So why is Thor slow combat wise?

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Wolfrazer

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#1  Edited By Wolfrazer

In combat speed/reaction? Forgive me if I missed something, but that is what I see around the Vine in regards to him and BRB. It just seems odd to me really, that they have all this power yet their combat speed/reaction is slow?...Or has it changed? Or am I just looking at it wrong?

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New_World_Order

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He just doesn't have any feats, he's not necessarily slow. Although some characters have called him slow over the years.

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Wolverine008

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Marvel is just plain terrible at showing their powerhouses combat speed. It makes no sense to me why Thor should be as slow as he is portrayed.

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Lvenger

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Because when street levellers can chump Thor including a guy who couldn't tag Spider-Man, that's definite evidence he's not a fast combatant. It makes sense given his brutish, brawling combat style.

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THORSON

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THOR has owned without speed.

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Wolfrazer

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@mitran: Not saying he should have super speed, I was speaking in terms of combat reflex/speed.

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Wolfrazer

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#10  Edited By Wolfrazer

@mitran: I guess...but he should have SOMETHING at the very least. Not saying nano-second reaction though.

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Fallschirmjager

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Probably because comic book writers don't care about us nerds arguing about hypothetical Superhero vs Superhero battles

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The_Lunact_And_Manic

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@fallschirmjager said:

Probably because comic book writers don't care about us nerds arguing about hypothetical Superhero vs Superhero battles

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SOG7dc

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Lvenger

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Probably because comic book writers don't care about us nerds arguing about hypothetical Superhero vs Superhero battles

Oh and this. Lots of writers aren't thinking about the specific parameters of what the character they're writing can do. As long as they get a general depiction of their powers correct without going into PIS territory, they probably don't think much on what the characters they're writing can specifically do.

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SC

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#15  Edited By SC  Moderator

He isn't really slow, its really more that he is inconsistent. Speed isn't really a defining aspect of the character, and as such its rarely demonstrated as an advantage or as something that you can exploit about the character. This is why when Thor fights Silver Surfer, Superman, Gladiator, Sentry, Hulk, Hercules, Wolverine, Juggernaut, Mongoose, so on he is written a bit different each time. Being aware that he is a character we can know why this is. Pretending the character is real and has set concrete attributes we can measure objectively by virtue of feats is an entirely different matter.

One story for example often mentioned a lot is the one where Wolverine and Thor have a small scuffle, and Thor mentions something about Wolverines speed. The writer Frank Tieri was basically putting the two characters together for a story because Wolverine had yet to have an iconic encounter with Thor but he has with virtually every other Marvel character. That and Thor had a movie coming out - the main point being here is that if Frank Tieri was given an opportunity to write a Wolverine vs Superman, Wolverine vs Wonder Woman, Wolverine vs Flash does anyone with a good understanding of comics industry and knowledge of these characters really sincerely expect that those encounters will go down like people imagine it would in Battles? No not likely. A. Thats never how fiction or science has worked. B. Chances are that the or a writer will try to balance the characters abilities, powers and personalities to make the story work and its highly likely that that story will be inconsistent of contradict dozens of other stories.

As for why Thor is especially inconsistent speed wise? Not many of his peers are that fast. Chances are a majority of DC characters for example are fast in order to keep up with Flash. Then Superman as well. Has a flow on effect. Quicksilver has never been that fast nor as durable as Flash, and characters like Silver Surfer and Gladiator are in space a lot. Speed in comics is also a big jar of problems as far as suspension of disbelief goes. Its hard to depict, its usually used inconsistently and a lot of writers don't really consider the ramifications of characters abilities when writing them. Recently in an Avengers OGN Ms Marvel or Iron Man explained that Thor had been tracked at Mach 32 but they might beat him getting to a destination in a Quinjet because his line was bad, and they could go another route, but that the Quinjet would be screwed up after. I know thats travel speed, not what you asked for, but similar point as far as if Thor is as strong as Hulk, and the (one of) most durable Avenger, has fighting/warrior skill and can fly and has a weapon and can call thunder down - err... can out race the Quinjet even? What's the point of the rest of the team really? The first thing an Avengers writer can forget about in regards to Thor is thus things like reaction speed. No one will really care or notice its gone. Though... if DC brought Marvels Thor, naturally he'd be written to be competitive with Superman, Flash, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, qualities like speed included, and so on. So its really ultimately about context. The same can be applied to most comic book characters in some context or another.

