Justice League Dark

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#1 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

Justice League Dark will be written by James Tynion IV with art by Alvaro Martinez, Raul Fernandez and Brad Anderson.

Justice League Dark‘s roster will consist of Zatanna, Swamp Thing, Man-Bat, Detective Chimp and Wonder Woman (team leader).

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#2 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a part of this I like, and there is a part of this I dont. Diana being on a mystic team is a like, Zatanna being on a mystic team is also a like, said mystic team branching out into the magical corner of the DCU is also a like. Whats less of a like, is the seemingly mandatory inclusion of Constantine (worst team-player in the DCU), the worshiping at the altar of Swamp Thing (who's a great cameo but should go stay in his swamp) and for some bizarre reason that the team is including Man-Bat... which I think is a signs of the Bat-writers mass migrating to the JL corner, add Bat-characters to teams they dont fit on.

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#4 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a part of this I like, and there is a part of this I dont. Diana being on a mystic team is a like, Zatanna being on a mystic team is also a like, said mystic team branching out into the magical corner of the DCU is also a like. Whats less of a like, is the seemingly mandatory inclusion of Constantine (worst team-player in the DCU), the worshiping at the altar of Swamp Thing (who's a great cameo but should go stay in his swamp) and for some bizarre reason that the team is including Man-Bat... which I think is a signs of the Bat-writers mass migrating to the JL corner, add Bat-characters to teams they dont fit on.

I questioned that decision too. Man-bat is a creature of science not magic so what could he bring to this team.

Constantine would probably make a cameo but he's not in the roster.

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#5 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

I questioned that decision too. Man-bat is a creature of science not magic so what could he bring to this team.

Constantine would probably make a cameo but he's not in the roster.

Well... I sort of think Man-Bat is going to play off those old cheesy horror movies where some guy drinks the wrong fluid and turns into a monster, but yeah, he doesn't belong on this team. Azarel who's blasted off into space would be a better fit with St. Dumas and all that... but I suppose Man-Bat is going to be the way into the more science-like encounters.

He wasn't really on the team either during much DeMattis' run, still didn't stop him from taking up half the page space :)

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#6 Posted by The_Kidd (12583 posts) - - Show Bio

Should of gotten someone better than Tynion for this group.

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#7 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_kidd said:

Should of gotten someone better than Tynion for this group.

Any specific reason? I never read any of his work.

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#8 Posted by The_Kidd (12583 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88: I'vs read his Red Hood and Detective Comics, I find his writing to be rather generic.

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#9 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_kidd said:

@masterwitcher88: I'vs read his Red Hood and Detective Comics, I find his writing to be rather generic.

Ah. If you read Robinson's run you'll learn I'd take generic over what we have now.

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#10 Posted by The_Kidd (12583 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88: lol, Robinson Wonder Woman is stil slightly better than Tynion Red Hood.

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#11 Posted by agent41 (16083 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by entropy_aegis (20992 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88: You should be really worried about Tynion. He turned Batman in to a jobber without a story in his own book. He can and may well throw Diana under the bus to prop all tbe other character because in his mind she already has JL, her own solo and a bunch of books coming out later like Earth One, Diana's daughter etc while the others dont so essentially this may well be a case where the writer is just cashing on one character to push others. Tynion has amply demonstrated that on Tec, Abnett follows a similar approach in Titans where Nightwing is a joke.

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#13 Posted by agent41 (16083 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88: You should be really worried about Tynion. He turned Batman in to a jobber without a story in his own book. He can and may well throw Diana under the bus to prop all tbe other character because in his mind she already has JL, her own solo and a bunch of books coming out later like Earth One, Diana's daughter etc while the others dont so essentially this may well be a case where the writer is just cashing on one character to push others. Tynion has amply demonstrated that on Tec, Abnett follows a similar approach in Titans where Nightwing is a joke.

DC does it all the time anyway.

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#14 Posted by entropy_aegis (20992 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41: From time to time,watch it happen every month. Us Batman fans endure it twice a month.

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#15 Posted by TrueThemyscira (402 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are Batman fans in this forum complaining?

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#16 Edited by Archizooom (2207 posts) - - Show Bio

The Comic Book Gods answered my prayers, far out! shame Constantine's not on the roster but maybe he'll join them later. Happy days

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#17 Edited by agent41 (16083 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@agent41: From time to time,watch it happen every month. Us Batman fans endure it twice a month.

No. It happens to her constantly. rebirth has been crap to her most of the time.

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#18 Edited by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41 said:
@entropy_aegis said:

@agent41: From time to time,watch it happen every month. Us Batman fans endure it twice a month.

No. It happens to her constantly. rebirth has been crap to her most of the time.

I was about to say. Happens to us WW fans ALL the time, especially since Nu52. Heaven and Earth forbid the day DC decides to let Diana shine as a powerhouse.

