals as we know, would never allow herself to harm or kill a mortal, because if she killed a mortal like hulk or bruce banner, she would become unworthy.

Yes she is actually, she inherited the power of Thor when she picked up the hammer and her showings confirm that especially the fact that she did better against War Thor and Mangog then Odinson did. Another regurgiatated talking point i heard from Whoisthebest. They actually tried to stop him by any means necessary since the signal sent out to them was that Hulk was KILLING all of their friends.

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so they had no rime or reason to hold back, which is further evident by the fact that Hercules hurt his arm punching Hulk and Jane asking for Hercs help in restraining Hulk since her powers alone were not enough. That's not a problem for Jane actually as she has killed Ice giants before in a rather gruesome manner

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and as we established Hulk isn't really mortal either, on top of that i have no idea where you got the nonsense that killing mortals makes you unworthy it doesn't. Doing evil deeds makes you unworthy, killing someone to protect someone else does not.

We recently saw jane thor significantly harm mangog in her fight with him. You can clearly see that jane-thor cuts loose when she fights mangog, yet the attacks she used on the hulk are not remotely comparable to the attacks she used on the mangog.

This is flat out false, the attacks she used on Mangog and Hulk are the same actually, both times she hit those characters with a lightning charged Mljonir, the only difference is she could harm Mangog and she couldn't harm Hulk.

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pretty much the same, lightning enhanced Mljonir strikes, on top of that Voyager herself explains how their strength is awe-inspiring and every blow they deliver on Hulk is like a thunderclap, yet Hulk doesn't yield.

Now, with regards to hulk flexing off jane and hercules, this is not anything related to strength at all. Hulk was four times the size of hercules and even larger than jane, and if you look at the scan you provided, you can clearly see that jane and hercules were unable to get a grip on hulk due to how large he was. You can be as strong as an elephant, but if you're only 20% the size of an elephant, you aren't going to be able to put an elephant in a chokehold or grab an elephant no matter how strong you are. The strength of hercules and jane does not come into play with this instance, because they were not gripping hulk in any meaningful manner, and even if their strength did come into play, we know that hercules was depowered and jane thor is not physically very strong either.

Again another regurgitated point from whoisthebest down to the exact detail of saying Hulk is 4(FOUR) times their size), how you doing whoisthbest? Jesus Christ dude at least i make 1 alt at the time, i don't LARP on a comic book site with dozens of different alts all having hundreds to thousands of posts...

Anyway this has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with strength as the writers intention is quite clear especially if you listen to their interview which in their early draft had Hulk fighting all the heavy hitters at the same time and kicking their ass

Essentially, we had the idea of a whole squad of Avengers against the Hulk, and at first that was going to be all the heavy hitters – which would have been exciting, but would also have had the scent of pro-wrestling to it. Like, if we know the Hulk’s going to beat the hell out of everyone – and we do know that, he’s the Strongest One There Is – it’s much more interesting to pit him against the weak and the wounded, back at HQ. It turns it from an exhibition match into a desperate last stand. (And it is going to be the last stand for a couple of Avengers. There are casualties. You’ve been warned.)

https://www.cbr.com/avengers-no-surrender-waid-ewing-zub-hulk-return-voyager-identity/2/

Hulk size literally had nothing to do with it since both Herc and Jane where already shown to be able to lock their arms around him with no problem, since you are visually impaired among other things let me illustrate it for you

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notice how Janes left hand is completely wrapped around Hulks arm/shoulder, she literally has him in a lock there as her hand goes around him, same with Hercules who puts him in an actual choke holed as we see Hercules behind Hulk yet his arm is in front of Hulk and around his neck indicating that he put him in a completely choke hold. Your elephant comparison in nonsense, since elephants are more than 10 times larger than us and you could never wrap around your arms around ones neck, which isn't the case here since it is literally drawn on panel with both Herc and Jane wrapping their arms around Hulk. Hulk then proceeds to get them off with nothing more then just flexing his muscles. Herc was not depowered(you can't be depowered and hold the weight of the planet in place) and Jane is as strong as Thor, even Thor himself admitted she is better than him actually.

the secret empire #6 striking instance is again being taken out of context and miscontrued.

No it isn't, your just not very bright on top of being dishonest, let me illustrate.

Cutting weapons like axes, claws, and sword spears do not hit things with striking power. They chop, pierce, and cut through things.

They absolutely hit with striking power, whether the object is sharp or blunt hitting something with it is striking power, the only difference is sharp objects have the obvious advantage since they can bust through things more easily than blunt objects.

If you have a super sharp spear, say namors trident. That thing has pierced straight through the hulk and literally killed him. Yet the trident is only maybe 10 feet in length? Unless the trident was being consistently driven through a building or thrown, a stab from the trident would only cover 10 feet of surface area in one given stab.

Ah yes that one time when a spear for some reason killed Hulk even though he has been stabbed a dozen times by spears and swords through the heart and was fine, then again that wasn't actually Hulk, it was Banner in Hulks body, so the more you know. Jesus Christ you are dense... how much do you think an arm is long? How much does an arm/fist cover when you try to punch it through a building? Whether its your arm or a spear it's the power behind it that matters, that's what brings the building down. If Thor was so stupid that for some reason he didn't use his axe properly why didn't he just switch to punching his way through the bunker? Is it because he knows he has far better chances going through it with an axe than with his bare hands? I mean it's literally that.

