The Faces of FOX's Gotham: The Villains

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Posted by inferiorego (25734 posts) - - Show Bio

We're still in the middle of the winter break for FOX's Gotham, but we're rolling on talking about the massive cast of the show and breaking the down by category. This week, we're checking out some of the villains of the show. These guys may be flavor of the week, but they still have an impact on the overall show.

Like many folks that live their whole lives in New York City or Chicago, when you are born into a bustling metropolis, like Gotham, it's a place you're going to set down your roots and stay in you're whole life, so it makes sense to see so many beloved Batman characters as younger versions of themselves in this show.

Make sure to check out our breakdowns of the police officers, crime syndicate, and children of Gotham in past weeks. Let's get on with the villains!

Doll Maker

This is Patti, who works for Dollmaker
This is Patti, who works for Dollmaker

In the comics, Dollmaker, who first appeared in the New 52, creates dolls out of the skins and limbs of his victims. He's the reason Joker was faceless for quite some time. In the television series, he's the villain, in a sense, for the episode "Selina Kyle," but here's the thing, he's never once shown on the screen. His lackies, kidnapping children for him, are the only ones we get to see.

What's Working: Dollmaker had people working for him, who were pretty creepy and vicious. It was the viewer's first look into the insane part of Gotham City, but just sane enough to formulate some planning.There's so much mystery and unresolved story with this character and it's one of the few they could bring back with no problem.

What's Not: There hasn't been any mention of the character since the second episode. Hopefully, this is something they go back to since the Dollmaker is still out there.

Conclusion: He never appears on the screen, but he's easily one of the coolest villains and story lines Gotham has worked with, as far as villain of the week goes.

Richard Sionis

No Caption Provided

In the Batman comics, there's a crime boss that goes by the name of Black Mask. In the New 52, Roman Sionis is currently battling Catwoman for the role of leader of the Gotham Underground and leader of the False Face Society. On the show, well, he's a bit different. Richard Sionis is a man from the corporate world, obsessed with war and fighting. In order to get a job at his firm, you have to literally fight for it.

What's Working: The fight club type work place was silly, but at the same time, actually really interesting. Just that idea alone gave Sionis a bit of depth.

What's Not: Todd Stashwick's portrayal of the character was a bit over-the-top. He was written as a giant red flag character, letting the viewer know right away that he was the bad guy. There was no mystery behind

Conclusion: Interesting character and idea, but written pretty poorly. There was a lot you can build with this idea and with the family name, but ultimately, it was a middle of the road villain.

Balloonman

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Possible relative to Soundgarden's "Spoonman," The Balloonman (Davis Lamond), played by Dan Bakkedahl, ties corrupt folks to giant balloons and lets them float off into the sky. They eventually come down and die from the fall. Believe it or not, there is actually a Metal Men villain who goes by the name Balloon Man, except he was the type of villain that robbed banks.

What's Working: The idea of a person becoming sick of corruption and taking action into his own hands is a novel idea, in theory.

What's Not: He wasn't Professor Pyg, but he wore that mask. That's my fanboy complaint of the week. He was cartoonish and it felt like the whole purpose of the character was to inspire Bruce Wayne to eventually become a vigilante. Seriously, there's a scene where Bruce was watching a report on him and you can almost see the lightbulb go off above his head.

Conclusion: A bit of a mess of a villain. The vigilante part of the episode was pretty cool but the way the character went about stopping the corrupt felt like it belonged more in the 60s Batman television series rather than on Gotham.

Victor Zsasz

No Caption Provided

Mr Zsasz is one of Batman's most psychotic villains. He's a serial killer who marks his own body every time he kills someone. Played by Anthony Carrigan, who also played The Mist in the third episode of CW's The Flash, this version of Victor Zsasz answers to Carmine Falcone as his hitman. Sure, Zsasz should have been on the crime syndicate feature, but he had more of a villain of the week flare to him.

