Hickmans Omega Level Mutants?

Omega Level Mutant: A mutant whose dominant power is deemed to register -- or reach -- an undefinable upper limit of that power's specific classification.

For Example: Both Magneto and Forge are the most powerful mutants of their power types on the planet Earth [Magnetism and Technopathy, respectively], but what makes Magneto, and not Forge, an Omega level mutant is that the upper limit of Forge's measurable powers could hypothetically be surpassed [and, in fact, has by multiple humans on the planet], while the upper limit of Magneto's power cannot be surpassed by any measurable fashion.

Note: Omega level is a classification of a single mutant power. While it is quite common that mutants manifest multiple powers, only one is normally of Omega level.

For Example: While Jean Grey is both a telepath and a telekinetic, she is only an Omega level telepath.

1. Jamie Braddock (Monarch) - Quantum Reality Manipulation

2. Robert Drake (Iceman) - Negative Temperature Manipulation

3. Joshua Foley (Elixir) - Biokinesis

4. Jean Grey (Marvel Girl) - Telepathy

5. David Haller (Legion) - Power Manifestation

6. Erik Lensherr (Magneto) - Magnetism

7. Kevin MacTaggert (Proteus) - Psionic Reality Manipulation

8. Absalon Mercator (Mister M) - Matter Manipulation

9. Ororo Munroe (Storm) - Weather Manipulation

10. Bennet du Paris (Exodus) - Telekinesis

11. Quentin Quire (Kid Omega) - Telepathy

12. Franklin Richards (Powerhouse) - Universal Reality Manipulation

13. Gabriel Summers (Vulcan) - Energy Manipulation

14. Hope Summers (Hope) - Power Manipulation

Stolen from Reddit by way of @mooty_pass

@hawk2916@adamtrmm

Lol the thing with this definition is that it basically means there can be only one person of a certain power type with omega level as a classification OR if one person surpasses the character or characters with the Omega Level title, then the person beneath them is no longer Omega level.

So basically if Nate ever comes back to the 616 he is so far ahead of Jean and Quire with the level of his mutation an power levels that Jean would no longer a Omega- Level mutant because there would be a higher level for her to reach.... smh this is why i said it was best to just ignore the whole damned Omega thing.

Maybe it's kinda like being the "Supreme" eventually another mutant will come along that surpasses their predecessor's proficiency in their specific specialty. (Except apparently in the case of Jean Grey and Quentin Quire sharing VIPs to the White Hot Room)

I think it's pretty interesting to have 3 different versions of reality manipulation. I like the specificity.

I wish Sunfire was included as the fire to Bobby's ice, especially after having absorbed a Celestial's energy, but this is a solid list of who is actually an Omega...and I bet the Storm fans are electrocuting themselves in exaltation over confirmation their queen is Omega. I'm happy too, nice to show Storm is boss. Also pretty remarkable Xavier is not listed, but explains why he's masked with Cerebro because otherwise he can't hang with JG and QQ.

Most interested to see how they depict Jamie Braddock, Exodus, Proteus, Mister X and Elixir. These are all characters casual fans may not have any context for and the sky's the limit. Imagining Jamie has something to do with the new Captain Betsy led incarnation of Excalibur and that Elixir is the mass resurrector.

According to the OP of the omega level mutants reddit thread, that is the list of all known/considered Omega Level Mutants and it appears in the issue itself.

Spoiler from the issue regarding Omegas, and it's pretty important to the plot I think

FINALLY Storm and Erik get their omega level status for real 100% confirmed. Exodus too. They've all been viewed and treated as omegas anyway they just lacked the label. i'm confused by his explanation though. he goes into detail abotu Forge not being an Omega despite being the most powerful in his powerset because his "powers could hypothetically be surpassed [and, in fact, has by multiple humans on the planet]," yet there are 2 omega telepaths on the list? Odd, but hopefully they expound on the future since the Omega thing looks to be a big plotline

@marvelfan1992: "FINALLY Storm and Erik get their omega level status for real 100% confirmed"

The newer battle thread should be interesting.

