Why female Thor is selling so poorly compared to Stracynski

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killraven4334

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#1  Edited By killraven4334

This is not an opinion, the facts are in, Female Thor is selling quite a bit less copies than Stracynskis run of the same name. Some people want to compare Thor, to TgoT, but that is not an accurate comparison, Thor TgoT was never a main title Thor run, and comics titled Thor should duke it out against other titles named Thor. When Thor returned after dissaembled he did so not under the title The Mighty THor, not under JITM, but under the title of Thor, the exact same title as female thor. The only issue is the 140,000 issue sales gap between them.

The self-titled male Thor run had zero publicity surrounding it, there were no appeals to a massive new audience, no backing from oprah, just a bunch of loyal fans ready and waiting for Thor to finally show up and break Iron man in half, and boy did he. Stracynskis from the start was everything a Thor fan could want and the numbers reflected it. Thor debuted harder and had far greater staying power than female Thor whos numbers dropped by 60,000 between issue one and two and bleed all the way down to a paltry 69,000, over 30,000 issues less than issue five of the male Thor run which had none of the publicity, buzz, or demographic pandering that female thor has.

Clarification

Q.Why are you comparing female Thor to a run that happened from 07-09?

A. This run titled Thor, the subsequent run was a mighty Thor run followed by journey into mystery, the goal was an apples to apples comparison.

Q. There is a whole dollar price difference between female and male Thor how can this be an accurate comparison?

A. Thor v3 is still making more money, once you adjust for inflation. If you do not adjust for inflation the numbers are 1,769,548 dollars for Thor v3, and 1,801,748 dollars for Thor v4. However factoring in that 2.99 was worth 3.38 using http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=2.99&year1=2007&year2=2015 which puts Thor v3 at 2,000,256 and the clear winner both in issues sold and profitably.

Stracynski Run issues 1-5 591,792 (totals for 1-5) Only displaying 1 and 5 for comparison purposes, feel free to fact check numbers are available online)

July, 2007

1Thor1$2.99Marvel165,267

December 2007

5Thor5$2.99Marvel

101,490

Female Thor Run 1-5 451,566

October, 2014

3Thor1$3.99Marvel150,862

February, 2015

11Thor5$3.99Marvel69,513

With all this in front of us, it becomes pretty clear that female Thor has been rejected by fans who would have bought the book if it had been written with respect for the character like the 07-09 run. For an 8 issue run, its momentum was sapped out on the first issue which was the only issue to break 100k and honestly that was likely Oprah buying them for all her fans...

This is why it is important to speak with your wallets comic fans, and if anyone tries to say that female thor is selling well, remind them that in comparison to the male Thor title they are blatantly wrong.

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antithetical

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Well one factor to take into account with Stracynski's run is that Thor was returning to regular publication after having been "dead" for a few years following the events of Ragnarok from the previous run. Not defending replacement Thor at all, but it is something to take into consideration.

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killraven4334

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#3  Edited By killraven4334

@antithetical said:

Well one factor to take into account with Stracynski's run is that Thor was returning to regular publication after having been "dead" for a few years following the events of Ragnarok from the previous run. Not defending replacement Thor at all, but it is something to take into consideration.

That was taken into consideration, but my feeling is that the return of Thor was not nearly as publicized and it was not outreaching to a new demographic with the intent to give the numbers a bump. Basically if you weren't into comics you had no idea Thor was gone much less returning. Where as everybody on the planet new thor was becoming a woman. It was on the news, in the papers, on Tv, never before was a comic book hyped more in the media, on the view, on Oprah, on my damn radio going to work. The exposure of female Thor was more than when Captain America died. To me, the publicity around female thor easily outweighs the excitement of Thor coming back when Thor wasn't even one of marvels top titles prior to his death.

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Asgaard

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Also female Thor book sales are based in the bait plot (who is she), and the Original Thor still is in the new book many of the readers are still reading the pr stunt book only for him, i gave Aaron's a shot for the great TGOT, but i only read the first 5 issues so i hope that others like me also are not reading the new book anymore, because they also realize how crappy is the current writing, and that Aaron didn't mind to butch Thor and Odin to try make this change work and sell his new pr stunt story, (Aaron also insult Thor fans in issue 5)...

And the Straczynski run was before the MCU, Thor was not so popular like he is now... Straczynski writing on Thor was simply awesome, that's why the sales were very consistent...

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Makentsu

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@killraven4334: Very well put and I have to say I agree with you on how Stracynski's run of Thor didn't need hype to sell so well just a great story and good usage of it's characters. I also find it interesting how people will only go as back to Matt Fraction's run on Thor when comparing fem-Thor's sales to the original and go no further than that. However I also want to pint out that we have to take digital sales into consideration as well when comparing comic sales like this as to be more accurate and while I can't tell you the exact sales number I checked marvel's website and shows that all of fem-Thor's books have been selling well digitally. Now I'm not a fan of this run but I feel that is something we should take into account.

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Asgaard

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#7  Edited By Asgaard

@makentsu said:

@killraven4334: Very well put and I can't help but agree with you on how they'll on;t compare fem-thor's sales with Tgot and The mighty Thor but no further than that. However I also want to point out that we have consider the digital sales as well when comparing things like this to be more accurate cause if you look on marvel's website her books have been in the best selling digital comics.

