Hulk needs Respect

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Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Goliath Problems

The Incredible Hulk is one of the 3 most popular superheroes of Marvel. A step above Wolverine and a step below Spider-man and the respect each character receives in the wider public is relative to one another in this order. Unfortunately the lack of respect or worse, the amount of disrespect Hulk gets here on the Vine is just sad. Long story short Hulk is just underrated and it needs to stop.

Sometimes I don't understand the hate the jolly green giant seems to be attracting. Sure he looks intimidating and reminds you of your high school bully but his morals are actually in the right place. I admit there are times in comics when Hulk is being a jerk and I do wish such moments never happened because it doesn't portray the character properly. All Hulk wants is to be left alone and live peacefully, but fear and prejudice is what gets him in trouble at times which is why he has so much stress that needs to be let out at the right time.

Complaints in the Battle Forums

Now on to the main idea of this blog. Hulk is a character that gets labeled as "overrated" on the Vine's battle forums. While that may be the case elsewhere on other sites such as YouTube, on CV it's a completely different story. After doing much research on this site, Hulk just doesn't fit that label at all. In fact it's completely the opposite, Hulk is actually underrated. Worse, the blame gets shifted to his supporters though I'll discuss this below. Here are some of the common complaints or mishaps about the Hulk that I see a lot of in the battle forums.

Hulk has Unlimited Strength

One thing people don't like to hear is the word "unlimited" or "limitless" or "infinite". Hulk fans say he has unlimited strength, others say he doesn't and the majority of users are with the "others" unfortunately. They say it's hyperbole and that Hulk has no feats to back up the statement, the supporters use consistent feats of Hulk's ongoing success rate but somehow it isn't enough. This leads to frustration, repetition and insults on both fronts. So who's right and who's wrong. Truth be told, neither is right or wrong. Hulk doesn't exactly have unlimited strength, because unlimited is impossible for a sentient being that starts off at a limit, however Hulk does have that potential for unlimited strength. His strength level is in accordance to his temper such that he becomes stronger and stronger the madder he gets which begs the question of Hulk's rage. Is it unlimited? We don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Unlimited rage may seem impossible but don't forget, this is comics. If his rage is limited, Hulk still has a long way to reach that limit which is why his strength seems limitless. If Hulk did have unlimited rage I believe the rate at which his strength rises would gradually slow down but still keep going in the form of a logarithmic curve. Hulk doesn't have unlimited strength but if you were to find his absolute maximum strength level, it couldn't be done. One of the biggest misunderstandings is that when "Hulk has unlimited strength" it is automatically believed he has such strength to begin with, though he doesn't, rather than "Hulk has unlimited strength eventually". In conclusion Hulk can't have unlimited strength but he doesn't have a limit to his strength either. Hulk just has that potential for it just like a selected few characters such as Superman.

Hulk is too Slow

When people say Hulk is too slow, it's not really a fair statement. They say Hulk can't tag anyone fast though it largely depends on who Hulk's opponent is, if its the Flash, then there's no hope. If Flash is in full motion Hulk wouldn't see him let alone hit him but that doesn't mean Hulk is slow, just that Flash is too simply fast for him. One of the biggest reasons people think Hulk can't win is because of his true lack of speed and whenever he tags someone fast, it's automatically regarded as PIS. Hulk has tagged the likes of Quicksilver and even Silver Surfer all of whom are very fast in travel and whenever you like it or not it still happened in the comics. In order to defend Hulk from other fast characters such as Superman or Wonder Woman, these "PIS" showings get used and brings upon hatred for the Hulk simply because the majority on the Vine don't like it, which is sadly disappointing. People may not like it that Hulk is tagging one of the fastest comic characters but Hulk isn't slow when it comes to combat speed, in fact he's fast enough to compete with Silver Surfer who's past track record shows he can't maintain his "combat speed" for long. So whether he can tag someone like Superman or not, Hulk's showings against other fast characters aren't PIS.

Hulk is too One Dimensional

The major reason Hulk seems to suffer losses in the battle forums is his lack of superpowers. Hulk is purely a brute, with great stats, sufficient healing and decent speed to compete with most non-abstracts or so it seems. Too much have I heard people say "Hulk is non-factor" or "Hulk is useless" because he lacks versatility or is too dumb. News flash people! Hulk doesn't need versatility, just raw power. The fact Hulk lacks versatility means less time thinking of what to do and more time putting pressure on the opponent. Hulk isn't stupid either. While he is usually portrayed like that outside of comics, Hulk has demonstrated great intelligence especially with Doc Green plus the Green Goliath doesn't have a crappy win loss record despite his lack of superpowers.

