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    Goku

    Character » Goku appears in 1423 issues.

    The main protagonist and hero of the Dragon Ball manga series and animated television series created by Akira Toriyama. He is one of the survivors of the extinct Saiyan race. Sent as a baby to planet Earth in order to destroy it. When he arrived he was a violent kid, due to his warrior nature. However, he suffered an accident which made him lose his memory. He became a kind and calm kid. Trained, he became a talented martial artist and world's greatest defender.

    What evidence proves base Goku can lift over 40 tons?

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    NinjaWarrior268

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    I've heard people say the gravity was 10x stronger but I want to see other feats which show base Goku is stronger. What feats prove Goku could have lifted over 40 tons in base form during the other world tournament saga?

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    ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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    @ninjawarrior268: perhaps holding the bucket of water in his back which weighed over 1000 tons in one of latest episodes of dragon ball super

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    houseshm

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    in super he lifted way more than that and 40 tons thing is really old

    read this please

    No Caption Provided

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    ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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    @houseshm: do them calculation take into account go the increased gravity of the planet?

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    houseshm

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    @houseshm: do them calculation take into account go the increased gravity of the planet?

    not sure actually but its a good read and shows 40 tons things is just laughable downplay

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    superman9122

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    #6  Edited By superman9122
    No Caption Provided

    Get rekted!

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    L3g3ndaryPheonix

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    #7  Edited By L3g3ndaryPheonix

    @superman9122 said:
    No Caption Provided

    Get rekted!

    What does that prove or are you judging a weight based on how small it its becuase a teaspoon of neutron star material would weigh about 10 million tons.

    Stay in school

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    super10000

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    Josteinfleurme65

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    Of course he can.

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    NinjaWarrior268

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    #10  Edited By NinjaWarrior268
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    23dhjyt

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    semperblazed

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    Well his training gear when training with Wis just sunk in the ground, not sure what that means but its cool

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    nilok

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    #13  Edited By nilok

    Things I learned: Dragon Ball makes no god damn sense.

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    semperblazed

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    @nilok: i agree, at one point goku could read minds( when he got to namak and looked in krillins mind to see what rakoom had done to beat up krillin,Gohan etc.

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    nilok

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    #15  Edited By nilok

    @semperblazed: ...Dear god, that makes no sense in hindsight. Goku just has the ability to read someone's mind spontaneously to cut down on exposition, but then is never implied to used it again-

    ...

    Is that how Goku fought Hit's Time Stop power? By reading his mind and preparing for what he was about to do? But if that was the case, why didn't he read Vegeta's mind after he fought Vegeta in the Buu Saga that Vegeta was going to coldcock him or that he was about to be shot when fighting Golden Frieza?! I'm drowning in plot holes of my own creation!

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    Gokussbkk

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    in dbs episode 1 or 2 he lifted something very large while he was working

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    IRHP87

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    The DBS manga makes it seem as if Vegeta (who is roughly as strong as Goku) cannot lift over a million pounds (Magetta), so the most we can assume those huge ass heavy things Goku was lifting in DBS weighed would be well under a million (unless Vegeta just has shit lifting technique lol). However, the manga and anime are significantly different, and the anime takes precedence over the manga in this case since it came first (like how the manga > anime for DBZ) and the anime doesn't have Vegeta attempt to lift that Magetta.

    So, who knows? I mean, clearly the 40 ton thing was PIS since Goku only had a Power Level of 10 when he was lifting some relatively heavy shit, like cars with people and gear inside them, and huge rocks, and throwing or crushing them, too. It's absurd to think he barely got stronger (if at all) from his childhood.

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    nilok

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    @irhp87: Or it could be how they have gotten stronger is different than we have been assuming. We have been assuming that when they have gotten stronger, say doubling their power level, that both their physical strength and ki strength both doubled. However, it may be that their ki strength had double, but their physical strength isn't able to increase as fast. This could make sense in that they are able to manipulate their ki to being able to destroy planets, but are unable to shatter a planet with an empowered punch (Lord Beerus not withstanding).

    Perhaps while Ki does far more damage, it is easier to deflect with their own ki than compared to a punch, which is able to bypass much of it.

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    IRHP87

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    @nilok said:

    @irhp87: Or it could be how they have gotten stronger is different than we have been assuming. We have been assuming that when they have gotten stronger, say doubling their power level, that both their physical strength and ki strength both doubled. However, it may be that their ki strength had double, but their physical strength isn't able to increase as fast. This could make sense in that they are able to manipulate their ki to being able to destroy planets, but are unable to shatter a planet with an empowered punch (Lord Beerus not withstanding).

    Perhaps while Ki does far more damage, it is easier to deflect with their own ki than compared to a punch, which is able to bypass much of it.

