@bezza: Sometimes I don't understand why characters like Kurse, Juggernaut, Thanos etc are allowed to get away with tagging speedsters like Superman, Flash etc on the Vine but Hulk doesn't

Sometimes I see those who do support Hulk against Superman despite the kryptonian's speed advantage, don't support Hulk against Kurse, Thanos etc despite neither having a speed advantage over him

There's just a lack of consistency between different users on who they choose to favor in a fight or not

@underdogsupporter:

Yep and not to forget Darkseid who has given Superman some huge beatings but has no speed to speak of and of course I always go back to Mongul who gives superman a great scrap and again can't fly and isn't a speedster. If those characters can tag superman, so can Hulk. Personally I don't put Hulk in the Thanos or Galactus class although I am hoping Jim Starlin will allow him to at least get some shots in on Thanos on the current arc. Not that hopeful however as Issue 1 was a bit rubbish IMO.

Of course its all down to opinions at the end of the day as Hulk and Superman will never meet in a canon story. The crossovers were all fan voted I believe, so were skewed to meet the wishes of the fans. Hence why Batman was able to wind the Hulk in that early crossover which is just ridiculous. Batman kicking the Hulk would be like him kicking a hummer, he would just bounce off!

@bezza: Well honestly speaking, Darkseid does have some speed showings that place him well into the microsecond reaction range but I see your point.

Regardless of how Jim Starlin's story goes, I have doubts that it'll make Hulk more respected. I wouldn't be surprised if haters on the Vine cried PIS if Hulk even remotely does good against Thanos.

Hulk has met Gladiator and Hyperion who I think are pretty close to Superman.

If you thought Batman beating Hulk in a non-canon comic was bad, Captain America beat Hulk in a canon comic. I think that's worse for sure.

Looks like someone's jimmies are rustled.

Don't worry he has what it takes to beat them I agree and of course they dont stomp him...but he is out of his league dealing with some of these characters.

I disagree Alot of them physically are near his level. Strength and Reslience wont get you far when thats all you have s has been proven with Superman vs Doomsday since the DOS story arc. Superman learned that physically DD might have a slight edge but with all of his other power DD stands no chance. As shown in Superman vol 2 #175 the 100th issue anniversary of the DOS. if alot of these charaers really wanted to the fight could end before it starts via energy drain, blitz, telepathic lockdown, bfr, KO etc i they were in that bloodlusted mindset some of them HUlk wouldn't even be able to see.

I dont want to continue this further as i's pointless. I agree Hulk is a physical beast and has what it takes to hang with alot of those characters but he is not on their level. Hes a top tier Brick, Powerhouse, Tank etc but not Herald Level end of story.

Peace brah :)

Whatever. More assumptions than anything else. It proves and means nothing to me and everyone else. Hulk, Thor, Superman are of the same ultra elite powerclass. They're capable of going all-out against one another, stalemate, and defeat one another any day of the week regardless of how diverse their powersets are.

Where are @jaxthejester_2014, @dum529001, @theacidskull, and @raynorj when you need them?

You saying "end of story" is a meaningless statement. When Hulk has proven to defeat many of those on your list as well as win in CAV's against some he never fought in comics. I dunno what your arbitrary idea of a herald level character is, but casually destroying planets and it's adjacent moons without even trying to puts Hulk in that category IMO, especially seeing as it's a better feat than what most of the characters from your list have done.

Not to mention killing millions of Mindless Ones, Demons, Trolls, Monsters, Dark Sorceress Umar (a Sky-Father level mystical being), Lord Armageddon (a High-Herald level being who defeated Professor Hulk & Silver Surfer simultaneously, had a rematch with a pissed & blood-lusted Surfer in the same issue and came out unscathed) Bi-Beast & the Original Wendigo (High-End Bricks who fought Savage Hulk & Thor), an amped Fin Fang Foom (who was stated being capable of conquering a planet solo in that) without touching them and threatening to destroy the entire Dark Dimension over & over again for all eternity.

That's Hulk unleashed. :)

Name some of those characters you think he could beat. It's certainly not Thor, Superman, SIlver Surfer, Gladiator, Flash, Martian Manhunter etc

That's a certain version of Hulk. WWHulk which I already agreed was a low level herald. But thats 1 incarnation compared to the dozen others. The only other one on that level was Maestro. So thats 2/roughly 12. So majority goes with High Level Brick, Tank, Powerhouse etc not on the level of Herald.

