3 years ago this thought would have been completely unfathomable to me... 3 years ago, Green Lantern was one of the best books out... it had characters you could identify with and relate to...

then came Rebirth... then came the Sinestro Corps war... which, and don't get me wrong here, were amazing events for all of DC and brought Green Lantern into the mainstream again, but i believe they have actually killed the spirit of Green Lantern comics right off...

so now it comes to this, thanks to a writer by the name of Geoff Johns, who i now completely loathe and will be avoiding anything he even touches from now on, i have completely dropped Green Lantern and Green Lantern Corps from my pull list at my comic store... needless to say, as i have been collecting Green Lantern comics since 1987, that's over 20 years of reading, my comic store owner was shocked...

I just can't do it anymore... the needless Retcons, the character bashing... the endless changes to the well known universe of Green Lantern... i just can't take it anymore... it's got to a point where i can't actually pick up a Green Lantern comic and enjoy it, my main thought is "Oh god, what the f**k have they changed this issue..."

I was going through this with several friends on the GL message board and even some of the moderators and admin, who have been reading Green Lantern for 30 / 40 years have now dropped the comic...

we've even discovered that Mr Retcon (Geoff Johns) has actually been making stuff up as he goes along, such as the fabled Lethal Force Law, which didn't actually exist until Johns took control of Green Lantern for the Rebirth series, which he then altered during the Sinestro Corps War for shock value... not the style of a good writer if you ask me...

but i'm not the only one doing it... at the end of Kyle's run in Green Lantern 181, the issue was selling around 150,000 copies just in the US... the sales figures to date show exactly what's going on with the book...

If you like a character, a team, a comic, you shouldn't go after what others think, who cares what the sales say, you wouldnt jump off a bridge just cuz the cool kids do it too... or would you?

"If you like a character, a team, a comic, you shouldn't go after what others think, who cares what the sales say, you wouldnt jump off a bridge just cuz the cool kids do it too... or would you?"

you beat me to it

I agree that Johns has done a crap job on GL.  The whole "it hurts like hell every time we make a contruct" retcon was yet another dumb idea.  I'd stay away from his Action Comics issues as well.

But I wouldn't avoid him altogether.  His runs on the Flash, JSA and Booster Gold are all excellent.  Much as I disagree with Graduation Day and the disbanding of Young Justice, he did a pretty good job on Teen Titans as well.

 Overall, he's still one of the best writers DC has.

"Voidheart said:

"If you like a character, a team, a comic, you shouldn't go after what others think, who cares what the sales say, you wouldnt jump off a bridge just cuz the cool kids do it too... or would you?"

It's not about the sales that he's quiting, read the post carefully. he just showed the sales to show he wasn't the only one that felt this way.

"I just can't do it anymore... the needless Retcons, the character bashing... the endless changes to the well known universe of Green Lantern... i just can't take it anymore... it's got to a point where i can't actually pick up a Green Lantern comic and enjoy it, my main thought is "Oh god, what the f**k have they changed this issue...""

"The dead shall rise."

I'm sorry you all feel that way  I've always liked GL and GLC but I never collected GL until the story with the SC back ups  and have enjoied every ishue thus far and I've been geting GLC sence the relonch and it has not let me down yet

I think you sould give Geoff anuther chance but if you don't  I under stand I still hate JW for the BS that was Astonishing X-men

I dropped the GL titles right after the Sinestro Corps War... not only is Johns a hack who half the time is only re-hashing Alan Moore stories, but I'm tired of DC's collective noses being firmly up John's bum.

Wtf

I'm sorry for your loss, Methos. =[

Well I have not been reading GL for as long as M I really started with rebirth and the sinestro corps and thats it......I thought those were very good and they made me really like GL books....I guess I would need further explainations of how hes messed it up I mean M you stated a lot of ways hes done things poorly.

I really johns i thinks hes one of DC's best second only to morrison... but I know how you feel I hate mcDuffy on JLA and I dont buy that book anymore.

Rebirth was a separate run than the current GL run.