@mrnihal: hmm not sure about that as it's just a title/status. Quire is an Omega but he'll still get his ass handed to him by Emma, rachel, xavier etc. Unless we get feats I don't think anything changes. But it's good that they finally made a clearer distinction

Eh doubtful. Current Storm and Current Mags already had their blowout and she won. Post-Hickman Storm and Mags could be a whole new ballgame but considering we're just starting out on this train I don't see them fighting anytime soon.

Feats are everything.

Wait a sec, what's going on? I've been AFK for some time.

Forge isn't even a technopath but anyway. What I find interesting is how one can be considered an Omega-level mutant for only one of his powers and not all of them.

House of X issue #1.

I was wondering the same thing.

I'm pulling this out of my @ss but I wonder if it has anything to do with secondary mutation? Iirc Jean got her tk back via secondary mutation so maybe it's weaker now? I don't know...

Could be that. Hopefully Hickman will clarify things during his run.

It does make sense in a way when you think about it.

Hickman will do a lot of changes and will introduce many different concepts to mutants.

So does this mean Colossus is omega??? Lolz

From what Hickman is saying, I'm thinking he simply views Jean's TP as being stronger than her TK, hence she's an omega-level telepath, but not telekinetic.

There is still Cable to consider. Without the technovirus, he's a much stronger psi, both telekinetically and telepathically, than Jean Grey. This list is ridiculous. Jean, Iceman, Exodus, and Magneto should not be on it.

I posted the following on another forum:

1) MJJ, Proteus, and Franklin are all reality controllers, but are not equal in power. I don't care which adjective you put in front of "reality manipulation" in listing their abilities. I fail to see how MJJ and Proteus made the list.

2) How the heck is Jean on the list? Sinister created Pryor, Jean's clone, to procreate with Scott to produce a progeny with unlimited TP/TK powers. If Jean wielded that kind of power on her own without the PF, Sinister would've stopped with Pryor. Nate Grey and Cable should've been on this list and maybe Rachel, but not Jean. Once the Phoenix Force was no longer unique to just a few people in creation, Jean should've been off this list.

3) Exodus? Really??? How the heck did Exodus get on this list ahead of X-Man especially when you have Shaman X-Man out there.

4) Magneto? Really? There is a definite upper limit to how much power his body can handle. "Magneto War" showed us that plus his constant need of machines to hike up his power levels.

5) Iceman? Really? This is totally ridiculous. Technically, Storm should be able to generate colder temperatures than Bobby given her powerset, but she's probably going to be held back in this regard to prop him up.

Where's Scarlet Witch and Selene? House of M, anyone? Necrosha?

Read it. I get it now.

Anyway, I'm conflicted about that retcon. We've had many confirmed Omega level telepaths already. I really don't get why it has to be just one per power. Not sure what's the point and where this coming from...

justice for rachel grey

There's actually two telepaths on the list (Quire and Jean) and also multiple reality controllers with Franklin being far more powerful than the others.

I think this list is an epic fail.

Right... I read it wrong I guess. Will read it again now.

I'll say this: the inclusion of Iceman, Jean, Magneto, and Exodus on the list creates a MASSIVE loophole that future writers can use to add existing characters onto the list rendering the classification worthless.

@stormcell:

Iceman and Jean were already Omega level mutants. I also like how you left out Stormy :)

@stormcell: Lol you see. We don't agree on much of anything but based on this current definition, we're 100 percent on the same page.

Cable and Nate are designer baby mutants who have not only been declared Omega in the past but have showcase power levels beyond anyone in TK an TP....like serious multiversal TP and city busting tk...freaking Exodus is Celestial amped lunatic who's powers depend on how crazy he is. Not to mention he's ranked whereas Rachel who literally had a file dedicated to her having unlimited tp and tk is not listed.

