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#1 Edited by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

The real adult Jean Grey is finally returning this month and I'm really glad to see whats in store for her character. I'm curious as to how she will react to everything that has happened, how she will interact with Emma, and how she'll deal with Scott's death.

I'm also curious as to everyone's thoughts on the whole Scott x Emma x Jean ordeal? I'm always a little confused on why some people try to defend Scott and Emma for what they did...

Some people seem to think that the whole psychic affair thing only happened twice because it wasn't actually shown many times and that they never actually had sex... From my interpretation of the comics they definitely had sex (psychic but still) and it was going on for weeks. But I may be mistaken about it.

Could someone post all the instances of their "therapy sessions" in order? I think it was going on for a few issues in different titles , and later in some flashbacks?

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I'm pretty sure what I thought was right.

Also could someone post their interactions from around that time? Starting from when Emma joins the X-men to when they finally become a couple and kiss over Jean's grave. Thoughts?

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#2 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (9276 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321: i want emma and jean to stay away from each other........and if they do meet, have them have one heck of a psychic battle with jean winning of course.........jean should make emma feel her pain and see if emma can survive it

@pyrofn leave it up to some newbie to start this thing every week lol

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#3 Posted by njchrispatrick (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321: It started off as just therapy, and the day Jean found out was they day they were going to have sex for the first time.

As for defending Scott and Emma, I personally remember how Jean and Scott themselves talked about it. Jean's possession by The Phoenix Force and Scott's possession by Apocalypse were both very traumatic experiences for them and, like many couples, they grew apart. That was the whole reason Scott went to Emma--for therapy. Jean was evolving into a god-like being and although Scott could feel their marriage crumbling he felt like Jean was slipping out of his reach. And in the end Jean was the one who pushed him to be with Emma; once she was given an exterior view she just wanted him to be happy.

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And as an extra bit, here's when she edits the universe so Scott stays with Emma.

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However, at the end of the day I still prefer Scott/Jean to Scott/Emma. They're just so iconic. And now that they've both endured so much I could see them getting back together. As long as Jean doesn't jump on the "Blame Scott" bandwagon like those hypocrites Logan and Hank.

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#4 Posted by PyroFN (6164 posts) - - Show Bio

@njchrispatrick: Logan didn’t know the fool situation and neither does Scott. Only Jean knows what she did, so we can’t call Logan hypocrites of the blame Scott bandwagon. Hank on the other hand, I don’t remember him being against Emma and Scott, so I assume you mean Scott’s decisions from AvX onwards, in which I can agree with.

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#5 Posted by njchrispatrick (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: Oh, I actually meant in regards to AvX. Sorry for the confusion. The writers have made Hank so thoroughly unlikable it's just painful to see. When Xavier and Jean come back I really want them to take different sides on the issue. I mean even Storm is blaming Scott? Storm? I thought she of all people would be level-headed enough to get what happened.

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#6 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

Tbh I hope this is way down the priority list for Marvel because in this day and age it just doesn't look good that a recently resurrected woman immediately heads off to find her ex boyfriend and start a fight with the woman who replaced her. And that goes not just for Scott, but for Logan as well... they are not the reason she's come back.

As for the ordeal itself... I kinda see it as a relationship breakdown between Scott and Jean first and foremost, then a complete collapse when Emma manages to get him into her bed. But at the same time, I like to think of them as human beings... they have flaws and they make choices that hurt each other. It's just what we do.

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#7 Posted by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture: Me? I've lurked around ComicVine and other message boards for years (I've just been too lazy to make an account until this year) , but I guess I understand what you mean. I see this debate come up all the time , seen you on quite a few of them too, yeah I mean its an interesting debate , but I understand that some people are a little tired of it seeing as how it happened a while ago... I do wanna see a confrontation between the two though.

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#8 Edited by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@njchrispatrick: Ahh ok, seems like you are one of those who defend Scott and Emma and thats fine, personally I actually like them together better than Jott but I just feel like what they did to Jean was pretty bad and inexcusable... So maybe it started off as therapy, but Scott knew what Emma was after, would you go and meet in secret with a woman who tried to get you to have an affair with her?

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I mean just look at her expression... Where did Scott think this was gonna go?!? I understand Scott and Jean were having troubles but that's why you talk it out as a couple right? Jean wanted to get close with Scott after everything, Scott pushed her away and turned to Emma, that was his choice.

Also you really think the time Jean caught them was gonna be their first time having sex? I've always interpreted the panel of them making out naked was them having sex and its implied that it wasn't only those two times... Of course the comic book isn't going to show every single time/detail so from what I and most people seem to think is that it was going on for a while...

I've also always interpreted the whole scene of her telling Scott to live as not necessarily altering reality so Scott moves on with Emma, but rather erasing the guilt he had for everything that happened.