Those sales numbers don't seem right (source?). I found where the guy posted them, and he doesn't say where he got them from. There is no way in hell the first 3 issues sold over 100k. I was working at a comic book store during that time and the sales of that in our company were 25% less than Sinestro Corps War. (Our company being 9 stores in the Chicagoland area)

Long run Opinions don't change in one night :)

"I dropped the GL titles right after the Sinestro Corps War... not only is Johns a hack who half the time is only re-hashing Alan Moore stories, but I'm tired of DC's collective noses being firmly up John's bum."

"I agree that Johns has done a crap job on GL.  The whole "it hurts like hell every time we make a contruct" retcon was yet another dumb idea.  I'd stay away from his Action Comics issues as well.

I agree about the retcons. The whole emotion thing is stupid, and, from a psychologist's point of view, completely wrong. But I can't stop reading, I need to know what happens up until final night....

"I agree about the retcons. The whole emotion thing is stupid, and, from a psychologist's point of view, completely wrong. But I can't stop reading, I need to know what happens up until final night...."

You know what's scary?

GJ is doing Flash next.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out the speed force is actually an expression of our subconscious desire for speed given form by the quintessence, or something like that.

i suddenly feel physically ill......

M

"You know what's scary?

GJ is doing Flash next.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out the speed force is actually an expression of our subconscious desire for speed given form by the quintessence, or something like that."

"If you like a character, a team, a comic, you shouldn't go after what others think, who cares what the sales say, you wouldnt jump off a bridge just cuz the cool kids do it too... or would you?"

The book needs to change, all comics have to change, evolve with new styles, storylines, and other things being applied in other books. Otherwise, you end up becoming Claremont, writing the same stories from 30-something years prior that had great depth back then, but none now.

Satyrquaze said:

"half the time is only re-hashing Alan Moore stories"

Half the time?  Besides Darkest Night, what stories of Moore's is he using exactly?

AtPhantom said:

"You know what's scary?

GJ is doing Flash next."

Jake Malcom said:

"Johns f@#ks with Flash..."

Are you guys kidding?  Johns' previous Flash run and Rogues Revenge (also by Johns) are just about the only good Flash stories in the past decade.  There is no better Flash writer.

There's no Flash to mess up anyways.  Every issue of the Flash since Johns left the book has sucked.  It can only go up from here.

Serioiusly, Green Lantern has been kinda eh lately

"Serioiusly, Green Lantern has been kinda eh lately"

"Are you guys kidding?  Johns' previous Flash run and Rogues Revenge (also by Johns) are just about the only good Flash stories in the past decade.  There is no better Flash writer.

There's no Flash to mess up anyways.  Every issue of the Flash since Johns left the book has sucked.  It can only go up from here."

"Nobody said:

"Serioiusly, Green Lantern has been kinda eh lately"

Not every issue is going to be amazing, especially when it's all set-up"

Hate is forbidden in the GL corps? Love & Compation too? I see revolts

"Hate is forbidden in the GL corps? Love & Compation too? I see revolts"

"Voidheart said:

"Hate is forbidden in the GL corps? Love & Compation too? I see revolts"

Are they Jedi's now?"

"Nobody said:

"Voidheart said:

"Hate is forbidden in the GL corps? Love & Compation too? I see revolts"

Are they Jedi's now?"

lol."

I will not be satisfied until Hal Jordan gets a light saber...

Amazing that in thirty years no green lantern actually thought of making one with a ring... I would expect Kyle to do it all the time.

"Zoom said:

"Are you guys kidding?  Johns' previous Flash run and Rogues Revenge (also by Johns) are just about the only good Flash stories in the past decade.  There is no better Flash writer.

There's no Flash to mess up anyways.  Every issue of the Flash since Johns left the book has sucked.  It can only go up from here."

Don't get me wrong, I love Johns' writing, I enjoyed Gl rebirth, I love the JSA, and Sinestro Corps kicked a$$.

It's his retcons I have problem with, i don't mind him doing flash, so long as he doesn't think of something like: "the flashes can move so fast because they have a part of Mercury's dna in them, and now Barry Allen is borught back in order to revive a dead god""

"AtPhantom said:

"Zoom said:

"Are you guys kidding?  Johns' previous Flash run and Rogues Revenge (also by Johns) are just about the only good Flash stories in the past decade.  There is no better Flash writer.

