Context Files: Hulk Vol.2

Avatar image for ghostravage
#1 Edited by GhostRavage (14945 posts) - - Show Bio

Since the first thread Context Files: Hulk vol.1 was a complete success, Acid and I decided to make a second volume of the Context Files: Hulk series with new content to clear the misinformation on the forums and inform the mass. Enjoy.

By @ghostravage and @theacidskull.

NOTE: This would be a sequel of the first thread of what we're expecting to be a series of "Context Files" threads with different characters. Also, this will be edited through some time to add new instances and improve the info explained here as well as constantly updating the thread.

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a respect thread and people who searches for the context shown here would be considered as "aware" of the feats mentioned in this thread. For basic information of the feats being contextualized here, please visit Hulk's Respect Threads.

http://www.comicvine.com/hulk/4005-2267/forums/indestructible-hulk-respect-thread-1449573/

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/theacidskull/blog/respect-the-hulk/85694/

Hulkbusters beating Hulk?

It hasn't been once, nor twice, nor thrice that Iron Man fans claim Iron Man has beaten Hulk with Hulkbusters in the past, which is indeed a fallacious assertion considering it has never happened. Most of the time, the out of context scan used to claim this is this one from Invincible Iron Man #305:

No Caption Provided

With this scan people claims 2 things that couldn't be more off putting:

  • "Iron Man can beat Hulk under fair conditions."
  • "Iron Man has beaten Hulk with Hulkbusters before."

The fact Iron Man didn't actually beat Hulk in this instance, in fact, Hulk wasn't even harmed by the armor during the entirety of the issue and anyone who read the issue prior to making the claim would know, already debunks such notion, for a better view on their fight, here are the highlights of their fight:

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

As the scan itself shows, Hulk was holding back for the entirety of the fight and as you can see, he was also completely impervious to Iron Man's attacks and were nothing more than a nuisance for him. Concluding:

  • Hulk wasn't beaten by Iron Man, ergo, a Hulkbuster has never beaten Earth-616 Hulk.
  • Hulk was holding back and wasn't harmed by Iron Man's Hulkbuster in one of his weakest incarnations.

~GhostRavage

==================================================================================================================

Sun God stomps Hulk?

Even though the notion isn't completely false and Sun God indeed stomped Hulk, people tend to overlook which Hulk was fighting Sun God. They assume, given the writer in that moment, that it was Savage Hulk from Indestructible Hulk, which is extremely powerful, however it wasn't Savage Hulk. Anyways, the claim is often made when posting this out of context scan from New Avengers #20:

No Caption Provided

Before this fight, Banner injected himself with a serum which allowed him to gain more control over Hulk while sacrificing strength and potential during New Avengers #19, by overriding his emotions, which considering the core detonator of Hulk's potential, is indeed a factor to take into account. This is forwardly hinted when for the entirety of the fight with Sun God, Hulk was pictured as a Grey Hulk.

No Caption Provided

The fact Hulk was grey during the instance instead of the common green means he wasn't operating at normal levels and was obviously weaker than average. In fact, it is quite visible that when Banner was losing control over Hulk's powers once again he was turning partially green instead of staying grey as he was meant to during the fight in New Avengers #20...

No Caption Provided

Moreover, Hulk's color is actually a quite solid indicative of his power level, as it was strongly implied during World War Hulk: Gamma Corps #3 that devolving him to previous power levels turns him grey when they manage to alter his DNA temporarily weakening him and ultimately managing to snap his neck...

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

By the moment Hulk was weakened enough to snap his neck that easily he was completely grey, which is the same color of Hulk that fought Sun God in New Avengers. There's enough proof let alone blatantly shown and described in previous canonical instances to claim he was weakened. Even Bruce Banner in classic days during Incredible Hulk #318 claimed Grey Hulk was weaker than Green Hulk by quite a fair margin at the same time claiming Grey Hulk was him during his first hours of transformation...

No Caption Provided

It is blatantly visible and nigh-irrefutable that Hulk was severely weakened against Sun God and still was strong enough to smack him around. Hickman, the issue's writer, showed Sun God can beat a weakened Hulk, that's about it and it is factually proven.

~GhostRavage

==================================================================================================================

Thor manhandling two Hulks?