Hulk is full of PIS

Most frustrating of all is that "haters" claim Hulk's feats are PIS. When Hulk does something amazing, people don't like it. When Hulk beats up a more powerful character or as better success than other characters, people just hate it. When Hulk is able to develop a new superpower, people hate the character even more, however other characters such as Silver Surfer and Thanos are allowed to safely pass through airport security without hassles. When Hulk cracks Onslaught's armor, guess what? Hulk isn't some loser that shouldn't be doing stuff he "can't" do. He does it because he has to. If Hulk had to save a civilian from a falling building he can and will do it, you don't need Thor or Hyperion to do that job. Furthermore it's disrespectful to know that "Hulk is a joke" and that losing him is humiliating. If Zeus lost a fight to Thanos, its perfectly fine but if Zeus lost a fight to Hulk, people start complaining all the nonsense they possibly can.

Where Hulk stands in a fight

Now let's get the message. Hulk isn't unbeatable, he isn't invincible, he isn't absolutely immortal. If he were to fight someone like Superman, he can and has what it takes to beat him but he'll lose more times than not, there is no stomping going on. In fact there really isn't any character who can stomp Hulk outside of abstracts. To stomp the Hulk would mean to mop the floor with him easily no matter how hard he tries, maybe ignore him completely but Hulk isn't easily ignored. Silver Surfer has had to drain Hulk to keep himself safe, Thanos has admitted to not wanting to confront the Hulk, Zeus has had to exert his lightning bolts upon Hulk to keep him down, Thor has had to cut loose to even come close to killing him. None of the scenarios mentioned have showed a stomp in favor against Hulk. None. Given the right conditions Hulk can win a majority against anyone in a fight. He isn't some joke and can give anyone including sky-fathers a run for their money. Realistically speaking I highly doubt Odin can simply sit his ass on his throne, doing nothing and letting a raging World Breaker Hulk go near him. Unless you are a character who is immune from physical force, you aren't entirely safe from Hulk.

So who is to blame?

So why the Hulk hate? It's never to do with the comics themselves is it? Worse it's the blame game on the fans of the Green Goliath. Hulk fans are known to be repeatedly attacked by other users and consequently given a bad reputation on the Vine. The so-called "fanboys ruined him" is just cliched. Sure you can blame the Hulk supporters, but other characters have "fanboys" too and they also ruin their character, take a look at Storm or Captain America. Truthfully speaking the blame game can't be applied anymore to Hulk fans. Hulk fans aren't as frequent in the battle forums and are seen hanging out more in the Hulk forums than sticking up for their favorite green buddy on the battle lines but why is that? You want to know why? It's because of the harassment they get from other people, the labeling, the numbers just intimidate them. People waiting to lash out at anyone who dares say "Hulk can physically overpower a celestial". It's just sickening.

So where does the blame go to? Other users blame "Hulk fanboys" but who do the "Hulk fanboys" blame? The biggest blames I see are aimed at "DC fanboys" but is this really fair? No. "Marvel character vs DC character" battles are always going to end up with users choosing one company over the other. "DC fanboys" choosing Superman over Hulk is to be expected. In fact Hulk gets underrated more by the Marvel side than he does the DC side. Obviously the Marvel side would favor Hulk over Superman or Wonder Woman or Darkseid but what happens between Hulk and Thor or Hulk and Gladiator or Hulk and Thanos? What happens when it becomes a "Marvel character vs Marvel character" battle? You see what I mean?

Hulk needs respect

Much research and analysis shows Hulk isn't entirely hated but he is underrated. He lacks respect on the Vine, his feats are disregarded as PIS, his theories and ideals attacked and his place in a team automatically becomes a non-factor when there are herald type characters around. Hulk's comic story shows he isn't some chump that can't beat Thanos because he can! He may lose a majority but at least Thanos knows he can't go easy on him. Hulk is truly a force to be reckoned with and he should get anyone that isn't abstract off their backside when he means business. What Hulk does may not seem realistic and impossible, but that's what he's all about. Breaking limits and achieving the impossible. After all Hulk is strongest one there is!

Hulk needs and deserves respect. Agree or disagree? Let me know with your comments below.

Thank you all for reading. Kind Regards from the Underdog Supporter :)

See my next blog on Batman

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#1 Posted by TheBlondeGod (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@underdogsupporter: Is the Hulk-hate that strong? It's not that I'm oblivious but really is it that too much?

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#2 Edited by Cream_God (15519 posts) - - Show Bio

Ill crack a joke or 2 when Hulk fans start overrating him (or really when any fanbase does) but ya I do agree he can get underestimated by individuals at times especially when hes up against a character with a big fanbase (though that also happens to a lot of characters)

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#3 Edited by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@theblondegod: In my personal opinion, it isn't too severe but noticeable enough especially if you're a Hulk fan. He isn't much hated as he is underrated due to his lack of versatility, which shouldn't matter. Hulk defenders used to be fierce on the battle forums but lately not many are on the battle lines anymore, no disrespect to them. Back in the days Hulk used to be able to give any character a run for their money, on the Vine and in the comics themselves but nowadays even a "Hulk vs Thor" battle is considered spite with the vast numbers of users backing the opponent.

