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#1 Posted by Supermanthor (13243 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone ?

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#2 Posted by GladeusEx (654 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll leave my thoughts in short form as pluses (+), iffy on whether I'm divided (~), and negatives (-)

++ Crystal and Black Bolt used to be cool. She was a decent around-about the time she had long hair, and Black Bolt during the Thane arc where he stands up to Thanos. Also - Thane. The life and death in each hand motiff (similar to Elixir) which I've always found neat. I've liked it more since I found Moira in Overwatch.

+ They were fun in Marvel Avengers Alliance. It's a long gone facebook game, but I have good memories of it.

+ They actually did decent training montages in some of their books, roundabout the time Dante/Inferno was introduced.

~ They're royalty with none of the burden that comes with it

~ I've never watched the TV series, but I hear it's bad (with its only saving grace being a said burden of royalty/caste system)

- They're discount X-Men in all the worst ways.

-- They someone managed to have an even more cringy diversity squad

-- Death of the Inhumans was the biggest cop-out that was equally as bad as Death of FosThor.

-- Inhumans vs X-Men was the biggest morality hit-job I've seen in a long, long time, twisting Emma Frost (again) to make someone else look comparatively better.

--- The Inhumans have NO GOOD INHUMAN VILLAINS. Heroes are defined by their villains, and the Inhumans have no great villains set-up; somebody who compels the reader, actually challenge the plucky heroes, or cause the need for a conscious sacrifice play. The best they have is Maximus, who is basically Loki. And Loki is all over the place.


So yeah, more negatives than positives.

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#3 Posted by MrNihal (3006 posts) - - Show Bio

They should've stayed on the moon.

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#4 Posted by McKlayn (2628 posts) - - Show Bio

screw em

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#5 Edited by adamTRMM (8931 posts) - - Show Bio

They were one of the fine inventions of Kirby's creative mind and War of Kings was as close as Marvel ever got to Game of Thrones... But then Inhumanity happened. In and of itself it wasn't bad, unless you're an overly sensitive and insecure X-fanatic. But then shit got real and X-insecurities became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like I said, shit got real, but only THEN.

I maintain a theory that said fanatics brought Terrigen Fart as a concept that invaded X-books on themselves. Well and we all suffered as the result...

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#6 Posted by Koays (10531 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I didn't care about them before. I read Son of M. And thought they were mildly interesting. I read War of Kings and found them overall the least interesting part of it.

IvX and the InHuman conflict was a terrible creative direction for alot of reasons.

1- We had just gotten through a near extinction event with the Decimation Era, and hadn't even had chance to explore the new Mutant world with so many people regaining their powers.

2- The Decimation and Schism plots had both been brought to an end as the X-men and mutants seemed to have mended fences and been looking forward positively for the first time in years by the end of Uncanny 600 and IvX undid it by bringing back infighting and splintering.

3. It came at a point when fans of the X-Men had felt that the poor quality and disorganized structure of the X-men in and out of universe was do to intentional being overlooked in favor of other Marvel properties.

4. Cyclops. Who had become popular seemingly inspite of Marvels creative direction. Who had seemed to have redeemed himself in the eyes of the X-Men, who had easily been the most relevant character and plot in the X-Men team books. Was killed off and painted as a villain in what would ultimately become a plot hole.

All of this upset fans to the point where the thought was that the X-men were simply being fed to the Inhumans and bred a resentment that was very similar but WAY less corgial then the X-fan vs Avengers beef.

I dont have a problem with the Inhumans now because I have gone back to never thinking about them. But IvX is a terrible story where instead of the positive note we had expected to go into, we got a plot where we are somehow supposed to be sympathetic to a group who are killing people with a cloud of death just because they want to forcibly strengthen their own numbers.

I didn't care about them before, but I'm certainly not siding with them when my favorite characters and franchise are being killed off because the Inhumans want to protect a cloud that might give you superpowers. You can keep that nonsense.

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#7 Posted by BullPR (5759 posts) - - Show Bio

I used to really like them.

