Hulk vs. HulkBuster Avengers AOU

  • 90 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for nomar
#51 Posted by Nomar (1790 posts) - - Show Bio

It was obvious troll bait from the start. I tried to make everybody realize it but nope.

Avatar image for schwarz
#52 Edited by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

Fell right into it. We have been clean from those trolls for a while here on the Hulk forum. Kind of a surprise this turned into a Hulk vs Thor flaming thread... (sarcasm)

Avatar image for fifthchild
#53 Posted by Fifthchild (734 posts) - - Show Bio
@nomar said:

It was obvious troll bait from the start. I tried to make everybody realize it but nope.

I dunno. Seemed like it was a very defensive Hulk fan at first but as soon as the topic came withing 10 miles of Thor i was suddenly a known liar and now theres a semi-legible 1000 word essay about why Thor is really great.

Avatar image for fifthchild
#54 Posted by Fifthchild (734 posts) - - Show Bio

wow, really going to make me go over this again?

lets keep this brief...

bigger/better/stronger are all similes. Stan used them as similar words. The sum of those words= more POWERFUL. Stan wanted Thor to be MORE powerful than the Hulk. If you go by Stans own opinions, he intended for thur to be more powerful than the Hulk.

So Stan didnt literally mean for Thor to be stronger than The Hulk. Thanks for agreeing with me. I hope I helped you out.

Avatar image for schwarz
#55 Edited by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

Have you guys seen the episode of Hulk and the agents of Smash where The Leader controls and merges a Hulk buster, Skaar Buster, She-Hulk Buster, Rulk Buster, A-Bomb buster + Ironman as the heart of the machine to kill milions of people ? No impressive fight but still was a cool episode :)

We Should kind of leave "Thur" out of a thread about hulk and hulk buster hahaha

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#56 Edited by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@nomar: @bezza: @schwarz: @fifthchild:

Ahah wow, troll bait? Is that the only excuse you guys have?

This isn't a Thor vs. Hulk thread. We are discussing Hulk, Thor, and Ironman simultaneously.

Regarding the movie fight, Ironman possibly knocked out a weakened (below base level) hulk. If Ironman waited a few more seconds to punch the Hulk in that last part, the Hulk would have tanked the hit, just like he tanked the 100 punches earlier, and being driven through the building earlier (without a scratch). It was pretty clear that the Hulk would win in an actual fight.

It's hilarious how you guys think its just a Thor v. Hulk while we are literally discussing Ironman vs. Thor and Ironman vs. Hulk as well.

Also, Base level Thor is stronger than base level Hulk. Hulk can reach Thor's strength, and possibly surpass it, if he gets angry enough. Then you have to take into account that Thor has his warriors rage or whatever which significantly increases his strength. This would make their strength levels more equal. It seems that everyone here is in agreement that their strength levels are about equal, but I'm unsure of your opinion on this (fifthchild).

Also, the hulkbuster suit wouldn't damage Thor. I already explained why earlier. But it seems that you cower out of arguments you can't respond to. Thors durability does not get reduced. it stays the same, and maybe increases when he gets into his warriors madness.

Claiming that i'm a troll just because you lose an argument is pretty pathetic. If I only wanted to discuss Thor vs. Hulk I would have made a thread about that. I genuinely wanted to discuss hulkbuster, ironman, hulk, and thor, all together, just as I have been doing. Claiming that hulkbuster can damage Thor is pretty silly. Claiming it can beat Thor in a fight is even sillier. There's a reason Thor is at a herald level while Ironman is nowhere near there, even with all his suits.

EDIT: Just to add something in, Stan did not end for Thor to be (physically) stronger than the Hulk. Their strength levels are near equal. He did, however, intend for Thor to be more powerful than the Hulk, which has been shown when you look at Thor's abilities. "Better/stronger/bigger" are NOT code words for "unique" in any way whatsoever. They are code words for powerful. You are being dishonest if you think bigger/better/stronger has anything to do with uniqueness.

Avatar image for schwarz
#57 Edited by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

It got to troll bait level as soon as Thor vs Hulk was brought into it. You can probably find a lot of other threads about it if you really want to discuss it. People are not out of arguments really, it's just that at some point everything gets repeated over and over again. I think this should really be the end. Hulk vs HulkBuster AOU has pretty much been debated. If there isn't anything new to bring then I guess this is over.

Avatar image for fifthchild
#58 Posted by Fifthchild (734 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahah wow, troll bait? Is that the only excuse you guys have?

Excuse for what? Do you think people are intimidated by you?

Look - life is short. I have a bunch of stuff i should be doing. I've answered similar questions thousands of times on many different boards. At the end of the day it doesnt make any difference as theres always someone new popping up with the same ideas.

This isn't a Thor vs. Hulk thread. We are discussing Hulk, Thor, and Ironman simultaneously.

Regarding the movie fight, Ironman possibly knocked out a weakened (below base level) hulk. If Ironman waited a few more seconds to punch the Hulk in that last part, the Hulk would have tanked the hit, just like he tanked the 100 punches earlier, and being driven through the building earlier (without a scratch). It was pretty clear that the Hulk would win in an actual fight.

Sure, sounds pretty reasonable.

It's hilarious how you guys think its just a Thor v. Hulk while we are literally discussing Ironman vs. Thor and Ironman vs. Hulk as well.

Yeah i dont think you are getting this. Its the fact that as soon as Thor was tangentialy mentioned that you suddenly went into this rant about how Thor was som much better than everyone and declared that you had done research that showed that i "wasnt a good guy or something" - other people felt you were just faking with your earlier questions concerning Hulk/Hulkbuster and it was really all about Thor. I dont really care either way so have at it.