At least in the 5 issue that is read the story is very far from being only about her that also has to be considered...The whisper and the main plots come from TGOT... The only thing build around her is the female Thor Pr stunt and who is she, but after issue 8 that bait ends and then Thors and when Aaron's Thor current book comes back i really want to see the sales...

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Makentsu

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@asgaard: Same I hope the sale are higher than the sales for Spider-Man when he returned.

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antithetical

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@antithetical said:

Well one factor to take into account with Stracynski's run is that Thor was returning to regular publication after having been "dead" for a few years following the events of Ragnarok from the previous run. Not defending replacement Thor at all, but it is something to take into consideration.

That was taken into consideration, but my feeling is that the return of Thor was not nearly as publicized and it was not outreaching to a new demographic with the intent to give the numbers a bump. Basically if you weren't into comics you had no idea Thor was gone much less returning. Where as everybody on the planet new thor was becoming a woman. It was on the news, in the papers, on Tv, never before was a comic book hyped more in the media, on the view, on Oprah, on my damn radio going to work. The exposure of female Thor was more than when Captain America died. To me, the publicity around female thor easily outweighs the excitement of Thor coming back when Thor wasn't even one of marvels top titles prior to his death.

I wasn't around reading and keeping track of comics at that time, but I'd assume there definitely wasn't the level of media blitz and hype surrounding Thor's return which of course makes Stracynski's run all the more impressive.

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deactivated-097092725

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Really? We're doing this now?

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Asgaard

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#11  Edited By Asgaard

@makentsu said:

@asgaard: Same I hope the sale are higher than the sales for Spider-Man when he returned.

Unfortunately she still be called Thor by Marvel after Secret Wars because she is in the new Avengers line up, i wasn't talking about the sales of when there is a new run and Thor Odinson is wielding Mjolnir again, i was talking about the sales of the current book After Secret Wars seems that the book stops now after 8 issues but certainly will be continued after Secret Wars and i want to see that sales without both bait plots (Whisper and who is she), because the whisper certainly also will be revealed in the book Thors, i want see Aaron's current book sales only based in the quality of the writing, probably Thor only be have Mjolnir back in 2017 by the time of the Ragnarok movie, and i really hope good sales and that Aaron is not writing that future run...

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antithetical

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@ms-lola said:

Really? We're doing this now?

Sure, why not? We're just bored and need something to talk about. :P

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deactivated-097092725

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@antithetical: Fair enough. I was annoyed at the stats trying to portray the new Thor as surpassing the old in sales, but I worked hard at staying out of the fray, haha. Stats and me don't get along, usually.

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Asgaard

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#14  Edited By Asgaard

@ms-lola said:

Really? We're doing this now?

Yes It was unnecessary, you have a point, but some articles!?!! Feminist Thor selling way more comic books than dude Thor ...

Should everyone just ignore it? Maybe... but the numbers were manipulated, TGOT issue 1 sold (110443 not 65513) and doesn't acknowledge any context... Thor Odinson is still in the book and some plots come from TGOT... is very hard not think that this person wasn't undermining the facts to sell her own story and for me it's understandable why some people want to reply to this kind of articles...

No Caption Provided

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deactivated-097092725

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@asgaard: I'm not disagreeing with you. I saw that article and rolled my eyes, but I also rolled my eyes at other articles that started to play with numbers as well in response. I find them all silly.

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antithetical

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As goes the phrase popularized by Mark Twain... "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics". lol!

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ScouterV

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@ms-lola said:

Really? We're doing this now?

Did it ever stop?Will it ever stop...?

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Asgaard

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@ms-lola said:

@asgaard: I'm not disagreeing with you. I saw that article and rolled my eyes, but I also rolled my eyes at other articles that started to play with numbers as well in response. I find them all silly.

You are right... and they are also very Toxic...

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antithetical

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And does nothing other than highlight how data can be manipulated to bolster whatever viewpoint one may support.

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killraven4334

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@ms-lola said:

@asgaard: I'm not disagreeing with you. I saw that article and rolled my eyes, but I also rolled my eyes at other articles that started to play with numbers as well in response. I find them all silly.

This thread is a response in parts to that. Thor God of Thunder was not a main Thor book. Comparing a main title Thor book to practically a large miniseries is very misleading. We should compare Thor run to Thor run. Which is what I did, and Thor from 07 beats female Thor handily in every issue that has been released so far.

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killraven4334

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@makentsu said:

@killraven4334: Very well put and I have to say I agree with you on how Stracynski's run of Thor didn't need hype to sell so well just a great story and good usage of it's characters. I also find it interesting how people will only go as back to Matt Fraction's run on Thor when comparing fem-Thor's sales to the original and go no further than that. However I also want to pint out that we have to take digital sales into consideration as well when comparing comic sales like this as to be more accurate and while I can't tell you the exact sales number I checked marvel's website and shows that all of fem-Thor's books have been selling well digitally. Now I'm not a fan of this run but I feel that is something we should take into account.

