when did Harley Quinn stop being Harley Quinn?

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mickeymayhew

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got the Harley trade for Xmas, refreshed me where her original canon DC universe first appearance was, in the No Man's Land arc; then I referred to the latest issue of the current ongoing Harley series, and...same name, but by god, totally different character. They have allowed her to kick her Joker habit but it was that habit that defined the character, so what are we left with now?! am I wrong to prefer past Harley to current Harley?

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TheExile285

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Still the same character to me. She just has more freedom to be goofy and unhinged.

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Alexander505

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If DC give to Harley healing factor and good fighting skills she becomes Deadpool of the DC Comics

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dernman

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#4  Edited By dernman

@mickeymayhew: No you're not wrong. I also prefer the old version. I was a huge fan of Harley and am so disappointed at what's happened to her. Sadly we're not going to get her back. From what I hear she sells well and pandering to certain vocal crowds..

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makhai

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#5  Edited By makhai
@dernman said:

@mickeymayhew: No you're not wrong. I also prefer the old version. I was a huge fan of Harley and am so disappointed at what's happened to her. Sadly we're not going to get her back. From what I hear she sells well and pandering to certain vocal crowds..

You mean, the majority?

If she is selling well, as opposed to not selling well before (it wasn't selling well at all past the first few issues), then the majority prefers the new Harley. The new volume has consistently made at least twice as much as the old volume.

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makhai

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dernman

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#7  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:
@dernman said:

@mickeymayhew: No you're not wrong. I also prefer the old version. I was a huge fan of Harley and am so disappointed at what's happened to her. Sadly we're not going to get her back. From what I hear she sells well and pandering to certain vocal crowds..

You mean, the majority?

If she is selling well, as opposed to not selling well before (it wasn't selling well at all past the first few issues), then the majority prefers the new Harley. The new volume has consistently made at least twice as much as the old volume.

What majority? The vocal one?

How can you make the comparison of not selling well before when she didn't really have her own book before at least not one known about in main continuity which all tend to do not so well. She was practically untested solo besides animated adaptation and Gotham City Sirens which was a team book

Not to mention her character book started selling well from issue one. Before she was fully established as this new version. How many people went there expecting a true to character Harley and would have continued buying it with the that Harley. For all we know even more. How many buy it now settling for what they have though they prefer the other version? The version that was liked enough that was one of the few non comic created characters that was able to successfully jump from animation to comic with a good following. True a small make over would have been nice. I've seen alternate costumes that could have been better alternatives but that changes in the character were unnecessary and in my opinion not good.

This images you're trying portray like they're facts yeash.

Nice try though.

EDIT: Back on point though... Even if this version is more popular which can be argued what does that have to do with the sentiment and point I was trying to make or are you just assuming more things like you did with most of your post.

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Ready_4_Madness

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She's evolved

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dernman

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makhai

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@dernman said:
@makhai said:
@dernman said:

@mickeymayhew: No you're not wrong. I also prefer the old version. I was a huge fan of Harley and am so disappointed at what's happened to her. Sadly we're not going to get her back. From what I hear she sells well and pandering to certain vocal crowds..

You mean, the majority?

If she is selling well, as opposed to not selling well before (it wasn't selling well at all past the first few issues), then the majority prefers the new Harley. The new volume has consistently made at least twice as much as the old volume.

What majority? The vocal one?

How can you make the comparison of not selling well before when she didn't really have her own book before at least not one known about in main continuity which all tend to do not so well. She was practically untested solo besides animated adaptation and Gotham City Sirens which was a team book

Not to mention her character book started selling well from issue one. Before she was fully established as this new version. How many people went there expecting a true to character Harley and would have continued buying it with the that Harley. For all we know even more. How many buy it now settling for what they have though they prefer the other version? The version that was liked enough that was one of the few non comic created characters that was able to successfully jump from animation to comic with a good following.

This images you're trying portray like they're facts yeash.

Nice try though.

Didn't have her own book before? What is this then? It sold almost 36,000 copies per month for the first few months. That isn't an unknown comic at all. That is quite a respectable number, actually. The problem is that the title couldn't hold onto those numbers and by the time of it's cancellation, only were selling about 14,000 copies per month.

Many titles start well from issue one. That is not an indicator of success. What tells us about a book's success is the staying power of their sales figures. The new volume started at nearly 95,000 copies and stabilized in the 50,000 to 60,000 range. Again, it stabilized in the 50,000 to 60,000 range. That's how we know what people prefer. That's how we know what the expectations of fans are. The new portrayal has significantlybetter selling power.

What I am citing are actually facts though. If you doubt me, feel free to look at the figures yourself:

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

It's the most trusted source on comic book sales figures on the web. The problem with your argument is that you are assuming the vocal minority is the one that caused Harley to change but that's not true at all. The character was changed because you, part of the group of people who loved her older portrayal, were not buying her issues. The new fans are. Whomever actually has the larger fanbase is completely irrelevant to a company that is in the business of making money.

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dernman

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#11  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:
@dernman said:
@makhai said:
@dernman said:

@mickeymayhew: No you're not wrong. I also prefer the old version. I was a huge fan of Harley and am so disappointed at what's happened to her. Sadly we're not going to get her back. From what I hear she sells well and pandering to certain vocal crowds..

You mean, the majority?