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#4 Edited by TheBlondeGod (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@underdogsupporter: I'm not in your shoes but I think I know feeling when your fav character is underrated, but you see the capabilities of characters just really depends on what are its powers and its extent. It just takes a good reason to defend Hulk or may it be someone else. ^^

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#5 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@theblondegod: True. While I am willing to be Hulk's lawyer and defend him if needed, I'm not much of a debater and prefer not to waste my time arguing over fictional character fights unless there's something that hasn't been addressed properly. I can only be the Gandhi for Hulk.

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#6 Posted by TheBlondeGod (2845 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@underdogsupporter: I most definitely agree that Hulk needs and deserves some major respect. I think the problem is people fail to realize that-- like Thor, Superman, Silver Surfer, Shazam-- Hulk is one of the most powerful heroic beings in all comics. And I know for a fact that he's the physically most powerful being in comics.

He's one of the big guns. He can do the incredible, achieve the impossible. He's one of the few heroes who is capable of taking on high-end villains on caliber of Darkseid or Thanos or Doomsday or Mangog 1-on-1 and not only manage to hold his own but even defeat them. He's also more than infinite power/strength/rage incarnate. Could you imagine if Hulk would be able to manifest/harness his infinite power potential into other abilities than strength?

Is he unbeatable? No, he isn't. No character in comics is truly unbeatable. Even beings of vast, infinite might like Galactus, the Celestials, Eternity, Death, Infinity, and Oblivion can possibly be defeated... if one introduces a major plot-device. People just need to accept the fact that Hulk is not only the Strongest One There is, but one of the most powerful heroic beings there is in all comics. And they better just shut up and deal with it.

'Nuff said. :)

Cheers, mate!

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#8 Edited by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes Hulk needs more respect. Let me put my cards on the table here, I am a huge fan of a number of DC characters - growing up in the 70s, Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman were what introduced me to comic book characters, but the Hulk came along on TV in the 70s too and I have been a lifelong fan. Possibly because he does get detractors and also because I relate to his anger management issues, he is in fact my favourite character of all. However many of my fellow DC fans, mainly those of a Superman following persuasion really do not afford the Hulk proper respect, dismissing him due to a lack of versatility and in their eyes speed. These people really are the main reason the Hulk is ridiculed on here, because hard core DC fans DO outnumber hardcore marvel fans and the DC guys tend to pop over here for, basically a pop, whereas Hulk fans tend to stay away from the Superman/Wonder Woman forums.

Well my friends, the Hulk has been around over 50 years and during that time has gone toe to toe with Thor, Sentry, Silver Surfer and the other marvel powerhouses, generally only having major trouble with the Surfer due to his unique energy siphoning abilities. He has held his own against multiple super powered opponents and his only major KO in recent times against a regular Marvel powerhouse was when he submitted himself to taking a whopping beating by Zeus. This is an encounter referred to often by Superman fans, who conveniently ignore the fact that the Hulk DID NOT FIGHT BACK!

Anyway, I continue to love reading Superman, Flash, Shazam, Silver Surfer, Green Lantern and HULK stories and he definitely earns his place amongst those characters in terms of power.

As for battle forums, I gave up on them as its just a waste of time.

..but keep the faith fellow Hulk fans, he does have a devoted fan base on CV.

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#9 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenscar1990: Thank you.

One of the biggest problems Hulk seems to face on the Vine is the idea of absolute win between characters. People will always think when one character wins a fight it is a 10/10 win or a stomp. "Hulk vs Odin" is one such example. People ignore win majorities and make battles seem completely one-sided which almost never favors the Hulk at all. In the end Hulk isn't someone to be taken lightly of as most users on the Vine seem to have put him at.

Another problem is the "feats" rule which limits the Hulk on where his power levels stand to what he could do in the long run, given the time. People don't seem to understand is that Hulk's power levels aren't constant but keep fluctuating, increasing, rising to greater limits which is why people don't seem to consider Hulk of being at herald level or above and just limit him to superhuman level.

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#10 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza: To be fair, Hulk gets dismissed and ridiculued from the Marvel side too a lot more especially when his opponent is Thor, Silver Surfer, Sentry, Gladiator, Hyperion or Dr Strange etc

I think because "Hulk vs Thor" or "Hulk vs Juggernaut" are such big debates in Marvel, it doesn't translate well to "Hulk vs Superman" which seems to be a problem in most cases, DC sees Marvel having a struggle between who is Marvel's top heavyweight such that only he should challenge someone like Superman.

Truthfully Hulk's never been stomped by anyone. Silver Surfer was also having trouble with him and had to depower Hulk in order to win, even then it took some time, otherwise Norrin likely would lose in the long run. Zeus actually had to exert his lightning bolts at Hulk otherwise I don't think Zeus could just sit his ass down comfortably.

