Anyone sick n tired of Hulk WIS? winning fights he shouldnt win!!

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#51 Posted by Gentleman106 (1 posts) - - Show Bio


Their used to be more of a concern of the status quo by editers in the marvel universe regarding the Hulk and other characters.  
 
Nowadays it's whatever makes fanatics (fans) happier. MORE CASH!!!   "" make the Hulk the strongest their is!""" 
 
Character"s with a lesser fanbase will suffer.  Bussiness overcomes Art.  
 
Anyway's here who I think should not be beaten by the hulk, For the first 30 years of marvel continuity  this is how i believed Marvel characters were tier'ed.  Since this is a hulk thread, i will pit him against the rest.  
 
Hulk vs Thor, Hercules, , Juggernaut, Wonderman,  and others I can't remember, a QUESTION MARK SHOULD ALWAYS HANG IN THE AIR, about who the victor should be.

 

Hulk vs Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Sentry, The Destroyer,  RESULT :  The Hulk should lose.  
 
Business vs Art.     Bussiness wins.  
 
Excelsior!!!!
 

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#52 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm tired of people not knowing Hulk's feats well enough to know that there are a massive amount of fights that he won that he very well should have.

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#53 Posted by Theworldbreaker (1681 posts) - - Show Bio

I see nothing wrong with Hulk beating Gladiator, he already fought Thor tons of times and that fight was probrably made to show just how strong the Hulk is. Like when WWH fought Sentry it was to show how strong he had become, since he didn't show much in terms of feats earlyer in the story.
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#54 Posted by Super_Gui_1 (321 posts) - - Show Bio
@MutenRoshi said:
getting owned? 

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not
@Super_Gui_1 said:
lol just read fear itself 5 i cannot believe ppl think that bfr was a win
 
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Now idk if you noticed but Thor used everything he had just to bfr him not HURT him just make him someone else problem and just doing that took him so much strength he fell to the ground
@Gentleman106: and surfer is overated just what feat does he have to justify all the hype ppl have about him?
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#55 Posted by megameta (2 posts) - - Show Bio

there have been many times the hulk has beaten a character then got beaten by the same character. he isnt involnerble , very duribal but not involnerable.his strength is virtualy limitless but depends on emotional triggers or pain or stress so its totaly logical he has the potential to beat anyone but can be beaten just the same . it all realy depends on how fast the opponent attacks him and if they had the elemnt of surprise most characters are writen as attacking him directly after he's been aggitated so he's hard to put down most of these comic sites forget that these characters are still based around humanity wich isnt perfect so any character can and probaly will be defeted no matter how powerful..look at real fights sometimes you win sometimes you dont it all depends on the situation

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#56 Posted by Hoboseid (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_Gui_1 said:

@Gentleman106: and surfer is overated just what feat does he have to justify all the hype ppl have about him?

The Silver Surfer has intelligence and versatility, he doesn't really slug it out but he has such a massive range of moves he can do that Surfer basically has a chance to beat almost anyone. The Silver Surfer has telepathy, energy manipulation, speed....you name it. Surfer has used telepathy to calm Hulk back into Banner, he has drained the Gamma radiation from Hulk making him a man or in a fight he could just teleport Hulk very far away. The Silver Surfer also has "cosmic awareness" meaning he can immediately read people and read things and has a type of clairvoyance or sixth sense almost automatically knowing how certain things in the universe work....having cosmic awareness he could know Hulk is vulnerable to being drained of gamma energy

but then again I'm not a big fan of this "cosmic awareness" thing because it needs to be wrote correctly to fit into a story and some writers use it like PIS and basically turn it into a plot device like how SilverAgeSuperman or Sentry would randomly find a way to win impossible battles

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#57 Posted by difficlus (10659 posts) - - Show Bio

Him 'stalemating' sentry was what did it for me...

Also thor should not have problem beating Hulk's ass down.

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#58 Posted by the_stegman (40354 posts) - - Show Bio


Him 'stalemating' sentry was what did it for me...

