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Posted by Koays (10584 posts) 2 months, 20 hours ago

Poll: X-Men of the Year Awards: Best Villain of the Year (18 votes)

Ahab 11%
Cassandra Nova 39%
Mesmero 6%
Mothervine Faction (Havok, Bastian, Ms. Sinister and Emma Frost) 39%
Esme Cuckoo 0%
Lydia Nance 0%
X-Man 6%
Nova
Nova
Mesmero
Mesmero
Team Mothervine
Team Mothervine
Ahab
Ahab
Lydia Nance
Lydia Nance

X-Man
X-Man
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#1 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

Mothervine.

Did the writer get that idea from this site: Comic Vine? lol :)

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#2 Posted by PyroFN (5670 posts) - - Show Bio

I’d say Cassandra Nova, with Mothervine team as a runner-up. These two teams were well written for the most part, were credible threats, and succeeded in their ultimate goals for the most part.

Mesmero’s motives weren’t entirely clear, or maybe not interesting for me to care to remember.

Lydia Nance motives were basic and she seemed more like an obstacle in the X-Men’s path, rather than their actual foe.

Ahab probably would’ve been considered if he actually succeeded. Granted the alternate future implies that he may have succeeded, but we don’t exactly know what happened to young Bobby to say it was Ahab.

Esme Cuckoo was disturbing, but they used her in a X-23 comic. Don’t get me wrong. It was a good story arc and Esme came real close to winning, but the story was too self-contained to give Esme the boost she needed.

X-Mans story is still too new to say for sure. Plus X-Man’s fives aren’t villainous per se, more like misguided due to a desperate man. Antagonist seems more fitting.

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#3 Posted by IndomitableRegal (15394 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, I knew X-Man came back, but I didn't know it was as a villain............

Right. Cassandra Nova. She scares me.

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#4 Posted by MrNihal (3026 posts) - - Show Bio

Mothervine for me.It was the best arc this year..

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#5 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

I say Cassandra nova mostly because I think she was overall more interesting than the others on the list. Bonus points for settling the Jean vs Xavier in telepathy debate.

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#6 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: Lol how'd she settle that? She gave Jean a low TK showing while Jean spent basically 8 issues casually (at least according to the art) defending against her. Xavier's only confrontation with Nova ended with him dying....twice.

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#7 Posted by GladeusEx (661 posts) - - Show Bio

Best villain of the year is Tom Taylor. All the other villains are small fry in comparison to how terrible his writing is, and the fact that nothing can stop him.

All the other villains here could be fought to a standstill. Not Tom Taylor though, he just keeps on chugging.

Mothervine.

Did the writer get that idea from this site: Comic Vine? lol :)

Mothervine is a concept from Ultimate X-Men. It's highly implied that Ms Sinister is the Ultimate version of Mr Sinister.

Though I do await the day Comicvine takes over my mind and gives me horrific powers.

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#8 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Mostly referring to the issue 11 in the x men red comic, where Cassandra nova was standing over Jean and Jean had a bloody nose which usually indicates some form of psychic battle. But now that I reread it, it was probably just tk since Cassandra’s hands were glowing green. And I just assumed Xavier’s power boost made him a bit equal to Her or at least slightly weaker. I have to rethink it a bit. I swear, if I’m turning into a jhazz I might have to delete this account lol.

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#9 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: Lol they were bull charging at eachother right before they clashed. In pretty sure Jean just lost that clash of tk given the lack of anything else of the fight being shown.

Xaviers power boost is a factor, but not one we can put against Nova since she pretty much overpowered everyone and given the fact that Jean was likely stronger then Xavier by the end of New X-men we'd have to first prove that Xavier is stronger then current Jean by comparing their feats.

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#10 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@gladeusex: Lol wait Tom Taylor...over The Guggenheim?

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#11 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Based on that I would put Xavier above Jean. Even if you count the tp feats from endsong and New x-men(which I don’t anymore, personally), I’d still put Xavier above her. Much as I want Jean to be more powerful, I just think his feats are overall better.

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#12 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: Of course thats fair. Though Jean's feats from both New X-men and Endsong are definetly canon. It's hard to dissect the Jean Xavier puzzle, because while he's almost always stated as the most powerful mind on the planet, Jean's power is has been stated many times to be beyond his or to much for him to handle. For all we know it could be the combination of her powers that is being described. Though I personally subscribe to Jean having greater raw TP power then Xavier because theres been at least 4 times where she does things and he has no clue how she even did it.

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#13 Edited by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: They definitely are cannon, but I honestly don’t know how much the Phoenix force are related to those. I want to say the whole doing the imposible is due to having unlimited psi potential but even then afterwards Xavier is still said to be the most powerful in the planet with the exception of New X-men. But then again, i still don’t know how much the Phoenix force plays into some of those feats.