What's Working: A younger Zsasz is completely different from what the fans know, but not so far off base that it loses the character entirely. It leaves fans to wonder what happened to him to make him so psychotic? It's a really cool direction the writers took this character. He even has minions with weird haircuts!

What's Not: There's some weird moments with the character that come off as unbelievable, like when Zsasz can tell a room full of cops, in a police station to leave and they listen.

Conclusion: He's different, but he worked pretty well for the episode he was in. Sure, quite a few fans didn't dig on this version, but there's a lot more the show could do with this character, if they choose to bring him back.

The Sprit of the Goat

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We're saving the best for last! The Goat isn't a part of the Batman comic universe, but it was easily one of the best villain of the week characters on Gotham. The Goat is a serial killer that Harvey Bullock dealt with in his younger years as a cop and even though The Goat was killed, he resurfaces years later. It's revealed that the Goat is actually under the influence of psychiatrist Dr Marks, who essentially uses mind control to get them to kill.

What's Working: By the time the twist is revealed, it's pretty predictable, but it was still a great turn, knowing that The Goat isn't really a thing and it's just all because of one woman's suggestions. The Goat is incredibly creepy as well and gives the show a great horror vibe.

What's Not: Chances of this character coming back are slim to none, unless Dr Marks has some sleeper agents lying around.

Conclusion: Without a doubt, this was not only one of the coolest stories for the first half of the season, but one of the strangest/scariest villains Gotham has worked with yet. We'd love to see more characters with a sadistic tone in the future.

That's it for this week! We'll be back next week to talk about some supporting characters on the show that don't really fit anywhere else. Remember, Gotham returns from it's Winter Break to Fox on Jan. 5 at 8/7c. What do you guys think of these characters?

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#1 Posted by IronAngel89 (31 posts) - - Show Bio

This post made me glad that I didn't continue to watch the show.

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#2 Posted by The Average Bear (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

I really wish I could get into this show like I've gotten into Flash and Arrow but something about it just keeps me away and continues to do so. Also, can they pronounce Falcone correctly?? I haven't watched the show after the first couple of episodes, but Falcone is italian for falcon, which hunt bats. Symbolic, yes? Listen to the Italian pronunciation. They're leaving out the last E.

Maybe this has been explained and I missed it or it has been fixed.

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#3 Posted by Farkam (12036 posts) - - Show Bio

This post made me glad that I didn't continue to watch the show.

lol yup

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#4 Posted by Enormity (314 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:

@ironangel89 said:

This post made me glad that I didn't continue to watch the show.

lol yup

preach

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#5 Posted by TrueMarvel (578 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotham is the worst CB show on the air. I will still watch every episode.... but still

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#6 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (9086 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy $hit this show is bad. I've seen more effort put into costumes at a comics convention.

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#7 Edited by Numbuh1Nerd (90 posts) - - Show Bio

The Spirit of the Goat is so cheesy, though! He's far more of a Batman-inspiration character than the Balloonman, plus the growling of "I AM THE SPIRIT OF THE GOAT" could only be made more hilariously stupid if he bleeted at the top of his lungs after. Zsasz was practically a Schumacher creation. Balloonman was unimpressive, and particularly disappointing since everyone thought he'd be Professor Pyg. Black Mask's mask isn't working, and that's the only thing I paid attention to with him. This show is trash.

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#8 Posted by NightFang3 (12363 posts) - - Show Bio

Get more Gotham bashing.

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#10 Posted by dan12456 (3006 posts) - - Show Bio

This post made me glad that I didn't continue to watch the show.

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#11 Posted by judasnixon (12663 posts) - - Show Bio

I love this show, because it's so awful. I can't help but to crack up laughing each time I hear "I'm the spirit of the goat". They had a dude who killed people with balloons! That is just silly...... I understand why hardcore Batman fans loath this show, and it make it that much funnier....

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#12 Posted by KidSupreme (854 posts) - - Show Bio

LoL, Everyone seems to dislike "Gotham". I agree it isn't great but seriously which superhero show is?