Look at wolverine's claws. They can chop through the hulk and his skull even, yet it would take them 15 minutes or more to chop through an entire building. Does that mean a building is stronger or more durable than the hulk? According to your logic, a building would be stronger and more resilient than the hulk.

No they can't really, one comic of them piercing through Hulks skull is not enough as opposed to dozens of times it has failed, on top of that everyone even their mother knows that comic intentionally made fun of and lowballed Hulk, you had Hulk losing a fight to a gorilla while Wolverine beat 3 of them, you had Hulk get one-shot by some featless monster and get swallowed by a whale. Even someone as bias as you has to stop and think about what you are using as an example.

Anyway, holly crap you are denser then the core of the Sun... obviously Wolverine can not bring down a building fast with his claws is because the building is much larger than the Hulk and Wolverine does not have the force behind his strikes to one-shot a building. Give the claws to someone much stronger and they'd bring the building down in one strike as easily(in fact easier than with their fists).

I mean do i really have to tell you to use common sense and think would it be easier for let say Hulk to break through a bunker using just his fists or using his fists that also have Wolverine claws on them, does it take a genius to figure that one out?

The other problem with your scans is that the Odinson and hulk did not attack the same barrier at all. The other problem with it is also that Odinson put a massive dent in the area he attacked. Which makes sense. His axe is only a couple feet long, it is not going to chop through buildings in one swipe. Hulk can shatter a building, yet if he had a 3 feet long sword, he would only chop a small part of the building. Hulk and thor did not attack the same building in the first place so this feat is simply a flat out lie. And you also conveniently left out the fact that the barrier ironman was inside of in that scan was constantly being battered, shot, and beaten on by massive amounts of characters. Hulk broke through an unnamed and unseen barrier which was already softened up from entire armies battering on it.

Yes they did actually, in fact let me let you in on a little secret that isn't a secret at all. The comic that this happens in makes a very obvious point, read this carefully and tell me if you can figure it out

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notice something? The obvious usage of the word "STRONG". Tony literally tells them all Odinson is not as STRONG enough to go through the barrier so who do they bring in literally several pages later that is known for his strength?

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notice how Tony when he sees Hulk doesn't go "dont worry everyone, not even Hulk is strong enough to break through", no he literally goes OMG as he knows they are screwed.

Hulk and Thor literally attacked the same building, in fact you can see Thor above the opening that Hulk made, so he wasn't somewhere else, on top of that Hawkeye is literally shown starring at the dent Thor made with his axe and then when Hulk breaks through he is right in front of him, so how did they not attack the same building?

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Also the barrier was not thick as you try to make it out to be as is shown by the fact that Thors blows with his axe have actually made a very visible dent in the walls

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So Thor was literally inches away from breaking through, the only reason he couldn't is because he lacked the strength behind his blows to do so.

None of the characters actually softened up the barrier, that was the entire point, Tony made it clear that not even with Thor(who was the strongest among them) would they be able to break through because he built in safe mechanisms that will work even against Visions intangibility and Scarlet Witches magic. The only thing he didn't count on is someone with the strength of Hulk.

Two shotting the thing means absolutely nothing, especially when thor with a casual hammer throw flat out killed angrir who was a version of thing amped by skyfather magic to be above nearly any version of hulk ever made. Angrir stomped red hulk in a 1v1 fight and then thor killed him with one hammer blow.

This is how i am 100% convinced you are Whoisthebest. This is a respect thread, what the hell does Thor have to do with what Hulk did to the Thing? It doesn't matter if Spiderman one-shot the Thing, this is a respect thread about Hulk, not a VS battle or a comparison feat thread or a CAV.

On top of that can you tone down your wanking? It wasn't a casual throw, in fact Thor didn't even throw anything, it was him calling Mljonir to come to him which is what pierced through Angrir, so basically it was all Mljonirs doing, not Thors

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I also don't know where you pulled that nonsense that Angrir was amped to be above any almost any version of Hulk ever made, when he is nowhere near even regular Savage Hulk let alone anyone else. Angrir beat a holding back Rulk who refused to use his own powers of absorption on Angrir

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I also have no idea where you got the notion that he stomped Angrir as they had a pretty even ended fight and equal exchange of blows

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the only difference is Angrir was the one to delivered the last blow which BFR'd Rulk and didn't even manage to knock him out.

Compare that to Hulk who fought the Loebforce Rulk who had the power cosmic in him and even absorbed Hulks own powers in that fight and still lost to Hulk.

And the script you provided indicates the vision staggered the hulk with a blow.

And that's literally all he ever did, the same Vision that gave Surfer a good fight, exchanged blows with Ultron, matched strength with Wonderman, 2-shot female Thor, one-shot Nova, sent WM flying, bullrushed through Odinson, etc...

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and all he could do against Hulk is barely stagger him.

This hercules was depowered of his strength. The script does not mention anywhere that hercules "hurt himself with the punch". That is something you clearly made up out of nothing. On the contrary, the script clearly mentions that hercules' punch did significant damage to the hulk, and it makes further mention of the fact that hercules punch should be drawn in a way where it is a prize fighter landing a clean head shot. That is why hercules' hand has stars around it.

No he wasn't the fact that you keep repeating this to yourself doesn't make it magically happen as the comics already established he got his powers back, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hold the weight of the world in place with Sunspot. The script doesn't mention, but the panel shows it as having stars around you are indicators of someone feeling pain or being dizzy. As oppose to the dozens of things you flat out made up? That are literally not supported by anything in the comics? Or the fact that you flat out deny certain scans because you don't like them? No the script doesn't mention that, the script mentions that, the script does mention that Hulk staggers from the COMBINED barrage of Hercs, Thors and Rouges blows but at the same time mentions that he absorbs all their blows as he prepares to retaliate.