I guarantee anything remotely good that could come out of this Darkseid encounter will be met with great backlash.

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#20 Posted by agent41 (16083 posts) - - Show Bio

@agent41 said:
@entropy_aegis said:

@agent41: From time to time,watch it happen every month. Us Batman fans endure it twice a month.

No. It happens to her constantly. rebirth has been crap to her most of the time.

I was about to say. Happens to us WW fans ALL the time, especially since Nu52. Heaven and Earth forbid the day DC decides to let Diana shine as a powerhouse.

I guarantee anything remotely good that could come out of this Darkseid encounter will be met with great backlash.

They are milking the card of WW being an icon of self empowerment and equality. But for a good amount of time now, they haven't truly embraced it in comics. She never gets to do anything major. I mean, for example. Being shot?, more than once?. The same woman that has COUNTLESS better speed feats than blocking speeding bullets in her catalogue of feats, that could even handle a rain of bullets while being blind?. Anybody thinking that things haven't been bad for the most part since 2011, specially since 2016, is not seeing all the evidence in front of their eyes.

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#21 Posted by Archizooom (2207 posts) - - Show Bio

From Alvaro Martinez's twitter

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Love the cloak

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#22 Posted by jb681131 (3431 posts) - - Show Bio

Awsome

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#23 Posted by Tedirey (3081 posts) - - Show Bio

Where is Shazam and/or Zauriel? They should be on this team too.

But yeah, I'm so excited with this. Diana's magical knowledge and resistance coming into play.

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#24 Posted by Tedirey (3081 posts) - - Show Bio

It looks like Chimp is holding the Sword of Night. Maybe we can have a new Nightmaster

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#25 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

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#26 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@tedirey: She's also the most powerful member of the team, close second is Swamp Thing. So we might actually get some cool feats.

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#27 Posted by entropy_aegis (20992 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88: @agent41: You might well be revising your definition of "all the time" soon enough.

@truethemyscira:Dont worry chances are Wonder Woman fans will complaining be as well, its almost a guarantee.

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#28 Posted by agent41 (16083 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88: @agent41: You might well be revising your definition of "all the time" soon enough.

@truethemyscira:Dont worry chances are Wonder Woman fans will complaining be as well, its almost a guarantee.

Why?. I have no reason to expect good things at this point. I will believe it when i see it.

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#29 Edited by Itachus17 (3760 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@truethemyscira:Dont worry chances are Wonder Woman fans will complaining be as well, its almost a guarantee.

Well they have usually much more reason to do that, but currently is Batman also pretty damn bad so both have pretty good reasons.

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#30 Posted by Tedirey (3081 posts) - - Show Bio

@tedirey: She's also the most powerful member of the team, close second is Swamp Thing. So we might actually get some cool feats.

Ha ha ha. Guess I have to agree with you on that one even though Swamp Thing and Zatanna are uber powerful.

Cool feats? It's a guarantee but it will surely focus more on her god-given gifts and abilities. Amazon's know very ancient magics and it would surely come into play. The series should also showcase the power of truth which is a universal concept. Nothing short of the Presence should be able to resist it.

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#31 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@tedirey said:
@masterwitcher88 said:

@tedirey: She's also the most powerful member of the team, close second is Swamp Thing. So we might actually get some cool feats.

Ha ha ha. Guess I have to agree with you on that one even though Swamp Thing and Zatanna are uber powerful.

Cool feats? It's a guarantee but it will surely focus more on her god-given gifts and abilities. Amazon's know very ancient magics and it would surely come into play. The series should also showcase the power of truth which is a universal concept. Nothing short of the Presence should be able to resist it.

Well physically the most powerful.

Hopefully.

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#32 Edited by Tedirey (3081 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88:

Physically? Yeah. Hopefully.

I'm hoping for more esoteric feats...

The power of the lasso of truth should also showcase its ability in rendering reality manipulation, illusions and mind control useless. Also, it should be capable of negating magics and form a protective barrier against magical attacks just like in Perez and Jimenez runs.

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#33 Edited by Tedirey (3081 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88:

I'm also hoping that the series would show how powerful the godwave really is. It's already mentioned in rebirth. Hope they don't forget that it is the totality of all the power of the DC universe and that the DC gods have the lion's share.

They should probably inject the series with a lot of Vertigoesque concepts. Just like how Odin and other DC gods are shown not only as a peer but as a threat to Lucifer.

We do have a showing like that even in the DC mainstream universe when Cronus thrashed Heaven far better than Lucifer ever did. Here's hoping....

