YOUR UNPOPULAR AND CONTROVERSIAL IDEAS ABOUT THE X-UNIVERSE... GO!

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TeamGXOne

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As the title states, what are some ideas or perspectives of your own, that... you feel may be unpopular, or would not be appreciated by fans. This is meant to be a safe place for opening up and sharing such discussions. DO NOT brow beat anyone for sharing whatever is true in their perspectives, regarding the X-Universe :)

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#2  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan  Online

Katherine Pryde is overrated and her phasing is way beyond boring at this point.

I'd rather appreciate it if Marauders focuses more on any other character on the team even Pyro or Bishop.

Don't come for me Katherine stans.

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Koays

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#3  Edited By Koays

Bishop is boring...that's it. That's the take.

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deactivated-5fd9371ae7062

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R1. Wolverine needs to sit his ass down he's probably one of the most forced characters in the X-Men franchise.

2.Storm and Jean is overrated there's much more interesting female mutants around like Emma Frost, Besty, Rouge and Rachel Grey

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Koays

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Storm is a terrible leader and kinda a Mary Sue.

*opens umbrella before the rain of droplets*

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cattlebattle

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The X-Men franchise is overextended, repetitive, and either needs to be ended and rebooted or completely restructured.

Hickman's run so far isn't that great.

Most X-Men comics outside of Claremont's run and Morrison's run aren't even really worth reading. There are some good things littered in there but they are few and far between.

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Koays

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04->08 is the best the X-Men have ever been.

The outback era is kinda trash.

90s X-Men is virtually unreadable.

X-Fans on twitter are currently being pandered to and all they seem to care about is who is gay, who is banging who and what unpopular character they find adorable....

Quentin Quire dying in every issue is exactly what he deserves.

Prof Xavier is more interesting and has better stories then Gambit.

Wolverine makes everybody around him look dumb to make up for not being a very good solo act.

Iceman doesnt seem like a very good character.

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god_spawn

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#8  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

Rachel Grey is just a failed attempt at making an edgey Jean Grey clone that is supposedly massively powerful but turns more and more into what the media portrays as a stereotypical SJW looks like, and is about as useful as Shark Girl, Eye Guy or other if Aaron’s abysmal creations, which is ironic because he’s probably one of the last writers to give her any real shred of props by knocking Thor on his ass.

The only salvation she has is to hook up with a Daken.

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god_spawn

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#9 god_spawn  Moderator

Nyehehehe

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McFlicky

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X-23 is a better character than wolverine could ever be

Jean is more interesting when she's dead

Days of future past comic is boring af

Cable is a useless character

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TeamGXOne

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@scarlet_wiccan@koays@psi-bite234@cattlebattle@god_spawn I agree with A LOT of your posts!

Later, I'll take better time to read them LOL I think @god_spawn hit the nail on the head, where Rachel Summers is concerned, as I myself always saw Rachel and Hope Summers, as ripoff Jean Grey clones, just Rachel having better potential, and Hope being completely irrelevant and unnecessary.

That's not to say however, I actually liked Rachel more than Jean, however she suffers the same issues as Jean's character, as well as other character developmental issues, that bogs her character down considerably.

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cattlebattle

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X-23 is a better character than wolverine could ever be

04->08 is the best the X-Men have ever been

The outback era is kinda trash

Ok, the OP said post "Unpopular opinions"

Not "retarded opinions"

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Invain

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TeamGXOne

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TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

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The X-Men kinda suck 🤷🏻‍♂️

Apart from Magneto, Wolverine, Colossus and Cyclops of course 😬😬😬😬

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Koays

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@cattlebattle: Lol say what you want.....outback x-men is garbage. The only reason it's not the worst part of Claremonts run is because it got worse after the team disbanded.

@teamgxone - Eh....that's kinda a weak take on Rachel and Hope because neither of them really has much to do with Jean and when Rachel was made Jean sorta didnt have a character when she showed up...sooo...idk because Phoenix?

@god_spawn ya mama is bad character.

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god_spawn

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#17 god_spawn  Moderator

@koays: The bait was caught. Nyeheheh.

Ot, I don’t think Rachel is a bad character. Definitely misused more than anything.