Thanks for the scans, I don't really like Scott and Jean together tbh. I feel like the whole "they are an iconic couple, destined to be together, perfect mutant couple , etc..." was a bit old and tired, which is why Scott told Emma he didn't wanna be that kind of "old superhero" anymore and wanted to move on with Emma. In the end he chose Emma over Jean so I'm not sure why people still ship Jott...

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#9 Posted by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

Wanted to ask everyone:

Were these scans all the instances of the affair that was shown? I always read on message boards that there is a scene where Scott is in "sex therapy" with Emma and he talks about how Jean "ran around in a corset for everyone and I get buttoned up sweaters" , but I can never find any instance of this in the comics...

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#10 Posted by njchrispatrick (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321: On a side note, that is one of the weirdest bits of art I've ever seen in a Marvel comic book. Emma looks so horrifying.

Anyway, I think a lot of it does come down to them just being people with flaws. Jean made out with Logan several issues before Scott and Emma got intimate. Scott, bless his heart, is a bit naive, and although he might've lusted after Emma I think he was just too blind to see where this was heading until it was there. He kinda has this thing about letting powerful women lead him around like a puppy dog.

The first therapy session is from New X-Men #128.

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#11 Posted by PyroFN (6164 posts) - - Show Bio

@njchrispatrick: I think it had more to do with Scott’s actions after AvX and what picture it painted for mutants rather than the act itself in Storms case. Beast on the other hand was Bobby levels of unreasonableness and ridiculous.

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#12 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (9276 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn said:

@njchrispatrick: Logan didn’t know the fool situation and neither does Scott. Only Jean knows what she did, so we can’t call Logan hypocrites of the blame Scott bandwagon. Hank on the other hand, I don’t remember him being against Emma and Scott, so I assume you mean Scott’s decisions from AvX onwards, in which I can agree with.

well ok first when jean caught emma and scott i the garden it was in emma's head not in real.........what i got from it is scott wasnt man enough to let go of jean so he made himself look like a bad person ie affair...........jean told logan "i had to let him go because of what loves says" meaning :if u love someone set them free if they come back its meant to be".........so that is why the door is stil open for jean and scott.......jean and scott will always care for each other....... especially with emma being a villain again and might get killed off being written into a corner

team jott

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#13 Posted by njchrispatrick (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: I can't tell if it has to do with the Inhumans push or not but the writers have been positively massacring the X-Men's characters.

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#14 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (9276 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321 said:

Wanted to ask everyone:

Were these scans all the instances of the affair that was shown? I always read on message boards that there is a scene where Scott is in "sex therapy" with Emma and he talks about how Jean "ran around in a corset for everyone and I get buttoned up sweaters" , but I can never find any instance of this in the comics...

i found that weird too........jean is more free and sexy when scott isnt around yet dresses like his mother would dress when hes around ...........idk marvel

oh did u hear in phoenix ressurection they are going to bring up jean pushing scott to emma LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL emma's going to have a 5th breakdown thanks to jean

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#15 Posted by Koays (11242 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321: On a side note, that is one of the weirdest bits of art I've ever seen in a Marvel comic book. Emma looks so horrifying.

Anyway, I think a lot of it does come down to them just being people with flaws. Jean made out with Logan several issues before Scott and Emma got intimate. Scott, bless his heart, is a bit naive, and although he might've lusted after Emma I think he was just too blind to see where this was heading until it was there. He kinda has this thing about letting powerful women lead him around like a puppy dog.

The first therapy session is from New X-Men #128.

Yea you see your summation of events while accurate, leads you to the point that they are all flawed individuals and Scott's flaw was his naivete and weakness. The problem is that the reason for the therapy, hell the reason for all the tensions in Scott and Jeans relation leading up to the Logan kiss, is and was the fact that Scott was suffering from PTSD following months of possession by and mentally struggling with Apocalypses psyche. The word naive implies a lack of comprehension of the results, with Scott it was more of a combination of willful ignorance and vulnerability that lead him to make those choices. He's less accountable for his actions then say Jean making out with Logan, but more vindictive in his actions as he passively had resentment toward Jean not being what he needed her to be at that point.

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#16 Edited by njchrispatrick (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: I don't consider naivete his main flaw, just the one which kept him from seeing where the path was leading until it got there. His stuff with Apocalypse is a whole other bag of worms and tied more closely to his relationship with Jean than Emma. His ordeal with Apocalypse pushed him away from Jean and his longing for understanding sent him hurtling towards Emma. Scott's by far one of my favorite X-Men, but he definitely struggles at times to work past his emotions largely because he doesn't know how to feel them.

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#17 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (9276 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays said:
@njchrispatrick said:

@iamre321: On a side note, that is one of the weirdest bits of art I've ever seen in a Marvel comic book. Emma looks so horrifying.

Anyway, I think a lot of it does come down to them just being people with flaws. Jean made out with Logan several issues before Scott and Emma got intimate. Scott, bless his heart, is a bit naive, and although he might've lusted after Emma I think he was just too blind to see where this was heading until it was there. He kinda has this thing about letting powerful women lead him around like a puppy dog.

