Poll Jean Grey or Rachel Summers (54 votes)
Who do you like more?
Who do you like more?
Unfortunately, I don't think Rachel is quite as relevant in the current state of the world. Hopefully someone explores her as a character, but the PF concept just tends to destroy any character it touches.
Jean all day ery day , Rachel may have come into her own but at the end of the day she started off as the poor mans Jean Grey, and ain't nothing like the real thing baby!
Unfortunately, I don't think Rachel is quite as relevant in the current state of the world. Hopefully someone explores her as a character, but the PF concept just tends to destroy any character it touches.
I agree with you. Rachel has not been consistently interesting since the 80's, but neither has Jean. She has had more great moments since the 80's, though. If you take alternate realities into account(like AoA, Ultimate, and possibly the O5) Jean has definitely been more interesting.
They're kind of equal to me. The main reason I voted Rachel is because I kind of expect this to turn one sided in Jean's favor.
Rachel. The age of Jean ended long ago.
So I guess you haven't been reading anything that has her everywhere and Rachel once again pushed aside because there is a Jean Grey in existence? Jean has been talked about constantly and teased since Planet X, even in death she was more popular than Rachel and most X-Women, so the age of Jean never ended, while the age of Rachel never even started, even Emma was pushed harder than her.
Voted for Rachel.
She has the most interesting history/story among the x-men. At least for me.
She has Jean's powers and attitude.
She is living and concerned with her teammates/ (spare heart of the x-men) hot tempered like jean too.
She is very creative with the use of her powers.
She is also a good leader/tactician just like jean and Scott
Voted for Rachel.
She has the most interesting history/story among the x-men. At least for me.
She has Jean's powers and attitude.
She is living and concerned with her teammates/ (spare heart of the x-men) hot tempered like jean too.
She is very creative with the use of her powers.
She is also a good leader/tactician just like jean and Scott
Just a question and observation, not a criticism. You basically voted for Rachel for being a Jean Grey replica? IJS, you took attributes of Jean's and applied them to Rachel.
@lordofallhumans: actually, I love Jean but love Rachel more because she is more interesting than jean. Her character is well thought of that she can be a substitute for jean in her absence.
@lordofallhumans: actually, I love Jean but love Rachel more because she is more interesting than jean. Her character is well thought of that she can be a substitute for jean in her absence.
It's cool I was just asking and I have never actually thought she was that well thought out and basically her entire character has been based on trying unapologetically to be a Jean Grey derivative that is always sad about not being with a Jean she never spent much time on panel with in the first place and kind of falling short. They could never successfully separate her from Phoenix or Jean enough for her to really become an important enough character which is why they banished her to the end of time after the Phoenix left her and Jean returned. She has great potential to be her own character but every chance they got they either tied her to the Phoenix or Jean to the point of having identical powers (as it seems they have completely forgotten her actual mutant ability of chronoskimming in favor of her inherited ones of telepathy and telekinesis) to changing her last name to Grey and her codename to Marvel Girl, when he codename wasn't Phoenix.
@lordofallhumans: actually, I love Jean but love Rachel more because she is more interesting than jean. Her character is well thought of that she can be a substitute for jean in her absence.
It's cool I was just asking and I have never actually thought she was that well thought out and basically her entire character has been based on trying unapologetically to be a Jean Grey derivative that is always sad about not being with a Jean she never spent much time on panel with in the first place and kind of falling short. They could never successfully separate her from Phoenix or Jean enough for her to really become an important enough character which is why they banished her to the end of time after the Phoenix left her and Jean returned. She has great potential to be her own character but every chance they got they either tied her to the Phoenix or Jean to the point of having identical powers (as it seems they have completely forgotten her actual mutant ability of chronoskimming in favor of her inherited ones of telepathy and telekinesis) to changing her last name to Grey and her codename to Marvel Girl, when he codename wasn't Phoenix.
Can totally get where your coming from here....I just feel like as far as character derivatives go, she's got a pretty good standing as a character whose got a solidly fleshed out story inspite of holding on tightly to the characters and concepts that she's spun out of.
And while I don't feel like she is (or should be) completely independent of Jean Grey, her character arc and development since her introduction is her own and is as indepth and intricate as Jean's is, despite Jean being her starting point. She's just a lot more of her own character and story then the shoutouts and connections make it seem when you boil them down to "Phoenix", "Marvel Girl", "Grey/Summmers".
For me Rachel has the best and most interestingly dramatic life story.
Came from a future where love ones got assassinated.
Phoenix boosted her chronoskimming powers to save her,sending her to the alternate dimension's past
Attacked by Selene
Joined the x-men
Took on the Phoenix power as her own
Got stabbed by wolverine
Got imprisoned in mojoworld
Joined Excalibur
Saved the universe by sacrificing her life
Went back to her future to stop the sentinel domination and succeeded
Sacrificed herself to save captain Britain
Was brought to end of time to stop apocalypse's rule
Formed askani clan
Got Cyclops and Jean's psyche transfered to future decendants'bodies, to train cable.
Died and found herself in another
Timeline and was rescued by x-men
Telekinetically made a mini black hole
Went on a space mission.