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#14 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: well anytime its said after New X-men doesnt really count....since shes dead. But consider this. When Jean was first trying out her telepathy she was able to sense and find Scott while Xavier could only pick him up through her senses, and while Cassandra Nova needed Cerebra to switch bodies with Xavier, Jean did it in a clutch situation without any boost to Emma Frost and Xavier couldn't had no clue how she did it. It's an interesting dynamic.

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#15 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: I was talking about the statements before New x-men. I don’t think anyone said Xavier was more powerful than her after she started showing signs of Phoenix manifestations. Also, didn’t Jean just put Xavier’s mind in her head? If so, she did have Cerebra on. But your point still stands. I guess I’m just being to skeptical about this.

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#16 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: She put him in her head but that was without cerebro. Same as when she body swapped with comatose Emma.

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#17 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: I’m looking at the comic right now and she definitely had cerebra on her head

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#18 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: Lol true she did. I was confused because it makes no sense that she walked out of the Cerebra room instead of just splitting him on the spot considering they knew Nova was on the way and were already poisoned by the nano sentinels.

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#19 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: I thought I was going crazy for a second lol. But I guess at the end of the day, what she did in new x men was impossible even with cerebra according to Xavier

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#20 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Mostly referring to the issue 11 in the x men red comic, where Cassandra nova was standing over Jean and Jean had a bloody nose which usually indicates some form of psychic battle. But now that I reread it, it was probably just tk since Cassandra’s hands were glowing green. And I just assumed Xavier’s power boost made him a bit equal to Her or at least slightly weaker. I have to rethink it a bit. I swear, if I’m turning into a jhazz I might have to delete this account lol.

lol :)

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#21 Edited by cattlebattle (17523 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Lydia Nance, only because all the other characters have been done to death and they are as interesting as Cobra Commander at this juncture if you get my point.

And yes, I acknowledge Lydia Nance is just basically that trick where a writer inserts a character so they can basically argue their own personal worldview with them, as demonstrated with her rhetoric. Though, the thing I find funny is that all these anti mutant types are usually right, some lone mutants could wreck a country all by themselves....so, they are something that should be monitored. And what the hell is with the "race is just skin color" argument, I always hear that. As I a white dude I can't just get a tan and just claim that I am Indian. As a supposed "bigot", Lydia should know better.

And lol at Mesmero still being around. I am still pretty sure that guy raped Jean Grey back in the day when he had the X-Men join the circus. He probably made Cyclops watch too. :D

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#22 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

The X-men Gold villain should be in the poll

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#23 Posted by PyroFN (5670 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: I also want mention that a couple pages later, Jean is standing just fine after being bloodied like you described. So, one would have to question if Jean really lost that clash at all.

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#24 Posted by PyroFN (5670 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Also in addition, she held Xavier in her head, while still sick.

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#25 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: funny thing is so many sites have taken to critiquing her as being a "straw bigot" politician. One site even saying that shes just another anti mutant politician that the X-men deal with all the time.

I dont agree with it because unlike any other time the anti-mutant politicians are brought up she actually raised some really strong points about how dangerous the mutants are. And either through bad writing or a lack of a strong counter argument she basically crushes Kitty's argument. Honestly if they hadn't gone full "I hate mutants so I'm going to be irrationally over the top in how i Express this" with her and let her just be the political opposition to Kitty and the X-men who damages their image, then she couldve been a lasting character instead of just another evil old person who teams up with sentinels.

Her exchange with kitty is very much why I want to see where Kittys presidential run goes. Since Gold pretty much had Kitty making classic superhero good guy lines before getting shit down by cold facts from every political opponent she went against.

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#26 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: Well she was bleeding from her nose, which shows a signs of a tp battle. She could have easily just wiped it off. think she could hold Xavier in her head was because she was an omega level telepath, meaning she just has more room in her head thanks to her unlimited potential, not specifically because she was stronger than him. I mean if Jean was just an omega class telepath like Emma or Charles, they just wouldn’t have room.

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#27 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: I still don’t understand why mutants don’t get why they’re feared. I mean how can they defend themselves f they don’t understand the opposing side. I mean I’ve never seen a mutant say “Huh, some of us can basically take over an entire nation with just our minds. Maybe they do have a point.” I mean as a black person myself, I can understand why some people might dislike me. Some of those reasons are quite valid. How can mutants end hatred towards them if they understand and validate the peoples’ reasoning?