Then with the push to use them to replace the X-Men before the Disnry/Fox deal became more and more obvious and I started to resent it+++

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#8 Posted by cattlebattle (17501 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked the initial idea behind them as they were par for course of weird, Kirby shit. I also don't mind them as subspecies of Marvel floating around the ether and prefer them over the likes of The Eternals or other races like that.

Like many other people though I wasn't a fan of the "NuHumans" BS with the obvious attempt at replacement of the mutant lore in Marvel. What were they thinking??

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#9 Posted by deactivated-5c6600594117e (22316 posts) - - Show Bio

They're mildly interesting characters that don't have the depth or lore to carry monthly series. They should be used sparingly at best.

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#10 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Honestly I didn't care about them before. I read Son of M. And thought they were mildly interesting. I read War of Kings and found them overall the least interesting part of it.

IvX and the InHuman conflict was a terrible creative direction for alot of reasons.

1- We had just gotten through a near extinction event with the Decimation Era, and hadn't even had chance to explore the new Mutant world with so many people regaining their powers.

2- The Decimation and Schism plots had both been brought to an end as the X-men and mutants seemed to have mended fences and been looking forward positively for the first time in years by the end of Uncanny 600 and IvX undid it by bringing back infighting and splintering.

3. It came at a point when fans of the X-Men had felt that the poor quality and disorganized structure of the X-men in and out of universe was do to intentional being overlooked in favor of other Marvel properties.

4. Cyclops. Who had become popular seemingly inspite of Marvels creative direction. Who had seemed to have redeemed himself in the eyes of the X-Men, who had easily been the most relevant character and plot in the X-Men team books. Was killed off and painted as a villain in what would ultimately become a plot hole.

All of this upset fans to the point where the thought was that the X-men were simply being fed to the Inhumans and bred a resentment that was very similar but WAY less corgial then the X-fan vs Avengers beef.

I dont have a problem with the Inhumans now because I have gone back to never thinking about them. But IvX is a terrible story where instead of the positive note we had expected to go into, we got a plot where we are somehow supposed to be sympathetic to a group who are killing people with a cloud of death just because they want to forcibly strengthen their own numbers.

I didn't care about them before, but I'm certainly not siding with them when my favorite characters and franchise are being killed off because the Inhumans want to protect a cloud that might give you superpowers. You can keep that nonsense.

Me too on the bolded statement.

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#11 Posted by Takeshi57 (322 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:

Honestly I didn't care about them before. I read Son of M. And thought they were mildly interesting. I read War of Kings and found them overall the least interesting part of it.

IvX and the InHuman conflict was a terrible creative direction for alot of reasons.

1- We had just gotten through a near extinction event with the Decimation Era, and hadn't even had chance to explore the new Mutant world with so many people regaining their powers.

2- The Decimation and Schism plots had both been brought to an end as the X-men and mutants seemed to have mended fences and been looking forward positively for the first time in years by the end of Uncanny 600 and IvX undid it by bringing back infighting and splintering.

3. It came at a point when fans of the X-Men had felt that the poor quality and disorganized structure of the X-men in and out of universe was do to intentional being overlooked in favor of other Marvel properties.

4. Cyclops. Who had become popular seemingly inspite of Marvels creative direction. Who had seemed to have redeemed himself in the eyes of the X-Men, who had easily been the most relevant character and plot in the X-Men team books. Was killed off and painted as a villain in what would ultimately become a plot hole.

All of this upset fans to the point where the thought was that the X-men were simply being fed to the Inhumans and bred a resentment that was very similar but WAY less corgial then the X-fan vs Avengers beef.

I dont have a problem with the Inhumans now because I have gone back to never thinking about them. But IvX is a terrible story where instead of the positive note we had expected to go into, we got a plot where we are somehow supposed to be sympathetic to a group who are killing people with a cloud of death just because they want to forcibly strengthen their own numbers.

I didn't care about them before, but I'm certainly not siding with them when my favorite characters and franchise are being killed off because the Inhumans want to protect a cloud that might give you superpowers. You can keep that nonsense.

