No thoughts on WW Rebirth #15?

I thought it was dope!

When this is all over we'll have the PERFECT foundation for Wonder Woman.

U think I will be back online next week. I can than give spoilers. Either late next week or the week after.

I've read all of rebirth and I don't know whats even going on. It's boring as hell and there is no action.

Sounds like it's not for you, that's cool. Rucka writes like a novelist it takes him a while to get where he's going. That approach isn't for everybody.

To me it's more substantial than what we getting with Azzarello, a lot of puns where all the characters get to shine but Wonder Woman, who gets rescued by one of them every other issue. His "judicious use of her powers" was even slower and the endless baby search more boring.

Rucka writes for the long haul, he's setting up a permanent foundation for other writers to use going forward.

Guys, I agree with some extent :( I've read everything up to #15, and I still don't know what the hell is going on. This is just a confusingly written comic.

You guys can't be paying attention. That's the thing with Rucka you have to pay attention.

I might re read it and pay my utmost attention this time. Feel like I'm missing out.

It's pretty straight-forward from my perspective...and I say that as someone who actually has GAPS in my WW Rebirth collection.

I have to say that I really like the way that Rucka is weaving so many of Wonder Woman's Rogues together, Cale, Cheetah, Cyber, Poison, all building up to another Ares encounter. This is the kind of unity that I live for in comics.

I'm a bit taken back by the lackluster action in the series so far, the fights with Urzkartaga and Ares were just complete misses, so much build up with little payoff.

Buuuuuut . . . . the character development of supporting characters is bar none the best I've seen in a long time. I'm diggin' Steve's character and Etta's savvy and the way that she corrects Steve in this latest issue after he goes after Barbra was excellent, loved that scene.

Buuuuuut . . . . this great peripheral character development seems to be at the sacrifice of Diana's own development and that is not cool in my perspective. Perhaps a case of too many characters? Too much attention payed to the periphery at the expense of the main character.

All you need to know is the New 52 was a lie that's driven Diana nuts. Who started the lie and why are the big mysteries. Before becoming Wonder Woman Diana was bitten by a snake from an evil tree that suddenly appeared on Themyscira. That tree has been linked to Ares and this is the snake Diana imagines she's talking to in the mental hospital. The tree reappears on Themyscira and Queen Hippolyta knows it's a bad sign so she calls in her troops to fight.

Ares is looking for Themyscira for an unknown reason, Godwatch is too. Godwatch consists of Dr. Veronica Cale, Dr. Poison and her mercenaries, Dr. Cyber, Circe and once Cheetah, as well as some mysterious twins who are probable Veronica Cale's dogs Terror and Panic, who in actuality are probably Ares' children Phobos and Deimos. They're trying to find Wonder Woman because they're hoping she'll lead them to Themyscira.

Steve has hidden Diana in a sanitarium for her safety while he, Etta and Dr. Minerva hold up in a safehouse that has been breached. Etta and Steve go on the run while Dr. Minerva surrenders to Godwatch hoping to find answers. Etta seeks out an old friend to aid them that turns out to be Ferdinand the Minotaur who was Diana's friend and chef during Rucka's first run on Wonder Woman.

Thank you! This'll make it a bit easier to digest but I intend on rereading the series either way with this in mind =)

It's well written and interesting for the most part, but it's getting a little slow paced. Rucka has, IMO, made it a tad too convoluted with his adding every female villain he could think of into the story.

This is hardly "every female villain he could think of" this is Wonder Woman's rogues gallery...Cheetah, Circe, Dr. Cyber, Veronica Cale and Dr. Poison. Villains we've said should be updated for years and Rucka is giving it to us. He's set up a revamped Villainy Inc. with unlimited story potential.

Rereading it once again and damn, it's good when you actually pay attention. Very well written. Straight forward, but very well done.