True to an extent, however since online sales where not available to the stracynksi run (if they were I certainly didn't know about them) at the time of its release I felt it was fair to exclude them.

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Why can't we compare Thor to Thor GoT?? I know you are saying that it is not a main thor book but that is just bull!! It was the main book under a different name

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#25 SC  Moderator

Most books from this era are selling poorer than books from that era, comic book industry hadn't started to feel the affects of the recession. People who want to compare one book series to another book series (Thor 2007 to Thor 2014) are guilty of similar problems as people who only want to compare one book to another (TGOT to Thor 2014) because to demonstrate a legitimate understanding of sales you have to consider and compare as much as you can taking into account all sorts of variables and being aware of which ones matter (relatively more) and why.

Also Thor God of Thunder was the main title, as was Mighty Thor, as is Superior Iron Man, Invincible Iron, in respective eras just like many superheroes whose titles have had different titles whilst being the main title. Yes the title is a variable that should be considered, yes some effort and reasoning does go into it, The Mediocre and Crappy Adventures of Pete the Arachne Kid for example is probably going to sell a lot worst than The Amazing Spider-man.

Another factor is price. Modern Thor is a whole dollar more than JMS Thor. Its not selling as well but its making more money. Hmm I wonder why no one out is pointing out that fact. That fact. That fact. ITS NOT AN OPINION, ITS FACT!What its not clear enough to you? Don't you get it? Its a fact that this current Thor series I hate, factually sucks. Since its not my opinion, I am using facts to prove a fact! By saying fact, obvious and clearly over and over obviously I am factually right, clearly! CLEARLY!! FACT FACT FACT!! Alright sarcasm of. Just you know, a tad skeptical when people use creation words. Even then though you have to consider that a lot of books today are a dollar (or more) more expensive than they were in 2007, as one of Marvel and DC's ways of coping with the recession was to increase prices on books just like a lot of non comic products increased in price.

So the reason people will make comparisons with TGOT (and thats not the only comparison they should make) is because its price is similar, the overall economic situation is closer, and something relatively rare for a comic series comparison, its the same writer. Current Thor and TGOT also has advantages over JMS Thor, not just current Thor's heavy publicity which was assisted by negativity and cynicism, but its existence in a much more savvy and technologically conscious world. Even though 2007 wasn't that long ago, Twitter had only been around for a year, Youtube had only been around for about 2 years. Social media was in its early stages, now its a thing and a tool Marvel and DC can use to push and promote stuff. Also the Disney factor is huge as well. Lots of variables.

So if someone asks you if female Thor is selling well per sales numbers. You should say… relative to what. Relative to X-Men by Chris Claremont and Jim Lee? No, that series had the most successful single comic issue ever. Pulled in numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Relative to Thor by JMS? No, that series is outselling it issue per issue. Relative to TGOT by Aaron? Mighty Thor by Fraction? Yes, generally. Usually the best comparison for how well a book is selling though is its placement with peers and number ranking. In that respect current Thor is doing well against its contemporary peers. Compared to 2007 Thor? Thor by JMS is outperforming current Thor in this sense (order), but thats a hard comparison too since JMS Thor had so many delays which - delays and its affect on sales vary. For some books it can kill momentum and be a very bad thing, but JMS Thor was of such a high quality, and a slow story anyway its hard to really know. Critically acclaimed too and also in a creative sense rebuilding the entirety of Thor's franchise from the ground up, so Marvel were unusually patient - which was a good thing, JMS Thor run laid a foundation for the Thor movie, which leads into an indirect influence on the Avengers success. Just the comic in those months wasn't producing a quick profit. Though if you someone asks you if current Thor is making more money than JMS Thor, get ready to duck…

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killraven4334

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#26  Edited By killraven4334

@sc said:

Most books from this era are selling poorer than books from that era, comic book industry hadn't started to feel the affects of the recession. People who want to compare one book series to another book series (Thor 2007 to Thor 2014) are guilty of similar problems as people who only want to compare one book to another (TGOT to Thor 2014) because to demonstrate a legitimate understanding of sales you have to consider and compare as much as you can taking into account all sorts of variables and being aware of which ones matter (relatively more) and why.

Also Thor God of Thunder was the main title, as was Mighty Thor, as is Superior Iron Man, Invincible Iron, in respective eras just like many superheroes whose titles have had different titles whilst being the main title. Yes the title is a variable that should be considered, yes some effort and reasoning does go into it, The Mediocre and Crappy Adventures of Pete the Arachne Kid for example is probably going to sell a lot worst than The Amazing Spider-man.

Another factor is price. Modern Thor is a whole dollar more than JMS Thor. Its not selling as well but its making more money. Hmm I wonder why no one out is pointing out that fact. That fact. That fact. ITS NOT AN OPINION, ITS FACT!What its not clear enough to you? Don't you get it? Its a fact that this current Thor series I hate, factually sucks. Since its not my opinion, I am using facts to prove a fact! By saying fact, obvious and clearly over and over obviously I am factually right, clearly! CLEARLY!! FACT FACT FACT!! Alright sarcasm of. Just you know, a tad skeptical when people use creation words. Even then though you have to consider that a lot of books today are a dollar (or more) more expensive than they were in 2007, as one of Marvel and DC's ways of coping with the recession was to increase prices on books just like a lot of non comic products increased in price.

