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#1 Posted by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

Not being an X-man followed i'm not particularly well versed in their power-levels. Is there anything more powerful than Omega level?

The only reason I ask is that in Scarlet Spider 17. Kaine and Aracely attacked The Jean Grey School and Aracely had Rachel Grey, Jean Grey and Quentin Quire rolling around in mental pain. I'm just trying to gauge on the kind telepathic ability it would require to accomplish this:

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#2 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (4701 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends on their specific skill levels, but most Omega level telepaths are capable of listening to thoughts on a massive, global scale with the right equipment and can manipulate consciousness itself. Omega level telepaths with lower levels of skill or experience can't control their powers, as well, so can be overcome by a less "powerful", more experienced telepath who is more knowledgeable about influencing thoughts and psychic energy.

That being said, telepaths can be compromised by certain techniques such as amplifying the ambient level of psychic energy in an area, using psionic dampening fields or sonic frequencies that disrupt thought patterns. There have been instances where a high level psychic or telepath has been overcome by alien thought patterns that damage their mental state - it usually results in them lying on the ground holding their heads.

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#3 Edited by Saren (27933 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly seems like jobbing from Rachel and Quire ---- perhaps not so much from Jean considering the teenage version is a pretty middling telepath, as evidenced by how casually the Cuckoos went to town on her.

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#4 Posted by TDK_1997 (18634 posts) - - Show Bio

Well most Omega level telepaths can hear thoughts on a global scale but that depends on the level of the telepath.If he isn't really into his powers and he is new with them he can be put down by a weaker telepath.We saw in the last issue of All-New X-Men how teenage Jean Grey was screwed over by the Stepford Cuckoos.

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#5 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7703 posts) - - Show Bio

^Exactly why the term "Omega Level Telepath" means absolutely nothing.

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#6 Posted by lykopis (10845 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish they would drop the whole Omega idea altogether. It's annoying -- from mutants being "identified" as Omega to those who are Omega only in terms of their telepathy but not telekinesis and so on. Out of them all, Quentin should not have been affected (let alone Rachel) and as for Jean and the recent slap down she got from the three remaining Cuckoos, people are being jobbed left, right and centre in that school.

It's probably easier to identify who ISN'T Omega when it comes to telepathy. (<-----yes, that was sarcasm)

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#7 Edited by laflux (24722 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: @strider92:

When I looked at the title, I was instantly going to write- "not strong enough to get owned by Aracely- and linking a limp bizkit keep trolling parody ". But since that was referenced in the OP, I was left with nothing in terms of wit to bring into this thread :(

#GUTTED

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#8 Posted by laflux (24722 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

I wish they would drop the whole Omega idea altogether. It's annoying -- from mutants being "identified" as Omega to those who are Omega only in terms of their telepathy but not telekinesis and so on. Out of them all, Quentin should not have been affected (let alone Rachel) and as for Jean and the recent slap down she got from the three remaining Cuckoos, people are being jobbed left, right and centre in that school.

It's probably easier to identify who ISN'T Omega when it comes to telepathy. (<-----yes, that was sarcasm)

In all seriousness, I think Omega refers more in terms of Power potential rather than actual power being displayed at the present time. Its how I use it to get past Iceman doing absolutely nothing worthwhile in every comic I've read with him in it >.<

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#9 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (4701 posts) - - Show Bio

BTW Not really sure if "strong" applies to a power like telepathy since it's an energy type. Technically, we are discussing the weaknesses or limitations of the most well-known telepaths versus really discussing any inherent weakness or flaw in their receptive ability to harness psionic energy. Even the Phoenix entity had her thoughts scrambled by the Hellfire's club scrambling device and she was higher than Omega level at that point.

Kind of like asking "how strong is electricity?" - depends on what you are trying to do, what it is interacting with, situational modifiers, etc.

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#10 Posted by darthphoenix (2345 posts) - - Show Bio

was Aracely even attacking? she said sorry. i dont think rachel was even trying to fight her

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#11 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (4701 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthphoenix: I think it looked more like a psionic feedback loop or resistance versus Aracely trying to attack.

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#12 Posted by papad1992 (7025 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by God_Spawn (42994 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
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#14 Posted by papad1992 (7025 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by lykopis (10845 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@lykopis: @strider92:

When I looked at the title, I was instantly going to write- "not strong enough to get owned by Aracely- and linking a limp bizkit keep trolling parody ". But since that was referenced in the OP, I was left with nothing in terms of wit to bring into this thread :(

#GUTTED

HA! It must have sent you into a mental wobble, poor thing. ;p

@laflux said:

@lykopis said:

I wish they would drop the whole Omega idea altogether. It's annoying -- from mutants being "identified" as Omega to those who are Omega only in terms of their telepathy but not telekinesis and so on. Out of them all, Quentin should not have been affected (let alone Rachel) and as for Jean and the recent slap down she got from the three remaining Cuckoos, people are being jobbed left, right and centre in that school.