However, I still don't get a certain aspect of the story:

1. Diana's friend is telling her that she's seen the world beyond Themyscira and came back... yet in that very same conversation, she says "if you leave for Earth, I would never be able to see you again, and I can't bear that." So... if someone leaves Themyscira, can they come back or not? Lol.
2. Wonder Woman KNEW leaving Themyscira that she was making a sacrifice and that she wouldn't be able to return. Why is she so surprised about not being able to return? This is like the people who voted for Trump, then said "I VOTED FOR YOU AND NOW OBAMACARE IS OFF THE TABLE." Seriously, you need Obamacare yet you vote for Trump? Lol.

Otherwise, very enjoyable.

It wasn't an easy read, I need to read it again.

However I agree that this rebirth series has been great in bringing back old characters, Barbara Ann, Dr Veronica Cale etc.

The action is however hit and miss. I thought the conclusion to the previous story with Ares was very disappointing TBH. I hope this side of it improves.

I'm sticking with it. Decided at the outset I wanted to collect Rucka's run, as I wasn't buying comics during this previous run in the 2000s. I think these are thoughtful comics and not for the whizz bang loving reader.

It's 6 months in now and I am about ready for Rucka to start answering some of the many questions this series keeps asking. 6 months and we still don't really know what is actually going on or why any of this is happening or what Cale and her crew is after.

That's all this run has been: foundation. Honestly, at this point, I would have preferred if Rucka just did away with the New 52 canon in issue or two. All this feels so unnecessary.

@scorpio_cassadine: okay, I know you understand the concept of hyperbole, so please stop with the literalist interpretation, it gets us nowhere in a discussion. The point of my statement was that I think he's thrown too many villains into the mix for this story. It's getting jumbled and using all of them is diluting them each by not showcasing anyone of them all that strongly. We've learned very little about Cale, Poison, Circe or even Cheetah despite an entire arc dedicated to her. Yes I am happy he's using her established rogues, but I prefer that he took more time and developed them each more substantially rather than just throwing them all into one big story. And moreover we don't really know who is behind Diana's memory issues, is it yet another rogue? Ares? Psycho? Or is it something totally different? If that's the case what point does Godwatch serve to the story?

Don't get me wrong I think it's great work overall, but it's a little convoluted which, IMO is slowing the pace of the story down.

I really hope he doesn't just toss out Azzarello's run, I mean yeah, there are things in that book that were considered crap like the Amazons being serial killers but the First Born story was actually pretty awesome and his depictions of the gods were pretty interesting as well. I loved the way his Ares was portrayed. If this whole story is just saying the New 52 never happened then it's really a slap to the face to not just the readers but to a fellow author.

Hasn't Azzarello's story has already been expunged for the most part? Aren't these the lies that she's trying to get to the bottom of?

In Azzarello's run she grew up with other girls and was teased and harassed and new born males were traded to Hephaestus for weapons.

This 1 panel and 2 caption boxes dismisses almost all of Azzarello's structure. . . . there were no other children but Diana, Grail, and Jason, curiously, all born on the same night.

Perhaps the events with First Born and the Gods can be salvaged but her experience on the island is in question during Azz - Finch.

In Darkseid War Diana was the natural daughter of Zeus (and blonde-fake-Hippolyta) however in Rebirth, rather than inheriting her powers by birth, they were vested upon her by the Gods (presumably). Perhaps we all assumed the Gods bestowed their blessings on Wonder Woman but for all we know that may not have been what happened as we didn't actually see it happen which did strike me as a bit suspicious…

@archizooom: true, they may have simply "unlocked" existing gifts in some way. Although I do suspect it's probably going to be some kind of combination of Perez origin and Azzarello's ... curious to see where they decide to go to be honest.

No offense taken. I'm quite honoured to count myself among the fans who have the paitence for this series, it's well written, it's compelling, and it's eroding an era I personally despised. For me it was fundimentally not Wonder Woman and I'm glad to see the back of it.

