Lets discuss Wonder Woman #47 "SPOILER"

I have to say guys, this issue was the best I have read from Finch so far, especially since Mr Finch wasn't on it. The original costume was back. Diana displayed super speed, and awesome striking and throwing power. We now know that the Amazons were behaving badly because of Diana's GOW powers. We know that she is stronger and faster because of the GOW upgrade, than she used to be. And the opening page where she was sitting without her bracelets or shoes, on the beach, smiling at Ares' return was pretty cool.

Is that a good thing, that the slaughter of her kin wasn't just the result of Wonder Woman's wishy-washy ruling, she also inadvertently sparked the Amazons into committing murder. There's so much blood in her hands, so much death, Wonder Woman's such an incapable hero, she's always crying, I can't wait to see the back of Mr. and Ms. Finch to be honest

Glad she's finally out of that awful Post Convergeance outfit.

@brunnhilde: It wasn't her fault. She wasn't born a full god and didn't have anyone to teach her how to control the powers of War. Look at the alternative had she not taken the powers. First Born would have them, he would have killed all of the Olympians, including Diana, then the rest of the Earth would be next, and I doubt anyone could have stopped him once he gained the Greek Pantheons power.

At least we can now look to a brighter future for Paradise Island. Also Wonder Woman is an extremely capable hero. She led the entire world in an offensive strike against Brainiac's forces, even managing to push them back. She took down Mongul, and came up with the intelligent idea to use Warworld as a weapon. She came up with the idea to blind Darkseid during his invasion, and she instigated the plan by taking out the first eye, paving the way for Arthur to take out the second.

She did defeat the Cheetah all on her own. The same Cheetah that was blitzing Superman and the League. Also, in the Superman/WW Annual, it showed that she can sense trouble wherever it is, and can fly there immediately to stop it. One of her new powers as War.

@klaus: Donna, who btw came out of nowhere, actually gave Wonder Woman a heads-up on her plan to cleanse Paradise Island of Men, but Wonder Woman, instead of dealing with the usurper there and then, as any good leader would, agreed to a duel which was to take place in 2 days time. That night Donna rallied her gang and butchered them. To make things worse, the Men, fearing for their safety, had decided to withdraw from Paradise Island but Wonder Woman convinced them so stay. Yes, she got them all killed. And now to top it all off, it was her newfound GoW powers that spurred the amazons into doing it? Wonder Woman, who cries for everything and anything in this run, wept one heartfelt tear for her brothers…

And why is that added strength and speed reason for celebration, with or without her GoW powers she's bound to play second fiddle to Superman, Wonder Woman's rank in the pecking order is and always will be beneath Superman. Even in his current condition, he was more efficient than Wonder Woman during Truth…

I think you are too harsh with diana. From where should diana know that her powers are causing death on particularly her island? There is no single issue in N52 that explains how godly powers are working. We even have no single origin story of the gods. The old hag was the reason why donna slaughtered the men.

SPOILER

She saw how the spartans killed her mother the queen of themyscira and was in love with hippolyta

It was good old revenge. So the real blood is on the old hags hands and not on diana. Really if you don't give the finchs run a chance then don't hate. I can't see the hate on the net to be honest. I don't read green lantern but i am not on the green lantern forums and spread hate.

@arkhamace: does she still have that Godwave or whatever??

no, the gods got all an upgrade and were revived, diana is not the god of war anymore and we were introduced to some more gods just like in the azzarello's run. It's hard to see the hate here because the stories are not so different as azzarello's. If i wouldn't know it better i would say that meredith is trying to copy azzarello or to say it nicer to pay tribute to his legacy. This is the old tactic. People are bored and read only batman(example) and they are trying to make their comic the best because they know they have not the time or money to read all comics.