"Arrow" is garbage. "Flash" also failed. "Constantine" just make me sad watching it.
"Agents of Shield" is epically horrendous! (Painful just thinking about it.)

Yet I still watch 'em, cause it better then most of the garbage that's on TV.

They should pitch their shows to networks like; HBO, ShowTime, AMC, Stars
They'd get a better budget, tell awesome stories and they would have less filler episodes.

Those are my 2 cents!

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#13 Posted by viin (953 posts) - - Show Bio

please cancel this show...im so surprised that its still on tv and even more surprised that people even talk about it.

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#14 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

@enormity said:

@farkam said:

@ironangel89 said:

This post made me glad that I didn't continue to watch the show.

lol yup

preach

Why mother even commenting?

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#16 Edited by Loki2u (325 posts) - - Show Bio

I really wish I could get into this show like I've gotten into Flash and Arrow but something about it just keeps me away and continues to do so. Also, can they pronounce Falcone correctly?? I haven't watched the show after the first couple of episodes, but Falcone is italian for falcon, which hunt bats. Symbolic, yes? Listen to the Italian pronunciation. They're leaving out the last E.

Maybe this has been explained and I missed it or it has been fixed.

This bothers me as well, and while they don't explain it on the show.....I'm wondering if they do so that the audience doesn't get his name mixed up with the other crime boss Maroni.?

My theory anyways.

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#17 Posted by IronAngel89 (31 posts) - - Show Bio

@enormity said:

@farkam said:

@ironangel89 said:

This post made me glad that I didn't continue to watch the show.

lol yup

preach

Why mother even commenting?

I read the post to see if maybe there was something about the show that might have gotten better, that might have convinced me it wasn't as bad as I initially thought it was...turns out, that's not the case, so 1) I commented to state my opinion and 2) see if anyone on here feels the same way. That's why I "mother" commenting.

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#18 Edited by Loki2u (325 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by AwesomePerson (2767 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand how Gotham went downhill to be honest....

"Penguin's Umbrella" was awesome, one of the best episodes of the season and then everything else is totally c*ap

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#22 Posted by The Impersonator (8485 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Darkseid_Prime (247 posts) - - Show Bio

The shows problem is that it lacks any and all depth in it's characters. It adds nothing new and reminds everyone what isn't going to happen. The creators forget that we actually don't want to see Bruce in this story. Mayyybe once every 3-4 episodes to show us his progression but not every week... he's a fkn kid who isn't Batman or a vigilante. Take out Selena for the same reason. Focus solely on Gordon and Bullock and the Gotham Underworld, don't make Penguin an every episode character (we won't forget about him), kill off Fish Mooney, stop with the dead-end easter eggs (WE KNOW!) and then the show may thrive as original. Make it dark, not fake "gritty" or "realistic" but dark.

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#24 Posted by Guru_Crack (11568 posts) - - Show Bio

Did enjoy the Spirit of the Goat.

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#25 Posted by BatWatch (5487 posts) - - Show Bio

Everybody is piling on Gotham, but as a lifetime Batman fan, I like it quite a bit. I will say the episodes are inconsistent; some bore me and some thrill me, but overall, the show has been very solid.

Addressing a few complaints:

I do feel there has been character development in nearly everyone in the show. Gordon has been a constant, but everyone around him has shifted from his presence.

The super villain designs are not supposed to look like super villains. This is before the arrival of capes, so you would not expect elaborate costumes.

Nitpicking the pronouncement of names is looking for stuff to hate.

I was concerned with how they would keep Bruce Wayne in the show and relevant, but I think they've done a tremendous job developing him without it feeling forced. His investigation into his parent's murders weaves well into the daily chaos of Gotham and adds a bigger purpose to the story.

The show does have problems, but it's better than most things on the air.

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#26 Edited by Drummer007 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people bash on these shows so bad? Would you rather have more American Idol or The Voice on TV. Or the Bachelor?..... come on. It's just entertainment. Nothings perfect. Most of the people complaining still watch the shows every week. I just can't believe how much people complain about having comic book based TV shows on major networks. Maybe I'm just to much of a positive person.