If she is selling well, as opposed to not selling well before (it wasn't selling well at all past the first few issues), then the majority prefers the new Harley. The new volume has consistently made at least twice as much as the old volume.

What majority? The vocal one?

How can you make the comparison of not selling well before when she didn't really have her own book before at least not one known about in main continuity which all tend to do not so well. She was practically untested solo besides animated adaptation and Gotham City Sirens which was a team book

Not to mention her character book started selling well from issue one. Before she was fully established as this new version. How many people went there expecting a true to character Harley and would have continued buying it with the that Harley. For all we know even more. How many buy it now settling for what they have though they prefer the other version? The version that was liked enough that was one of the few non comic created characters that was able to successfully jump from animation to comic with a good following.

This images you're trying portray like they're facts yeash.

Nice try though.

Didn't have her own book before? What is this then? It sold almost 36,000 copies per month for the first few months. That isn't an unknown comic at all. That is quite a respectable number, actually. The problem is that the title couldn't hold onto those numbers and by the time of it's cancellation, only were selling about 14,000 copies per month.

Many titles start well from issue one. That is not an indicator of success. What tells us about a book's success is the staying power of their sales figures. The new volume started at nearly 95,000 copies and stabilized in the 50,000 to 60,000 range. Again, it stabilized in the 50,000 to 60,000 range. That's how we know what people prefer. That's how we know what the expectations of fans are. The new portrayal has significantlybetter selling power.

What I am citing are actually facts though. If you doubt me, feel free to look at the figures yourself:

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

It's the most trusted source on comic book sales figures on the web. The problem with your argument is that you are assuming the vocal minority is the one that caused Harley to change but that's not true at all. The character was changed because you, part of the group of people who loved her older portrayal, were not buying her issues. The new fans are. Whomever actually has the larger fanbase is completely irrelevant to a company that is in the business of making money.

Ugh I can see this is going no where. You're making too many points on assumption and not considering other factors.

Take in point your assumption that my argumant has a problem with assuming the vocal minority is is the one that caused the change.

WHere did I ever say it was a vocal major or minority? You're the one who said one over the other. I didn't say it in my first post. I said certain vocal groups. I didn't say it in my second post. I made a question not a statement. What i did sate is we don't really know. THat there are other factors given and not given that can be contributed to her success and being obsessed with Joker isn't it.

THat fact is she was given more of a chance an push now than she had before. Both with the new 52 newness, the media push, make over, and other things. THings I had wanted for the original character but didn't get. You can't know how well she would have done with the advantages this new version has gotten. Many characters don't do well on their first try also. They can try again and be succefull without going off character. As of now we don't have Harley Quinn up there. We have a Deadpool alternative when she was great as she was.

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makhai

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@dernman said:

Ugh I can see this is going no where. You're making too many points on assumption and not considering other factors.

What other factors? You said that she didn't have a previous volume that was well known. I proved that to be wrong.

Take in point your assumption that my argumant has a problem with assuming the vocal minority is is the one that caused the change.

It was inferred based on the context of your posts. Even if that isn't true, it doesn't change the actual facts. You made claims about the new character as opposed to the old. Your claims are wrong.

WHere did I ever say it was a vocal major minority-minority.

This sentence doesn't even make sense. I cannot properly address it, as you seem too flustered to type coherently.

I didn't say it in my first post. I said certain vocal groups.

Which implies a group other than what you also implied was a majority. I cited sales figures and you countered that her title was simply not well known at the time, which implies that had it been well known, the fans would have supported it, which also implies that you believe the fans of the older version were large enough to prevent the change. That is patently false.

I didn't say it in my second post. I made a quetion not a statement.My statement was we don't really know.

Which has been proven to be an incorrect claim of fact, given the data.

THat there are other factors given and not given that can be contributed to her success and being obsessed with Joker isn't it.

What are these vague, mysterious factors?

THat fact is she was given more of a chance an push now than she had before.

Which is untrue. The character has had three total volumes so far. It just so happens that this current version is the most popular.

Both with the new 52 newness, the media push, make over, and other things.

The new volume was successful before the 'media push'. The makeover is part of the character's change, as was the New 52. So they aren't factors that caused the change so much as they are the actual change itself. 'Other things' is not a factor...

THings I had wanted for the original character but didn't get.

Ah. Well you got them now, so this should be your preferred version.

You can't know how well she would have done with the advantages this new version has gotten.

Considering you haven't listed actual advantages she has been given now, I am going to just dismiss this as nonsense. The media push, AKA her inclusion in the SS movie, is a direct result of her and the SS's overwhelming success PRIOR to the movie being made. The movie, as an example, is not the reason why Harley is more popular, she was already more popular and the movie simply compliments that popularity.

As of now we don't have Harley Quinn up there. We have a Deadpool alternative

Purely subjective opinion. I don't care about hurt fandom.

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dernman

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#13  Edited By dernman

@makhai: What other factors?

Read further. There are just a few and not all. Would give more but I'm trying to wind this down. I don't do long discussion here anymore.

It was inferred based on the context of your posts.

Its really not. Any inferring came only from you wrongly making assumptions about what I actually did say and meant. You know basically what matters.

Even if that isn't true, it doesn't change the actual facts.

Accept not all facts are facts because of context of factors are arguable. It depends too much on assumptions.

You made claims about the new character as opposed to the old. Your claims are wrong.