Also, Base level Thor is stronger than base level Hulk. Hulk can reach Thor's strength, and possibly surpass it, if he gets angry enough.

Show me one instance where Thor was stronger than Hulk in a comic book and Hulk had to get angry in order to reach Thor's level of strength. I'll save you the trouble because its never actually happened. The only thing that ever supported this idea was the old Handbooks where Hulk started off below Class 100 when calm. In the comics a Green Hulk has always looked at least as strong as Thor.

Then you have to take into account that Thor has his warriors rage or whatever which significantly increases his strength. This would make their strength levels more equal.

The idea that Thor's warrior's madness boosts his strength is more or less a myth. Its based on a single panel of dialogue from Onslaught where Thor says if he went into Warrior's Madness his strenth would be boosted "tenfold". However in practice Thor has gone into Warrior's Madness with no apparent boost. In fact, in the first appearance of Warrior's Madness (under Stan Lee) Balder worried that going into WM might mean that Thor would lose to a lesser opponent because of the loss of control.

It seems that everyone here is in agreement that their strength levels are about equal, but I'm unsure of your opinion on this (fifthchild).

I think Hulk starts off about Thor level and goes up from there. In modern times Hulk probably seems stronger than Thor from the outset to be honest. The strength rivalry sometimes gets lip service fro time to time but for the most part it ended a couple of decades ago.

Also, the hulkbuster suit wouldn't damage Thor. I already explained why earlier. But it seems that you cower out of arguments you can't respond to.

Well an argument is actually supposed to be a cogent series of statements and not a random mix of insults and unsupported assertions but OK.

Theres every reason to believe that movie Thor would be injured by the Hulkbuster suit. If it could knock a tooth out of Hulk's head its going to do a number on Thor if he gets hit similarly. MCU Thor just doesnt seem as strong or durable as Hulk. And he doesnt have Hulk's ability to keep shrugging off damage when hes angry. That doesnt mean that the Hulkbuster would necessarily beat Thor - Thor has different advantages and disadvantages and would have the brains to destroy Veronica's spare parts station pretty early on - but the idea that it couldnt hurt Thor really has no basis in anything except i suspect your insistence that a really, really angry Hulk is equal to a normal Thor.

Thors durability does not get reduced. it stays the same, and maybe increases when he gets into his warriors madness.

Claiming that i'm a troll just because you lose an argument is pretty pathetic.

Lost what argument? You were asking a bunch of questions and then you decided to get all incoherently aggressive.

If I only wanted to discuss Thor vs. Hulk I would have made a thread about that. I genuinely wanted to discuss hulkbuster, ironman, hulk, and thor, all together, just as I have been doing. Claiming that hulkbuster can damage Thor is pretty silly. Claiming it can beat Thor in a fight is even sillier. There's a reason Thor is at a herald level while Ironman is nowhere near there, even with all his suits.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Theres no such thing as "Herald level" in the comic books - its a Battleboard term from Alvaro's - and theres certainly no such thing in the MCU where there are no Heralds of Galactus.

EDIT: Just to add something in, Stan did not end for Thor to be (physically) stronger than the Hulk. Their strength levels are near equal. He did, however, intend for Thor to be more powerful than the Hulk, which has been shown when you look at Thor's abilities.

I wouldnt necessarily disagree that Stan intended Thor to be slightly more powerful than the Hulk.

"Better/stronger/bigger" are NOT code words for "unique" in any way whatsoever. They are code words for powerful. You are being dishonest if you think bigger/better/stronger has anything to do with uniqueness.

And you clearly either havent understood what i've said or are being disingenuous for the sake of your argument if thats your response. I provided an expanded quote where Stan explains the same thought process that led to the creation of Thor that make it clear that his concern was coming up with a "gimmick" if you will: "But what was left to invent? Who could be stronger than The Hulk? Who could be smarter than Mr Fantastic? .... As you can see, we were hooked on superlatives at that time, always trying to come up with characters who were bigger, better, stronger. However, we had painted ourselves into a corner. " In other words they had run out of superlatives (i.e. strongest, smartest) and they needed something else.

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#59 Edited by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild:

Not sure what you mean by me doing research that showed you weren't a good guy. What exactly are you talking about?

Hulk has to get angry in order to turn into the Hulk in the first place.

I'll repeat it again, base level Thor is stronger than base level Hulk. Stan Lee agrees with me. Stan lee believes that the Hulk can get as strong as Thor, and possibly surpass his base level strength if he gets angry enough.

If a Green Hulk was shown as being "at least as strong as Thor" it was not a base level Hulk. It was above base level.

I never said that the Hulk has to get "really really angry" to be as strong as Thor. I was pointing out that Hulk at base level would be weaker than Thor at base level.

MCU Thor doesn't seem as strong or durable as Hulk?

Avengers 1 actually showed him as being equally strong, and equally durable. He doesn't have the same healing factor as Hulk.

I think you're severely overestimating the Hulbuster suit. Keep in mind, the Hulk had to be UNDER base level in order to be knocked out by the Hulkbuster. At the point when the Hulk got knocked out, his durability at that point was less than Thor's durability for sure. He was calm, had almost no anger. Thor's durability does not decrease if he loses his anger.

a 400% charged Ironman couldn't damage Thor. His headbutt did pretty much no damage. If you look into Ironman you would also see that his suits work similar to electrical machines. It can be overloaded if Thor strikes it with a strong lightning bolt. All it would take would be a big lightning bolt to pretty much destroy his suit. He wouldn't even need to take down his spare parts.

Could the Hulkbuster suit give the movie Thor a bloody nose, like Hulk did to Thor in avengers 1? Sure, it could do that.