So the reason people will make comparisons with TGOT (and thats not the only comparison they should make) is because its price is similar, the overall economic situation is closer, and something relatively rare for a comic series comparison, its the same writer. Current Thor and TGOT also has advantages over JMS Thor, not just current Thor's heavy publicity which was assisted by negativity and cynicism, but its existence in a much more savvy and technologically conscious world. Even though 2007 wasn't that long ago, Twitter had only been around for a year, Youtube had only been around for about 2 years. Social media was in its early stages, now its a thing and a tool Marvel and DC can use to push and promote stuff. Also the Disney factor is huge as well. Lots of variables.

So if someone asks you if female Thor is selling well per sales numbers. You should say… relative to what. Relative to X-Men by Chris Claremont and Jim Lee? No, that series had the most successful single comic issue ever. Pulled in numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Relative to Thor by JMS? No, that series is outselling it issue per issue. Relative to TGOT by Aaron? Mighty Thor by Fraction? Yes, generally. Usually the best comparison for how well a book is selling though is its placement with peers and number ranking. In that respect current Thor is doing well against its contemporary peers. Compared to 2007 Thor? Thor by JMS is outperforming current Thor in this sense (order), but thats a hard comparison too since JMS Thor had so many delays which - delays and its affect on sales vary. For some books it can kill momentum and be a very bad thing, but JMS Thor was of such a high quality, and a slow story anyway its hard to really know. Critically acclaimed too and also in a creative sense rebuilding the entirety of Thor's franchise from the ground up, so Marvel were unusually patient - which was a good thing, JMS Thor run laid a foundation for the Thor movie, which leads into an indirect influence on the Avengers success. Just the comic in those months wasn't producing a quick profit. Though if you someone asks you if current Thor is making more money than JMS Thor, get ready to duck…

adjust for inflation, and that's about all I got for the price, however, when I did the numbers, Thor v3 is still making more money, once you adjust for inflation. If you do not adjust for inflation the numbers are 1,769,548 dollars for Thor v3, and 1,801,748 dollars for Thor v4. However factoring in that 2.99 was worth 3.38 using http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=2.99&year1=2007&year2=2015 which puts Thor v3 at 2,000,256 and the clear winner both in issues sold and profitably.

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killraven4334

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#27  Edited By killraven4334
@the_jackolantern said:

Why can't we compare Thor to Thor GoT?? I know you are saying that it is not a main thor book but that is just bull!! It was the main book under a different name

For me it came down to this, when TGOT came out, some people who didn't know about the book may have gotten the impression that is was like Thor vikings. From the early issues it was never clear that it was canon and if it was where it fell into continuity since the story didn't line up with anything else going on. It was a completely new art style and writing style with the three thors and it didn't actually read like traditional thor books has. So Why compare Thor volume 4 (female) with TGOT, when you can make a much better comparison with Thor volume 3 (male)?

TGOT didn't have any of the insane hype and unrivaled publicity for a comic book that Thor v4 has received. Where as Thor v3 had the benefit of Thor being dead, being out of a solo title, and an anticipated return to confront those who had attacked his friends and stolen his genetic code.

Overall I obviously feel that Thor v4 vs Thor v3 is a better comparison.

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Asgaard

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#28  Edited By Asgaard

@sc: I already know that you have great knowledge on this subject, and it's not my intention to be rude by bringing old posts, but when we first exchange some ideas you said this: Link and i think that connects with this topic and others that we post recently:

No Caption Provided

By comichron numbers (you still can have other reliable source) JMS number 1 sold more copies than Aaron's Thor number 1...And correct me if i m wrong but when we compare the sales of different runs shouldn't we also acknowledge the number of variant covers? And that for ex. TGOT number 1 and number 2 were released in the same month along with a lot of other marvel number 1, Aaron's new Thor book number 1 had much more variant covers than TGOT, and also didn't have the kind of competition that TGOT had, and never had 2 issues released in the same month... And like you said before the View announcement had a huge impact in how marvel is selling the new Thor book for casual/female readers original Thor had consecutive stories over 50 years, something new well executed or not is always something new...So for me it's more fair compare Aaron's Thor to Straczynski Thor...

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

And even if all comic books are designed to generate high sales as possible, also no one acknowledges that the new Thor book has the incredible advantage over TGOT and the other Thor past runs, because after only 8 issues the book will stop for secret wars, if the book didn't stop Aaron couldn't focused the plot (bait) in who is she, remember Red Hulk and that sales of Hulk when he was introduced in 2008? 1# 133895 2# 93666 3# 92468 4# 90566 5# 96 296 6 #117 774... Let's see the acceptance from all the readers to the current creative decisions when we all know the identity of female Thor and Aaron has to build a new Arc from zero with her as the only protagonist, some 2 or 3 issues after secret Wars...

In my opinion is also subjective to say that "Avatar" was more profitable than "Gone with the Wind"...Fact.... inflation!?!

