• 61 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for biswaboxz
#51 Edited by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

@jota23 said:
@biswaboxz said:
@jota23 said:

@biswaboxz: Oh, for Christ sakes!!!

OML was Millar trying to get away with not writing Wolverine in a Wolverine book. How is it possible that there are people who still dont get that?

Yeah sure !!!!! U read Wolverine comics , right ? FYI most of them are bloodlusted or wolverine surrounded in bloodbath . And if i am not wrong Millar had written more than enough comics like that . Reference Wolverine MKS , Civil War , Nemesis , Kickass .

So yeah u are right Millar wanted to get away from Logan , since he never wanted to write Wolverine . LOL

EOTS had Logan turned into a generic Hand ninja for most of it, with big parts of the story told in other character's perspective. Hell, there are issues where he barely appears, in that story!

Prisoner Zero is a story about a prisoner in a concentration camp who can't die. It's not a Wolverine story though. That character acts nothing like Logan and there's no way it fits in his continuity.

OML stars a character that doesn't act like Wolverine, doesn't talk like Wolverine, doesn't even look like him! Hell, it should be a Cable story! At least fans could say he looks like him.

No, Mark Millar never wanted to write Wolverine. He wanted the notoriety of writing him. His Wolverine books always had as little Logan as he could get away with which, apparently, is no Logan, since there's bunch of people tripping over themselves to congratulate him for his terrible stories and stay true to the saying that a fool and his money are easily parted.

Yeah That's what i expected u tell things like that . I realize that Millar tries to give new dimensions to Logan's character with his story lines . And that's one of the reasons , i like them the most . Majority writers play with him around with his "own demons " , "Weapon X " and "his whole women protegees" agendas all the time , that made him a one dimensional character more or less .

This even retconned his origins from Loeb's and Way's run , where they even made him villain once or twice , which was even terrible to picture him like that . This showed that his whole life is made on "Weapon X" .But that's wrong whatsoever .

U should see through ur comments that shows itself that he has different talents . This shows that a character who has live through generations(180 yrs) can gather different skills through lifetimes .

EOTS showed him as "Hand Ninja" (as u referenced) who is being controlled by The Hand, which basically proves that he has those capabilities to show those skills which he already showed during Mutant Masacare , where he proved himself of who he is for the first time .

Prisoner Zero proves him that he was gone through pain and difficulties through concentration camps , to become a survivor .Your claims about him as his own character is pointless here , cause in this type of story line it showed he was a "loner" person who had gone thorugh so much pain in his life .

OML showed not only his suffering . But it also showed that he can have a family and live a happy life but his own instincts and demons would haunt him throughout his life , cause's he is Wolverine .

Wolverine was basically a archetype of Clint Eastwood and Millar wanted him to write him like that but he also wanted to give him a new dimensions by adding a old man similar to William Bunny from Unforgiven in OML . Therefore like i said b4 YEAH SURE he didn't want write him because he wanted to get away from him LOL

http://www.vulture.com/2017/03/the-comic-that-inspired-logan-revolutionized-marvels-x-men.html

Avatar image for jota23
#52 Posted by Jota23 (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@biswaboxz: "New dimensions"! His Wolverine had the depth of a puddle. He barely had a personality and 90% of the time it wasn't his!

And that article! "It revolutionized the Marvel brand"! Oh yeah, what a revolution! Now, any hack who's out of ideas can just put "Old" in front of a character's name and call it a day. These morons are ripping off a story that was itself a rip-off! At least Millar steals from talented people. These idiots are stealing from Mark Millar! That's beyond pathetic!

Avatar image for biswaboxz
#53 Posted by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

@jota23: Well u do realize i told u already that he was regarded as typical one-dimensional character due to his "Weapon X" agendas and his whole "Woman Protegees" that happened time and time again . And who said he wasn't his character . There were certain pts i showed on my previous post , that shows some characteristics views of Logan's life .

Talking about the article here is another one , where Millar said it himself that Logan is regarded as an archetypal character of Wolverine .

https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/01/29/mark-millar-talks-wolverine-1985-kick-ass?page=3

EOTS showed him as "Hand Ninja" (as u referenced) who is being controlled by The Hand, which basically proves that he has those capabilities to show those skills , which he already showed during Mutant Masacare , where he proved himself of who he is for the first time .

Prisoner Zero proves him that he was gone through pain and difficulties through concentration camps , to become a survivor .Your claims about him as his own character is pointless here , cause in this type of story line it showed that he is a "loner" person who had gone thorugh so much pain in his life .

OML showed not only his suffering . But it also showed that he can have a family and live a happy life but his own instincts and demons would haunt him throughout his life , cause's he is Wolverine .

Avatar image for jota23
#54 Edited by Jota23 (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@biswaboxz:

Well u do realize i told u already that he was regarded as typical one-dimensional character due to his "Weapon X" agendas and his whole "Woman Protegees" that happened time and time again .

Regarded by who? Morons? Logan was developed by Chris Claremont and Larry Hama into one of the best characters ever created. He was written by tons of good writers, through the years. What kind of idiot thinks he's one-dimensional?

Also Millar added nothing to the character. Zero!