This is not as popular as previous ones but certainly one Thor fans and supporters love to use when delivering arguments against Hulk and his potential on beating Thor in a straight up fight. The claim revolves around Thor fighting Grey Hulk and Savage Hulk at the same time which from their standpoint, is indeed a very good feat to pull up, however, there's some context that is either purposely overlooked or flat out unconsciously ignored. It is often used coupled with these set of scans.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

The scans are from Avengers Season One and at first glance Thor did hold his ground against to very powerful foes however, those Hulk weren't either Grey Hulk nor Savage Hulk but Grey Hulk from Banner's first hours as Hulk during his first appearance, likewise, the green Hulk in the fight is commonly referred as Gravage Hulk, a personification of Grey Hulk with green color so to speak, which also took place in a very classic era, including Hulk's first volume of the 60's, when he was barely able to pull fits around 70 tons. Zarrko himself explains he time-displaced both Hulks and flat out states the Grey One is literally from Hulk's birth.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

As the scans show, Zarrko confirmed both Hulks were from a different timeline than the current one and considering the Green one was able to pull coherent sentences and even make plans mid fight with proper explanations means it was the commonly known as Gravage Hulk, which has an average intellect but certainly above the likes of Savage Hulk and others.

So what do we have here?

  • Thor was fighting two Hulks that were leaps and bounds inferior to Savage Hulk, much less the Hulk in the proper timeline given Savage Hulk in the same issue was fighting the combined force of the Avengers including Thor with astonishing ease.
  • This is actually a bad feat for Thor to use, given he was getting smacked by both Grey Hulk and Gravage Hulk, ergo, by 2 characters that even combined are much less of a threat than Savage Hulk.

~GhostRavage

==============================================================================================================================

Hank McCoy harming and blitzing Hulk?

Often used when people is trying to argue against Hulk's speed when facing street levelers. It is painfully obvious that particular debate is a very controversial one, but that's no excuse to neglect context, specially this one when the entirety of the issue revolves around Hulk not operating on his proper level of speed, durability and strength. Anyways, the claim is most of the time coupled with this out of context scan:

No Caption Provided

The scan is from Incredible Hulk #161, which were the days Beast was able to fight Earth-616 Hyperion from Squadron Sinister which at the same time was able to go toe to toe with Thor back in that era, shrugging off hammer throws and clashing with Hulk generating Earthquakes, regardless of such an inconsistent character development, the instance also has context. Hulk was weakened due to Mimic's powers, he was literally "sickening" and was weak to the point of being unable to smash a simple rock, wasn't able to leap great distances and was dizzy all the time to the point of missing the point of landing when leaping and getting dizzy just by looking down from a high altitude. Hulk wasn't anywhere near his average, much less his best... These are the relevant scans from the same issue:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

So what do we have here:

  • Hulk was greatly weakened in the instance, so Beast standing a chance against him to begin with is a fallacious claim on principle.
  • Hulk was dizzy and lost balance in almost the entirety of the issue, meaning speed as a factor should be taken into account.

~GhostRavage

=============================================================================================================================

Can Hulk withstand Absolute Zero temperature?

A very impressive yet "arguable" feat for Hulk, often logically downplayed by claiming he did it because of his armor, however, that's no entirely true and the confirmation comes from a source hardly anyone has access to. The debate intensifies when the instance is coupled with this particular scan:

No Caption Provided

The scan is from Indestructible Hulk #8 and is very self-explanatory. Hulk jumped into a stream of absolute zero and saved Thor who was previously launched into it and trapped there in complete frozen state, however, the scan clearly states his armor is heating up to prepare the engagement is such a hostile temperature, which obviously gives the notion Hulk couldn't have done it without his armor. This is were World War Hulk: Gamma Files comes to play and actually confirms Hulk can resist absolute zero temperatures by himself:

No Caption Provided

As the handbook states, he could have resisted such degree of cold without the armor considering this biographical entry is confirming he has already done it without it and it is referring to events that happened at the very least 5 years prior to his appearances in Indestructible Hulk. Whether people chooses to believe he couldn't have done it or could have is up to them, but there's sufficient proof to at least be open to the idea, and for a being that consistently shrugs off the cold of space unaided it isn't far fetched to believe he could also do the same on a temperature which is only about 3°C under the temperature of space.