THe only claim I made that was wrong was about the OLD character not having a book because it slipped my mind. Everything else new or old wasn't wrong. It was one thing that doesn't really take away much from my point.

This sentence doesn't even make sense. I cannot properly address it, as you seem too flustered to type coherently.

It does if you read the edit. I said I didn't say it was the majority or the minority.

Which implies a group other than what you also implied was a majority.

No it doesn't. You're wrong again. That is just you inferring what I said.

Which is untrue.

It's not untrue. With promotion, being post 52 changing the DC landscape and other things that wont create even more debate when I'm trying to wind it down. It was a great and better time, moment for her to make an attempt. Timing is a huge factor in a books success.

The new volume was successful before the 'media push'. .

False. The media push was there even before the book came out. Heck the character was being pushed in different ways even before people new about the book. I remember noting it several times when it was happening.

The makeover is part of the character's change, as was the New 52 So they aren't factors that caused the change so much as they are the actual change itself. 'Other things' is not a factor...

No it really isn't. There is nothing much about the making over that couldn't been given to in character Harley.

lol wait are you're trying to contribute new 52 to Harleypool or are you misinterpreting what I said about N52? Harley is just a dop in the bucket of the affect new 52 had on DC universe landscape that was fertile ground of opportunities for things new or old things that otherwise wouldn't do well not to mention it's fans old and new.

What other things are not a factor? How can you say they are not a factor when you they're "vague and mysterious" to you. Don't you think making another statement that is an assumption like that further discredits yourself? Of course not. Your entire argument is based on assumptions and inferring.

Ah. Well you got them now, so this should be your preferred version.

THis makes no sense. I don't got them now because they're not applied to Harley or are you sadly implying that the makeover advantage I was talking about is core elements of the character and not just an extra boost?That would be both sad in you either making another false assumption or thinking that it is even equal to the importance of core elements.

Considering you haven't listed actual advantages she has been given now,

Wait let me stop you there. If thats true then how can you make the statement you did. You've done this a couple times in your argument. You make a definitive statement on these vague things like "other things" and 'now I got them advantages" like you discredited them with an argument then claim they are not there.

Seems to me talking out of you're ass at this point. Between that and your nothing but making assumptions argument why should I take the effort in continuing with something I'm already bored with?

Really not going to read anything but the answer to the bold if even that to see if you have a good enough one. You're nothing but assumptions based argument and my perceived disingenuous of your argument (practices?) has soured me to you.

Purely subjective opinion.

Not so much.

I don't care about hurt fandom.

oh the irony.

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makhai

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#14  Edited By makhai

@dernman said:

Read further. There are just a few and not all. Would give more but I'm trying to wind this down. I don't do long discussion here anymore.

Yeah, but I already explained how you have NOT given factors at all. You simply offered observed changes to the character that were a result of other factors, most likely one of those factors was that she was not able to sell very well in her old portrayal.

Its really not.

I suspect that you might need to look up what infer means.

Any inferring came only from you wrongly making assumptions about what I actually did say and meant. You know basically what matters.

LMAO yup. You need to look it up.

Accept not all facts are facts because of context of factors are arguable. It depends too much on assumptions.

Except* and yes, all of what I cited were actually facts. I made claims based on those facts but the claims are supported by the facts, not the other way around. The only assumption made was that if the fans of the older version are in fact the majority, then they do not like her enough to buy her issues. The newer fans do, which is not an assumption at all, but a fact. If you want to engage me in a debate about facts, I highly recommend you learn how to analyze evidence first.

THe only claim I made that was wrong was about the OLD character not having a book because it slipped my mind. Everything else new or old wasn't wrong. It was one thing that doesn't really take away much from my point.

Considering your other claims weighed heavily on your claim about the older volumes, yes, all your claims are wrong.

It does if you read the edit. I said I didn't say it was the majority or the minority.

Fine. If my inference was wrong, why did try to defend what I had concluded was your argument? If I made an incorrect deduction, you perpetuated that inference by taking up its position.

No it doesn't. You're wrong again. That is just you inferring what I said.

Yeah, based on the context of your argument. Frankly, I am not at all surprised if you are actually telling the truth right now and I did infer incorrectly. You have very little skill in making arguments or creating posts that are coherent. Regardless, what I said about Harley Quinn remains true.

It's not untrue. With promotion, being post 52 changing the DC landscape and other things that wont create even more debate when I'm trying to wind it down. It was a great and better time, moment for her to make an attempt. Timing is a huge factor in a books success.

This is nothing but sputtered sentence fragments. But from what I gather from your posts, you have no idea what you are talking about. Harley Quinn was a regular character on a TV show, had her own two volumes, had many guest appearances, and had promotion of her own prior to the New 52. You're just making up nonsense based on your own, heavily bias and ignorant observations. These are not admissible as facts.

False. The media push was there even before the book came out. Heck the character was being pushed in different ways even before people new about the book. I remember noting it several times when it was happening.

Not false at all. I already showed you how, prior to the announcement of the Suicide Squad movie, Harley's title enjoyed massive success. Her inclusion in the Suicide Squad is largely what led to that's books minor success. Sales for Suicide Squad were in the 30,000 range for just about the entirety of it's existence. Harley is clearly responsible for that because of the radical success of her solo title right after the Suicide Squad ended. As the titular character, she now has all the panel time and her sales figures reflect that increased focus, being up to three times higher than Suicide Squad and up to nine times the amount of issues that her former portrayal enjoyed. You can't just bury your head in the sand because you just love old Harley so much. That's not what an intellectual does when presented with evidence. Harley Quinn wasn't even revealed to be in the Suicide Squad movie until the end of 2014, long after the new Harley Quinn was already enjoying incredible success, which again, started in 2011.