Jane and hercules were trying to restrain him. Moreover, that fight was not a fight. Hulk literally punched both jane and hercules twice each, and did not even put a scratch on them or draw any blood from them. Jane and hercules both shrugged off hulks hits and kept coming back at him. Hulk RAN AWAY from that fight after just two minutes. That is why the script and the comic itself, clearly mentions, right after hulk shrugs hercules and jane off, the script clearly mentions the voyager telling hulk to "run! get to the vault!". If he could have beaten jane or hercules he would have, yet what happened in reality was, jane and hercules kept shrugging off his hits, and hulk retreated from a fight he knew he could not win. Hence we saw hulk running to the vault as soon as he knocked hercules and jane off of him.

Hulk never punched Jane or Hercules twice each, in fact he BARELY even punched them once as this was his ONLY punch on them

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all he did was raise his arms up and thats what hit them, it was nothing like a clean uppercut or a normal facing punch, he delivered one of the weakest punches you can do to someone and still sent them flying and reeling in pain. On the other hand Herc and Jane hit Hulk several times and with full force of their punches as mentioned by Voyager but didn't put a scratch on him or where even able to move him. Hulk didn't run away from anything, he literally just went for what he came for and the others were delaying him. To think that Hulk would run away from the fight when he came there looking for one and later even challenged the Challenger to one is ridiculous. He only hit them once and it was enough to hurt them and send them flying, so yea obviously he could have beaten them if he actually tried to, the writer himself confirms this and i don't think you understand what shrugging off means, but them being sent flying while crying out in pain is not shrugging off.

You also lied about the elder instance. Hulk didn't "laugh off the hit", that was one punch from the elder which totally deformed and bloodied hulks face. And this is a good time to bring up the fact that hulk was literally speaking in space just fine here, with no issues. I guess that debunks the false claims and excuses people were making when thor knocked the Nul hulk out with one blow of his hammer, when Nul was then floating lifelessly in space, and even had his eyes closed, and had a totally blacked out speech bubble next to him indicating he was knocked out. People tried covering up and making excuses there trying to claim the speech bubble was empty because soundwaves dont travel in space. Clearly thats not the case, clearly Nul hulk got clearly knocked out by thor, especially since this hulk got his face deformed and was knocked into space, yet he was talking just fine in space. And this scan also shows hulk clearly can be hurt and killed. What do you think is going to happen if the challenger kept punching hulk? Eventually he would die, there is no way around this, hulk is not invincible, nor is he invulnerable, immortality does not mean invincibility or invulnerability, immortality means you cannot die from conventional means like disease and aging, you can still die and be killed by any being who can hurt you with their physical strikes, which is why the immortal olympians like ares have still been hurt and killed by the void sentry before for example.

You say he "lied" about it, but then you don't provide any explanation for why Hulk laughed? Yes his face was deformed because we saw the panel at the moment Challenger punched him, in case you don't know that is what happens to everyones faces when they get punched

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and gave him a bloody nose and thats it. Despite the fact that the punch had enough force to send someone like Hulk flying into space and close to another planet and yet had no real effect on him is a perfect example of the kind of force Hulk can withstand. The Nul instance had different writers/artist and was years prior to this, it literally changes nothing as different writers/artists have different interpretations of whether or not characters can/can't talk in space. I dunno why some Thor fans bring up that instance so much, since it's such a bad showing for Thor. I mean not only is it Thors own event where he is main star but he is literally shown trying to kill Nul, going as far as to yell "NOW YOU DIE" and then proceeds to fail to kill Nul, in fact he is left on his knees while Nul is standing and the only other option he has is to BFR him before he falls into a coma. If the Challenger kept punching Hulk, Hulkd would just punch back or did you miss the fact that Hulk also bloodied up and deformed Challengers face

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In the synapse scan, she nearly knocked him out there, so I don't see why you would try to claim synapse "barely did anything". Overall, some of the feats posted here are valid, but some have been taken out of context or misconstrued into something totally different. We will need to wait and see more of the immortal hulk to get a better idea of how powerful he is.

At no point was synapse even close to knocking Hulk out, the best she could do is screw with his vision and then barely trip him which according to her felt like grabbing a live power line and moving a mountain and that's her just tripping him, so how on Earth do you come to the conclusion that she almost knocked him out? The only things being misconstrued are by you, which is what you always do, now i eagerly await one of your long angry PM's where you explain to me in detail how much you can't get me out of your head.

Cheers.

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#31 Posted by worldbreakerhulk (378 posts) - - Show Bio
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Azmoddan , you're actually right. Here's another proof. That guy on Twitter, - ''George'', that's me, pal 😃 yup. That's me. Proud, you used it as proof.

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#32 Posted by SpikeSpiegell (259 posts) - - Show Bio

What tier would you put him? same as Doomsday?

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#33 Posted by worldbreakerhulk (378 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Worldbreaker already is that powerful but since WB is history, current Hulk(immortal) is legit team buster. Considering his showings from No Surrender

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#34 Posted by Thedailybagel (12908 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe:

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Just read this bit of script, this worries about the new Hulk series...

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#35 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by Thedailybagel (12908 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: Because it seems like Al believes that Banner is genuinely not a good person, despite it proving that when it comes down to it, he is a 'good guy' and so is Hulk. It's like how Bendis see's Bruce/Hulk.