Oh dang, I forgot how toxic IvX was towards X-Men fans. I guess the fact that the Inhumans show was trash eased it and it proved to Marvel that X-Men can't get replaced so easily and Inhumans have gone back to the hole Marvel found them.

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#12 Posted by darthphoenix (2345 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that jean is back, i want a round 2

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#13 Posted by HAWK2916 (4812 posts) - - Show Bio

In one word they are ..... UNNECESSARY.

At the best they are supporting characters for the Fantastic Four. Don't know why they got mixed into being associated with the Xmen. The only purpose was a piss poor attempt to replace the Xmen.

I really only ever thought Black Bolt and Medusa we're mildly interesting in small doses. Just give me Banshee for the powerful destructive voice, he's a much better and more interesting character. I can't even get behind the rationale or the love for Kamala Khan as Ms. Marvel. The title is completely undeserved for a new character. I said give it to Monet... she's Muslim if that's what you're going for and her skillset is the closest to what you should want a character named Ms.Marvel to be. In fact she could be very similar to what Carol was when she with the Xmen on a few adventures.

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#14 Posted by Takeshi57 (322 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916: Yeah, it bugs me that a nuhuman is Ms. Marvel now and Squirrel Girl is randomly a human mutate for no reason.

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#15 Edited by HAWK2916 (4812 posts) - - Show Bio

@takeshi57: yeah it just cheapens the title. Then again changing Ms.Marvel to Captain Marvel wasn't necessarily the greatest idea in my opinion either

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#16 Posted by boschePG (6261 posts) - - Show Bio

Outside of a couple outside the Royal family, they are pretty much fodder. I know how Doom Patrol was supposed to be DCs X-Men, but I think Inhumans are Marvel's Doom Patrol pretty much.

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#17 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel making IvX was so wrong that it made X-Men fans don't care about Inhumans anymore.

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#18 Edited by cattlebattle (17501 posts) - - Show Bio
@hawk2916 said:

I can't even get behind the rationale or the love for Kamala Khan as Ms. Marvel. The title is completely undeserved for a new character. I said give it to Monet... she's Muslim if that's what you're going for and her skillset is the closest to what you should want a character named Ms.Marvel to be.

Far be it for me to derail a thread and get political (ha no I'm kidding I do this shit all the time) but am I the only who always found the Monet retcon a little weird considering a character named freaking "Monet St. Croix"is a canonical Muslim. I mean, that's sort of an extremely french Christian name. Peter David just made her a muslim so he could have a mouthpiece to yell at character (wound up being Siryn) for being "islamaphobic" because he is a shitty liberal who has to let you know what he thinks about everything.

Next he will introduce a character named Muhammed Abdul Kareem who will school Wolverine on the dangers of rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ and of course, my favorite Hebrew, Beatriz St. Augustine. I mean, it's not like religion is insanely influential of names in the Middle East or in N. Africa or anything...

Oh yeah, and nobody likes Kamala Kahn.

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#19 Posted by Takeshi57 (322 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

I can't even get behind the rationale or the love for Kamala Khan as Ms. Marvel. The title is completely undeserved for a new character. I said give it to Monet... she's Muslim if that's what you're going for and her skillset is the closest to what you should want a character named Ms.Marvel to be.

Far be it from me to derail a thread and get political (ha no I'm kidding I do this shit all the time) but am I the only who always found the Monet retcon a little weird considering a character named freaking "Monet St. Croix"is a canonical Muslim. I mean, that's sort of an extremely french Christian name. Peter David just made her a muslim so he could have a mouthpiece to yell at character (wound up being Siryn) for being "islamaphobic" because he is a shitty liberal who has to let you know what he thinks about everything.

Next he will introduce a character named Muhammed Abdul Kareem who will school Wolverine on the dangers of rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ and of course, my favorite Hebrew, Beatriz St. Augustine. I mean, it's not like religion is insanely influential of names in the Middle East or in N. Africa or anything...

Oh yeah, and nobody likes Kamala Kahn.

No-one likes her? Then why won't she go away?