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#28 Posted by PyroFN (5670 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: Unlimited Potential and power go hand-in-hand. Jean can’t have unlimited potential if the power doesn’t come along with it. Jeans power ultimately shows that she can handle excess amounts alongside it to a certain degree. I would have bargained that had she not gotten sick, she probably would’ve been capable of containing Charles in her head for a lot longer.

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#29 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: The blood from the nose likely came from the big tk charge. Her whole costume is scuffed and from clash. And theres no evidence of TP, just a panel with a ground destroying tk clash and then Jean on the floor with a.glowing first Nova over her.

Jean holding Xavier whether it was due to the amount of space or not is stated by him to not be possible. Which implies her doing something that he cannot. The fact that this is an active feat that she planned out first and accomplished with an external strain means that she could do this again, while Xavier as per himself could not. At this point we could/should make a thread to dissect Jean being stronger then Xavier.

Unlimited potential = more free brain space just doesnt compute for me since theres nothing to really back the idea.

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#30 Posted by cattlebattle (17523 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

@cattlebattle: funny thing is so many sites have taken to critiquing her as being a "straw bigot" politician. One site even saying that shes just another anti mutant politician that the X-men deal with all the time.

Dude, how many sites do you go to?? Isn't one enough??

@koays said:

I dont agree with it because unlike any other time the anti-mutant politicians are brought up she actually raised some really strong points about how dangerous the mutants are. And either through bad writing or a lack of a strong counter argument she basically crushes Kitty's argument. Honestly if they hadn't gone full "I hate mutants so I'm going to be irrationally over the top in how i Express this" with her and let her just be the political opposition to Kitty and the X-men who damages their image, then she couldve been a lasting character instead of just another evil old person who teams up with sentinels.

Yup, it's one of many, many reasons the "mutant metaphor" is completely washed out and it's hard to look at some of the anti mutant people as being "irrational". A lot of mutants are not only dangerous potentially and can do serious damage easily if they want to, but then the fact the X-Men basically behave like fascists a lot of time and go above the law to do what they think is right would be another cause for concern.

@koays said:

Her exchange with kitty is very much why I want to see where Kittys presidential run goes. Since Gold pretty much had Kitty making classic superhero good guy lines before getting shit down by cold facts from every political opponent she went against.

Eh, I really hope we don't get this. We already have enough "Standing up against Donarld Blumpf!!" allusions in every facet of the media, and the anti mutant bigot character Kitty will run against will no doubt be another analogy and Kitty will be the perfect, liberal, global citizen that defeats them with kind words and promises of equality. It would be so ham fisted and corny.

The world of politics is super duty, and it would be interesting if KItty and the X-Men had to get their hands muddied to compete. The X-Men, and Kitty Pryde by affiliation, have a laundry list of international law violations among other things in their past, and it would be interesting if this caused chaos for her political endeavors. Maybe Kitty and the X-Men have to do something unlawful to protect secrets from being released about her father's time working with the Yakuza. Then the X-men are forced to become pawns of whoever is financing her campaign at the threat of blackmail. Lots of stuff you could do with it.

If Kitty's political career is just going to be sunshine and liberal progressive, bullshit platitude speeches, they should just skip the whole thing.

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#31 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Well like always you blow my conclusions out of the water. I wonder why a thread like that hasn’t been done yet.

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#32 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@elpendejo: Lol well to start as black person I dont feel thered anything about me being black that alone would make someone dislike me. If the only thing you told a person before they open a door an see me is that I'm black, then anything they think about me(positive or negative) is based totally and completely on themselves and their life and prejudements.

Without added information about my background, environment or choice of lifestyle you cant make a judgement on me sight unseen based on my race alone that is reflective of anything other then yourself. Which is what makes Lydia Nance's point of taking an axe to the mutant metaphor so pointed. Because if a mutant is on the other side of the door, then whether they are a 26year old superhero nerd or a gangbanger from the Southside they could pose a threat to me and my family because I dont know what they can do, how well they can control it and if they are sensible enough not to use that potential power to take advantage. Lydia Nance's argument is the REALITY of mutants in society.

Had this been in Morrisons run where mutants were in the 10s of millions and had begun to developed their own culture and communities, then thered be more of an argument for the world having to accept that this is the direction that life and possibly evolution is taking. But Mutants have been nearly extinct repeatedly over the last few years and only a handful of the known ones are over 30. So the argument she possess about isolating a growing threat to the populace makes alot more sense then an argument about hating on a large portion of the population who are growing daily.

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#33 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: They do go hand-in-hand, i think we just have different definitions. I would go over mine, but I feel it’d take to long to explain.

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#34 Posted by ElPendejo (1413 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: Well thats basically my point. If mutants don’t understand the reality that they’re in and the threat that they can potentially pose, how can they expect people to listen to them?