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#37 Posted by worldbreakerhulk (378 posts) - - Show Bio

No one's a 100% good person. Hulk is that little urge you have when you're thirsty for revenge. Happens to all of us.

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#38 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: Because it seems like Al believes that Banner is genuinely not a good person, despite it proving that when it comes down to it, he is a 'good guy' and so is Hulk. It's like how Bendis see's Bruce/Hulk.

hmm. I don't see it like that. I see it as that bruce is not as heroic as all his peers, and is more aligned towards vengeance than being a traditional hero. Besides, if it was like bendis, all the gangsters and tommy would be dead. It's also already a prominent theme, as seen at the end when he asks the hulk whether he's a good guy or not, and the hulk just smiles and the captions read 'OR IS HE BOTH', meaning both man and monster.

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#39 Posted by Azmoddan (293 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedailybagel: @battle123axe:

In case you guys need this in the future

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Yes, Visions head was indeed inside Hulks head when he turned tangible and Hulk no sold it.

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#40 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6689 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by Azmoddan (293 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6689 posts) - - Show Bio

@azmoddan: questions asked in a specefic way to get a certain answer from the person questioned.

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#43 Edited by Azmoddan (293 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_living_tribunal_24: This is the silliest thing i ever heard, are you telling me i somehow FORCED Al to answer the way i want? He literally couldn't just answer me with no, instead of yeah?

I actually asked him in multiple ways so that he could have given me any answer he wanted, for instance he could have just as easily said Hulk moved out of the way or Vision pulled his hand before he turned tangible.

I am not sure how would you have wanted me to ask the question in the first place?

Anyway all this honestly sounds like random complaining, are you not a fan that Hulk no sold Vision phasing his brain? Or what exactly?

Really weird.

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#44 Posted by theacidskull (22027 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

Screw the haters, including those that come on here and try to demean/troll this thread and the character itself. They don't like the fact that Immortal Hulk is getting solid feats, has very strong ongoing series, and is going to be facing all kinds of impressive foes and threats, including those that're Multiversal in level.

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#46 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

Updated with today's showings and some other stuff

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#47 Posted by Duriel (184 posts) - - Show Bio

@battle123axe: Yea i was wondering if people noticed Banner got his neck snapped there, that was also probably the fastest Hulk has ever healed from a broken neck.

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#48 Posted by Battle123axe (9198 posts) - - Show Bio

@duriel said:

@battle123axe: Yea i was wondering if people noticed Banner got his neck snapped there, that was also probably the fastest Hulk has ever healed from a broken neck.

true

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#49 Posted by Ganstaz003 (1217 posts) - - Show Bio

@azmoddan said:

@ganstaz003: There's multiple things that are incorrect here.

That's ironic coming from you since i read your entire post and i am baffled by the nonsense i've read. You sound almost exactly like Whoisthebest a troll user that used to fanboy Thor to high heavens, in fact not only are some of your points the same, they are even worded exactly the same and your style is also the same which is basically writing long winded nonsense rants with no substance or any scans to back up any of the claims.

Immortality does not equate to invincibility. Immortality simply means you cannot die by conventional means like disease, aging, toxins, lack of food, etc.

No, but at the same time they are not mutually exclusive, we have beings like Thor/Herc who are immortal because they can live almost indefinitely but can definitely be killed by even more convenient methods like destroying their hearts/brain, decapitating them, stabbing them, etc... and then you have some abstract beings that are immortal because they literally can't die in any way.

Saying something like "hulk cannot die and will always come back" is pure wishful thinking and a no limits fallacy.

That's literally what the writers said, so you are gonna disagree with someone who can control the story and literally say and write what they want?

Al Ewing: Because this is going to be a very good comic, and hopefully unlike any Hulk comic you’ve read before. It’s a comic about a monster who can’t die. It’s about a man who believes he can use the darkest elements of his personality to do good in the world, and where that belief leads him. It’s about mortality, atonement and denial. It’s about all the parts of ourselves we don’t like to look at. It’s a horror comic. And if we’ve done even half the job I think we have, it’ll be one of the most talked-about comics of 2018.

https://www.cbr.com/immortal-hulk-bruce-banner-al-ewing-joe-bennett-interview/

On top of that nobody is saying Hulk will come back if some abstract being comes along snaps his fingers and erases Hulk from existence and stops his ability to come back, what is going on at the moment is that Hulk can no longer die by conventional means and stay dead.

You need to prove Hulk cannot die. Saying something doesn't make it true. If Hulk "cannot die and will always come back", then you would need to show this hulk tanking or surviving planetary destruction. If he can handle that, then you would need to show him tanking or surviving solar system destruction.

That's called moving the goal post, again nobody stated Hulk is unable to die AT ALL, like under any circumstances, it's that under normal circumstances that don't involve some ridiculous hax and outside intervention, Hulk will come back. Also your example is really crappy, i mean if by some instance Hulk is shown dying to a planet exploding and then coming back than dying to a solar system exploding makes no difference, he would still come back, he wouldn't be any dead-er from it. What would stop him would be for instance Death itself intervening and stopping him from coming back.

You cannot say "Hulk cannot die no matter what because hes immortal". As it stands, he can die. Any attack that is planet busting or above in power output would significantly hurt, if not kill him. We have to go by feats and every character has to demonstrate how powerful or durable they are. Thus far, hulk has not proven that he cannot die, therefore, he can die to any being who can hurt him with their strikes.

