YOUR UNPOPULAR AND CONTROVERSIAL IDEAS ABOUT THE X-UNIVERSE... GO!

@cattlebattle: Lol my argument isnt the one that's see through here buddy. Your the one trying to justify this nonsense because Claremont wrote her with 30 different traits 40 years ago. I'm telling you that everything about her INCLUDING and AFTER that makes her kinda look a certain way.

She was created at the same time as Colossus and Nightcrawler....how many primary traits did they have by the start of the 90s?

Banshee? Sunfire?

The only 2 people comparable are Wolverine and Kitty. The fan favorite and the most notorious author Avatar Mary Sue Claremont created.

This isn't about "omg she does to many things" this is about "When did she become the best at that?"

She was depowered for a while and your justification for her fighting people that give Daredevil trouble is the danger room...come on Cattle.

She was a thief as a child and now shes pick pocketing Gambit?

Dont tell me its because shes a long term comic book character when all of this happened in a team book within the span of 5 years. The only difference being that in the 30 years that followed while Colossus got to have a story about being and Acolyte and then a different story about him being the Juggernaut. Storm expanded back to back on every single one of those 30 things I listed in my original explanation to the point that it's kinda ridiculous how many things shes not good but GREAT at.

I said a BIT of a Mary Sue and your not even acknowledging how it could be construed that way when you've said yourself how Claremont liked to focus on Storm and even mentioned yourself his fetishes as a possible motive behind it. Which would make her just as bad as this current flawless version you mention.

I just dont like that every run that focuses on Storm takes a trait that may have been initially interesting to an illogical extreme to the point that shes currently the African Goddess Queen of Thieves, Wakanda and Morlocks who can fight Wolverine, is a friend to all of nature, kids and X-Men, with magical potential a guarded minded and decent from an African priestess.

I mean I'd rather not, but we can put up scans of where Claremont presented her with something and when it was taken too far by another writer without any development to get her there.

@koays:

Lol my argument isnt the one that's see through here buddy

I'm not your buddy, guy! (not sure if you get that reference)

The crux of your argument is that Storm is a mary sue, which she isn't, and you've already conceded that, and that she has "30 different traits with little explanation" which you keep repeating and don't list.

She is a master thief, she has been that for a long time. And so what if she picked Gambit's pocket?? Does Gambit have some sort of spatial awareness I am not aware of?? I am pretty sure Gambit has also been snuck up on and taken out by shit tier members of the Mutant Liberation Front. Gambit and Storm's level of, uh, "thieving", has always been similar.

And her fighting skills have been documented as well. She was trained by her teacher and Black Panther as well as trained with the X-men for years. You know, there is an issue of Excalibur where the team winds up in like a John Carter of Mars type dimension and Rachel defeats a load of characters in a tournament in h2h and sword skills. Where did she acquire these abilities?? Hunh Koays?? I need to know!! If this is not explained to me then she must be a mary sue.

You just keep naming things without context. "ZOMG she is a friend to all nature, kids, and X-men" You sound like you're just venting on a summary written by a raindrop than actually addressing actual things that have been stated. And I can't help but think you are holding how maybe Storm has been written in recent years as a standard as well. As if someone like Tom Taylor was going to write a "powerful woman of color" in any other way than being the best at everything. I really didn't read his stuff so, I don't know.

She was created at the same time as Colossus and Nightcrawler....how many primary traits did they have by the start of the 90s?

LOL, wut?? Bruh. Nightcrawler just started out as some weird looking dude who had apparently spent "some time" with the circus (probably because he looked like a freak more than anything) and could teleport. In the subsequent years he became a master swordsman, master acrobat, had weird shadow melding powers, had a witch girlfriend with cool magic powers, defeat Captain Britain while shielded by Cerise (Captain Britains undergo training), was able to hang with Spider-Man in combat, led Excalibur, led Technet etc.

1. Jean Grey is overused and overrated as well

2. Scott is a fool to get back with Jean and be a part of the stupid poly relationship with Wolverine, the very idea is absurd

3. Bishop is boring

I think Cyclopes is incredibly boring, with boring powers--and this is my subjective opinion and I mean absolutely no disrespect to any Cyclops fans

There have been X-reads far far better than Morrison.