A Herald level being is someone who is extremely powerful, versatile, has enormous physical power, extreme speed and versatility and being capable of doing things the likes of which are mind boggling. (travelling FTL, shattering planets,pulling planets, flying through multpile blackholes, travelling through time, sealing a fissure in he universe etc). There are different tiers of Herald level characters. HIgh, Mid and Low. WWHulk and Meastro Hulk would at most be low level heralds end of discussion.

Well he already beat guys like Thor and Gladiator, apart from that the others on your make believe list that he CAN defeat are Superman, Sentry, Nova, Beta Ray Bill, Marvel Now Hyperion, Ronan, Black Adam, Shazam, Wonder Woman, Terrax.

So? Are we not allowed to use certain versions of Hulk? It's just a really really angry Hulk. Also the way you rank certain things makes me think you really don't know much about the Hulk. Like you are aware that WWH and WBH are not the same thing? Also Maestro is very lacking on the feats, i dunno why you put him so high.

Your version of a herald is your own subjective idea of it. There are beings that don't have most of those things you mentioned but are near omnipotent like Molecule Man. Versatility is not the be all end all of things. If Hulk has more physical strength then pretty much any of the people you mentioned, if he has as much if not more durability, amazing healing factor and the ability to put out omnidirectional gamma bursts that can decimate a planet and incinerate countless beings on it then yea he can be considered even high herald by that standard. And there you go with that meaningless statement again, you really don't learn don't you?

His fight agains Glads was PIS. Thor has taken him out a plethora of times also. Sperman cuts out the part of his brain that makes him turn into Hulk, Sentry dematerializes him, Nova flies to the sun FTL then flies back FTL and obliterates Hulk, MN Hyperion already beat him, BRB just ports him to the sun. I could go on but I've already done this to death.

No it's not. It's a completely different side of his personality. Along with Dog Green, Savage, Gravage, Mindless, Merged, Professor etc. WBH is just a ticked of WWHulk that is clear. He killed most of the heroes in his world and stomped Merged Hulk who has the strength of Savage Hulk and a young Meastro stalemated a WM Thor, Tanked a Nuke and if you count Doc Greens feats as well, Took Rulks best shots, was barely hurt by RSHulks attack, stomped Skaar, overpowered Abomb and healed himself from nothing but bones.

Hey look you can argue it all you want but im done. I've argued this to death no need to drag it further. Lets agree to disagree.

Peace brah

I disagree, if what I've heard is true he used to be the equivalent of sentry this time last year, so he's gained tins of respect. Not to mention he beat freaking Wonder Woman in the battle of the week, and red hulk is beating aquaman in the polls now.

I'd say he's gained massive respect on the vine. Aside from a few *ahem* people, Most people aknowledge how powerful he is.

Seriously though, it's things like saying 'hulk can beat thanos!' That ticks people off, seeing as he wouldn't stand a chance in hell at doing that.

So you are now the arbiter of PIS? What about his fight with Gladiator was PIS? No one says Thor hasn't taken him out as well, the point still stands that they both beat each other in the past. Superman doesn't cut his brain, so silly. Just how Sentry dematerialized WWH or Red Hulk? Oh no wait he got his ass kicked because stable minded Sentry get's overrated and has nothing to do with Void Sentry. The Nova thing is the funniest one so far, i can count all the times Nova(and others that can fly with FTL) has done such a feat not to mention if he was already FTL why would he need to go to the Sun first? To get momentum lol. MN Hyperion did not beat him, what comic did you read that from? Yea open up a portal and push the Hulk in like Thor did with Uriel, i see no problems there, Hulk will go willingly herp-derp. No please do go on, this is quite amusing.

The persona Green Scar is a different side of him, the WBH power levels is not something that only that particular persona can achieve. WBH is WWH that doesn't hold back anymore. We do not know who Maestro killed, as far as we know they could have all died in the nuclear war. Doc Green is not Maestro.

It's a shame just how much people underrate Hulk on this forums. Every time Hulk beats a guy in a cape it must be PIS, sigh...

@thedailybagel said:

What do you disagree with? Hulk is still underrated on the battle forums. You of all people should know that. Anything amazing Hulk ever does gets automatically thought of as PIS in the eyes of 90% of the Vine.

What's wrong with Hulk beating Thanos besides having a reputation to protect? Hulk can beat Thanos just like Thanos can beat Hulk, whether its a majority or not, its by no means a stomp against Hulk.

Hulk could beat Thanos if the circumstances were right, but Thanos is supposed to be a team buster, someone who can tangle with the likes of Galactus and beat down Thor and Silver Surfer, which is why Hulk fans like me and Dailybagel have issues with a Hulk v Thanos fight.

I also think Superman shouldn't beat Darkseid.