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HaveAtThee

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Because back in the day he was written by Lee, Thomas, and Simonson. These days it's by Bendis and Fraction. Thankfully Aaron has really turned things around. Marvel editorial really don't give a damn about consistency of attributes. The rule of thumb is "whatever fits the plot at the time." It's why a chump like Wolverine can punch Thor and essentially knock him out of his chair (forget the issue, the one where Logan is whining about losing his healing factor).

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Fifthchild

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Thor isn't slow combat wise - he just doesnt have Superman style superspeed. Which is fairly common at DC (though not universal). He can travel very, very fast. Otherwise his speed will be played up or down in fights (has been said to be fast against Hulk at least once, slow against people like Logan) but its generally around the normal range or perhaps the "normal superhuman" range.

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green_skaar

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Combat speed just isn't as important in Marvel as it is in DC. Combat skill plays a role, however nearly everyone can hit everyone else in Marvel. Different universes really.

Reminds me of the myth that Hulk is slow. I've read my fair share of Hulk comics and never once thought he was slow. In fact his speed is commented on several times to being remarkably quick. The only time I heard he was "slow" was on this board. I think it comes from DC comics where Flash exists and acts as a universal speed barometer.

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Wolverine008

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#19  Edited By Wolverine008

Combat speed just isn't as important in Marvel as it is in DC. Combat skill plays a role, however nearly everyone can hit everyone else in Marvel. Different universes really.

Reminds me of the myth that Hulk is slow. I've read my fair share of Hulk comics and never once thought he was slow. In fact his speed is commented on several times to being remarkably quick. The only time I heard he was "slow" was on this board. I think it comes from DC comics where Flash exists and acts as a universal speed barometer.

Quoted for the truth. I think the big difference in the importance Marvel and DC put on combat speed should be a sign that we can't have an outlook that favors one universe. We need an outlook that is just right in the middle. A balanced outlook.

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dum529001

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Thor isn't slow combat wise - he just doesnt have Superman style superspeed. Which is fairly common at DC (though not universal). He can travel very, very fast. Otherwise his speed will be played up or down in fights (has been said to be fast against Hulk at least once, slow against people like Logan) but its generally around the normal range or perhaps the "normal superhuman" range.

Combat speed just isn't as important in Marvel as it is in DC. Combat skill plays a role, however nearly everyone can hit everyone else in Marvel. Different universes really.

Reminds me of the myth that Hulk is slow. I've read my fair share of Hulk comics and never once thought he was slow. In fact his speed is commented on several times to being remarkably quick. The only time I heard he was "slow" was on this board. I think it comes from DC comics where Flash exists and acts as a universal speed barometer.

True.

Also, combat-speed isn't mentioned as often as peope like to think in Marvel and DC comics. It really depends on the story and who is involved in the fight taking place. The exact speed of a character is not commmented on constantly. Most of the time, the great speed of a character is merely implied due to the tremendous forces being put out with relatively small mass.

Comics can beat bit inconsistent somtimes for the sake of a story. People on the battel boars seem to forget this.

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Thurdazz1313

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I totally agree most of the time its about the story, There are just as many instances of Thor having amazing reaction timing as him being slow, as far as Mongoose who everyone brings up as an example, His powers were enhanced by the High evolutionary to specifically fight Thor, & he couldn't hit spider because his reactions (at the time) were tied to his spider sense(but not anymore)more inconsistent powers , Still love the character but I've been reading Thor along time & sometimes the crazy extreme shifts in his abilities drive me insane

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phisigmatau

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#22  Edited By phisigmatau

I totally agree most of the time its about the story, There are just as many instances of Thor having amazing reaction timing as him being slow, as far as Mongoose who everyone brings up as an example, His powers were enhanced by the High evolutionary to specifically fight Thor, & he couldn't hit spider because his reactions (at the time) were tied to his spider sense(but not anymore)more inconsistent powers , Still love the character but I've been reading Thor along time & sometimes the crazy extreme shifts in his abilities drive me insane

ridiculous. I agree.