Anyway, I was referring more to the comic version of Hulkbuster vs. Thor. They nerf Thor down pretty heavily in the avengers movies. Combined with the fact that Whedon is an atheist that enjoys the idea of making Gods killable. He favors Hulk and Ironman over the other avengers.

whether or not you agree with the term "herald level" really is irrelevant. It's hilarious how you focus on that part of the argument when I was pointing out that Thor is much more powerful than Ironman.

You have your quote, without a source, while I provided a video where Stan clearly states : "Who could we create that was bigger, better, and stronger than the Hulk". If your quote is true, then sure, that could mean that it was about uniqueness. The video I provided though, implies that it was more related to making someone more powerful.

Do you really think that MCU Thor is the same Thor from the comics? You don't think they nerf him at all?

Also, just to add some more info in, Ironman supplicated (prayed) to Odin to help him win some fight at some point, which was when Odin gave him the Iron Destroyer armor. Making super powerful beings was clearly one of the reasons for Stan creating Thor and Odin and making them Gods. Isn't Odinforce Thor even more powerful than odin was? Why would you think Ironman is comparable to Thor or Odin? They are different characters designed to deal with different levels of threats.

Oh, by the way, look up warriors madness on here or anywhere else. Warriors madness DOES increase Thor's strength tenfold, but it makes him dumber at the same time, and makes him attack friend and foe alike. It's hilarious how you literally have to try the existence of warriors madness to try to hold your ground in this argument.

I was browsing some other threads and I will look it up later, but someone posted about Thor matching the Hulk in strength for an hour long fight, during which the Hulk was increasing in strength. Now, assuming that's true, it means that Thor's base level is stronger than Hulk's base level, since the Hulk was increasing in strength for the one hour while Thor was still matching his strength. Or, it could also mean that Thor does have the ability to slightly boost his strength through the warriors madness or something else. Are you seriously going to claim that the only evidence of warriors madness is Thor mentioning it? Did Thor literally say "warriors madness will increase my strength tenfold but I will attack friend and foe alike"? There's probably many more examples of his warriors madness being mentioned in the comics, it's pretty disappointing that you can't even hold your ground in an argument without lying.

@schwarz Do you agree that if Hulkbuster waited a few more seconds to punch Hulk in AOU, the Hulk would have tanked the punch just like he tanked his earlier hits?

Avatar image for schwarz
#60 Edited by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

@whoisthebest: Yah he would have shruged it off easy. Comic wise, cartoon wise and even movie wise, the HulkBuster is really not strong enough to stop the Hulk. I just recently watched Agents of Smash and there was a Hulk Buster, Shulk buster, Rulk Buster, SkaarBuster and ABombbuster and none of them were strong enough. Even when all the busters were merged with IronMan as the heart and controlled by one of the most intelligent beings of Marvel, The leader, it wasn't strong enough and Hulk found a way to destroy it. As far as comics go it was never strong enough and now in the movie, the whole fight, Hulk was easily tanking everything until he wasn't mad anymore. So my answer is no the Hulk Buster suit is not enough to take down Hulk.

Avatar image for fifthchild
#61 Posted by Fifthchild (734 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure what you mean by me doing research that showed you weren't a good guy. What exactly are you talking about?

This:

@fifthchild: oh and since it seems like you have been flat out lying on the forums, trying to convince people that "stan intended for hulk to be stronger than thor", here is the video proving you wrong on that one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEgIfpb5NHY

you seemed unbiased at first, but after reviewing some of your other posts, it seems you aren't.

Hulk has to get angry in order to turn into the Hulk in the first place.

What on Earth do you think this proves?

I'll repeat it again, base level Thor is stronger than base level Hulk.

And i'll repeat it again - show me a single scene in 70 years of Marvel continuity that indicates this is true. I'l save you the time - you cant.

Hulk has regularly fought Thor armed with Mjolnir and in some of those equations Thor has explicitly sought to defeat Hulk even if it meant Hulk died - i.e. Thor wasnt holding back. If Thor not only had a massively powerful melee striking weapon, a bunch of other powers and was stronger than the Hulk for half the fight Hulk wouldnt last 10 seconds.

Stan Lee agrees with me. Stan lee believes that the Hulk can get as strong as Thor, and possibly surpass his base level strength if he gets angry enough.

Have you read the two Stan Lee penned Hulk fights? The very point of the first one was that, after fighting Hulk, Thor wanted to see who was stronger. Doesnt make much sense if Hulk could only possibly reach Thor's strength after a while if he got angry enough.

The second fight (admitttedly plotted by Erik Larsen) ended with Thor's face busted the hell up and Thor crawling away from ther fistfight, utterly unable to mount any credible offense.

If a Green Hulk was shown as being "at least as strong as Thor" it was not a base level Hulk. It was above base level.

I never said that the Hulk has to get "really really angry" to be as strong as Thor. I was pointing out that Hulk at base level would be weaker than Thor at base level.

And i'm saying - show me such an example. Show me Hulk needing to power up to match Thor.

MCU Thor doesn't seem as strong or durable as Hulk?

Avengers 1 actually showed him as being equally strong, and equally durable.

Nope. Thor's punches had minimal effect on Hulk, spinning him round at best. When Hulk punched Thor he went flying through a wall.

Hulk and Thor had a contest of strength between one of Hulk's arms and Thor's whole body. Thor eventually won and managed to stand up but again - Hulk was able to push Thor down with one arm. I'd say movie Hulk is at least twice as strong.