When did he say that? Hulk has tanked planet busting attack on several occasions and they didn't kill him, they actually didn't even significantly hurt him, not that any of that matters to the clumsy point you are trying to make. True, but again you are fighting against a strawman you made since nobody said Hulk can not die at all, he can die but he will always come back unless some outside hax is involved and it's not gonna be simple planet or solar system busting.

Hulk as a character has never been known as immortal. He has always been known as being very long lived due to delayed aging, due to his healing factor. This hulk is no different. It was specifically stated on panel that the challenger (an elder of the universe), revived and brought this hulk back to life. Elders of the universe, using the power primordial, have the capabilities to bring back to life nearly any dead character. It's part of their powerset. We have to give credit where credit is due, so you cannot say hulk is immortal and always comes back, whilst in reality an elder of the universe using the power primordial was actually what brought hulk back. Keep in mind amadeus cho drained the hulk of all his gamma radiation completely, and hulk was then dead for the last 4 years or so. He only came back now, when the challenger using his power primordial, revived hulk and brought him back from the dead.

This is the problem with people that come here trying to debunk things about a character they know little about, that's flat out false since even since the 90's it was hinted that Hulk is immortal and that he would always find a way to come back as death doesn't have the same meaning to them as it does to normal beings

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The elder is no the one who revived the Hulk and it no power primordial is meantioned anywhere, it was confirmed by the writer himself that it was Hulk who came back himself and that Challenger only gave him a nudge no more

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Which is further illustrated by the Hulk comic that just came out where SPOILERS Bruce Banner gets killed, he literally dies from a bullet through his brain and is dead for several hours until he literally brings himself back to life as Hulk, no Challenger there, no power primordial and you can also get used to that because according to the writer that's gonna be a theme as Banner is gonna die a few times in the comic but he will never stay dead.

So i dunno where you keep bringing up the power primordial from since no such thing was ever mentioned anywhere in the comic, you are literally pulling it out of your ass. Cho draining Banner of gamma didn't take away his Hulk, it was revealed that Cho got his own Hulk but Banner still had his own Hulk trapped inside him, it's why he feared it and made a deal with Hawkeye to kill him if he ever sees a sign of the Hulk coming back. The Hulk also came back TWICE before Challenger, first time back in Uncanny Avengers

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then in Secret Empire

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all of which happened before Avengers No Surrender.

Now, some of the strength feats are good. However some of them are being misinterpreted. The scripts clearly indicate Hulk was grabbing and squeezing wondermans head trying to pop it like a zit. Yet, he couldn't do so. Wondermans head was fully intact. this means wondermans head was too tough for hulk to crush, and the images clearly indicate he did not crush wondermans head. He tried to but did not do so.

Where does it say he couldn't do so? WM head was not intact as he was clearly bleeding from his mouth just from Hulk squeezing him, whether or not Hulk could have crushed his head or tore it off is not certain to us, because they got interrupted by Herc, Jane and Rogue, but it was nowhere stated that Hulk couldn't do such a thing for sure, in fact WM himself has stated that he maybe he can

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regardless the script itself confirms WM was in a lot of pain and it is shown with him bleeding and struggling to talk while letting out sounds of pain.

For starters, this was a hercules who did not have access to his strength. He was still depowered after the chaos war. He then refused to accept his power and strength back from zeus. Then, recently, an unnamed human scientist tried restoring his power. But we obviously know that a human scientist attempting to restore hercules' power is not going to give him power anywhere close to what zeus could bestow to hercules.

That is flat out false as Hercules got his powers back as ins confirmed here

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as the scientist fixed the conduit that connects Hercules to the source of his power. Now this is the line that convinced me you are almost certainly Whoisthebest because not only do you regurgitate the same talking point, you do it word by word as if it's copy pasted. Also since you can't properly read, let me explain it to you. The scientist herself did not give Hercules some new power or some artificial power, all she did was FIX the link inside him that linked him to his original power, that's all she did. If Hercules was not at full power then either her or Hercules himself would have stated that somewhere, but no in fact Hercules is pretty confident and boastful about himself.

he also in the same comic only 2 issues later held the weight of Earth with the help of Sunspot

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On top of that he arm wrestled Jane to a stalemate

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which is obviously a nod by the writers as well as the continuation of the tradition of Hercules and Thor arm wrestling each other to a stalemate on 3 separate occasions before

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Jane thor is not physically as strong or durable as thor odinson. Also, you can see that both hercules and jane were trying to restrain hulk there. They were not trying to kill him, rather they wanted to restrain him. Jane, due to her morals as we know, would never allow herself to harm or kill a mortal, because if she killed a mortal like hulk or bruce banner, she would become unworthy.

Yes she is actually, she inherited the power of Thor when she picked up the hammer and her showings confirm that especially the fact that she did better against War Thor and Mangog then Odinson did. Another regurgiatated talking point i heard from Whoisthebest. They actually tried to stop him by any means necessary since the signal sent out to them was that Hulk was KILLING all of their friends.

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so they had no rime or reason to hold back, which is further evident by the fact that Hercules hurt his arm punching Hulk and Jane asking for Hercs help in restraining Hulk since her powers alone were not enough. That's not a problem for Jane actually as she has killed Ice giants before in a rather gruesome manner

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and as we established Hulk isn't really mortal either, on top of that i have no idea where you got the nonsense that killing mortals makes you unworthy it doesn't. Doing evil deeds makes you unworthy, killing someone to protect someone else does not.