The sooner the Finche's leave, the sooner there can be a reboot and hopefully Wonder Woman can still be salvaged from this wreck she's been turned into.

what are your arguments? you are only hating without sense. You wrote that like the finchs rebooted WW but azzarello did the start with 3 years. What is wrong on the finchs run to span the story further that azzarello started? They showed a very good way and struggling within diana with her new war powers. If they would avoid that, the story would make less sense. There was hardly another way to defeat the first born. He is the strongest son of zeus. It took Orion, Diana, War and Apollo and he

SPOILER

killed Apollo. Diana would be dead without Highfathers tech saving her. He was tortured, his kidney was eaten in front of his eyes and he had barely skin on his bones but he lived and would have killed all amazons.

@arkhamace: My arguements for getting Finch off the book are thus, that under Finch:

• Diana is depicted as inept, indecisive, overly aggressive and flat out weak. None of which clicks with the portrayal that Azzarello gave.
• The god-powers she got is now a massive issue to Diana, when Azzarello based his whole run on how little changes like this actually meant for Diana, but thats a point most DC writers have missed.
• The effect of being a god is also a complete 180 from what Azzarello did, his Gods did not cause or directly govern the things they were in charge of, the just represented them. Otherwise the sun would have gone out with the death of Apollo.
• And then there's the Amazons and Donna, first Finch completely butchers their character, then litterally butchers most of their sons and brothers... and for what? Because she felt it was a loose end she needed to tie up. And this was before this most recent issue where all the blood of Donna and her posse had shed ended up on Diana's hands because she now (suddenly) influence people she is close to.
• Then theres the most recent story about Diana getting her face kicked in by a whiny brat revealed to be a pawn of an immensely bizzare and ooc goddess of peace that appears to have murdered the Fates for no good reason, who's entire existence is apparently now hung up on Diana playing a part... despite Ares not having given a shit about his job for the past 15 years or so.

@outside_85 said:

@arkhamace: My arguements for getting Finch off the book are thus, that under Finch:

• Diana is depicted as inept, indecisive, overly aggressive and flat out weak. None of which clicks with the portrayal that Azzarello gave.
• The god-powers she got is now a massive issue to Diana, when Azzarello based his whole run on how little changes like this actually meant for Diana, but thats a point most DC writers have missed.
• The effect of being a god is also a complete 180 from what Azzarello did, his Gods did not cause or directly govern the things they were in charge of, the just represented them. Otherwise the sun would have gone out with the death of Apollo.
• And then there's the Amazons and Donna, first Finch completely butchers their character, then litterally butchers most of their sons and brothers... and for what? Because she felt it was a loose end she needed to tie up. And this was before this most recent issue where all the blood of Donna and her posse had shed ended up on Diana's hands because she now (suddenly) influence people she is close to.
• Then theres the most recent story about Diana getting her face kicked in by a whiny brat revealed to be a pawn of an immensely bizzare and ooc goddess of peace that appears to have murdered the Fates for no good reason, who's entire existence is apparently now hung up on Diana playing a part... despite Ares not having given a shit about his job for the past 15 years or so.

1 - No, she just saw enough death that she tries to prevent further deaths, her character is a very realistic behaviour. You only have an issue with her because you like a powerful strong aggressive wonder woman with no remorse. Just because you prefer another story doesn't mean the story you got is bad.

2 - Her god powers were not an issue because the focus on the story was the war against first born. There was an all out war everywhere.

3 - We have learned that the "gods" are no real gods but just powerful representers with little control of this nature force. Maybe because people stopped believing in them.

4 - The story was just spun further. That the male amazons were killed is very realistic as you can see on azzarello's run where the female amazons killed their men, whom they had *** before just to be pregnant.

5 - He had a very powerful weapon named godkiller. Its very wise to be cautious. Diana is the princess of the amazons, yes she could be a bloodlusty little *** but she is also the only one with connection to the outside world and is a part of the justice league and had a male boyfriend. It's only realistic that she tries to prevent further killing by talking sense into someone. This is very realistic behaviour. You would prefer that she would punch him to death like Donna.

The story is good. Its on azzarello's level and a drama. You just prefer a more violent and strong confident diana. That the gods were revived is a very good second victory over first born. You must deal with it or just stop reading wonder woman. This is how comics work, every one can die and will be revived.