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Koays

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@god_spawn: Lol Rachel is the best character....shes only really been wasted in the 10s....but really, so were all the X-Men so of course she got lost in the shuffle.

I mean it could be worse.....she could be Polaris🤷‍♂️

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god_spawn

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#19 god_spawn  Moderator

@koays: Yeah that sucks. Polaris is cooler anyway.

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Invain

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@koays: Rob Liefeld also disliked the outback era.... you probably have a lot in common with him. ;)

The outback era did have a pretty stupid premise, with the X-Men pretending to be dead, but I found the stories from that time period to be enjoyable. The plots from that time might not be the most memorable, but there were a lot of good character moments. I also liked how the stories from that time seemed more grounded.

Anyway, the weakest part of Claremont's run was the beginning from before John Byrne replaced Cockrum.

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Koays

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#21  Edited By Koays

@invain: I mean Liefeld did fix New Mutants so....🤷‍♂️

To be honest with you I dont all the way disagree. While I did think that one of the saving Grace's of the era was that it's some of the best character stuff and team dynamics that Claremont did in the main X-Men book.

But that said...its the weakest storylines the least actual character growth and the most blah villains.

If you just isolated the run into that one Era it would look like something Austen wouldve done. The outback Era was different.....but it's honestly filler, like Claremont wanted his book far away from all the other titles and then didnt know what to do when he got there.

Idk...I guess Psylocke was good...but otherwise...meh.

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cattlebattle

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@koays said:

@cattlebattle: Lol say what you want.....outback x-men is garbage. The only reason it's not the worst part of Claremonts run is because it got worse after the team disbanded.

Nah. One issue from the Genosha arc with the gengineer and his son, or one issue from the Broodfall arc with the Reverend, has more substance, depth, sentiment and humanity than anything written in 2004-08.

I believe the Outback era exists because it was basically Claremont rage quitting the X-men continuity as Simonson took over New Mutants and they had brought back the original X-men to do X-men things without calling them the "X-Men" with X-Factor. It was something different rather than them just sitting around being stuffy superheroes.

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Invain

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@koays: He didn't "fix" them. He was only popular amongst kids of the time period because his art made them believe that anyone could be an artist.

You say that the outback era looks like something Austin would of done??? Are you high? 🙁

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GothamCitizen

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#24  Edited By GothamCitizen

@koays said:

04->08 is the best the X-Men have ever been.

The outback era is kinda trash.

90s X-Men is virtually unreadable.

X-Fans on twitter are currently being pandered to and all they seem to care about is who is gay, who is banging who and what unpopular character they find adorable....

Quentin Quire dying in every issue is exactly what he deserves.

Prof Xavier is more interesting and has better stories then Gambit.

Wolverine makes everybody around him look dumb to make up for not being a very good solo act.

Iceman doesnt seem like a very good character.

1) The Bendis' era was better; if you don't read his stories.

2) Trash not, but it was like he lost the control of his creativity, so he wrote everything crossed his mind, without think about what was writing.

3) I agree for the second half of the decade.

5) Unfortunately the dead in an x-book isn't eternal.

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TeamGXOne

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Still busy, but I gotta throw this into the mix, for everyone that trashes on Gambit as a character, I can't blame you/them...

The writers act like he's a "creator's pest" and have never developed anything great with him. I personally feel Gambit has some of the best potential as a character, and none of these idiotic writers have gotten the notion to realize him, or someone else that ISN'T in their favorite list.

They ALL home in on the SAME FUCKING characters, Logan (who I do love), Cyclops, Jean Grey and all her clones and repetitious storylines, doing stupid stuff imo with Magik, turning Namor into Phoenix AGAIN... there are other awesome characters, but they're not creative enough to think outside their squeezed, tight brained, comfort bubble. Had to rant that one...

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Koays

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@gothamcitizen:

1- The Bendis Era was terrible to be honest.

I'm usually an apologist, but aside from the very shallow stories in All New X-Men, his Uncanny run is best categorized as anticlimactic at best and pointless at worst.

He just has a problem with explaining or exploring any of his plot points and it made for a run that disappointed when it ended, and is a waste when you look back on it.

2- He moved them to Australia so that he wouldnt have to be tied to the plots of books that he didnt write....its just he didnt know what to do with them.

