Gotham: Episode 109 - "Harvey Dent"

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Posted by inferiorego (25734 posts) - - Show Bio
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Warning: There are some minor spoilers in this review

Barbara leaves James to get her act together and Selina Kyle is going to tell the police what the person who shots the Waynes looks like, but she's going to stay at the Wayne Manor. Alfred teaches Bruce to fight, but Bruce soon learns that it takes more than fighting skills to last in Gotham. Harvey Dent is introduced, along with his coin, as a counselor who wants justice for Gotham. He goes about it in a very unorthodox way and has a darker side.

Ian Hargrove, a bomb maker, escapes from Blackgate while being transported. Bullock and Gordon go on the hunt for him. Hargrove is forced to make bombs for a group of men, but Hargrove leaves clues along the way. They took the "villain of the week" story they've been on and off using since the beginning and added a little something extra to it, which was a nice change of pace, to see a villain who not only wants to be caught, but doesn't want to be involved in his crimes.

The best way to describe this episode is chaotic build-up. It seems every loose thread in this series is dealt with but not concluded. What's left is a tangled pile of cords on a mildly pleasing plate. Minus Falcone and Maroni, every single supporting character is featured at some point during this episode. You'll get whiplash from looking back and forth trying to figure out which way to look.

The biggest thing this episode offers is the introduction of Harvey Dent portrayed by Nicolas D'Agosto. Like many other characters in the show, he's over-the-top, but it works. Sure, the scene where he loses it is a bit much, but his "Good guy with a dark side" portrayal of the character really works and is one of the few actually entertaining pieces in this episode. He gives the viewer a "too good to be true" performance, relating to his taking a bite out of crime attitude. At one point, we do get to see him break and it's actually pretty shocking and down-right frightening. Hopefully, we don't see this become an over-used point in future episodes.

Maybe it's my increasing anger that Selina is shoehorned into random episodes but the Selina living with Bruce scenario makes little sense. I understand that Gordon can't trust the cops because there are moles, but staying with the Wayne family is insane. The Selina/Bruce relationship is being forced onto the viewers and it's obvious. Although Alfred finds Selina to be a "cheeky little minx," Camren Bicondova does a swell job as her, for the most part; however, she's at the mercy of some downright sloppy writing. The dialogue between Bruce and her which changes subjects at a rapid pace, and it's incredibly awkward. There's this obsession Selina has with wanting Bruce to kiss her weaved throughout the show. Everything feels forced and crammed down the viewer's throats. In addition, their scenes are tonally the exact opposite of everything else in the show. We go from gritty crime to a food fight. Understandably, the writers are trying to show that Bruce is becoming a kid again, but it falls flat.

The dialogue isn't just rough with Selina. Edward has a whole conversation about video games that leads no where as he gives Bullock and Gordon some evidence. Nygma is a character that could and should be written better. There's a lot of potential there and his two scenes this week didn't help.

The music during the scene where Penguin goes through Liza's house is fantastic and sets this mischievous tone. Overall, except for a couple missed cues in earlier episodes, the music is wonderful at setting the tone of each scene and not overpowering the events on the screen.

We are left at a place where Arkham Asylum is reopened, as Hargrove enters there instead of going to Blackgate. This opens up a lot of opportunities for the show and not just to toss in some Batvillains. While there was a ton of buildup for almost every storyline they have going, Gotham does a fine job with softballing this at the end, to get fans excited for future episode.

"Harvey Dent," an episode mainly about Selina Kyle, introduces a few really cool concepts to the Gotham universe, but overall, this was one of the weaker episodes of the series. Watching Bruce train himself to eventually become the vigilante Batman was interesting, but having Selina there was just bizarre. It feels like the writers have no idea what to do with Selina, but want her in every episode. At times, the same goes for Bruce. Frankly, there's way too much going on in the episode and what should be the main story suffers because of it. Gotham is still a dynamite show and let's hope this is just a bump in the road.

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#1 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahh the beginning of one of comics least healthy relationships. Batman and Catwoman are weird in that they're perfect for each other but the reasons they are, are also the reasons they'll never be good for each other.

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#2 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow 2 stars? you must have really hated it. I've never seen a show get 2 stars on here before.

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#3 Posted by Transformers1024 (7600 posts) - - Show Bio

WHOAAA!!!!!!

HOLY CRAP, ITS THAT BAD?!

On the bright side it's about time we start seeing negative reviews here on CV.

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#4 Posted by judasnixon (12663 posts) - - Show Bio

This show is not very good..... The only reason I watch it is because I made a drinking game out of it..... It's really a bad show.....