The first therapy session is from New X-Men #128.

Yea you see your summation of events while accurate, leads you to the point that they are all flawed individuals and Scott's flaw was his naivete and weakness. The problem is that the reason for the therapy, hell the reason for all the tensions in Scott and Jeans relation leading up to the Logan kiss, is and was the fact that Scott was suffering from PTSD following months of possession by and mentally struggling with Apocalypses psyche. The word naive implies a lack of comprehension of the results, with Scott it was more of a combination of willful ignorance and vulnerability that lead him to make those choices. He's less accountable for his actions then say Jean making out with Logan, but more vindictive in his actions as he passively had resentment toward Jean not being what he needed her to be at that point.

really??? to me scott seemed like he was "afraid of his wife finding out what kind of real/changed person he was going through" ........them some writer suggested jean was his puppy love while emma was his "real adult with flaws" love.........also to me at least scott didnt want to be with jean but he didnt have the guts to tell her he was leaving her

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#18 Posted by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@njchrispatrick: Haha yeah, that's true they should be careful with which artists they pick... I think she's supposed to come off as seductive and mischievous maybe but just ends up looking kinda demented...

I kinda agree with @koays and @hopesummersforthefuture in that it was a combination of willful ignorance and vulnerability and also because he wasn't man enough to break it off completely with Jean.

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#19 Posted by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@njchrispatrick/ @pyrofn :Yes Marvel hasn't been treating the X-men characters great and they've had to deal with a lot. Though I've always felt Scott and his team could've handled some things differently, I mean Storm and Iceman are both long time friends to Cyke and pretty understanding so if you pissed them off you've probably really fucked up tbh...

@outside_85 : I agree, Jean and Emma as well are more than just their relationships. And yeah I don't think Jean was ever shown to be that petty, though I do think a confrontation is inevitable. And yeah I agree they are "human" and make mistakes just like everyone else. Though I'm not a huge fan of the people who basically say what Scott/Emma did was justified because of the whole Jean/Logan thing...

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#20 Posted by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio
@iamre321 said:

Wanted to ask everyone:

Were these scans all the instances of the affair that was shown? I always read on message boards that there is a scene where Scott is in "sex therapy" with Emma and he talks about how Jean "ran around in a corset for everyone and I get buttoned up sweaters" , but I can never find any instance of this in the comics...

i found that weird too........jean is more free and sexy when scott isnt around yet dresses like his mother would dress when hes around ...........idk marvel

oh did u hear in phoenix ressurection they are going to bring up jean pushing scott to emma LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL emma's going to have a 5th breakdown thanks to jean

I don't remember anything like that happening in the comics?.. I also don't remember any scene where that is stated by him in therapy, not sure if that is a real quote from the comics or not...

Hmm... that'll be interesting , though I've never interpreted it as Jean pushing Scott to Emma, seeing as how he chose Emma all along, He liked Emma without her influence, Her influence just made it easier for him to get over the guilt about leaving her.

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#21 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (9276 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321 said:
@hopesummersforthefuture said:
@iamre321 said:

Wanted to ask everyone:

Were these scans all the instances of the affair that was shown? I always read on message boards that there is a scene where Scott is in "sex therapy" with Emma and he talks about how Jean "ran around in a corset for everyone and I get buttoned up sweaters" , but I can never find any instance of this in the comics...

i found that weird too........jean is more free and sexy when scott isnt around yet dresses like his mother would dress when hes around ...........idk marvel

oh did u hear in phoenix ressurection they are going to bring up jean pushing scott to emma LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL emma's going to have a 5th breakdown thanks to jean

I don't remember anything like that happening in the comics?.. I also don't remember any scene where that is stated by him in therapy, not sure if that is a real quote from the comics or not...

Hmm... that'll be interesting , though I've never interpreted it as Jean pushing Scott to Emma, seeing as how he chose Emma all along, He liked Emma without her influence, Her influence just made it easier for him to get over the guilt about leaving her.

in "here comes tomorrow" .....scott gaves in to loneliness and self-doubt by walking away from emma and the x-men .........jean had to push his self doubt away and i guess choose to be with emma........it must be important if Rosenberg(writer of phoenix ressurection) is bringing it up........

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#22 Posted by PyroFN (6164 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture: Hun, Scott didn’t come back, not until way after Endsong. He chose Emma and would’ve chose Emma if Jean were still living. Jean had to move on in Endsong. The door doesn’t stay open forever.