I think you're severely overestimating the Hulbuster suit. Keep in mind, the Hulk had to be UNDER base level in order to be knocked out by the Hulkbuster. At the point when the Hulk got knocked out, his durability at that point was less than Thor's durability for sure. He was calm, had almost no anger. Thor's durability does not decrease if he loses his anger.

i think we've done this to death.

a 400% charged Ironman couldn't damage Thor. His headbutt did pretty much no damage. If you look into Ironman you would also see that his suits work similar to electrical machines. It can be overloaded if Thor strikes it with a strong lightning bolt. All it would take would be a big lightning bolt to pretty much destroy his suit. He wouldn't even need to take down his spare parts.

I dont think you can use the fight between Odinpowered Thor and Iron Man from JMS run to decide what would happen in the movies. But what does this have to do with anything - we werent talking about the normal IM suit - we were talking abot the Hulkbuster suit. And I'm not really that intersted in Thor vs IM. I do think the idea that Hulkbuster IM couldnt hurt Thor is pretty ridiculous though.

Could the Hulkbuster suit give the movie Thor a bloody nose, like Hulk did to Thor in avengers 1? Sure, it could do that.

So it could hurt him. OK good, it seems we dont disagree as much as it seemed.

Anyway, I was referring more to the comic version of Hulkbuster vs. Thor. They nerf Thor down pretty heavily in the avengers movies. Combined with the fact that Whedon is an atheist that enjoys the idea of making Gods killable. He favors Hulk and Ironman over the other avengers.

I dont think it really matters why Thor is portrayed the way he is if we are discussing what movie Thor seems to be capable of.

whether or not you agree with the term "herald level" really is irrelevant. It's hilarious how you focus on that part of the argument when I was pointing out that Thor is much more powerful than Ironman.

"Focus on that part of the argument" - that was your argument. I've addressed pretty much every single thing you've said in tedious detail so i find these attempts to imply that i am "dodging you" to be pretty tiresome.

You have your quote, without a source, while I provided a video where Stan clearly states : "Who could we create that was bigger, better, and stronger than the Hulk". If your quote is true, then sure, that could mean that it was about uniqueness. The video I provided though, implies that it was more related to making someone more powerful.

The quote is from "Origins of Marvel Comics".

Do you really think that MCU Thor is the same Thor from the comics? You don't think they nerf him at all?

For the most part none of the characters are portrayed as powerful as they are in the comics.

Also, just to add some more info in, Ironman supplicated (prayed) to Odin to help him win some fight at some point, which was when Odin gave him the Iron Destroyer armor. Making super powerful beings was clearly one of the reasons for Stan creating Thor and Odin and making them Gods. Isn't Odinforce Thor even more powerful than odin was? Why would you think Ironman is comparable to Thor or Odin? They are different characters designed to deal with different levels of threats.

How does this make any sense? Where did I imply that Iron Man was the equal of Odin let alone Thor? This is why this conversation is so incredibly frustrating.

Oh, by the way, look up warriors madness on here or anywhere else. Warriors madness DOES increase Thor's strength tenfold, but it makes him dumber at the same time, and makes him attack friend and foe alike. It's hilarious how you literally have to try the existence of warriors madness to try to hold your ground in this argument.

I dont think i can be any clearer than this - I know everything there is to know on this subject from the comics themselves. Whereas you seem to be getting you info on Warrior's Madness from Wiki pages and stuff people commonly say on the Internet. You've repeatedly fallen back on "Oh yeah well a bunch of people seem to think this" because you dont seem to be familiar with the source material. Do all the research you would like but you will find that what i previously told you on the subject is accurate.

I was browsing some other threads and I will look it up later, but someone posted about Thor matching the Hulk in strength for an hour long fight, during which the Hulk was increasing in strength. Now, assuming that's true, it means that Thor's base level is stronger than Hulk's base level, since the Hulk was increasing in strength for the one hour while Thor was still matching his strength. Or, it could also mean that Thor does have the ability to slightly boost his strength through the warriors madness or something else. Are you seriously going to claim that the only evidence of warriors madness is Thor mentioning it? Did Thor literally say "warriors madness will increase my strength tenfold but I will attack friend and foe alike"? There's probably many more examples of his warriors madness being mentioned in the comics, it's pretty disappointing that you can't even hold your ground in an argument without lying.

Heres a perfect example of the basis of your knowledge - "I was reading a bunch of other peoples opinions and people seem to think this....so....you must be wrong?" The incident you are referring to is from Defenders 10 btw. Its over 40 years old and its the single incident that Thor fans who want to believe that Thor is just as strong as Hulk desperately cling to in the face of all the other evidence.

Finally its pretty sad that you cant debate without resorting to insults and accusations of lying (without actually pointing out any lies in the first place). Given that, and the large amount of time i've devoted talking to someone who doesnt really seem to have much first hand knowledge of what hes talking about, i dont think theres any point continuing to reply to you. So i guess this is where you can claim that you won the debate because somebody told you that Thor looked really good in a comic you've never read or whatever.

Cheers.

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#62 Posted by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild:

Thor pretty much never uses his God-blast on Hulk. He used his lightning on him like once? He never uses hurricanes/tornados on Hulk either. He usually wrestles Hulk because he likes to..

And you're actually wrong. It is very plausible that Thor at base level is stronger than Hulk, and it would be pretty simple for Hulk to last a long time against Thor in a fight even IF Thor was stronger. Hulk has his healing factor. Hulk's strength/healing/durability goes up as the fight goes on as well. Thor being stronger physically wouldn't make him win the fight in 10 seconds because Hulk has his healing factor. The fight could last any amount of time.

What is your point in mentioning those fights? If the Hulk was handling Thor and equal to him in strength, it means that the Hulk was ABOVE base level. Same with the fight where Thor got his face busted up. Hulk was above base level.