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The_jackolantern

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@killraven4334: I feel like the comparison should be withTGoT for the simple fact it was the Thor ongoing released before Thor V4 and it is also the story that Thor V4 is continuing from.

Plus why go all the way back to 2007 when the comic book industry was different(digi comics not being a big thing)

I'm not sure if there is a big difference in number between the TGoT and Thor V4 and I don't really like V4 so I dunno why I'm sticking up for it

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#30 SC  Moderator

@asgaard: Hello. I believe I was referring to money in that context. Though I can't remember, I may have also just mixed up the two numbers and made a mistake, thats possible too, or I looked at different sources, I use a bunch of them, . Of course we should take into account variant covers, was that not something I myself mentioned the last time we spoke? Then your next part - your wording what do you mean by "kind of competition" exactly? Every month will have different books.

Also what do you mean no one acknowledges…? Also its more complicated than comic books being designed to generate high sales. Oh and yes Red Hulk sold well and was well liked by many comic fans even if it did greatly annoy and aggravate many of the type of comic fan that posts online.

Are you also saying that audiences rejected Avatar? That more people would have watched Avatar if it was Gone with the Wind? I don't mind discussing this and don't find you rude at all, quite the opposite actually, rather cool, but I also recently saw one of CV's most hardest working staff members who pays out of his own pocket, a whole bunch of comics, in order to come to the site and write articles for us users, given a hard time over not picking New Avengers this week. Disagreement is okay, but we all benefit by being nicer to each other.

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killraven4334

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#31  Edited By killraven4334

@the_jackolantern said:

@killraven4334: I feel like the comparison should be withTGoT for the simple fact it was the Thor ongoing released before Thor V4 and it is also the story that Thor V4 is continuing from.

Plus why go all the way back to 2007 when the comic book industry was different(digi comics not being a big thing)

I'm not sure if there is a big difference in number between the TGoT and Thor V4 and I don't really like V4 so I dunno why I'm sticking up for it

If you don't see why comparing thor v3 to thor v4 is a better comparison content wise then I don't really know how to explain it to you other than this, Thor God of Thunder is not like any other Thor title ever, it was a specialty type series. It broke from standard Thor art and story telling so much that they didn't even brand it under an existing thor title, ie Thor, Mighty Thor, JITM. So comparing Thor v4 with the previous volume of the same title seems a lot more appropriate to me.

You are right, that Thor is also a much bigger draw now, do to movies, and promotions, there are a great deal more thor fans than there used to be, which reinforces the point that Thor v3 with male thor was an overall more successful than thor v4, because it was able to draw a higher number of sales out of a much smaller fan base.

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Thor vol. 3 by JMS also happened to be about, you know, Thor. The current Thor relaunch received a massive publicity push in comparison and still has Thor in the book alongside Roz Solomon Thor. Thor under JMS was the King of Asgard and literally recreated their realm out of thin air. Thor under Aaron started out as a warrior but has now degenerated into a whiner that dresses like a homeless version of Chris Hemsworth that borrowed his arm from Cable.

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Asgaard

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#33  Edited By Asgaard

@sc: Hello SC

"Of course we should take into account variant covers, was that not something I myself mentioned the last time we spoke?"

Sorry if i also didn't remember that correctly...

"Then your next part - your wording what do you mean by "kind of competition" exactly? Every month will have different books."

But when TGOT number 1 was released there were many number 1 books from marvel, readers couldn't buy them all, and that didn't happen when current Thor book number 1 was released, competition is always key factor when anyone is selling any product that's why B v S moved the "second original" release date.

"Also what do you mean no one acknowledges…? Also its more complicated than comic books being designed to generate high sales. Oh and yes Red Hulk sold well and was well liked by many comic fans even if it did greatly annoy and aggravate many of the type of comic fan that posts online".

That is true, but Hulk sales in 2008 are based in the mystery of Red's identity, so that factor has to be added to explain the sales of current Thor book.

"Are you also saying that audiences rejected Avatar? That more people would have watched Avatar if it was Gone with the Wind"?

I was only saying that inflation counts when we want to quantify how profitable was that "product"...

"I don't mind discussing this and don't find you rude at all, quite the opposite actually, rather cool, but I also recently saw one of CV's most hardest working staff members who pays out of his own pocket, a whole bunch of comics, in order to come to the site and write articles for us users, given a hard time over not picking New Avengers this week. Disagreement is okay, but we all benefit by being nicer to each other".

I didn't use any kind of offensive or disrespectful language, but sure you can say that was unfair, but i was coming from the review of the Aaron's writing on Titania that had 5 stars (last that i read), also unfair judgement? Perhaps...But you should give some kind of small credit in that topic, i just STOP my argument...normally i don't do that you know that very well, i just believe in the "words" of that staff member ( that made Titania issue review), and accept the fact that i could be wrong, and i was mentioned again and again and i didn't reply to anyone...Normally i just don't do that...But knowing how you interact with other users i understand that for you my first post in that topic was a big flaw...

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The_jackolantern

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@killraven4334: I see your point now and even if I dont 100% agree it is a valid point that needs discussing!!

