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    Harley Quinn

    Character » Harley Quinn appears in 2585 issues.

    Harleen Quinzel was a psychiatric resident at Arkham Asylum, where she met the incarcerated Joker. Falling in love with her patient, she conspired to break him out of prison and eventually became his lover and loyal sidekick, Harley Quinn. She eventually left him to be her own woman, and has been enemy and ally of Batman, and various other heroes.

    How would you feel about this?

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    safefruitcake

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    #1  Edited By safefruitcake

    I was thinking about how to make Harley and Jokers relationship better. I decided, what if whatever she took from Mr J, she dished out in equal to him, like if Joker gets mad and hits her, she turns around and hits him back. I also though to give her a bigger role, she and Joker should be a Bonnie and Clyde duo, who bicker and fight, verbally and physically.

    By the way, I was thinking of this for the Suicide Squad movie.

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    RDClip

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    #2  Edited By RDClip

    Nope. Harley is a kind of tragic character because she is an abusive relationship, but she still loves Joker. He dominates her, but she still stays. She is the comic book version of battered wife syndrome. That is a core faucet of the character.

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    daldrete7

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    @rdclip: That doesn't mean she can't change. Just because she started off that way does not mean she must remain that way forever. Harley is better off without the Joker, and he's better off without her as well. We've seen it proven numerous times in the old and new comics, and animated series: Harley doesn't need the Joker, but does occasionally miss him from time to time. Joker, on the other hand, needs her more, but usually as a partner in crime or as a scapegoat, and he despises being upstaged because he knows there are things Harley can do and has done better than he can and did.

    If they were to be written being back together again, then they should be written as complete equals: Sid and Nancy, Mickey and Mallory, Bonnie and Clyde, and so on. Honestly, Joker and Harley are better of separated, because then their characters become more interesting. However, at best, they would make excellent collaborators in crime with NO romance or intimacy of any kind, on any level whatsoever.

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    RDClip

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    #4  Edited By RDClip

    @daldrete7: They don't need to be together, but being with the Joker is Harley's origin and defining attribute. She is a great character on her own, but we always have to be aware that she is who she is because of the Joker.

    No, Harley and Joker shouldn't be equals, ever. If Harley constantly shows confidence against the Joker, then that damages him as a character, showing him as too weak to stand up to his former subordinate. Harley can rebel rarely, but Joker needs to be, in the vast majority of time, the dominate one in the relationship.

    Like I said in my previous post, Harley being the victim of abuse, but still loving Joker gives depth and pathos to the character. Rather than being a standard villain, Harley has a bit of tragedy to her. That makes her immensly more interesting than a villain who as some vague tragic backstory. Harley's tragedy is ever-present and ongoing.

    Joker and Harley was created to be a novelty, because he has never before (as far as I know) been shown to have a girlfriend. It was something different and remarkable at the time. To have them work together without that romantic/sexual relationship makes Harley completely pointless. It adds a new layer to the Joker's character and give Harley most of her character motivation (in her origin, at least).

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    daldrete7

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    #5  Edited By daldrete7

    @rdclip: Everything you said was very constructive and objective, and now I understand why you prefer the original Harley over the new Harley. I guess it's all a matter of personal opinion and taste. Me, personally, I prefer Harley as a strong-hearted, free-willed, Joker-free, independent, and relate-able character rather than a poster girl for abuse and domestic violence. Whereas I like the Joker more as a sociopathic murderer who loves no one but himself, rather than a poorly misunderstood creature. I'm not sure if it's the official one, but the Joker's origin was explained in Batman: the Killing Joke, and he did have a wife and unborn child. As usual, most fans prefer Joker with an origin yet to be revealed, or having no origin at all. Interestingly, his origin in The Killing Joke may explain why he's so abusive towards Harley. The pain of losing his wife and unborn child was so unbearable, he never wanted to feel or remember that pain again, and therefore he rejects any romantic gestures from Harley.

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    safefruitcake

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    @rdclip: I added to the OP that this would be how I think she should be in the Suicide Squad (the movie) not the comic books, if that makes a difference to your opinion :)

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    RDClip

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    @safefruitcake: Nope, SS should follow the comic origin and characterization of Harley. Like I said before, that bit of tragedy makes Harley more deeper and more interesting. Such a character would be unlike anything moviegoers have seen before.

    Harley shouldn't spend the movie pining after the Joker. But, they should go the way of Assault on Arkham with a intially independant Harley who eventually falls back under the Joker's influence.

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    safefruitcake

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    @rdclip: Fair enough. I just don't like when they take her obsession with the Joker too far and she ends up looking kind of dumb.

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    Dr_Harlequin

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    #9  Edited By Dr_Harlequin

    @rdclip: Did she really fall back under the Joker's influence? I don't remember it focusing much on going back with the Joker other than her trying to protect Deadshot, then have a bomb ready for this Joker and later helping him with his plan. I didn't really get her in AoA.

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    RDClip

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    @dr_harlequin: Well she said to Batman "He might knock me around, but you're the on whose always hurting me" (or something pretty close to that) about the Joker. It makes it pretty clear that she went back to battered-wife mode.

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    Dr_Harlequin

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    @rdclip: I still don't understand since she tried to kill him, and then went with him to save Deadshot. And I still don't know how that line makes it clear she was going back to him. I actually thought it was more of a joke about them actually fighting.

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    daldrete7

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    In Assault on Arkham, Harley wasn't really taking back the Joker. She was lying in order to save Deadshot. In the chopper, Harley had the gun aimed at Joker, but couldn't kill him because the alarm went off and therefore she was forced to pilot the chopper.

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    Vivke

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    #14  Edited By Vivke

    Joker and Harley are not Bonnie and Clyde and never can be. This is mostly the fantasy of people who overly romanticize the relationship of Harley and Joker. I blame it on Paul Dini because he did play with this silly idea in some comics, though it turned up mostly in kid's comics. But it literally contradicts with who Joker really is.

    You just can't humanize Joker that much. You. just. can't. That takes away from his evilness, from his cruelness and make him more sympathetic or even victimized which is a terrible idea. He is not that in 90% of his incarnations. He cannot love the way many Harley/Joker fans want him to.

    Also Harley cannot strike back at him most of the time:. 1. because she is submissive to him 2. she believes Joker is just a little bit violent nothing much but deep down he loves her for sure. Yikes.

    They won't tone down Joker for Harley to show that deep down he does have a normal human heart. He is a villain for god's sake. The only way he can feel love is through obsession. And in lots of instances the the subject of his obsession is Batman, the only person he respects as an equal.

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