Why the O5 AREN'T Breaking Marvel's Timeline

In Marvel Comics, it's been explained once that this is how Time Travel works:

Imagine a boat sailing across the sea. They end up sinking and only one man survives. That man then goes back in time to stop that, and when he goes back to his future nothing changes. However, there is now a timeline where what happened was averted. So when the O5 go back to the past, there'll just be a new timeline where the O5 X-Men are older. Besides, they aren't from 616's past. They're from Earth TRN240.

@geekmangacomic: is very confusing.
I do think they are from 616.
I think is kind of like "the days of future past "where Kitty go back to change all and she did. when she got back to the future nothing had change. When she alter a point in time is not that the correctly reality will the altered but will continue as is and will open a different reality with the results of that alteration.
is kind of like a a road with only one way every time that the timeline is change that road open a new direction with new possibilities result with that change and for there goes.
So in case the O5 do not go back I don't think the 616 reality as we know will end but will just create a new really where the O5 where not around.

The writers kind of just do what they want with time travel. Days of Future Past is a nice reference to support this theory, but there are things that contradict it as well. The big one in X-Men would be in Age of Apocalypse, because when they changed the past they ceased to exist.

bad writing (walks out)

@koays said:

@koays: hell yeah!!!

@geekmangacomic: @invain: @hawk2916: @koays: but time in 616 is also broken and they never fixed that yet LOL. also there is the whole teen cyclops almost died and adult cyclops vanish from existence(battle of the atom: BotA)LOL bendis way of trying to confirm that the O5 r from 616 LOL

but they already try to send the O5 back but was not possible something made they be stuck in the present so to be clear Beast completely F*** the timeline and we will probably see some parallel reality with the consequence of that.
ps: are the F4 still fixing the realities with Molecular Man? maybe they will be the ones to help the Xmen deal with that but probably after the IvX

But when Young Cyclops almost died Adult Cyclops was about to be erased from existence...I just think they over stayed their welcome long enough and got mixed up in lazy/bad writing.

Yes but when YC almost died was in the same parallel time where the old Cyclops was. they were sharing the same physical space at the moment so that would cause a immediate response but with focus on the time displacement, is creating a parallel reality where the O5 never exist, is fucking complicated and I'm not even sure if i get it to be honest, you could find 100 explanation and all the right and all be wrong at the same time.
they can go back at the same moment in the past that they leave but still we have the physical alteration on angel to explain and that would create a new parallel
or even if prof X change they memories will have a new other parallel where Prof X knew about the time travel.
or if Prof X change he's memories too than would open a new one in same where i dont know why... and other Jean is getting better and better with her powers Im sure if she got back she would not allow prof X to change her mind or she would made some kind of "trap "or something to safe that "experience ".
the is they are not going anywhere.
they would NEVER kill Cyclops if they didn't have a backup to hold the story specially with prof X death ( lets see how long that last ).
i dont think the timeline can be fix at this point. I think they will need to deal with the results of a parallel universe.

Sh@t like this just makes me wish they'd get rid of time travel as a whole in the X-men books.

It was never explained after black vortex. If I had to guess, it would only be hypotheses. Anyways, here are some explanations:

1) The timeline is still breaking. This one is unlikely though since Secret Wars, which leads to my next hypothesis.

2) Secret Wars fixed the timeline problem. This is the most likely to me due to the fact that the multi verse was broken and rebuilt by Molecule Man. If this is the case, he and the FF may have inadvertently cemented them as apart of the timeline, thereby, rebuilding it to the point where the O5 were recreated in their past and future.

In simpler terms, let's say I had five toys and moved them from one house to the next. Now after taking apart the two houses, my sibling comes by and fixes them, but he brings five other of the same toys and puts them in their original positions in the first house, while leaving the original five in the second. By virtue of this, the new toys take the old ones places and the old ones are left in the second house. I hope this makes things easier to digest. It is only a hypothesis.

3) The O5 are alternate versions. This is something I'm mentioning only because everyone else thought this was plausible despite the writers quotes. The problem I have for this is that Dooms time machine was supposed to send Beast through time, not alternate dimensions and such capabilities were never mentioned about the machine. And there aren't multiple pasts that lead to the same future, only multiople futures. That is what I have a problem with this hypothesis.