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#23 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (9276 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn said:

@hopesummersforthefuture: Hun, Scott didn’t come back, not until way after Endsong. He chose Emma and would’ve chose Emma if Jean were still living. Jean had to move on in Endsong. The door doesn’t stay open forever.

lol really? i heard endsong isnt canon

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#24 Posted by PyroFN (6164 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture: You heard from an unreliable source. Referenced in X-Men: Gold #15 where teen Jean looks at the history of her Future-selfs past on the monitors of Mojos HQ. left monitor, you see the seen of Logan stabbing Dark Phoenix.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3iEAxFkj-xc/WgMo-ry7B8I/AAAAAAAADCk/jiRvB7Z7rWgAHMdKz3oaRpmPMkJp9JhuQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO020.jpg

Here is the scan showing what the monitor was showing.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111190903/4312634-endsong3-3.jpg

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#25 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (9276 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: can we just get at least one confident woman back.........when jean comes back :D

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#26 Posted by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

Tbh I hope this is way down the priority list for Marvel because in this day and age it just doesn't look good that a recently resurrected woman immediately heads off to find her ex boyfriend and start a fight with the woman who replaced her. And that goes not just for Scott, but for Logan as well... they are not the reason she's come back.

As for the ordeal itself... I kinda see it as a relationship breakdown between Scott and Jean first and foremost, then a complete collapse when Emma manages to get him into her bed. But at the same time, I like to think of them as human beings... they have flaws and they make choices that hurt each other. It's just what we do.

My thoughts are similar. I do like Jean and Scott together, but plausibly, Jean gets resurrected only to be shipped into a relationship would be a horrible thing to do. Scott is dead, Logan may be newly resurrected but its a bad idea. Jean has just come back after a decade long hiatus and she needs to get her bearings and create a new purpose for herself now that she's come back. Only after this lengthy process can the writer delve back into romance. Should it be Scott again which I am pro towards, they would need to bring up all their history together, every facet of their relationship needs to come forward in order for them to find a way to move on together.

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#27 Posted by PyroFN (6164 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture: “can we just get at least one confident woman back.........when jean comes back”

Bruh. Jean is that confident woman.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/97919/1965345-juann06.jpg

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#28 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@ursaber said:
@outside_85 said:

Tbh I hope this is way down the priority list for Marvel because in this day and age it just doesn't look good that a recently resurrected woman immediately heads off to find her ex boyfriend and start a fight with the woman who replaced her. And that goes not just for Scott, but for Logan as well... they are not the reason she's come back.

As for the ordeal itself... I kinda see it as a relationship breakdown between Scott and Jean first and foremost, then a complete collapse when Emma manages to get him into her bed. But at the same time, I like to think of them as human beings... they have flaws and they make choices that hurt each other. It's just what we do.

My thoughts are similar. I do like Jean and Scott together, but plausibly, Jean gets resurrected only to be shipped into a relationship would be a horrible thing to do. Scott is dead, Logan may be newly resurrected but its a bad idea. Jean has just come back after a decade long hiatus and she needs to get her bearings and create a new purpose for herself now that she's come back. Only after this lengthy process can the writer delve back into romance. Should it be Scott again which I am pro towards, they would need to bring up all their history together, every facet of their relationship needs to come forward in order for them to find a way to move on together.

Tbh if Scott was to reappear as we last saw him (in a healthy state that is), I would be all in favor of Jean moving on to some third person. Scott is a changed man from the one she knew, if the Logan that we've seen is the same guy encapsulated in adamantium, he's different as well... not to mention we dont know which sort of head Jean is coming back with. Fair enough that there are a lot of people who want the old classics to return... but with all due respect, I think these kinds of things as golden opportunities to try something new without breaking the world.

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#29 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

I really love Emma, but I think she needs to stay away from Scott and Jean.

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#30 Posted by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Who would you say or like to be that third new man?

As for Scott, death has a habit of changing people to some extent so the Scott that comes back will also be different from when he was last alive and the world he's coming back to, much like Jean at the moment with her ressurrection, is different as well.

Even if they are different, a good writer can make it so that the two can function once again as a couple. And even if it doesn't seem like a good idea in the surface given their entire history, that same history and their changes can be utilized to move them forward.

That's just something I would personally like to see.

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#31 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@ursaber said:

@outside_85: Who would you say or like to be that third new man?

As for Scott, death has a habit of changing people to some extent so the Scott that comes back will also be different from when he was last alive and the world he's coming back to, much like Jean at the moment with her ressurrection, is different as well.

Even if they are different, a good writer can make it so that the two can function once again as a couple. And even if it doesn't seem like a good idea in the surface given their entire history, that same history and their changes can be utilized to move them forward.

That's just something I would personally like to see.

Of the people I can think of, which may outrage certain X-fans... I would actually say Hank, because him and Jean have been close friends for quite a long time, and she was the one who often pulled him out of his holes when stuff like his appearance got to him. Also, despite all the errors he's made over the years, she could likely see what he was trying to do while everyone else just point fingers at him. Aside that I dont have any.

That is true, yet, it doesn't take away that these people will be different from what they were. That said I was thinking that a Jean from the Morrison era pops up and meets the post Schism-Cyke... would she be able to stand that guy?