This explanation makes it so that there should only be one person with a certain powerset declared Omega unless too people are equal.....and that Quentin Quire would make that list with worst feats then half the x-telepaths is facinating.

I will shoot some bail though-

There may be factors in each individual powerset that could change how their looked at.

Jean for instance has been able to enter minds and penetrate shields that Xavier could not. Quire has ascended to a higher realm of consciousness. Neither of them have stuffed 8 billions minds into their own or scanned a galaxy casually like Xavier though....So perhaps it's something other then raw power measuring them that they can do, but Xavier could not.

Idk.... but as it stands, he made it so that anytime someone with a similar powerset is beaten or out done by someone else with that powerset. They can lose their Omega status....literally if Hope Summer mimics 20 people and says thats her limit, and then someone else mimics 21...then she is no longer Omega because her limit has been surpassed.

...which is why i didnt even want to touch this stupid concept and hope it's not important to the story, because Omega is a pointless term that won't mean anything when the story needs someone to lose a fight.

Storm fit the definition of an omega mutant going all the way back to Claremont's first run. She has always had within her the potential to wield unlimited power, and her powerset is to perceive the universe around her as patterns of energy, observe how they work, and then replicate what she sees. That's how she learned to control the weather. Also, her feats are just that powerful.

When the classification was originally created, Iceman shouldn't have been included on the list. It created a massive loophole for future writers to add their favorite characters into this category (Emma and Xavier, for instance, both of whom were always far more powerful than Bobby). Jean should have been on the list because at the time only she and a few other people could serve as host to the Phoenix Force. However, now that anyone can serve as a PF host, she shouldn't be on the list anymore. Not with people like Xavier, X-Man, Cable, Stryfe, and others around.

@koays:

I recall a story where Shaman X-Man levelled the entire continent of Asia with a telekinetic attack at the an alternate Pryor's behest.

As far as Jean penetrating minds Xavier could not, it's PIS unless she was being boosted by the PF, Cerebro, Cerebra, or some other external means. Xavier's feats are better than hers.

The other thing is if Hope is included because she can absorb so many different powers, Rogue displayed a similar ability in X-Treme X-Men where she could access the power of anyone she'd touched in the past. Hope shouldn't be on this list either, then.

I've been saying it all along, and I'm gonna say it again. This list was an epic fail. There are glaring loopholes and plotholes here for future writers to exploit to include too many other existing characters in this category which would render it meaningless.

This list needs to be longer. The people on the list are not really surprising really. But I don't understand why Quire is on there when Emma or Rachel could easily blow him WAY out of the water .

Not sure I agree with the list, but then this is just Hickman's opinion on it. The writers that come after him will of course change it as they always do.

To be honest, having either Jean or Quire on the list creates this problem. Also, did you notice how they put "power" for David Haller who is just a psi? They did that to make room for Jean and Quire since if Haller's true power was listed, neither of them would make the list.

The list doesn't need to be longer, rather, some of the people need to be taken off to make room for others who were omitted.

Seriously, this is why I HATE Jean Grey. It's a shame because I actually could've liked the character otherwise. I'm sick and tired of Marvel doing all of these nonsensical contortions with the canon to try and prop this character up and how they hold other characters back to try and make her look good. Readers are TIRED of Jean and the Grey/Summer clan. If they weren't sales on the titles would've never gone down. Heck, even movie goers don't care for Jean too much: https://www3.forbes.com/business/dark-phoenix-is-90-million-behind-the-lowest-grossing-x-men-movie/?utm_campaign=lowest-grossing-x-men-movie&utm_source=yahoo-gemini&utm_medium=yh131778n1us&lcid=yh131778n1us&utm_content=HOMEPAGE_US

Now, they are going to start devaluing other characters like Xavier, who has always been consistently MUCH MORE powerful than Jean to try and make her look good.

