Wonder Woman # 36 Preview

Wonder Woman does a good job of trying to talk to Jason here:

But, than not so good here, in trying to explain to Jason why his mother would abandon him, while judging Zeus much more harshly than his mother:

And, here, as compared to her pre-crisis self, especially, but even compared to her post-crisis self, Wonder Woman has a personality that is out of character and looks mistakenly like she's a Xena ripoff; however, at the same time, considering that Jason is a man, she's also more in character with being like the rest of the Amazons around her, something I'd expected quite some time ago, until she was presented going through that stage of her character development, really way back to Marston but especially back to Perez, with even two other opportunities with New 52 and Rebirth. While these bonds didn't hold her, considering the length of this story arc, maybe they'll figure out that her bracelets need to be chained together, or attempted that way, to say if it's been made canon again, in the spirit of Marston and/or Peter. That she's bound and still fully in costume takes away from it and makes it a bit on the childish side of story telling; the question becomes, why did they chain her up or why are they chaining her up versus just taking her somewhere? Or, simply just not having her in a holding stock or something, since she has to he in costume? But, it's a start; maybe there were editorial restraints preventing the modernization of Marston and Peter; of course, it's temporary for something else.

But, yeah, with this little bit so far, it seems that Jason may simply be a big old spoil brat. Despite so far being presented with some straightforward questions by Wonder Woman, he's not forthcoming in explaining his behavior towards Wonder Woman; being forced to hide is not an excuse and feeling abandoned by his mother isn't a reason to be envious and have contempt for his sister, especially in seeing her out and about, off the island, engaged in heroic deeds. But, Jason is just inches from switching and turning on Grail, so it would appear. According to Jason, Grail just showed up one day and now he thinks she's his friend; he's basically a big, naive, gullible man, at a state that we never got to see Wonder Woman develop through as a character.

It's speaking in terms of parenting, not the type of person; there is a noted mobster who was kind to his daughter but ruthless with everyone who had dealings with him.

Well, the issue hasn't really been revisited; over time, a number of things done by Perez were corrected.

Does anyone even read this run?

And understanding that Jason was abandoned by Hyppolyta as a new born baby, Wonder Woman should have understanding on a compassionate level that Jason has no reason to view her as a good mother, in a similar light as herself.

Sure, it was canon post-crisis because Perez started the post-crisis era; but, recently, when removing the bracelets she got a power up so there should be no reason that she gets weakened, if they are chained together, as that's something from Marston and Peter; why should she get a power up but no power down, when removing the bracelets? That's taking this empowerment movement a bit too far on a very petty level, wouldn't you agree? Removing the bracelets should have had no effect, had the Perez material still been fully canon; and, during Rebirth, in the incident with Wonder Woman in the psychology facility or psyche ward, it was looking like Rucka didn't realize the change had occurred (or had restored that blemish from Perez), but I hope Robinson now corrects by making it so that she's weaken, if her bracelets are chained together.

Again, we're focused on parenting; the simple reason for Hippolyta's decision was simply that Jason was a boy, except that's a little beside the point; the issue is her inability to have compassion and understanding for Jason's perspective of things, if part of his resentment is due to Hippolyta having abandoning him as a newborn, but seeing anything bad about Zeus as a parent; and that's either making her a Xena ripoff, unfortunate (e.g. and/or the other notion that Jason should "be a man"), or finally having her behave as another Amazon, a good thing, as Jason is a male.

The feeling sorry was lip service; we're talking about the action of lack of understanding and compassion for Jason's perspective; and he has those naive and brat qualities to go along with it, it would appear, so all the more reason to show compassion.

No, she didn't show compassion for him being abandoned by calling the woman who abandoned him a good mother; if I have to explain how to show compassion to you by getting into someone else's shoes or being able to relate to their plight, than all I can perceive is that you're simply trying to stick with your guns, believing that you can win your argument; showing compassion partly involves being able to relate; and, than, to a brother, showing motherly (or wife like) qualities to him (or being tender towards him), clearly, given that Wonder Woman is a woman; Wonder Woman was very brash and abrupt, trying to either be warrior like or suggesting that Jason should just be a man, is what any reasonable person should be able to gather here.