4) What the comic characters thought. Something is keeping them here. It is sort of a copy and paste for hypothesis number 2. The O5 were replaced in the past to keep the timeline from breaking apart. The only difference being is who. I think White Phoenix may have something to do with it, but that is more wishful thinking on my part.

What do you guys think?

Young O5 needs to leave and Marvel needs to revive Scott, Jean, Logan, and Xavier and Blue should feature the old O5 and Gold can have Logan without the Old Man part.

The idea that whatever ass pull Marvel puts out these days to have any ramifications?

They just had a clueless kid throwing out universes at the void which was an in story explanation for multiversal restoration... you can't get lower than that already.

The o5 are from 616.

They tried to make a good justification when the old scott disappeared when young scott died.

The writers just forgot to make archangel cosmic powered cos teen angel is cosmic now.

Or, the timeline was already broken when angel turned cosmic so archangel didnt turn cosmic too.

I just don't understand why the gods or roma let beast break the timeline.

@darthphoenix: Any explanation from that point toward would be speculation. This the kind where the fans have to fill in the missing pieces, and not the good kind that is purposeful. It is the type that is lazy.

@hopesummersforthefuture:

That could just be bad writing in regards to Battle of the Arom.

As others said it's just bad writing.

However, I recall reading in an interview that the upcoming X-men Blue series will also deal with the ramifications of them being in the present. So they're gonna go back to that... despite the fact that the timeline SHOULDN'T have any issues due to the diverting timeline time travel rule mentioned already.

@raunjisto: As if things aren't complicated enough.

Bad writing. The Scott thing proved they were from the actual past, meaning the multiverse should have been destroyed awhile ago since Jean never returned to make the Phoenix Sagas happen meaning the Mkraan crystal went unchecked the way it did when Legion altered 616 past creating AOA, which resulted in the same thing until the timeline was repaired.

The timeline doesn't matter. The 05 X-Men are still doppelgangers/alternate versions of the originals and need to go away and return to their time. Ever since Young Jean came to 616 she's turned Iceman gay and has become a ruthless forceful psionic. She's not the real Jean and never will be.

Differences between the original Jean Grey and "All New X-Men" Jean Grey

This young version of Jean Grey has some differences with the original Jean Grey.

The original Jean Grey took much longer and a more intensive training with the use of her powers, Charles Xavier decided to block her telepathy when she first displayed that power (concretely, when Annie Richardson died in her arms) waiting for the right moment for her mind to be developed correctly and be able to control it, under his tutelage and training, which happened during the Z'Nox invasion when Xavier shared a part of his power with Jean, awakening her own powers once again.

However the "All New X-men" Jean (we can call her just Lil' Jean) had her powers awakened much earlier than the original Jean, struggling to control her powers initially but showing off a quick improvement over them plus a quite ruthless use of her new-found powers, which is a long departure from the original Jean; in example, the original Jean would rarely use her powers to coerce others to do her will unless extreme circunstances and not having another choice meanwhile "Lil'Jean" is more than willing to use her powers to "convince" others to obey her, as seen recently when she force "Lil'Angel" to forget about going back in time and stay at the Jean Grey School "happily".

Also the original Jean has been very cautious about using her powers to "read" others, doing her best to control her powers and avoid such a thing happening meanwhile "Lil'Jean" is doing this kind of "feats" all the time.

As seen during "Battle of the Atom" storyline "Lil'Jean" will become somehow a twisted and sort-of evil version of the original Jean Grey in the future.

I wish they'd go back to their time and the focus can return to their adult counterparts. That, and continue developing existing teenage mutants.

@igeptx: Wish all you like. They're staying. T.T

@pyrofn: They'll be sent back when editorial no longer finds them lucrative.

The 05 X-Men are definitive proof of Marvel's lack of creativity. Having to turn to time travel, alternate timelines or dimensions is what someone does when they can't find a plausible solution to the problematic corner they've put themselves in.

