Dark Phoenix Saga/Supernova

OK so as we all have heard, most likely the next X-men movie will be about the Phoenix and Jean Grey. Now there's been a quite spirited discussion about Jean in another thread but in this one I wanted to ask basically how we feel about the original story. Did you like it, was it done right, would you change it?

Do you feel that the original story took things to far out there and got too far-fetched so to speak when it came to the X-men?

What would you change if anything about the original story? How would you do it

Do you hope the movie sticks close to the comic or should they take more liberties like last time and just hope they get it right?

I just hope that it would be bigger than avengers in terms of production budget.

Well, Singer hinted at Protus being the focus of the next film and alluded to him in Apocalypse.

But to answer your question. I think it should take some liberties. The Dark Phoenix Saga is impactful because of how much of blank slate Jean originally was.

There are more storylines out there than the Phoenix Sagas. Dark Phoenix was already poorly adapted or rather reinvented in X-Men 3 so instead of coming back to it they should explore other storylines.

If they were to do ANOTHER Phoenix Saga in the supposed Supernova, they could at least include the Shi'ar Empire and introduce the awesomeness of Gladiator.

I would love Supernova to introduce the Phoenix Saga. AND the next film to be the DARK PHOENIX SAGA with the Hellfire Club.

Most people don't know the significant differences between those two arcs.

@poisonfleur: That might be a step in the direction. Instead of Hodge podging everything together giving just due to the two stories

The Hellfire Club was already introduced in First Class and destroyed in Days of Future Past.

What would be cool would be to see the Shi'ar, Gladiator and the M'kraan Crystal.

The original Phoenix story was good and iconic, but it's not my favorite. I thought the transition to the Shi'ar section of the story felt clunky. Honestly, I get the feeling that the only reason that it became so popular was because it featured someone's death.

Supernova: Jean destroys a star. This attracts the attention of the sh'iar and the gathering of the imperial guard is the last image of the movie...

If they did a direct adaption of the original Dark Phoenix saga from the comics, it would go down like a ton of bricks. X-Men: Apocalypse is the most comic-booky of the films, and it has worse reviews than The Last Stand.

I think there are some core elements of the plot that need to remain intact:

- Jean increases in power and in use of her power

- A force (The Hellfire Club) tries to control and influence Jean's power

- Jean loses control of her power and becomes Dark Phoenix and chaos ensues

- The X-Men help return Jean to being her normal self

- A force (The Shi'ar) appears to bring Jean to account for the actions of Dark Phoenix

- The X-Men fight an impossible fight for Jean

- Jean sacrifices herself to prevent becoming Dark Phoenix again

The roles of the Hellfire Club and the Shi'ar could be replaced by other forces, although the Shi'ar are helpful in illustrating the scale of the Dark Phoenix problem.

If the Shi'ar are used, I would suggest foreshadowing their arrival by Prof X having visions of Lilandra like in the original Phoenix Saga, and make Dark Phoenix a prophesied world destroyer like Colossus was in the Astonishing run.

The Dark Phoenix Saga is just really a culmination of the Claremont/Byrne era of the stories they told. It has a lot of plot elements that had been built up from their several year tenure of working together. Jean being slowly courted and manipulated by Mastermind, the All New, All Different X-Men coming together as a family and fighting unit, Scott and Jean's relationship, Sebastian Shaw's machinations etc....It would be difficult to try to translate this exactly within a two hour film.

I said it in another thread but I think a good way to handle the Phoenix related material would be to adapt the Whedon story with the Shiar filling in for the Breakworlders and Jean in place of Colossus in the story. You could have D'Ken or Deathbird purposefully misinterpret a prophecy for political reasons that foretells of a powerful being from earth will destroy the galaxy but Lilandra discovers the truth and tries to intercept the X-Men before the Shiar can get to the Jean.

Also, as I have said in other threads; when you are adapting a comic to film, the operative word there is adapt. You don't have to make it exactly like the comics, because comics are a completely different form of storytelling. The Dark Phoenix Saga, while classic, is ridiculously "Silver Age-y" I mean, after the X-Men battle a super evil Gentlemen's Club Jean randomly flies into space and eats a sun for no reason just so they could have a climax where the X-Men fight a team of DC comics styled super powered heroes, which were the Legion of Super Heroes analogues, the Imperial Guard. It's a really weird story.

It would be a tough sell, but if they organically show the slow transition of Jean's fall from grace, they will have a hit. Claremont is as masterful writer, describing every characters thoughts and Jean's feelings of what it's like to wield such power. Very hard sell if in a two hour movie. They could make it longer, but Foxes style is to condense for some odd reason.

@invain: If that were the case, then Mimic would have been more popular. That is not the at all.

That was different. Mimic wasn't ever truly a member of the team, and had little development. His death was more akin to Thunderbird. Jean was popular, like Electra. If a popular character dies, then everyone will want to read that story, and the story itself will become popular.