She should be aware of the Amazon Pirate raids in order for the Amazons to produce; so, she knows that he was discarded because of the beliefs of the Amazons towards males. From the little information that we have now, he's clearly more acting like a man brat; he obviously needs some tenderness, as a contributing factor.

Not to mention the fact that the "Pirate Raids" have been retconed as false/fake Amazons remember, The Lies.

We're talking about her making excuses for Hippolyta abandoning him as an infant, because of his youth; as such, that was quickly negated, if but for a case of whimsical writing.

No it wasn't'. I didn't see an issue where it was outright retconned; otherwise, why wasn't Hippolyta outright restored to life? But, if so, that still doesn't present this good reason for Jason being abandoned by his birth mother as an infant, from Jason's perspective, to the extent that she can criticize his birth father in such a manner; in the issue where he was abandoned, it was very clearly implied that it was because he was a male and that it was common; and, also, how are they having babies and why are they having babies, if it was completely retconned? I understand that you two would like that to be the case, but it doesn't mean that it is the case; the theme for this story in of itself, Jason being an abandoned infant, because he's a boy should tell most reasonable people something.

From me, when I was able finish editing my writing: 'But, if so, that still doesn't present this good reason for Jason being abandoned by his birth mother as an infant, from Jason's perspective, to the extent that she can criticize his birth father in such a manner; in the issue where he was abandoned, it was very clearly implied that it was because he was a male and that it was common; and, also, how are they having babies and why are they having babies, if it was completely retconned? I understand that you two would like that to be the case, but it doesn't mean that it is the case; the theme for this story in of itself, Jason being an abandoned infant, because he's a boy should tell most reasonable people something.' Oh, even even further still, why is Zeus still being written as her father?

A nice little extra.

After Wonder Woman gains the Upperhand on Grail and Jason Darkseid shows up and begins to manhandle her. Jason then sort of becomes of Good again. Then Zeus shows up to save his children.

Who knew the guy wasn't just a selfish womanizer.

No, her mother wasn't supportive to Jason or any other male infant and doesn't need any benefit of a doubt, at all, as she abandoned a poor, helpless infant new born baby; she selfishly supported Diana for nothing more than pride, from Jason's perspective, as did every other member of her tribe; she's no better than Zeus at all as a parent, and probably actually worse, as her parenting is tainted with bias, while Zeus is impartially selfish. Essentially, Zeus is an adulterous womanizer; his parenting skills are really not the issue, by comparison, especially with the explanation that Wonder Woman just brashly and abruptly dished out to Jason; one reason for the harsh critique, at least in some folks eyes, is because Wonder Woman is supposedly acceptable as a virtuous character with the virtue of compassion, even though she's abrupt and brash with Jason, hasn't been tested with Dr. Psycho, and has shallow personality features, just going by her actions, versus what she says and what other people say or want to believe of her as a character. Jason just have some other issues, as to his behavior towards his sister who he'd just encountered.

Again, Zeus is still her father; apparently, Rucka just did some sloppy empowerment writing to calm the complaints; relative to the New 52, we have no idea what Rucka really accomplished and it essentially just doesn't make any sense, relative a backstory for Diana's backstory; how would Zeus remain her father, but we're supposed to assume that the other stuff is discarded, while the Amazons are having babies, while keeping the girls and doing God knows what to the boys, provided the New 52 stuff is retconned (e.g. cherry picking from a creative backstory for a new backstory that now lacks any direction or purpose besides calming for an empowerment movement)?