I mean its Claremont so theres alot to say about it as a title.. but you also have to remember that he was really just trying to piss off his bosses at that point.

3) Eh,...you can go back and fourth during most of the early stuff when one book gets bad...but after Legion Quest it's just "who is the secret villain" plots back to back to back ending in events.

5) That's fine, I'll buy a book every day for a year if you tell Quires dying in new ways in every issue.

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GothamCitizen

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#27  Edited By GothamCitizen

@koays: 1, 2, 3) I agree.

5) I'm too stingy.

My controversial opinion: "Dawn of X" and "Power of X" could have been a wonderful way to relaunch the Inhumans, but they are a disappointing plot for the X-men; too pretentious, too predictable and too poorly executed.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#28  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan  Online

Unpopular opinion #2

Is it just me or is Magik too important in Dawn of X especially compared to other female characters (especially poor Rogue)? Magik is the main character in the New Mutants book, she appears in the main X-Men book from time to time, she was the main character in Empyre: X-Men, she's supposedly a big part of X of Swords.

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MagneticStorm

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#29  Edited By MagneticStorm

Jean is an flavorless mary sue.

Storm has been the "token black woman" X-Men for years. On almost every cover, every team, every movie, always hyped in previews only to be of minimal importance.

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cattlebattle

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I don't think people know what a "mary sue" is.

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MagneticStorm

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@koays: How is Storm a Marry Sue? She's constantly getting ko'd and by your own admission a terrible leader.

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Koays

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@cattlebattle: @magneticstorm: Eh Em She is a locksmith, thief, goddess, h2h master, "best leader", african queen, with perfect morals, who is loved by everyone, has unmatched beauty, is stronger then everyone, her love interest include Black Panther, Forge, Nightcrawler, Gambit, Wolverine, and Yuukio, Shes Jean's best friend, Psylockes best friend, Rogues best friend, Kitty's best friend, Magiks teacher, Bishops leader, Colossus' sister, Emma is jealous of her, her mind is untouchable, her powers unbeatable, Shes in Black Panther, Fantastic Four, the Avengers and the X-Men, everyones mother, sister, best friend or mentor and shes descended from African Sorcerers.

And most of these are informed traits rather then something shes shown.

Idk, like I said its kinda.... but it's there whenever shes gets any kind of focus.

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MagneticStorm

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#33  Edited By MagneticStorm

@koays: "And most of these are informed traits rather then something shes shown" Agreed.

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GothamCitizen

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@koays said:

@cattlebattle: @magneticstorm: Eh Em She is a locksmith, thief, goddess, h2h master, "best leader", african queen, with perfect morals, who is loved by everyone, has unmatched beauty, is stronger then everyone, her love interest include Black Panther, Forge, Nightcrawler, Gambit, Wolverine, and Yuukio, Shes Jean's best friend, Psylockes best friend, Rogues best friend, Kitty's best friend, Magiks teacher, Bishops leader, Colossus' sister, Emma is jealous of her, her mind is untouchable, her powers unbeatable, Shes in Black Panther, Fantastic Four, the Avengers and the X-Men, everyones mother, sister, best friend or mentor and shes descended from African Sorcerers.

And most of these are informed traits rather then something shes shown.

Idk, like I said its kinda.... but it's there whenever shes gets any kind of focus.

You forget she was able to be the operative leader of the X-men even without powers.

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OG_Guts

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#35  Edited By OG_Guts

X-men should not be deemed as the definitive superpowered race in the Marvel universe and every other- especially the Inhumans, seen as 'discount versions'. Inhumans are interesting in their own right

Love Emma Frost, but she should have stayed a villain since she's the perfect foil for Jean.

Days of future past comic is ass, the movie is better

Jean should be the only Phoenix and should always be the Phoenix in some way. Her struggling with the Phoenix is when she's at her most compelling

Polaris is a shit character and knowing she's the only child of Magneto while the Maximoff siblings are retconned out makes me despise her

Every Wolverine clone not named X-23 should have the adamantium ripped from their very bones.

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cattlebattle

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@koays: A "mary sue" was originally a term for an author that put themselves into a story through a character. It was commonly done in fan fiction and commonly done by women, considering the term is feminine. The "Twilight" book series is the most famous example I believe.