There's no Flash to mess up anyways.  Every issue of the Flash since Johns left the book has sucked.  It can only go up from here."

Don't get me wrong, I love Johns' writing, I enjoyed Gl rebirth, I love the JSA, and Sinestro Corps kicked a$$.

It's his retcons I have problem with, i don't mind him doing flash, so long as he doesn't think of something like: "the flashes can move so fast because they have a part of Mercury's dna in them, and now Barry Allen is borught back in order to revive a dead god""

And you would think he would do that....why?

Do you even read the Flash?"

Well that explains it.  I can sympathize with you worrying about retcons but specifically saying that Johns on Flash is a scary thought sounds like you trying to tell me that Alan Moore is gonna do another Swamp Thing run and you think it's gonna suck or that Marv Wolfman is taking over Titans but you wish they'd just stick with Judd Winnick.  It just sounds ridiculous and uninformed.  Johns is hands down the best Flash writer we've ever had.  After Gungenhiem, Peyer and Waid, Flash fans are overjoyed at the idea of him returning, not scared.

As for his retcons on GL, I won't say I agree with them but the book needed to go somewhere.  Unlike the Flash, Superman or Batman, Green Lantern doesn't have a healthy legacy of villains to use.  Sinestro and Nero are just about the only bad guys who are worth reading about.  Star Saphire is okay.  This whole war of light thing is pretty off the wall and silly when you stop to think about it (especially because Willpower isn't an emotion) but at least there are recognizable GL bad guys now.  At least everybody who even reads a little DC knows who Sinestro is now.

I suspect part of the sales drop (certainly not all of it) is due to Hal as a main character.  Sure, he's the "greatest lantern" but he's bland and uninteresting.  I know I dropped GL for GL Corps because I like Kyle and Guy but dislike Hal.  I'd be interested to see the figures on GL Corps.  It started about 3 years ago and probably drew a lot of Kyle and Guy fans away from GL.  If you add the two books together, are there really significantly less people reading Green Lantern stories?

I agree with most you said. I admit I haven't read Johns' work on flash, so I'll shut up about it now.

Half the time?  Besides Darkest Night, what stories of Moore's is he using exactly?

Rehash
"To bring forth again in another form without significant alteration"
Using another writer's concepts is not the same thing as "rehashing."

Johns didn't make up the speed force either but he shouldn't have to give another writer credit every time the Flash uses it.  He should have to give credit for using the Vega sector?  You seriously think that?  I suppose he should give Bill Finger credit every issue for coming up with the idea of green lantern.  You think it's unoriginal for Mongul to use the Black Mercy?  Next thing you'll be telling me it's unoriginal for Johns to have Sinestro use a yellow power ring.

As for Sodam Yat, the War of Light and the Prophesy of the Sinestro Corps War, those were exactly what you said they were.  Prophesies.  Prophesies hold little value if they are never fulfilled.  It had to happen eventually.  Not sure why you blame Johns for that.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with anything you listed except perhaps the Sodam Yat thing because that comic was never published.

If Moore had a better relationship with DC and was actually receiving credit for everytime something he created/inspired was being used I wouldn't have a problem. Bill Finger still gets some for of recognition by DC. Siegel and Shuster still get some name recognition by DC. Kirby still gets name recognition practically everytime the New Gods or the Eternals are mentioned.

Perhaps its not a rehash, but Johns is sure as hell standing on Moore's shoulders as he's being patted on the back by people like you.

I'm not like you guys who has been reading Green lantern stories for a long time, but I still like them. But, I must admit, Green Lantern Corps has been eh, but I can't wait for the appearance of "Agent Orange" And I like the idea of each lantern constructs were affected by the user personality. But, I did not like "it hurts every time" thing.

I'm sorry to hear you're dropping GL Methos. 

People like me?  What do you mean people like me? X-D  People who read Flash books?  Or JSA books?  Or Booster Gold?