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Thurdazz1313

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#23  Edited By Thurdazz1313
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Thought I would post These, The Hulks not slow either

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No Caption Provided

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themadsurfer

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Slow compared to Superman's consistence you mean, right???

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themadsurfer

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#25  Edited By themadsurfer

Suddenly everybody forgets about Thor High showings, like a microsecond and millisecond reflexes.

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HaveAtThee

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This is the bazillionth thread about Thor's combat/reaction speed. How about condensing them all into a "Official Speed of Thor" thread.

Besides, it's up to a creative writer to present situations to highlight Thor's super speed. Only modern moronic writers with zero creativity resort to idiotic plot-devices to show Thor being slower than Wolverine or Spider-Man because they are more popular.

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TheGodofThunder

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#27  Edited By TheGodofThunder

Speed has never really mattered in the Marvel universe like it does in DC. Thor is going to fight according to whoever he is fighting.

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SOG7dc

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He isn't slow in general but he is slow compared to some of the characters he's matched up against in the battle forum

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AgentofChaos1

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SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

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Divell

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With Mjolnirg he is really fast, don't remember if Loki or sombody else but he says that Thor moves as fast as the lighning he comand. Thor is always holding back, as he don't want to kill anyone during his fight.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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He's not

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HaveAtThee

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Why are there so many speed-related topics? Can the mods merge them?

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isaac_clarke

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Why are there so many speed-related topics? Can the mods merge them?

Because trolls have bumped these years / months + old threads to troll Thor fans. That and mods don't seem to give a damn about trolls anymore.

Though in hindsight it rather revealing of select users:

@lvenger said:

Because when street levellers can chump Thor including a guy who couldn't tag Spider-Man, that's definite evidence he's not a fast combatant. It makes sense given his brutish, brawling combat style.

I get you're a supposed Thor fan but look at your arguments:

  • Masterson got blitzed by Spider-Man. (NOT THOR)
  • Masterson got owned by a training exercise. (NOT THOR)
  • Mongoose drugged Thor. (INCAPACITATED THOR) Otherwise Thor started swinging wildly and made him run away.

Even in Wolverine vs Thor - Thor still is grappling and reacting to Wolverine without issue. Then we have books where Wolverine flat out, despite his supposed awesome speeds, can't dodge Thor in Uncanny Avengers when his healing factor was turned off. But that's the nature of crossovers; when not the title character (or you're sharing it) Batman on venom can magically tag Clark without issue and make him bleed or Oc-Spider-Man with the Symbiote can apparently own the Avengers (Thor included!).

Outside the 'slow as clouds' guy the pickings are slim for Thor being slow. He's pulls off all those similar hypersonic street level feats, regularly goes toe to toe with extremely fast characters (DS just to disorient Thor blitzed him at INSANE FTL speeds) and doesn't have much issues handling multiple opponents at the same time. The only difference between Captain America and Thor is - Thor pulling this stuff off comes off as somewhat realistic given his stats / showings.

BUT - I feel as if my words are wasted. You have this whole different assortment of beliefs in regards to Thor - and to debate a belief tends to waste air. It becomes a debate where 'Thor knocked Iron-Man's repulsors (or the Silver Surfers, the Destroyers, Phoenix & <insert blank energy blast> or bats away bullets casually isn't indicative of his speed because those showings are apparently inconsistent with what Masterson did or that time a drugged out Thor couldn't hit Mongoose.

What's the point?

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antithetical

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#35  Edited By antithetical

@isaac_clarke: QFT, gotten to where I pretty much ignore new comments in any speed/strength/etc... topics since about 99% of the time it's haters whose sole purpose is to troll and antagonize Thor fans.

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NeonGameWave

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He lacks feats in the speed department but it`s not because he is outright slow it`s also because he seems very slow when contrasted against certain characters especially on a consistent basis this brings down his reputation.