Also, I already made this thread.

LOL oh okay didn't know ^_^ still, I'd prolly have asked anyway, this is for research purposes. I'll start replying to these tomorrow lol

You forgot Strange Academy!

But no it's not just you. I love Magik but she is pushed into too many arcs. I guess they realized how popular she is and now try to cash in by putting her into everything, I don't think it's good for the character, especially as different writers' interpretations of her varies.

More about the topic...

-Psylocke's transformation into Asian ninja ruined the character

-Sinister is a boring and generic villain

-good and evil mutants teaming up for the good of mutantdom was a cute idea at first but it has gone way overboard. Now apparently even Shadow King is a good guy?? Let just someone be evil for pete's sake.

Daken and Rachel could be the greatest power couple.

The X-men separated completely off from the marvel universe. Oh hey it’s already happening in Sword of X.

Time for another go:

• Madelyne Pryor should have gotten a better story arc. Shat they had so far was good, but there is a lot of potential for her existing on Krakoa. If she was gonna be killed off immediately after one story, then she never should have been brought back to begin with.

•Storm is most interesting when she isn’t portrayed as all-powerful and has to be resourceful to get by, instead of brute forcing her way with her powers. The better the tension, the better investment felt for Ororo.

•We need more situations portraying a happy Wolverine. His brooding makes it difficult to connect with his character, so some happy moments to remind us why he is fighting is necessary.

Cyclops feels like a good example of how they can better approach Wolverine. Logan does not need to be Cyclops, but we do see Scott spending time with his family a lot and just enjoying the life he has. Moments like that for Logan, whether it’s with Jean, Gabby, Jubilee, Kitty, or Daken would go a long way of helping me relate to Logan.

•Moody Colossus is not intriguing to read about. He may not need to be happy all the time, but seeing him brood the way he has been (though understandable) doesn’t feel impactful. It would be nice to get more interaction from Colossus beyond just with Domino.

•The Stepford Cuckoos have been the best part about this change of form for the X-Men and deserve more of the spotlight. Their interactions with each other and other characters outside their group has been thoroughly enjoyable.

Yes Cuckoos are awesome and probably the most iconic X-characters to come out in this millenia even if the 'icy sexy blonde' is a total cliche by this point. One great thing about Bendis run was how he emphasized their different personalities instead of using them for visuals as most writers do. Best part of entire O5/BOTA arc was when Cuckoos kicked Teen Jean's ass, I was literally cheering when reading that scene.

And agree about Colossus. Going through some dark patches sometimes is fine, but too many writers keep him brooding all the damn time.

Couple more (possibly) unpopular views:

-Wolverine's bone claws are daft, make no sense and were a dumb retcon. I'd add all the Romulus stuff and other 'revelations' about his background, but thinking that they are dumb is not an unpopular opinion.

-There is way too much convenient teleporting around these days. It used to be just Nightcrawler's extremely limited tactical teleporting, then came Lila, Magik, Gateway and whatnot...and now we have Krakoa gateways. Instant teleporting to anywhere removes the natural 'breather' the stories had when they have to actually travel somewhere which can be used to slow things down and do some character work (I fondly remember the time New Mutants took a bus when they went for a rescue mission!). Also constant location shifting often makes the stories feel rushed and disjointed. Many memorable action scenes are often tied to the environment, this aspect tends to fade when the characters are constantly switching locations.

A lazy X-writer is easily spotted by the way they use Magik or Pixie: teleport disc right into the action, then have them hack with their soul blades somewhere in the background and when the fight is done they just magicbus the group to the next fight, rinse & repeat. Dialogue or character building for them? Nah. I just can't be bothered to write transition scenes.

X-books are hardly the only ones suffering from this malaise, but it's where it is most prominent.

The Phoenix is so overused and beaten down but still, if a new Phoenix centric comic book comes out, I'd be happy to buy it and read it.

logan is trash. he should be just be moved to the avengers side of marvel and never appear in x-men books again

also, all those freak ass looking mutants they started introducing in new x-men should be thrown in the dumpster and never be shown again

Thank you!!! I've been frustrated for how much writers seem to be afraid to give Storm any arc whatsoever, which is an egreggious contrast to how much character Claremont gave her back in the day. It's not that hard guys, if a white brittish dude in the 80s could do it there's no reason why none else could.