We recently saw jane thor significantly harm mangog in her fight with him. You can clearly see that jane-thor cuts loose when she fights mangog, yet the attacks she used on the hulk are not remotely comparable to the attacks she used on the mangog.

This is flat out false, the attacks she used on Mangog and Hulk are the same actually, both times she hit those characters with a lightning charged Mljonir, the only difference is she could harm Mangog and she couldn't harm Hulk.

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pretty much the same, lightning enhanced Mljonir strikes, on top of that Voyager herself explains how their strength is awe-inspiring and every blow they deliver on Hulk is like a thunderclap, yet Hulk doesn't yield.

Now, with regards to hulk flexing off jane and hercules, this is not anything related to strength at all. Hulk was four times the size of hercules and even larger than jane, and if you look at the scan you provided, you can clearly see that jane and hercules were unable to get a grip on hulk due to how large he was. You can be as strong as an elephant, but if you're only 20% the size of an elephant, you aren't going to be able to put an elephant in a chokehold or grab an elephant no matter how strong you are. The strength of hercules and jane does not come into play with this instance, because they were not gripping hulk in any meaningful manner, and even if their strength did come into play, we know that hercules was depowered and jane thor is not physically very strong either.

Again another regurgitated point from whoisthebest down to the exact detail of saying Hulk is 4(FOUR) times their size), how you doing whoisthbest? Jesus Christ dude at least i make 1 alt at the time, i don't LARP on a comic book site with dozens of different alts all having hundreds to thousands of posts...

Anyway this has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with strength as the writers intention is quite clear especially if you listen to their interview which in their early draft had Hulk fighting all the heavy hitters at the same time and kicking their ass

Essentially, we had the idea of a whole squad of Avengers against the Hulk, and at first that was going to be all the heavy hitters – which would have been exciting, but would also have had the scent of pro-wrestling to it. Like, if we know the Hulk’s going to beat the hell out of everyone – and we do know that, he’s the Strongest One There Is – it’s much more interesting to pit him against the weak and the wounded, back at HQ. It turns it from an exhibition match into a desperate last stand. (And it is going to be the last stand for a couple of Avengers. There are casualties. You’ve been warned.)

https://www.cbr.com/avengers-no-surrender-waid-ewing-zub-hulk-return-voyager-identity/2/

Hulk size literally had nothing to do with it since both Herc and Jane where already shown to be able to lock their arms around him with no problem, since you are visually impaired among other things let me illustrate it for you

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notice how Janes left hand is completely wrapped around Hulks arm/shoulder, she literally has him in a lock there as her hand goes around him, same with Hercules who puts him in an actual choke holed as we see Hercules behind Hulk yet his arm is in front of Hulk and around his neck indicating that he put him in a completely choke hold. Your elephant comparison in nonsense, since elephants are more than 10 times larger than us and you could never wrap around your arms around ones neck, which isn't the case here since it is literally drawn on panel with both Herc and Jane wrapping their arms around Hulk. Hulk then proceeds to get them off with nothing more then just flexing his muscles. Herc was not depowered(you can't be depowered and hold the weight of the planet in place) and Jane is as strong as Thor, even Thor himself admitted she is better than him actually.

the secret empire #6 striking instance is again being taken out of context and miscontrued.

No it isn't, your just not very bright on top of being dishonest, let me illustrate.

Cutting weapons like axes, claws, and sword spears do not hit things with striking power. They chop, pierce, and cut through things.

They absolutely hit with striking power, whether the object is sharp or blunt hitting something with it is striking power, the only difference is sharp objects have the obvious advantage since they can bust through things more easily than blunt objects.

If you have a super sharp spear, say namors trident. That thing has pierced straight through the hulk and literally killed him. Yet the trident is only maybe 10 feet in length? Unless the trident was being consistently driven through a building or thrown, a stab from the trident would only cover 10 feet of surface area in one given stab.

Ah yes that one time when a spear for some reason killed Hulk even though he has been stabbed a dozen times by spears and swords through the heart and was fine, then again that wasn't actually Hulk, it was Banner in Hulks body, so the more you know. Jesus Christ you are dense... how much do you think an arm is long? How much does an arm/fist cover when you try to punch it through a building? Whether its your arm or a spear it's the power behind it that matters, that's what brings the building down. If Thor was so stupid that for some reason he didn't use his axe properly why didn't he just switch to punching his way through the bunker? Is it because he knows he has far better chances going through it with an axe than with his bare hands? I mean it's literally that.

Look at wolverine's claws. They can chop through the hulk and his skull even, yet it would take them 15 minutes or more to chop through an entire building. Does that mean a building is stronger or more durable than the hulk? According to your logic, a building would be stronger and more resilient than the hulk.

No they can't really, one comic of them piercing through Hulks skull is not enough as opposed to dozens of times it has failed, on top of that everyone even their mother knows that comic intentionally made fun of and lowballed Hulk, you had Hulk losing a fight to a gorilla while Wolverine beat 3 of them, you had Hulk get one-shot by some featless monster and get swallowed by a whale. Even someone as bias as you has to stop and think about what you are using as an example.

Anyway, holly crap you are denser then the core of the Sun... obviously Wolverine can not bring down a building fast with his claws is because the building is much larger than the Hulk and Wolverine does not have the force behind his strikes to one-shot a building. Give the claws to someone much stronger and they'd bring the building down in one strike as easily(in fact easier than with their fists).