Nope i find Wonder Woman really boring

I can still find her boring and go on versus threads with her and state my opinion

I dont

I've given proof each time, including this one; in this one, being brash and abrupt, at a sensitive moment; on other cases, being shallow by action, rather than presumptions; still, others for related reasons, keeping Wonder Woman's dynamic from the book, Dr. Psycho (as her Lex or Joker), as in untested virtues of compassion; each time, my reasons and proof have been clearly stated. And, also, I made clear, I'm talking about post-crisis Wonder Woman going forward, and even more so, New 52 Wonder Woman going forward; pre-crisis Wonder Woman clearly had demonstrated compassion with issue 168 and her interaction with Dr. Psycho, although oh so brief and not expanded upon for something like 50 years now (e.g. and she also had the love circle involving MerBoy).

Again, as I said, they're getting babies from somewhere and discarding the boy infants somehow; given that Zeus is still Wonder Woman's farther, as from their Azz retcon, and Steve is still her significant other, there's no sensible reason to accept that the pirate odysseys aren't true, outside of your fan fic that it has been retconned; the only thing that Rucka essentially did was prove that Wonder Woman was never back on Paradise Island (e.g. and another piece of evidence, she still had the same costume in Rucka's issue 1, and gave some reason that was supposed to appeal to the empowerment movement). Wonder Woman having not actually been on Paradise Island doesn't disprove anything from Azz's origin story, with these things being fact; and, on top of that, one of the Olympians told her that story, if I remember correctly. The current writer's first issue on Jason, as I said, proves that Azz's origin is more likely than not still true to a large extent, just that Wonder Woman was not on the island; he corrected the Rucka 2.0 stuff, although not completely, as of yet. What has no evidence is that Azz was talking about another group of Amazons (e.g. and that was right out of one of your desires for Wonder Woman).

Empathizing with Dr. Psycho has everything to do with Dr. Psycho; it's the pieces of him that eventually shaped him into his current state of mind and/or the reason for the hard way that he no views the world (e.g. and Dr. Psycho hasn't actually rapped anyone, and, if so, he certainly doesn't do it as matter of course or routine; there are quite a few characters much more deserving of such a designation, some of which may actually be current heroes, because they been forgiven for their actions, with empathy being a major part of it); if someone doesn't try to sooth his feelings and make him feel better, versus doing what nearly anybody else can do in ignoring and ostracizing him, clearly, in being no different than your average joe, such a person doesn't deserve a special designation of a virtue saint of compassion, quite obvious; and, clearly, the reason that you mention, I suspect isn't the reason that Wonder Woman hasn't been in another issue 168 in 50 years, I suspect the real reason is his looks, and that's the problem (e.g. and it's obvious, as I've previously mentioned, I'm only focused on Dr. Psycho, not any villain, which you wont get through your head, or be reasonable about); and being brash and abrupt to someone at a sensitive moment also adds to it; sure, a warrior can be compassionate in the sense of laying off someone once they've been stomped to a pulp; however, and at the same time, that person would not be the patron saint for virtue; such a person would barely be a warrior, whereas this Wonder Woman is being portrayed as living a warrior code; pre-crisis Wonder Woman was nothing like that, but still carried out heroic deeds.

And who told you that there is even reason to believe that there are separate factions of Amazons floating out somewhere? That's your desire for the book, not reality; and, I just clearly laid out my position in the matter in my last couple of posts, so, what wont you understand about it? Deal with those points. Even the God of War mantle was minor, concerning what is being done to the male babies and how the Amazons are being impregnated, and such is so obvious to the points at hand.

Great issue this week

Here its stated in this page.

Gallery

I think Diana had har enough if his spoiled nature, I know I did. But she could have been a little more patient I suppose. But in the end she seem to have acted correctly. She did show some understanding, and some calling him out, which was needed

Yeah, but i'm not very happy with it.

Didn't knew that we're in a kindergarten here, also especially funny from someone named after a Super Mary Sue.

@supergoku17: if you find ww boring then why are you so obsessed with her and her threads lmao

Wow people keep proving my point

Is there not something else you can do besides trolling, or is DB Super's quality limbo so frustrating that you need it to feel less miserable?