In the modern day, the term has been somewhat redefined to mean a character that can just do anything with little explanation and has little, if any, flaws.

Storm has had lots of flaws over the years and a lot of her skills are pretty well explained. To be really picky with what you listed....she isn't really a "locksmith", she knows how to pick locks because she was a thief, and she was a thief because her parents died and she had to survive on her own. The Goddess thing is dumb, but, what are you gonna do??? Cyclops hosted the Phoenix Force...twice. As for her having "perfect morals"....that's dumb. It's super hero comics written by a bunch of lefties, almost every superhero has perfect morals. As for love interests......yeah, Claremont did have most villains fall for her but she was supposed to be extremely exotic and beautiful looking, I don't know if you have ever experienced life outside an X-men forum but really attractive women have lots of men fall for them and most characters have had lots of love interests.

Anyways, the argument that "Storm is a mary sue because she can do a lot of things" is dumb. She is a fictional character that's not allowed to age, get married, have kids, or change in any ways, so, she acquires things. You could make this same argument for KItty Pryde, Rogue, Wolverine, Psylocke, Colossus, or like 90% of the X-Men. I mean, Forge started out as a Shaman who had a weird mutant ability to build somewhat grounded technical devices within reason, now he is an Omega level mutant?? lol, wut???

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PyroFN

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I don't think people know what a "mary sue" is.

No, they don’t.

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Invain

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@cattlebattle: I always saw a mary sue was a boring character who lacked any interesting personality traits, but always managed to have interesting things happen to them through the plots of the stories. Y'know, kind of like Cyclops was back in the day...

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PyroFN

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@koays:

I mean, Forge started out as a Shaman who had a weird mutant ability to build somewhat grounded technical devices within reason, now he is an Omega level mutant?? lol, wut???

Forge was never stated to be an Omega Level Mutant.

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cattlebattle

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@invain said:

@cattlebattle: I always saw a mary sue was a boring character who lacked any interesting personality traits, but always managed to have interesting things happen to them through the plots of the stories. Y'know, kind of like Cyclops was back in the day...

The definition has fluctuated, mainly to be "this character I don't like is a mary sue". And I do think it ironic that people who are big Cyclops fans are hyper critical of other characters. Cyclops has been around since 1963 and is one of the X-men with the least amount of developments or interesting stories.

@pyrofn said:

Forge was never stated to be an Omega Level Mutant.

Oh sorry, I meant that he is the most powerful technopath that would be Omega if not for planetary restrictions or whatever Hickman's explanation was.

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PyroFN

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@invain: That’s kind of it, but Cyclops doesn’t qualify for a Mary Sue, even back in the day.

A Mary Sue does have the perfection quality to them, but there is always a misunderstanding about what it means. It‘s more how they interact with story elements around them, which ends up draining all substance from the story. They aren’t perfect because they are powerful with a boring personality. They are considered perfect because no negative consequences affect them. Everyone agrees with their actions, even when they are considered morally wrong under normal circumstances. They don’t lose the major fights in a meaningful way to raise the stakes or meaningful character development. No character can have their own moment because the Mary Sue takes the focus and their only contribution is to praise up the Mary Sue.

Example: If Jean Grey were a Mary Sue, her qualities would be her Uber powerful, true. She would also never lose a fight ever in a story. When she would do wrong, she wouldn’t face negative consequence when she very well should. Every character would like her without a build up or reason, even Emma (unless she is the villain). The love interests wouldn't just be many on her list, they would never contradict her or disagree with her. She would be right, even when she is wrong, and the story would always go her way. The story thereby the story would gain no stakes, the characters no development, and the Mary Sue would gain no substance.

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PyroFN

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@invain said:

@cattlebattle: I always saw a mary sue was a boring character who lacked any interesting personality traits, but always managed to have interesting things happen to them through the plots of the stories. Y'know, kind of like Cyclops was back in the day...

The definition has fluctuated, mainly to be "this character I don't like is a mary sue". And I do think it ironic that people who are big Cyclops fans are hyper critical of other characters. Cyclops has been around since 1963 and is one of the X-men with the least amount of developments or interesting stories.