I mean do i really have to tell you to use common sense and think would it be easier for let say Hulk to break through a bunker using just his fists or using his fists that also have Wolverine claws on them, does it take a genius to figure that one out?

The other problem with your scans is that the Odinson and hulk did not attack the same barrier at all. The other problem with it is also that Odinson put a massive dent in the area he attacked. Which makes sense. His axe is only a couple feet long, it is not going to chop through buildings in one swipe. Hulk can shatter a building, yet if he had a 3 feet long sword, he would only chop a small part of the building. Hulk and thor did not attack the same building in the first place so this feat is simply a flat out lie. And you also conveniently left out the fact that the barrier ironman was inside of in that scan was constantly being battered, shot, and beaten on by massive amounts of characters. Hulk broke through an unnamed and unseen barrier which was already softened up from entire armies battering on it.

Yes they did actually, in fact let me let you in on a little secret that isn't a secret at all. The comic that this happens in makes a very obvious point, read this carefully and tell me if you can figure it out

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notice something? The obvious usage of the word "STRONG". Tony literally tells them all Odinson is not as STRONG enough to go through the barrier so who do they bring in literally several pages later that is known for his strength?

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notice how Tony when he sees Hulk doesn't go "dont worry everyone, not even Hulk is strong enough to break through", no he literally goes OMG as he knows they are screwed.

Hulk and Thor literally attacked the same building, in fact you can see Thor above the opening that Hulk made, so he wasn't somewhere else, on top of that Hawkeye is literally shown starring at the dent Thor made with his axe and then when Hulk breaks through he is right in front of him, so how did they not attack the same building?

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Also the barrier was not thick as you try to make it out to be as is shown by the fact that Thors blows with his axe have actually made a very visible dent in the walls

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So Thor was literally inches away from breaking through, the only reason he couldn't is because he lacked the strength behind his blows to do so.

None of the characters actually softened up the barrier, that was the entire point, Tony made it clear that not even with Thor(who was the strongest among them) would they be able to break through because he built in safe mechanisms that will work even against Visions intangibility and Scarlet Witches magic. The only thing he didn't count on is someone with the strength of Hulk.

Two shotting the thing means absolutely nothing, especially when thor with a casual hammer throw flat out killed angrir who was a version of thing amped by skyfather magic to be above nearly any version of hulk ever made. Angrir stomped red hulk in a 1v1 fight and then thor killed him with one hammer blow.

This is how i am 100% convinced you are Whoisthebest. This is a respect thread, what the hell does Thor have to do with what Hulk did to the Thing? It doesn't matter if Spiderman one-shot the Thing, this is a respect thread about Hulk, not a VS battle or a comparison feat thread or a CAV.

On top of that can you tone down your wanking? It wasn't a casual throw, in fact Thor didn't even throw anything, it was him calling Mljonir to come to him which is what pierced through Angrir, so basically it was all Mljonirs doing, not Thors

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I also don't know where you pulled that nonsense that Angrir was amped to be above any almost any version of Hulk ever made, when he is nowhere near even regular Savage Hulk let alone anyone else. Angrir beat a holding back Rulk who refused to use his own powers of absorption on Angrir

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I also have no idea where you got the notion that he stomped Angrir as they had a pretty even ended fight and equal exchange of blows

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the only difference is Angrir was the one to delivered the last blow which BFR'd Rulk and didn't even manage to knock him out.

Compare that to Hulk who fought the Loebforce Rulk who had the power cosmic in him and even absorbed Hulks own powers in that fight and still lost to Hulk.

And the script you provided indicates the vision staggered the hulk with a blow.

And that's literally all he ever did, the same Vision that gave Surfer a good fight, exchanged blows with Ultron, matched strength with Wonderman, 2-shot female Thor, one-shot Nova, sent WM flying, bullrushed through Odinson, etc...

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and all he could do against Hulk is barely stagger him.

This hercules was depowered of his strength. The script does not mention anywhere that hercules "hurt himself with the punch". That is something you clearly made up out of nothing. On the contrary, the script clearly mentions that hercules' punch did significant damage to the hulk, and it makes further mention of the fact that hercules punch should be drawn in a way where it is a prize fighter landing a clean head shot. That is why hercules' hand has stars around it.

No he wasn't the fact that you keep repeating this to yourself doesn't make it magically happen as the comics already established he got his powers back, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hold the weight of the world in place with Sunspot. The script doesn't mention, but the panel shows it as having stars around you are indicators of someone feeling pain or being dizzy. As oppose to the dozens of things you flat out made up? That are literally not supported by anything in the comics? Or the fact that you flat out deny certain scans because you don't like them? No the script doesn't mention that, the script mentions that, the script does mention that Hulk staggers from the COMBINED barrage of Hercs, Thors and Rouges blows but at the same time mentions that he absorbs all their blows as he prepares to retaliate.

Jane and hercules were trying to restrain him. Moreover, that fight was not a fight. Hulk literally punched both jane and hercules twice each, and did not even put a scratch on them or draw any blood from them. Jane and hercules both shrugged off hulks hits and kept coming back at him. Hulk RAN AWAY from that fight after just two minutes. That is why the script and the comic itself, clearly mentions, right after hulk shrugs hercules and jane off, the script clearly mentions the voyager telling hulk to "run! get to the vault!". If he could have beaten jane or hercules he would have, yet what happened in reality was, jane and hercules kept shrugging off his hits, and hulk retreated from a fight he knew he could not win. Hence we saw hulk running to the vault as soon as he knocked hercules and jane off of him.

