Wonder Woman issue 58 *preview*

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masterwitcher88

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Archizooom

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I guess GWW didn’t get the memo that all slain or forgotten Gods go to the Graveyard of Gods now :P just kidding

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Outside_85

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Three things spring to mind reading this:

  • A) Ugh I was hoping we had seen the last of Grail.
  • B) Think the arts kinda wonky, it's kinda like that guy who covered for Chiang in the latter parts of the Azzarello run only not quite as good.
  • C) It might have been her time there... but Grail seems to have changed a lot. She's not a murderous nutter here, it's a bored teenager. And quite frankly not one I would have pegged as actually caring if she accidentally or deliberately killed her cellmate.
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Klaus

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#5  Edited By Klaus

wtf is this. Why has the writer completely changed Grail and Ares personalities. And that art is disgusting.

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masterwitcher88

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No one knows what to do with Grail so, not entirely surprised with this. Though a bored teenager is not something I was expecting. And I agree with Outside_85 she doesn't seem like the kind of teen that would care if Ares died. Not that I liked her old personality but IDK what to make of this.

The writing is fine as is to be expected from GWW, granted this is just the first pages so I'll reserve full judgement for the full issue. The premise is interesting too, Ares trying to redefine himself again to stay relevant. He did this in Rucka 1.0 when he became the god of conflict rather then just war. The artwork leaves a bit to be desired, its not bad just not a style I'm interested in. For once I'd like Diana to have one of DC's premiere artists on her book like Ivan Reis or Jason Fabok. They both drew for Batman and Superman, lets finish the trinity.

I just hope the feats are good. I literally gave GWW a link to Diana's Post-Crisis redit respect thread and she said she would read it (or that she'd like to, I can remember), gave her one to Ares too. I would just like to see Diana as a consistent goddess level powerhouse again.

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masterwitcher88

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@tedirey said:
@archizooom said:

I guess GWW didn’t get the memo that all slain or forgotten Gods go to the Graveyard of Gods now :P just kidding

Lol.

I honestly don't know how to handle that idea. The concept of Gods dying is not new, Norse myth comes to mind, but Greek Gods are specifically called the "Deathless Gods". Death has no hold over them, in the myths they literally just left... there was no end of the universe type thing for them. If they loose an organ or something it would just grow back (TBH that's kind of the level of a healing factor I'd want Diana to have). So, Graveyard of Gods sounds cool and can have slain/forgotten gods there but look at Smite or God of War. People don't really forget the Greek gods or a lot of Gods really, there are entire games about them.

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SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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#8  Edited By SCORPIO_CASSADINE

The heavy, pseudo philosophical, flowery language doesn't go well with cartoony kiddie art and I especially didn't like the Jesus reference. I'm not here for Wilson's theological theories or pontificating, just tell me a good Wonder Woman story and stop trying to be deep.

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masterwitcher88

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deactivated-6264b2a061084

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"The challenge and the creatively compelling part of writing her story for me is to try to get to her human side, get into her flaws and what makes her relatable and what of her experience meshes with ours, us mere mortal schmucks here in the real world"

She is going to deconstruct Diana. I'm sick of these writers deconstructing superhero these days. I had thought it would stay at marvel but with King, Bendis and now GWW writing the big 3, its unavoidable.

From the interview, GWW just comes off to me as one of those writers who thinks every one's take on Diana is frustrating and annoying and so she's going have her own take on everything regarding Diana.

And finally, there is that last bit about "There’s an implicit political aspect to that character and an assumption that she’s always on the right side. But ... Is she? [laughs] Is anybody, ever, always on the right side?" which is again about the deconstruction of the character. She is going to make Diana look like a fool just to make that point again flushing the wisdom of Athena down the drain.

Sigh, this is going to be more frustrating than I thought.

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Chimeroid

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Three things spring to mind reading this:

  • A) Ugh I was hoping we had seen the last of Grail.
  • B) Think the arts kinda wonky, it's kinda like that guy who covered for Chiang in the latter parts of the Azzarello run only not quite as good.
  • C) It might have been her time there... but Grail seems to have changed a lot. She's not a murderous nutter here, it's a bored teenager. And quite frankly not one I would have pegged as actually caring if she accidentally or deliberately killed her cellmate.

I actually like Grail's personality here. So far, every time we saw her she was on a mission. And now, she actually has a personality. She doesn't like being alone, and she doesn't like being bored. With Ares dead, she will be alone and bored all over again.

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Outside_85

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"The challenge and the creatively compelling part of writing her story for me is to try to get to her human side, get into her flaws and what makes her relatable and what of her experience meshes with ours, us mere mortal schmucks here in the real world"

She is going to deconstruct Diana. I'm sick of these writers deconstructing superhero these days. I had thought it would stay at marvel but with King, Bendis and now GWW writing the big 3, its unavoidable.