    That doesn't make sense. There is no reason that Beerus would be able to destroy planets with punches but not the Saiyans even though the power gap is closing fast. All I can think is that their lifting power is dramatically different than their striking power, or that the manga is bulls***.

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    nilok

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    @irhp87:There actually is a very good reason, godly ki is completely different from normal ki. If you notice, Vegeta was trying to lift Megetta as a normal Super Sayian, not a Super Sayian Blue.

    Then again, the way Lord Beerus destroys half a planet with a poke doesn't seems like physical force when watching it again, but a very precise ki attack.

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    IRHP87

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    @nilok said:

    @irhp87:There actually is a very good reason, godly ki is completely different from normal ki. If you notice, Vegeta was trying to lift Megetta as a normal Super Sayian, not a Super Sayian Blue.

    Then again, the way Lord Beerus destroys half a planet with a poke doesn't seems like physical force when watching it again, but a very precise ki attack.

    Godly ki has not confirmed to be any different in actual function than standard ki. Aside from needing to learn to sense it, there has been no differences. Vegeta even learned to sense it prior to attaining god ki.

    I don't know that it matters what form Vegeta was in. Don't Goku and Vegeta has god ki as their base now? Or is it only active during Super Saiyan Blue? That seems unclear as well.

    Beerus/Champa destroyed planets with punches in the manga, so it doesn't really matter if the poke feat was physical/ki or a combination.

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    nilok

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    @irhp87 said:

    I don't know that it matters what form Vegeta was in. Don't Goku and Vegeta has god ki as their base now? Or is it only active during Super Saiyan Blue? That seems unclear as well.

    It seems fairly constant that they only really tap into their godly power when in their SSJ Blue form. Otherwise they are as stronger as an equivalent SSJ.

    @irhp87 said:

    Beerus/Champa destroyed planets with punches in the manga, so it doesn't really matter if the poke feat was physical/ki or a combination.

    And the manga also showed that SSJ Vegeta couldn't lift over 1000 tons...

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    IRHP87

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    @nilok: "It seems fairly constant that they only really tap into their godly power when in their SSJ Blue form. Otherwise they are as stronger as an equivalent SSJ."

    But then how do you explain Goku's Super Saiyan God wearing off during combat with Beerus but still retaining power? Seems like a permanent boost to his Power Level regardless of his form. We haven't seen that form since it wore off, I assume it just became Goku's new base, minus the appearance, so logically that would just make Goku a Super Saiyan God at all times. But I dunno. Has anyone mentioned sensing Goku or Vegeta who wasn't a god? That may be a clue. If they haven't then perhaps they cannot sense them.

    "And the manga also showed that SSJ Vegeta couldn't lift over 1000 tons..."

    And?

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    nilok

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    @irhp87:

    That didn't seem to be a permanent base boost, but instead what he and Vegeta refined into their SSJ Blue transformation.

    Having SSJ Vegeta after achieving SSJ God being unable to lift 1,000 tons fits closer to my theory than your explanation.

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    IRHP87

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    @nilok said:

    @irhp87:

    That didn't seem to be a permanent base boost, but instead what he and Vegeta refined into their SSJ Blue transformation.

    Having SSJ Vegeta after achieving SSJ God being unable to lift 1,000 tons fits closer to my theory than your explanation.

    How did it not seem to be a permanent boost to you? After Super Saiyan God form expired Goku retained the Power Level increase inherent to it, and that has nothing to do with SSjB. It was that way before SSjB even existed.

    Manga exclusive lifting feats have nothing to do with the above, either.

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    nilok

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    #26  Edited By nilok

    @irhp87:

    If god ki was a permanent boost, why is it that Cabba, when he is finally able to go SSJ, on equal footing with Vegeta? Whis has already stated that Universe 6 and 7 are mirrors of each other. If the god ki boost was permanent, it would mean that Cabba is as strong as Vegeta with a god boost, but with Cabba never receiving one as he has stated that Sayians had never transformed in Universe 6, which means he could have never gotten a god boost himself.

    You can't argue for one manga exclusive feat (Beerus and Champa destroying planets without ki attacks) and against another (SSJ Vegeta not being able to lift over 1,000 tons). You have to take all of them together, or none of them.

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    IRHP87

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    @nilok said:

    @irhp87:

    If god ki was a permanent boost, why is it that Cabba, when he is finally able to go SSJ, on equal footing with Vegeta? Whis has already stated that Universe 6 and 7 are mirrors of each other. If the god ki boost was permanent, it would mean that Cabba is as strong as Vegeta with a god boost, but with Cabba never receiving one as he has stated that Sayians had never transformed in Universe 6, which means he could have never gotten a god boost himself.

    You can't argue for one manga exclusive feat (Beerus and Champa destroying planets without ki attacks) and against another (SSJ Vegeta not being able to lift over 1,000 tons). You have to take all of them together, or none of them.

