Excalibur (2019) - Official Discussion Thread [EXPECT SPOILERS]

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marvelfan1992

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deactivated-5fd9371ae7062

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Damm my gal Besty looking fly lol

Hopefully it's a great issue

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marvelfan1992

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#4  Edited By marvelfan1992

@psi-bite234: yup she looks dope, can't wait for the book. Btw may I ask why you delete your accounts and make new ones? This is like your 3rd this year right? lolol just curious

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WaitOmegaStorm

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I'm more curious to see how Apocalypse will be used in this story.

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deactivated-5fd9371ae7062

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@marvelfan1992: I got spammed with lots of weird posts (Porn) in private chats from multiple spam accounts for some reason.

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PayneInTheAss

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It was "eh".

Betsy and Apoc the highlights.

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WaitOmegaStorm

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#9  Edited By WaitOmegaStorm

I found Gambit funny threatening Apoc like if he had any chance.

Excalibur Psylocke is the Same Psylocke present in Fallen Angels?

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god_spawn

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#10 god_spawn  Moderator
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Thunderscream

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@waitomegastorm: Y'know that panel where Betsy is staring at another woman and then Jubilee walks passed with Shogo repeating herself because Bets was off in dreamland? That was Kwannon AKA Psylocke. I understand the need to differentiate and establish both characters in their own right, but "Psylocke" was a name coined by Mojo and Spiral back before the big body switcheroo.

This issue was a bit meh for me as much as I hate to say it, but they're building the team and I get that. The art is a little "magic schoolbus" for my taste, but certainly done well.

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ursaber

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@marvelfan1992:

I just read Excalibur and something Betsy says caught my attention. What did she mean by stealing the body she now occupies, her purple haired body is someone else's?

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Thunderscream

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@ursaber: She telekinetically rearranged the molecules of Sapphire Styx's body to recreate the appearance of her original British body.

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ursaber

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@ursaber: She telekinetically rearranged the molecules of Sapphire Styx's body to recreate the appearance of her original British body.

can't wait till she gets her iconic asian body back, then

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Thunderscream

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@ursaber: Now that they're split, I don't see that happening anytime soon. You might wanna check out Fallen Angels where the "iconic asian body," Kwannon is on her own adventure with X-23 and baby Cable.

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#16  Edited By ursaber

@thunderscream said:

@ursaber: Now that they're split, I don't see that happening anytime soon. You might wanna check out Fallen Angels where the "iconic asian body," Kwannon is on her own adventure with X-23 and baby Cable.

Revanche right?

so, Betsy always had purple hair before she body snatched the asian aspect?

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Thunderscream

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@ursaber: She started dying it way back in the 80s while she was living the supermodel by day, S.T.R.I.K.E. psi division agent by night life. (Before Slaymaster poked her eyes out) In Kwannon's body she continued dying it, although much darker. Since she evicted Sapphire Styx and molded the flesh in her own image, she might've made the hair color more permanent, I know I would.

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PayneInTheAss

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Enjoyed 2 more than the first one.

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Thunderscream

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I'm wondering if the fiery wolf is Betsy's new avatar since Kwannon has fully adopted the butterfly.

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AsheTDust

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I’m happy with Betsy assuming the mantle of Captain Britain, but everything else besides Jubes so far has been... odd.

It doesn’t flow very well, does it? The scene jumps and pacing are weird.

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Thunderscream

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@ashetdust: There's just some weirdness, but that's kinda always Excalibur's bag, isn't it? Appears Betsy's having visions again which makes me happy. Jubes, Remy and Rogue all love a good jacket. 2 issues of set up without much to go on, but Shogo just turned into Puff the Magic Dragon, so we're getting somewhere. Ready for Rictor to join the fold and curious about that next cover. Big spoon. Lil spoon.

I thought Akkaba was comprised of genetic descendants of Apocalypse, is this the first introduction of them as magic wielders?

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AsheTDust

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@thunderscream:

It’s odd because I’ve never been her biggest fan, but I’m really enjoying Jubes in this series. In fact she’s replacing Kitty as one of my favorites just because they aren’t trying to force a square character into a round hole like they are with “Kate”.

I wish Rogue was doing more right now, but I can be patient.

Not certain if I like Betsy’s CB costume yet. Hopefully it’ll grow on me.