People have a bad way of limiting Hulk to who he can and can not beat, most users wouldn't allow him to beat Silver Surfer or Thanos but are comfortable with him beating Thor, Superman and anyone along those lines only. This seems to be the case for the Hulk debaters of today, settling for a limited target and not really willingly to stick up for Hulk against Thanos or beyond. No disrespect to them though.

You should check out my lists if you want

Thank you.

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#11 Posted by HULKSMASHLITTLEMAN (168 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor fanboys and superman fans are disrespecting him . They even picked Batman over the Hulk lol

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#12 Posted by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@underdogsupporter: Hulk, regardless of incarnation, should never be underestimated by anyone. Even the less powerful Joe Fixit/Gray Hulk shattered an asteroid that was twice the size of Earth in but a single blow and he was relatively calm while performing it.

Another misconception is Hulk's anger to power/strength ratio. Some people think it takes him a long time to reach insane levels of power, but in fact it takes only mere moments/seconds for him to become insanely powerful. beyond comprehension. A good example would be when, in a calm state, the Savage Hulk resisted and overpowered enough force to change the orbit of a planet that the vastly powerful cosmic being the Stranger wielded against the Hulk in an attempt to restrain him. They also fail to add in that Banner/Hulk hold back and limit themselves for a reason, especially if they're on Earth.

As I've said before, people have to accept the fact that Hulk is not only the physically strongest being in comics, but also one of the most powerful heroic beings in comics. He's a high-end herald level being. They just need to shut up and deal with it. And they also have to learn that a more diverse powerset doesn't mean superiority or even guarantee victory in any senese. Quality over quantity, if you will.

This particular thread is an excellent source of information regarding Hulk's power/strength. I highly suggest checking it out.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/hulk-187/w...redible-749271/

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#13 Edited by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmashlittleman: I think those are just jokes. Truthfully Hulk gets disrespected by all kinds of non-fans, especially the higher up the character is on the power scale. At a certain point Hulk starts getting treated as a joke to certain characters, the Vine community just puts that bar too low.

Some users are just messed up in who they pick to win a fight. Hulk is being used by the Vine community as more of a tool to put shame on another another only to be shamed upon later on. If you stick around the Vine long enough, you'd know it isn't a fair place for everyone.

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#15 Posted by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio

@underdogsupporter:

fair point, Thor fans being some of the worse, even though the evidence of 50 years of Thor v Hulk battles is there to show that Thor rarely gets the upper hand, most of their fights ending in draws. Thor fans tend to trot out the "holding back" excuse which doesn't cut it for me I am afraid!

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#16 Posted by Lvenger (36350 posts) - - Show Bio

He's a high-end herald level being

It's comments like this which give decent Hulk fans a bad name.

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#17 Edited by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

He's a high-end herald level being

It's comments like this which give decent Hulk fans a bad name.

Oh, so it's okay for you to boast that Superman & Thor are herald level beings, yet if Hulk is considered of the same power league/class, which he indeed is of the same power class as beings like Thor & Superman, it's totally wrong? That's pretty damn biased and hypocritical if you ask me.

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#18 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by Claymore1998 (16541 posts) - - Show Bio

Very interesting read

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#20 Posted by w0nd (6804 posts) - - Show Bio

The hulk is still their big gun, even with thors, blue marvels and hyperions are around, they still treat hulk as their big gun. He gets a lot of respect. The issue with hulk is there are so many versions of him and some people never factor that in. They assume it will be 100% hulk 24/7. hulk has been beaten up before, but he's also done the beating as well...like any character

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#21 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Really? Wolverine might be more popular than Hulk between hardcore comic readers but to the general public Hulk outshines Wolverine by a mile.

Hulk is very popular amongst kids and youths. Wolverine probably appeals to older readers. Kids are more likely to shout "Hulk Smash" than "Bub"

Every Halloween when kids dress up as superheroes I see more Hulks than Wolverines. As a matter of fact I've never seen a Wolverine during Halloween at all.

The shopping catalogues rarely show any Wolverine items, Hulk items are there alongside Iron Man and Spiderman items. The shopping sells way more Hulk merchandise than Wolverine ones.

The 2012 Avengers movie outsold any of the X-Men films by more than double. Everyone I knew was more excited about the Avengers than X-Men, Hulk being the center of attention of the main team, most anticipated for people and most memorable. To this day people are still talking about Avengers and looking forward to its sequel. X-Men DOFP got forgotten.

@greenscar1990: Nice link. If only it were in a more public area. The Hulk forums rarely get visitors to see this these days to see that link.