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#20 Posted by cattlebattle (17501 posts) - - Show Bio

No-one likes her? Then why won't she go away?

Because the tumblr crowd that was the catalyst for her character being created in the first place would send death threats.

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#21 Posted by HAWK2916 (4812 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: I'm guessing she could be French-Moroccan and have a Muslim background. It's not unheard of. The name is a bit off considering but who knows maybe it's convert type deal.

My point is Monet was already there and much more Captain Marvel like with her abilities than a stretchy teenager newly introduced

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#22 Edited by adamTRMM (8931 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't that PAD that canonized her as Muslim? Anyway, considering how many retcons Monet has been through (from being actually a fusion manifestation of the twins, then Hollow and stuff), I guess that's the least convoluted part of her. I never read Gen X, but I heard there were contradictions in portrayal of her father too. Once he was white, other times brown. Genxers, help me here.

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#23 Posted by MrNihal (3006 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix: She already confronted a black bolt & he forgave her.

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#24 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

I can't even get behind the rationale or the love for Kamala Khan as Ms. Marvel. The title is completely undeserved for a new character. I said give it to Monet... she's Muslim if that's what you're going for and her skillset is the closest to what you should want a character named Ms.Marvel to be.

Far be it for me to derail a thread and get political (ha no I'm kidding I do this shit all the time) but am I the only who always found the Monet retcon a little weird considering a character named freaking "Monet St. Croix"is a canonical Muslim. I mean, that's sort of an extremely french Christian name. Peter David just made her a muslim so he could have a mouthpiece to yell at character (wound up being Siryn) for being "islamaphobic" because he is a shitty liberal who has to let you know what he thinks about everything.

Next he will introduce a character named Muhammed Abdul Kareem who will school Wolverine on the dangers of rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ and of course, my favorite Hebrew, Beatriz St. Augustine. I mean, it's not like religion is insanely influential of names in the Middle East or in N. Africa or anything...

Oh yeah, and nobody likes Kamala Kahn.

That is incorrect. I know you were trying to exaggerate but I just feel the need to mention that sales of Kamala Kahn's Ms Marvel ongoing solo did well.

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#25 Posted by cattlebattle (17501 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

Wasn't that PAD that canonized her as Muslim? Anyway, considering how many retcons Monet has been through (from being actually a fusion manifestation of the twins, then Hollow and stuff), I guess that's the least convoluted part of her. I never read Gen X, but I heard there were contradictions in portrayal of her father too. Once he was white, other times brown. Genxers, help me here.

Yeah, her father was originally white, or at very least light skinned Algerian, as she was originally French-Algerian as well. Now she is evidently a sub saharan African muslim

That is incorrect. I know you were trying to exaggerate but I just feel the need to mention that sales of Kamala Kahn's Ms Marvel ongoing solo did well.

That book has never sold well.

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#26 Posted by adamTRMM (8931 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle:

French Algerian could mean that she's part of a diaspora, or that she's mixed I guess.

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#27 Posted by cattlebattle (17501 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

@cattlebattle:

French Algerian could mean that she's part of a diaspora, or that she's mixed I guess.

Oh yeah, I was wrong. Monet was originally from Monaco, which is a micro state near the Mediterranean area of Europe. I think Monet is just supposed to be an olive skinned white person, lol. And if you go back and look at the Christmas issues of Generation X, she obviously celebrates the holiday. Granted the original version of M is different from the one now, but, they are still all from the same family. I guess you could make up some bullshit like she converted, but, it looks like her entire character was retconned so Peter David could be a preachy liberal.

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#28 Posted by AsheTDust (1800 posts) - - Show Bio

The Inhumans haven’t aged well. They like most of Kirby’s cosmic races are very much a creation of their age that haven’t been updated or polished to fit in well with contemporary times.

They work well as a supporting cast, but outside of maybe BlackBolt and Crystal none of the characters can hold their own as headliners. This became readily apparent when people just didn’t embrace the characters no matter how hard Marvel pushed them.

As a X-Men fan I honestly don’t care one way or the other about them. They just aren’t that interesting.