No it really isn't. There is nothing much about the making over that couldn't been given to in character Harley.

I really don't know how to respond to this. The New 52 was part of the change to Harley Quinn. To say otherwise is... odd.

lol wait are you're trying to contribute new 52 to Harleypool or are you misinterpreting what I said about N52?

Contribute? I have to ask, since it is becoming increasingly relevant: are you 12 or is English not your first language? There are a LOT of errors in your posts that burden me with an unnecessary amount of effort just to understand what you are saying.

Harley is just a dop in the bucket of the affect new 52 had on DC universe landscape that was fertile ground of opportunities for things new or old things that otherwise wouldn't do well not to mention it's fans old and new.

This has nothing to do with what was being discussed. Please focus.

What other things are not a factor?

There are no other things you brought up for me to agree or disagree with. Your question is nonsense.

How can you say they are not a factor when you they're "vague and mysterious" to you.

Because your only description of these so-called factors is literally limited to you saying that there were, "other factors". I was being generous by saying you had vague and mysterious factors that you held a little too close to your chest. In all honesty, these unexplained factors are simply rubbish.

Don't you think making another statement that is an assumption like that further discredits yourself? Of course not. Your entire argument is based on assumptions and inferring.

Instead of wasting time on explaining why the above sentence is a poorly thought out one, I will instead recommend that you read up on formal debate.

THis makes no sense.

It does make sense because you ultimately got what you admitted yourself that you were asking for.

I don't got them now because they're not applied to Harley or are you sadly implying that the makeover advantage I was talking about is core elements of the character and not just an extra boost?

Sadly? You are confused. You said you wanted changes applied to the old character. Without explaining what those changes were that you wanted, I simply applied them all. The new Harley is exactly what you wanted, based on your own statement and inability to express yourself.

That would be both sad in you either making another false assumption or thinking that it is even equal to the importance of core elements.

You haven't given specifics on what you actually want. What else can one do than assume you wanted all the changes? Especially when you placed no restrictions on the changes made.

Wait let me stop you there. If thats true then how can you make the statement you did. You've done this a couple times in your argument. You make a definitive statement on these vague things like "other things" and 'now I got them advantages" like you discredited them with an argument then claim they are not there.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be confusing your own argument as mine. It was you who used definitive statements in reference to vague, unexplained factors like 'other things', not me. Because you continually refuse to expand on your previous argument, I will simply dismiss it as zealotry.

Seems to me talking out of you're ass at this point. Between that and your nothing but making assumptions argument why should I take the effort in continuing with something I'm already bored with?

You are not bored, you are confused and desperate. Please review the argument again.

Really not going to read anything but the answer to the bold if even that to see if you have a good enough one.

Sure.

You're nothing but assumptions based argument and my perceived disingenuous of your argument (practices?) has soured me to you.

Again, you'll have to review this argument again, because you clearly got lost somewhere along the way. Follow the breadcrumbs that are my posts.

Not so much.

Please see the definition of both subjective and opinion.

oh the irony.

Please see irony. You don't even know my personal position on either the new or old Harley. Who is making assumptions now?

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dernman

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@makhai:

Yeah, but I already explained how you have NOT given factors at all.

Stopped you right here. I see most of it is more of little worth and only increasing it when I asked well gave the impression I wanted start wraping it up.

But you didn't explain anything. No what you did was make a false claim about a couple factors using not being factors using nonsensical reasoning and expected me to go along with it it wasn't a load of bull. Which is pretty much been everything you've offered from the start. Nothing be ignorant inferring and assumption. Now I asked you to offer me a bit of worth to you argument to make it worth my while and right off the bat you blew it. SO I'm giving your reply the response it deserves.

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wrucebayne

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Harley's definitely a different character now. No one knew how to incorporate Harley into the comics all that well. Rucka knew exactly how to write Harley, and that's because he's a master Batman writer.

After No Man's Land, I really can't think of any Harley appearance where she was the Harley from the show. Hush maybe, and that's the only somewhat compliment I'll give that story.

She ended up being revamped in the New52 in a not so flattering way, but Palmiotti and Conner came along and did their own thing with it. Harley became a huge success, and clearly has a large following. Not a character I care about anymore, but shit happens.

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makhai

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@dernman said:

Stopped you right here. I see most of it is more of little worth and only increasing it when I asked well gave the impression I wanted start wraping it up.

Simply ignoring things that you don't like and saying that there is little worth in someone's argument without explaining why is not a counter-argument.

But you didn't explain anything.

I did explain my position very clearly. I strongly encourage you to read my posts again, if you really did miss it. If you are simply trying to be dismissive well, I don't think you are going to convince anyone that I didn't explain anything when my posts are still clearly visible.

No what you did was make a false claim about a couple factors using not being factors using nonsensical reasoning and expected me to go along with it it wasn't a load of bull.

You understand that my posts clearly prove you wrong here, right? If you are not prepared to address any of my counter arguments, all you are doing is posting garbage. "Nu-uh!" is not an argument.