@bezza: The major problem between people is consistency. If people are willing to say "Hulk beats Superman', then why not "Hulk beats Gladiator" or "Hulk beats Hyperion"? They are bound to this poor equation

Marvel character > Hulk > DC equivalent of Marvel character

In no way should Hulk be in between. Certain users would use Hulk as an excuse to beat some character but are will say Hulk stands no chance against another. Which shows the lack of respect for Hulk and viewing him as only a tool to be used. It's the way Hulk is viewed in a fight which has become an issue.


@claymore1998: Thank you. Cheers :D

@w0nd: True. Hulk isn't perfect but he isn't a mess either. I don't mind Hulk losing, it's just how he's viewed in a fight. People consider him a "joke" or a "complete non-factor" which disappoints me. There's a fine difference between "Superman beats Hulk" and "Superman beats Hulk easily". Never in the history of comics has Hulk ever been beaten easily whether it's Thanos or Zeus or anyone up there.

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#22 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

@underdogsupporter: you use the avnegers as a hulk movie? It sold beacuse it was the avengers and the first big team up of the MCU, hulk got given two chances at a solo film and both flopped, wolverine has been the flagship character in all xmen movies and had two to himself all have been commercially successful, wolverine was in litterly every single marvel book all his solos outsell hulks by a HUGE margin even when he's dead the legacy of wolverine ongoing sells ALOT more than the on going hulk issues

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#23 Edited by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Well Hulk was the most anticipated and most memorable of the Avengers team. In comics Wolverine probably has this but to the wider general public, people know more about Hulk than they do Wolverine. Even in TV shows and animated films, Hulk gets more exposed than Wolverine. Hulk appears in "Wolverine and the X-Men", "Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes", "Avengers Assemble", "Iron Man Armored Adventures", "Hulk vs Wolverine", "Hulk vs Thor", "Planet Hulk", "Ultimate Avengers", "Iron Man and Hulk Heroes United", "Marvel Disk Wars The Avengers", "Next Avengers Heroes of Tomorrow", "Ultimate Spiderman", "Hulk and the Agents of Smash", "Fantastic Four World's Greatest Heroes" and probably more. How many has Wolverine appeared in during the more recent years?

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#24 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

@underdogsupporter: but the thingg is hulks always a supporting role in most of the things he's in and wolverine has outsold him in both solo movies and comics so I don't get why your clutching at straws and naming cameao apperances in animated films and TV hulk may be popular with the under 10s but with mainstream audience wolverine takes it

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#25 Edited by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: I don't what's up with that, the Hulk trailers didn't get as much hype as the Wolverine trailers unfortunately. In a global sense, a random person in India or Zimbabwe or Uruguay or Cuba or Slovenia or New Zealand is likely to know Hulk a lot better than Wolverine. Hulk is after all much more influential than you might think.

On YouTube, even on Fanboy Faceoff Videos, the Avengers proved more popular then the X-Men with Hulk and Wolverine leading both teams, some daresay Hulk could solo. In other videos Thor beat Wolverine with 54% votes. Thor also beat Superman with 51% votes meaning Superman would've beat Wolverine with some amount of votes because the Thor and Superman fans were much closer than in contrast to Thor and Wolverine. Hulk beat Superman with 55% of the votes showing Hulk is more popular than Thor when it comes to beating Superman. This shows Hulk is more popular than Wolverine, and this is a FANBOY FACEOFF after all.

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#26 Edited by iknowwhoyouare (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

At first, I thought this blog was just a load of bull

Great points made, I'm now convinced Hulk is underrated

Can't wait til your next blog

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#27 Posted by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk is actually very popular in the bodybuilding community. I see some people trying to convince us that Hulk lovers are 10 or under kids wich is pure filthy garbage of lowballers who try to look objective but basically are haters.

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#28 Posted by Lvenger (36350 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: I'm not the one overrating my favourite characters into power levels they don't possess. Thor and Superman are not Herald level beings in my book, same as Hulk, and would lose hard to most of the Heralds except for Terrax and Nova. The aforementioned user has a particular reputation on these parts and misuses the term Herald to overrate his favourite character's power level demonstrating that he has no idea what the term 'Herald Power Level' means.

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#29 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4729 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I understand. Actually Superman and Thor are generally perceived as herald level being and have the feats to back it up. While Hulk may have the physicals to hang with the best of them he just isn't all that powerful. At best he's low level herald and at most high level brick/power house.

Just that you 2 have gotten on a little too heated debates before no need to make this messy. Don't like each other ignore each other. Even if he is kinda wrong there is no need for this to become a spat.

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#30 Posted by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: And Hulk doesn't have the feats to back up and prove that he is indeed of a high-herald level being and of the same power class that beings like Superman, Thor, and the Silver Surfer are? I'm not wrong, 'cause there is definitely plenty of feats to back me up on it. You and Lvenger don't agree with me? Fine, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong in any sense.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People have to accept the fact that the Hulk is not only the Strongest One There is, but also that he's one of the most powerful heroic beings there is in all of comics.

Deal with it.

'Nuff said.