And though I've mentioned it, I still can't get over it. Jean does not have unlimited potential on the merits of her own power without being possessed by the Phoenix Force. That is why Sinister created Cable and X-Man (X-Man was the AOA version of Cable that crossed over to 616). Not only that, but X-Man consistently dwarfed Jean in power in every last one of their encounters going all the way back to the 90s. There is no way she should be on this list at all.

On top of all of this, not only has Magneto NEVER met the criteria to be an omega mutant in canon, but they are weakening him more than ever now. He has zero mental defenses, and his force-field is now flawed. It was established long ago right on panel that Magneto had a flawless force-field. It could only be overcome by greater force. Recently, to prop up Jean, they gave the shield a flaw so she could break through.

So, Magneto has been weakened, but he still made the list. :::shaking my head:::

@stormcell:

@stormcell: You hate Jean because marvel tries its best to prop her up... yet you like Emma Frost?

Meh, this is one of several reasons I dislike the power category "muh Omega level" crap. Everyone just starts basically arguing like first graders "did character is the most powderfulest!!" It's dumb.

Yeah, his power is more intuition than anything. Technopathy is a different thing altogether. Like Forge could just build a coffee maker out of a car engine or something, no technopathy or real technolofy needed for that. It's possible Hickman just overlooked or misread the character.

@elpendejo: Maybe the reason they dislike Jean so much is because they think she’s holding Emma back.

Actually, the reason I dislike Jean is for the reasons I stated. Marvel's efforts to prop her up is destroying the canon. I've admitted that Jean Grey should have been categorized an omega mutant at the time it was originally created. I state this because at that time she was one of the few people around who could host the Phoenix Force (it didn't make sense for her to be one of the few unique to be able to host it given that it eats stars for breakfast, something which has nothing to do with TP or TK, but it was canon at the time that she was one of the few). However, once anybody could host it, she should have no longer been an omega.

Now, why do I make this claim? Let's see, I've posted the reasons time and again on this board.

1) Her ability to wield unlimited power was tied to her being able to host the Phoenix Force. Hence, her power levels naturally had very real limits. This is why Sinister created a clone of Jean to procreate with Scott to give birth to Cable and X-Man. The progeny of Jean and Scott would have no upper limits to their psi powers.

2) X-Man has been consistently much stronger than Jean everytime they've met since his conception as a character. In other words, he should knock her out of the "omega" class. Heck, we just saw recently how X-Man dwarfed Jean in power. Are you guys such blind fanboys that you cannot see how this is creating a huge problem with the canon?

3) There are other psis out there besides X-Man who have been much more powerful than Jean when she isn't boosted by the Phoenix Force. Xavier comes to mind immediately (and yes, I consider Emma to be stronger than Jean, but I'm not going to entertain that discussion at this point). So, now what? Marvel is making the claim that Jean without the Phoenix Force is stronger than Xavier eventhough he's always been much more powerful and has the feats to back that?

Given Marvel's track record when they want to prop up Jean, they lessen the power levels of other characters to make her look good. We have seen throughout the years Storm's power levels and mental defenses take a dip whenever she and Jean are on the same team. This was true from the early 90s-the mid-2000s. Conversely, when she and Jean were not on the same team during this period, Ororo's power levels and mental defenses went up. Then, in the 2000s, Magneto's mental defenses have all but disappeared whenever he fights Jean, and now, he has a flawed force-field whereas he used to have a flawless force-field. All of this was done so Jean could pose threat to him in battle. I think Xavier is going to be next on the chopping block for Jean. She doesn't have the feats to prevail against him in a psi-battle, but dollars to donuts she will win if they fight in the future. Putting Jean on this list before Xavier now when hosting the Phoenix Force is no longer a special thing for her is crap writing that totally ignored DECADES of Xavier's canon feats and power levels.

