Why Superman will never, ever be able to lift Thor's Hammer

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TruePwnge

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#1  Edited By TruePwnge

Give me a paragraph, why is Superman fail
what makes you a Viking or a Warrior worthy of Odin?

Why would the Kryptonian Superdickery not be worthy to lift the hammer ever

but folk like Beta Ray Bill or Wonder Woman might be worthy?

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seekquaze

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#2  Edited By seekquaze

Everyone who has lifted the hammer has a warrior mentality Superman lacks.  I think part of it is killing.  Superman one time was thrust into a long war in Asgard and refused to kill the demons there were fighting.  He refuses to kill under any circumstances.  From a warrior's perspective this is ridiculous and foolish.  I think that is part of it an on a whole he lacks the same warrior spirits those who have lifted it do.

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MOONKNIGHT-LANTERN

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this will turn out to be an superman hate thread ....

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seekquaze

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#4  Edited By seekquaze
@MOONKNIGHT-LANTERN:  I do not hate Superman.  I was just stating based on my knowledge of Superman and those who have lifted it what sets them apart.  Everyone who has lifted it has more of a traditional warrior mentality than superman
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MOONKNIGHT-LANTERN

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@seekquaze said:
"@MOONKNIGHT-LANTERN:  I do not hate Superman.  I was just stating based on my knowledge of Superman and those who have lifted it what sets them apart.  Everyone who has lifted it has more of a traditional warrior mentality than superman"

no not you...i was talking about the other people on the vine ....like the creator of the thread ..he sounds like he hates superman just by reading his post....
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Kal'smahboi

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#6  Edited By Kal'smahboi

Yes this will become a hate thread.

I agree, however. (With my limited knowledge of Thor) Superman is not a warrior. He has plenty of spirit and resolve; he will never give up and will always fight for those who need him. But Superman was only raised to believe in good and born with natural strength whereas Thor and others like Wonder Woman were trained since birth (or creation) to fight and to destroy their opponents.
As much as it pains me to say it, according to the legend of Thor's hammer, Superman should not be able to lift it.

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Chaos Agent

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#7  Edited By Chaos Agent

Personally I don't think his lack of willingness to kill makes him any less of a warrior, for instance in World of New Krypton, where Superman is actually acting as Commander El. He has always tried to resolve things without killing but not without hesistating to take any action. Maybe some will say that it takes the warrior aspect from it but for me that only fundaments that he is one warrior that still stands above most of them. Superman knows the easiest way to end most conflicts is by using his superior power but knows that because it's the easiest doesn't mean that it's the best way.

Captain America and Wonder Woman both have killed in the past, yes but that's never been their first option. Even Superman has killed in the past but that doesn't mean he lacks warrior courage. Just throwing that out there, then again I'm a big Superman fan.

Didn't Superman already wield the hammer though?

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castleking

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#8  Edited By castleking
it was non canon and superman didnt lift it under his own merit he was allowed by thor and his father that was made perfectly clear.
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Chaos Agent

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#9  Edited By Chaos Agent
@castleking said:
" it was non canon and superman didnt lift it under his own merit he was allowed by thor and his father that was made perfectly clear. "
JLA/Avengers has been stated to be canon by both DC and Marvel
Unless I'm missing something Captain America also was allowed by Thor am I not right? And even if Superman was allowed, doesn't that mean that Odin (creator of Mjolnier) considers him worthy enough to use it anyway? lol
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castleking

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#10  Edited By castleking
no, the crossover is only canon and made reference by DC not marvel.... second being allowed to wield the hammer doesnt mean he can lift it alone under his own merit, it was blatantly shown superman was not worthy do lift the hammer the second time without permission... cap has a better shot at being worthy then superman to lift the hammer, he is a true warrior in every sense of the word..
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seekquaze

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#11  Edited By seekquaze
Was the time you mentioned Superman killing in an alternate reality?   As far as I know present Superman pretty much refuses to kill under any circumstances.   The difference being Thor and Wonder Woman do not use killing as the first time, but in a matter of war or emergenices they know sometimes there is not another option.  You may have your idea of a warrior, but the question is is it Odin's idea of a warrior.  I think Odin would consider Superman a hero, but not a warrior-born like Wonder Woman and Thor.