Also true, everything can work if written properly. The question is really, should they? Like, what does Jean and Scott really bring to the table other than simply being Mr. & Mrs. X-Men? What more is there to do with them at this stage?

And that's fair enough, I am not saying this just to come at you... it's just me that would like to see them move on from that, for now at least unless someone comes in with a really brilliant idea and reason for them to hook up again.

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#32 Posted by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

Of the people I can think of, which may outrage certain X-fans... I would actually say Hank, because him and Jean have been close friends for quite a long time, and she was the one who often pulled him out of his holes when stuff like his appearance got to him. Also, despite all the errors he's made over the years, she could likely see what he was trying to do while everyone else just point fingers at him. Aside that I dont have any.

That is true, yet, it doesn't take away that these people will be different from what they were. That said I was thinking that a Jean from the Morrison era pops up and meets the post Schism-Cyke... would she be able to stand that guy?

Also true, everything can work if written properly. The question is really, should they? Like, what does Jean and Scott really bring to the table other than simply being Mr. & Mrs. X-Men? What more is there to do with them at this stage?

And that's fair enough, I am not saying this just to come at you... it's just me that would like to see them move on from that, for now at least unless someone comes in with a really brilliant idea and reason for them to hook up again.

Actually there are many in these forums that have suggested the Hank matchup so you're not alone with that. I personally don't like Beast these days however.

I think Jean could stand Scott as he was then and as he was before he died. She herself has also fallen into darkness and made some seriously edgy stuff both as herself and Phoenix. She's not without her own skeletons in her closet and neither is Cyke. People will always change and develop and become different. I am not the same as I was yesterday because I was a different person then and that can apply to these two as well, and the X-Men. Yet at the same time there are parts of them that remain unchanged and familiar.

Should they, should they not. That is the major question right there. IDK if they should or how they would but I want to see this because I didn't like the way things ended between them and felt they could've been able to prevail as a couple. What they bring to the table would be up to the writer to decide but there is hardly anything new or refreshing that can reinvigorate the X-Men one way or another.

And I totally get your POV. Wanting to see them move on. They already have BTW but I think your meaning is that they shouldn't try this again, lest they find themselves rehashing the same old thing again. Jott is something I want to see again and you'd like to see them move on from that. Both perfectly reasonable and valid things to want.

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#33 Posted by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: I can't tell if it has to do with the Inhumans push or not but the writers have been positively massacring the X-Men's characters.

Trust me pal, no matter how much flak Marvel gives the X-Men, nothing can be a worse hit to thee Inhumans than that godawful ABC series of the Inhumans.

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#34 Edited by njchrispatrick (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@ursaber: That's so true. I like the concept of the Inhumans but they work so much better as their isolated structure. None of their modern takes have clicked, and the only Inhumans who have worked are Inhumans in name only. Aside from the crappy directing the Inhumans show felt like it was trying to involve them with the world too much.

That's actually a confusing part if the X-Men join the MCU. How will they explain these two groups coexisting? And what about how Inhumans have been filling the x-men void?

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#35 Posted by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

I really love Emma, but I think she needs to stay away from Scott and Jean.

It would certainly improve her health and keep her from psychic breakdowns.

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#36 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@ursaber said:

Actually there are many in these forums that have suggested the Hank matchup so you're not alone with that. I personally don't like Beast these days however.

I think Jean could stand Scott as he was then and as he was before he died. She herself has also fallen into darkness and made some seriously edgy stuff both as herself and Phoenix. She's not without her own skeletons in her closet and neither is Cyke. People will always change and develop and become different. I am not the same as I was yesterday because I was a different person then and that can apply to these two as well, and the X-Men. Yet at the same time there are parts of them that remain unchanged and familiar.

Should they, should they not. That is the major question right there. IDK if they should or how they would but I want to see this because I didn't like the way things ended between them and felt they could've been able to prevail as a couple. What they bring to the table would be up to the writer to decide but there is hardly anything new or refreshing that can reinvigorate the X-Men one way or another.

And I totally get your POV. Wanting to see them move on. They already have BTW but I think your meaning is that they shouldn't try this again, lest they find themselves rehashing the same old thing again. Jott is something I want to see again and you'd like to see them move on from that. Both perfectly reasonable and valid things to want.

True, I know a lot of people dont like Hank as he is now for one reason or another, and I have seen a few posters expressing their hope someone in one of these many events would have made him into a bathroom carpet for it.

Thats fair, but I still question if they can tolerate their various skeletons. Like is Jean going to be OK with Scott's involvement with the X-Force, is she going to come down on his side of the fence or Logans in regards to training the kids to be soldiers... and is Scott just going to let her question his decisions when he's been mostly 'put up or shut up' about these things in the past? Heck, is she going to be all that pleased to learn Scott welcomed Magneto into their midst with open arms?

All of that is true. And the question remains... where would they go from here?