Which is pretty much been everything you've offered from the start.

Yeah, I can understand why someone like you would think facts and legitimate sources are 'bull'. You don't seem overly concerned with facts and have seemingly completely divorced yourself from reality.

Nothing be ignorant inferring and assumption. Now I asked you to offer me a bit of worth to you argument to make it worth my while and right off the bat you blew it. SO I'm giving your reply the response it deserves.

You gave it a response but you didn't bother addressing a single argument I made. All you did was sputter nonsense. Seriously, these are the ramblings of a child. I certainly hope you aren't this overwhelmingly lazy and incompetent in everything you do. Go back and read my arguments. You will clearly see that all claims I made were well supported. I offered you factual figures from a reliable source that support my assertions. I clearly explained my position using logic and reason.

Is the old Harley as popular as the new one? No, she clearly was not and is not. The new one is vastly superior in terms of popularity and financial success. You can stick your fingers in your ears and shout, 'La-la-la assumptions assumptions la-la you're not saying anything la-la-la" but it will not change the actual facts. Seriously, can you think of what level of intellectual maturity someone who does that sounds like?

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dernman

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@makhai: You must really love the bull shit you're shoveling because I hate to think anyone is that divorced from reality.

The you're whole entire argument is based on assumptions. This whole entire argument is you trying to disprove a point I didn't make and you couldn't even do that right. Instead of owning up to it you just double down. It's pathetic and I'd feel bad for you if if you weren't invoking such disdain.

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Cream_God

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About the same time camwhores started dressing like her

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Outside_85

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#20  Edited By Outside_85

I think it happened when people forgot that the description of her may start with 'cute' but it ends in 'psycopath'.

Yeah, I am not really a fan of her kicking the Joker addiction (for now) either, her devotion to him shouldn't be something she can be comepletely rid of. But that said, her Loony Toon persona is able to stand on it's own so I am fine with her going off on her own goofy adventures... if only DC would stop cramming her into and onto everything, like the Suicide Squad, thats just not a place I think she belongs at... it's like adding Deadpool to the Kyle/Yost X-Force.

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makhai

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@dernman: So the best you are capable of is stealing my lines and trying (and failing) to use them against me? No wonder the old Harley was changed. Her best and brightest couldn't figure out how to use a map to find a comic book store or the concept of money. Also, if you try to defend a point, whether or not it was your original point, it becomes your point and you are just as responsible for that's argument's failure as if it had been your own. Just an FYI.

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Ready_4_Madness

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@dernman: I can read a book and still identify her as Harley. I have no problem with her being slightly different to what she was 18 years ago.

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dernman

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#23  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:

@dernman: So the best you are capable of is stealing my lines and trying (and failing) to use them against me? No wonder the old Harley was changed. Her best and brightest couldn't figure out how to use a map to find a comic book store or the concept of money. Also, if you try to defend a point, whether or not it was your original point, it becomes your point and you are just as responsible for that's argument's failure as if it had been your own. Just an FYI.

lol step out of the pile of shit you've dug out of you're self. I haven't bothered to even read your last two posts or really tried debating you because your argument is crap and it's not worth the effort. Your failure to comprehend anything shows that. I didn't even make that point you keep insisting that I made first OR LATER. My point never was who was more or less liked. I never argued EITHER was had the vocal majority/minority. THis is just you and your butt hurt making shit up in you head.

Come on step into reality because it doesn't matter what you say as long as you keep arguing against certain points I've never taken you'll just keep making a fool out of yourself.

Have the last word or whatever. It doesn't matter just like your argument.

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makhai

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@dernman said:

lol step out of the pile of shit you've dug out of you're self. I haven't bothered to even read your last two posts or really tried debating you because your argument is crap and it's not worth the effort. Your failure to comprehend anything shows that. I didn't even make that point you keep insisting that I made first OR LATER. My point never was who was more or less liked. I never argued EITHER was had the vocal majority/minority. THis is just you and your butt hurt making shit up in you head.

Come on step into reality because it doesn't matter what you say as long as you keep arguing against certain points I've never taken you'll just keep making a fool out of yourself.

Have the last word or whatever. It doesn't matter just like your argument.

  • In my experience, everyone who says they aren't reading posts they don't like is in fact, lying.
  • If my argument was crap, you would have been able to defeat me in an intellectual debate, rather than whining about what you think assumptions or to infer means.
  • Oh please. You have specifically shown that you barely understand half of the three syllable words that you have tried to used here.
  • You did argue about majority/minority. It was the very first thing I asked you about. I asked you if you were talking about the majority when you bemoaned the pandering to a "certain vocal crowd". You challenged that question by arguing that people simply didn't know about the old version of Harley, which I proved to be completely false. You claimed that she never had her own series in the main continuity to boost her popularity, which I proved to be completely false. As far as fans go, you have to be the most ignorant person ever in regards to Harley Quinn knowledge. It seems to me that your fandom extends only to her classic spandex and nothing else.
  • I am enjoying reality as of right now. Specifically the reality of your claims being hopelessly incorrect and the reality of me pointing that fact out for everyone to see while you spin your proverbial wheels by literally ripping off my own lines and ineffectively trying to use them to zing me. Your behavior is textbook for someone who is way out of his league in terms of debating prowess but who is desperate to sound like he had some kind of victory. Buddy, this isn't even my final form.
  • Thanks for offering the last word, though I would have taken it anyway.
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racksonracksonracks

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If DC give to Harley healing factor and good fighting skills she becomes Deadpool of the DC Comics

yo, so she funny an crazy so she gotta be a rippoff? look like u tryna throw shade

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dernman

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#27  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:
@dernman said:

lol step out of the pile of shit you've dug out of you're self. I haven't bothered to even read your last two posts or really tried debating you because your argument is crap and it's not worth the effort. Your failure to comprehend anything shows that. I didn't even make that point you keep insisting that I made first OR LATER. My point never was who was more or less liked. I never argued EITHER was had the vocal majority/minority. THis is just you and your butt hurt making shit up in you head.