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#34 Posted by Tedirey (3081 posts) - - Show Bio

Cronus > Lucifer Well, at least in terms of causing massive destruction in Heaven.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here's a sample of the lasso forming a protective barrier and aura not only against magical attacks but also cosmics

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

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#35 Posted by comicfan_60 (427 posts) - - Show Bio

So excited about this book! I know what some people are concerned about Tynion, I have read his run on detective comics. He has a habit of putting everyone on the team on equal footing. It means there is a high chance we will sometimes see Diana get punked just so that he can show that someone like man-bat is also awesome. But at this point I am just happy with the fact that Diana is getting another book. And there is always a chance we might get to see Diana being awesome. Also from the looks of it, Scott Snyder might be over seeing this book. So yeah, pretty excited for this book.

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#36 Posted by Nighthunter (29641 posts) - - Show Bio

Tynion is slowly but surely becoming one of DC´s big names.

Like the line-up, although I think that Klarion should be there instead of Man-bat.

Looooove that they redesigned Swamp Thing as Alan Moore though

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#37 Posted by Archizooom (2207 posts) - - Show Bio

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

Hopefully she'll use it sparingly though, I wanna see her use her strength, speed, skill and her brain more, all of which tend to be inversely proportional to the sword

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#38 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88 said:

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

Hopefully she'll use it sparingly though, I wanna see her use her strength, speed, skill and her brain more, all of which tend to be inversely proportional to the sword

100% agree.

"Stronger then Hercules, Swifter then Hermes, as Wise as Athena, and as Beautiful as Aphrodite" and some people just ignore the fact that her powers come first THEN her beauty.

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#39 Posted by Archizooom (2207 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88 said:

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

Hopefully she'll use it sparingly though, I wanna see her use her strength, speed, skill and her brain more, all of which tend to be inversely proportional to the sword

I wonder if this would change if Diana got some fights with other good swords users?

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#41 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@archizooom said:
@masterwitcher88 said:

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

Hopefully she'll use it sparingly though, I wanna see her use her strength, speed, skill and her brain more, all of which tend to be inversely proportional to the sword

I wonder if this would change if Diana got some fights with other good swords users?

I'm not familiar with Dark's villain roster, so I can't say.

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#42 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:
@archizooom said:
@masterwitcher88 said:

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

Hopefully she'll use it sparingly though, I wanna see her use her strength, speed, skill and her brain more, all of which tend to be inversely proportional to the sword

I wonder if this would change if Diana got some fights with other good swords users?

I'm not familiar with Dark's villain roster, so I can't say.

I was thinking more in general terms since the complaint seems to be that Diana doesn't need skill as long as she as a sword.

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#43 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88 said:
@outside_85 said:
@archizooom said:
@masterwitcher88 said:

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

Hopefully she'll use it sparingly though, I wanna see her use her strength, speed, skill and her brain more, all of which tend to be inversely proportional to the sword

I wonder if this would change if Diana got some fights with other good swords users?

I'm not familiar with Dark's villain roster, so I can't say.

I was thinking more in general terms since the complaint seems to be that Diana doesn't need skill as long as she as a sword.

Well there is a difference between skill with a weapon and skill in H2H(which she has be sorely lacking in). On top of the fact that she doesn't have many strength feats outside of scaling with Damage, Doomsday, and soon to be Darkseid. Lets not forget her lack of impressive Durability feats in rebirth thus far.

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#44 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:
@masterwitcher88 said:
@outside_85 said:
@archizooom said:
@masterwitcher88 said:

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

Hopefully she'll use it sparingly though, I wanna see her use her strength, speed, skill and her brain more, all of which tend to be inversely proportional to the sword

I wonder if this would change if Diana got some fights with other good swords users?

I'm not familiar with Dark's villain roster, so I can't say.

I was thinking more in general terms since the complaint seems to be that Diana doesn't need skill as long as she as a sword.

Well there is a difference between skill with a weapon and skill in H2H(which she has be sorely lacking in). On top of the fact that she doesn't have many strength feats outside of scaling with Damage, Doomsday, and soon to be Darkseid. Lets not forget her lack of impressive Durability feats in rebirth thus far.

I wouldn't call her lacking in strength when she's showcased being able to fight with Superman, Damage and Doomsday. What she doesn't have is the Superman-like: 'Look at me lifting this heavy object.'

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#45 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88 said:
@outside_85 said:
@masterwitcher88 said:
@outside_85 said:
@archizooom said:
@masterwitcher88 said:

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

Hopefully she'll use it sparingly though, I wanna see her use her strength, speed, skill and her brain more, all of which tend to be inversely proportional to the sword

I wonder if this would change if Diana got some fights with other good swords users?

I'm not familiar with Dark's villain roster, so I can't say.

I was thinking more in general terms since the complaint seems to be that Diana doesn't need skill as long as she as a sword.

Well there is a difference between skill with a weapon and skill in H2H(which she has be sorely lacking in). On top of the fact that she doesn't have many strength feats outside of scaling with Damage, Doomsday, and soon to be Darkseid. Lets not forget her lack of impressive Durability feats in rebirth thus far.