Well Scott has in any case, he moved on with Emma. We don't know if Jean has... not sure the phantom YJean has been seeing is the one coming back. But yes, it's the fear of them just returning for the sake of it and not doing anything new with it that's my concern, but this is a general thing for me in terms of fictional couples like this... you shouldn't pair them unless you actually intend to do something with it.

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#37 Posted by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

@ursaber: That's so true. I like the concept of the Inhumans but they work so much better as their isolated structure. None of their modern takes have clicked, and the only Inhumans who have worked are Inhumans in name only. Aside from the crappy directing the Inhumans show felt like it was trying to involve them with the world too much.

That's actually a confusing part if the X-Men join the MCU. How will they explain these two groups coexisting? And what about how Inhumans have been filling the x-men void?

Likewise on the Inhumans concept. I read the 1998 limited series and they were so cool and wiered and unique but now that Marvel is pushing them mainstream they've become so dull and boring and bad. I like kings and royal families and superpowers so seeing all that together was epic.

As for the X-Men in the MCU, I think it will have to be a reality altering event like Secret Wars to include them. Neither the X-Men nor F4 can be plausibly inserted into the rich history of the MCU without altering reality to accomidate the two groups as though they've always existed.

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#38 Posted by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

True, I know a lot of people dont like Hank as he is now for one reason or another, and I have seen a few posters expressing their hope someone in one of these many events would have made him into a bathroom carpet for it.

Thats fair, but I still question if they can tolerate their various skeletons. Like is Jean going to be OK with Scott's involvement with the X-Force, is she going to come down on his side of the fence or Logans in regards to training the kids to be soldiers... and is Scott just going to let her question his decisions when he's been mostly 'put up or shut up' about these things in the past? Heck, is she going to be all that pleased to learn Scott welcomed Magneto into their midst with open arms?

All of that is true. And the question remains... where would they go from here?

Well Scott has in any case, he moved on with Emma. We don't know if Jean has... not sure the phantom YJean has been seeing is the one coming back. But yes, it's the fear of them just returning for the sake of it and not doing anything new with it that's my concern, but this is a general thing for me in terms of fictional couples like this... you shouldn't pair them unless you actually intend to do something with it.

If their skeletons come to be explored again, I think Jean would try to understand Scott's mentality, the why of things, of why he did all that stuff. Scott had some good justifications and merits for his decisions but far from being comoletely acceptable and he suffered because of his hardline approach and extremism. Most of that is pretty irrelevant now given how different things are. Neither Scott or Logan have the X-Men divided between them and I don't think they're coming back to lead teams (Scott isn't coming back at all for the time being). The X-Men as a whole have worked with Magneto multiple times in their history. Hell Mags has currently been training and guiding the young x-men and alternate jean. The one thing Scott did that Jean would find unforgivable is killing Professor X, yet that is even becoming irrelevant with Xavier's return in Fantomex's body. And because of Scott being under the influence of Phoenix when he did this, Jean could not bring her wroth upon Scott because she knows better than anyone the enormity of the Phoenix.

IDK where would they go with another shot at Jott but I hope to seem them come up with a good path. I myself will have to delve more into this.

Scott moved on with Emma but after AvX they've had a rocky relationship and currently there's nothing going on anymore given Scott's deceased status. Ghost Jean has only been seeing Teen Jean in preparation for her resurrection.

And the thing about doing something with them applies to just about every story path justification. Everything the writers do with these characters should be to do something productive with them. What is next.

That's why I advocate that the possibility of another shot at Jott would have to be handled with the utmost care and take its time. It needs to take all their history together as friends and lovers into account, their pros and cons, and from thay history find a way to move forward together in a better direction.

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#39 Posted by njchrispatrick (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@ursaber: One thing I loved about the Inhumans was that they were weird. Their abilities were less about powers and more about genetic uniqueness to the point of being monstrous at times. It was a far cry from the X-Men where their powers were just powers. But now like 90% of Inhumans are exactly like mutants.

Fantastic Four could I think, but yea X-Men just has too much, especially for the details which have been altered.

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#40 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (9276 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn said:

@hopesummersforthefuture: “can we just get at least one confident woman back.........when jean comes back”

Bruh. Jean is that confident woman.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/97919/1965345-juann06.jpg

u know im a girl right? lol

finally something we agree on!!!!! this waiting for PH(phoenix resurrection) and x-men red is driving me nuts lol and i think PH will be slow paced with the first one being the most boring est

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#41 Posted by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoaa alot has been said lol I'm gonna try to reply to all the points. One thing first though- I'm not a huge fan of time travel, other timelines , etc... It was nice to see the original X-men appear but I really do hope they go back to their own timeline and we can return to focusing on adult jean, scott, hank, etc...