    I didn't say that god ki was a permanent boost. It isn't about what type of ki it is. The form of Super Saiyan God gave a Power Level boost regardless of the type of ki inherent to it is. So say Goku's PL was 1,000 and during SSjG it was 10,000. Well after SSjG expired he retained that boost. Think of it like if Goku's normal SSj wore off but he always retained the 50x boost. That's very much what it seems like to me.

    Anyway, you're asking why Cabba was equal to Vegeta when he went SSj? Well that's easy. Cabba and Vegeta have a similar PL in base form. So say their PL is 1,000 in base, then when they both go SSj they'll both be 50,000 thanks to the 50x boost. The main reason Vegeta beat Cabba was because he had access to forms Cabba did not. He was barely an SSj, let alone SSj2 or all the way up to SSjB. So even if Cabba and Vegeta are the same in base that doesn't mean anything when Vegeta has more transformations. Cabba clearly was just an exceptionally powerful warrior to reach the level he was at without any type of boost from any source (that we know of).

    When did I argue for any feat from manga? I referenced them in that they exist, but I fully acknowledge that we cannot cross feats. The manga and anime are too different for that. There's obviously a conscious decision to differentiate them while still following the same basic story, so citing cross feats isn't something I'd do, at least intentionally (I do get the films, manga, and anime mixed up sometimes).

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    nilok

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    #28  Edited By nilok

    @irhp87:

    The reason why I disagree with the idea that SSJ god gave a permanent base boost is because that would mean that Cabba would be as strong as Vegeta after he got Vegeta got the boost, which means if Cabba reaches SSJ god he would be that many times more powerful than Goku or Vegeta, which doesn't fit with what Cabba said or how the story will go (with Goku and Vegeta being the main characters).

    My take away from SSJ god is that Goku and Vegeta retained the latent power from their god forms. They trained this new untapped power into a new form wholly separate from the normal SSJ transformation and their base form.

    You actually will drop most of the SSJ forms, or grades in Super. In the databooks, the are 5 listed (and a 6th) different grades of SSJ being, First Grade (normal), Second Grade (Ascended), Third Grade (Ultra), Fourth Grade (Full-Power SSJ), and Fifth Grade (SSJ2), and unlisted as this databook was released before the Buu Saga, Sixth Grade (SSJ3), are all different applications and expertise of the same form. Toriyama wants to get away from the different grades of SSJ, saying that they were getting boring, and for in story that they simply tax the body (SSJ3 energy drains like crazy) and mind (SSJ2 the user becomes more violent) too much to be useful.

    We are probably only going to see SSJ, SSJ Blue, and possibly a form for Gohan moving forwards. However, with how long Super is going to be, Toriyama could be trolling again...

    Fair enough for the last point, trying to sort everything out for Dragon Ball is already a pain.

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    IRHP87

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    #29  Edited By IRHP87

    @nilok: "The reason why I disagree with the idea that SSJ god gave a permanent base boost is because that would mean that Cabba would be as strong as Vegeta after he got Vegeta got the boost, which means if Cabba reaches SSJ god he would be that many times more powerful than Goku or Vegeta, which doesn't fit with what Cabba said or how the story will go (with Goku and Vegeta being the main characters)."

    Maybe he would be, why is that a problem? Goku and Vegeta will just get stronger than their opponent again in typical Dragon Ball fashion regardless.

    "My take away from SSJ god is that Goku and Vegeta retained the latent power from their god forms. They trained this new untapped power into a new form wholly separate from the normal SSJ transformation and their base form."

    First before anything we have to explain why Goku was so powerful after SSjG expired if it is true that he didn't retain its power despite losing the form itself, granting him power separate from god ki and SSjG forms.

    Gokuwas able to fight Beerus after the form expired, so how was he able to do this without being in SSjG?

    I just now watched episode 13 and Goku states that even though his SSjG form has expired he does not feel like he got any weaker, and everyone can sense his ki, so he was fully reverted to normal SSj (Whis states this himself, in fact). When asked why Goku was able to still fight, Beerus states that the power of SSjG did not vanish when the time limit was up, but rather that "the power fused with" Goku and "became [his] own." Sure sounds like a passive boost to him to me (by passive boost I just mean a boost in power which doesn't come from a form, just power added to his own normal power, so if his normal power prior to the "fusion" was 1,000 and is now 100,000 then each SSj multiplier will affect it normally since it is "his" power).

    I hope I'm making sense here. Either way, watch episode 13 and I think you'll understand. It's pretty much undeniable now that I rewatched the episode. I can say with certainty that SSjG merely granted Goku a passive boost to his existing power.