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Thunderscream

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#23  Edited By Thunderscream

@ashetdust: What'd you think of #3?

I'm very confused by Rictor's predicament. He can't touch the ground, but is perfectly fine standing on a parkay floor...I guess the foundation creates a buffer...but then he sleeps in a dirt filled coffin. Apocalypse shows up and they just walk through the park to the portal, no problem...and he struts out of the Lighthouse later without hesitation.

I like the idea of Betsy being armored, but it seems so clunky and cumbersome in combat, especially with that cape.

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AsheTDust

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@thunderscream: I’m a bit confused as well regarding Rictor. His problems might be due to having a so far undiscovered magical element to his powers.

Regarding Betsy, I’m not certain if she even needs the armor. I guess it depends of how much of the Captain Britain power set she got. Brian was awfully strong and tough. I don’t see any reason why Betsy shouldn’t be the same!

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Thunderscream

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@ashetdust: If she has the power to reconstruct her molecular structure from another person, I'm sure she coulda made some body modifications like tougher skin and more dense muscles. She always wanted to be a warrior, even before the switch and when she gained telekinesis she was much more brazen and physical, using it to amplify her own strength and speed.

Xavier made some changes along the way using Fantomex's body not long before she duplicated the process.

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Thunderscream

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Just read #4, loved it! Rictor and Gambit team up on a heist encountering the Druids, Meggan discovers Jamie's alive and Jubilee punches him in the jaw, and there's an infographic of the Braddock family line with a yet to be revealed lineage of Betsy's mom!? Could the similarity to Meggan's surname suggest Elizabeth was also a mutant and possibly a seer? Betsy is not messing around, declaring their team "Excalibur" before the Queen...but neither is Akkaba, releasing Otherworld's mythological beasts across Europe.

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Thunderscream

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#5 is nuts. Just nuts. Good nuts. Mmmmm nuts.

From what occurs in this issue to the cover of the next, I have no idea if what's happening is real or not, but it's crazy as hell and I loved it.

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Koays

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Rachel Grey appeared as a dog....crapped on Psylockes telepathy.....the fandom rejoiced.

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Thunderscream

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@koays: I'm not sure I totally followed Rogue's glowing tummy and her instinctively knowing to shove a sword's pointy end into it. I guess Miss Prestige was guiding her through the process.

I know Betsy's been stated as the 3rd most powerful psychic, but that fluctuates and I prefer her not being near omega level. That being said, she's been shown to be so innovative with her psychic constructs, I'd like to see more diversity in her weapons of choice outside of a sword and shield. Crossbows, whips, a morning star flail, a spear, somethin.

It makes sense for Rachel to be more powerful.

I admit, it was a hurried crescendo, but I'm not sure everything happened as it appeared. Not even the least bit giddy at the sight of Rogocalypse?

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AsheTDust

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So Rachel’s psychic avatar is a dog now and Rogue just killed and absorbed Apocalypse because, reasons?

Seriously, someone fire this writer. Please?

Oh well, at least the New Mutants have been consistently good!

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god_spawn

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#31 god_spawn  Moderator

@ashetdust: They just gave Rachel a legitimate showing by having her stomp all over Betsy’s telepathy to wake Rogue up, and Apocalypse literally told Rogue, who he stuffed into the crystal coffin to begin, to kill him because those crystals he needed were old bones or something, and his were older.

I don’t get the complaining here to the point they need to fire the writer. All those points worked out and were explained and made sense for the story.

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AsheTDust

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@god_spawn:

Once again, why was Rachel’s psychic avatar a dog? It’s never been a dog before. A flaming canary maybe. Why, the answer must be reasons.

Why did Apocalypse need to have those crystals powered up to alter the gate. Evidently this was so important that he had to voluntarily had himself killed to make this happen. A guy that’s been around for centuries. That always has a plan. That believes in survival of the fittest. Yet this was what he came up with.

For reasons?

Shogo turns into a dragon, for reasons. And then his dragon fire which somehow manages to weaken the dimensional barrier. For reasons? Oh wait, they said dragon fire was bad. But if they knew this, why didn’t they have a way to combat the weakening of the barriers caused by dragon fire? Because reasons?

This story is jumpy as hell and a lot of it doesn’t make sense.

The writer needs to be replaced.