@outside_85 / @ursaber : "Mr. & Mrs. X-men" hahaha, well said. I agree with what you guys said, Jott is still possible but they would both have to really address their history and changes in each other. Scott , especially after hooking up with Emma, has become a pretty ruthless leader. Jean has always been very kind and understanding especially to Scott, but idk if she would even be able to still love Scott the way he is now. Scott has been with many different women while Jean has only been with Scott (I guess occasional flirting with logan). I think they could make Jott work , question is should they? A lot of people still ship it and they are always referred to as like soul mates and such , but idk...

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#42 Posted by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 / @ursaber :

To me personally the Scott/Jean relationship got pretty dull, then later the Scott / Emma relationship got dull as well (ironic how the most interesting part of their relationship was , to me at least, during their affair) . If Scott ever comes back do you guys think maybe he would try a third option like Psylocke or Magik (they did get pretty close in new x-men) or someone else?

Also general question to everyone: Do you guys think that with all the liberal PC stuff going on lately, do you think Marvel would ever do a Jean x Emma couple? I mean I've always sensed a lot of sexual tension between the two and honestly think they would complement each other and maybe even be a better couple than when they were with Scott...

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#43 Posted by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn said:

@hopesummersforthefuture: “can we just get at least one confident woman back.........when jean comes back”

Bruh. Jean is that confident woman.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/97919/1965345-juann06.jpg

Whoa nice, makes me like Jean even more, where's this panel from?

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#44 Edited by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321 said:

@outside_85 / @ursaber : "Mr. & Mrs. X-men" hahaha, well said. I agree with what you guys said, Jott is still possible but they would both have to really address their history and changes in each other. Scott , especially after hooking up with Emma, has become a pretty ruthless leader. Jean has always been very kind and understanding especially to Scott, but idk if she would even be able to still love Scott the way he is now. Scott has been with many different women while Jean has only been with Scott (I guess occasional flirting with logan). I think they could make Jott work , question is should they? A lot of people still ship it and they are always referred to as like soul mates and such , but idk...

It depends, it always depends on HOW its done rather than should it be done.

The range of couples who were together, separated, seen other people and have gotten back together does exist though I believe it to be a minority but its there. Two characters such as Jean and Scott with that massive history will have a hard time ever fully moving from each other. They are instrinsically connected, not just because of their psychic rapport but because that's how they fundamentally feel for one another, a primordial attraction. Said attraction is still no such defense for moving on or growing apart, but no matter what they will always care and have feelings for one another no matter what.

Neither Jean and Scott are without their bad sides. Jean has done some nasty stuff with her psychic powers and has destroyed a star system as Phoenix killing billions even if she was under the influence of the Phoenix. Scott became much more serious and took on a hard line extremist approach to his goals of mutant prosperity which led him down the path of the anti hero and anti villain. Jean has also been with others but they're hardly notable.

And its completely alright to not agree with the two getting back together as it can also be seen as regressive and its completely valid and true.

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#45 Posted by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321 said:

@outside_85 / @ursaber :

To me personally the Scott/Jean relationship got pretty dull, then later the Scott / Emma relationship got dull as well (ironic how the most interesting part of their relationship was , to me at least, during their affair) . If Scott ever comes back do you guys think maybe he would try a third option like Psylocke or Magik (they did get pretty close in new x-men) or someone else?

Also general question to everyone: Do you guys think that with all the liberal PC stuff going on lately, do you think Marvel would ever do a Jean x Emma couple? I mean I've always sensed a lot of sexual tension between the two and honestly think they would complement each other and maybe even be a better couple than when they were with Scott...

A lot of things get dull when it goes on for so long. The only romantic superhero couple that has never dulled to me was Spider Man and Mary Jane.

I feel that after Jean died and Scott and Emma got together, that Emma became Cyclops' personal cheerleader and her whole sense of self was attached to him. Ergo the process of dulling. To me at least.

If Scott ever comes back, which I hope he does next year or after, he needs to come back different, he needs to NOT be a team leader, he needs to NOT be in a relationship so soon after resurrection, and I think his purpose searching should be attached to his powers. Mainly the one great change I want to place upon Cyclops is that he has control of his powers and has no need for his visor. That would be a supremely interesting thing to explore for him.

No, I do not like at all all this political correctness, lbtq, sjw atmosphere that has plagued Marvel Comics. The Jean and Emma pairing would be like anime fan service if I am being honest.

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#46 Posted by PyroFN (6164 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture: 1) I don’t assume people’s genders, nor would I want to tell people my own for keeping anonymous so it wouldn’t be right to ask others. I just say that I’m a ditto. :D

2) Your thoughts on Jeans confidence was what I was surprised at when it came to you asking for a confident woman question on Jeans team or something like that.

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#47 Edited by PyroFN (6164 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321: I forget. I got it from @lordofallhumans profile. Lord, where’s it from?

It is a scan showing Jean unleashing her telekinesis on Cable and Rachel for making her feel guilty about not being a mother to either of them.