I don't remember Thor's punches "spinning him round at best", but let's say that's true. All that would mean is that they nerfed Thor. I've already explained numerous times why Thor was nerfed.

Ironman is portrayed as more powerful, Thor is portrayed as less powerful. Hulk is about the same. Whedon likes Ironman/Hulk more than the others.

There's people a lot more reliable than you/a lot more honest than you/with a lot more posts/experience than you that admit warriors madness exists. No one is denying that it increases Thor's strength tenfold, as you are. Most people see it as a negative thing over a positive thing because even though it boosts his strength tenfold, it makes him incredibly stupid. now, where did the idea that warriors madness "makes thor's strength increase tenfold, but makes him attack friend and foe alike" come from? Did Thor mention that himself? I doubt it. He might have mentioned the tenfold strength increase himself, but the second part about attacking friend/foe alike didn't come from him. You're trying to deny his ability just because you don't like the idea of Thor being able to increase his strength. In other words, you're a coward that has to lie to hold your ground in an argument.

It's also funny how any fight that I mention between Hulk and Thor, is automatically a bad fight that shouldn't be quoted, while you quote random fights all the time, and you additionally twist the events of those fights, exaggerating what actually happened to fit your narrative.

Honestly I can't respect cowards/liars that can't even debate without lying. Very few people deny warriors madness existing, most people just think the negatives outweigh the positives. And I've given you plenty of examples pointing out your lies.

Avatar image for schwarz
#63 Edited by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

I still don't understand why Thor is brought into this discussion...

Is the Hulkbusyer stronger in the comics: No

Is the Hulk Buster stronger in the Cartoons: No

Is it stronger in the Movie: No

Angry Hulk was destroying the Hulk Buster even worst than in the comic books and cartoons actually. The end result does not matter since it was not a Hulk vs HulkBuster fight anymore. But a HulkBuster hitting almost BruceBanner calm Hulk.

As far as Thor goes, if you think they nerfed him does not matter. The writers decided to nerf him and that is what stands since all of us here are not the writers.

BTW according to Avengers Assemble Hulk and Thor are tied at thumb fighting. Just trying to lighten up the mood :p

Avatar image for fifthchild
#64 Posted by Fifthchild (734 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I can't respect cowards/liars that can't even debate without lying. Very few people deny warriors madness existing, most people just think the negatives outweigh the positives. And I've given you plenty of examples pointing out your lies.

And i cant respect someone who, by their own admission doesnt know what they are talking about, bases their opinion almost totally on hearsay and yet is so quick to resort to insults and lazy ad hominem. Its all the more frustrating that you cant seem to follow the basic logical flow of an argument (you say i deny that Warrior's Madness exists because i pointed out that theres almost no evidence of it providing some sort of significant strength boost).

If you want to seriously debate this stuff head to somewhere like herochat, KMC or Alvaro's. You'll almost certainly cop a ton of abuse if you post their in the manner you have here but you will find people who know what they are talking about and can refer to actual comic books that they have actually read rather than what some other 14 year old kid was able to glean from a couple of scans and a Wikipedia page. Good luck.

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#65 Posted by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@schwarz:

Thor was brought up because fifthchild believes that Ironman is capable of

destroying Thor and because he believes that the Hulkbuster suit is capable

of damaging Thor.

I've tried to point out to him that the Hulkbuster was able to knock out

Hulk because Hulk was calm and that the same thing wouldn't work on Thor

because Thor's durability doesn't decrease. He still wants to insist that

the Hulkbuster suit can damage Thor. I don't think it could do anything more

than temporarily give him a little bloody nose but for some reason he is

convinced that the hulkbuster would actually put up a good fight.

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#66 Edited by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild: Pretty pathetic copout, I didn't get my info from Wikipedia pages, you can read about these characters right here on comicvine. No one doubts that warriors madness increases his strength, its just that the negatives usually outweigh the benefit of the strength increase. You're a dishonest coward that doesn't want to admit that Thor's strength has the possibility of increasing just because you think it somehow makes Hulk look bad when it really doesn't. Hulk's strength is still theoretically unlimited while Thor's isn't unlimited (at least not non OF Thor). We've never seen Thor enter into warriors madness in a fight with the Hulk anyway. Denying it increases his strength is just a pathetic excuse though.

and the only "insults" i used was calling you a coward/liar/hypocrite, which you prove you are. lying to hold your ground in an argument is a cowardly thing to do

Avatar image for schwarz
#67 Edited by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

Could the HulkBuster suit damage Thor... maybe a bruise or a loose teeth just like it did to Hulk. Could it KO Thor. No I don't think so but with plot story, IM could probably do anything since Marvel seems to love sucking his d!!!. I think this is a big misunderstanding. I guess you are a guy pissed off at the fact that in the movie universe RDJ is getting all the praise. You are a bit emotional but I get you though. Maybe I jumped the guns a bit but younhavw to understand a bit before a registered and after there was a bunch of haters and childish trolls on the Hulk forums and for a while now it has been peaceful and we can talk about our favorite hero without so random kid coming in here saying "Hulk sucks"

Avatar image for fifthchild
#68 Posted by Fifthchild (734 posts) - - Show Bio

@whoisthebest said:

Pretty pathetic copout, I didn't get my info from Wikipedia pages, you can read about these characters right here on comicvine. No one doubts that warriors madness increases his strength, its just that the negatives usually outweigh the benefit of the strength increase. You're a dishonest coward that doesn't want to admit that Thor's strength has the possibility of increasing just because you think it somehow makes Hulk look bad when it really doesn't.