Here's the thing: who wants to read a comic when there is no consistency at all to the power levels and power sets of the characters? Obviously, not too many people with the continually dipping comicbook sales. I mean, really, it's like whomever is the pet character of the writer and/or editor wins at the expense of other characters who have been canonically much stronger.

4) Including Jean, Iceman, Magneto, Exodus, and some of the others on that list devalues it, to be honest. It creates huge loopholes and plotholes as this is a blatant disregard of so much established canon. When future writers come on board, they are going to add their own pet favorites to the list, and some of those additions won't make sense, but because of the inclusion of some of these characters, it will open the door for that.

Again, I have outlined these reasons in my earlier posts.

As for that cry baby picture, the joke's on Marvel, not me. They are the losers in all of this since their actions have led to the downward spiral in sales of their product. I haven't bought an X-Men comic in ages because of the craptastic writing, and obviously the same holds true for hundreds of thousands of other people who used to read the title. Heck, if I remember correctly, didn't Marvel have to file bankruptcy in the mid-1990s? Looking at how they handled X-Men, dollars to donuts they did the same thing to their other titles which led to them going broke from lack of sales.

In the 90s, they kept recycling the same old Grey/Summer clan story tropes from the 80s over and over again, and it got tired. There were other characters on the team that had far greater fan appeal. These other characters are the ones that the base mostly cared to read more about, but the editors and writers tried to force readers to care about the characters they liked rather than who the reader liked...and they paid the price for it.

I mean, they even got so desperate to include Jean and Quire on this list they changed Legion's powerset. He has the exact same powers as Jean (plus his added pyrokinetic abilities), but he's just FAR more powerful than she. So, they just put down for his powerset "power" instead of "psi" or "telepath" or "telekinesis", LOL! They had to do that to make a space for her, Quire, and Exodus...but then they still didn't deal with X-Man, Cable, and Stryfe which leaves a glaring plothole. :::shakes head:::

Anywho, I have to get back to other stuff. Out of time, now.

Ok I reread the issue. My mistake came from the fact that I misread "single mutant power" as just "single mutant" in a rush.

If you take Claremont's idea as gospel then be consistent and follow that one too:

Gallery

On two different occasions Claremont implies there's no known limit to his power.

And speaking of Magneto War you referenced earlier, even then his power was stated to be unlimited. I mind you it's a story where they introduced the whole Magneto is old bullshit and it was showing. He needed the machine for the same reason Xavier or any other planet level telepath needs Cerebro - power focusing. He already released planetary EMS during FA. It's not like it's unheard of...

Anyway, I'm not going to get into this further. Too little time, and too many things to discuss. I'll leave it at that no matter what the response will be.

Storm fans: “Jean is destroying the canon”

Also Storm fans: “Sign this petition to make Storm better than all the other X-Men :)”

@adamtrmm said:

Ok I reread the issue. My mistake came from the fact that I misread "single mutant power" as just "single mutant" in a rush.

@stormcell said:

Storm fit the definition of an omega mutant going all the way back to Claremont's first run. She has always had within her the potential to wield unlimited power, and her powerset is to perceive the universe around her as patterns of energy, observe how they work, and then replicate what she sees. That's how she learned to control the weather. Also, her feats are just that powerful.

When the classification was originally created, Iceman shouldn't have been included on the list. It created a massive loophole for future writers to add their favorite characters into this category (Emma and Xavier, for instance, both of whom were always far more powerful than Bobby). Jean should have been on the list because at the time only she and a few other people could serve as host to the Phoenix Force. However, now that anyone can serve as a PF host, she shouldn't be on the list anymore. Not with people like Xavier, X-Man, Cable, Stryfe, and others around.

If you take Claremont's idea as gospel then be consistent and follow that one too:

Gallery

On two different occasions Claremont implies there's no known limit to his power.