EOTS showed him as "Hand Ninja" (as u referenced) who is being controlled by The Hand, which basically proves that he has those capabilities to show those skills , which he already showed during Mutant Masacare , where he proved himself of who he is for the first time .

What skills? EOTS Wolverine was laughably inept. He got his ass kicked by anyone who wasn't faceless mook in that story. The only reason why he lasted as long as he did in that story was because Millar, "great" writer as he is, had the vilains fitting Wolverine with a bunch of devices that conveniently bailed him out every time he was losing a fight against a hero, which were all of them. The guy took an army to face Daredevil and he still lost!

I meant "generic Hand ninja" as in he had no personality.

Prisoner Zero proves him that he was gone through pain and difficulties through concentration camps , to become a survivor .Your claims about him as his own character is pointless here , cause in this type of story line it showed that he is a "loner" person who had gone thorugh so much pain in his life.

But that story is not a part of his life. It fits nowhere in the continuity of the things he was doing during WW2. There's multiple stories of him as a soldier and agent, during that time period. He didn't have the time to waste months (years?) playing grab-ass with successive concentration camp commanders.

He's also completely out of character in that story. Logan would have killed the guards and freed the prisoners, instead of letting countless people die while he wasted time getting repeatedly maimed.

That story is actually a decent horror story. It's just a terrible Wolverine story, because he's not in it.

OML showed not only his suffering . But it also showed that he can have a family and live a happy life but his own instincts and demons would haunt him throughout his life , cause's he is Wolverine .

Which is something we've seen countless times in other Wolverine stories. Was that the first Wolverine story you ever read? Because those themes have been around in Wolverine stories for a long time... Written by better writers... Who were talented enough to come up with their own stories, instead of a half-assed Unforgiven rip-off.

Avatar image for biswaboxz
#55 Edited by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

@jota23 said:

@biswaboxz:

Regarded by who? Morons? Logan was developed by Chris Claremont and Larry Hama into one of the best characters ever created. He was written by tons of good writers, through the years. What kind of idiot thinks he's one-dimensional?

Also Millar added nothing to the character. Zero!

wow , u didn't seem to get my point , didn't u ? His whole life rolls around "Weapon X characters" and "women protgees" all the time , and the stories are getting bland and boring with time , since writers didn't have any ideas to make those more enticing except for retconning his origins time and time again that some comic readers even couldn't even track story lines

Millar added something which tend to create larger audience to read his comics as well give the character a certainty to show that his life more than those what i mentioned above .

@jota23 said:

@biswaboxz:

What skills? EOTS Wolverine was laughably inept. He got his ass kicked by anyone who wasn't faceless mook in that story. The only reason why he lasted as long as he did in that story was because Millar, "great" writer as he is, had the vilains fitting Wolverine with a bunch of devices that conveniently bailed him out every time he was losing a fight against a hero, which were all of them. The guy took an army to face Daredevil and he still lost!

I meant "generic Hand ninja" as in he had no personality.

Well with his skills he got into high security faculty of FF which shows itself that he could break into any measures of security , that he already showed b4 during Mutant Masscare , even though he was holding backor showing resistance from being mind controlled .

That's one the reason that he couldn't took out Matt . Matt is one the best Martial artists , who is ranked with the likes of Shang chi . If u really want to argue then i will advice u to ask the mods . But honestly he was still giving a good fight .

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

And if u really want to think that Millar didn't gave anything then how about Gorgon vs Wolverine . For the record Gorgon is one the top skill antagonists of the Marvel Universe who even took out Elektra(she is also ranked among the best imo) like a liliput . But it was still overwhelming for Wolverine but in the end he is Wolverine .

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

@jota23 said:

Prisoner Zero proves him that he was gone through pain and difficulties through concentration camps , to become a survivor .Your claims about him as his own character is pointless here , cause in this type of story line it showed that he is a "loner" person who had gone thorugh so much pain in his life.

But that story is not a part of his life. It fits nowhere in the continuity of the things he was doing during WW2. There's multiple stories of him as a soldier and agent, during that time period. He didn't have the time to waste months (years?) playing grab-ass with successive concentration camp commanders.

He's also completely out of character in that story. Logan would have killed the guards and freed the prisoners, instead of letting countless people die while he wasted time getting repeatedly maimed.

That story is actually a decent horror story. It's just a terrible Wolverine story, because he's not in it.

Yeah it's a horror story but i liked it , and he said it himself that he was so much foolish to realize that b4 when he was young . That itself how much character development took place with time .

@jota23 said:

OML showed not only his suffering . But it also showed that he can have a family and live a happy life but his own instincts and demons would haunt him throughout his life , cause's he is Wolverine .

Which is something we've seen countless times in other Wolverine stories. Was that the first Wolverine story you ever read? Because those themes have been around in Wolverine stories for a long time... Written by better writers... Who were talented enough to come up with their own stories, instead of a half-assed Unforgiven rip-off.

LOL Oh really , he had countless number of happy stories with his own family , right ? . Has there been any story regarding Marvel universe having a dystopian future b4 ? and even it had how many time does it revolved with Logan ?