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#27 Edited by Fallingcliffs (5727 posts) - - Show Bio

The first few shows weren't bad but eh I lost interest. I put Gotham in the same low tier category as Agents of Shield, cheesy, silly and just not remotely close to Flash, Constantine, Arrow, Smallville etc shows like that concerning acting and writing....

@Kidsurpreme: lol what are you talking about dude? AOS and Gotham are the worst of all of these choices by FAR. Flash, Arrow, Constantine and WD are million times better...from acting to plot and villains, heroes...

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#28 Posted by ThreadPool (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Anybody remember when it took half the "Balloonman" episode for Jim and Bullock to figure out that balloons pop? And they actually had to interrogate someone to find out!!!

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#29 Edited by amazing_webhead (9875 posts) - - Show Bio

Balloonman should turn in his supervillain card. What kind of p*$$y gets beaten up by his own victims? You think that could happen to the Joker? Or Scarecrow? At least Riddler would be smart enough to avoid a direct confrontation.

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#30 Edited by Knightsofdarkness2 (8155 posts) - - Show Bio

And the Gotham bashing has begun.

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#31 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (9086 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by deactivated-59c716930b8a6 (9227 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah... I don't think I'll be watching Gotham...

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#34 Posted by mak13131313 (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@batwatch said:

Everybody is piling on Gotham, but as a lifetime Batman fan, I like it quite a bit. I will say the episodes are inconsistent; some bore me and some thrill me, but overall, the show has been very solid.

Addressing a few complaints:

I do feel there has been character development in nearly everyone in the show. Gordon has been a constant, but everyone around him has shifted from his presence.

The super villain designs are not supposed to look like super villains. This is before the arrival of capes, so you would not expect elaborate costumes.

Nitpicking the pronouncement of names is looking for stuff to hate.

I was concerned with how they would keep Bruce Wayne in the show and relevant, but I think they've done a tremendous job developing him without it feeling forced. His investigation into his parent's murders weaves well into the daily chaos of Gotham and adds a bigger purpose to the story.

The show does have problems, but it's better than most things on the air.

I agree.

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#35 Edited by Fallingcliffs (5727 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub: Going to assume you're joking.

As someone who is very heavily into acting while a HUGE follower of dc, mostly voice but still Its really quite obvious flash, arrow and constantine have better acting an writers than aos and gotham.

Aos just tried piggybacking on the success of avengers and ws with dull plots, it only got renewed to badge. Gotham relies too much on 'batman' even though there is no actual batman....

Flash, Arrow and Constantine are original concepts heavily based on the comics. Thus why theyre running away with the polls for the most part.

Smallville paved the way for these shows and lasted 10 years with a hit comic.

You cant honestly tell me theres better acting or characters villain/person with hidden agendas on aos than lex in smallville or wells In the flash.

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#36 Edited by JewishDork (498 posts) - - Show Bio

A big problem with the show is that the writers appear to be uncertain about the direction they want to the show to go in. Is is supposed to be show about the GCPD or Bruce's journey to becoming Batman. You cannot have both because neither protagonist ends up getting enough time to become fully fleshed out characters. The best part of Gotham are the adult actors who are unfortunately given such poor material.

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#37 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (9086 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallingcliffs: I hope your joking if you believe anything made on the CW isn't utter crap. Good acting? Lmfao. C'mon Man! Lol...

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#38 Posted by Fallingcliffs (5727 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub: So you think CW=bad shows and bad acting? *scratches head*

Yeah...smallville=10 years and a hit cómic.

Supernatural=11 years and a comic...

The Flash and Arrow=among the more popular comic shows currently?

You seem to have a vendetta against CW....

Between two shows alone that makes for more than 20 years of good stories, would say different.

Flash is winning this poll. So you think good shows are bad eh?

CW>>>>Justin Lin ;-)

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#39 Posted by judasnixon (12663 posts) - - Show Bio

Did enjoy the Spirit of the Goat.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha......