    "You actually will drop most of the SSJ forms, or grades in Super. In the databooks, the are 5 listed (and a 6th) different grades of SSJ being, First Grade (normal), Second Grade (Ascended), Third Grade (Ultra), Fourth Grade (Full-Power SSJ), and Fifth Grade (SSJ2), and unlisted as this databook was released before the Buu Saga, Sixth Grade (SSJ3), are all different applications and expertise of the same form. Toriyama wants to get away from the different grades of SSJ, saying that they were getting boring, and for in story that they simply tax the body (SSJ3 energy drains like crazy) and mind (SSJ2 the user becomes more violent) too much to be useful."

    I don't know about all this, but I like the forms, and don't find them boring, but if Toriyama thinks so, well...that is too bad, I guess.

    "We are probably only going to see SSJ, SSJ Blue, and possibly a form for Gohan moving forwards. However, with how long Super is going to be, Toriyama could be trolling again..."

    Well, SSj3 was shown in DBS already, so I don't think they'll completely write off the regular SSj forms, just make them less prominent. Also, I am quite sure we won't just see SSj and SS god forms, since spoiler:

    There is an evil Goku coming up and SSjG requires a pure heart, so we will see SSj4 maybe to compete with SSjG or something. We will see.

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    nilok

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    @irhp87:

    My personal view of Goku's boost at the of Battle of Gods and episode 13 is that Goku was able to retain to power during the battle, but after the battle when he was completely exhausted, it went dormant. After which, Goku and Vegeta trained to be able to call forth the power on command, which takes the form of SSJ Blue.

    I do know Toriyama has a white hair formed that he has in his back pocket that he originally wanted to use for SSJ Blue, which Toriyama has teased may be used later on for another character to further their development. The major fan speculation is that this form with be Gohan's.

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    IRHP87

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    @nilok: When was it stated the power ever went dormant?

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    nilok

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    #32  Edited By nilok

    @irhp87:

    It was never stated explicitly, but it doesn't make sense with how powerful Goku is compared to Beerus after that, or how Goku is portrayed after that.

    If you are correct, and Goku gained the SSJ god power as a permanent power up to his base form, why isn't Goku more powerful than Beerus? Toriyama stated that in a power scale during Battle of Gods; Goku is a 7, Beerus is a 10, and Whis is a 15. Now, Lets say that Goku gained the god power boost to his base form, with the SSJ multiplier he would jump to 350 on that scale, so that can't be true. Lets also consider that it was his SSJ form that got the boost instead, but if that was the case, than by Vegeta's showing of how much more powerful SSJB is to SSJ, Goku would still be more powerful than Beerus, so that also can't be true. The only way it makes sense that Goku and Vegeta are still weaker than Beerus in SSJB is if SSJB is the boost that Goku and Vegeta received. It also makes sense to Whis' comment that if Goku and Vegeta worked together, they could stand a chance against Beerus, putting them together at a 14 on the scale.

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    IRHP87

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    #33  Edited By IRHP87

    @nilok: "It was never stated explicitly, but it doesn't make sense with how powerful Goku is compared to Beerus after that, or how Goku is portrayed after that."

    What do you mean by this exactly?

    "If you are correct, and Goku gained the SSJ god power as a permanent power up to his base form, why isn't Goku more powerful than Beerus? Toriyama stated that in a power scale during Battle of Gods; Goku is a 7, Beerus is a 10, and Whis is a 15. Now, Lets say that Goku gained the god power boost to his base form, with the SSJ multiplier he would jump to 350 on that scale, so that can't be true. Lets also consider that it was his SSJ form that got the boost instead, but if that was the case, than by Vegeta's showing of how much more powerful SSJB is to SSJ, Goku would still be more powerful than Beerus, so that also can't be true. The only way it makes sense that Goku and Vegeta are still weaker than Beerus in SSJB is if SSJB is the boost that Goku and Vegeta received. It also makes sense to Whis' comment that if Goku and Vegeta worked together, they could stand a chance against Beerus, putting them at a 14 on the scale."

    Well, why Goku isn't stronger than Beerus is the film was retconned, mostly. The gap between Goku/Beerus is bigger now and Toriyama's numbers for BotGs are now irrelevant to the series as a whole, unfortunately.

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    dragon54321

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    it makes no sense that Piccolo is close to Goku.Goku most likely lost his God power after his battle with Beerus.looking at Goku Vs Frost and Piccolo vs Frost it seems to me that Piccolo is probably equal to base Goku.post God Ritual SSJ Goku was going toe to toe with Beerus.Piccolo was one shotted by Beerus who didn't even touch him.how the hell is Piccolo close or equal to Goku????he either lost his God power or it is a massive plot hole.

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    nilok

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    Wy9693

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    Idk all this is highly inconsistent goku lifts 40 tons and struggles then u fast forward and what happens the man get pinned down by gravity.

    Which u would think for a multi Versailles being gravity shouldn’t effect especially if the gravity is barley denting the ground 😵

    The gravity at least should be so heavy that it shoots goku through the entire planet 🌏

    Idk bro it’s been wonky

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