@invain: Professor X died at one point before Jean. Then again, he didn't really die as it would turn out.....

I don't know. I would give the Dark Phoenix Saga more credit than it killed Jean Grey.

I think it would work well as two films. The first film should be a majorly team oriented film (maybe the M'Kron Crystal story arc) introducing the Shiar, then the next movie has the Hellfire Club (or whoever) then the whole Dark Phoenix thing. That's my vote, though I doubt it'll go that way.

Can't they do a Jean Grey story that doesn't involve the Phoenix? Its literally an endless rehashing of her character. Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Saga elevated her to new heights but rehashing the same old story over and over and bringing the Phoenix over and over is tiring and stale. Why don't they just focus on Jean the character rather than the massive pain in the LIFE that is the Phoenix Firebird.

There are other great themes and stories like Proteus, Chaos King, the Shi'ar Empire and Gladiator, a proper Brotherhood of Mutants, the Morlocks, etc.

He wasn't a member of the team, and stories of people loosing their mentors were already common in comics.

I don't know. I would give the Dark Phoenix Saga more credit than it killed Jean Grey.

I didn't say the death of Jean Grey was the only reason it was popular. I said the death of Jean was the only reason it was sopopular. Meaning, that I don't think that the story would of reached the heights that it did without her death. I like Dark Phoenix Saga, but it's not my favorite. It is also not the best written. However, it is the most popular. The one thing that it has that elevates it is the death of Jean Grey. She was a fleshed out character and a core member of the team. The emotion that we saw from Cyclops and the rest of the X-Men is what made that story special. You take that away, and what's left? You're essentially left with just another sci-fi story, only a little different than the climax of the first Claremont/Cockrum run. So, yes, I think the death of Jean Grey is what really made that story.

@invain: OK. I understand now.

I don't think the Shiar stuff would work well in a movie.

As long as they get rid of mystique and give Cyclops what he's long overdue, I'm game. But the only way the X-Men will have justice is in a (high budget) TV series, not movies.

The Phoenix has been done to death. Break new ground. But keep Jean Grey cause she's the best. She's more than powerful enough on her own with her Omega level Telekinesis and Telepathy.

No more sequels please Mr Singer, don't ruin another one. Just leave it alone.

I actually don't like the Shiar involvement or there inclusion in the original story. I like @cattlebattle's idea of using the Astonishing X-men story with Colossus but really Im not to sure I would want to go alien off world with the X-men in a movie. I tend to like things a bit more grounded. I say maybe adapt Mike Careys Age of X story. In that story Jean Grey manifest as the Phoenix and destroys Albany. I say maybe have Jean lose control and do something similar setting off heightened anti-mutant hysteria. Maybe instead of the Shiar perhaps Xavier along with the government gathers another group of mutants (Freedom Force?)to help stop Jean. This results in a battle between the X-men who want to protect Jean and those who want to stop her.

Sounds like X-3. They did the Dark Phoenix but no Shi'ar, no Hellfire club, not even a firebird. Besides X-Men Apocalypse already set mass mutant hysteria with Apocalypse launching the planet's nuclear arsenals (kinda reminds me of Superman IV). I think the Shi'ar would be a good idea. Every Marvel franchise has a tied in alien race: Spider Man has Symbiotes, F4 have Skrulls, Avengers have Kree and the X-Men have the Shi'ar and Badoom.

@hawk2916: I think maybe a Magneto led Brotherhood as Freedom Force could fill in the role of the Shi'ar. Magneto wanted to kill Mystique in DOFP because of what her assassination of Trask would do to mutantkind. It makes sense that he would have similar views about Dark Phoenix.

The Shi'ar would require foreshadowing to appear in film whereas audiences are already familiar with Magneto and the Brotherhood. I would suggest that a form of the Hellfire Club (maybe with Emma and Mr Sinister) still appear as the manipulators of Jean. That means that there are 3 viewpoints, the X-Men who want to save Jean, the Hellfire Club that want to control Jean, and the Brotherhood/Freedom Force that want to eliminate Jean.

@ursaber: It wouldn't be like X-3 at all. I realize that Marvel ties everything into aliens and magic and I'm saying that I don't care for it. Neither do I like the Shirt so I wouldn't go that route

@tristanheron: I agree for the most part. Though I don't know about Magneto leading Freedom Force. I guess it could work though

Please no give Magneto a break.

I also like things a little more grounded but them doing another terrestrial phoenix story without its cosmic origins would be a similar scenario to X3 whereas the Shi'ar would finally see them breaking new ground. Plus I really wanna see Gladiator, he's an absolute beast.

Marvel's magic is really just advance science so it takes the supernatural element away from it and aliens are common. But the X-Men have time travel and timelines so they're not all that grounded.

Shirt???

@mizerous: I appreciate that Magneto has been done to death in the films, but he is the first person that comes to mind as someone who would kill for the greater good. I'm happy to hear other alternatives though.