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#5 Edited by micah007123 (10836 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm starting not to like this show as much as I used to. The Penguin, Falcone, Fish Mooney and the Dynamic between Gordon and Bullock are really the only reason's I've been keeping up with it on a week to week basis.

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#6 Edited by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio
2 Stars? Ay Dios mio!
2 Stars? Ay Dios mio!

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#7 Posted by the_stegman (40195 posts) - - Show Bio

My God, get Selina out of there, she is consistently the worst part of the show.

Moderator
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#8 Posted by Kerrigan (266 posts) - - Show Bio

Pity: it's been a stronger show than its comic-fan rep so far, but this sounds clumsy.

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#9 Posted by Gotham331 (516 posts) - - Show Bio

I kinda dug this episode.

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#10 Posted by SupBatz (2186 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, I'm surprised at the poor score. I haven't watched this episode yet, but the past two have been pretty good, I thought. Guess I'll have to watch and see if this one takes a dive. I tend to appreciate Bruce's and Selina's presences in the show more than most, so I'm hoping I enjoy the episode more than the reviewer.

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#11 Posted by Comicdude360 (3245 posts) - - Show Bio

2 stars. Wow never seen a show this bad.

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#12 Posted by viin (953 posts) - - Show Bio

As a Batman fan I really hope this show doesn't get a second season.

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#13 Posted by NightFang3 (12362 posts) - - Show Bio

2 stars really? I thought it's worth at least 3 stars.

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#14 Edited by judasnixon (12663 posts) - - Show Bio

Ha ha ha ha ha ha........ Oh man this show is awful. Catwoman has to smell like $#!% by now.... Nine episodes and she hasn't changed clothes once. Why the $#!% is she wearing googles for? I'm drunk..........

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#15 Posted by Lurkero (507 posts) - - Show Bio

It really shouldn't be that difficult to make up characters for the purpose of the show. Smallville created plenty of characters and had little problem with it. Forcing Selina Kyle will only make the writing more difficult in later seasons.

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#16 Posted by dagmar_merrill (12701 posts) - - Show Bio

My God, get Selina out of there, she is consistently the worst part of the show.

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#17 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (12493 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh DAYUMM!!! Matt is pullin' out the 2 stars!!!!!!! OH SNAP!!!

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#18 Posted by staypuffed (246 posts) - - Show Bio

Two stars? On a Comic Vine TV review? woah...

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#19 Posted by dondave (41752 posts) - - Show Bio

@staypuffed

Two stars? On a Comic Vine TV review? woah...

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#20 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (9033 posts) - - Show Bio

This show is horrible.

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#21 Posted by SynCig (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with this review completely. I have been liking the show for the most part until this episode. It hasn't been great but it has held my attention. This episode was really boring. On top of that, Harvey Dent was completely lame and unnecessary. That actor was not up to snuff. Barbara remains one of the worst characters on television. I really don't understand what the writers are doing with her. If their goal is to make me hate her as much as possible, then mission accomplished because she is an empty headed child who has the reasoning skills of my left butt cheek. Edward Nygma is still super annoying. Selena "they call me Cat" Kyle remains cringe worthy... This was basically an episode that highlighted all the things that suck about this show without giving us any of the things that have made it decent so far. Really disappointed in this one.

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#22 Posted by jayc1324 (26422 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't remember the last time I've seen anything get less than three stars on here

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#23 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

Lowest score I've seen on here ever.

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#25 Posted by Sachmoo (2500 posts) - - Show Bio

They FINALLY make Alfred Likeable (aside from having Bruce train in a button up). They FINALLY give Bruce believable air time. They FINALLY let Selina act without forcing her to be over the top catwoman (aside from the Cat reference, the milk was a cool touch). All story's got moved forward, without killing off someone barely introduced for no reason, and you give it a 2?

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#26 Posted by tupiaz (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

It would have been better if Cat had lived with Gordon and Barbara maybe that would have made Barbara something to do other than cheating on Gordon. If the two of them spent time together it could break them both of being connected to Gordon every time they are used and have their own thing. Maybe this could build the mother skills Barbara has later on. Every time the show want to force Selina and Bruce into the show it doesn't work. The need to do something that is not related to Gordon. The video scene with Edward was of however him answering all the question in the radio program was fit for the character. I would have liked to see more tension between Bullock and Edward rather than Bullock giving him credit the dynamic works better that way.