It's probably easier to identify who ISN'T Omega when it comes to telepathy. (<-----yes, that was sarcasm)

In all seriousness, I think Omega refers more in terms of Power potential rather than actual power being displayed at the present time. Its how I use it to get past Iceman doing absolutely nothing worthwhile in every comic I've read with him in it >.<

Yeah -- which ANNOYS. It's the same as mutants discovering a second mutation, just another "tool" writers use when attempting to ramp things up with a character. I appreciate the mentioning of Omega when you've got forces as powerful as the Phoenix running around, and some mutations as clearly more useful than others but when you begin to classify some as different from the others using terms like "Omega" and others, then there is a sense of leveling taking place -- like a class of mutants above all the others and it leaves me unsettled.

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#16 Edited by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92:

What is this even from!? What issue?

Scarlet Spider 17. The assassins guild calls in a favor from everyones favorite Spider-clone!

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#17 Posted by God_Spawn (42994 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: Beat you to it. I guess you can say I was....Superior in this endeavor.

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#18 Posted by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Dan you to helll!!!! Dan Slott you to hell!!

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#19 Posted by Alak (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:



In all seriousness, I think Omega refers more in terms of Power potential rather than actual power being displayed at the present time. Its how I use it to get past Iceman doing absolutely nothing worthwhile in every comic I've read with him in it >.<

This is also sort of how I think of the "Omega" label. It just means that a mutant has the potential to reach a power level that has very few limits (or none at all). Someone who isn't "Omega" has very obvious limitations with their abilities (i.e.- teleportation). An omega level telepath could possibly reach into the minds of everyone on the planet, or even extend his/her reach beyond throughout the galaxies. Of course, potential does not equate to current ability or else Jean would have no trouble tracking down every single villain without cerebro. It just means that you're currently at a much lower level of power display than you should be. It takes practice, hard work, maturity, experience, and willingness to push your abilities as far as they can go. With Iceman, I see it as CIS that prevents him from turning into a thermokinetic god. Magneto, on the other hand, has much better showings despite lacking the "Omega" label since he's spent his whole life honing his powers.

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#20 Posted by danhimself (21433 posts) - - Show Bio

the Omega classification is a joke and it never should have been invented...you can't put things in order that are completely different

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#21 Edited by Veitha (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

That scene looks like PIS... What are Aracely powers? Because Rachel, Blindfolf and Quentin together plus young Jean should be able to fight against pretty much any telepath alone

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#22 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (4701 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

the Omega classification is a joke and it never should have been invented...you can't put things in order that are completely different

Exactly. The most you can do is rank similar powers in comparison to each other since there are gradations of magnitude or effect, or rank them according to overall utility (i.e. an Omega Level mutant who can generate unlimited amounts of static cling would rank lower than a mutant with a less "powerful" but more useful ability like enhanced durability).

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#23 Posted by papad1992 (7025 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992 said:

@strider92:

What is this even from!? What issue?

Scarlet Spider 17. The assassins guild calls in a favor from everyones favorite Spider-clone!

Already got the issue... not bad. I'm interested in Kaine now!

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#24 Posted by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

That scene looks like PIS... What are Aracely powers? Because Rachel, Blindfolf and Quentin together plus young Jean should be able to fight against pretty much any telepath alone

We don't actually know. She is supposedly telepathic and can manipulate peoples emotions.......however she is supposed to be the reincarnation of an Aztec God so her upper limits haven't really been tested yet.

Already got the issue... not bad. I'm interested in Kaine now!

Cool. Its a really good ongoing :)

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#25 Posted by papad1992 (7025 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992 said:

Already got the issue... not bad. I'm interested in Kaine now!

Cool. Its a really good ongoing :)

I'll check out some earlier issues...

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#26 Posted by Emmett_frost (169 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually there is a level above omega level and its called beyond omega level. But that Scan where that girl beat the X-men psychics was absolutely nonsense. You could even see how spiderman beat Iceman, an omega level mutant Who was stated to be godlike.

Rachel Grey was able to get Into the minds of every being on the planet, Scan then cos She was trying to find someone. Travelled across the universe by astral projecting, her mind through time and space, sent message through time and space.

She is a telepathic beast, Jean is a newbie, She has the raw power but not the skills. Quentin is like Rachel Grey, vastly powerful and very intelligent.

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#27 Posted by PyroFN (5935 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmett_frost: Beyond Omega Level is a mutant classification, not a telepathic classification.

Omega Class Telepaths (a better name in my opinion, are telepaths with both skill and power to such a degree that they’re considered the most dangerous and maybe even the best of the best under cosmic entities and gods.

Yeah, I can understand Teen Jean and Quentin succumbing. Quentin is good, but so dang cocky that I wouldn’t be surprised that someone could overtake him and his carelesssness. Teen Jean actually gained quite a lost of experience independent of even our Jean, but at the point in time that the scan showed, yeah, she was a noob. Rachel on the other hand, could’ve and should’ve handled it easily. The writing is bull crap.