From the interview, GWW just comes off to me as one of those writers who thinks every one's take on Diana is frustrating and annoying and so she's going have her own take on everything regarding Diana.

And finally, there is that last bit about "There’s an implicit political aspect to that character and an assumption that she’s always on the right side. But ... Is she? [laughs] Is anybody, ever, always on the right side?" which is again about the deconstruction of the character. She is going to make Diana look like a fool just to make that point again flushing the wisdom of Athena down the drain.

Sigh, this is going to be more frustrating than I thought.

Every writer she's ever had has been doing that... like how do you write a character you dont know? That said, it's the challenge for GWW... not necessarily what her run is based around.

As for whenever or not she is on the right side of things? Well looking at todays debut issue for the team, it's not about making Diana look like a fool, but more that the question is not black and white. Spoilers: Diana heads into a warzone with Etta and all Diana sees so far is how the allies of the US (a democratic government struggling with a minority insurgency) seem more evil than the people they are fighting.

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somayareece

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@klaus: Yup the first thing that stood out to me was the terrible art

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Lvenger

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For the record I did say Wilson was going to be a dodgy choice to write Wonder Woman. Sounds like this issue wasn't a huge success on here.

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SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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I didn't like it.

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deactivated-6264b2a061084

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@outside_85: Not every writer

There are writers like Perez, Rucka, Jimenez, Simone who built on the character and added to her legacy.

On the other hand there have been writers like Denny Oneil, J. Michael Strackzynsky, Meredith Finch who tried to completely run away with the character. All under the idea of "She is not relatable" or "we need to make her more vulnerable" or "we need to show that she is more human". This to me is annoying. If its your character, you can do whatever you want. But Diana has legacy of more than 75 years now. They should be adding to it respecting what came before instead of just changing the character completely on their whim.

Anyways, the point being, I hope GWW's run ends up in the former but that interview made me feel that it may end up in the latter. And yesterday's issue was kind of generic to base anything off of. The art style is definitely not to my liking though

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Outside_85

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#22  Edited By Outside_85

@outside_85: Not every writer

There are writers like Perez, Rucka, Jimenez, Simone who built on the character and added to her legacy.

On the other hand there have been writers like Denny Oneil, J. Michael Strackzynsky, Meredith Finch who tried to completely run away with the character. All under the idea of "She is not relatable" or "we need to make her more vulnerable" or "we need to show that she is more human". This to me is annoying. If its your character, you can do whatever you want. But Diana has legacy of more than 75 years now. They should be adding to it respecting what came before instead of just changing the character completely on their whim.

Anyways, the point being, I hope GWW's run ends up in the former but that interview made me feel that it may end up in the latter. And yesterday's issue was kind of generic to base anything off of. The art style is definitely not to my liking though

Actually yes, every writer does some deconstruction to get to the heart of what the character is to them, even if it's small scale compared to what some others do. Some do it through revealing something Diana didnt know about and we get a story of her reaction to it. Some do it through struggles and shortcomings, but the main thing is that no one writes Wonder Woman going on an adventure that means nothing to her character.

And those are the more extreme examples of people thinking a reinvention is needed. And sometimes it's not even them but DC seeing if they can make her sell like Batman with some changes.

True, art is actually pretty bad in this, especially the faces for some reason. Which is why I hate when you put someone like the Dodsons on the cover because it's so jarring going from that to the scrawls on the inside. I am not so sure it's going to be a deconstruction of Diana as much as it is taking a look at the world she moves around in, Diana know what she stands for and she isn't changing that, it's more like how that might impact her relationship with Etta and Steve (both being depicted as dutiful soldiers supporting a brutal but American-friendly regime) and likely contrasting it to Ares and his newfound desire for justice.

Let me postulate that in the coming issues we will find out the government in Fictonesia is just as bad as the rebles they are trying to suppress, but because it's 'democratic' and a US ally it is getting a free pass and support from the US. Etta didn't want Diana to see this because Diana is not going to stand back just because the brutes are US friendlies, it's an ugly political reality that we know from real life that the US has a history of supporting dodgy regimes and groups because thats what suits the overall agenda.
Contrasting this is Ares, who's now out to dispense his idea of justice... which I imagine is going to be completely unpolitical and very bloody, as in 'an eye for and eye' kind of justice. And the problem for Diana is that she might actually agree with him to a certain extent, that the government Ares is going up against is too brutal and needs beating back into line no matter who's friends they are.

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SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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I just read Thor #7, it showed how to effortlessly tell the story of a mythological warrior prince and make it epic and majestic. It took a setup as old as Thor himself and breathed new life into it with amazingly appropriate art. Then I looked again at Wonder Woman #58 and saw how badly we're getting gypped.

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deactivated-6264b2a061084

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@agent41: True. I was just pointing out my thoughts about the interview. I'll wait for atleast an arc to finish before forming an opinion.