@ursaber: I think we could get the cosmic firebird that by the way has been one to death in comics, without really having to include the Shiar (damn auto-correct changed it shirt lol). I mean they could fight a battle at a station out in space. Jean could pilot a shuttle back to earth etc but with no other mention of the Shiar it might be hard to just throw that in there. Only long time comic fans would understand that and really that doesn't seem to be the audience they are targeting. On a side note it would be a statement and probably kind of neat if this was the way to show everything is OK between Fox and Marvel and just use this to introduce the Avengers. So we get maybe an AVX but done the right way.... I know I know lol

Oh yeah... wanna guess how I feel about time travel?

Once again they rush things and it has a terrible tendency to end accordingly. They should be building up for that moment of Jean's final transcendence with all the figures and players already introduced so it doesn't look like slapping it all at once and hope it works fine like BvS and Wolverine Origins did. There has to be a middle movie, one that subtly introduces Shiar as a concept at least, one that reestablishes HFC (or whoever it is going to be corrupting Jean), developing the team that was formed in the end of Apocalypse (minus Mystique, thank god), their bonds and friendships, some closer, some rivalry, all possible dynamics in general with one at the top - Scott/Jean's relationship because that's what makes DPS so compelling right?

Or, they are completely making it comics-plot-free, Logan style, use it only as an inspiration and main concept, while doing their thing entirely. Which can either be a revelation, like Logan, or a disaster like X3... allover again.

@adamtrmm: Yes, but they will need to take some liberties given how a lot of the stuff mentioned have sort of been put off the table due to them introducing he HFC earlier on, unless they make use of the Phoenix ability to resurrect beyond just Jean Grey, in which case, holy crap we got some expensive VFX.

The problem with that is, the DPS doesn't exactly end the story completely. One thing they will need to do is keep the option open of keeping Jean alive so that it doesn't get to complicated for audiences with their already complications d timeline. After all, they are planning on building their universe, I doubt they would let Jean go so easily, but then again, she hasn't been in every movie. Only appearing in five X-Men movies, appearing in one Wolverine movie, and possibly to be mentioned in a cutted scene from Logan......I'm gonna be sad if they kill Jean. If I do, that means it is a good movie, unless it is so bad that it makes someone cry in agony.

@adamtrmm: Judging from interviews it seems like they don't want to rush into DPS.

If its any indicator from X-Men Apocalypse, the movie might well be a bust for once again rehashing the phoenix instead of covering new ground. I felt the Phoenix's inclusion in X-Men Apocalypse was really forced. I think the Honest Trailer called it "Phoenix Forced In" LOL

@ursaber: It wasn't forced in. Many people forgot that it was set-up in DOFP. Remember when Xavier read Logan's mind and found out about the events of X3? And how in that movie Xavier also had an arc about not controlling Mystique and having faith in people?

So why would Xavier try to control Jean like he did in X3? The Phoenix's inclusion makes perfect sense considering Charles' change in character.

And Screen Junkies in a recent video showed that no one there remembers that moment from DOFP. Since they were saying that Xavier shouldn't know about the original timeline. Tons of people in the comment section had to point it out to them.

@DevilMayehm666: Sorry but to me, it felt forced and unnecessary when I watched the movie.

@ursaber: It was necessary for what they were going for. According to Singer the movie was about showing Xavier as an optimist and that was a way to show it, unlike in the original timeline. He actually believes that Jean can control that power on her own. He has faith in her like he did Mystique and Magneto at the end of DOFP.

Whether it was meant to or not, the movie already suffered from a simple and straightforward plot and an underwhelming villain, so when the Phoenix and Wolverine made their appearances on screen (Wolverine had more build up than Phoenix as he was shown being captured by Mystique/Stryker which BTW was also weird because if Mystique saved him how did he end up in Stryker's hands) it felt tacked on. The movie fell to using tropes and plot points they'd used on previous films. I don't go to see a movie to see what they're gonna set up in the next one, I go to enjoy the movie I'm about to see right then and there.

@ursaber: I disagree with you about it being tacked because they foreshadowed the Phoenix much earlier in the movie and established that Jean has the power to wipe out the planet.

As for Wolverine. Logan went into the military and met Stryker like in the old timeline. LOGAN even shows him with the military identification tags proving this. It was still tacked on.

@pyrofn:

Well I acknowledge the need for liberties, but I'd like them to at the very least have the classic structure, if not for HFC than at least some other body that will be given their role. But resurrected Shaw? I'm fine with it I guess, loved Bacon's performance, but it will go against everything I believe about story progression so I'll better pass over that idea lol.

I think they'll keep Jean alive this time. To balance it out with Logan, like "you see, we can do this all - gritty and hopeful!"

If it's one movie plan, then they kinda do. If it's the whole trilogy, now it will be too much. It must be done with nuance regardless.

Imagine X-Men vs the imperial guards

GLADIATOR!!