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flashback0180

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Because marvel likes him to job

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Spiderman1997

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@neongamewave: Hey, stop right there. You don't even begin to comprehend the power of street levelers and their pressure point attacks. What Thor is faster than lightning or can tag Gladiator going FTL ? Good for you slow poke Spiderman and Wolverine would still wreck your s@#$. What he can tank supernovas ? Well f you those pressure points are solar system busting. I think you've understood why he is so slow.

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MasterKungFu

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who knows what writers are doing with him these days

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CRAZYMADMAN90

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Thor is too slow and a worthless character

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Stahlflamme

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People on the battleforum were salty he was winning all the time so they made it up.

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Biggest_D

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Define speed first.

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Mexicutioner

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Thor is as slow as the plot/writer wants plus being in a team like the Avengers most of his career he has to be massively depowered to make lower tier/street level characters seem useful

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Gunada

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People on the battleforum were salty he was winning all the time so they made it up.

Is this true? lol

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Stahlflamme

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@gunada said:
@stahlflamme said:

People on the battleforum were salty he was winning all the time so they made it up.

Is this true? lol

Don't know, but I've seen a lot of speed feats for Thor a lot of people telling me he is slow and not a lot of arguments against thor that didn't boil down to he is slow, when put against characters with secondary superspeed like Superman.

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uugieboogie

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@sc said:

He isn't really slow, its really more that he is inconsistent. Speed isn't really a defining aspect of the character, and as such its rarely demonstrated as an advantage or as something that you can exploit about the character. This is why when Thor fights Silver Surfer, Superman, Gladiator, Sentry, Hulk, Hercules, Wolverine, Juggernaut, Mongoose, so on he is written a bit different each time. Being aware that he is a character we can know why this is. Pretending the character is real and has set concrete attributes we can measure objectively by virtue of feats is an entirely different matter.

One story for example often mentioned a lot is the one where Wolverine and Thor have a small scuffle, and Thor mentions something about Wolverines speed. The writer Frank Tieri was basically putting the two characters together for a story because Wolverine had yet to have an iconic encounter with Thor but he has with virtually every other Marvel character. That and Thor had a movie coming out - the main point being here is that if Frank Tieri was given an opportunity to write a Wolverine vs Superman, Wolverine vs Wonder Woman, Wolverine vs Flash does anyone with a good understanding of comics industry and knowledge of these characters really sincerely expect that those encounters will go down like people imagine it would in Battles? No not likely. A. Thats never how fiction or science has worked. B. Chances are that the or a writer will try to balance the characters abilities, powers and personalities to make the story work and its highly likely that that story will be inconsistent of contradict dozens of other stories.

As for why Thor is especially inconsistent speed wise? Not many of his peers are that fast. Chances are a majority of DC characters for example are fast in order to keep up with Flash. Then Superman as well. Has a flow on effect. Quicksilver has never been that fast nor as durable as Flash, and characters like Silver Surfer and Gladiator are in space a lot. Speed in comics is also a big jar of problems as far as suspension of disbelief goes. Its hard to depict, its usually used inconsistently and a lot of writers don't really consider the ramifications of characters abilities when writing them. Recently in an Avengers OGN Ms Marvel or Iron Man explained that Thor had been tracked at Mach 32 but they might beat him getting to a destination in a Quinjet because his line was bad, and they could go another route, but that the Quinjet would be screwed up after. I know thats travel speed, not what you asked for, but similar point as far as if Thor is as strong as Hulk, and the (one of) most durable Avenger, has fighting/warrior skill and can fly and has a weapon and can call thunder down - err... can out race the Quinjet even? What's the point of the rest of the team really? The first thing an Avengers writer can forget about in regards to Thor is thus things like reaction speed. No one will really care or notice its gone. Though... if DC brought Marvels Thor, naturally he'd be written to be competitive with Superman, Flash, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, qualities like speed included, and so on. So its really ultimately about context. The same can be applied to most comic book characters in some context or another.

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Lvenger

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He was cursed with Asgardian arthritis to be slow in body and reflexes, and from henceforth in matters of speed and swiftness, Thor Odinson was dubbed the 'Slowdinson.'

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Thor-Parker

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People on the battleforum were salty he was winning all the time so they made it up.

Lol, basically this, when I first joined CV this "slowdinson" was not a problem, or at least not as common as it is now.