Became blue Phoenix
Became revenant
Telepathically scanned the planet without cerebro
Took down many of the avengers including thor, captain America, black panther, black widow, iron fist
Took on Xavier Jr and defeated him
@lordofallhumans: I was talking about old Jean. Not young Jean.
@lordofallhumans: I was talking about old Jean. Not young Jean.
So I guess you haven't been reading anything that has her everywhere and Rachel once again pushed aside because there is a Jean Grey in existence? Jean has been talked about constantly and teased since Planet X, even in death she was more popular than Rachel and most X-Women, so the age of Jean never ended, while the age of Rachel never even started, even Emma was pushed harder than her.
I was including her in my point, she is still Jean Grey and more popular than Rachel has ever been even when she was "dead". Rachel only exists because of her the old Jean/Phoenix connection. There is no age of Rachel, now or ever, and any age that could have been would only have happened after the "death" of old Jean and even after that Rachel was pushed aside for the age of Emma, who also lived in the shadow of old Jean.
Unfortunately, I don't think Rachel is quite as relevant in the current state of the world. Hopefully someone explores her as a character, but the PF concept just tends to destroy any character it touches.
I agree with you. Rachel has not been consistently interesting since the 80's, but neither has Jean. She has had more great moments since the 80's, though. If you take alternate realities into account(like AoA, Ultimate, and possibly the O5) Jean has definitely been more interesting.
They're kind of equal to me. The main reason I voted Rachel is because I kind of expect this to turn one sided in Jean's favor.
I like Jean more, but I always thought both characters had space in the shared universe. I don't think any writer has really explored their relationship in any long term sense.
I love Rachel but following some of the debate here its made me winder if it might not have been better to just combine the characters.
I know it sounds crazy but what if Jean had somehow by means of the Phoenix or by means of harnessing its power had gone into the future and been in DOFP but going by the name of Rachel. Or the Phoenix woukd have awoken or given her precognition and she would have seen the future but either way she would have seen what could happen and come back to the present with that knowledge and seeking to change things. Or for those of us who always hated time travel stories, because some are sick of them now but DOFP was groundbreaking and awesome for its time, maybe she was given a vision of the future and it played out as DOFP. I guess she would have journeyed to the future again to see if things had changed and seeing the future and most of the people she cared about dead would have changed her in some ways. Or again minus the actual time travel glimpsed the future to see if anything had changed. This way you have even more depth to Jean as a character and possibly no ongoing arguments over who's better or that Rachel is Jean Grey lite or the convolution of alternate reality characters lol (can you tell I'm not really fan of the alts)
I don't know it was just a random thought and I've been drinking so take it for what it right lol
I find it bothersome that Rachel is being criticized for being a Jean offshot. I mean despite her history, Rachel is THE key character in the Summers/Grey/Cable/Askani plotlines and has had numerous adventures enemies and clashes independent of Jean or her legacy. It's to the point that the number one request when it comes to Rachel is that she have more of a opinion and feeling on Jean/Cyke/Cable and their activities. Rachel shares traits with Jean, but at best it can be described in vague comparisons of their emotions as "they both get angry at their enemies".
The way I see it X23 is more closely connected to Wolverine and his plots then Rachel has been to Jean. And yet X23 can be discussed without mentioning Wolverine at all, while every discussion about Rachel involves Jean, more because its what the fans want from a Rachel story then because it's something that she has an abundance of in the source material.
@hawk2916: Exactly....I mean (god help me) Hope Summers is a victim of this. Because despite being a crazy influential character who was designed to be jarring to people who thought she was Jean, gets a lot of criticism because in the end it turned out she wasn't Jean. And believe me, there are alot better reasons to criticize that character then to blame her for being the character that she isnt.
@hawk2916: Exactly....I mean (god help me) Hope Summers is a victim of this. Because despite being a crazy influential character who was designed to be jarring to people who thought she was Jean, gets a lot of criticism because in the end it turned out she wasn't Jean. And believe me, there are alot better reasons to criticize that character then to blame her for being the character that she isnt.
Hope Summers is definitely the most ridiculous example of that. Completely different powers, personality and skills (soldier training from Cable) but oh my she has red hair and green eyes...
Guess Black Widow must be a Jean Grey clone too then.
Regarding hope... She went under Jean's shadow when marvel used the 2nd coming tag. They made hopes birth seem like Jean's 2nd coming. They also teased readers by making it seem that hope is a psionic mutant.
@darthphoenix: True, and no one is Denying the obvious and repeatedly stated story connection between them. But Hope has had 3 very unique and growth worthy character arcs since her connection to Jean fell into the background and yet even arcs involving her feud with Stryfe or relationship with Cable can't be discussed without her being reduced to the "Jean-Clone" box
Voted for Rachel.
She has the most interesting history/story among the x-men. At least for me.
She has Jean's powers and attitude.
She is living and concerned with her teammates/ (spare heart of the x-men) hot tempered like jean too.
She is very creative with the use of her powers.
She is also a good leader/tactician just like jean and Scott
She has the cooler costumes.
She has cooler hair.
She can kick butt better too.
who's Rachel:/
She was Jean and Scott's daughter from the Days of Future Past timeline.
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