Superman lifted it one time, but could not afterwards.  Thor made it quite clear this was because it was an emergency.   The worthiness clause works normally by a person has to be worthy, but in emergency situations someone not worthy can temporarily lift it and use its powers, but is not truly worthy. 
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Tmul501

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#12  Edited By Tmul501

Because he's a DC character and Thor is a Marvel character

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ClarkJosephKent1938DC

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Superman did kill Doomsday. Well they killed each other.

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DH69

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#14  Edited By DH69
@Tmul501 said:
"Because he's a DC character and Thor is a Marvel character"

nuff said right there
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Primarch

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#15  Edited By Primarch

On the point of killing and what it contributes to being a warrior, from Asgard's Realm and the other worlds in the Thor mythos, death in battle is usually a great honour, if not the greatest honour. In that same regard, giving someone "a good death" as they put it in 300, killing someone in battle, often sends them to a realm of particular importance (such as Valhalla for the Asgardians) or makes them a hero to their people, dying for the ultimate cause.

As Superman refuses to kill, he doesn't give his opponents the honourable death they seek in battle, by letting his opponents live time and time again, he continualy denies them the right to join their comrades/ancestors that have died in battle and have that "great honour" of dying in battle.


I'm almost positive nothing like that has ever been said in Comics, but I think its an interesting theory. 

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rightprice

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#16  Edited By rightprice
@Primarch said:
"On the point of killing and what it contributes to being a warrior, from Asgard's Realm and the other worlds in the Thor mythos, death in battle is usually a great honour, if not the greatest honour. In that same regard, giving someone "a good death" as they put it in 300, killing someone in battle, often sends them to a realm of particular importance (such as Valhalla for the Asgardians) or makes them a hero to their people, dying for the ultimate cause. As Superman refuses to kill, he doesn't give his opponents the honourable death they seek in battle, by letting his opponents live time and time again, he continualy denies them the right to join their comrades/ancestors that have died in battle and have that "great honour" of dying in battle. I'm almost positive nothing like that has ever been said in Comics, but I think its an interesting theory.  "

But which of Supermans enemies are actually seeking death when they fight him?  Unless they would consider it an honor to be killed fighting him, Superman really isn't denying them any honor. 
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The_Ghostshell

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#17  Edited By The_Ghostshell
 
 
   



He cant lift it but he sure lifted Thor off his feet ;)
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vance_astro

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#18  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator

Superman is DC and Thor is Marvel..case closed.

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saiyan_earthling

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#19  Edited By saiyan_earthling

isn't it supposed to be like only those who are worthy can lift and use the hammer?

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glforthewin

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#20  Edited By glforthewin

doe s the marvel vs dc stuff count cause if wonder women could then superman is just as worthy as her 

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The_Ghostshell

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#21  Edited By The_Ghostshell
@glforthewin said:
"doe s the marvel vs dc stuff count cause if wonder women could then superman is just as worthy as her  "
Some does, some doesnt.
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Edit Lad

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#22  Edited By Edit Lad
@seekquaze said:
" Was the time you mentioned Superman killing in an alternate reality?   As far as I know present Superman pretty much refuses to kill under any circumstances.   The difference being Thor and Wonder Woman do not use killing as the first time, but in a matter of war or emergenices they know sometimes there is not another option.  You may have your idea of a warrior, but the question is is it Odin's idea of a warrior.  I think Odin would consider Superman a hero, but not a warrior-born like Wonder Woman and Thor.Superman lifted it one time, but could not afterwards.  Thor made it quite clear this was because it was an emergency.   The worthiness clause works normally by a person has to be worthy, but in emergency situations someone not worthy can temporarily lift it and use its powers, but is not truly worthy.  "
I think he is refering to "Superman Exile" which is canon in the normal DC universe. I think it's collected in tp and the information is in the official website of DC Comics
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BatDance

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#23  Edited By BatDance

more proof Kurt Busiek has either gone senile or jumpedtheshark
 
people who can wield the hammer
 
 this 
 
or this
 
NOT THIS
 

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Marshal Victory

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#24  Edited By Marshal Victory
@Gambler said:
"
 
 
   He cant lift it but he sure lifted Thor off his feet ;) "


spinal tap referance on the dial going to elven?hmm an um wheres the boy scouts weekenss to magic in that ?
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hunter4prezadent