@agent41

let's not forget finch artwork is a fresh new direction for the book. Its no cartoony artwork anymore like chiangs and the most important reason is we have 6 books azzarello and 2 books finch. Its unfair to say azzarello had a more cohesive.

@arkhamace: thanks :)

no problem :) it was not 100 percent clear but i think she lost them because ares was revived. But in issue 47 hippolyta says she can't enter the temple of hera because she is a god so maybe she has still her powers.

@agent41

what is disappointing? should she burn entire villages as god of war? that would be against the justice league's credo. you say she is less but don't describe why or what.

• You misunderstand something; It's not that things have been changed that bothers me about Finch, its that they've done such an appalling job at it.
• We must have been reading different books then. Diana may have made mistakes during Azzarello's run, but atleast she always did something and did it with the right intentions. Under Finch shes standing around talking with the air.
• And what does that matter?
• Yes that often happens when the entire universe is rebooted, Azzarello however left enough of his up in the air that Finch could have done something other than turn them all into monsters.
• Which is irrelevant, this is about Finchs handling of the material at her disposal.
• As opposed to Finch crushing her under things Azzarello's Diana mostly ignored.
• What has that to do with anything I've said here?
• Azzarello made a shovel, when he handed it to Finch the first thing she did was hit herself over the head with it; This is about what Finch is doing.
• Better story, more likable and compelling characters, better enemies, better art and he actually cared about the characters whereas Meredith lets her stories be dictated by what David would like to draw.

1. Except it is bad, and anyone with the slightest knowledge about Diana will tell you so. You want an example of how to do Diana being passive against someone throwing a tantrum? The go out and find the Simone issue where Diana is trying to calm down a Khund GL, what Finch did was just giving her a massive thrashing for nothing.
2. Which had no effect or influence on anyone through Diana, Diana was not driving people into a frenzy during the fight, neither did her eyes bleed at any time during the full year between Ares' dead and the end of the run.
3. Define what a 'real god' is. And if people's level of belief in them had any effect on them, why weren't they weaker? Why haven't they tried to change that problem? And why was it they still appeared to operate at full capacity if no one felt they mattered?
4. Sex isn't a swearword, you can use it. Based on what exactly? Diana practically based her inauguration speech on how the Amazons should leave their fears in the past and embrace their fellow Amazons whom they then fought and died alongside when the First Born attacked.
5. No, that was Deathstroke that had the Godkiller and it was a sword. No it is not, not when its so damn clear that whiny little shit was not going to stop and even intended to kill her, that's the point where Diana should have gotten off her ass and lamped some sense into the entitled little shit. No the fight with Donna was a true anticlimax of her getting roped and then immediately loose any and all will to fight.

Finch run is nowhere close to Azzarello's, not in writing, art, plot, character development (of which there isn't any so far in Finchs) or in any way that makes a run great.

Yes, I prefer a strong and confident Diana, thats why I prefer Azzarellos writing of her, if I wanted a violent moron I'd read Finchs'.

Good? You mean a good way to rob Azzarello's run of it's impact.

I stopped after the first story was over because I couldn't stomach Finchs crap any longer. And so far not previews or what people have said of it since has made me regret that.

Yes and in this case it's Finchs run that needs to die, the sooner the better.

your reply to agent41 is very emotional and not rational.

1 - diana got no thrashing, she had just a passive behaviour which was on purpose for the story. stop saying that this is bad story only because you prefer another wonder woman...

2 - another writer another ideas. you can easily explain that with time for the transformation. you are throwing hot air to justify your opinion

3 - real god = the sun is dead if apollo dies. maybe they were not weaker? maybe they tried and failed? who knows. Read the issues yourself and answer yourself your questions.

4 - it was a truce to defeat first born.

5 - you are getting emotional. diana had compassion for him and tried to make him a friend. this is what a real leader would do and no henchman. it is a defeat if you make your enemies a friend against a bigger enemy.

Azzarello's impact is still there. Just skip the finch's run and don't use swear words. We are on a forum and not on the street. Wannabe WW fans like you should die(metaphor) because you are damaging wonder woman. Its this behaviour of fans, who live in the past that destroyed superman.