Cheers!

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#31 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4729 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenscar1990: He doesn't. As I stated above he had the physicals to hang with them but that's it. He has no way to counteract anything else they throw at him. He would essentially get wrecked. No way around. Only Maestro and WWH may be up in Low Level Herald territory but that's it. Dont make your character seem bigger than he is.

Keep in mind I'm not a blind Superman/Thor fanboy. Hulk is my favourite marvel character.

If you want to continue this discussion pm me please. No need to derail this thread any longer.

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#32 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@schwarz: Who are these people? I hope you're not referring to me.

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#33 Edited by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: I'm not making him bigger than he is, but I'm also not downgrading him to the level others believe him to be at. Hulk has some extreme feats of power under his belt, so to say he isn't considered high-herald class and yet Thor or Superman are just because they have more powers is very hypocritical and biased to say the very least.

What do Superman, Thor, and Surfer have over the Hulk? Speed, flight, more powers? So freaking what?! Versatility doesn't mean superiority, nor does it guarantee victory on any level. It's a case of quality over quantity.

The only method that has ever allowed Surfer to triumph over Hulk is the draining technique. And that only worked once on the Savage Hulk. And we've seen Hulk overcome molecular manipulation and energy manipulation assaults numerous times before, even as recent as Waid's Indestructible Hulk run with the Thor-level molecular weapons. Besides this, Hulk can take anything and everything that beings like Thor, Superman and Surfer can throw at him and vice-versa. Why is that? Because they're all of the same elite power class of heroes!

The only way they could manage another way of victory over the Hulk is through BFR, which is a lot easier said than done if you take into account of the Hulk vs. Gladiator conflict. Or if it's one of the less powerful Hulk personas/incarnations like Joe Fixit/Gray Hulk. But 9 times out of 10, Hulk is more than capable of taking on any of these heroes in an all-out conflict and see it to a virtual standstill. I'm not discrediting or disrespecting Thor or Superman or Silver Surfer, but I am stating the facts and speaking truths. So, with that said, I'm going to say this one final time.

It's the truth, it's a fact, and you will all just have to accept it and deal with it. If not, well then I don't care because it doesn't change a thing.

The Hulk is not only the physically most powerful character in all of comics, but he's also one of the most powerful heroic beings there is in all of comics. He is one of the big guns. One of the elite powerhouse heroes, just as mighty and formidable as the likes of Thor, Superman, Silver Surfer, and all the various elite powerhouses of Marvel & DC.

There. I've said my peace. I'm done.

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#34 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4729 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenscar1990: you do realize Superman could cut Hulks brain in half with his HV. Or blitz him to death.

Thor could open a portal to the heart of the sun and slam hulk into it or godblast him or winds of 1000 worlds and crush him.

SS could just plop him in a bacl hole and be done with it. Or drian his gamma energy.

In a physical battle Hulk may have an edgeedge (barely) but with the massive power, speed, versatility difference he has no way of beating them. Hell Wally West, Sentry and MMH can just as easily subdue him if they really wanted to.

Again as I stated before Hulk is no doubt a physical beast but that doesn't garner him a herald level rating. Again if you want to continue this pm me please.

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#35 Posted by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: Whatever. Given how he's dealt with and withstood the full force of Hyperion's heat vision without damage (among other Superman level foes assaults), kept up with speedsters of Superman level and even the Surfer, I doubt it.

There's no definitive proof that a Godblast can kill or even knock out the Hulk, nor the force of winds from a 1000 worlds. And while throwing him into the sun would BFR him, it may not be the wisest choice due to the gamma energy and various other radiations that Hulk would absorb.

Same for Surfer dropping him into a Black Hole. It'd BFR him, but given that this is comics it's unlikely it would kill him or even keep him contained forever. And I've already brought up the draining technique, which has only successfully worked once on Savage Hulk and there's no guarantee it'll work again or on any other personas/incarnations of the Hulk.

Sentry going all-out couldn't stop the Hulk during WWH. An all-out Sentry defeated the Void and bested Terrax, who has defeated and matched Surfer several times in the past, in his own mini-series.

All you're doing is speculating and attempting to enforce your opinion. Versatility/more powers don't mean anything. It doesn't mean superiority, nor does it guarantee victory as you seem to believe.

You want to debate and discuss this with someone? Then feel free to contact @jaxthejester_2014. I would love to hear his thoughts on this matter.

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#36 Edited by dum529001 (3992 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@greenscar1990: He doesn't. As I stated above he had the physicals to hang with them but that's it. He has no way to counteract anything else they throw at him. He would essentially get wrecked. No way around. Only Maestro and WWH may be up in Low Level Herald territory but that's it. Dont make your character seem bigger than he is.

Keep in mind I'm not a blind Superman/Thor fanboy. Hulk is my favourite marvel character.

If you want to continue this discussion pm me please. No need to derail this thread any longer.