I must admit I'd have also liked the idea of Jean coming back from the dead and having to be cool with the fact that now Scott was with Emma, and admit that Emma was quite the opposite to a bad girlfriend to Scott actually. But I don't mind the current situation, and it's pretty obvious that since Avengers vs X-Men thay had try to make the public like the two of them together again.

The part of undoing Pietro and Wanda's retcon is not an unpopular opinion, it's common wisdom. I would even say that the fact that they were Magneto's kids made both them and Magneto more compelling characters. But hey, making everything more similar to the MCU seems to be the norm now.

Okay, my turn now:
- Please stop publishing New Mutants titles with the same characters from the classic 80s title. I love that run as much as everyone, but I think it's time for the other characters to move to bigger and better things, and have a NM title where the mutants are actually, you know, NEW, or at least mutants who had never joined the X-Men before. That could be an interesting concept to flesh-out some minor characters. Please call Peter David to write it.

- The miniseries House of M wasn't horrible, the horrible part was the reason behind the whole depowering thing (basically a bunch of authors who didn't want to work their lazy asses to deal with all the mutant characters that were created until then) and the fact they let the aftermath last for so long. Oh, and also how quickly Marvel tried to take all the blame away from Wanda has become more and more disfusting with each passing year.

- I think the relationship between Lilandra and Professor X is more disgusting than Magneto and Rogue. It must be because I dislike Professor X more than Magneto. Xandra is adorable tho.

- The whole idea of bringing the original five from the past was a terrible idea and really stupid both in-universe and as a narrative decision, BUT not everything that came from it was terrible, somethings were actually pretty good. And because it's related, the conclusion I drew from Brian Michael Bendis' run is that he tends to have terrible ideas, but sometimes the execution makes them work, but his writing has suffered terribly by the fact he became Marvel's spoiled star-writer almost since his carreer's beginnings.

- For future titles authors should stop acting like if most mutants only come from North America, the Brittish Islands and Asia, and start showing more mutants from Africa, Latin America and continental Europe. And not to use them as new villains, please, is that request too hard to fulfill?

- Iceman's coming out was really badly done, AND It happened ten years too late. They should have make him came out of the closet back in the early 2000s, back when Northstar still haven't met Kyle yet. Also I kinda like the unhealthy dynamic Bobby had with Mystique.

- Juggernaut, Omega Red and Sabretooth are overrated villains, especially the last two. Juggernaut kinda saves himself thanks to being Xavier's half-brother.

- I'm not completely sure if I'm gonna like the X-Men in the MCU, and I'd rather not have them in the MCU that have movies with them that I don't like.

- I've never been a big fan of John Cassaday's art. He's not bad, his artstyle is just not for me.

- People really needs to stop acting like there's only one or two good runs of X-Men titles and the rest are shit. It crosses the line from critical thinking to unreasonable expectations and undermining plenty of authors' good and hardwork, and I'm also pretty sure that attitude is the reason why the X-Men feel like a niche among Marvel and DC fans despite being supposedly one of the most popular titles of all time, the other being editorial management ofc.

- I don't mind Kitty with Pete Wisdom. With Peter Quill however... Oh boy. Also I don't understand why Kitty seems to be every writer's waifu and dream girlfriend when Jean, Ororo, Emma, Rogue and Psylocke are just right there. I not saying Kitty shouldn't be an option, I just find it weird how many authors call her their "First fictional crush".

- And speaking of characters Kitty has taken the spotlight away, Danielle Moonstar is more interesting than her. And the whole Kitty vs Jubilee debacle was and still is stupid. Just my humble opinion.

- Marvel should relaunch the MAX line and publish a mini-series retelling X-23's origins, and be really generous with the violence. This is not so much an opinion as a wish, I know, but I feel like including it.