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#40 Posted by TrueMarvel (578 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotham would be better if it was just about The Penguin.

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#41 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (9086 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallingcliffs: Longevity doesn't equal quality. When has anything been praised critically on the CW? You have low expectations if you think anything on CW is acted well or not cheesy. Seriously these shows are bad. You can cover a turd in gold but it's still a turd...

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#42 Edited by Fallingcliffs (5727 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub: When you last 10 years in tv these days especially, it does.

Perhaps you just have ridiculously high expectations that are unrealistic, no show is 'perfect' but to say every cw show is bad and cheesy us sinpke wrong.

Pretty sure buffy, smallville, supernatural among others hace won awards or been voted best or better primetime action/drama. The thing is flash, smallville, supernatural etc arent 'turds' k then whats currently your favorite cómic show right now that can honestly match flash with acting, plot, writing and special effects. I cant wait to hear this.

But I will admit, considering your a fan if a series majority on this site probably never heard I find your thoughts amusing a little.

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#43 Posted by superior_prime_maybe (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

who's the goat man?

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#44 Posted by Guru_Crack (11568 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by WorldsAway (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub: When you last 10 years in tv these days especially, it does.

Perhaps you just have ridiculously high expectations that are unrealistic, no show is 'perfect' but to say every cw show is bad and cheesy us sinpke wrong.

Pretty sure buffy, smallville, supernatural among others hace won awards or been voted best or better primetime action/drama. The thing is flash, smallville, supernatural etc arent 'turds' k then whats currently your favorite cómic show right now that can honestly match flash with acting, plot, writing and special effects. I cant wait to hear this.

But I will admit, considering your a fan if a series majority on this site probably never heard I find your thoughts amusing a little.

You seriously think because things last a long time they're good? Some of the best shows have only lasted one season and some of the worst shows have lasted years. Just because people eat something up doesn't make it good. You look anywhere in any industry and you can see that.

I watch all of these shows except Constantine and it's extremely obvious that the CW makes shows completely different than any other channel. It seems the shows are more focused on the teenage crowd/people who read 50 shades of gray and make fan fiction. You can't go 5 minutes without hearing about some forbidden love story. I would say the acting is pretty much the same across the board and all of these shows have their share of bad acting with none having really any top notch acting.

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#46 Posted by Fallingcliffs (5727 posts) - - Show Bio

.

You seriously think because things last a long time they're good? Some of the best shows have only lasted one season and some of the worst shows have lasted years. Just because people eat something up doesn't make it good. You look anywhere in any industry and you can see that.

I watch all of these shows except Constantine and it's extremely obvious that the CW makes shows completely different than any other channel. It seems the shows are more focused on the teenage crowd/people who read 50 shades of gray and make fan fiction. You can't go 5 minutes without hearing about some forbidden love story. I would say the acting is pretty much the same across the board and all of these shows have their share of bad acting with none having really any top notch acting.

Do you know how HARD it is for a show to last past 3 or 4 now, nevermind 10?

I think most shows that last a long time are overall solid shows unless it's something like The Simpsons that gets old really fast, it lasted that long more to pop culture than anything.

I don't see how comparing food to a TV show that has a ridiculous following, big name like Superman of all people to uphold is comparable with something that is always debatable. Example, you like vanilla chocolate, I may not. It's a food preference but I also accept someone else may like it. TV show that lasts 10 years should not be compared to a show that lasts 1 for various reasons....besides MOST of the time, a show that usually lasts one season does suck or has poor ratings. It's also an entirely different industry, the food industry regardless if healthy or bad will ALWAYS exist due to A. Food being required to live and B. something you eat therefore there's more direct pleasure from it. A movie or show go strickly by ratings.....fast food chain or something could have great or bad yet still be popular. That's the difference.