Sure. I'm a coward who's addressed and countered every point you've raised. You are trying to bulldoze your way through this topic but lacking knowledge, evidence or logic all you have is insults and a tedious tendency to write lots and lots of text.

Hulk's strength is still theoretically unlimited while Thor's isn't unlimited (at least not non OF Thor). We've never seen Thor enter into warriors madness in a fight with the Hulk anyway.

Ha ha. No we've never seen Thor enter Warrior's Madness against Hulk. Oh wait a minute - we have. Oh dear.

Why dont you try reading The Incredible Hulk 440, or lets be honest, quickly do a Google search to see what other people have said about this issue. You obviously know more about this issue than i do.

and the only "insults" i used was calling you a coward/liar/hypocrite, which you prove you are. lying to hold your ground in an argument is a cowardly thing to do

Hmmmm. I feel pretty confident in my reputation based on the things i've said.

A quick look at your posting history, hwever, shows that other people seem to be left with remarkably similar impressions of you however as the one you made on me:

http://www.comicvine.com/iron-man/4005-1455/forums/when-will-ironman-surpass-thor-651079/?page=2#js-message-14865803

"Why are you so confident in your posts and so quick to call me out when you don't even know about basic and well-known fights? And then after I shoot down every comment with logic, reasoning, and proof you still keep this smug attitude like I don't know what I'm talking about here and that I'm "lying". Yes, they've fought. Why don't you google it and find scans of it. Thor got his @$$ whooped."

In short you seem to have this massive chip on your shoulder and no real idea what you are talking about.

Agressive ignorance - not a real great combination methinks.

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#69 Posted by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild:

You've addressed every point I made- with your lies and cowardly responses. You have never countered anything. Anytime you

counter my point, I admit to it gladly, something you refuse to do because you are a pathetic, delusional coward that

doesn't have the courage to admit when you're wrong.

Oh we have sen Thor enter warriors madness? great. How does that change anything? Most people are in agreement that his

warriors madness is a bad thing, unless he's just fighting a large group of weaker enemies and he can just bash through

them all. IN terms of physical strength though, warriors madness does increase his strength.

Ahh, wow. You really should go through the thread you posted up there. You would have a love/hate relationship with the

guy on that thread. The guy on that thread believes that Ironman is better than Thor, which you gladly agree with even

though you know it isn't true. However, he thinks Ironman is better than hulk as well, which would probably make you

butthurt.

He's also a massive, cowardly liar and hypocrite. He doesn't know about the differences between different types of

adamantium. He thinks Ironman can match the Hulk in strength/power. He mentions Ironman having teleportation and time

travel abilities that exceed Odin and Zeus' teleportation/time travel abilities. As soon as Odin being able to time travel

is mentioned, he starts asking about limits on his time travel, while he never mentions Ironman's time travel machine

having limits. He mentions limits on Hulks strength but never acknowledges limits on ironmans time travel/captain americas

shield and other things.

@schwarz The Hulk and Thor are some of my top favorite marvel characters I like Thor slightly more just due to his looks and and lightning/storm powers. And then the odinforce is another reason I like Thor slightly more. And mjolnir. I never understood why someone would think Ironman or Spiderman is better than either of these characters and I don't understand the logic behind why someone would like Ironman/other characters more than Thor or Hulk

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#70 Posted by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild: @schwarz What's your guys opinion on Hulk's strength vs Hercules strength? Aren't Thor, Hulk, Hercules all on about the same level of strength generally? Or is Hercules stronger than the other two? talking to someone saying hercules is stronger than hulk and curious to see your response

Avatar image for ondskapt666
#71 Edited by Ondskapt666 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild, @schwarz and @nomar

He is a troll or the biggest fanboy I have ever seen. @noone301994, @w0nd, myself and a few others are dealing with him in this thread. He pushes away facts, scans and logic with his emotions and then personally attacks with name calling. Be careful with this one....

Avatar image for ondskapt666
#72 Posted by Ondskapt666 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

@whoisthebest said:

@fifthchild: @schwarz What's your guys opinion on Hulk's strength vs Hercules strength? Aren't Thor, Hulk, Hercules all on about the same level of strength generally? Or is Hercules stronger than the other two? talking to someone saying hercules is stronger than hulk and curious to see your response

That person would be me. Here is the thread to see the full context of the "debate".

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#73 Posted by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@ondskapt666:

I actually just posted up numerous Hulk feats on that thread. Beyonder acknowledged that the Hulk is the strongest.

LOL, you're claiming that Ironman has more durability than Hulk or Thor. you're really asking the wrong people about that. Ironman's durability doesn't exceed Hulk or Thor's no matter how much you wish it did.

Avatar image for noone301994
#74 Posted by Noone301994 (22169 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmfao what a mess this thread turned out to be. This guy should be banned. He's a very hostile and biased individual.

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#75 Edited by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone301994: You're calling me biased when you're claiming that the Hulkbuster knocked out an "angry" Hulk in AOU? I'm 'hostile' because I call out liars when I see them? Are you that much of a coward that you want to ban anyone that destroys you in an online argument? it must feel good trying to get people banned when you can't disprove their arguments, right? that sounds like something a coward would do.

@fifthchild@schwarz Both the guys that commented here, this "noone" guy, and the "ondskapt" guy, are both claiming that the Hulkbuster knocked out an angry Hulk in the avengers AOU fight. I've never seen Ironman fans so biased that they start lying just to make themselves feel better about Ironman.

Both these guys also believe that Ironman has better durability than Hulk or Thor. Their only 'evidence' for this, is posting up scans of Ironman surviving nuclear explosions. As if Hulk or Thor haven't survived the same, or much worse.