I wouldn't call her lacking in strength when she's showcased being able to fight with Superman, Damage and Doomsday. What she doesn't have is the Superman-like: 'Look at me lifting this heavy object.'

But fighting those characters is scaling. Not something solid. Like Darkseid is supposedly strong enough to destroy a planet with a couple punches, but fighting him doesn't necessarily me you can destroy planets too. It puts you on that level but its not the same as actually doing it.

The easiest thing to solve this is have her toss around heavy things from Greek Myth. Take Cerberus for example, have him be heavier then Jupiter or some other massive planet and have Diana display her strength by over powering him/lifting him. It be a clear reference to Hercules and a display that she is still "Stronger then Hercules" because of how easy it was for her.

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#46 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:
@masterwitcher88 said:
@outside_85 said:
@masterwitcher88 said:
@outside_85 said:
@archizooom said:
@masterwitcher88 said:

@archizooom: Martinez has a cool look for Diana's sword and shield. At least it will look like a proper Greco-roman sword when she is using it.

The cloak looks cool too.

Hopefully she'll use it sparingly though, I wanna see her use her strength, speed, skill and her brain more, all of which tend to be inversely proportional to the sword

I wonder if this would change if Diana got some fights with other good swords users?

I'm not familiar with Dark's villain roster, so I can't say.

I was thinking more in general terms since the complaint seems to be that Diana doesn't need skill as long as she as a sword.

Well there is a difference between skill with a weapon and skill in H2H(which she has be sorely lacking in). On top of the fact that she doesn't have many strength feats outside of scaling with Damage, Doomsday, and soon to be Darkseid. Lets not forget her lack of impressive Durability feats in rebirth thus far.

I wouldn't call her lacking in strength when she's showcased being able to fight with Superman, Damage and Doomsday. What she doesn't have is the Superman-like: 'Look at me lifting this heavy object.'

But fighting those characters is scaling. Not something solid. Like Darkseid is supposedly strong enough to destroy a planet with a couple punches, but fighting him doesn't necessarily me you can destroy planets too. It puts you on that level but its not the same as actually doing it.

The easiest thing to solve this is have her toss around heavy things from Greek Myth. Take Cerberus for example, have him be heavier then Jupiter or some other massive planet and have Diana display her strength by over powering him/lifting him. It be a clear reference to Hercules and a display that she is still "Stronger then Hercules" because of how easy it was for her.

I'd just go for the grandfather of all lifting feats and just have her hold up the heavens for Atlas tbh.

That said, I really dont think there is anything wrong with scaling characters off one another... I mean that's why we read comics, to see which character can beat the other up, or thats part of the appeal, not which one can lift the heavier object.

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#47 Posted by masterwitcher88 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: why not both? One measurable one (Cerberus) and the other to show she possesses the ability to be infinitely strong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But when scaling is the only thing you have it gets questionable, especially when you have moments of PIS or CIS. Having a couple of solid feats to back up that scaling can go a long way.

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#48 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterwitcher88: But see... you dont really because in terms of story, the strengths of the characters can also change up and down in accordance to what the writer wants. Like you had one of Lobdell's Superman issues where he's strapped to a machine and the doctor mentions he's technically been lifting the Earth for 5 days. And two issues later H'El showed up and kicked the crap out of him without breaking the solar system.

Not to mention these feats also stop meaning anything when there is never imposed an upper limit, so we never know if the characters are even putting and effort into it.

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#49 Posted by comicfan_60 (427 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: why not both? One measurable one (Cerberus) and the other to show she possesses the ability to be infinitely strong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But when scaling is the only thing you have it gets questionable, especially when you have moments of PIS or CIS. Having a couple of solid feats to back up that scaling can go a long way.

@masterwitcher88: But see... you dont really because in terms of story, the strengths of the characters can also change up and down in accordance to what the writer wants. Like you had one of Lobdell's Superman issues where he's strapped to a machine and the doctor mentions he's technically been lifting the Earth for 5 days. And two issues later H'El showed up and kicked the crap out of him without breaking the solar system.

Not to mention these feats also stop meaning anything when there is never imposed an upper limit, so we never know if the characters are even putting and effort into it.

I'd actually be fine with Diana having a little bit less strength than Superman or any other heavy hitter on the same level provided that DC is willing to accept that her skill level is so high that she is untouchable or unbeatable in one to one combat.

btw in the current run, do we know how long Diana was on Themyscira before she left?

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#50 Posted by Tedirey (3081 posts) - - Show Bio

One of the biggest misconception I have seen from comic readers: she's a woman therefore she's not as strong as a man!

That's what separates the High IQ future executives class from the average comic readers. Her strength is MAGIC. She can have the body of a supermodel and it wouldn't matter.