Nice bait

@dshipp17: Holy crap you've completely confused yourself about what's been happening in New 52 and Rebirth, so I'm going to break it down for you. Note, everything I say is what has been explained in the books. Its fact not assumptions.

The first time Wonder Woman left Themyscira, the gods of Olympus knew that she would be vulnerable to enemies who would try to use Diana's knowledge to gain access to Paradise Island, and through the Island, access to Ares himself. In order to prevent this, the gods implanted false memories into Diana's mind. These false memories were the amazons we saw during her New 52 run, the blonde Hippolyta, the male amazons, the weird looking gods, all of them were false illusions. They weren't real.

The story of Diana being the daughter of Zeus, and the lie about her being made of clay to keep her safe from Hera were true. They weren't part of the illusion. We first realise this in Titans Annual when a parademons eye is used to scan everyone, and one person was shown to be made of clay. That person was Donna Troy, which meant that Diana was a real being. We also know that Diana was born naturally and not from clay with the revelation that Jason actually exists. Because if Jason exists, that means everything Myrina Black told Diana was true, including the fact that she saw with her own eyes Hippolyta giving birth to the twins, again proving Diana is not made of clay. This current issue further proves this point as Zeus himself calls Diana his daughter.

Hippolyta did not give up Jason because she didn't like boys, or because the amazons didn't like male babies, she gave him away because of Hera's wrath. As was already explained in the recent issues (Wonder Woman #35, it is much easier to hide a girl among the amazons than it is to hide a boy. These amazons also do NOT have or make random babies at all. Diana, Jason and Grail were the only babies born on the Island since the creation of the amazons, and since Grail and Jason were taken away, Diana was the only child who grew up on Themyscira. In short, THERE WERE NO ACTUAL BABIES OR CHILDREN ON THE REAL THEMYSCIRA, ONLY THE FAKE ONE. Therefore, the real amazons never raided sailors ships and raped them. There was no pirate Odyssey. SO, no babies, no impregnated amazons, no killing and murdering, no leaving the island. None of that happened to the real Diana.

As for Diana's "bondage weakness". The bracelets don't work the way you think. You are suggesting that because removing them powers Diana up, they should also power her down. That's not how they work. The bracelets are only suppressors. Diana's is at her normal power level without the bracelets. When she wears them, they contain a portion of her power. This means the bracelets there is no power up. And the power down already exists. When we see her now, in Justice League, or her own series flying around fighting normally, that is her powered down state. She is in her natural state, her full power when they are off. Diana's powers are not tied to her costume, they are tied to her divine origin.

If you have questions or are confused, ask. But don't reply to me and try to deny anything I have said as everything I've stated has been clearly revealed in the pages of the comics. If you are confused by the story you should re-read the run carefully and you will work it out eventually.

"As for Diana's "bondage weakness". The bracelets don't work the way you think. You are suggesting that because removing them powers Diana up, they should also power her down. That's not how they work. The bracelets are only suppressors. Diana's is at her normal power level without the bracelets. When she wears them, they contain a portion of her power. This means the bracelets there is no power up. And the power down already exists. When we see her now, in Justice League, or her own series flying around fighting normally, that is her powered down state. She is in her natural state, her full power when they are off. Diana's powers are not tied to her costume, they are tied to her divine origin."

Where did you get this part from?

@agent41 said:

@dshipp17 said:

@klaus said:

@dshipp17: Holy crap you've completely confused yourself about what's been happening in New 52 and Rebirth, so I'm going to break it down for you. Note, everything I say is what has been explained in the books. Its fact not assumptions.

The first time Wonder Woman left Themyscira, the gods of Olympus knew that she would be vulnerable to enemies who would try to use Diana's knowledge to gain access to Paradise Island, and through the Island, access to Ares himself. In order to prevent this, the gods implanted false memories into Diana's mind. These false memories were the amazons we saw during her New 52 run, the blonde Hippolyta, the male amazons, the weird looking gods, all of them were false illusions. They weren't real.