Also funny how both these guys claimed hercules/thor are stronger than the Hulk, and now they're coming and posting here, hoping nobody remembers that.

Avatar image for noone301994
#76 Edited by Noone301994 (22169 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for ondskapt666
#77 Edited by Ondskapt666 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

@whoisthebest said:

@ondskapt666:

I actually just posted up numerous Hulk feats on that thread. Beyonder acknowledged that the Hulk is the strongest.

You posted claims to feats without scans. I proved all my points with scans. I have nothing more to say to you until you prove me wrong.

@noone301994 said:

Lmfao what a mess this thread turned out to be. This guy should be banned. He's a very hostile and biased individual.

I'm really surprised he hasn't been banned yet. He does the same thing in almost every thread he posts in.

@whoisthebest said:

Also funny how both these guys claimed hercules/thor are stronger than the Hulk, and now they're coming and posting here, hoping nobody remembers that.

LOL. Do you hear yourself? I proved with multiple scans that Hercules is stronger then Hulk.

Avatar image for schwarz
#78 Edited by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

@whoisthebest: Don't get too emotional about this. I haven't read the whole thread you posted, in fact I haven't read it at all. I might disagree with them but you have to remember those are only fictional characters and no one is really objective when it comes to who beats who. They have a different opinion which I might not agree with but calling people coward or liars for rooting for their favorite is not the right way to argue. At some point you have to stop and think, are those people really worth my time. I have been on the Hulk forums for a little while now and I try to leave the other forums alone so I can chat with people who are also fans of Hulk and leave the others alone to their own favorites. I mean to me Maestro which is Hulk might be fighting Doom in September, and if that happens, he will no doubt in my mind be one of the strongest marvel universe character. But again it's my opinion and a lot of people might not agree but who cares. I'ma stay here on my character's forum and talk about it with other fans and actually enjoy my time instead of just argueing about something that is actually trivial in life and probably won't come to a mutual understanding. Some people enjoy the battle forums and I think they are pretty clean. But even if everybody on comicvine agrees to a winner in a battle and I don't, it won't change my mind and it won't make it right because you know what, if Mickey Mouse or Marvel wants Spiderman to defeat Galactus you won't have any say in it except "*crying PIS PIS PIS *WHINING BLAHHH..." A good debate is fun but when it comes to childhood heroes, it kinda becomes a "my dad is stronger than yours" childish battle.

Avatar image for w0nd
#79 Edited by w0nd (6803 posts) - - Show Bio

@ondskapt666 said:

@fifthchild, @schwarz and @nomar

He is a troll or the biggest fanboy I have ever seen. @noone301994, @w0nd, myself and a few others are dealing with him in this thread. He pushes away facts, scans and logic with his emotions and then personally attacks with name calling. Be careful with this one....

i like when someone is "debating" (arguing randomly with another person) and you post a scan no SEVERAL scans of something, and bring up past and current points all in your favor and against theirs, and they skip over it, completely... because it's not in their favor, and you know for a fact they skipped over your post because there is no way to miss it lol. Those are the topics I imagine this guy to be in.

Hell i didn't even realize this was another thread, because I am trying to avoid reading the posts lmao, sometimes certain posts are so insane you can't help but reply, and then you realize what a mistake you've made because it's arguing with someone who doesn't believe in scans, or the words from the character/writers own mouth/hands

Avatar image for noone301994
#80 Posted by Noone301994 (22169 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone is wrong except for him. You can't deal with people like that.

Avatar image for ondskapt666
#81 Edited by Ondskapt666 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd said:

@ondskapt666 said:

@fifthchild, @schwarz and @nomar

He is a troll or the biggest fanboy I have ever seen. @noone301994, @w0nd, myself and a few others are dealing with him in this thread. He pushes away facts, scans and logic with his emotions and then personally attacks with name calling. Be careful with this one....

i like when someone is "debating" (arguing randomly with another person) and you post a scan no SEVERAL scans of something, and bring up past and current points all in your favor and against theirs, and they skip over it, completely... because it's not in their favor, and you know for a fact they skipped over your post because there is no way to miss it lol. Those are the topics I imagine this guy to be in.

Yeah, it can definitely be annoying and aggravating. Once someone does this and attacks you personally then the debate is over and everything after it is irreverent.

Hell i didn't even realize this was another thread, because I am trying to avoid reading the posts lmao, sometimes certain posts are so insane you can't help but reply, and then you realize what a mistake you've made because it's arguing with someone who doesn't believe in scans, or the words from the character/writers own mouth/hands

I think there are 3/4 threads with his nonsense. I agree.

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#82 Posted by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone301994: @ondskapt666: @w0nd:

Please explain why the Beyonder stated that the Hulk is the strongest? Was he lying? Seriously all you need to do with these characters is go look them up on marvel wiki and spend like 40 minutes reading each character page. they have all their feats/abilities mentioned on there.

Hulk and Thor are more durable than Ironman by the way. The only excuse you guys have been able to come up with is saying "wiki pages are wrong". So far everything mentioned on these wiki pages has been true. Or is the beyonder thing a lie?

Avatar image for noone301994
#83 Edited by Noone301994 (22169 posts) - - Show Bio

@whoisthebest: So based off of one statement that makes Hulk as strong as Skyfathers? Stronger than a guy who could lift a planet? That makes him strong enough to break adamantium? Based off of one statement and a edited comment on wikipedia that says "Hulk's strength is unlimited"? Seems legit.

I never stated that Iron Man was more durable than Hulk or Thor. I know Iron Man is less durable than them. You are trying to exaggerate my position to make me look like more of a fanboy than you and it's failing miserably.