They're only relevant because they've been brought into Earth 616 continuity even if they are doppelgangers or in this case alternate timeline versions of the originals. The 05 are completely mixed in the sense that half of its people like it and the other doesn't. Clones, doppelgangers and all those types of characters don't have staying power and they will eventually return to their own time, hopefully sooner than later or otherwise their future will be that of the one shown in Battle of the Atom.

Not to mention that each and every one of them is a crapper version of the originals.

Them being from another time will also bring the theme of "timeline break" where their presence in Earth 616 will spell disaster such as the previously mentioned Battle of the Atom. In the long run they can't stay there.

This is dealt with in Prime today.

@earthsmightiest:

I KNEW IT

@earthsmightiest: what happened?

The 05 X-Men are not from the canonical 616 past. They diverged into an alternate timeline. They returned to the past only to find that there they never left, that there was already an X-Men in the past they left. ALTERNATE TIMELINE.

Also, Teen Jeen cockblocked Cyclops yet again. Lets hope she doesn't turn him gay for fear of the Phoenix or something.

@koays: in other words, they can be murdered without consequence. that's the only plus side.

YES! Exactly. Teen Jeen should get incinerated by the Phoenix and Original Jean come back and helm the Jean Grey solo comic.

OK, now the hate for the O5 is getting ridiculous now. At this point, they are no longer counted as a part of the 616 characters but as their own. I don't see any reason why to keep hating on them, let alone acknowledge their existence, apart from 'Jeen' whom is gonna become Phoenix quite soon.

Also, the comment about Jean cockblocking...funny, but unlikely. This ain't Bendis writing, she can now do whatever the heck she wants because their is no consequence to her actions with the confirmation that they are not the original 5 but an alternate O5.

Needless to say, I myself have come to the realization that my bitterness was more towards the fact that they were saying she was our Jean but younger. I'm glad Hopeless and eryone else that helped him rectified Bendis horrible writing. I am good with ignoring the fact that Battle of the Atom happened, minus Xorn Jean.

@pyrofn:

Sorry pal, but Teen Jeen completely friendzoned and cockblocked and friendzoned without benefits Young Cyclops. Cyclops kissed her and even though they went back and that they were now true alternates, Jeen still refused him because "you know where that path leads".

I like Xorn Jean. I just really like my favorite character become total unhinged badasses with super honest hurtful attitudes and no holds barred. I was bitter towards Teen Jeen because I saw her as an impediment, an obstacle to the return of Original Jean because of the way Marvel works nowadays. If they already have a Jean what's the use for another one even if she is the original. But that's a wrong train of thought, Original Jean is irreplaceable.

@ursaber: That is where I am getting at. Our Jean has "cock-blocked" Scott before. Jean has never been one to let another person dictate who she becomes, but she also was careful as to not ignore their mistakes. "Jeen" seems to be no different.

Old Jean is best Jean, though.

More like Original Jean. Calling her Old Jean feels like Old Man Logan and she certainly isn't that. She's a literal goddess. Would love to see her hang out with some Avengers as well as duke it out with Carol Danvers Binary and Thor (Jane Foster).

I only hope they somehow fix Iceman. Turning him gay the way they did in my opinion made zero sense for the character, I mean at the very least they should have just said he was bi. I have no idea how they'd fix it and I'm sure whatever they do to fix it will be pretty absurd but I'd rather see it fixed then to simply ignore his entire history in favor of "I didn't want to be persecuted for being a mutant and gay."... just came off forced and out of character for an X-Man who's entire existence is to fight for equality. I get at the time those comics were released they were never gonna have Iceman come out as gay but when you have characters with ample history of being in relationships with woman probably not your best character to do that with.

A better recent example was D-Man who was presented as being gay. His sexual escapades were relatively unexplored so changing that did nothing to contradict the character. Plus they still do have the young Iceman so they could just keep him gay if they wanted to do that and revert the older Iceman back and you get best of both worlds.

@Feartheliving: Well they revealed that the teen O5 are from an alternate universe. So they could make adult bisexual, instead of being "full gay".

Which is what they should have done from the start. Then him choosing to not have a relationship with a man makes a bit more sense albeit still not perfect but a lot more believable in my opinion.