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#25  Edited By hunter4prezadent
@Gambler:
that's a fluke red hulk did it to, so as long as Thor, or someone worthy already holds the hammer they can to aslong as the one weilding the hammer doesn't let go. In that pic if Thor had let go the weight of the hammer would have broke supermans arm. Also superman told wonder woman in Trinity that if he were a normal man he probably woun't be as brave,  but Thor, Cap,  and the others to lift the hammer would fight for what's right no matter what. That's why Klark well never lift Thor's hammer.
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Omega Ray Jay

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#26  Edited By Omega Ray Jay

I thought this thread was an innuendo

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rein

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#27  Edited By rein

in ultimate avengers Hulk lifted Thor's hammer through pure strength, not sure if you count that as cannon or not ( if hulk can do it through pure strength im sure superman can too)

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hunter4prezadent

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#28  Edited By hunter4prezadent
@rein:
it doesn't, cause in ultimate avengers    Thor's hammer is lifts his hammer through strength alone, not worth.
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BIackFlash

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#29  Edited By BIackFlash
@castleking said:
" it was non canon and superman didnt lift it under his own merit he was allowed by thor and his father that was made perfectly clear. "
If Odin says no then its a No for Superfreak
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AtPhantom

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#30  Edited By AtPhantom

Oh stop it already. There is no reason why Superman would not be able to lift Thor's hammer.

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RaptorFratBoy

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#31  Edited By RaptorFratBoy

So the point of this thread...
 
...Was to bash Superman for no apparent reason? You just threw-in an inter-company cross-over scenario to bash Superman?
 
Too much time, man...too much time...

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King_Thor

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#32  Edited By King_Thor

Why Superman will never lift Mjolnir? 
 
Heh... 
 
Because as long as Joe Quesada is EIC of Marvel comics, DC won't deal in another crossover with Marvel.   
 
Which...personally...does not hurt my feelings.  I'm tired of Thor playing second fiddle to Superman.  The whole merging of two realities was PIS in the extreme...to allow Superman to save the day... 
 
with Cap's shield and Thor's hammer no less. 
 
Sheesh...

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MichaeltheFly

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#33  Edited By MichaeltheFly

I guess some people don't agree with Superman being the nr. 1 superhero on the block when it comes to power... and what can I say I agree with them.

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Omega-level Supreme

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@AtPhantom said:
"Oh stop it already. There is no reason why Superman would not be able to lift Thor's hammer. "

Except that's it's enchanted, right?
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AtPhantom

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#35  Edited By AtPhantom
@Omega-level Supreme said:
" @AtPhantom said:
"Oh stop it already. There is no reason why Superman would not be able to lift Thor's hammer. "
Except that's it's enchanted, right? "
The question of the thread is why the hammer's enchantment would not allow Superman to lift it. I say there is no reason and he could lift it wield his power just fine.
Does that clear it up?
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vance_astro

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#36  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator

SUPERMAN IS A DC CHARACTER...THOR IS A MARVEL CHARACTER.CLOSE THREAD.

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Omega-level Supreme

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@AtPhantom said:
" @Omega-level Supreme said:
" @AtPhantom said:
"Oh stop it already. There is no reason why Superman would not be able to lift Thor's hammer. "
Except that's it's enchanted, right? "
The question of the thread is why the hammer's enchantment would not allow Superman to lift it. I say there is no reason and he could lift it wield his power just fine. Does that clear it up? "


Half of me thought you were kidding and the other half thought you would respond with something like that. So I have to ask you what makes you think he's worthy?                                     %Pr
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AtPhantom

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#38  Edited By AtPhantom
@Omega-level Supreme said:
" Half of me thought you were kidding and the other half thought you would respond with something like that. So I have to ask you what makes you think he's worthy?                                     %Pr "
Because I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise.
Is he honorable? Yes.
Is he a good man? Yes.
Is he a warrior? Yes. We've seen that of him many times. Hell, he's currently the supreme military leader of New Krypton.
Is he willing to die for others and for his principles? Yes.
Would he put the hammer to good purpose? Yes. Anyone who knows anything about him would know that.
 