- The current Hickman's run... oh boy saying I'm not a fan is an understament. Krakoa is basically an ethnostate with really creepy cultist vibes where some of the most despicable villains of all time has gotten free amnesty without having to ever be held accountable for the long list of attrocities they committed. The whole miraculous drug that can cure anything being hold back is a really tone deaf plot point made even more so after the corona pandemic. And the excuses people made for it just so more of the problem. Part of me wants to believe there must be some mind control shit behind all of this because I don't want to accept that most of my fictional characters will ever go on board with too much of this crap, but if I learned something from Marvel in the last fifteen years is that they pretty much lack any self-awareness whatsoever. Not every author, but at least most editors and the writers they tend to show favoritism.

@obscureobsidian: Very good points with some of this.

I strongly agree about the better runs on the title. In all honesty while I like Claremont, I tend to not like alot of what Morrison did. Austen, Aaron and Bendis were trash. But there are other runs that I felt were actually very good. Whedon's Astonishing while overrated reads well in tpb form. Jim Lee and at times even Nicieza and Lobdell did decent work. Kyle and Yost,Carey, Remender, Gillen, Fraction, Bunn, Spurrier, Wells and a few others did some good stuff with the books.

100% agree on Moonstar.

Also agree on the teleportation stuff. Nightcrawler being limited was always a great addition to the plot and the time spent en-route to different locations did allow for much character development. I dont dislike the teleportation disk thing with Magik but using it the way they do and like you said just coming out of nowhere with a crazy looking light up sword is stupid. There needs to be something built in or done about this perhaps make the drain so immense that this ability is only useful on a limited basis. I dont know maybe it literally rips a hole between dimensions causing more harm than good or it could be more like Siena Blaze's potential to cause catastrophic damage.

The Iceman thing shouldn't have happened period.

Here's something very controversial i guess but goes along with the point about Xavier and Lilandra...The Xmen dont need to be associated with the Shiar at all. In fact the Shiar stuff hurts more than helps.

The Xmen and mutants really do need their own seperate universe. I wish Marvel would do a seperate line somewhat like Ultimate but just a universe where its mutants and humans no other Avengers or Inhumans or Fantastic Fours just an Xmen universe. Maybe something could be done with the ghost boxes or whatever with a parallel universe in which the Xmen slightly different exist. But in this universe the Phoenix is not a cosmic force and a constant thing. No magical mystical stuff and no time travel. All that stuff is overdone and lazy writing.

Thr current Hickman is very strange. I actually enjoyed HOX/POX but the rest of the stuff seems to be just me waiting for the interruption to be over and to get back to the story. There's quite a bit I would change about the whole Krakoa thing and all but if it turns out that there is some mind control happening and/or if there is something about the drugs ie perhaps forcible mutation or xgene splicing whatever then this whole story would have been a huge deal. Deep down I think this is what Im hoping for

@hawk2916 as someone who likes Morrison's New X-Men I'll always admit, it's pretty normal it has detractors, taking into account is a highly controversial stuff, from the lines Magneto crosses in Planet X to the whole Jean/Scott/Emma stuff. I agree Whedon's Astonishing is really overrated (a lot of things Whedon has been involved until recently are), but the things he did right, like Colossus' resurrection, he did them great. I actually consider Colossus' resurrection the textbook example of how to do a character resurrection and make the public's reaction something else instead of "Whatever".

I don't think the Shi'ar hurt exactly. I think they work if they're included in small doses. But once they become the main focus... That's when they really hurt. End of the Greys, X-Men The End and the whole Emperor Vulcan are good examples of the Shi'ar getting more screen-time and focus in the plot that they should. And now that I think about it all these stories come from the mid-2000s I wonder if it's just a coincidence.

It's really telling when the character that Aaron screwed over the most is not even Scott. It's Paige. The way he wrote her was beyond insulting, and that's just one example of how bad Wolverine and the X-Men was. The whole suff of Kitty getting pregnant with the Brood is another. Pretty ironic his most famous work is Jane Foster as Thor when there's plenty to criticize about how he treated the female characters he wrote in WatX. And again, that's just one reason why he sucked so much.