Also thor should not have problem beating Hulk's ass down.

this, i'm willing to go ahead and back Hulk up on most of the fights he wins, but there are four characters i think he should never beat (not counting cosmic beings)   
1. Sentry 
2. Thor 
3.A mildly prepared Dr. Strange 
4. Any high level telepath, like Xavier, i don't care how much mysterious "tp resistance" the writer claims Hulk has
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#59 Posted by Super_Gui_1 (321 posts) - - Show Bio

@difficlus said:

Him 'stalemating' sentry was what did it for me...

Also thor should not have problem beating Hulk's ass down.

Sentry is very overated and lack the feats should make him seen as extremely powerful. Thor isn't that strong, their fight can go either way.

@The Stegman said:

Him 'stalemating' sentry was what did it for me...

Also thor should not have problem beating Hulk's ass down.

this, i'm willing to go ahead and back Hulk up on most of the fights he wins, but there are four characters i think he should never beat (not counting cosmic beings) 1. Sentry 2. Thor 3.A mildly prepared Dr. Strange 4. Any high level telepath, like Xavier, i don't care how much mysterious "tp resistance" the writer claims Hulk has

If dr.strange power level was always used as it's suppose to, he would basicly own every character that isn't skyfather lvl (or could he?) without any kind of difficulty whatsoever, also hulk won cause he tricked him (aka crushing his hands). Character with multiple personalities were always harder (or impossible) to control telepathically.

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#60 Posted by difficlus (10659 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_Gui_1: the point is Sentry is going ALL OUT and Hulk is somehow able to tag him, whether his strength is impressive or not hulk shouldn't be able to tag him. Just like gladiator.

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#61 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:

@Super_Gui_1: the point is Sentry is going ALL OUT and Hulk is somehow able to tag him, whether his strength is impressive or not hulk shouldn't be able to tag him. Just like gladiator.

"Going All out" Obviously doesn't mean "Using all of his powers". Hulk is able to tag the Sentry because the Sentry is brawling with him putting himself in harms way. Just because one character is way faster than another doesn't mean they know how to fully utilize their speed.
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#62 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hoboseid said:
 Marvel used to hate Thor maybe Thor now with the big movie Thor can finally win againsy Hulk
Marvel never hated Thor and the scans you responded to were mostly out of context and even photoshopped.
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#63 Posted by difficlus (10659 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@difficlus said:

@Super_Gui_1: the point is Sentry is going ALL OUT and Hulk is somehow able to tag him, whether his strength is impressive or not hulk shouldn't be able to tag him. Just like gladiator.

"Going All out" Obviously doesn't mean "Using all of his powers". Hulk is able to tag the Sentry because the Sentry is brawling with him putting himself in harms way. Just because one character is way faster than another doesn't mean they know how to fully utilize their speed.

But given the circumstances of the battle you'd think he'd be fighting better given what's at stake. So they dumb him down for plot sake...

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#64 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
@difficlus said:

But given the circumstances of the battle you'd think he'd be fighting better given what's at stake. So they dumb him down for plot sake...

A terrible fighter is a terrible fighter no matter what's at stake. He wasn't dumbed down, he just sucks at combat. He has one of the lowest fighting skill ratings i've seen for a superhero. Unlike the rest of the Avengers he's had no training at all.
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#65 Posted by deactivated-579156ff11b09 (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

- I agree with what your saying, but in a far more general sense and not just in terms of the Hulk, comic fights have always been biased by:

1 - Whose comic is the fight in?

2 - Is the writer a fanboy/girl of the character?

3 - Does the plot revolve around around said character winning or losing?

- Hulk, no matter what anyone says has limits like every other character. Although in his case they are very high on the scale in terms of strength, durability, healing, etc. Hulk has always been very powerful, but he has also been caught up in Marvel's current master plan to spotlight a character:

1 - Give them a massive power upgrade

2 - Let them stomp or make look terrible around 6 heroes or teams regardless of if they should win or not

3 - Switch to another character and repeat (Thor, Iron Man, Sentry, etc)

- It's almost become an arms race where writers are trying to out do one another for impressive or insane feats to make (in their minds) the character more popular or more relevant. All it does is make the current fans happy, readers who are neutral see their favorite character look bad and curse the character/book, in the end nobody is satisfied.