Oh look, more of the "I'm more of a fan than you since your opinion isn't the same as mine!" Now with metaphorical calls for death. That's just great...

you are very misleading what i wrote -.- i don't like such people, who write nothing to the context and are throwing oil to the fire... it is because of such behaviour that there is no room for normal dialogue. Outside is very emotional and sad that the finchs run should die so i said that fans like him should die but not that he as a person. He can be the kindest but with another opinion.

Since you consider Finchs writing to be gripping, I am going to take that as a 'I don't get it'

1. Didn't she? Then what was she doing on the ground covered in her own blood? I am saying it's a bad story because it's a bad story, and I will continue to do so untill it is not, deal with it.
2. Hot air you say and having just aired a personal theory you have no proof of being fact.
3. So basically you have nothing to offer.
4. Was it now. Sounds like more hot air from you, because there was certainly no mention of any truce before you said it here.
5. Here is a clue: Diana is not Jesus. And no, a real leader also knows when it's time to put ones foot down. But since Finchs' Diana didn't appear to know when this was, she'd probably just be dead.

It's slowly being watered out by an unworthy successor that had 2 issues of comics written before she took over. And I will skip it, hopefully it will be over soon, because a lot of people are not happy with the book as it is now.

Oh and dont call me a wannabe when you cant even keep track of what book you are reading.

you can take what you want , its just not true.

1 - I can deal with it and you said yourself that he was just a whiny little boy but i said he is dangerous because of his godkiller bow. I only call it the godkiller bow. He caught her by surprise and the toughest enemy if taken by surprise can go down. Its a plot device story and the reason batman can take the whole justice league himself.

2 - Because the discussion you started has no answers, there are no answers, we have to wait for the new issues. Oh an you started this discussion and the hot air to prove that your opinion is right.

3 - you have nothing to offer and started questions with no answers. Look point 2.

4 - This is creativity. You could see bad things everywhere but good things as well. As i said i don't go in green lantern forums and say its a star wars copy.

5 - yeah and maybe he has a friend with powers like first born. its not really important because the writer decided something else and you can't deal with that and are running emotional on this thread.

I know very well which book i read but you seem to read the wrong book ;)

Things haven't changed in the Wonder Woman forum on this site, I see.

@ms-lola: I doubt it will change anytime soon unless we get a writer that will cater to the narcissistic fans.

well it is a discussion forum, and this is a discussion. What exactly is supposed to change?

Really? I mean, for Finch this wasn't terrible, but it still suffered from her lack of ability to finish a story without an abrupt ending that doesn't really resolve a story so much as ends it with a series of badly tied bows on it. In this one we get Cheetah running off without any consequences for the murder of many Amazons. Seriously Diana can't catch Cheetah on an island where she has to take a BOATto escape? Even if Cheetah is even faster than she has been before we saw her arrive on a boat.

And does Barbara Minerva really have to say "puurrrrfect" as though this was an episode of Batman 1966 and Julie Newmar just appeared?

@csg_cl: The level of vitriol towards the creators in charge of the character at the moment. I had hoped that'd change, at least a wee bit. Along with commentary that has posters arguing amongst themselves on a personal level. At least there isn't any Superman fans in here laying waste to any feats Wonder Woman has garnered over the last little while. Unless, of course, I'm premature in this declaration.

@somayareece:(sigh) True.

You are certainly premature ... the Superfanboys are always lurking just waiting to jump in. It's a forum, it's the way things always are :)

@csg_cl: It's why I'm huddled up in here, haha. I see a few friendly names here (yours included, of course). (:P)

@agent41: (pulls you into the huddle) Us Wonder Woman fans need to stick together, damn it!

@arkhamace: "Wannabe WW fans like you should die(metaphor) because you are damaging wonder woman." Your words, dude. You say you really meant fans like him should die, but what does that even mean? Passionate fans, ones who curse, ones who are emotional in their responses because they care about a character? Or just ones who happen to disagree with your opinion because they are "ruining Wonder Woman"? I didn't throw oil onto any fire, and I didn't instigate any disagreement that wasn't already taking place. I commented that not much has changed in the state of the WW boards with the exception of the new "fans like you should die(metaphor)".

this posting of yours is better as the last. "Fans" who come in this forum without arguments and start hating about wonder woman and prefer a more heartless person. A woman who can't be woman , who must be like an animal and ruler. Fans who use swear words i don't like either and to be honest you have thrown oil in the fire but fortunately outside didn't jump to the fire.