The story of Diana being the daughter of Zeus, and the lie about her being made of clay to keep her safe from Hera were true. They weren't part of the illusion. We first realise this in Titans Annual when a parademons eye is used to scan everyone, and one person was shown to be made of clay. That person was Donna Troy, which meant that Diana was a real being. We also know that Diana was born naturally and not from clay with the revelation that Jason actually exists. Because if Jason exists, that means everything Myrina Black told Diana was true, including the fact that she saw with her own eyes Hippolyta giving birth to the twins, again proving Diana is not made of clay. This current issue further proves this point as Zeus himself calls Diana his daughter.

Hippolyta did not give up Jason because she didn't like boys, or because the amazons didn't like male babies, she gave him away because of Hera's wrath. As was already explained in the recent issues (Wonder Woman #35, it is much easier to hide a girl among the amazons than it is to hide a boy. These amazons also do NOT have or make random babies at all. Diana, Jason and Grail were the only babies born on the Island since the creation of the amazons, and since Grail and Jason were taken away, Diana was the only child who grew up on Themyscira. In short, THERE WERE NO ACTUAL BABIES OR CHILDREN ON THE REAL THEMYSCIRA, ONLY THE FAKE ONE. Therefore, the real amazons never raided sailors ships and raped them. There was no pirate Odyssey. SO, no babies, no impregnated amazons, no killing and murdering, no leaving the island. None of that happened to the real Diana.

As for Diana's "bondage weakness". The bracelets don't work the way you think. You are suggesting that because removing them powers Diana up, they should also power her down. That's not how they work. The bracelets are only suppressors. Diana's is at her normal power level without the bracelets. When she wears them, they contain a portion of her power. This means the bracelets there is no power up. And the power down already exists. When we see her now, in Justice League, or her own series flying around fighting normally, that is her powered down state. She is in her natural state, her full power when they are off. Diana's powers are not tied to her costume, they are tied to her divine origin.

If you have questions or are confused, ask. But don't reply to me and try to deny anything I have said as everything I've stated has been clearly revealed in the pages of the comics. If you are confused by the story you should re-read the run carefully and you will work it out eventually.

"As for Diana's "bondage weakness". The bracelets don't work the way you think. You are suggesting that because removing them powers Diana up, they should also power her down. That's not how they work. The bracelets are only suppressors. Diana's is at her normal power level without the bracelets. When she wears them, they contain a portion of her power. This means the bracelets there is no power up. And the power down already exists. When we see her now, in Justice League, or her own series flying around fighting normally, that is her powered down state. She is in her natural state, her full power when they are off. Diana's powers are not tied to her costume, they are tied to her divine origin."

Where did you get this part from?

That panel doesn't prove what he is saying at all and it's basically trying to use New 52 material when it benefits you and saying that it's canceled, when it doesn't benefit you; as I said, that could be used to make Marston material the rightful canon again and chaining her bracelets should weaken her; as I said, if they can keep Superman having a Kyptonite, Wonder Woman should have her weaknesses, as well.

@agent41 said:

@dshipp17 said:

@agent41 said:

@dshipp17 said:

@klaus said:

@dshipp17: Holy crap you've completely confused yourself about what's been happening in New 52 and Rebirth, so I'm going to break it down for you. Note, everything I say is what has been explained in the books. Its fact not assumptions.

The first time Wonder Woman left Themyscira, the gods of Olympus knew that she would be vulnerable to enemies who would try to use Diana's knowledge to gain access to Paradise Island, and through the Island, access to Ares himself. In order to prevent this, the gods implanted false memories into Diana's mind. These false memories were the amazons we saw during her New 52 run, the blonde Hippolyta, the male amazons, the weird looking gods, all of them were false illusions. They weren't real.