Most of the decent work Lodbell did was in Generation X. The thing I will always give credit to Rememder is that for me he's one of the best at writing Deadpool, balancing the comedic nature of the character with the most serious stuff. Kyle and Yost... I like what they did with X-Force, and I think their run on that title was underrated compared to Remender, but I must admit I was always kinda angry with how many characters they killed in New X-Men. Fraction I think one of the main reasons people give him so much shit is mostly because of something that wasn't even his fault, that was Greg Land's art. Yeah Land's work sucks, but it's not the writer's fault they're stuck with a shitty artist. Fraction had other problems, but not enough to deserve so much hate, and I like that he was sure to give Dazzler and Northstar bigger roles. Also he created Kyle Jinadu, something I don't think people give him enough credit. Carey is actually quite underrated, I think this is because the poor man had his run right when House of M was hitting too close. Every writer would have trouble back then, and Carey did a pretty good job despite his circumstances. Bunn is great writing villains, especially Magneto. Spurrier's X-Men Legacy should have been longer, let's hope he's brought back someday to write Legion again. And Blindfold.

In the list of authors who had better runs than some fans gave them credit for I would include Peter David, Kelly Thompson (really dissapointed she wasn't the writer in the new Excalibur title after the good work she did with Rogue and Remy), Leah Williams (her X-Factor run is the best since Peter David and her part on Age of X-Man was the best), Marjorie Liu (I don't like what she did to Julian in the X-23 solos series, but the rest was good, especially in regards to Karma and Northstar in her Astonishing X-Men run and Laura's relationship with Jubilee and Gambit in X-23), Peter Milligan (but only X-Statix, the X-Men run was Chuck Austen's in valium, especially the Bizarre Love Triangle story arc), Greg Pak, Brian K. Vaughn (if Bunn masters writing Magento, Vaughn mastered writing Mystique on her solo series), Brian Wood, Nick Spencer, Christine Weir and Nunzio DeFilippis, Matthew Rosenberg, Alan Davis (great artist, great runs on X-Men and Excalibur) and Joe Kelly.

@obscureobsidian: forgot about Peter David, Vaughn, Spencer and Wood. Liu, Deconnick and Thompson were ok too also Leah Williams

There needs to be a big event that replaces the old X-men with a new generation if the franchise hopes to survive. Jean, Scott, Wolverine, etc are getting boring to read about. Fresh blood needs to be given with good story.

Rogue and Gambit as a couple is a snooze fest.

House and Sword of X is overrated.

@cosmiccelest: Big event sure maybe but that event should place the Xmen in a seperate universe and reboot the franchise. Get rid of some characters and enhance others

Jean Grey is more iconic than she is interesting.

Cable is inherently too messy of a character and has only been interesting in 5% of the comics he's appeared in. The good does not outweigh the bad.

Laura was at her worst in the 'New X-Men' series and has benefitted from her distancing herself from that generation.

Having potential <> being a good character

Moonstar is a great character with awful mutant powers and I don't think she'll ever ascend to the heights she deserves because of it unless they make her primarily a Thor character / play up her Valkyrie abilities

People only like Magma for her powers. She is the worst, but she will never make those asinine 'worst X-Men lists' because she is molten lava with breasts.

Apocalypse was a crap character until the 'Arrako' stuff came out.

Rogue should be an Avenger full-time.

The only pre-Claremont X-Men I would keep on the roster are Storm, Cyclops, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Kate, and Magneto. The rest should be retired / fulfill other roles. The aforementioned six should all age, evolve, and foster the growth of other characters.

Multiple Man is incredibly annoying and kind of a perv.

@cattlebattle: @teamgxone: @hawk2916: ok my new idea is a wolverine solo book called "Wolverine loves BEER!"......................it would make billions lmao XD XD XPPPPP

@pyrofn:

Time for another go:

• Madelyne Pryor should have gotten a better story arc. Shat they had so far was good, but there is a lot of potential for her existing on Krakoa. If she was gonna be killed off immediately after one story, then she never should have been brought back to begin with

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lol 1) i wanted maddie to come back alive from hellions to be with havok just for the drama. also to live with havok and maybe dye her hair(LOL)

2) but doesnt maddie "the jean grey clone" do what jean does best? to die and come back and then die then come back lmao

Have they put Jubilee on X-Force and let her nuke dangerous people

Romy is the most pathetic X-pairing out there. Well, maybe not the most, but it's certainly is among the A-listers.