I'm not patting Johns on the back for much of anything in GL.  I think he's done some good things and some bad things.  His retcons generally suck but at least he's writing the characters in character, unlike about half of comic book writers these days.  Overall, a mediocre to decent run.  (But he's done some damn good things in other books and that should not be forgotten.  When a guy writes the defining run on one of the magnificent seven and one of the three main teams in the DCU, you can't call them a complete hack.)

Would a lot of the stuff he wrote on GL not have been possible without Alan Moore?  No question.  Moore wrote some damn good things of his own way back when he was with DC.  But the DCU is an ongoing story.  Any writer would be foolish (and oft ridiculed) for ignoring previously written stories altogether.

Alan Moore gets all the recognition he needs.  It's common knowledge among comic book readers that Moore came up with a lot of these concepts.  It's common knowledge that he's an almost peerless writer who was the mind behind the most widely respected comic of all time.  I'd say that's enough.  Hell, if you asked him if he wanted his name on those issues, I bet he'd tell you to leave him out of it.  Justified or not, the man wants nothing to do with DC.

Kirby gets recognition because everybody loved Jack Kirby.  He's literally God in the Marvel Universe.  Siegel and Shuster get recognition because DC is legaly obligated to give it to them.  Finger gets no recognition whatsoever.  I've read Green Lantern books for years and even read All-American Comics 16.  I had to look up his name because I haven't seen it in print on a comic book except the reprint of AAC 16.

I'm so sorry to hear this.

I myself haven't read the latest issues because I don't wan't read on a Origin arc when I know good and well the character's origin. But thats not enough for me to drop it all together.

"i suddenly feel physically ill......

M"

The world has truly taken a blow with these events D:

I personally love Green Lantern and believe that the current stories are being seen as bad because they are basically build up

Johns had to introduce in 2 years several corps members to build the climax of his Green Lantern trilogy, some of the retcons he has done are bad I'll admit that, others are good and there are the ones misunderstood, some that may look stupid or lame but that when the time came they served a purpose, there was a reason and sometimes a good one.

I wonder what would happen if Johns left Green Lantern, the ones who read his run on Flash always knew that it was great but it wasn't until he had left that we realized how much we really liked it and how good it actually was. Flash has had a few great writers over the years after that, I loved the last issue of Bart Allen's Flash series and the All Flash special (That one mostly because of the idea that Wally was back)

It's some other stories which ruined it, putting a Fantastic Four writer trying to make Wally and Linda the DC's versions of Reed Richards and Sue Storm while the two kids got the roles of Franklin and Valeria? Thanks, I dropped it after the first issue

"I myself haven't read the latest issues because I don't wan't read on a Origin arc when I know good and well the character's origin. But thats not enough for me to drop it all together."

"I personally love Green Lantern and believe that the current stories are being seen as bad because they are basically build up

Johns had to introduce in 2 years several corps members to build the climax of his Green Lantern trilogy, some of the retcons he has done are bad I'll admit that, others are good and there are the ones misunderstood, some that may look stupid or lame but that when the time came they served a purpose, there was a reason and sometimes a good one.

I wonder what would happen if Johns left Green Lantern, the ones who read his run on Flash always knew that it was great but it wasn't until he had left that we realized how much we really liked it and how good it actually was. Flash has had a few great writers over the years after that, I loved the last issue of Bart Allen's Flash series and the All Flash special (That one mostly because of the idea that Wally was back)

It's some other stories which ruined it, putting a Fantastic Four writer trying to make Wally and Linda the DC's versions of Reed Richards and Sue Storm while the two kids got the roles of Franklin and Valeria? Thanks, I dropped it after the first issue"

 
Not only halved sales since Johns took over... but he actually managed to take sales down to just over a third of what they were when he started... and then he had the bonus of the shock value of bringing Hal Jordan back from the dead... they are now trying to drag on the Blackest Night storyline to include all of the DCU, just to that the Green Lantern and GLCorps books can actually shine through again, well personally i don't believe that will help... hell, i don't even believe that the Blackest Night arc will sell enough to actually bring Green Lantern back to what is used to be, let alone put it back on the front page of magazines again...