Come on step into reality because it doesn't matter what you say as long as you keep arguing against certain points I've never taken you'll just keep making a fool out of yourself.

Have the last word or whatever. It doesn't matter just like your argument.

  • In my experience, everyone who says they aren't reading posts they don't like is in fact, lying.
  • If my argument was crap, you would have been able to defeat me in an intellectual debate, rather than whining about what you think assumptions or to infer means.
  • Oh please. You have specifically shown that you barely understand half of the three syllable words that you have tried to used here.
  • You did argue about majority/minority. It was the very first thing I asked you about. I asked you if you were talking about the majority when you bemoaned the pandering to a "certain vocal crowd". You challenged that question by arguing that people simply didn't know about the old version of Harley, which I proved to be completely false. You claimed that she never had her own series in the main continuity to boost her popularity, which I proved to be completely false. As far as fans go, you have to be the most ignorant person ever in regards to Harley Quinn knowledge. It seems to me that your fandom extends only to her classic spandex and nothing else.
  • I am enjoying reality as of right now. Specifically the reality of your claims being hopelessly incorrect and the reality of me pointing that fact out for everyone to see while you spin your proverbial wheels by literally ripping off my own lines and ineffectively trying to use them to zing me. Your behavior is textbook for someone who is way out of his league in terms of debating prowess but who is desperate to sound like he had some kind of victory. Buddy, this isn't even my final form.
  • Thanks for offering the last word, though I would have taken it anyway.

Still didn't read. I'm just going to assume it's a load of bull like the rest of it. Full of you talking out of your ass, digging yourself deeper trying to save face because you messed up and are not big enough to admit it.

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makhai

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@dernman said:

Still didn't read. I'm just going to assume it's a load of bull like the rest of it. Full of you talking out of your ass, digging yourself deeper trying to save face because you messed up and are not big enough to admit it.

How would you know if you didn't actually read it? Not that it matters. I clearly embarrassed you to the point that you had to resort to childish tactics. For someone who claims to be done with the argument, you sure are showing the need to continue it, which is hilarious. I however, feel like you have been proven wrong and can confidently leave this exchange.

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#29  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:
@dernman said:

Still didn't read. I'm just going to assume it's a load of bull like the rest of it. Full of you talking out of your ass, digging yourself deeper trying to save face because you messed up and are not big enough to admit it.

How would you know if you didn't actually read it?

Read about this much before I realized it was one of your posts.

How do I know? geese you're just not even trying to comprehend are you?I previously said I stopped reading your posts that means I did read those before. Obviously I was talking about that. How would I know that last post was just like those I read? I explicitly said I was going to assume.

You're like your worst enemy at this point. You're doing all the heavy lifting to make you look bad. Maybe I really should start feeling bad for you.

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makhai

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@dernman: Actually, I was referring to your previous claim where you also said you weren't reading it. You were making a claim in ignorance. I merely pointed it out, just like I pointed out your factually inaccurate claim that Harley didn't have her own volume.

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#31  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:

@dernman: Actually, I was referring to your previous claim where you also said you weren't reading it. You were making a claim in ignorance. I merely pointed it out, just like I pointed out your factually inaccurate claim that Harley didn't have her own volume.

Oh for heavens sake. Obviously because I assumed it was you continuing along the same vein as previous posts. Either defending your point, attacking a point I never made, and never correcting yourself. You telling me I'm wrong. Have you reversed your position? No? then blah blah.

I guess it's my fault for taking it for granted that you might get that. I shouldn't have expected so much from you.

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makhai

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@dernman said:
@makhai said:

@dernman: Actually, I was referring to your previous claim where you also said you weren't reading it. You were making a claim in ignorance. I merely pointed it out, just like I pointed out your factually inaccurate claim that Harley didn't have her own volume.

Oh for heavens sake. Obviously because I assumed it was you continuing along the same vein as previous posts. Either defending your point, attacking a point I never made, and never correcting yourself. You telling me I'm wrong. Have you reversed your position? No? then blah blah.

I guess it's my fault for taking it for granted that you might get that. I shouldn't have expected so much from you.

So you attacked me for making what you think were assumptions, even though I clearly explained how they were not, and now you are making assumptions yourself? Quite the intelligent hypocrite, aren't you?

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#33  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:
@dernman said:
@makhai said:

@dernman: Actually, I was referring to your previous claim where you also said you weren't reading it. You were making a claim in ignorance. I merely pointed it out, just like I pointed out your factually inaccurate claim that Harley didn't have her own volume.