Ah that gives real pleasure seeing Bendis "legacy" treated the only way it really deserves:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/29/todays-new-x-men-utterly-contradicts-bendiss-battle-atom/

@adamtrmm: I'm glad that they at least undid that horrible timeline nonsense Bendis started. At least this goes with how timeline has always been present in Marvel. But then the other issue is... the O5 are still here...:

But then this also tells us that the O5 definitely aren't the same as their older counterparts, meaning that just because young Bobby is gay, it doesn't mean that older Bobby has to be. At the very least he can still be bisexual and it'd alleviate Some of the randomness of that reveal.

And am I the only one that sorta likes O5 Beast? I don't find him to be that intolerable. I actually prefer him to current Beast.

@raunjisto:

They should make them the new Exiles. That's the least of the evils imo

It'll be somewhat fine revealing that Bobbi is actually bi. I mean, that won't undo everything that the character was. It still won't be "the average Joe with a power of god" angle that I loved so much, but at the very least he'll be closer to what he was, yeah, I agree.

lol that's hard to not prefer ANY Beast to that guy. That said, sometimes I like characters I dislike. Hm, wrong wording, it's more like I love when there are characters that provide a different angle to the "rights" with their "wrongs" and they couldn't be more wrong on most of their decisions. The little entertainingly miserable disasters lol Beast being the perfect example per se.

@Feartheliving: I won't debate the fact that the way Bendis did it was terrible and unnecessary. As many have pointed out, it was most likely just shock value and was there to leave something behind since he got nowhere in the book.

That said, teen Bobby being alternate doesn't change the fact that both are gay. It is perfectly plausible to assume that the O5's history still follows the 616 canon like What-if stories do up to a certain point. That is evident by not only their outfits, but by the fact that Jean had psychic blocks at the same age that our Jean did. It is also perfectly plausible to believe Bobby was gay the whole time. Closeted men will do whatever they can to fit in, including having many female relationships and acting accordingly te way a straight man does.

It's obvious that some people will continue to defend this asinine change of character as well as the whole garbage idea of the O5 being in the present. I mean for those that wanted it they got their gay character in the alternate Bobby. So now why do we have to throw away 50+ years of continuity and character development to go out of our way to make the real adult Bobby so called gay? While I wouldnt even be a fan at all of it, I could somewhat compromise with adult Bobby maybe being bi or at least curious because of Lil Bobby. But....whatever? I'm glad someone sh@tted on Bendis' self-made continuity and even though it doesn't make sense I'm glad because Bendis disrespects everyone else's work and randomly and arbitrarily changes others developments. Bottom line for me is I just want them gone completely. You want an O5 book fine, give us the real adult O5. But to still be dealing with the 3rd it iteration of this group while much better characters sit on the sidelines is just ridiculous

It doesn't change the fact that they're both gay as of now, but it can. Hence why I said they should fix it. It was obvious Bendis intended to have them be the actual O5 but I'd happily ignore that if it meant fixing the mess that his run caused and the contradictions with Bobby's character. I mean I'd be happy if they said the reason why the younger X-Men were effecting the older X-Men was because something stupid like time radiation that was infecting the main timestream causing aspects to of the doppelgangers being transferred to the older versions, have Beast or someone discover this and put an end to it which let's Bobby revert to his original self with his homosexual urges being a result of the alternate Bobby "rubbing" off on him.

Yes it's stupid, but it at least fixes a stupid retcon. Maybe the new Iceman series will actually make sense of the retcon and make it work better but I have high doubts about that.

@Feartheliving: They are called "closeted men" for a reason. The contradicting characterization alludes to Bobby hiding his feelings, possibly himself as well to make it easier for him. Unless you mean the contradicting characteristics from teen Bobby, in which case, the answer should be obvious. Bendis.

I mean given that he's an X-Man that literally fights for equality and being yourself, has pursued women, and has met and interacted with a number of gay characters. To simply say he didn't want to be gay and a mutant is a terrible excuse given the character and the specific organization he's apart of in my opinion.

It'd turns out that he was all the time under control of gay mind parasite or gay mind manipulator. And then somebody'd say Hail Hydra.

@Feartheliving: Love the time radiation idea. Anything really that fixes that bullsh@t works for me.

@Feartheliving: Ugh... even I wouldn't mind a time radiation idea.