Cheers for not thinking I was trolling you bro

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#35 SC  Moderator

@asgaard: Oh you mean Marvel Now? Lots of number one issues? Usually that means overall sales boosts rather than books cannibalizing themselves. Its a good point to make, but its not black and white negative or positive. Marvel Now has benefits for TGOT as well. They also had the benefit of observing DC's New 52, Marvel Now actually had a pretty lengthly release for its new issues over a few months as opposed to New 52. I imagine a lot of thought was put into that to maximize sales. Movie sales are a bit different to comic sales, people usually as in the majority probably don't go to the movies to see two in a row, where as a larger amount probably buy more than one comic in a visit or purchase. Also comparing the competition between two different companies between products, that dynamic is different as well. Basically its more complicated but talking about every aspect of why and how sales happen would be like a giant novel.

I don't think we can conclude that Hulks sales from that era were based on the mystery of Red Hulks identity. A part? Yes, but I am not sure how we could establish why people were buying those issues. Book had a lot of cameos as well, popular writer and artist. Would be award thing to gauge. Inflation is a variable yes, I agree.

Positing that staff, actual individuals with their own lives, opinions, views, aren't sincere or genuine because by default they find somethings uninteresting… well yes its unfair, imagine if people insisted that you gad an agenda and were sincere or genuine? That you had a default reaction that wasn't actually true to how you felt or what you did? Gregg use to be a CV user like you and I, why leave such a comment when you could have just posted that you personally felt that New Avengers was the best comic for fights this week? Why imply others have an agenda? Or aren't as discerning as you.

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Asgaard

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@sc: Yes marvel now, i really think that the release of Thor, Hulk, Cap and Iron Man issue #1 in the same month, was cannibalism for marvel comics, besides TGOT issue 1# and 2# were released in that same month "November 2012", probably if marvel only released one issue in that month instead of two, TGOT issue #1 sales rise...And i m just saying that Like Rulk female Thor unknown identity is also part of the of the justification for the numbers of the current sales.

Ok...but you know the writer of that best fights in comics article, i only knew him from the review of Aaron's new book issue 4 and 5, and i didn't think that the justifications for issue 5 great review were accurate with what i just read in that issue, and lately i read a lot of non accurate articles connected with Aaron and female Thor, even in the reputable site comicbookresources, Jonathan Hickman Avengers and new Avengers books are the foundations of secret wars thought that all the comicvine staff was reading this books in the release day...I already believed in k4tzm4n sincerity that's why i stop my argument, and now even more after your words, everything you just said is valid, my first post in that article was unnecessary but when i made it i didn't have all this information, but yes in the end is just another mistake...

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#37 SC  Moderator

@asgaard: What do you mean by cannibalism out of curiosity? Is it the same as what I mean? Double issues in a month can be an advantage or disadvantage, what basis do you have to think here it was a negative with TGOT? Oh well in that case I agree, it is a variable as far as reasons for sales. The mystery. TGOT had some mystery too, as did Thor 2007. A lot of books do.

I don't actually know the writer of Best Battles that well. I know him well enough to respect him. I have probably read more of your posts than theirs though heh heh. Battles isn't something I really care for, where as I am a Thor fans and you post in Thor forums a fair bit. Inaccurate in a different opinions/interpretations sort of inaccurate or inaccurate in a factually untrue type of inaccurate? CV staff probably do read New Avengers and Avengers, but probably not on the day they are released, Katz probably prioritizes the comics that he uses for articles, often prioritizing the ones that are recommended to him (there is an entire thread devoted to users telling him what comics have good fights) - I love comics, but I also personally get like 10 every week, minimum and on some series, even my favorites I am months behind. Reading a comic and then making an article about on it on the same day… I feel tired just thinking about how much rushing around I would have to do heh heh.

Is it possible that you have strong feelings and just get frustrated? What you did by the way was very honorable and upstanding, with what you said to K4tz. Not many people are willing to try and clear the air. Good sign of character! ^_^. By the way I am really excited about reading New Avengers now, its actually the only series that I am up to date with aside from the newest issue heh heh. I really enjoy the Thor and Hyperion friendship especially. Hope you have a great week!

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AtheistKnowledge

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#38  Edited By AtheistKnowledge

Because female Thor is selling on a gimmick and because it's currently mainstream... whenever something get's some kind of a publicity stunt it will always warrant more popularity. If you look at JMS run it brought in constant numbers. Female Thor's title on the other hand lost half it's readers in the second issue... It's not hard for so many people that are not even comic book fans but are SJW supporters and SJW's themselves to throw 4 dollars every month just to "stick it to the man". I doubt a great number of them even read the book at all... just glance at the pretty artwork.

I am thinking off making a thread once female Thor run reaches it's end to see objective opinions of which Aarons run was better. His previous TGOT run or his female Thor run. Because despite female Thor outselling his previous run i don't see how it's in any way better. But maybe the inner patriarchy has clouded my mind so hopefully female Thor fans can clue me in on what makes the book so great apart from the fact that a phallic symbol is wielded by a vagina.

P.S. an unknown vagina.