But yeah Hulk is under-rated, as evidenced by the posts on this page alone, the comment above made me laugh suggesting Hulk isn't a planet buster like some characters - really? Wasn't WWH breaking up the eastern seaboard just with a few footsteps? Didn't WBH destroy a planet due to the energy he was giving off?

People just need to accept that Hulk, Superman and Thor are all in the same class and deal with it.

@bezza

Well to be fair, Hulk is also a team buster too. Thanos only tangles with Galactus because Jim Starlin allows it, plus Hulk has beaten down Thor and Silver Surfer before too. I don't get why people think losing to Hulk is so embarrassing though. If Thor and Thanos make a mockery of Galactus, people are fine but when Hulk does the same to Thor, Thanos or Galactus it's automatically PIS while everyone else gets away with doing it. It's just not fair.

The only trouble he may have is with speed and that's where a speedster's argument comes in. It is generally said, Hulk has the ability to overpower anyone given the right conditions. He has a counter for pretty much everything as shown over the years such as draining, transmutation, mind control and many others, however against opponents with no speed advantage Hulk still gets underrated heavily against the likes of Thanos or Kurse who's speed is inferior to Hulk's which is what disturbs me most of the time. Given Hulk's ferocity, defenses and never-give-up attitude, no opponent that isn't abstract should stomp him, even if he lacks versatility among them.

I don't have a problem with Hulk losing, its just how he's viewed by others in the battle forums and then there's the issue of consistency between them. Certain users would side with Hulk against certain characters such as Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern or Darkseid, but when the time calls for them to support Hulk again, they turn a blind eye when that character is Dr Doom, Thor, Silver Surfer or Thanos. This only shows that Hulk is used for nothing more than a tool to drag others down while he's being kept down himself. Winning and losing is part of life, but being called a loser you're whole life is just wrong.

On further note, I'd personally put Hulk in a class of his own. He easily fluctuates between levels. He may be all brute force but its been shown in comics before that brute force characters can hang with higher tiers.

Life isn't fair. I'm convinced that a vast majority of the people on this board know that Hulk is on the same level as Thor and company, they just choose not to believe it. I've read some of the best and most well thought out arguments from @jaxthejester_2014 -- and even those couldn't convince people on this site.

In the ongoing Avengers book, Hulk has some of the best showings on a team that includes Thor and Hyperion...

Slightly off topic, but has anyone seen the new funko pops for Avengers 2? Looks like we're getting a live action grey Hulk.

Hulk has fought all manner of super-beings and foes who were not lacking in any category of ability you mentioned and he was never at a disadvantage.

People have seen the Hulk fighting people of all kinds but cry PIS(Plot induced Stupidity) or start lowballing because the truth is that Hulk's power has no end and a lot of characters can't really beat him.

@dum529001: I did? Well, what I see in battle forums especially when Hulk goes against flying bricks is the "Hulk is slow" argument as the main reason for his loss. Unfortunately there's no consistency with such arguments because the same people also think Thor, Kurse, Thanos can also beat Hulk despite having no speed advantage whatsoever. You see where I'm getting at?

Thanos would likely beat Hulk simply because he has an overall powerset above Hulk's level, so speed doesn't come into it.

Sure Hulk is a team buster, but he hasn't fought and held his own with someone like Odin, as Thanos has, or almost beaten the Surfer to death with a few punches. In fact, I can't actually recall a canon win for Hulk v the Surfer, unless you count the one in Planet Hulk where he pummelled a distracted Surfer who was shown to be unharmed after the pummelling.

So whilst I absolutely agree that Hulk has no limits and potentially can beat almost anyone, Thanos has showings that in my mind would give him the win.

Having said that, I have loved some of Hulk's battles against various teams, the one v the West Coast Avengers in Hulk # 316 being a favourite!

tell us, why do you hate Thor?

@cgoodness: He is the most overrated and most over-hyped character next to Thanos .

Nope ! The Hulk is one of the most overrated character of all comics . Juggernaut > The Hulk .

I see we got another troll in the hulk thread. Do you really have to say the same thing in 2 different threads. lol

@bezza: Writers have explained why the Flash gets tagged by low tier and slow characters, it’s to make the story interesting. They’ve stated that in theory he’d be able to run through his opponents in a nanosecond but that makes the story uninteresting and the only one who would be able to keep up would be another speedster. But having a speedster fight a speedster all the time would be repetitive like the first three seasons of the tv show. So they give him slower opponents and nerf his speed for plot reasons, so really any time Flash is having a hard time with someone he should easily beat... its PIS. And this is coming from the writers.

He is rated just fine IMO, except that certain viners like to lowball his feats.

@cognitive: And some hate him for no reason. And there are some those who hate him for beating their favourites