- All I am asking is keep it consistent and stop with the endless upgrades, it confuses everyone and at some point they will have these characters so powerful no one will know what to do with them. If a writer needs to make a character win/lose for plots sake, just take the time to have it make sense and most of this debate will go away.

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#66 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
@WarMachineMarkV said:

- All I am asking is keep it consistent and stop with the endless upgrades, it confuses everyone and at some point they will have these characters so powerful no one will know what to do with them. 

What character has had ALOT of upgrades? Aside from characters with technology based origins\powers like Iron Man which makes sense... 
 
@WarMachineMarkV said:

If a writer needs to make a character win/lose for plots sake, just take the time to have it make sense and most of this debate will go away.

I agree with that but that's how comics have been forever. Tons of characters, especially those that have their own comics have beaten characters that are out of their league just for the plot.
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#67 Posted by the_stegman (40354 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_Gui_1:  
 
1. Sentry's base strength>> Hulk's base strength, technically one or two blows from him should k.o hulk before he gets angerier, however i will admit WWH was heightened, so i change that to maybe five blow 
 
Sentry's Speed>>>>>>>>hulk's reaction time, Hulk should be unconscious before he knew what hit him 
 
2 Thor IS very strong, strong enough to lift that serpent that wrapped around the Earth, strong enough to shatter Frost giants easily, one hit from mjonir should knock hulk out, one lighting bolt should fry him faster than he can heal and obliterate every cell, there should be no way, AT ALL for Hulk to beat Thor without serious PIS 
 
3 Yes, Strange is that powerful, which only adds to the fact that Hulk shouldn't beat him, even if he had tricked him and broke his arms, a handless Strange>>> Hulk with no viable mystic protection 
 
 
4 How does having multiple personalities stop a telepath? even if it does, it's not like were dealing with Moon Knight numbers of personalities...it's two, one of which who is usually dormant while the other is in control, going up against a man (Xavier) who read the minds of everyone on the planet at once, who had telepathic conversations across solar systems, who has countless battles on the astral plane
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#68 Posted by deactivated-579156ff11b09 (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@WarMachineMarkV said:

- All I am asking is keep it consistent and stop with the endless upgrades, it confuses everyone and at some point they will have these characters so powerful no one will know what to do with them.

What character has had ALOT of upgrades? Aside from characters with technology based origins\powers like Iron Man which makes sense...

@WarMachineMarkV said:

If a writer needs to make a character win/lose for plots sake, just take the time to have it make sense and most of this debate will go away.

I agree with that but that's how comics have been forever. Tons of characters, especially those that have their own comics have beaten characters that are out of their league just for the plot.

1 - Not endless upgrades with one character, endless upgrades where they go from character to character

- Thor with Odinforce

- Iron Man with Extremis

- Hulk with WWH and World Breaker

2 - I agree with you that this has been a problem for along time, but I feel it's just getting worse and needs to be addressed.

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#69 Posted by yumyumbubblegum (633 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

@Super_Gui_1: 1. Sentry's base strength>> Hulk's base strength, technically one or two blows from him should k.o hulk before he gets angerier, however i will admit WWH was heightened, so i change that to maybe five blow Sentry's Speed>>>>>>>>hulk's reaction time, Hulk should be unconscious before he knew what hit him 2 Thor IS very strong, strong enough to lift that serpent that wrapped around the Earth, strong enough to shatter Frost giants easily, one hit from mjonir should knock hulk out, one lighting bolt should fry him faster than he can heal and obliterate every cell, there should be no way, AT ALL for Hulk to beat Thor without serious PIS 3 Yes, Strange is that powerful, which only adds to the fact that Hulk shouldn't beat him, even if he had tricked him and broke his arms, a handless Strange>>> Hulk with no viable mystic protection 4 How does having multiple personalities stop a telepath? even if it does, it's not like were dealing with Moon Knight numbers of personalities...it's two, one of which who is usually dormant while the other is in control, going up against a man (Xavier) who read the minds of everyone on the planet at once, who had telepathic conversations across solar systems, who has countless battles on the astral plane
  1. Hulk level strength> Hellcarrier>>>>>> Sentry. Jokes. No, but in all honesty, the Sentry is no Superman. mainly due to Marvel's 100 ton cap. If you thought that the Hulk went "all out" during WWH, then I suggest you read Heart of the Monster, when the Worldbreaker is transported to Umar's world. I daresay he was even stronger than Maestro at that point.
  2. It's true that Thor should be able to knock the Hulk out with his energy based attacks, but then it wouldn't be entertaining for the audience would it? Thor has already stated that physically, Banner is able to best him.
  3. Strange (the one who lost to Ghost Rider) from WWH is farrrr from Classic Strange. That means his abilities as the sorcerer supreme are half as strong and his wit in battle is twice as dumb. E.g. always trying to summon the bands of cytorak, when they haven't held anyone captive for as long as a minute, since the 70's.
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#70 Posted by Super_Gui_1 (321 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