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Asgaard

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@sc: in this subject i m applying cannibalism because the 4 main avengers appeal in some extend to the same kind of audience, not the same but similar if you sell Cyclops 1, Jean 1 and Gambit 1 in the same month, i m more interested to read about Gods (another reason to dislike the current run), but if i was a marvel fan i couldn't possibly buy all marvel now different titles issue #1 released in October of 2012... When you have so much books to buy in the same month probably many readers will pick Thor 1 and Hulk 1 instead of TGOT issue 1 and 2, just my opinion, not based in any study, one thing is add mystery to the plot, other is center the plot on the mystery like Aaron is doing with her identity...

I also dislike battles topics, (very very very subjective and pointless in my opinion) but new Avengers 32 wasn't only about the battle, was about what really means to be an Asgardian God and an Honorable Warrior, i miss that writing from TGOT, and Thor and Hyperion "bromance" was awesome during the battle, i already said that, but Jonathan Hickman writing Thor yesterday was a dream come true, yes i was frustrated in first place, but i also make a lot of unnecessary assumptions, even when i was reading Aaron's current writing (still dislike the execution and plot without any assumption) even if i really appreciate your and K4tz words after my initial mistake, that mistake isn't erased, there isn't much more than i can say, besides that i will think 10 (current number of realms) times, before post in topics that i strongly disagree, and that i will never post again like i did in that battles of the week topic... I also hope you have a phenomenal week!!!

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#40 SC  Moderator

@asgaard: So if that is based on your opinions, and its a well thought out opinion, but if you were a stockholder with financial money invested in Marvel… would you take your opinion over the opinions of people who work at Marvel and who job it is to maximize profits? Not to suggest they can't be wrong, but are you suggesting they sabotaged TGOT sales? Also all books drop dramatically from issue one, so… is your point that some people didn't pick up issue one because they knew they wouldn't get issue two?

How many comics do you read a week? Elektra for example has been an amazing series, her recent issue essentially capitalizes on over 30 plus years of story as well as having a fight. I haven't read New Avengers or any of the weeks comics but there are a lot of them, sometimes good comic Battles will miss out on being featured, especially if they are not recommended. Oh heh heh you should post in the threads you wish to, but look at it this way? You read New Avengers before I did? It wouldn't be fair for me to take issue with you or other Thor fans for not posting in the recommendation thread? Another way I look at all this, is most of the comics i read are indie books that never get featured on the site at all. Or are talked about by other comic fans either. I can't expect other people to like the same things as me.

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Asgaard

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#41  Edited By Asgaard

@sc:

Sabotaged!? No ... My point is that every Issue #1 is always collectible and a new direction for the story or the character, i think that Aaron's new Thor book issue #1 had the advantage to be released in a period where didn't face other marvel characters issue #1, like TGOT issue #1 and #2 did in 2012. Marvel comics is very far from being perfect...

Since 2007 (JMS) that i read everything connected with Asgard from marvel like the recent and awesome Sif in JIM to the poor Fearless Defenders with Valkyrie, i also read almost everything back to Walt Simonson run connect with Thor, randomly before the new 52 i read Dc Wonder Woman and Hawkman and other books that are not from Dc or Marvel like God is Dead and currently Walt Simonson Ragnarok (that is awesome)... but i m not reading much comics in present days after quitting on Aaron's book... my present comics list is...

Loki Agent of Asgard Marvel

Angela Asgard's Assassin Marvel

Avengers and New Avengers (time runs out) marvel

Ragnarok (IDW)

Dark Gods (Avatar Press) Probably will quit like God is Dead

SC you are right even if K4tz said that battle should be there if he read that book before made that topic, i totally agree with you, i read very few comics compared with comicvine staff members, i was wrong in that post, and when i said that i will think 10 times before post in topics that i strongly disagree, it's more about the contend of the post...

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#42 SC  Moderator

@asgaard: Okay… so why do think did a company with millions of dollars at stake, decided to release number one issues in close proximity to each other? What basis do you have to suggest that the negative aspects of issues being released in proximity, specifically with Marvel Now outweigh the positive? Your point doesn't take place in a vacuum, it needs to weigh up against other points, have you considered all those other points? I looked around at various numbers from various months initiatives like Marvel Now lead to boosted overall sales, which means if there was any cannibalizing going on, it was from a greater pool of customers - which is another way of saying that more people overall were buying more than usual, which could not only possibly cancel out the negatives from being surrounded by other number one issues, but compensated for positively. We can do this by comparing the differences between months that aren't apart of Marvel Now or DC New 52, and months that are and aren't. Marvel are very far by being perfect, but is that a claim that you and your business knowledge is perfect?

Thats a great list, but limited, so imagine all the people who read every single comic each week potentially telling you that you are missing out on a great comic fight in a comic you haven't read? I mean I know you understand now so I do not mean to beat a horse heh heh but yeah and well personally thats what I do - I usually think about ten times before I post - doesn't help my posts get smaller though unfortunately heh heh.

Oh and and I finally did get to catch up all the way to New Avengers 32! It was awesome, I love Thor's friendship with Hyperion, I wish comics went that route more. Now I have to go catch up on Thor, Angela and Loki (well hopefully, am a bit tired)

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vance_astro

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#43 vance_astro  Moderator

She's not Thor.