I see nothing about the people who have already lifted the hammer that would separate them from Superman. They even said Hercules was worthy to wield the hammer, but Superman isn't? Come on.
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Omega-level Supreme

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@AtPhantom: Well put. My new found hatred for SM seems to fog my memory. Before you wrote this all I could think of was, ' no he can't, he's a weinie'. The power of hatred is an amazing force.                       %Pr
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AtPhantom

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#40  Edited By AtPhantom
@Omega-level Supreme said:
" @AtPhantom: Well put. My new found hatred for SM seems to fog my memory. Before you wrote this all I could think of was, ' no he can't, he's a weinie'. The power of hatred is an amazing force.                       %Pr "
LOL. What inspired this new found hatred?
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Omega-level Supreme

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@AtPhantom: To be honest, I could probably never fully hate Superman, but his powers are to unbelievable for me at the momment. How is he strong enough to move the planet, even with the help of two other JLA'er? Move near or at the speed of light. I know he's been doing those things forever, but it doesn't sit well with me for now. The source of his powers and how it augments him doesn't help either. It just doen'st make sense. 
I know it's a work of fiction, but give me something plausible please...                                     %Pr
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AtPhantom

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#42  Edited By AtPhantom
@Omega-level Supreme said:
" @AtPhantom: To be honest, I could probably never fully hate Superman, but his powers are to unbelievable for me at the momment. How is he strong enough to move the planet, even with the help of two other JLA'er? Move near or at the speed of light. I know he's been doing those things forever, but it doesn't sit well with me for now. The source of his powers and how it augments him doesn't help either. It just doen'st make sense. I know it's a work of fiction, but give me something plausible please...                                     %Pr "
I can understand that. It  bothered me too for a long time, but I just went over it. I just don't care about it anymore.
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Omega-level Supreme

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@AtPhantom: Cool. It might be awhile before I'm on that level, but I'll most likely get there.                       %Pr
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Nova`Prime`

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#44  Edited By Nova`Prime`
@Omega-level Supreme: Man that's how I feel about Superman. He was awesome and my favorite when I was younger, his death actually got me interested into comics. But as I grew older, and more cynical, he just seemed to stay the same boring old character. Now recent developments make me want to give him a chance, its just I don't know if I want to give that chance just to waste money and drop him after a few issues sorta like I did with JSA.
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Omega-level Supreme

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I have an Idea everybody. Were going to boycott Superman titles until they fix his character. How about that?                    %Pr

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Omega-level Supreme

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Just realized why I have a growing resentment towards the Man of Steel.                             %Pr
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OhTru

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#47  Edited By OhTru
@Vance Astro said:

"

SUPERMAN IS A DC CHARACTER...THOR IS A MARVEL CHARACTER.CLOSE THREAD.

"
No I actually buy Wonder Woman lifting the hammer
 
Warrior trained, does she know how to kick, wrestle and box YES
Did she grow up clashing spears with her buddies, did she grow up with cold steel in her hands? YES 
Has she fought demons, does she know about magic? 
Does she lob off heads of her enemies, has she fought the gods YES
Does Diana have her own ship that would impress a Viking craftsman YES 
 
 
but Kurt Busiek writing that crossover GARBAGE 
no 
HELL NO
I'm surprised because Kurt is normally a high grade writer but his take on Thor always sucked
 

 
 
 

@saiyan_earthling

said:

" isn't it supposed to be like only those who are worthy can lift and use the hammer? "

Superman is a dick  
 

  

 




 
 
Not Worthy
 
Case closed
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defaultdefaultdefault

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because Odin has some long standing bad beef with the Kryptonians.
no one really knows the exact details, but what is known that it has something
to do with a long time ago, Reno Nevada, booze, and Supermans ancestor
setting fire to Odins beard. Mjolnir has some kind of guard against Kryptonains
(who usually have a bad reaction with magic) placed on it. In fact the print on
Mjolnir reads...

No Caption Provided

but, upon closer examination we find this
No Caption Provided
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PrinceIMC

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#49  Edited By PrinceIMC

I think its a good point that was mentioned early on that it would be Odin's idea of worthy so Superman may not precisely fit this Norse idea of worthiness.

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AtPhantom

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#50  Edited By AtPhantom

I find it ironic that CATMANEXE has probably made the best argument against Superman so far on this thread.