Avatar image for noone301994
#84 Edited by Noone301994 (22169 posts) - - Show Bio

@whoisthebest: I'm saying that just because the Beyonder stated that, it doesn't make it the be-all and end-all of all other feats and statements. It's one statement. I'm not getting sucked into this with you again. This mini-disagreement is going to grow into a 5,000 word essay of you calling me a cowardly and pathetic liar just because you disagree with me. I'm done with you.

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#85 Posted by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone301994: Beyonder stated that. Someone else stated that his strength is incalculable. I provided the name of the guy in my other post. The fact that you take beyonder saying something so lightly again shows your bias. Beyonder isn't just some random guy, he's insanely powerful, insanely knowledgeable. If Beyonder said that, there is a huge amount of truth to it.

and regarding hulkbuster vs hulk in AOU, hulkbuster can knock out hulk as long as scarlet witch helps him out AND the hulk is calm. I wouldn't call that a win.

Avatar image for fifthchild
#86 Posted by Fifthchild (734 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild, @schwarz and @nomar

He is a troll or the biggest fanboy I have ever seen. @noone301994, @w0nd, myself and a few others are dealing with him in this thread. He pushes away facts, scans and logic with his emotions and then personally attacks with name calling. Be careful with this one....

Yeah I should have checked out ages ago. I kept meaning to but the combination of being called "a lying coward who lies" or whatever from someone who had very little knowledge or evidence beyond "a lot of people seem to think this" kept drawing me back.

Avatar image for ondskapt666
#87 Posted by Ondskapt666 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

@ondskapt666 said:

@fifthchild, @schwarz and @nomar

He is a troll or the biggest fanboy I have ever seen. @noone301994, @w0nd, myself and a few others are dealing with him in this thread. He pushes away facts, scans and logic with his emotions and then personally attacks with name calling. Be careful with this one....

Yeah I should have checked out ages ago. I kept meaning to but the combination of being called "a lying coward who lies" or whatever from someone who had very little knowledge or evidence beyond "a lot of people seem to think this" kept drawing me back.

I hear ya. ATM I'm being called a dick in another thread because I think Iron Man would own Joker but I'm the bad debater. lol

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#88 Edited by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@ondskapt666: @fifthchild:Don't get too excited over your guys' mutual hatred of me. These guys think hercules is stronger than Hulk and that Hulk can't possibly surpass him or match his strength.

They also think Ironman would never lose to Hulk or Thor if he "had an adamantium suit"

They also think Ironman can kill Hulk/Thor with his adamantium sentinels, sol's hammer, power drainer, or adamantium bullets.

Oh, also review their statements on the hulkbuster vs. Hulk AOU fight. Both of them think that hulkbuster knocked out an angry Hulk just because the Hulk's face looked angry for a split second.

Ironman fans love to lie. That's why they idolize a liar and a scammer. filthy scum.

Avatar image for ondskapt666
#89 Edited by Ondskapt666 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

@whoisthebest said:

@ondskapt666: @fifthchild:Don't get too excited over your guys' mutual hatred of me. These guys think hercules is stronger than Hulk and that Hulk can't possibly surpass him or match his strength.

They also think Ironman would never lose to Hulk or Thor if he "had an adamantium suit"

They also think Ironman can kill Hulk/Thor with his adamantium sentinels, sol's hammer, power drainer, or adamantium bullets.

Oh, also review their statements on the hulkbuster vs. Hulk AOU fight. Both of them think that hulkbuster knocked out an angry Hulk just because the Hulk's face looked angry for a split second.

Ironman fans love to lie. That's why they idolize a liar and a scammer. filthy scum.

If anyone with a brain searched our posts including yours, they will see the truth. Again, you are belittling us and also twisting our words.

Again, you still haven't proved how Hulk can overpower Hercules or Zeus. Zeus alone has already done it. I already shown you scans and facts but you push everything away because there is no more room here besides your one sided view.

We said with prep he can.

I'm actually huge fan of John Constantine before any other comic character. Again all you do is twist words, push away scans and facts because nothing can overcome your huge ego.

Stop wasting everyone's time and killing threads.

Avatar image for whoisthebest
#90 Posted by whoisthebest (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@ondskapt666: I never said Hulk can OVERPOWER Hercules or Zeus you insane , pathetic dishonest coward why is it so hard for you to debate without resorting to lying?

I said the Hulk has the potential to meet or surpass Hercules strength. I don't know how Zeus works so I can't say anything there. It's very clear Zeus is far, far more powerful than Hulk in numerous ways. The Hulk couldn't beat him even if he matched his strength. physical strength is not the same as being powerful.

Hulk could exceed Thor's strength but Thor would still be more powerful. Why is it so hard for you to comprehend such a simple topic? Why and when would I ever claim that the Hulk can overpower Zeus? pathetic coward.

you said "with prep" he could. when asked to go into detail, you clarified that Ironman's sentinels, sol's hammer, adamantium bullets, or power drainer could kill Hulk/Thor. None of those things could.

Again the beyonder stated the Hulk is the strongest. If you paid any attention at all to the marvel world, being strong is not the same as being powerful. If that was true the Thing would always beat people smaller/weaker than him. being strong simply means lifting strength and possibly punch strength. go take a look at odin or zeus abilities. it wouldn't make a difference how strong the Hulk got if he was facing someone like Zeus or Odin.

Avatar image for jedixman
#91 Posted by JediXMan (42893 posts) - - Show Bio

@ondskapt666: I never said Hulk can OVERPOWER Hercules or Zeus you insane , pathetic dishonest coward why is it so hard for you to debate without resorting to lying?

Is it so hard to debate without resorting to petty insults?

Locking this thread. Nothing good is coming of it.

Moderator

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.