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god_spawn

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#33 god_spawn  Moderator

@ashetdust: That’s such a ridiculous detail to drag through the mud. They used the dog to guide Rogue. You’re not wrong that it wasn’t like that but, but it’s such a nitpick.

Yes the guy that had a plan and always has one but has failed countless times due to the X-Men. Regardless, he had a plan, it didn’t work and he improvised at the cost of his life. Sorry the author didn’t put in enough exposition for you. The author gave you a reason for why Apocalypse did what he did and why he allowed Rogue to kill him. Sure, just reasons.

I won’t disagree it’s a bit jumpy at points, but it seems like your nitpicking, dude. This is far from the worst book, each character is getting some decent time and the team itself is a solid one. It’s not my favorite book, but it’s far from being so bad “the writer needs to be replaced”

But whatever, it’s your opinion.

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AsheTDust

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@god_spawn:

I’ll try rereading it a third time. See if I enjoy it any better, or if It’s just rubbing me the wrong way.

The nitpicking observation could be completely true. Of all the titles this was the one I was most excited for. I absolutely have loved the various Excalibur runs.

Maybe I’ve built it up to much in my head to be the end all be all.

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Koays

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@thunderscream: Betsy was only 3rd strongest when Jean & Xavier were dead and Emma was depowered....Rachels kinda always been stronger.

That said...the writing is a LITTLE choppy....but thats it. I'm still supporting it.

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Thunderscream

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@koays: @ashetdust: @god_spawn: Which do y'all think is the best and worst title? I don't collect like I used to and was open to 2 titles. Gave up on Fallen Angels after issue 3. Hanging in there with Betsy in Excalibur, but, yeah it could be better. The art is decent, the lineup is solid, things just kind of happen and we're expected to nod and carry on, but they're delving into mutants in magical alignment and Otherworld lineage and I'm here for it.

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Koays

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@thunderscream: Ehhhh?

Personally Marauders is the most interesting title, while X-Force is the best action title.

New Mutants is probably the best overall

X-Men is just ok.
It has a good moment every issue....(still kinda love Kid Cable from issue 1) but it's working hard to grasp the characters personalities. We were told at the start it was supposed to have a changing cast and just sort of drop in on their adventures......but it needs the individual issues to be stronger. Issue 4 was the best so far.

Fallen Angels.....I'm trying. It's just ALOT of words and symbolism and flashbacks.....the last issue was the best and thats only because I actually understood it.

Excalibur isn't bad.....but someone needs to stop the writer, tell them to take a breath and then give us a solid issue of dialogue that slows us down....because frankly Rogue killed Apocalypse and I don't even know why.

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@thunderscream:

I’m loving the New Mutants. Hickman is just having fun with the title and it shows. He’s not trying to build a nation with it or anything so what we’re getting is just one big grand adventure so far. Good stuff!

X-Force is enjoyable. Normally I shy away from the X-Force titles because they tend to be overly macho dribble with lots of posturing in deadly situations with little plot. Usually they try too hard to be the cool kids. But so far this time around the story is really good. There are discussions on death, religious overtones and Quire is actually acting like an egotistical punk for a change. The storyline makes sense and the main characters are acting consistently as they have been shown to in the past.

X-Men. The flagship and primary nation building title. The title that makes me wonder what exactly the heck is really going on behind the scenes because the characters are acting too differently than they have in the past. It’s good fiction, deep and intriguing, but not how I would usually envision the comic to run. I’m fairly neutral on this title.

Marauders. A coherent storyline, a great cast and beautiful art. Also yet another let’s shove Kitty down everyone’s throat title. If you love Kitty, it’s a great title. If not, I would give it a pass. The supporting cast is given remarkably little to do. It’s trying way to hard to remake Kitty into one of the cool kids.

Excalibur. After a good nights sleep I think I’ve come to the conclusion on why I dislike this title so much. It’s trying to do too much too quickly and we’re getting a jumpy jumbled mess. If the writer slowed down a little for better pacing I think this title would be amoung the best. This title has my favorite cast and art. Giving Betsy the Captain Britain title was long overdue and much needed.

But the pacing... ugh!

Fallen Angels. Tried reading it, it seems like it’s X-Force lite. It primarily features characters I just don’t care about or ever even think about, so there’s no reason for me to read this title. Except Lara. But she can’t carry this title by herself. I foresee this book being the first to go.