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#27 Posted by danhimself (21433 posts) - - Show Bio

I really want to like this show but I feel like it's two great shows mixed together into a not so good show

the first show is a show about a young Bruce Wayne and his growth and training to become Batman

the second show is a show about a new to the Gotham Police Department Jim Gordon struggling to be a good cop in a city full of corruption

again if these were two separate shows then I feel like we would have two hits but the fact that they've tried to shove them together into one show means that there's just way too many characters vying for attention...it constantly feels as though they're shoving characters down our throats with "LOOK it's Selina Kyle but she likes to be called Cat *wink wink* but wait look it's Eddie Nygma who likes riddles *wink wink* but wait here's Oswald Cobblepot who doesn't like to be called Penguin *wink wink* and there's so many more!!!"

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#28 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22776 posts) - - Show Bio

Barbara is a thot and Harvey Dent was lame

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#29 Edited by ForeverMan (213 posts) - - Show Bio

This show is pure camp, and many of its characters would not at all be out of place running around with Adam West and Burt Ward.

I honestly wonder if tv writers intentionally do things like making the Barbara Gordon character the most unlikeable lame on television.

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#30 Posted by Romthelegionaire (135 posts) - - Show Bio

Nygma, Selina, and Barbara all need to be written better. Other than that the episode was decent. I was also happy to see that Hargrove the Bomber was played by actor Leslie Odom Jr., the same guy that was Collier on Person of Interest.

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#31 Posted by J_HickmanIsGod (435 posts) - - Show Bio

i believe this show has been a constant 2star show.

even though CV guys have been giving it a lot more credit than it deserves. the acting is shotty at most, the storylines really lack any drama, the writing is lack luster, inconsistent due probably to the fact they have had different writers on each episode, and the fact that Bruce and Selina are terrible add-ons and the writers are really confused on how the hell to incorporate these characters into a vast a story where the quite obviously dont belong.

with all that said, i will give it one more week, then i will no longer care. this show had potential but it is indeed being squandered away.

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#32 Posted by J_HickmanIsGod (435 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh DAYUMM!!! Matt is pullin' out the 2 stars!!!!!!! OH SNAP!!!

hahaha.

bout muhhhhfuhhhin' tyme bruhh!

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#33 Posted by AlKusanagi (732 posts) - - Show Bio

As soon as you learn to love Catgirl, your viewing will get much less stressful.

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#34 Posted by timelord (920 posts) - - Show Bio

I would go with one star.

My irrational rage over the kids is growing.

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#36 Edited by ArtisticNeedham (2730 posts) - - Show Bio

To me the show has my main problem built into the premise. You have all these characters who will eventually become the characters you want to see. This is meant to be a character study that shows how they got there, but you have to actually let them get there. But once you get there the show ends. Once Nigma becomes Riddler or shows he is becoming then thats it. Harvey Dent wil become Two-Face but that doesn't happen for many years since Bruce is just a kid now and not even close to Batman. So for the series we will probably only have this version of Dent. But if they did have him become Two-Face before Bruce is Batman that wouldn't be good either. Some of my complaints are comic continuity though, so they aren't actual series show problems. Like Zzazz, Black Mask, Penguin, two-Face, existing before Batman. But it sort of seems like putting the cart before the horse sort of thing. Another comic thing I have about the show is that Bruce hasn't left to travel the world and learn to become Batman. What if the show, instead of being Gotham was about young Wayne travelling the world learning little by little to become Batman... a semi Avatar the Air Bender sort of thing. But then thats like saying I like the Flash but what if instead of running he could fly and instead of red his costume was green.

However here is my pitch for Wayne (or something).

( The show starts with Bruce Wayne watching his parents shot to death before his eyes. Like in Gotham we follow Bruce as he has become a lost young man who feels like there is something he should do but can't figure out what. Over the coarse of a few episodes, maybe even the first season, we see how Bruce's decision is effected by Alfred, new to Gotham Detective James Gordon, Leslie Thompkins, and a few others. At first he is doing random things like burning himself and drawing dark pictures. Later after therapy, which Bruce seems determined to ignore, and after learning traveling the roofs of Gotham with "Cat," and after taking a few boxing lessons from Alfred, Bruce makes his decision. In the first seasons last episode Bruce and Alfred set out to travel the world. But its not just to get away from Gotham like others assume, Bruce reveals to Alfred his agenda.