And speaking of Magneto War you referenced earlier, even then his power was stated to be unlimited. I mind you it's a story where they introduced the whole Magneto is old bullshit and it was showing. He needed the machine for the same reason Xavier or any other planet level telepath needs Cerebro - power focusing. He already released planetary EMS during FA. It's not like it's unheard of...

Anyway, I'm not going to get into this further. Too little time, and too many things to discuss. I'll leave it at that no matter what the response will be.

I tried clicking on your scans, but they did not get larger. I can't read them. Who are those scans about? Title and issue#?

As for the Magneto thing, you are dead wrong.

In regards to "Fatal Attractions", the government had activated a machine built by Forge that scrambled the EM field to such a degree that if Magneto entered the Earth's atmosphere and attempted to use his powers, the geomagnetic field would've fedback on him and instantly killed him. Magneto blasted the field while it was in this warped state which resulted in a global EMP.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/pSG2ieG91R_Kj2Oc6g5OnaV7F0tThF8UyS2hHsfmqeucF-hOE2r6xy8VWvsDsEcMxaBs13y_MD0H=s1600

In Magneto War, when the EM fields were in a natural state, untampered by Forge's machine, he needed a machine to boost his powers. This scan describes the machine as an "amplification conduit":

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/XfabPtFxNmhJU6arJQwyboZvZM7W4Lc35L9

DO90xtznGRYxBCvY5XNk-62DequeFqsKVfeJAqStO=s1600

Notice the word "amplification".

Then, when Astra broke that machine, Magneto was forces to try and control all of that power on his own. As an end result, he permanently burned out his power and was lucky not to die. Notice how he couldn't even lift his helmet after the ordeal: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Vno76eCV_IlSlavi_Fr099RpWsQDJTGQm

Q4a5OuKtjwvYTaFv_-hQhJWCQfUy64pVT5MYrVtMdgsMQ=s1600

He ended up having to build a machine to restore his body and power so he could access his full power again without using Polaris.

So, Magneto does not have the power to turn the lights out around the world without the EM fields being skewered to an insane degree (as they were in Fatal Attractions before he attacked it) or he has a machine to boost his powers (Magneto War).

The evidence points to what I'm saying about Jean destroying the canon. Rather than trying to attack my underlying statement, try and refute the points I brought up.

What's that? You can't refute the bullet points I used to prove my case? Well, there ya go. :)

If you're going to attempt to be a troll at least be good at it. This is a horrible effort on all fronts.

Lol....I'm so confused right now, so is this for mutants only native to the 616 reality?

Yes this is only hitting 616 mutants.

@son_of_storm:

Ok, cause Rachel and Nate,and Clyde Wyncham not being on the list is beyond me. Not to mention Hyperstorm.

Yeah I think if HIckman tried to get every high powered mutant across the multiverse and add them to the list there would have been no point in him revamping what it meant to be Omega.

Just a reminder....it doesn't mean a dam thing when someone is still virtually unlimited in their powersets

@stormcell is really out here having a mental breakdown because Jean and Magneto are listed among "the most powerful mutants on Earth", as per Hickman's description on the directors cut about the omega list, which goes against his biased and hater headcanon. Magneto has been referred to as one of the most powerful mutants multiple times and I believe on a few occasions during his classic period to be said the most powerful mutant. (of course he isn't, but they such statements speak of how powerful he is) Jean has been stated multiple times to be second only to Charles, and on a few occasions to be the most powerful telepath. I don't know what kind of delusions you are experiencing but I just thought i'd let you know that for as much hate as you have for Jean (and Magneto apparently because of what I can only assume to be how majority of the vine view him in his classic state to be significantly superior to Storm ) your hate can't actually warp reality and make jean and magneto weak. You say people lowabll Storm because they hate her (which I completely 100% agree with, but it should be pointed out they hate her because you and a few others wanked her to oblivion) and this bothers you, yet you do the exact same thing

@koays they forgot to include her virtually unlimited jobbing

@marvelfan1992: Still got more TP wins against named characters then Jean....