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#29 Posted by adamTRMM (8931 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle:

But CMIIW the Algerian aspect came before PAD, so him making her Muslim isn't really a stretch. I agree tho, being Muslim doesn't blend with her character all that well all things considered. Girl likes to show off some skin, gets around and generally isn't a humble burqa wearing good girl. So yeah, PAD pulled a typically western arrogance with that one. That said, same mentality could've been applied to her. Like she's that arrogant, rebel reformist type, again western style.

Anyway, I don't even know how ONE book (Gen X) could've made her so messed up lol

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#30 Posted by cattlebattle (17501 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm:

Apparently, they changed her background so that she was "born in Algeria, but moved to Monaco" and yet some other people think she is Morrocan for some reason, which is weird, and I guess maybe the writer was confused about what race she was and wanted to solidify her as a nonwhite, which is bizarre considering Generation X was originally pretty racially and ethnically diverse. It didn't even have a white, american male, which was a first for its time probably in terms of super hero teams.

Yeah, not only does her behavior and morals contradict the religion, but also the names of her entire family are heavily Roman Catholic/French Christian names, Emplate's real name was Marius. She also acknowledges Christmas and evidently celebrates it in the Gen X Christmas stories (there was like 3). Islam is heavily influential on the naming of of people that follow it. It's a lot to get into but despite what Westerners think, it's more than a religion in many ways. And yes, PAD just made her a muslim so that Siryn could be prejudiced and he could fan his balls about how tolerant he is, there is literally nothing else to back up the idea as far as I know.

Generation X had like 4 different writers who each had very different visions for the characters. Lobdell, who created the book, always stated that there was no "Monet" and the twins just created a gestalt form, which I have always liked personally, it would be like the X-Men had their own version of Captain Marvel, you know, the Shazam one. I also don't like the idea of mutants being born with Superman like, "perfect" powers. Anyways, Jay Faerber was evidently responsible for making her Algerian (I think) and was definitely responsible for over complicating her backstory, he also without coincidence was responsible for tanking the series along with Larry Hama.

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#31 Edited by adamTRMM (8931 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle:

Apparently, they changed her background so that she was "born in Algeria, but moved to Monaco" and yet some other people think she is Morrocan for some reason

lol

I've seen fans argue she was conceived as brown character of mixed race. But again, didn't read, wouldn't know. Algerian can be anything, as people of eastern ethnic groups like myself are, and vary in skin color tones anywhere from white to dark brown. My family has all the tones, though rarely pale/dark. Point is, when some people are pushy about attributing a specific skin color onto a certain region, they just show how ignorant, not tolerant, they really are. Best thing is just to be consistent with the character and roll with what was already done. Same with religion.

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#32 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

Wasn't that PAD that canonized her as Muslim? Anyway, considering how many retcons Monet has been through (from being actually a fusion manifestation of the twins, then Hollow and stuff), I guess that's the least convoluted part of her. I never read Gen X, but I heard there were contradictions in portrayal of her father too. Once he was white, other times brown. Genxers, help me here.

Yeah, her father was originally white, or at very least light skinned Algerian, as she was originally French-Algerian as well. Now she is evidently a sub saharan African muslim

That is incorrect. I know you were trying to exaggerate but I just feel the need to mention that sales of Kamala Kahn's Ms Marvel ongoing solo did well.

That book has never sold well.

It sold enough to keep her ongoing solo running.

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#33 Posted by cattlebattle (17501 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm:

Originally in her flashbacks her family is shown to be white, so, I don't know, I just always thought she was supposed to be Mediterranean. As for generalizations. yeah, it's comics, and comics tend to generalize especially with foreign countries. Also, Algeria is a predominantly Arabic country, so, I guess if anything she would be white/middle eastern. And yes, white people of European origins come in varying colors. My best friend is of Sicilian descent and is darker than a lot of people considered "hispanic", so, I just always thought M was supposed to be a Mediterranean that would be considered "white" if she had to fill out a census.