Season two: Now we get into Bruce traveling the world, learning how to be a thief from thieves. Living on the streets with the homeless. Being an apprentice to a magician. Learning various fighting styles from various fighters all around the world. Each place he travels to can have an episode or two or even five, and a story arc where Bruce runs into trouble or his mentors do. He runs in rough circles, bound to happen more that not. Much like Avatar he learns skills as he travels and experiences adventures. We also get a chance for cameos. The magician's daughter, who Bruce likes could be Zatanna. The boxer who teaches Bruce Boxing could be Wild Cat. Learns the occult from Jason Blood. Etc. And maybe we get it all from Bruce's perspective, as he writes in a journal, still trying to figure out his end game. The show has a potential to follow the actor from being a child to being a young adult over many years. You also get Bruce, once he gets older I guess, having romantic relationships with women he meets on his travels. There could be the drama of Bruce saying he has to leave, then thinking what if I just stay, but feeling torn between staying and his parent's promise. You also get various locations around the world like Egypt, England, Scotland, Australia, China, Germany, Paris, Canada, Africa, etc.)

Plus the show just seems too dark to me. There is danger and evil but hardly any heroic light. In the Comics Batman is the spotlight that lights up the darkness in Gotham. Without that its too dark and gloomy for me.

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#37 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

Five Stars: Average
Four Stars: Meh
Three Stars: It sucks
Two Stars: Horrific abomination

Out of curiosity what would you have to do to get a one star review on CV? Something like The Ring in real life?

Moderator
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#38 Posted by WarDishy_ (1252 posts) - - Show Bio

Nygma, Selina, and Barbara all need to be written better. Other than that the episode was decent. I was also happy to see that Hargrove the Bomber was played by actor Leslie Odom Jr., the same guy that was Collier on Person of Interest.

I thought that was him but I wasn't sure. Wasn't the guy Dent was talking to the police captain or something from PoI as well?

As for the episode, yeah. This was probably a two or three stars for me. Boring. I didn't like the guy cast as Dent, Gordon's thread this week was dull, as was Penguin's, Bruce and Selina were okay but nothing special. It felt unfocused.

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#39 Posted by feedonatreefrog (290 posts) - - Show Bio

This review reads like a three.

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#40 Edited by Crimsonlord53 (1546 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce and selina was odd.

Barbra (they could have picked another name jim kissing his daughter is a little off putting in my head) running into the arms of another cop is frustrating.

Fish is just blah.

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#41 Posted by feedonatreefrog (290 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

@viin said:

As a Batman fan I really hope this show doesn't get a second season.

How about you just don't watch it instead of hoping it gets canceled so people who do actually like it can't watch it?

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#43 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce and selina was odd.

Barbra (they could have picked another name jim kissing his daughter is a little off putting in my head) running into the arms of another cop is frustrating.

Fish is just blah.

She's always been called Barbara.....

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#44 Posted by KingAres109 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Barbara has been one of the worst,and annoying female character ever.Not too many female characters I hate.I never seen one person do so much stupidity. She lied to Gordon more than once hides things from him,but the moment he does she gives him a ultimatum.

I mean really who wants to deal with that??

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#45 Edited by rollingshadow7 (87 posts) - - Show Bio

After 4 episodes, I stopped watching. Imo, it's too 'wink-wink' / nods to things plucked from the Batman mythos. Maybe it will work better for me if I can watch the episodes consecutively in a few sittings. But right now, it's cringe-inducing. And I agree with the Selina Kyle plot - completely unnecessary.

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#46 Posted by SupBatz (2186 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't much understand the hate that Bruce and Selina get in this show. I'd rank Bruce's scenes as one of the most compelling aspects of each episode. And I didn't think Selina was "shoehorned" into this episode at all. The dialogue is a bit off in places, but that goes for the entire show, not just the scenes involving Selina.

This episode wasn't the best, but I'd still give it a 6-6.5/10.

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#47 Edited by StarBrand1 (661 posts) - - Show Bio

people still take reviews on this site seriously?

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#49 Posted by AwesomePerson (2767 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to be honest here: Selina Kyle had more scenes in this episode with is called "Harvey Dent" than she did in the second called "Selina Kyle"...

Maybe Harvey will show up in the later episode called Leslie Thompkins

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#50 Posted by Night_Raven (613 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed, don't understand why they insist on shoehorning Selina into almost every episode, in what is otherwise turning out to be a really impressive show. Until this episode, I even quite enjoyed the change of pace that Bruce's scenes brought, especially when they held some relevance to the main plot. (Not criticising the actress playing her though).

Given the episode title, you'd have figured there'd be more exposure to Harvey Dent. Hoping the next episode switches the focus again.

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