@Super_Gui_1:
1. Sentry's base strength>> Hulk's base strength, technically one or two blows from him should k.o hulk before he gets angerier, however i will admit WWH was heightened, so i change that to maybe five blow Sentry's Speed>>>>>>>>hulk's reaction time, Hulk should be unconscious before he knew what hit him
2 Thor IS very strong, strong enough to lift that serpent that wrapped around the Earth, strong enough to shatter Frost giants easily, one hit from mjonir should knock hulk out, one lighting bolt should fry him faster than he can heal and obliterate every cell, there should be no way, AT ALL for Hulk to beat Thor without serious PIS
3 Yes, Strange is that powerful, which only adds to the fact that Hulk shouldn't beat him, even if he had tricked him and broke his arms, a handless Strange>>> Hulk with no viable mystic protection
4 How does having multiple personalities stop a telepath? even if it does, it's not like were dealing with Moon Knight numbers of personalities...it's two, one of which who is usually dormant while the other is in control, going up against a man (Xavier) who read the minds of everyone on the planet at once, who had telepathic conversations across solar systems, who has countless battles on the astral plane

wtf since when did sentry become one of the physically strongest characters? sentry has no idea how to use his speed.

Good for thor if he can break ice giant Hulk will be in his corner destroying planets.

Strange needs his hand to cast spell, but whatever.

It's just a concept the writers came with. Yup we're not dealing with Moon Knight lvl that's true, Hulk actually has more: grey, savage, banner, professor, devil, guilt, world breaker. And I'm not even counting the dozens little ones from the mind cave.

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#71 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
@WarMachineMarkV said:

- Iron Man with Extremis

Iron Man gets a new armor like ever 3-4 years....He evolves with technology. 
 
@The Stegman said:
@Super_Gui_1:   1. Sentry's base strength>> Hulk's base strength, technically one or two blows from him should k.o hulk before he gets angerier, however i will admit WWH was heightened, so i change that to maybe five blow  Sentry's Speed>>>>>>>>hulk's reaction time, Hulk should be unconscious before he knew what hit him  2 Thor IS very strong, strong enough to lift that serpent that wrapped around the Earth, strong enough to shatter Frost giants easily, one hit from mjonir should knock hulk out, one lighting bolt should fry him faster than he can heal and obliterate every cell, there should be no way, AT ALL for Hulk to beat Thor without serious PIS  3 Yes, Strange is that powerful, which only adds to the fact that Hulk shouldn't beat him, even if he had tricked him and broke his arms, a handless Strange>>> Hulk with no viable mystic protection   4 How does having multiple personalities stop a telepath? even if it does, it's not like were dealing with Moon Knight numbers of personalities...it's two, one of which who is usually dormant while the other is in control, going up against a man (Xavier) who read the minds of everyone on the planet at once, who had telepathic conversations across solar systems, who has countless battles on the astral plane
You're "Hulk should be unconscious before he knows what hit him" post is wrong. As I said above. Just because Sentry has super speed doesn't mean he knows how to use it properly. Sentry isn't Superman. His combat speed is the same pace as whomever he's fighting. His speed is reserved for transportation and chasing.He may blitz characters but only in a non canon what if was he shown to fight at high speed.
 
Also when has Hulk beaten Thor in a canon comic? 
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#72 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

Would say I'm more tired of people complaining about their favourite characters loosing to one that has limitless potential (not sure how many times its been said in comics that Hulk doesnt have an upper limit) where as theirs mostly have a limit.