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#35 Posted by Koays (10584 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: Eh, Google had this thing the last couple of months where they give me ads under my search bar. I cant look for directions without seeing an article related comics.*shrug*

Lol it's an interesting argument that could be made about the X-Men overstepping. It WOULDVE made Nance stand out more as a political adversary. But again in the end the X-Men are usually proved right because the people who they overstep and go after dont just dislike mutants....they build 60ft death machines, hate plagues, and genetically engineered monsters dedicated strictly to the cause of killing mutants. Which takes unhealthy but understandable hatred and takes it to Dr Doom levels of villainy....even though they started off as just not wanting mutants in their restaurants.

Honestly a darker political take on Kittys attempt at running for president would be great, especially if they make it obvious how the murky real world of politics basically tramples all over the damn near Golden age level of good guy idealism that Kitty's X-men ideal is. Which is why I'd really love for her to be paired with Emma Frost in any type of serious showcasing of this political step. It would keep the naivete away, while also giving Kitty an ally who can let Kittys idealism win without being immediately swayed away from playing dirty. It would be great for an extended series even after the presidential stuff. Govenor Kitty and Emma Frost pairing

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#36 Posted by cattlebattle (17523 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Eh, Google had this thing the last couple of months where they give me ads under my search bar. I cant look for directions without seeing an article related comics.*shrug*

You took candy from strangers as a child, didn't you??

@koays said:

Lol it's an interesting argument that could be made about the X-Men overstepping. It WOULDVE made Nance stand out more as a political adversary. But again in the end the X-Men are usually proved right because the people who they overstep and go after dont just dislike mutants....they build 60ft death machines, hate plagues, and genetically engineered monsters dedicated strictly to the cause of killing mutants. Which takes unhealthy but understandable hatred and takes it to Dr Doom levels of villainy....even though they started off as just not wanting mutants in their restaurants.

You know, the funny thing is that outside of their first appearance Sentinels are rarely manufactured and controlled by anti mutant politicians. Rachel's Days of Future Past timeline was catalyzed by Shadow King controlling the Hellfire Club, then several times throughout the 80s, the Sentinels were usually the result of Sebastian Shaw's machinations, then Dark Beast set them out during Onslaught, Cassandra Nova was responsible for the Genoshan massacre, Bastion's entire existence and subsequent actions like Operation Zero Tolerance were the result of the X-Men's carelessness and desperation with Siege Perilous...which fused Nimrod and Master Mold to create Bastion. Evem things like the Legacy Virus, which specifically kills mutants was designed by Apocalypse and Stryfe, both mutants and brought back into the past because of Cable and Stryfe tampering with the timeline.

The argument that the X-Men are justified because humans set giant death robots upon them and always try to doom them is sort of not true. The majority of the time mutants create problems for other mutants.

@koays said:

Honestly a darker political take on Kittys attempt at running for president would be great, especially if they make it obvious how the murky real world of politics basically tramples all over the damn near Golden age level of good guy idealism that Kitty's X-men ideal is. Which is why I'd really love for her to be paired with Emma Frost in any type of serious showcasing of this political step. It would keep the naivete away, while also giving Kitty an ally who can let Kittys idealism win without being immediately swayed away from playing dirty. It would be great for an extended series even after the presidential stuff. Govenor Kitty and Emma Frost pairing

I get people like the Frost/Pryde dynamic seeing as they don't like each other but I don't know, I can't really see Frost caring much about politics, even when she ran with the Inner Circle, political manipulations seemed to be more of Shaw's thing.

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#37 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

@cattlebattle: funny thing is so many sites have taken to critiquing her as being a "straw bigot" politician. One site even saying that shes just another anti mutant politician that the X-men deal with all the time.

I dont agree with it because unlike any other time the anti-mutant politicians are brought up she actually raised some really strong points about how dangerous the mutants are. And either through bad writing or a lack of a strong counter argument she basically crushes Kitty's argument. Honestly if they hadn't gone full "I hate mutants so I'm going to be irrationally over the top in how i Express this" with her and let her just be the political opposition to Kitty and the X-men who damages their image, then she couldve been a lasting character instead of just another evil old person who teams up with sentinels.

Her exchange with kitty is very much why I want to see where Kittys presidential run goes. Since Gold pretty much had Kitty making classic superhero good guy lines before getting shit down by cold facts from every political opponent she went against.

She's just a female version of Professor X

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#38 Posted by JeannieH (180 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrnihal: It made me sit up and notice Magneto. I found a new level of respect for the master of magnetism. It was really really good.

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#39 Posted by AsheTDust (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahab. He actually managed to take out a few heroes. Something none of the other villains could do.

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#40 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

Kologoth should have been on the poll.