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Asgaard

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#44  Edited By Asgaard

@sc: The argument that if Marvel did it that way, then was by default the best decision, also has problems, but In the end you are right i can't prove my argument because it's just based on my personal opinion, but in my perspective, one of the reasons why TGOT issue 1 didn't perform so well like new Thor book issue 1 was competition, but like you already said before, the twitter and you tube are some other reasons, but the main reason was the the view announcement and the main stream attention, and the new Thor book keeps the sales high not because the writing quality like JMS or TGOT first Arcs, but because Marvel and Aaron keep feeding that controversy generated after the first announcement, even in the current writing with the Titania and Absorbing Man stuff...

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I also think you were absolutely right when you said in other topic that when the reaction is so negative creates antibodies in the supporters, this was also planned by marvel comics, now some of the supporters buy the book not for the story quality, the simple fact that female Thor is popular for some readers just because she is female tells the all story, because her identity still wasn't revealed and she hadn't much character development to make the reader really care for her, by Thor 700 or the Ragnarok movie Thor Odinson will be wielding Mjolnir again and Marvel will have a double win, that future sales also will be good and the story will not matter again, because who dislikes the current creative decisions will buy it no matter what, in the end the recent marvel moves were only lost time to readers like me that just like to read a good story about Gods and Asgard, i really don't see any reason why the Female Thor story justified the end of TGOT, (besides sales) the present marvel editorial setup portrayed in this Tom Brevoort comment will ruin comics creative decisions, not my intention to read Thor again with Aaron writing it...

Very glad that like me you also enjoy New Avengers 32... Hope that bromance could continue during Secret Wars, and at the moment i wouldn't mind that both die during secret wars with even more Valhallan glory, for me at the moment Thor is better dead that how he is being portrayed in Aaron's new book, I love Gillen current writing on Angela Asgard's Assassin, would be awesome that you also could read it and post your thoughts (as Thor long time Fan) in her book discussion thread...This book really has that Journey into Mystery vibe where Marvel Thor comics born.

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ariesxmasters

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I actually like her, and plan to continue following her. She is also selling 30% higher than male Thor was previously.

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Asgaard

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#46  Edited By Asgaard

@ariesxmasters said:

I actually like her, and plan to continue following her. She is also selling 30% higher than male Thor was previously.

How can you know that? Ins't Thor Odinson still in the new book!? There are readers still reading the new book only for him, only when she is on her own we can compare her book with the sales of TGOT, where the story was only about Thor Odinson, the current Arc is far from being only about her...

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Transformers1024

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Or maybe it's not selling because it's not very good.

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antithetical

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@asgaard said:

@ariesxmasters said:

I actually like her, and plan to continue following her. She is also selling 30% higher than male Thor was previously.

How can you know that? Ins't Thor Odinson still in the new book!? There are readers still reading the new book only for him, only when she is on her own we can compare her book with the sales of TGOT, where the story was only about Thor Odinson, the current Arc is far from being only about her...

Exactly, to say it's all female Thor responsible for the increased sales is ludicrous at best. I'd say those numbers would be substantially lower if she were the sole focus, but we'll never know for certain since she's being propped up by a supporting cast with a long standing fanbase.

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ariesxmasters

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@asgaard said:

@ariesxmasters said:

I actually like her, and plan to continue following her. She is also selling 30% higher than male Thor was previously.

How can you know that? Ins't Thor Odinson still in the new book!? There are readers still reading the new book only for him, only when she is on her own we can compare her book with the sales of TGOT, where the story was only about Thor Odinson, the current Arc is far from being only about her...

Exactly, to say it's all female Thor responsible for the increased sales is ludicrous at best. I'd say those numbers would be substantially lower if she were the sole focus, but we'll never know for certain since she's being propped up by a supporting cast with a long standing fanbase.

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Asgaard

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#50  Edited By Asgaard

@ariesxmasters said:

@antithetical said:

@asgaard said:

@ariesxmasters said:

I actually like her, and plan to continue following her. She is also selling 30% higher than male Thor was previously.

How can you know that? Ins't Thor Odinson still in the new book!? There are readers still reading the new book only for him, only when she is on her own we can compare her book with the sales of TGOT, where the story was only about Thor Odinson, the current Arc is far from being only about her...

Exactly, to say it's all female Thor responsible for the increased sales is ludicrous at best. I'd say those numbers would be substantially lower if she were the sole focus, but we'll never know for certain since she's being propped up by a supporting cast with a long standing fanbase.

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Is that your argument!? A random article print screen!? I already saw more than 3 articles that don't have the accurate data or don't acknowledge the fact that the Original Thor still is in the new the book, they just don't know anything about comic sales, again the current Arcs are not only about her, the whisper?

Thor God of Thunder story was only about Thor Odinson the current story isn't only about her...Pretty normal that after 50 years of stories focused on the original Thor, a new run with a new character wielding Mjolnir and with the original Thor still around would have better sales that the previous run, if not what was the point of that pr stunt and that view announcement? That sentence that Female Thor comics are outselling old male version by 30% is just ridiculous... the present run is not Thor best seller didn't you read the O.P.?

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