@csg_cl: In Justice League Batman mentioned that she's quote unquote "powered by the Gods" so there's that, though I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say outside her eponymous book, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that her powers are her own

@archizooom: I've always preferred self-empowered v. God Blessings. Still wish they would bring back Amazonian training as the source of her power, but I think they have in their heads that this somehow limits WW to more human levels so they go with divine powers one way or another.

@csg_cl: Yeah me too, not a fan of the blessings, Earth-1 is hands down my favorite WW origin story, I really wish Wonder Woman and the Amazons were a bit more autonomous from the Gods

Introducing every villain individually would go even slower. The convolution you're complaining about is what provides the excitement. It's all about mystery and the interaction between characters, that's Rucka's style on Wonder Woman.

Admittedly that style isn't for everyone. During Rucka's last run his detractors called it the Wonder West Wing and boring, because it was steeped in the "walk and talk" interactions that are the hallmark of Aaron Sorkin dramas. Personally I loved the West Wing and Rucka's last run and the way much of the action was foreshadowed, propelled and expounded upon through conversation.

There's a lot of tell going on, but if you're patient enough to wait for it, the show (bombastic superhero action) will come too.

@scorpio_cassadine: I'm not complaining about anything, simply offering an opinion on the state of the storyline. Personally I think this would be an even better comic if he wasn't throwing in half-rebooted classic villains into the mix and at the same time as trying to make his own creation (Veronica) relevant. As I've now said about 3 times, I like the book, it's exceptionally well written, but there is room for improvement and that has nothing to do (at least for me) with "action" and everything to do with too many side stories. Bringing in a new version of Drs Poison and Cyber with almost nothing in the way of background just feels forced. I could be intrigued by what he's doing with them, but they feel shoehorned into this plot line.

@archizooom: agreed ... could do with the Amazons being autonomous or even just more like standard Asgaurdians or Atlanteans and not turned into some pseudo religious society that always feels beholden to the gods. I have always preferred the Amazons when they are totally self made. The original idea IMO was always the best, showcasing how a female only society would/could be dramatically more advanced ... too much mixing in of the Gods just feels like the Amazons don't have as much agency in their own developments

It takes time. Rucka will give us backstories for everyone eventually, they won't be "half-rebooted" for long. In the interim we have intrigue. I'm sure before it's all over Maru and her team of mercenaries will get closer to what we've seen previously from Dr. Poison. Adrianna's transformation into Dr. Cyber takes place in today's issue, judging by the preview.

The room for improvement you're talking about would only make things standard and boring. The fact this isn't typical linear storytelling is what makes it so interesting, it's like that reverse episode of Seinfeld on steroids.

@super-wonder said:

Hasn't Azzarello's story has already been expunged for the most part? Aren't these the lies that she's trying to get to the bottom of?

In Azzarello's run she grew up with other girls and was teased and harassed and new born males were traded to Hephaestus for weapons.

This 1 panel and 2 caption boxes dismisses almost all of Azzarello's structure. . . . there were no other children but Diana, Grail, and Jason, curiously, all born on the same night.

Perhaps the events with First Born and the Gods can be salvaged but her experience on the island is in question during Azz - Finch.

He should have undone that also. WW should be the only child. No scratch that. There actually are ways I wouldn't mind other kids but do away with being born on the same night and get rid of Grail and Jason.

@scorpio_cassadine: there is a difference between standard and boring and well structured. This feels like Rucka bit off more than he could chew with the two separate storylines and now (at least) 4 major villains with unclear roles and backgrounds. I was disappointed with the conclusion of Year One, it was a good story, but it just sort of stopped rather than had an ending. I suspect we'll soon be seeing the tie-in between Y1 and the current villain-soup arc and I'm expecting at least Ares to reappear soon. Hell at this point I'm expecting Dr. Psycho and Silver Swan to pop in before this is over.