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#48 Edited by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@ursaber said:
@iamre321 said:

@outside_85 / @ursaber :

To me personally the Scott/Jean relationship got pretty dull, then later the Scott / Emma relationship got dull as well (ironic how the most interesting part of their relationship was , to me at least, during their affair) . If Scott ever comes back do you guys think maybe he would try a third option like Psylocke or Magik (they did get pretty close in new x-men) or someone else?

Also general question to everyone: Do you guys think that with all the liberal PC stuff going on lately, do you think Marvel would ever do a Jean x Emma couple? I mean I've always sensed a lot of sexual tension between the two and honestly think they would complement each other and maybe even be a better couple than when they were with Scott...

A lot of things get dull when it goes on for so long. The only romantic superhero couple that has never dulled to me was Spider Man and Mary Jane.

I feel that after Jean died and Scott and Emma got together, that Emma became Cyclops' personal cheerleader and her whole sense of self was attached to him. Ergo the process of dulling. To me at least.

If Scott ever comes back, which I hope he does next year or after, he needs to come back different, he needs to NOT be a team leader, he needs to NOT be in a relationship so soon after resurrection, and I think his purpose searching should be attached to his powers. Mainly the one great change I want to place upon Cyclops is that he has control of his powers and has no need for his visor. That would be a supremely interesting thing to explore for him.

No, I do not like at all all this political correctness, lbtq, sjw atmosphere that has plagued Marvel Comics. The Jean and Emma pairing would be like anime fan service if I am being honest.

Maybe but sex sells, why do you think all the super heroines have perfect bodies and wear skin tight outfits? X-men especially always had a lot of sexual things / fan service. I don't really like the whole sjw atmosphere either, but Jean x Emma kinda makes sense to me; they have a lot in common, could learn a lot from each other, their personalities would be complementary, and they just need to kiss and make up lol...

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#49 Posted by ursaber (9971 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamre321 said:

Maybe but sex sells, why do you think all the super heroines have perfect bodies and wear skin tight outfits? X-men especially always had a lot of sexual things / fan service. I don't really like the whole sjw atmosphere either, but Jean x Emma kinda makes sense to me; they have a lot in common, could learn a lot from each other, their personalities would be complementary, and they just need to kiss and make up lol...

The sex stuff, Marvel recently has been avoiding that in general, being so explicit. Rogue used to be such a looker and now she wears that hipster peace loving hoodie and everyone is just so blah. Even Emma's not as voluptuous as she used to be.

And yeah, that's the point of fan service, making women extremely sexy not just in looks but in wardobe, hell even relationships and the allusion to those concepts.

Jean and Emma, maybe, if they did not hate/despise each other to the core. If Scott were still around and he'd pissed them both off simultaneously, they would join forces against him, have cocktails later and then a hotel room. But that is not to be. And seriously, Jean and Emma is a massive fanboy fantasy and it would take an incredible writer to make that a reality without making it seem like pure fan service. The only major lesbian character I notice with Marvel Comics these days is that godawful America Chavez. GODAWFUL!

But in the meantime just go see some Jean x Emma fan art.

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#50 Posted by iamre321 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@ursaber said:
@iamre321 said:

Maybe but sex sells, why do you think all the super heroines have perfect bodies and wear skin tight outfits? X-men especially always had a lot of sexual things / fan service. I don't really like the whole sjw atmosphere either, but Jean x Emma kinda makes sense to me; they have a lot in common, could learn a lot from each other, their personalities would be complementary, and they just need to kiss and make up lol...

The sex stuff, Marvel recently has been avoiding that in general, being so explicit. Rogue used to be such a looker and now she wears that hipster peace loving hoodie and everyone is just so blah. Even Emma's not as voluptuous as she used to be.

And yeah, that's the point of fan service, making women extremely sexy not just in looks but in wardobe, hell even relationships and the allusion to those concepts.

Jean and Emma, maybe, if they did not hate/despise each other to the core. If Scott were still around and he'd pissed them both off simultaneously, they would join forces against him, have cocktails later and then a hotel room. But that is not to be. And seriously, Jean and Emma is a massive fanboy fantasy and it would take an incredible writer to make that a reality without making it seem like pure fan service. The only major lesbian character I notice with Marvel Comics these days is that godawful America Chavez. GODAWFUL!

But in the meantime just go see some Jean x Emma fan art.

Really? I haven't noticed any changes in Emma?... Also yeah they do despise each other don't they? lol... "If Scott were still around and he'd pissed them both off simultaneously, they would join forces against him, have cocktails later and then a hotel room." - I wanna see this sooo badly... I guess it kinda is the ultimate fanboy fantasy, but I mean if current Emma and Young Jean can be friends then that at least gives me a little hope lol... they really need to just sit down and have a heart to heart without Emma being mean and with Jean being calm lol. Yeah there's already plenty of Jean x Emma fan art/ fanfiction ( I think there's more of that then Jott or Scemma) but if they can make it canon i'd be sooo happy lol. I agree it'd take an incredible writer but I think they could make it work...