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#73 Posted by deactivated-579156ff11b09 (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro

- While it's true that Iron Man updates his a more a lot more often than he used to, Extremis was no mere new model, Tony gained:

1 - a healing factor

2 - heightened immune system

3 - new,better performing organs

4 - the ability to directly interface with technology almost at will

5 - vastly improved intelligence and personal data processing abilities

- Then there are the things like the fight against a Crimson Dynamo during the arc that he pretty much one shots (when in the past they were major fights) that follow the trend I was discussing.

- If Marvel wants to move the character, I'm fine with the character being more cutting edge, just make the changes gradual and keep some kind of balance from him becoming too overpowered. Similar to Hulk and Thor, there are only so many villains you can throw at these characters that are an actual threat, make them more powerful and what are you left to use?

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#74 Posted by RoyalDivinity (3384 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk shouldn't be able to defeat:

Sentry

Thor

Gladiator

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#75 Posted by Hoboseid (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought Zeus giving him a beat down using just his fists was pretty cool

the strongest?

not even close

Zeus pounding the S*%* out of Hulk
Zeus pounding the S*%* out of Hulk
Zeus beating the F*%* outta Hulk
Zeus beating the F*%* outta Hulk
Incredible beat down
Incredible beat down
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#76 Posted by TheWitchingHour (1350 posts) - - Show Bio

I can understand being upset when Hulk wins fights he shouldn't win. It's extremely frustrating to see some characters get the fanboy treatment from the writers while others get the shaft (although I actually really like World War Hulk even though there were a couple of things that should have never come to pass).

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#77 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm tired of people singling out character and acting as if their feats are anymore ridiculous than other characters.

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#78 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
@PunkMastaFlex said:

Hulk shouldn't be able to defeat:

Sentry

Thor

Gladiator

Without plot devices..he hasn't.
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#79 Edited by CATPANEXE (9505 posts) - - Show Bio

On the other hand other characters have their moments. Hulks a brawler. It's like anyone's favorite drama wrestler or jacked up action star. They're going to show him going hard because that's what his legions of fans want to see him doing. Likewise they do the same for other characters that fans look up to for their power. Popeye is going to get some. Superman is going to get some. She-Ra is going to get some. Thor is going to get some. ect. And sometimes when one is getting some, someone else is going to be to one getting gotten, but life goes on, everyone's doing fine and playing Hungry Hungry Hippo's the next day and your favorite big name star is up and ready to show off in their next issue or two.

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#80 Posted by Bloblesstom (144 posts) - - Show Bio

@mutenroshi: Clearly you don't understand what "potential for infinite strength" means. There is no being or group of people that hulk couldn't eventually beat, it all depends on his levels of rage. Also, you are obviously a troll, and trolls are not allowed in comicvine.

Will a moderator please ban this person?

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#81 Posted by RisingBean (9836 posts) - - Show Bio

@bloblesstom: You're more apt to be spoken to by a mod seeing as how this thread you brought back from the dead is over four years old.

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#82 Posted by kgb725 (19658 posts) - - Show Bio

@bloblesstom: Why would you ban someone who may not even be on CV anymore ?

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#83 Posted by GreenScar1990 (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I sick of people whining and complaining about the Hulk winning fights that he should?

Yes.

And I'm sick of those same people whining and complaining solely because they don't like the Hulk?

Yes.

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#84 Posted by Bezza (5019 posts) - - Show Bio

Who brought this thread back? I cant believe someone actually called out another user over a comment they made over 3 years ago...!! What are these people on?

..and yes people should stop whining that Hulk beats up on people. He has always fought teams of characters and more than held his own. Go and read some older comics! He has also always given Thor and other similar powered characters a great battle. He only loses to the surfer because the Surfer can drain the gamma energy out of him. When the Surfer lost his cosmic powers in Planet Hulk he took quite a beating from Hulk.

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#85 Posted by Schwarz (584 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope to me Hulk could beat those he beat because you know what, the writers decided so :)

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#86 Posted by UnderdogSupporter (468 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk doesn't always win fights but it isn't impossible for him to win fights against certain characters.

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