Hulk never punched Jane or Hercules twice each, in fact he BARELY even punched them once as this was his ONLY punch on them

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all he did was raise his arms up and thats what hit them, it was nothing like a clean uppercut or a normal facing punch, he delivered one of the weakest punches you can do to someone and still sent them flying and reeling in pain. On the other hand Herc and Jane hit Hulk several times and with full force of their punches as mentioned by Voyager but didn't put a scratch on him or where even able to move him. Hulk didn't run away from anything, he literally just went for what he came for and the others were delaying him. To think that Hulk would run away from the fight when he came there looking for one and later even challenged the Challenger to one is ridiculous. He only hit them once and it was enough to hurt them and send them flying, so yea obviously he could have beaten them if he actually tried to, the writer himself confirms this and i don't think you understand what shrugging off means, but them being sent flying while crying out in pain is not shrugging off.

You also lied about the elder instance. Hulk didn't "laugh off the hit", that was one punch from the elder which totally deformed and bloodied hulks face. And this is a good time to bring up the fact that hulk was literally speaking in space just fine here, with no issues. I guess that debunks the false claims and excuses people were making when thor knocked the Nul hulk out with one blow of his hammer, when Nul was then floating lifelessly in space, and even had his eyes closed, and had a totally blacked out speech bubble next to him indicating he was knocked out. People tried covering up and making excuses there trying to claim the speech bubble was empty because soundwaves dont travel in space. Clearly thats not the case, clearly Nul hulk got clearly knocked out by thor, especially since this hulk got his face deformed and was knocked into space, yet he was talking just fine in space. And this scan also shows hulk clearly can be hurt and killed. What do you think is going to happen if the challenger kept punching hulk? Eventually he would die, there is no way around this, hulk is not invincible, nor is he invulnerable, immortality does not mean invincibility or invulnerability, immortality means you cannot die from conventional means like disease and aging, you can still die and be killed by any being who can hurt you with their physical strikes, which is why the immortal olympians like ares have still been hurt and killed by the void sentry before for example.

You say he "lied" about it, but then you don't provide any explanation for why Hulk laughed? Yes his face was deformed because we saw the panel at the moment Challenger punched him, in case you don't know that is what happens to everyones faces when they get punched

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and gave him a bloody nose and thats it. Despite the fact that the punch had enough force to send someone like Hulk flying into space and close to another planet and yet had no real effect on him is a perfect example of the kind of force Hulk can withstand. The Nul instance had different writers/artist and was years prior to this, it literally changes nothing as different writers/artists have different interpretations of whether or not characters can/can't talk in space. I dunno why some Thor fans bring up that instance so much, since it's such a bad showing for Thor. I mean not only is it Thors own event where he is main star but he is literally shown trying to kill Nul, going as far as to yell "NOW YOU DIE" and then proceeds to fail to kill Nul, in fact he is left on his knees while Nul is standing and the only other option he has is to BFR him before he falls into a coma. If the Challenger kept punching Hulk, Hulkd would just punch back or did you miss the fact that Hulk also bloodied up and deformed Challengers face

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In the synapse scan, she nearly knocked him out there, so I don't see why you would try to claim synapse "barely did anything". Overall, some of the feats posted here are valid, but some have been taken out of context or misconstrued into something totally different. We will need to wait and see more of the immortal hulk to get a better idea of how powerful he is.

At no point was synapse even close to knocking Hulk out, the best she could do is screw with his vision and then barely trip him which according to her felt like grabbing a live power line and moving a mountain and that's her just tripping him, so how on Earth do you come to the conclusion that she almost knocked him out? The only things being misconstrued are by you, which is what you always do, now i eagerly await one of your long angry PM's where you explain to me in detail how much you can't get me out of your head.

Cheers.

Who I am is totally irrelevant, has no importance and has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. The only thing relevant here is that points / arguments being made. So rather than simply unleashing personal attacks in the form of Ad-Hominem fallacies. You're better off simply sticking to the topic at hand and addressing the actual points / arguments made.

And for your information, although I've agreed with the 'whoisthebest' user before. I've also disagreed with that user multiple times and my post history is available to prove that I've disagreed with that user on more than one occasion. Ergo, I'm a different user altogether. You're assumptions aren't doing you any good at this point.

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#50 Edited by Duriel (184 posts) - - Show Bio

Who I am is totally irrelevant, has no importance and has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. The only thing relevant here is that points / arguments being made. So rather than simply unleashing personal attacks in the form of Ad-Hominem fallacies. You're better off simply sticking to the topic at hand and addressing the actual points / arguments made.

And for your information, although I've agreed with the 'whoisthebest' user before. I've also disagreed with that user multiple times and my post history is available to prove that I've disagreed with that user on more than one occasion. Ergo, I'm a different user altogether. You're assumptions aren't doing you any good at this point.

It is because you are a banned troll user using other accounts just to troll and post the worst regurgitated garbage that is easily debunkable like the garbage above. Your arguments and points have been adressed and debunked. The ad-hom attacks are just icing on the cake as you can see since you are not blind i addressed every single point you made and debunked it.

You just admitted you agreed with a notorious troll user, good job. Your post history shows that you use not only the exact arguments he does which i have never seen others use but you even word it exactly the same, you need to stop playing dumb because nobody is falling for it.

What is doing me good is the massive curbstomping i gave you here.

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