@pyrofn said:

Forge was never stated to be an Omega Level Mutant.

Oh sorry, I meant that he is the most powerful technopath that would be Omega if not for planetary restrictions or whatever Hickman's explanation was.

Hickman’s explanation was that Forge would never achieve being the Omega, even though he is technically the most powerful mutant in his classification is because his upper limit could hypothetically be surpassed, and has been surpassed by multiple humans. Probably referring to characters like Doctor Doom.

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PyroFN

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Jean Grey and Scott should never have gotten into a relationship post-recent resurrections.

The idea of Scott, Jean, and Logan’s poly relationship is better than the overdone love triangle. Granted, it’s not a good development currently either, but this isn’t a popular opinions thread.

Scott had nothing to apologize for back then and was forced to anyways.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver should be retconned back into the X-Fold. Their relationship with Magneto was the most interesting thing about them and frankly, still is.

The Phoenix Force can be used effectively for telling good stories by going into its lore. Writers just don’t know how to use it.

The Phoenix Five is an interesting concept, but some of the members (*cough* Namor *cough*) were bad choices.

Hope Summers should have been built to be an eventual team leader to the next iteration of the X-Men.

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Koays

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#44  Edited By Koays

@cattlebattle: Except again, most of these traits are informed.

Shes Jean's best friend and they had like 2 scenes together.

Shes Kitty's best friend because....because.

Shes a kungfu master because....because.

Shes loved by everyone because....Claremont?

I mean come on if the reason the character has so many problems is the writer gave them alot of problems it doesnt remove the problems.

I mean come on, she's treated as a Superman level moral authority with supposedly unflappable standards of justice. Cyclops spent his entire existence with the same traits but better explored and was the most boring character because of it....but at least we knew why and it was acknowledged in story.

Storms problem isnt that she can do anything and everything.....its that we're told she can do anything as opposed to being shown and watching her grow into someone who can do these things.

She doesnt develop, these traits are just applied to her like they were stapled onto her forehead by the creators without cause or reason.....

Like I said, it's kinda because she does have some moments and stories that established some traits...but she does come off that way because all of these traits are repeatedly drilled into that she has without her ever showcasing them.

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IndomitableRegal

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Jean, Hope, Rachel, and Scott are all insufferable, and if the Summers/Grey clan needs to be a thing, I'd rather focus on Cable, X-Man, and Vulcan. Emma Frost is also insufferable.

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cattlebattle

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@koays: I don't know what "traits are informed" means. Any of Storm's traits are pretty self explanatory I think.

2 scenes?? Dude, they're two characters that have been around since 1975 on the same team. They've had way more than that. Classic X-men alone has like two or three stories where Storm and Jean bond.

She's like a motherly figure to Kitty. She is the first X-Man Kitty really got to know and she acted as a close friend to her ever since. Kitty was everyone's best friend....and if any character is going to be accused of being a Mary Sue....it's her.

Well, I've never seen Storm be referred to as a "kung fu master" but as an X-Man that trains in a Danger room constantly with the likes of Wolverine, I'd imagine she would be pretty adept at h2h combat. Most of the X-Men are.

She's desired by several villains because she is supposed to be extremely beautiful and exotic, and her power to control the weather is pretty impressive in itself. As for actual love interests she's had like Black Panther, Forge and Yukio??

Again, almost every character has nearly flawless moral authority. Even Wolverine, who has a really shady past full or murder and other dark shit sounds like Obama when he's discussing principles and standards. This is just a more modern thing anyways. Storm used to be more willing to kill than most of the other X-Men.

In the modern day writers are super untalented, and we live in this weird racial struggle session right now in the west, so, Storm, as a "powerful woman of color" is going to be flawless, or someone might lose there job. Anyways, we did see Storm grow into her role. When she first joins the team in 1975 she is a naive foreigner that thinks herself a Goddess that slowly grows into a hardened, more grounded leader of the X-men.

Look, I know Storm fans are really annoying, and I feel like people hate Storm because their activity on here. However, most of Storm's developments are pretty catalogued and evident. As for female characters being ridiculous in terms of skills and traits, well, that's a Claremont thing that just carried over because the X-men became popular and people tried to recreate his formula. Kitty Pryde, Rogue, Storm, Moonstar, Jean, etc were all capable of ridiculous things and ass kickery. Rachel gets the Phoenix powers from a snow globe and immediately battles the Beyonder.