So what do we have here:

  • Hulk did the feat with the armor on, but there's no concrete way to irrefutably claim he couldn't have done it without it.
  • Reliable sources confirm he has done it in the past as well as reiterating his potential on doing so without addressing the feat in question nor the Hulk used on that particular occasion.

~GhostRavage

=============================================================================================================================

Avatar image for ghostravage
Avatar image for jashro44
#3 Posted by jashro44 (53754 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting.

Online
Avatar image for sophia89
#4 Posted by sophia89 (19802 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty good.

Avatar image for wastelandman
#5 Posted by WastelandMan (8818 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad you addressed the Sun God feat. People like to use that one all the time.

Avatar image for deactivated-5c6c6de088804
#6 Posted by deactivated-5c6c6de088804 (3539 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice stuff man. Kudos.

Avatar image for greenscar1990
#7 Posted by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

How about comparing the fight between Lord Armageddon vs. Professor/Merged Hulk & Silver Surfer in The Incredible Hulk #416 - The Troyjan War, Part 4: The Big Bang and the Green Scar vs. Lord Armaggedon conflict in Incredible Hulks #632 - Heart of the Monster, Part 3 in order to demonstrate and prove how powerful the Warlord of the Troyjan is?

Remember that Lord Armageddon overcome Merged/Professor Hulk and Silver Surfer simultaneously in PAD's Troyjan War arch, and that the Silver Surfer only managed to escape through the aid of Pantheon member Cassiopea/Cassie who managed to redirect Armageddon & the Surfer's power back at the villain in order to break the link (thought Armageddon withstood the powerful blast virtually unscathed despite his power and that of the Silver Surfer being unleashed upon him simultaneously). Afterwards, the raging and battle-lusting Silver Surfer and Lord Armageddon fought to a virtual standstill for a great length of time until Hulk killed Trauma, thus ending the fight for the time being.

And how about proving the differential power levels of the Green Scar and Doc Green personas when taking into account of their separate battles against Skaar & Red Hulk?

I also don't recall if we ever covered WWH withstanding Black Bolt's voice that managed to tear a chunk the size of Rhode Island off the Moon. If only to shut up those who say it isn't on par with the real BB, despite the fact that Greg Pak intended it to be the real BB and was only changed during/after Bendis' lame Secret Invasion event. It would also be cool to compare WWH tanking that kind of a scream where as Thanos was ripped up by a weakened BB's voice during Infinity that caused nowhere near that level of damage.

Avatar image for theincrediblesuperhulk8642
#8 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4623 posts) - - Show Bio

Well the Sun God battle is debatable. Hulk wasn't actually grey. If you look at it properly the incursion was changing everyone's colors. Panther was purple, Namor had orange skin and the Jovian had blue skin. Sun God also looked orange as well.

Also the line Bruce states doesn't necessarily mean he was being weakened. Hickman also never mentioned this to NY knowledge in fan questions. Not like how he clarified the Hyperion fight or the Hyperion universe feat etc.

Not saying you guys are wrong. Just that it's a little tricky to determine this.

Oh and hooray for another context files.

Avatar image for lvenger
#9 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

Glad to see this is back again, I actually agree with both topics of discussion so far, though the difference is only 100% compared to 80% of the last thread and even they were well reasoned and argued. In any case, hoping to see my suggestion up there at some point ;)

Avatar image for laflux
#10 Posted by laflux (24735 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for laflux
#11 Posted by laflux (24735 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenscar1990: The first scream was at full power. But the next few were weaker due to his exposure to the mists. Plus any damage Thanos sustained was superficial IMO and he went on to stomp

Avatar image for greenscar1990
#12 Edited by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Which did nothing and was nowhere near as powerful/devastating as the scream in WWH. Plus the detonation of the bomb that destroyed Attilan was what brought upon the most damage/destruction. Superficial in the sense that his suit was trashed, he flesh was torn up and he was bleeding all over, then yes, I agree.