Oh for heavens sake. Obviously because I assumed it was you continuing along the same vein as previous posts. Either defending your point, attacking a point I never made, and never correcting yourself. You telling me I'm wrong. Have you reversed your position? No? then blah blah.

I guess it's my fault for taking it for granted that you might get that. I shouldn't have expected so much from you.

So you attacked me for making what you think were assumptions, even though I clearly explained how they were not, and now you are making assumptions yourself? Quite the intelligent hypocrite, aren't you?

Oh boy now I do feel bad for you. The difference is the assumption is based on the acknowledgement itself as such. I've also notice you didn't say if you reversed your position or not. Which could easily lead me to the assumption that you didn't reverse your stance which further weaken your point.

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makhai

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@dernman said:

Oh boy now I do feel bad for you. The difference is it's based on the acknowledgement of it as assumption. I've also notice you didn't say if you reversed your position or not. Which could easily lead me to the assumption that you didn't reverse your stance weaken your point.

Do you have nothing to offer other than trolling?

What position specifically were you confused about? I would be happy to explain myself (again) if you require it.

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#35  Edited By dernman

@makhai:

Do you have nothing to offer other than trolling?

So the game now is to ignore me explaining and trying to set you strait now?

What position specifically were you confused about? I would be happy to explain myself (again) if you require it.

Oh boy yeah I really do feel bad for you now. Advice read slowly and repeat if you have too. You're the one who has shown he's confused. I'm the one that stopped reading because you were not grasping it.

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makhai

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@dernman said:

@makhai:

Do you have nothing to offer other than trolling?

So the game now is to ignore me explaining and trying to set you strait now?

What position specifically were you confused about? I would be happy to explain myself (again) if you require it.

Oh boy yeah I really do feel bad for you now. Advice read slowly and repeat if you have too. You're the one who has shown he's confused. I'm the one that stopped reading because you were not grasping it.

You aren't trying to set anything straight, as evinced by your very next sentence.

Perhaps my restating my original argument will help you focus and get back on track.

  • You claimed that DC was pandering to a certain vocal group.
  • I asked you if you meant the vocal majority?
  • You challenged that question by claiming that they were not the actual majority and that comparisons could not be made simply because the old Harley did not have her own volume to be measured against the new one.
  • I proved that to be false.
  • You claimed that her new volume was popular prior to being established as a character in the New 52. I proved that to be wrong by showing that her popularity is largely what carried her team book.
  • You claimed that there were factors that contributed to her current success. When asked for what those factors were, you replied with not factors of change but with the change itself and then you added that there were "other factors" but refused to explain what those factors were, despite the fact that I asked for them.
  • After your humiliation, you turned into a child by making baseless accusations, evasive tactics, and sticking your fingers in your ear and saying, "Nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh".
  • And now we are at the present, where you continually lie about reading my posts and basically just say, "Nyah nyah ur sooo confuzd". It's about as pathetic as it sounds.
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#37  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:
@dernman said:

@makhai:

Do you have nothing to offer other than trolling?

So the game now is to ignore me explaining and trying to set you strait now?

What position specifically were you confused about? I would be happy to explain myself (again) if you require it.

Oh boy yeah I really do feel bad for you now. Advice read slowly and repeat if you have too. You're the one who has shown he's confused. I'm the one that stopped reading because you were not grasping it.

You aren't trying to set anything straight, as evinced by your very next sentence.

Perhaps my restating my original argument will help you focus and get back on track.

  • You claimed that DC was pandering to a certain vocal group.
  • I asked you if you meant the vocal majority?
  • You challenged that question by claiming that they were not the actual majority and that comparisons could not be made simply because the old Harley did not have her own volume to be measured against the new one.
  • I proved that to be false.
  • You claimed that her new volume was popular prior to being established as a character in the New 52. I proved that to be wrong by showing that her popularity is largely what carried her team book.
  • You claimed that there were factors that contributed to her current success. When asked for what those factors were, you replied with not factors of change but with the change itself and then you added that there were "other factors" but refused to explain what those factors were, despite the fact that I asked for them.
  • After your humiliation, you turned into a child by making baseless accusations, evasive tactics, and sticking your fingers in your ear and saying, "Nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh".
  • And now we are at the present, where you continually lie about reading my posts and basically just say, "Nyah nyah ur sooo confuzd". It's about as pathetic as it sounds.

and I'm back to not reading. Remember back when I said something about worth? Actually I'm not sure if I didn't edit it out. Basically it was about winding down. I haven't seen anything from you to justify the effort in doing longer post with you. That hasn't changed.

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makhai

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@dernman said:

and I'm back to not reading. Remember back when I said something about worth? Actually I'm not sure if I didn't edit out. Basically I wanted to wind it down because I haven't seen anything from you to justify the effort in doing longer post with you. That hasn't changed.

I'm making my position very clear.

Perhaps my restating my original argument will help you focus and get back on track.

  • You claimed that DC was pandering to a certain vocal group.
  • I asked you if you meant the vocal majority?
  • You challenged that question by claiming that they were not the actual majority and that comparisons could not be made simply because the old Harley did not have her own volume to be measured against the new one.
  • I proved that to be false.
  • You claimed that her new volume was popular prior to being established as a character in the New 52. I proved that to be wrong by showing that her popularity is largely what carried her team book.
  • You claimed that there were factors that contributed to her current success. When asked for what those factors were, you replied with not factors of change but with the change itself and then you added that there were "other factors" but refused to explain what those factors were, despite the fact that I asked for them.
  • After your humiliation, you turned into a child by making baseless accusations, evasive tactics, and sticking your fingers in your ear and saying, "Nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh".
  • And now we are at the present, where you continually lie about reading my posts and basically just say, "Nyah nyah ur sooo confuzd". It's about as pathetic as it sounds.
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the_stegman

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#39 the_stegman  Moderator

I'm glad she's more than just Joker's Girlfriend.