The only difference is flight and electromagnetic energy blasts.

Being able to run away and keep your distance while attacking doesn't guarantee a win.

it's like saying I'm helpless against someone throw rocks at me while hovering above me with a jet pack. Doesn't mean I can't deflect and dodge what you throw at me.

Staying at a greater distance means you are more likely to dodge an attack that travels all the way across that space because you only need to move a shorter distance in the same amount of time to dodge it . However, If the fighters are working with the same distance in order to dodge or land an attack and are physical equals, attack angles aside, whoever brings out more of their power or gets a sudden increase of greater power, hitting the fastest and hardest, will probably win.

There is absolutely No shortage of power concerning the Hulk so he wins unless the opponent can knock him out or incapacitate him, which counts as a win, but he won't die.

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#37 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4729 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: @greenscar1990: Hulk has no answer to their level of speed. if wanted he would simply not be able to see or hit them. Hyperions HV has no indicaion of being on the level of Superman. At best it knocked back Hulk, Ex Nihilo and obliterated Corvus Glaive.

Superman However

incinerates an army of DD clones
incinerates an army of DD clones
Heats up he planet Earth
Heats up he planet Earth
Powers up a planetary engine
Powers up a planetary engine

Mind you these are post crisis feats.

The God blast fatally wounded Galactus........brah. Winds of 1000 worlds decimated one of the Chaos Kings elite and killed Uriel of the apocalypse twins by opening a portal to the sun.

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Surfer has been shown capable of creating black hole sunder his own power. He could simply bring him outside of the sol system and hen open a black hole and suck him in.Its not BFR. Hulk has not shown any signs that he can survive a black hole. Hell not even Thor has. (dont have the scans but you could pretty much ask anyone else and they will tell you the same thing.)

A full throttle Sentry stomped Ares, Dropped Asgard, Tanked Thors best blows and proceeded to pummel him. And just recently was shown capable of FTL travel and then proceeded to stomp Thor and later on effortlessely lift a Celestial.

They all have the physcials to KO him. Thor has shown this in his battles against Hulk himself, Hyperion, Classic Drax, Gladiator, Count Nefaria, Apocalypse, Juggernaut, Mangog, the Destroyer, Ulik and Thanos.

Superman with Doomsday, Darkseid, Kalibak, Solomon Grundy, Shazam, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Mongul, Despero, Lobo, Zod etc

Silver Surfer with pretty much every single cosmic force in the Marvel Universe, Hulk, Thor and Thanos themselves etc you get my point.

Just because you are stronger than someone (and not even by a large margin) does not mean you win a figh. If that person is faster, smarter, as durable, is smarter, nearly as strong, way more powerful, nearly as durable han they win hands down and are on a level you are not on.

I am not saying they stomp Hulk, hes a lesser being or character because of this no. he isnt. hes a beats but he is just simply outclassed in this category. Sentry, Nova, Quasar, Beta Ray Bill, Gladiator, Marvel Now Hyperion, Silver Surfer, Ronan, Thor, Superman, Martian Manhunter, Wally West, Black Adam, Shazam, Wonder Woman, Barry Allen, Professor Zoom, Terrax etc are all high to low level herald.

I do agree tough that Meastro and WWHulk are capable of being placed in this cataegory but thats all a matter of perception and opinion.

Happy New Year :)

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#38 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenscar1990: In my opinion, I don't think Hulk is just herald level but I genuinely believe he is in a class of his own. He can jump from any level to another from superhuman to skyfather and so on. No matter how much Silver Surfer tries to amp himself, he could never beat Thanos however that isn't the case for Hulk.

Sure the Vine, never classifies Hulk being on solar system or galaxy busting levels considering the distance between interstellar objects, however if the combined objects within a solar system or a galaxy were compressed together, Hulk could potentially bust it apart.

The Silver Surfer draining technique only worked back during the classic days. Hulk has gotten more and more powerful over the years and more resistant to pretty much any form of attack. Hulk is his own power source, I don't think Silver Surfer could just drain Hulk easily without any consequences, plus Hulk isn't just going to stand there and let him do it.

The Destroyer armor of Asgard lacks versatility but yet it's still considered a skyfather level or even celestial level being. It's true that versatility doesn't equal to superiority.

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#39 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: The Vine has a bad habit have using pre-determined power levels to justify who beats who, which isn't exactly a fair comparison. Hulk has what it takes to beat any of the guys you've mentioned above even if he loses more often than not, putting Hulk down is by no means a walk in the park and definitely not a stomp.

The advantages they have over him is just flight, speed, versatility etc and Hulk is no stranger to taking on such opponents as his comic history demonstrates. He has the necessary power to put them down in the long run, the necessary speed to keep up or stay ahead plus he has the necessary endurance to show that keeping him down wouldn't be a piece of cake.