The story of Diana being the daughter of Zeus, and the lie about her being made of clay to keep her safe from Hera were true. They weren't part of the illusion. We first realise this in Titans Annual when a parademons eye is used to scan everyone, and one person was shown to be made of clay. That person was Donna Troy, which meant that Diana was a real being. We also know that Diana was born naturally and not from clay with the revelation that Jason actually exists. Because if Jason exists, that means everything Myrina Black told Diana was true, including the fact that she saw with her own eyes Hippolyta giving birth to the twins, again proving Diana is not made of clay. This current issue further proves this point as Zeus himself calls Diana his daughter.

Hippolyta did not give up Jason because she didn't like boys, or because the amazons didn't like male babies, she gave him away because of Hera's wrath. As was already explained in the recent issues (Wonder Woman #35, it is much easier to hide a girl among the amazons than it is to hide a boy. These amazons also do NOT have or make random babies at all. Diana, Jason and Grail were the only babies born on the Island since the creation of the amazons, and since Grail and Jason were taken away, Diana was the only child who grew up on Themyscira. In short, THERE WERE NO ACTUAL BABIES OR CHILDREN ON THE REAL THEMYSCIRA, ONLY THE FAKE ONE. Therefore, the real amazons never raided sailors ships and raped them. There was no pirate Odyssey. SO, no babies, no impregnated amazons, no killing and murdering, no leaving the island. None of that happened to the real Diana.

As for Diana's "bondage weakness". The bracelets don't work the way you think. You are suggesting that because removing them powers Diana up, they should also power her down. That's not how they work. The bracelets are only suppressors. Diana's is at her normal power level without the bracelets. When she wears them, they contain a portion of her power. This means the bracelets there is no power up. And the power down already exists. When we see her now, in Justice League, or her own series flying around fighting normally, that is her powered down state. She is in her natural state, her full power when they are off. Diana's powers are not tied to her costume, they are tied to her divine origin.

If you have questions or are confused, ask. But don't reply to me and try to deny anything I have said as everything I've stated has been clearly revealed in the pages of the comics. If you are confused by the story you should re-read the run carefully and you will work it out eventually.

"As for Diana's "bondage weakness". The bracelets don't work the way you think. You are suggesting that because removing them powers Diana up, they should also power her down. That's not how they work. The bracelets are only suppressors. Diana's is at her normal power level without the bracelets. When she wears them, they contain a portion of her power. This means the bracelets there is no power up. And the power down already exists. When we see her now, in Justice League, or her own series flying around fighting normally, that is her powered down state. She is in her natural state, her full power when they are off. Diana's powers are not tied to her costume, they are tied to her divine origin."

Where did you get this part from?

That panel doesn't prove what he is saying at all and it's basically trying to use New 52 material when it benefits you and saying that it's canceled, when it doesn't benefit you; as I said, that could be used to make Marston material the rightful canon again and chaining her bracelets should weaken her; as I said, if they can keep Superman having a Kyptonite, Wonder Woman should have her weaknesses, as well.

Ruka run directly said that the blonde hypolita and those amazons were fake, an illusion. While nothing has been said about the bracelets being a weakness. They make her stronger when she takes them off. And if nobody has said anything about this, then it's still cannon.

That's beside the point of the discussion; the discussion is whether they should make her weaker, when they're chained together, as the other component of Marston material, since she gets stronger when they're removed; the poster who I was responding to than made up a story based on what he wanted to see versus what is actually there, as I was explaining.

I have to say you dont make a whole lot of sense here. Why is Diana a Xena rip-off in this case? Becuase she naturally gets upset over her own half-brother turned on her, beat her up and intends to hand her over to Darkseid for consumption?

Marston's take and kinks have not made a return, and they never really have after his passing. Furthermore Diana's powers are not vested in her outfit, if anything, as said by others, the power dampening effect of the bracelets is likely the only power thats in her clothes (also... are we really suggesting the villains should have stripped her down to her underpants before tying her up?). Anyways, Diana being held prisoner like this is very likely just a nod to the past, because Robinson happens to have a soft-spot for that sort of thing.

Jason I agree is not making a very good case for himself. He's angry and bitter over stuff he's never had, rather than enjoying what he did have and has now been lead astray by Grail the punk rocker like a dimwit.