All of the above of course are my opinion. Flawed or brilliant as applicable. ;p

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god_spawn

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#39 god_spawn  Moderator

@thunderscream: Personally, X-Force has been the best book. It’s been consistent, it’s had great character moments, the characters sound like how they should, it’s felt the most important, the plot is moving forward. Percy has done a good job for giving reasons for all of his plot points so far. I think by far it’s felt like this should have been the flagship book.

Second Best I feel New Mutants. My only gripe is a lot of the characters almost sound the same, it’s just a little wordy. But that’s Hickman. It’s been a fun book, the cast has been done well, and X-Men in space. It’s a fun book.

I’d rather put X-Men over New Mutants, but overall it has been a 2 for 4 book. I thought the first issue was really good. Great character issue. 2nd issue was not good. The characters didn’t sound right. They seemed off. 3rd issue was slightly better, but them getting punked by some old lady scientists and such, while funny, was meh. The dialogue was funny in it and the characters sounded right, but that was about it. Issue 4 was fantastic. I think my issue with the book is just the lack consistency? We had to really meh issues sandwiches between really good ones. And Hickman still seems like he’s world building but each issue feels very episodic with the only relation between them is Cyclops is there. Humans hate mutants, they’re attacking them, new organizations. I get it, but none of the issues feel like they’re progressing towards anything at the moment. So for consistency sake with my bias aside for characters, New Mutants has been overall better.

Excalibur I’ll say is the 4th best. Because the lineup and characters have been written pretty well. They have a mission, they’re going towards it, they’re throwing in a bunch of magic stuff. Every one is getting screen time. It has its issues, it’s been choppy, but it’s far from a bad title and it’s far from the worst things we’ve seen written.

Marauders: I’ll say this could’ve been a 4th place book and it could trade spots with Excalibur, but I like the island adventure pirate feel. I’m not against Kitty being in a leadership role, she’s been on the team for 10+ years timewise, they’re having her pull some cool stuff off, but unlike some exaggerations I’ve seen, she hasn’t been super Kate. I think when the writing has been on, it’s on. Emma and Shaw are handled well. Storm just got a really cool moment in the last issue. My gripes have been the writing at points. I know Kitty and Emma have put away some differences since Whedon’s run, and Emma even sent Kitty a gift for her birthday like 2-3 years ago. But then you get something like kitty saying she would’ve wondered what it would’ve been like if she had Emma first before Xavier and I’m like “whaaaat?”. Iceman is just useless in this book, and he’s the strongest one on the team.

But this is another book I’ve seen nitpicks for. “Kitty’s leading the team! Not Storm! They should be in a plane, it will be quicker.” Aside from that, it’s been ok. It’s a book you can get away with that kind of episodic feel because it’s not a main book. It’s random missions saving mutants until Shaw’s plot unfolds. So we have an idea where things are going, it’s just waiting until we get there and seeing if they can keep us interested enough to stay there.

Fallen Angels is the worst by far. The plot is so convoluted it makes no sense. I hate this Kwannon Psylocke arc. Kid Cable is still a terrible character, and no one has written him competently since his debut when he killed actual Cable for being sloppy and here is doing the same shit in two books. This mentorship between Psylocke and Laura is forced. Laura doesn’t need any help. This weird budding relationship with her and Cable when Laura was 21 in her last solo is just regression. They’re regressing the best character on the book and putting her in situations that don’t need to happen. The art was ok it was different at first but by far this is the worst X-book atm. I see almost nothing redeeming about it. Get Laura out of there.

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god_spawn

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#40 god_spawn  Moderator
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@ashetdust: @koays: I like reading our differing opinions lol. Good write ups.

Lol yea.

I mean I don't disagree with either of you.

Fallen Angel & Excalibur are the weakest....for oddly similar reasons giving the tones and focus of the books.

X-Men is....there.

New Mutants is the best and X-Force is up there.

While Marauders depends on where you land on Kitty and how the rest of the cast is being used.

I think it says something that everyone is enjoying the brightly colored titles with alot of personality and "Life Post Krakoa" tales....and X-Men not delivering on it is it's major critique.

I will just add though....X-Men is approaching issue 6. Which should be the end of the first arc and yet it's done the least with that time.