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#40 Posted by bonifidehustla (280 posts) - - Show Bio

: The Vine has a bad habit have using pre-determined power levels to justify who beats who, which isn't exactly a fair comparison. Hulk has what it takes to beat any of the guys you've mentioned above even if he loses more often than not, putting Hulk down is by no means a walk in the park and definitely not a stomp.

The advantages they have over him is just flight, speed, versatility etc and Hulk is no stranger to taking on such opponents as his comic history demonstrates. He has the necessary power to put them down in the long run, the necessary speed to keep up or stay ahead plus he has the necessary endurance to show that keeping him down wouldn't be a piece of cake.

He must for forgot what Hulk does when he fights speed/flight/versatility people Hulk Clap. LOL

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#41 Edited by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio
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..and yet another piece about the Hulk gets derailed by Superman v Hulk arguments.....groooannn.

Back on topic, Thor and Superman are both very highly respected on the Vine, Hulk isn't as respected, despite a consistent good record against his opponents, and that's the main point of this thread.

People always under-estimate the Hulk because they forget that he has a major healing factor, said to be even better than Wolverine's and his power isn't fixed, it simply increases with rage. So even if you are the fastest guy out there, how do you put down someone for good, who simply recovers from any injury inflicted on him. That's not counting his durability which seems to have increased recently. Adamantium bullets bounce off him, he has tanked nuclear blasts at point blank range and he got up straight away from a Thanos smack. IMO Superman's heat vision would do no more than burn a wound that would heal up almost immediately. Even if he did manage to lobotomise Hulk, which would require a huge concentrated blast and the Hulk remaining still long enough for his skull to be penetrated (unlikely), Hulk's brain would heal.... As for the speed blitz, that's no guarantee of a win as the New 52 fight between Superman and Orion amply demonstrated -

..but hey, this isn't a respect superman thread, its a respect the Hulk thread, so I will leave it with this!! (from my favourite Hulk one shot!).

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#42 Posted by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@schwarz: That's good to know. Hulk is actually very popular with non-comic readers and very well known too, it's just the Vine don't respect him.

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#44 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza: Do you want to know something funny? Thor fans are fine when Kurse beats the smack out of Thor in comics, When Hulk beats the smack out of Thor, they start complaining. They are happy to accept Kurse beating Thor physically but wouldn't allow World Breaker Hulk to beat Thor at all. Kurse isn't as popular or as well known as Hulk, they both use the same techniques in combat yet it's obvious one character gets less respect than the other.

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#45 Posted by KeyKey (13 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree Hulk needs more respect and another movie plus some more Hulk videogames

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#46 Posted by dum529001 (3992 posts) - - Show Bio

@underdogsupporter said:

: The Vine has a bad habit have using pre-determined power levels to justify who beats who, which isn't exactly a fair comparison. Hulk has what it takes to beat any of the guys you've mentioned above even if he loses more often than not, putting Hulk down is by no means a walk in the park and definitely not a stomp.

The advantages they have over him is just flight, speed, versatility etc and Hulk is no stranger to taking on such opponents as his comic history demonstrates. He has the necessary power to put them down in the long run, the necessary speed to keep up or stay ahead plus he has the necessary endurance to show that keeping him down wouldn't be a piece of cake.

He must for forgot what Hulk does when he fights speed/flight/versatility people Hulk Clap. LOL

Hulk usually just hit them because !!SURPRISE!! Hulk is not slow in comparison to anyone he fights and there is more than one way to display or indicate speed in a comic book at any given time.

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#47 Edited by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001:

That's very true actually. Marvel doesn't really display speed as DC does and it was really only when DC power-house specialist Mark Waid wrote Hulk that we started to see blurs of the type you get in a Superman book, which illustrated amply how fast the Hulk can be when he wants to be.

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#48 Edited by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza: Yeah, we might have seen the blurs displayed. But we did have a good many speed feats from the Hulk way before Mark Waid came onboard.

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#49 Edited by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenscar1990: @bezza: @dum529001: True. Hulk is quite fast so I don't see why him tagging Silver Surfer is PIS the way the Vine puts it as. Even characters slower than Hulk get recognition despite no speed feats yet Hulk doesn't. Something doesn't add up.

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#50 Posted by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio

@underdogsupporter:

Hulk has tagged the surfer before, I think what gives Hulk defenders a hard time is that he has in the past struggled to tag nippy streetlevellers like Wolverine and Spiderman. We all know its PIS to some extent because if Hulk even slapped, say, Spiderman, he'd be mush, but of course its ammo to the anti Hulk brigade who say he is slow. I think we have to recognise that the likes of Superman have superior combat speed (I haven't seen Hulk speed blitz like Superman can), but Hulk is definitely fast enough to be able to tag Superman, or any of that tier of powerhouse, the probably exception being the Flash, although the Flash does get tagged by big old Grodd, so who knows??!

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