I can live with outside's opinion and understand him but its too easy to just see one side of the coin.

@ms-lola

yeah we must stick together ! and may be the next issues good issues for everyone.

@ms-lola: :)

A turd is a turd whenever it's in a bin or under your shoe. In this case it's between the readers hands.

1. No the reason Batman can take on the entire Justice League is because he's prepared for months and spent billions of dollars to get ready. Emo lad here by comparison has his anger and he gets a bow, and somehow thats enough to make the regning god of war look like an accountant getting mugged... not the trained from birth warrior we know she is.
2. Oh so it's not hot air from you when all you do is cross your fingers in hope your suggestion actually comes true. We are going to need some lines to keep you from floating away if the air gets any hotter.
3. Says the ill-informed speculant.
4. No it's a poor excuses from a fan thats trying to make something work in their own headcannon rather than stick with whats actually on the pages.
5. What exactly does the First Born has to do with this? yes, the writer (in this case Finch) decided to depict Diana as borderline incompetent both as a ruler, deity and superhero.

Since you cant seem to tell Deathstroke from Wonder Woman I doubt you do.

Like we could list Finch-Diana's 'achievements' so far:

• Failed to protect her brothers from her sisters, resulting in most of their deaths
• Failed to stops the bug people from killing hundreds of villagers, yet let them walk away with it
• Didn't seem to make any headway at all with Donna, now the center of some bizzaro 'Zeus walks in mysterious ways' plot without rhyme or reason
• Is apparently to blame for every little thing thats wrong in the world because she doesn't want to roleplay... inspite of not inspiring anything like that for a year in a group mentioned by Ares had no buisness getting along with one another and one member having tried to kill all of them at one point or another.
• And now this, Cheetah arrives in a flipping boat, kills a dozen Amazons, gets to try her prize and then makes a clean getaway; IN A BOAT.

don't be angry , you are definetly a kind person but it's pointless to discuss this any further because you know where i stand and i know where you stand and lets just accept each others opinions and hope for better issues and i don't read deathstroke because i don't like him. It was just mentioned by hephaesteus. With this in mind if you are happier then you won but my opinion will stand until the finchs disappoint me but i find it very interesting to see a struggling diana. My taste is different then yours. We should not fight each other oh and your arguments are very good and it would be very interesting for me to counter them.

I don't mind Wonder Woman having a bit of a struggle to juggle, in fact I quite like the idea, it's something everybody can relate to, however, I think the point should be that heroes eventually find their footing, beat the odds, perform incredible deeds of heroism, it should be inspiring. Wonder Woman though, she's just on an endless streak of failure, her shortcomings have truly catastrophic consequences, she's just straight up mediocre, reduced to moping and crying all the time

She is still the god of war. I think the other guy thought that because Ares is back, she wasn't the GOW anymore, but she still is. The only way to take a mantle of a god is to kill them.

@csg_cl: To put it into simple terms. When I say it was the best issue. I mean compared to the rest of HER work. I wouldn't even dream of comparing it to anything else.

i don't have a problem with that. Up until now its the only way ;) in comics everything is possible. I don't know why people can't accept that aegeus won round 1. As you could see later diana mastered the situation better without fighting.

Got it! I would agree that this was stronger than most of Finch's previous issues ... which isn't really saying a whole lot!

I also think that the art had a big role to play in it. Unlike Finch's art, which makes it look like she is human while fighting, this artist actually made her look really strong and fast.

@klaus: Finch should stick to monsters ... His human faces are horrible

While reading everyones post...I got tired of all the hate...

@oocmikey: Oh golly, did that upset your modern american sensibilities? what's a delicate hothouse flower doing in such a toxic environment in the first place, you'll wilt!