You are making many of the same arguments Azzarello's most ardent fans made a few years ago, and that is valid, I'm just wanting a cleaner story with more attention to each villain. And to Diana herself. Azzarello's run got a lot of grief for how much attention it paid to the supporting cast, but Rucka has almost completely excluded Diana in favor of incorporating Steve and Etta and now it looks like he's bringing back the Minnetaur, makes me wonder if he's just trying to re-establish his entire cast from his first run.

I'd like that. Ferdinand is a fan favorite and Rucka promised he'd try to fit him into the story. This is no different from his first run where he had Circe, Veronica Cale, Dr. Psycho, Cheetah, the Gorgons and Medousa all intertwined and working together to make Wonder Woman's life miserable.

It's unlike Azzarello who introduced all new characters, with knock-offs of established Amazons and robbed the New Gods of Orion, all so they could work their own agendas that often didn't involve Diana.

These are all members of Wonder Woman's mythos that needed the development that Rucka is providing. It's entirely different.

@scorpio_cassadine: it's only different if you choose to see it as such. The latest issue gave us a dribble of Cyber's background and introduced a precursor to Ares showing up, but Diana had no significant role and the story is dominated by Rucka's own creation, who's starting to look more like a rebooted Paula Von Gunther, and knock off-ish creation of Cyber. But we got exactly nowhere in moving the story forward, instead we had yet another flashback. At this rate it's going to be another year of bi-weekly issues to get through this storyline.

It's been a nightmare getting my own internet again, but I finally got back online; may be a few days or another month before my internet is back to normal, through different service providers; this is a very slow connection but I got it to just get back online; may get the better connection tomorrow or in the days to come. So, I got to catch up on this issue, 14, and 16, than I'll give spoilers; probably better with 16 by now.

@dshipp17: *spoiler* ... it's still not Dr. Psycho

Love this image of Diana barefoot. But, nothing happened with Diana until she spoke.

And, going back to my exchanges in Wonder Woman 13, we've confirmation that we were seeing Veronica being spoken to as Adrianna; but, Cheetah thinks Adrianna is Dr. Cyber; looks like either Cheetah is a stealthy traitor or has a guilty concious about her association with Cale.

And, the good thing from this issue is the entrance of Ferdinand; maybe, when I go through Wonder Woman 16, we'll have some background of his relationship with Wonder Woman; almost as if we're approaching issue 1 of Rucka 1.0, a good thing from my perspective, except, I hope the diving into Greek Myth is left out and back to the New 52.

Yeah, disappointing for another issue of no Dr. Psycho; but, we got what looks like the entrance of Ferdinand.

So you mean to tell me you're complaining about certain character's lack of development, then you get that development, but you're still complaining? I can't...

@csg_cl: Yeah I want the Amazons to build a paradise that bears witness to what can be accomplished in a prosperous, peaceful environment free of the prejudices that weigh humanity down. For me it's less about gender and more about the kind of cultural environment that they have - a hotbed of genius, a rich, fertile environment where love thrives and hatred cannot take root. Furthermore, the Amazons would feel no shame in collecting knowledge from Men's World, the Athenians borrowed knowledge from other cultures and built upon it, that's how Greece came to be the cradle of western civilization. In my headcanon, the Amazons sort of followed that model

@scorpio_cassadine: no, I'm not actually complaining. I'm stating what I believe could have been done better. There is a rather large difference.

com·plain /kəmˈplān/ verb 1. to express dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; find fault:

@scorpio_cassadine: not seeing something as perfect is not at all the same thing as complaining. You're acting as if I had nothing but negatives to offer on the comic when in fact I've stated numerous times that I like the book. It's NOT perfect, it's very good, but it has flaws. Cope with the fact that not everyone has your opinion.

It's not that you have a different opinion, it's that your opinion is wrong. lol What you see as a liability is truly an asset. The man went to school for this, he has a Master of Fine Arts degree and won 3 Eisner Awards. He knows what he's doing.