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#28 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (6818 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: Beyond omega is a crap redundant term used when an omega level mutant needs to sound impressive, yet none of them have done things that place them higher than actualized omega level mutant. Vulcan was called this, turns out he'd absorbed the powers of three other mutants, so he wasn't beyond his designation, he was amped. Malloy did nothing to get called beyond anything but borning and cliche. Franklin can make little universes. Jeans power according to Death is to be the Phoenix, based off that Rachel's true power is to inherit power from Jean, much like she inherited Jeans tp and tk. Rachel is the other side of the Jean coin. Jean says if Phoenix gets too close it replaces her. Well Rachel also replaces Jean if Phoenix gets too close, and Hope replaces Rachel. Iceman became an instant godlike world threat. Nate and Legion speak for themselves. Not one of these "beyond" omegas have feats on the same scale as the other omegas mentioned.

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#29 Posted by PyroFN (5935 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: Boy do I know it. Writers have done nothing to clear up this classification.

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#30 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (6818 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: I don't think they need to clear it up. Fans need to stop being know it all dbags. I've never been confused by it. People got pissed that mutants they liked didn't cut it, so they feigned ignorance, yet will clearly claim it, if it fits their perspective of said mutant.

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#31 Posted by PyroFN (5935 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Emmett_frost (169 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: the classification of alpha, omega and beyond omega has nothing to do with telepaths.

It has something to do with the amount of power the characters possess. Most of the omega level mutants happened to be psychics. That's all.

Elixir, Iceman, Storm etc r omega level mutants but not telepaths.

There could be a beyond omega level telepath, which would mean that the user's telepathic capabilities r around universal.

Take Nate Grey for example. He is a beyond omega level mutant because of his vast telepathic power.

I never said that the mutant classification has anything to do with telepathy. This topic just happened to be a psychic discussion.

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#33 Edited by LordMordor (394 posts) - - Show Bio

The issue with Telepaths, most notably the top tiers of them (Jean, Emma, Xavier, Rachael), is that as characters they can really never be allowed to have free reign of things or else they just overshadow whoever else is on their team by turning off their opponents brains.

Mystical safeguard, tech based psychic scramblers, "my thoughts are to alien", they have some other C-list psychic and they are blocking me, "the mind of a god is beyond your comprehension", and my personal favorite "I took a couple courses in Psychic defense at SHIELD academy and now you cant make my brain do things"...the list honestly goes on.

Top psychics have shown the ability to alter perceptions and control multiple minds at once on honestly pretty massive localized scales with basically no visible effort. You see it often enough when teams need to be invisible to crowds, or when they need to forcefully evacuate. Multiple instances of complete memory rewrites, inserting of mental triggers, or in extreme cases just mind-blanking someone. And whenever the plot requires it, basic mental training defense is casually ignored by the top users. But in other cases is almost treated like their powers are useless.

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#34 Posted by PyroFN (5935 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmett_frost: 1) “the classification of alpha, omega and beyond omega has nothing to do with telepaths.”

No, it is show of their potential, not their power. Omegas happen to be powerful as a result of their potential. They need to hone that potential by pushing their limits in order to be so powerful. It’s why characters like Jean Grey could be so weak at first and then be considered one of the most powerful mutants to exist.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/2tL2Utt1RMxTtjNR8nrL_R093LfKfx_vxQYr8mfnQNuphPJjSa92SRJpb_8LOYSIlqprybii6Rl3lQ=s1600

2) “Elixir, Iceman, Storm etc r omega level mutants but not telepaths.”

Elixir is another example of a mutant not entirely powerful until he pushes himself. Same with Iceman. Storm is an odd case.

3) “There could be a beyond omega level telepath, which would mean that the user's telepathic capabilities r around universal.”

Not a show of power. It’s a show of skill and power. Phoenix, a universal to multiversal level entity, is considered an omega level telepath. Therefore, it’s unlikely that beyond omega level telepaths exist.

4) “Take Nate Grey for example. He is a beyond omega level mutant because of his vast telepathic power.”

A stark example of why the term is bull. How do you have beyond unlimited potential? It makes absolutely no sense.

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#35 Edited by Emmett_frost (169 posts) - - Show Bio

The omega level telepath Phoenix is Jean Grey, not the force itself. The force is not just a telepath nor is it universal to multiversal only. It is the creation force. And it is as powerful as the Marvelverse itself.

And no Jean is not weak at first. Nor is elixir. It's the writer wanting to limit them. Jean was stated to have immense amount of raw power.

Every cell of her body was said to be a center of power. Plus skills has nothing to do with classification, it's about the raw power.

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#36 Posted by HAWK2916 (4842 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the whole omega level alpha level ratings thing is a problem that should be buried and forgotten in general. Writers will overpower or nerf telepaths and telekinetics abilities depending on the story they want to tell and who's their favorite, so really does it even matter anymore