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#42  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@koays: Me either. I get where you both are coming from. And as you said, just kind of depends on where you fall on the fence with certain things, mainly Marauders. And agreed on X-Men. It reads a lot like filler. I know Hickman is a very slow burn, seeds planted, kind of writer, but the inconsistency with voices and lack of clear direction are the book’s biggest drawbacks, IMO. And all around, he’s probably the best/biggest writer we’ve had on the title since Whedon. I don’t think things need to always be a hit the ground running ordeal, but every other book atm has at least established a direction it wants to go. This doesn’t feel a flagship title at all, or at least not yet, but how long until it does, you know?

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Koays

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@god_spawn: Yea...I was on another site where they were discussing the Justice League slow burn and comparing it to Hickman and it made me really go back and remember how CRAZY LONG Hickman wrote Avengers for before he finally pulled the trigger.....and even then he had multiple triggers to pull.

I mean I'm all for the X-Men being a 2 to 3 year build, but my thing is that if I was only reading X-Men I'd be getting ready to drop it since nothing has happened.

It's probably just because he isn't as familiar with the characters, but I feel like we spent the day with Rachel, Scott, Emma, & Cable and only got wiffs of them and their lives/roles on Krakoa despite all the exposition.

The benefit of a long run is that he'll have time to adjust....but right now he's damned either way since he's coming up on this big Shiar story featuring Vulcan in X-Men.....and Vulcan is almost as robotic as Rachel so it doesn't even matter if he's finally getting some momentum.

Idk....March is just around the corner....but so is a 1 year anniversary of House of X.

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god_spawn

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#44 god_spawn  Moderator
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New Mutants, huh? Maybe I should take a look at it. Loved the thoughts from everyone. @koays, @ashetdust, and @god_spawn. Good stuff.

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Thunderscream

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Whooooosh another issue of Excalibur. I really really really just want Apocalypse away from this team and the instant resurrection trick has already gotten old fast.

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Thunderscream

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#48  Edited By Thunderscream

I've read #6 a few times now. SPOILERS (if there's anybody else left still reading it)

Why go to the trouble of listing the order of the collection of X-titles as if they're following a timeline only to have Xavier cameo here when he's been "dead" since the beginning of X-Force? He still is, right? This is the only book I'm pulling atm, and some of it is fun, but...

Rogue had Apoc's powers, she absorbed him until he died, so should that not mean she now permanently retains his abilities even though he's been resurrected or no? Cuz the blue lipstick has washed off in the hot tub back on Krakoa with Remy and they don't mention it AT ALL. They DO mention that she finally has control over her abilities...but she had a dream (which sounds more like it actually happened which is concerning) that having a baby would kill her, the baby or both. Huh? But...control.

It's implied Jamie influenced Betsy's hands to plunge Brian's sword into him under Apocalypse's instruction, I want to say so that he would stop repeating his limited time catch phrase, "Pretender!" Betsy is aware that she was pushed to kill. It's interesting because Betsy controlled Brian's body to kill Jamie back in Uncanny X-Force, but they don't mention the irony of that AT ALL.

They aren't touching on Bets and Brian's psychic bond and it's bugging me. Gaining the Sword of Might through a dream was lame. Too many dream sequences already. He could've been brought back by Merlyn/Roma the moment he was killed or even, let him stay dead a few issues, I know that's a crazy idea these days. I need thoughtful storytelling and nuance and Tini is just blazing through this like dragonfire. "Boop!"

It makes so much more sense for Betsy to have the Sword of Might, I hope she tries to combine the powers of both or favors the sword over the amulet.

Jubilee is just there, Shogo gets more panel time than her :/

Aaaand can I just say, I understand that there are many Similarities between Apoc and Sinister, but I don't think of Apoc as a geneticist. He's more of a tech guy in my eyes. Differentiate them a little.

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Koays

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So are we just gonna sit back and act like this whole first arc made sense?

Yea?

Ok.

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AsheTDust

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I’ve seen ferrets on a sugar high that bounce around less than this title. :D

That being said, give Betsy the sword since it works better with her established character, and I have no idea why Rogue’s draining of The Artist Formerly Known As Apocalypse’s powers didn’t turn out to be permanent. Maybe King James removed them by twisting his string thingies.