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makhai

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I'm glad she's more than just Joker's Girlfriend.

Me too.

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#41  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:
@dernman said:

and I'm back to not reading. Remember back when I said something about worth? Actually I'm not sure if I didn't edit out. Basically I wanted to wind it down because I haven't seen anything from you to justify the effort in doing longer post with you. That hasn't changed.

I'm making my position very clear.

Perhaps my restating my original argument will help you focus and get back on track.

  • You claimed that DC was pandering to a certain vocal group.
  • I asked you if you meant the vocal majority?
  • You challenged that question by claiming that they were not the actual majority and that comparisons could not be made simply because the old Harley did not have her own volume to be measured against the new one.
  • I proved that to be false.
  • You claimed that her new volume was popular prior to being established as a character in the New 52. I proved that to be wrong by showing that her popularity is largely what carried her team book.
  • You claimed that there were factors that contributed to her current success. When asked for what those factors were, you replied with not factors of change but with the change itself and then you added that there were "other factors" but refused to explain what those factors were, despite the fact that I asked for them.
  • After your humiliation, you turned into a child by making baseless accusations, evasive tactics, and sticking your fingers in your ear and saying, "Nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh".
  • And now we are at the present, where you continually lie about reading my posts and basically just say, "Nyah nyah ur sooo confuzd". It's about as pathetic as it sounds.

Yep still not reading and still assuming you're shoveling the bull shit like always.

Edit: oops I skimmed it after posting. yeah from what I skimmed it looks like my assumption was a good one. Again only skimmed so take it for that

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makhai

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@dernman said:

Yep still not reading and still assuming you're shoveling the bull shit like always.

I'm making my position very clear.

Perhaps my restating my original argument will help you focus and get back on track.

  • You claimed that DC was pandering to a certain vocal group.
  • I asked you if you meant the vocal majority?
  • You challenged that question by claiming that they were not the actual majority and that comparisons could not be made simply because the old Harley did not have her own volume to be measured against the new one.
  • I proved that to be false.
  • You claimed that her new volume was popular prior to being established as a character in the New 52. I proved that to be wrong by showing that her popularity is largely what carried her team book.
  • You claimed that there were factors that contributed to her current success. When asked for what those factors were, you replied with not factors of change but with the change itself and then you added that there were "other factors" but refused to explain what those factors were, despite the fact that I asked for them.
  • After your humiliation, you turned into a child by making baseless accusations, evasive tactics, and sticking your fingers in your ear and saying, "Nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh".
  • And now we are at the present, where you continually lie about reading my posts and basically just say, "Nyah nyah ur sooo confuzd". It's about as pathetic as it sounds.
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dernman

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#43  Edited By dernman

@makhai said:
@dernman said:

Yep still not reading and still assuming you're shoveling the bull shit like always.

I'm making my position very clear.

and I keep not reading. Keep going though. This is starting to be fun.

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makhai

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@dernman said:

and I keep not reading. Keep going though. This is starting to be fun.

At this point, it's pretty obvious that I am not posting for your sake. I am posting it so everyone can see the spanking I gave you.

  • You claimed that DC was pandering to a certain vocal group.
  • I asked you if you meant the vocal majority?
  • You challenged that question by claiming that they were not the actual majority and that comparisons could not be made simply because the old Harley did not have her own volume to be measured against the new one.
  • I proved that to be false.
  • You claimed that her new volume was popular prior to being established as a character in the New 52. I proved that to be wrong by showing that her popularity is largely what carried her team book.
  • You claimed that there were factors that contributed to her current success. When asked for what those factors were, you replied with not factors of change but with the change itself and then you added that there were "other factors" but refused to explain what those factors were, despite the fact that I asked for them.
  • After your humiliation, you turned into a child by making baseless accusations, evasive tactics, and sticking your fingers in your ear and saying, "Nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh".
  • And now we are at the present, where you continually lie about reading my posts and basically just say, "Nyah nyah ur sooo confuzd". It's about as pathetic as it sounds.
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dernman

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@makhai said:
@dernman said:

and I keep not reading. Keep going though. This is starting to be fun.

I'd ask if you type this out each time because that would make it even better but I'm not reading so I wouldn't see it.

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I'm glad she's more than just Joker's Girlfriend.

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dernman

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#47  Edited By dernman

@warrior100 said:
@the_stegman said:

I'm glad she's more than just Joker's Girlfriend.

She could have been that and still keep the obsession. Most of us who liked her before saw that when she wasn't around him because she was.

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the_stegman

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#48 the_stegman  Moderator

@dernman: Nope, not me. She's developed more as a character, glad she's past her Joker trouble.

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#49  Edited By dernman

@the_stegman said:

@dernman: Nope, not me. She's developed more as a character, glad she's past her Joker trouble.

I did. Sure you could argue they didn't show it well enough (not my opinion) but they're not mutually exclusive concepts.

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