I'll still never figure out how Almost Human and V only lasted one and two seasons yet A.O.S. will probably last at least a few more mostly due to "name badge" I am not one of those people who watch it because "omg it's Marvel and same continuity as movies therefore=must be great" I don't believe in this philosophy at all. I would gladly take just about any DC show over AOS any day, except perhaps Gotham as I said I put them equally as bad imo.

Yes, CW makes their shows with action, attractive actors/actresses and drama. The latter most shows have even if it's minor, this is why I never got the whole "all CW shows are the same" argument, when clearly they're not. Some are comedies, others more drama, others fantasy etc. Besides, I personally think the whole Clark and Lois gig worked well on Smallville as what they're doing with Iris and Barry....it can't always be about "action for the sake of action" Flash has a great blend of it imo. Constantine I'll admit at first didn't do much but has gotten better no doubt, I will say this however if it gets canned and AOS gets a third season I'll be annoyed but not surprised I mean...that show relies on no name characters that happen to be hot. Even most in this topic asked why wasn't Coulson but Sky? Who the hell is Sky? lol Flash, Arrow aren't aimed at just teens. In fact most people on here who like it aren't all teens and I know a ton of folks who like it who are oldschool Flash fans such as my father for example...who read JL comics in the 60's...

Acting wise I'll still hold my original stance. AOS has had good actors the asian chick, Coleson a few others. The rest are average at best. Constantine Matt Ryan and Zed do a great job, as does his cabbie. He's perfect for the role...Most are surprised by Gustin's Flash and I don't think I need to even break down Well's actor, the guy is perfect for the role he plays as was Rosenbaum for Lex in Smallville.

Gotham here and there but I don't like AOS or Gotham, IMO they're the bottom of the can.

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#47 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (9086 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Edited by Fallingcliffs (5727 posts) - - Show Bio

@lone_wolf_and_cub: That's an opinion, not a fact. There are shows on there that aren't aimed at teens at all. 100? Reign? Flash? Aren't aimed at teens at all....Sure the comic shows have various age groups but again I know plenty of older people who watch it. Besides you mean like Marvel does? :P

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#49 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (9086 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallingcliffs: I disagree. Campiness, bad acting, cheesy dialogue, horrible effects, forced romance etc. To me great shows are True Detective, Boardwalk Empire, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, Dexter, Sopranos, Mad Men etc. Those shows are well written and for the most part greatly acted with little to no cheesiness. The same can't be said for anything on the CW. When anything on the CW is on par with any of the shows I mentioned let me know. Look you have your opinion and I have mine neither of us are going to change our minds so lets stop beating a dead horse.

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#50 Posted by Fallingcliffs (5727 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub: Horrible effects? Most people love the effects of Smallville and Flash. Forced Romance? Maybe on some shows but not Smallville or Flash, in the comics a lot of those relationships have happened or been an item. With the exception of newer characters for the show's purpose. You want campyness, watch Batman 66, original Star Trek, Hulk of the 70's etc those were campy even Reeve's Superman. I don't agree that the newer shows on CW are campy, Flash has more charm and it's silly moments unlike Arrow but I don't think it's campy per-se.

Of those shows two of which I never heard of True Detective and Boardwalk Empire, BB was alright but there's better. GOT is above average but imo not the best book to tv show, WD is good but isn't quite as good as it was 3 years ago, Sopranos sucked. I live next to NJ, it was arguably the most overrated tri state area filmed show ever. Give me Seinfeld any day over Sopranos. Besides you're talking about "bad writing" that show 50% of the dialoge was the F bomb left and right(not very original if you ask me) MM is average I think.

But even those shows have romance, drama, fights etc I've watched GOT, MM. The only thing I see those shows having over the CW and normal network shows are they're more rated due to being on cable or netflix. DC's vertigo series and other books we don't see on TV(yet) are way darker or more sinister than those shows you listed. Curious though how you'll feel about Preacher and iZombie if they wind up being received well and you say the same about the CW shows I'll be convinced you just don't like DC. May as well admit it, no shame in it.

But yes, I agree it's probably best to agree to disagree.

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