Avatar image for lvenger
#13 Edited by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

World War Hulk did display blood from his lips indicating he took a little damage from Skrull Bolt's scream and the real Black Bolt has better feats for his voice's power than Skrull Bolt demonstrated so I wouldn't think it wise to make an edition on how impressive World War Hulk tanking Skrull Bolt's scream was. Thanos outclasses Pak's Hulk in durability feats outside of the Black Bolt comparison too.

Avatar image for laflux
#14 Posted by laflux (24735 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Which did nothing and was nowhere near as powerful/devastating as the scream in WWH. Plus the detonation of the bomb that destroyed Attilan was what brought upon the most damage/destruction. Superficial in the sense that his suit was trashed, he flesh was torn up and he was bleeding all over, then yes, I agree.

I agree that the Skrull one did more splash damage. But Thanos has bled from Gamora and Namor. It really means nothing. His suit isn't his physical body so I don't know why that being brought up. And where exactly was his flesh "torn up". He had some cuts and bruises but still went on Stomp BB, like he did to Namor.

@lvenger said:

Thanos outclasses Pak's Hulk in durability feats outside of the Black Bolt comparison too.

Also this

Avatar image for thedailybagel
#15 Posted by Thedailybagel (12906 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice

Avatar image for schwarz
#16 Edited by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you for this. You take your time to research carefully and write for us fans. There is a lot of work put behind this and I appreciate the time you put into it :)

Avatar image for ghostravage
#17 Posted by GhostRavage (14945 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: You can consider it debatable but it's not practical to do so. There's no excuse for Hulk changing tones on very particular parts of his body when coincidentally losing his cool, even more so when previously he was completely grey and able to talk and even ask on point questions regarding the situation of that Earth. That said, Banner also states that when he turns green the serum allows him to throttle back.

I understand your point of view, but it lacks justification to what is shown in panel, specially Hulk being green in some parts and others not, is not like his whole body was changed during the instance, grey spots and green spots were clearly visible when he was losing control and before that time there wasn't a single shred of green in his body.

Avatar image for theincrediblesuperhulk8642
#18 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4623 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Which I completely understand. But before the fight happens Hulk is full on green. And throughout the fight he's in savage mode. It's extremely unclear what exactly happened. Eventually someone should ask Hickman so he could clear it up. As you are not wrong....but again it's 50/50.

I wish Sun God had lived....was really hoping to see him and Hyperion meet. Damn you Hickman.

Avatar image for iamthelaw
#20 Posted by IAmTheLaw (857 posts) - - Show Bio

These are great! I just wish the people making some of these claims would read all these, like we do.

Avatar image for atheistknowledge
#21 Posted by AtheistKnowledge (9595 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

Avatar image for medulaoblaganda
#22 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for ghostravage
#23 Posted by GhostRavage (14945 posts) - - Show Bio

@medulaoblaganda: This one isn't finished just yet. Don't worry though, i'm planning on continuing this one as well as 1 more file for Hulk. Perhaps do a Superman: Context Files afterwards.

Avatar image for medulaoblaganda
#24 Posted by medulaoblaganda (2387 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: please do bro!! because there are so many hulk downplayers everywhere,not only in comic vine. google+ downplay hulk so bad.

when are you gonna do vol 3 ?

Avatar image for deactivated-5d07416730d08
#25 Edited by deactivated-5d07416730d08 (2261 posts) - - Show Bio

Entire context of Indestructible Hulk #8 feat is that Hulk's skin can withstand absolute zero temperatures but his internal organs are vulnerable , that's the reason behind why armor heated with thermal units and guidebook obviously implies it : ''The Hulk is superhumanly durable and resistant to pain and disease. His skin can resist great heat without blistering , great cold without freezing.''Also , this statement kinda explains how Hulk managed to survive when his limbs and head weren't covered with armor.

Avatar image for zillag
#26 Posted by ZillaG (615 posts) - - Show Bio

Today i learned that there are no important organs inside your head.

But seriously, there is nothing saying Hulks organs are the ones vulnerable to the cold, that's entirely made up headcannon extrapolated from the statement that mentions skin but mentions nothing about the organs.

Lets entertain that notion for a moment, Hulks organs are vulnerable to absolute zero, so? Hulk has shown that he can function perfectly fine without his organs, whether they are completely destroyed or removed from him, it doesn't even phase him or even slow him down. So even with his organs frozen he'd function just fine.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.