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#34 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

@cattlebattle:

Apparently, they changed her background so that she was "born in Algeria, but moved to Monaco" and yet some other people think she is Morrocan for some reason

lol

I've seen fans argue she was conceived as brown character of mixed race. But again, didn't read, wouldn't know. Algerian can be anything, as people of eastern ethnic groups like myself are, and vary in skin color tones anywhere from white to dark brown. My family has all the tones, though rarely pale/dark. Point is, when some people are pushy about attributing a specific skin color onto a certain region, they just show how ignorant, not tolerant, they really are. Best thing is just to be consistent with the character and roll with what was already done. Same with religion.

Indeed. and the fact that they are comic characters and can be colored by different colorists.

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#35 Posted by HAWK2916 (4812 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not the end of the world if Monet is not just another white character. Personally I think she should look middle eastern and that should be the end of it considering the history of Algeria going all the way back to the Carthaginians,Numidians, Romans, and Berbers, its highly likely that her skin color and ancestry would lend itself to her being more middle eastern or brown if you will in appearance. All that aside I think her origin and story though is highly convoluted. I think there is a way to explain it but it would also take ignoring Lobdells original gesalt intent.

Aside from all the "race" talk, I think her being Muslim is a nice play on what people are today when it comes to religion. For some religion is not a way of life but rather something thrown out when they feel it needs to be and then discarded when they want. Also many have their own interpretation and growing sense of rebellion against the status quo even if it's been established for centuries. And this is true in so called traditional Christianity as well as Non-Christian religions. Sure the whole "reveal" of her being Muslim was hamfisted and PAD policy but again it's conveniently put on the shelf when she wants it to be just like many people do.

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#36 Posted by jhazzroucher (25150 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

It's not the end of the world if Monet is not just another white character. Personally I think she should look middle eastern and that should be the end of it considering the history of Algeria going all the way back to the Carthaginians,Numidians, Romans, and Berbers, its highly likely that her skin color and ancestry would lend itself to her being more middle eastern or brown if you will in appearance. All that aside I think her origin and story though is highly convoluted. I think there is a way to explain it but it would also take ignoring Lobdells original gesalt intent.

Aside from all the "race" talk, I think her being Muslim is a nice play on what people are today when it comes to religion. For some religion is not a way of life but rather something thrown out when they feel it needs to be and then discarded when they want. Also many have their own interpretation and growing sense of rebellion against the status quo even if it's been established for centuries. And this is true in so called traditional Christianity as well as Non-Christian religions. Sure the whole "reveal" of her being Muslim was hamfisted and PAD policy but again it's conveniently put on the shelf when she wants it to be just like many people do.

I agree.

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#37 Posted by Supermanthor (13243 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#38 Posted by McKlayn (2628 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

Not sure why, but Inhumans are either hated, or completely irrelevant to X men fans, honestly the Inhumans are completely irrelevant to the entire Marvel U 99 percent of the time. They come in do one story line, then fade back into nothing, and now that disney has their mutant rights back the same thing will happen to them.

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#39 Posted by adamTRMM (8931 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

It's not the end of the world if Monet is not just another white character. Personally I think she should look middle eastern and that should be the end of it considering the history of Algeria going all the way back to the Carthaginians,Numidians, Romans, and Berbers, its highly likely that her skin color and ancestry would lend itself to her being more middle eastern or brown if you will in appearance. All that aside I think her origin and story though is highly convoluted. I think there is a way to explain it but it would also take ignoring Lobdells original gesalt intent.

Aside from all the "race" talk, I think her being Muslim is a nice play on what people are today when it comes to religion. For some religion is not a way of life but rather something thrown out when they feel it needs to be and then discarded when they want. Also many have their own interpretation and growing sense of rebellion against the status quo even if it's been established for centuries. And this is true in so called traditional Christianity as well as Non-Christian religions. Sure the whole "reveal" of her being Muslim was hamfisted and PAD policy but again it's conveniently put on the shelf when she wants it to be just like many people do.

I agree with that. As it stands, that's how it should be. The western, entitled approach to religion lol

And I like that she's brown.