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Koays

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@cattlebattle: Hey, I'm not gonna keep arguing it back and fourth, because it's not a Storm fan, or a Storm hate thing but its gonna look like one if we keep going back and fourth.

At the end of the day this is the woman who suddenly goes h2h with actual martial artist like Black Panther, Viper and hand ninjas because she fought Calisto once.

You can downplay it all you want and try to justify the fact that all of this was established by Claremont in the original run, but the fact that she was stacked with all these character traits with 5 years of her existence is already an eyebrow raiser, but that every single one of those 600 traits have grown a life of their own in universe without logic or reason.

Storm joined a undetground fight club and beat all the fighters, Storm went to Africa and became a wakanda goddess, Storm went on a rescue mission with Illyana so she's got magical ancestry, Storm was on a team with people so everyone looks up to her. Storm is beautiful so every male she meets wants to bang her

Its not just about how long shes been around. Pick a Storm trait and I'll show you it taken to an illogical extreme and show you 3 more traits or qualities we've been told she has without evidence.

Storm suffers from the same problems Wolverine has but to a lesser degree. Shes everything to everybody and is capable of anything.

She hasnt had character development in 30 years because Claremont shot his Storm load in the 80s giving her a thousand different skills and now there arent any Storm stories left to tell, so they just tell us how great and important she is.

And just to make it clear to all, I dont dislike Storm, I just dont find her interesting because they try too hard to make her seem interesting.

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MagneticStorm

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#48  Edited By MagneticStorm

It's clear everyone has their own definition of "Mary Sue" lol. To me Ray "Skywalker" and MCU Captain Marvel are Ideal mary sue's, and you'd never see them repeatedly ko'd or making horrible leadership choices.

I think Storm is more of a "finn".

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HAWK2916

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#49  Edited By HAWK2916

Unpopular controversial opinions huh....

There should be no more Phoenix. It was a bad concept to begin with.

Though Days of Future past was ok for its time. There should be no more time travel its been overdone and is yet another ridiculous concept.

The use of magic should not be a part of the Xmen stories.

There are too many redundant characters and many should be merged

Xmen needs a reboot.

Xmen should be in their own universe

Morrison was one of the worst things to happen to Xmen

They need to stop just randomly turning people gay

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cattlebattle

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@koays: LMAO, you just don't want to go back and forth because you know your argument will deflate because it's already pretty transparent as it is.

I am not downplaying anything, if you think I am, you could point it out. The first 5 years Storm existed was 75 to 80, in that time all she really did was cower over her claustrophobia and pick a lock because she was revealed to have been a thief. Wow, "Dat mary sue"

I don't know why you're hung up on her fighting prowess. She grew up in the streets of Cairo and joined a mutant militia force that trains extensively, and she married Black Panther who is a good fighter himself. She's good at fighting. Lots of comic characters are. Nightcrawler once beat almost everyone in an intergalactic sword tournament. Rogue has had her powers shut off and has beaten groups of people with little effort. It's super hero comics. The protagonists do over the top things.

I don't know where you're getting this "everybody loves her", "everybody looks up to her" thing from. Has that been stated factually anywhere??

She hasnt had character development in 30 years because Claremont shot his Storm load in the 80s giving her a thousand different skills and now there arent any Storm stories left to tell, so they just tell us how great and important she is.

This whole paragraph can be applied to nearly every character. What great developments have most characters had in 30 years?? Wolverine has bone claws and the Romulus stuff?? Nightcrawler becomes a depressing priest and is revealed to be a demon?? Colossus is an Acolyte, no wait, he's dead, no wait, he's alive, no wait, he's a Juggernaut, no wait, he's a horsemen, no, wait, he's not. And what are these "thousands of different skills" you're talking about?? She was thief and knows thief tactics and is a good fighter?? Well holy shit, this totally snuffs every character, including someone like Beast, who can just basically whip up any science to fix almost any situation.

Well, at least they try to make her seem interesting. Most characters don't even get that luxury. They just appear in the background or in an issue as X-Man #0056327