Yeah it 's same theme that happens with Logan time and time again , itself shows that he is a one dimensional character but this time it isn't in this story line cause the whole background of this universe is different .

The only thing that differed that it ends with suffering ,which itself that the character is Wolverine . Thanks for making my point clear that he is Wolverine . :D

Avatar image for jota23
#56 Posted by Jota23 (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@biswaboxz:

wow , u didn't seem to get my point , didn't u ? His whole life rolls around "Weapon X characters" and "women protgees" all the time , and the stories are getting bland and boring with time , since writers didn't have any ideas to make those more enticing except for retconning his origins time and time again that some comic readers even couldn't even track story lines

1) There were Wolverine stories about plenty of other things.

2) I'll take the same stories a thousand times before I read Millar ripping-off a old Chris Claremont idea (EOTS) or ripping-off Mad Max and Unforgiven. Yeah, he's just filled with originality.

3) I'm all for seeing Logan in new types of stories, but Millar's stories don't have Logan in them. You don't seem to get the point that I've been making since my first post in this thread: Millar's Wolverine stories don't have Wolverine in them! He can't write the character and he doesn't want to. If the main character is unrecognizable as Logan, it's not a damned Wolverine story!

Millar added something which tend to create larger audience to read his comics as well give the character a certainty to show that his life more than those what i mentioned above .

His life is more than what you mentioned above. You might need a scottish hack to tell you that, but real fans of the character know it already.

Also "create larger audience to read his comics" my ass! Despite all of his bluster, Millar's stories always sold in numbers that were normal for Wolverine comics at the time.

Well with his skills he got into high security faculty of FF which shows itself that he could break into any measures of security , that he already showed b4 during Mutant Masscare ,

And, after bragging about it in typical hyperbolic Millar character fashion, he was found out in seconds.

even though he was holding backor showing resistance from being mind controlled .

And here we are! I was wondering when the chief Millar fan excuse for this story was going to come up. There isn't a single moment in that story where Logan is shown to be holding back or fighting against the mind control. He just lost.

Millar never said he was holding back in any interview he gave about the story. I even remember him being surprised about the complaints from fans, especially about Logan loosing to Elektra. Because being a Frank Miller sex fantasy apparently qualifies you to beat Wolverine in a fight.

That's one the reason that he couldn't took out Matt . Matt is one the best Martial artists , who is ranked with the likes of Shang chi . If u really want to argue then i will advice u to ask the mods . But honestly he was still giving a good fight .

Oh my god, stop the presses! He was giving Daredevil a good fight, before getting defeated in slap-sticky fashion!

Man, I miss the time when Wolverine fans had balls and wanted the character to have them too. Oh, wait! You're not a Wolverine fan.

Yeah it's a horror story but i liked it , and he said it himself that he was so much foolish to realize that b4 when he was young . That itself how much character development took place with time .

He was either in his fifties or sixties, when that story happened.

LOL Oh really , he had countless number of happy stories with his own family , right ?

Do you know who Wild Thing is? Or Torrent? Wolverine's daughters from happy marriages in alternate futures/realities. So, at least two, just of the top of my head.

Has there been any story regarding Marvel universe having a dystopian future b4 ?

You just described about 98% of futures we've seen in Marvel stories. Day of Future Past ring a bell? It's a pretty important X-men story.

Also, Logan has expressed the desire to settle down and leave a peaceful life numerous times. It's been part of his character long before Millar got his claws on him.

Avatar image for jota23
#58 Posted by Jota23 (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@biswaboxz: I can see your reply in my notifications but not in the thread. I don't know what's happening.

Avatar image for biswaboxz
#59 Edited by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

@jota23: I have deleted my comment cause's u win , I loss . I couldn't argue over this right now cause's it's been bad for last few years(since DOW) of being a fan of Wolverine , not in terms of fandom( then I couldn't have been a fan of Wolverine lol ) but how Marvel is treating his return or "him" like a garbage . I think u should knw that by now if u knw his current status quo .

Avatar image for jota23
#60 Posted by Jota23 (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@biswaboxz: That we can agree with. Marvel's treatment of Wolverine has been terrible for years and they are botching his return big time.

How do you bring back one of your most successful, iconic characters and, after more then a year, he still isn't back?

And now, there's an announcement of a Infinity War spin-of book with him! What in the Hell is happening?

Avatar image for biswaboxz
#61 Edited by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

@jota23: Yeah i have heard that they are having a IW aftermath with book named " Wolverine: Infinity Watch" .And I thought this will reveal the secret behind his cameos apps that started from Marvel Legacy(when he collected the space stone)

But on the top of the shelf i have recently heard rumors that tomorrow's Avengers 700 had shown Phoenix Wolverine from bleeding cool ?

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/11/12/review-avengers-10-700-more-teams-spoilers/

Then I thought what the heck is happening with his return ? Is he going to return at all ? This is so much stupid , cosmic stuff is BS for Logan but Marvel thinks this is best for Logan WOW .

Avatar image for jeannieh
#62 Posted by JeannieH (180 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there a "Return of Wolverine" discussion thread? Or we just discuss it here as and when the issues come out?